by Trivum
228 replies
Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

If so, how bad does it have to be?
#bad #grammar
  • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
    Yes.

    Yes.

    It depends what they're selling. If it's a small, home business in Bangladesh, selling home made jewelry, I'd forgive them. If it's someone selling an information product in the English language or performing a task where I need my instructions to be understood, not a chance in hell will I buy.
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  • Profile picture of the author DWaters
    I am generally turned off by bad grammar as well. I does depend on the type of site I am looking at as well as how professional it seems to be. If it is a real nice site with some bad grammar that can be forgiven.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tony Marriott
      Short answer is YES

      How bad? not very to TBH.

      The problem is that these things (if it is your natural language) stick out like a sore thumb.

      People like to judge and as the sales letter may be all they see then any issues in it will reflect directly on the product or on the vendor.

      It's like scruffy writing on a CV (yea i know they are all typed these days). It will generally reflect on the individual. An assumption that the writing shows what the owner is like.

      If a vendor is careless on a sales page will he be any more careful in creating the product.

      If he can't be bothered to spell check the copy will he be bothered to answer your support calls.

      You may not think that out load but down at a subconscious level it that kind of comparison that is going on.

      (he said trying to check any typos in the post)

      As said above there would be some "leniency" depending on the product and the situation but all else being equal you are more likely to have confidence in well written, correctly spelled, well laid out sales copy than one that looks like it was put together by a 5 year old
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      • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
        It depends on the information provided. If the site gives me something nobody else does in some way and the information is important to me, I will overlook grammar problems.

        And I live it from the other side too. Not all my written material is perfect when I write for myself (everything I ever did for others went through an editor). It has never been an issue. My niche is special though.
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        • Profile picture of the author quatrostream
          Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

          It depends on the information provided. If the site gives me something nobody else does in some way and the information is important to me, I will overlook grammar problems.

          And I live it from the other side too. Not all my written material is perfect when I write for myself (everything I ever did for others went through an editor). It has never been an issue. My niche is special though.
          Totally agree with you!
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  • Profile picture of the author cindytsmile
    Bad grammar does affect my opinion of a site. If a business is careless about their online presentation, what other aspects of business will they be careless about?

    I believe I have clicked away and not made a purchase due to spelling and grammar issues.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?
    It depends on the context. If it's supposed to be an English-speaking site for English-speaking visitors, then it does lose some credibility with me, if it contains obvious grammatical errors.

    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?
    Yes, it might, though there could be circumstances in which I'd choose to ignore it.

    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    This varies, depending on my mood, what I'm looking for, and other factors. I happen to visit a lot of writers' and publishers' websites, and I do expect those to be grammatically correct.

    I'm probably more tolerant of grammatical errors on the web now than I used to be a couple of years ago. My overall expectations are lower.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Joyce
    I think bad grammar is too commonplace and does present a negative image for a web site. If the author really cared, why would they not avail themselves of a simple grammar check before publishing?

    I think it shows laziness and a lack of respect.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    Yes! Yes! Very much so.
    I have just written a free report on this very topic which I am giving away on my site too. I am often called the "Grammar Police" because I find the mistakes others miss.

    I shut down pdfs that are full of errors because I can't keep reading.

    Maybe I miss out on good information but if somebody isn't caring enough to fix mistakes, what else don't they care about?
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    Website / Blog for more info.

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    • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
      Yes! Yes! Very much so.
      I have just written a free report on this very topic which I am giving away on my site too. I am often called the "Grammar Police" because I find the mistakes others miss.

      I shut down pdfs that are full of errors because I can't keep reading.

      Maybe I miss out on good information but if somebody isn't caring enough to fix mistakes, what else don't they care about?
      It's either '...very topic, which...' or '...very topic that...'.

      I don't think anybody is saying that people who can't spell aren't smart. I know I never say that. I have clients who are dyslexic and that is why they use me. They are smart but because of that problem, their writing is bad.

      What irks me is people that write and claim they can do a great job and yet the material they produce is pathetic. I am sure others would agree with me on this point.
      It's '...people who...'.

      I love these threads...
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      • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
        Originally Posted by BackLinkiT View Post

        It's either '...very topic, which...' or '...very topic that...'.


        It's '...people who...'.

        I love these threads...
        Does that make me a wombat or am I 'wombatting' a wombat?

        Please help!

        My lunch hours just fly by...
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  • Profile picture of the author Devin X
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    Absolutely.

    Without a doubt.

    I'm not so bad that if I see one or two mistakes, I'm going to freak out. But, if I see careless mistakes on a person's website and get the feeling that they are 1) not too bright, or 2) being really careless with their sales copy, then I will absolutely avoid them.
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    • Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

      Absolutely.

      Without a doubt.

      I'm not so bad that if I see one or two mistakes, I'm going to freak out. But, if I see careless mistakes on a person's website and get the feeling that they are 1) not too bright, or 2) being really careless with their sales copy, then I will absolutely avoid them.
      it's not true, it does for some and not for others. My grammer and selling sucks and I have made sales just less then I could so there are people who don't care so the real truth is that some people care about content not grammer.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    I know some excellent designers and artists from China.

    When they write an email, a blog post, or a sales page, I have to read it three or four times to understand it.

    I still buy their work, because it's excellent.

    However, I would not hire them to write for me, and I would rather drink bleach than read an entire ebook they wrote.

    I know a lot of people who are terrible writers but very good at what they do. I've worked for managers who can't spell for crap, but know how to write one hell of a presentation. If one of them did a course on how to build a presentation, do you think I really care about spelling and grammar? If the core advice is "select images relevant to the current subject," am I somehow getting less value if it says "select imges revelent to the current sujbect" instead? Granted, maybe he should drop down to his natural level and say "use pictures of what you talk about" instead, but all I really care about is whether I get the message.

    Way too many people equate skill in writing to skill in everything. There are a lot of very smart people out there who can't write for squat.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      I've worked for managers who can't spell for crap, but know how to write one hell of a presentation. If one of them did a course on how to build a presentation, do you think I really care about spelling and grammar?
      I hear you and I agree with you, but this is a slightly different question, I think?

      If one of them (whom you didn't know) put up a website to promote a course on how to build a presentation, would you be less interested if there were grammatical mistakes on the site? This is the question, isn't it?

      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Way too many people equate skill in writing to skill in everything. There are a lot of very smart people out there who can't write for squat.
      Yes, I agree. But it's easy with someone you know has the other skills. What about how you react to what's written on their website when you don't know that? I'm only asking ... :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    I don't think anybody is saying that people who can't spell aren't smart. I know I never say that. I have clients who are dyslexic and that is why they use me. They are smart but because of that problem, their writing is bad.

    What irks me is people that write and claim they can do a great job and yet the material they produce is pathetic. I am sure others would agree with me on this point.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by laurencewins View Post

      What irks me is people that write and claim they can do a great job and yet the material they produce is pathetic.
      They've undoubtedly been told their whole lives what great writers they are... by people who are worse at it.

      Pretty much any skill at all makes you a dancing bear in the unskilled labour communities. You drew a picture? You're a great artist. Wrote a poem? You're a great writer. Played three chords on a guitar? You're a great musician. It's not that you danced well, but that you danced at all.

      To these people, "great" means "better than I could do." And what they could do is not a whole hell of a lot.

      That doesn't mean you should pretend they really are great and buy their crap anyway, but how constructive your criticism is makes a difference.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author csurv
        Bad grammar on a website is a HUGE turnoff for me. I prefer buying from websites that are trusted and look professional. I just can't see a professional looking website having grammar mistakes.
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          • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
            Banned
            Whether or not to buy from a website that contains bad grammar? What does it matter if that website was constructed by a native of an overseas country selling necklaces or the like, as opposed to a first language, English person's site?

            What really matters is that communication, appearance, and presentation, are all very important. If you want to get that great job out of hundreds of applicants then you simply don't turn up for your interview and speak drunkenly, look dishevelled, and have a crap CV. You convey what you wish to impress with.

            Is it really too hard to use one of the numerous free, online language courses that will educate you to a reasonable standard? Is it really too difficult to spell check your work first? Is it really not worth your while to improve upon an aspect of your life that really matters?

            If you can't be bothered then you really have poor self-esteem and little or no pride. It's so easy to do. Children learn it in school, students take advanced courses in college, and many learn it late in life. It really is never too late to learn. If you've no pride in your work then this reflects in the number of customers you'll attract.

            You can add me to the percentage of people that wouldn't buy from a website containing poor spelling and grammar. If you can't be bothered making the effort to present it well then I can't be bothered to make the effort to buy from you.
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            • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
              Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

              Whether or not to buy from a website that contains bad grammar? What does it matter if that website was constructed by a native of an overseas country selling necklaces or the like, as opposed to a first language, English person's site?

              What really matters is that communication, appearance, and presentation, are all very important. If you want to get that great job out of hundreds of applicants then you simply don't turn up for your interview and speak drunkenly, look dishevelled, and have a crap CV. You convey what you wish to impress with.

              Is it really too hard to use one of the numerous free, online language courses that will educate you to a reasonable standard? Is it really too difficult to spell check your work first? Is it really not worth your while to improve upon an aspect of your life that really matters?

              If you can't be bothered then you really have poor self-esteem and little or no pride. It's so easy to do. Children learn it in school, students take advanced courses in college, and many learn it late in life. It really is never too late to learn. If you've no pride in your work then this reflects in the number of customers you'll attract.

              You can add me to the percentage of people that wouldn't buy from a website containing poor spelling and grammar. If you can't be bothered making the effort to present it well then I can't be bothered to make the effort to buy from you.
              I think you hit the nail on the head with this (maybe unaware...)

              If a site is one more of many, if it has not unique proposition, then it can´t afford not to be tidy.

              Same with the application to a job. If you are going to be another brick on the wall, you have to present yourself as a pretty brick.

              Now... if you are bringing out your inner genius, then presentation is still important to ease communication, but it is not a deal breaker.
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        • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
          Originally Posted by csurv View Post

          Bad grammar on a website is a HUGE turnoff for me. I prefer buying from websites that are trusted and look professional. I just can't see a professional looking website having grammar mistakes.
          What would you do if you had an unbearable itch for months no doctor can cure, no medicine makes you feel better?

          You are going nuts...

          And you get to this site that has grammar issues, but it is clear they know what they are talking about. They happen to have a reasonable explanation for your problem and a solution... would you care then?
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

            And you get to this site that has grammar issues, but it is clear they know what they are talking about.
            I think there's a possible issue here (and this is what I was thinking about in my question to Caliban, above) of whether the grammar issues influence you when it isn't clear whether they know what they're talking about.

            This is sometimes the matter you have to try to judge, on someone's website, isn't it? I admit that these are times when grammatical mistakes may influence me, perhaps not always consciously: they can create an impression of carelessness, can't they? And if you have other sites to look at, in addition, I think it's not unnatural instinctively to prefer one that doesn't raise the spectre of possible carelessness? This is why I still have some issue with this, I think.
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            • Profile picture of the author danstairs
              Yes, I think bad grammar and spelling mistakes are unprofessional and this line of work is supposed to be a profession of sorts. Obviously, if the content is good, you can forgive some of that (if you can understand what is being said). I bought a WSO on here one time and the sales copy was very nicely written, but the replies on the thread from the author were strangely lacking in literacy, which put me off a bit (another one shelved - that's my excuse haha). Pick up any book, newspaper or magazine and the standard of writing will be exemplary. That's what everyone should aim at.
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            • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              I think there's a possible issue here (and this is what I was thinking about in my question to Caliban, above) of whether the grammar issues influence you when it isn't clear whether they know what they're talking about.

              This is sometimes the matter you have to try to judge, on someone's website, isn't it? I admit that these are times when grammatical mistakes may influence me, perhaps not always consciously: they can create an impression of carelessness, can't they? And if you have other sites to look at, in addition, I think it's not unnatural instinctively to prefer one that doesn't raise the spectre of possible carelessness? This is why I still have some issue with this, I think.
              I have issues too. Actually my issues go way further than grammar. If the place doesn´t "feel" right, if the colors are too bright or the design is weak, if there are inconsistencies.... my first instinct is to run.

              But still, the information IS the deal breaker for me.

              I was covered in work and had been pushing it for months... One day, all of the sudden, it appeared a rash in the whole body, I had problems to think, I just could not function. My doctor had no idea of what was going on.


              I searched and searched and finally got to this site... the lady started with a problem like mine, and a couple of months later they discovered she had cancer till the nails, completely spread.

              She cured herself with a very aggressive natural treatment...

              Her site was evidently amateur, it looked like crap and there were many grammar issues that even I could see...

              That site probably saved my life. I definitely don´t care if the grammar was bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Gram
    For me it depends. I tend not to trust things that are spelled wrong etc. However, in terms of grammar, I prefer that people are themselves and show some personality so I'm not bothered by dude, umms, and things like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Some people THINK that it doesn't effect their opinions. IT does at a subconscious level even if they aren't willing to admit that consciously. Each mistake makes the eye stop and if you stop the eye enough, everything you say becomes suspect because you are violating the mind's center of normalcy. If it's unusual, it will be seen as suspect. That's instinctual. There are a few exceptions. Localisms (colloquialisms) aren't always proper - but if they are recognized as standard in the local area, they won't register as abnormal so will be ignored. It's not always a matter of looking educated. It's a matter of being unusual. Our instincts aren't set up for that one.
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  • Profile picture of the author bl
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    Yes, I don't trust any sites but the name brands but I will quickly click off any site with misspelled words and graphics. I feel like the only person who would put up a site that looks bad and has bad grammar, is a scam site. So, it means for me to avoid.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      I think it shows laziness and a lack of respect.
      Really? I just looked at your 3 previous posts and found no less than 9 mistakes of grammar. Should you be banned from the forum for this blatant disrespect of our members?

      Of course not. Still, you might want to consider in the future whether that's really your stone to throw.
      I feel like the only person who would put up a site that looks bad and has bad grammar, is a scam site.
      Mote, timber. Mrs Wombat would have berated you to within an inch of your sanity for such horrific construction.

      As usual, there are more such examples in this thread.

      Wombats, it would seem, are not particularly graceful (or gracious) creatures.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    This heated discussion comes up about twice per year. Do a
    search and you'll see.

    There are things that I expect from my mechanic that I don't
    expect from my doctor. If you are a writer, (not copywriter)
    then your grammar should be intact because that is your
    area of expertise. But grammar is simply the rules of a
    language, without which sentences wouldn't make much
    sense. So we need those rules.

    At the same time your grammar doesn't have to be perfect
    for your writing to make sense to your readers, and bad
    grammar does reflect on you whether you want to believe
    it or not.

    Good grammar is better than bad grammar.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Chiayee
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      At the same time your grammar doesn't have to be perfect

      -Ray Edwards
      That's right!

      I know a key player in a health related niche. English is not his first language, and his grammar used to be horrible. However, his contents are sooo good some of his readers (native English speakers) to volunteer proofread for him. Go figure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sushiman1111
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    Yes

    Yes

    Depends, but in general if you have mistakes on your website why should I trust what you have to sell? Just speaks of shoddiness all the way around to me. (Of course, I'm a language teacher, lol.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Sue McDonald
    Yes I hate bad grammar and also incorrect spelling and no I would not purchase from that site especially if they were offering any written work.

    If you are not strong on spelling and grammar but you know you ideas are sound pay to get someone to proof read your material.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
    I have only one question:

    Does using good grammar hurt?
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Berry
    Of course it will affect your customer loyalty, some people are pissed off with improper grammar and they will think bad to the website owner who provide them with bad way to read an article. There are many way to prevent this problem, you can hire a proofreader in odesk or any other outsource website. You might want to prefer an English native for this kind of work.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Huh gramma? She is in a nursing home now.

    Well seriously, it can hurt you. Certain sectors like banking and finance are more delicate about language use. Still, I have seen sites that use profanity really score. What can we say...
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    • Profile picture of the author TerranceCharles
      When they write an email, a blog post, or a sales page, I have to read it three or four times to understand it.

      I still buy their work, because it's excellent.
      @Cdarklock That's a GOOD point. It all depends on what you're looking for, if you're hiring a writer, then that's a no-no. If they produce good work that's relevant to what you need, a few bad grammar mistakes is ok, as long as you know what you're looking for.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    Hey my grammar sucks, Spanish is my first language

    Yes it does hurt, but at the same time marketers know that this is a world wide thing and bad grammar and English is to be expected :p

    When I go to the local 7 eleven I expect bad grammar and English
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  • Profile picture of the author leemajors
    For sure, how can you trust a person /company if they can't communicate properly. Co-Mon Man

    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    I think it definitely plays a part in the overall opinion we form of a person or website.

    Think of it like someone turning up to a business meeting with a clearly wrinkled and un-ironed shirt. It doesn't mean I would necessarily not trust them but it would definitely have an effect on the initial impression I form of that person. I would probably think they lack attention to detail, and other things like that. Sure, over the course of the meeting I may change my opinion of that person, but first impressions do play a big role.

    You always want to be putting your best foot forward.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Yes I hate bad grammar and also incorrect spelling and no I would not purchase from that site especially if they were offering any written work.

      If you are not strong on spelling and grammar but you know you ideas are sound pay to get someone to proof read your material.
      Emphasis added. Not that the one mistake is all that out of place in that syntactically-challenged post...

      Also, if you're going to wombat folks, it's probably a good idea to learn the proper use of commas.
      For sure, how can you trust a person /company if they can't communicate properly.
      You mean, like ending questions with the appropriate punctuation?


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Really? I just looked at your 3 previous posts and found no less than 9 mistakes of grammar. Should you be banned from the forum for this blatant disrespect of our members?

        Of course not. Still, you might want to consider in the future whether that's really your stone to throw.Mote, timber. Mrs Wombat would have berated you to within an inch of your sanity for such horrific construction.

        As usual, there are more such examples in this thread.

        Wombats, it would seem, are not particularly graceful (or gracious) creatures.


        Paul
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Emphasis added. Not that the one mistake is all that out of place in that syntactically-challenged post...

        Also, if you're going to wombat folks, it's probably a good idea to learn the proper use of commas.You mean, like ending questions with the appropriate punctuation?


        Paul
        Paul,

        You and I both know that posting to a forum and writing the text for a site are two completely different things. Most people aren't going to proofread their forum posts...

        However, they should always proofread their websites. I may well make mistakes here. I often lapse into British English when I'm typing off the cuff. But I always edit it afterwards if it's for a client or myself.

        If you don't spend the time to check through your spelling and grammar on your site, then how do I know your product will have been checked?

        If someone hasn't made the effort, why should I click "buy now"?

        EDIT: Oh, and I don't mean if there is one comma out of place I will click off. Sometimes little things creep through.
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      • Profile picture of the author RobinInTexas
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Emphasis added. Not that the one mistake is all that out of place in that syntactically-challenged post...

        Also, if you're going to wombat folks, it's probably a good idea to learn the proper use of commas.You mean, like ending questions with the appropriate punctuation?


        Paul
        You also need to use appropriate capitalization.

        e.g.
        I helped my Uncle Jack off his horse.
        i helped my uncle jack off his horse.
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        ...Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just set there.
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        • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Bagley
          Originally Posted by RobinInTexas View Post

          You also need to use appropriate capitalization.

          e.g.
          You've just made my day with this example of bad grammar
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  • Profile picture of the author lucidbs
    If buying from a site, over $10, I'd concern a bit of grammer as it's just the impression that the owner cares and being professional. If it's a freebie, or cheap stuff, I'd not expect too much out of the salesletter other than what the actual product does to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author MrMonetize
    I hate bad grammer and spilling as well.

    Seriously, it just looks unprofessional especially on a website. Considering most computers & browsers spell check nowadays, there really is no excuse. If you are having English content written for your site, I'd recommend using a native English writer as well. I have had so many examples of work from so called outsourcers, charging the same price as native English in some cases, and I could spot the grammar mistakes a mile off. If you are producing Ebooks etc, then have them proof read, its worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave37
    It depends.
    There is a limited number of grammar mistakes that can be accepted or considered as fast typing errors. But in my opinion once you go beyond that limit, it can negatively affect the trust of your salespage or website
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by Dave37 View Post

      It depends.
      There is a limited number of grammar mistakes that can be accepteded
      I think you mean there are a limited number...

      Also, you mispelled accepted.

      Sorry; I have to let my inner jerk run the show now and then.
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

        I think you mean there are a limited number...

        Also, you mispelled accepted.

        Sorry; I have to let my inner jerk run the show now and then.
        I guess the same way you misspelled 'mispelled', right? :rolleyes:

        Too funny.
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        • Profile picture of the author MrMonetize
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          I guess the same way you misspelled 'mispelled', right? :rolleyes:

          Too funny.
          Oh my. Haha
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          • Profile picture of the author Henry Mc Cullum
            You cant explain properly to the costumers about your brand or product with bad grammar.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Henry Mc Cullum View Post

              You cant explain properly to the costumers about your brand or product with bad grammar.
              This is perhaps true - maybe not even to the seamstresses.
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          • Profile picture of the author Haroon Ballim
            First Impressions count . Make a poor first impression and a lot of people will be put off even going further or trying your product . So if they see poor spelling on your sales page they are already mentally forming a picture of the quality of your actual product . The product may be good but if the first thing presented to potential buyers is not impressive due to the grammar , than many will just move on . So I would say , do your utmost to ensure your grammar and spelling are good
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          I guess the same way you misspelled 'mispelled', right? :rolleyes:

          Too funny.

          Haha; oops. In my defense, I was kidding. :p
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Haha; oops. In my defense, I was kidding. :p
            Quis custodiet ipsos vombatidae?
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              DM,

              More a joke than anything to be taken literally. A play on "quis custodiet ipsos custodes," which is generally translated (loosely) as "Who watches the watchmen?"

              Hence my version: "Who watches the wombats?"

              Your translation is probably more precise, which makes the quote even funnier.


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              • Profile picture of the author 24hours
                Okay, I admit that I haven't read each and every reply to this thread.

                I can only offer my newbie opinion (having recently purchased severak WSOs) . . . and that is . . .

                Grammar counts!!!!!!
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                • Profile picture of the author Importexport
                  I am old school, so grammar counts for me, but so does spelling.

                  In researching ways of selling my eBook on importing, I visited many internet marketing sites. On some I found people trying to sell information although they appeared only semi-literate. If I am looking for information I am unlikely to trust what is offered by someone who cannot properly express himself..

                  One internet marketing site contained grammatical errors that led to ambiguity, and even incomprehensibility. Spelling errors abounded on that site. The seller wanted people to believe that she or he could be relied upon for valuable information.

                  A common mistake made by writers is to rely on spell check programs without proof reading. The result can be quite funny when the spell checking program inserts correctly spelled words with the wrong meaning.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                    A common mistake made by writers is to rely on spell check programs without proof reading. The result can be quite funny when the spell checking program inserts correctly spelled words with the wrong meaning.
                    Indeed. Here's a related old chestnut. Source unknown...

                    Eye halve a spelling chequer
                    It came with my pea sea
                    It plainly marques four my revue
                    Miss steaks eye kin knot sea
                    Eye strike a key and type a word
                    And weight four it two say
                    Weather eye am wrong oar write
                    It shows me strait a weigh
                    As soon as a mist ache is maid
                    It nose bee four two long
                    And eye can put the error rite
                    Its rare lea ever wrong
                    Eye have run this poem threw it
                    am shore your pleased two no
                    Its letter perfect awl the weigh
                    My chequer tolled me sew

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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                DM,
                Really?

                I genuinely thought I got that wrong.
                Maybe. I couldn't say for sure. Latin is not my strong suit. I suspect you got it right in the literal sense. These things rarely translate well when taken literally, though.

                For example, I believe the literal translation of the original quote is "Who guards the guardians?" That ignores the connotations of the word 'guard' in use at the time, though, which implied a sentinel, or watchman, more than a protector. The looser translation is more true to the original spirit of the question.


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            • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Quis custodiet ipsos vombatidae?
              Exactly. (Thanks for the translation).
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
    Moderation is the key here, as in most things. So I have become more tolerant of mistakes that used to bug me, and have come to realize that what I used to think "sounds dumb", might actually be coming from someone very smart.

    For example, one of the best marketers in our community regularly makes a glaring mistake I have learned to overlook because I am his student; not the other way around. His products are great, but he cranks them out fast, and doesn't care about perfection. I care too much, and get far less done because of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author troy23
    Yes - it says a lot about an individual if they cannot take the time to ensure grammar and spelling are correct.
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  • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
    If I can't understand the point, I won't buy.

    If because the grammar, or sentence structure isn't right, it isn't compelling, I won't buy.

    A few spelling mistakes of typos are forgiveable, so long as it doesn't look like the write couldn't be bothered (which I think is worse than language barriers)

    It's more what that content says about the person trying to sell something.

    If the content is understandable, and is 'uniquely you' I can't see that it is off putting.

    The thing I can't personally understand is when something sounds like it is spun, and I don't have time to try to unravel that mess, that's just my opinion though.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheEye
      In my city, the grammar changes from suburb to suburb and from occupation to occupation. Even the meaning of words change.

      The grammar taught in universities is rarely used in the real world.

      So the correct grammar to use is the grammar that your target audience uses.

      Asking this question on the warrior forum only has relevance if your target audience is internet marketers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Budabrit,
        You and I both know that posting to a forum and writing the text for a site are two completely different things.
        Absolutely. Except when one is, as the first two were, and the second in the next pair, attacking someone's character over such small things. That's not only illogical and arrogant, it's abusive.

        The third of the four was beyond ignoring. There is simply no justification for a wombat who can't handle even basic syntax.

        Folks who've seen me in these threads over the years know that I rarely correct anyone's grammar, except when they're sloppy while pontificating about another's grammaric shortcomings.

        As a general rule, I only wombat the wombats.

        writeaway,
        It shows how unprofessional the site owner/webmaster is.
        Physician, heal thy sig.

        The only real surprise in this thread is that we made it to post 41 before one of The Righteous spelled it "grammer."


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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    It shows how unprofessional the site owner/webmaster is. Not a good sign.
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    • Profile picture of the author Crowsnest
      I totally agree, I think it simply shows a lack of pride and care in what is being presented, we all make mistakes, but we should be professional about what we are portraying; it is a business?
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    • Profile picture of the author AnnaPaterson
      Bad grammar always ruins the product. it is all about the image. to be hones I would question the product if I see bad grammar... yet with time and proper publicity or feedback about the product things might cane.
      either way bad grammar, is bad grammar.
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    I'm a bit confused with the majority of answers. In the world of direct response marketing the grammar was never perfect yet products sold like hotcakes in magazines. Has humans become that sophisticated in this IM era? I have my doubts. People will buy if they feel what you have fill their needs better than anyone else.

    My theory
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      TE,
      Has humans become that sophisticated in this IM era?
      I believe you may have misspelled "intolerant." Or perhaps "self-important."

      It would be easier to give these folks credence if they presented any reason to believe they'd recognize bad grammar in the first place. Looking at the posts of most people who say they'd refuse to buy something over typos, I see no reason to consider that likely.

      There are a lot of excellent points in this discussion. Grammar does matter, within certain bounds. Excessive mistakes will, for many people, create a perception of carelessness that reflects poorly on the product or service being offered.

      The thing most folks never touch on is that typos and misplaced apostrophes are easily glossed over. Busted syntax, on the other hand, is a very real impediment to comprehension. And wombats are especially prone to sloppy syntax.

      As a friend used to say, "Those people couldn't write a decent shopping list."


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      • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        TE,I believe you may have misspelled "intolerant." Or perhaps "self-important."

        It would be easier to give these folks credence if they presented any reason to believe they'd recognize bad grammar in the first place. Looking at the posts of most people who say they'd refuse to buy something over typos, I see no reason to consider that likely.

        There are a lot of excellent points in this discussion. Grammar does matter, within certain bounds. Excessive mistakes will, for many people, create a perception of carelessness that reflects poorly on the product or service being offered.

        The thing most folks never touch on is that typos and misplaced apostrophes are easily glossed over. Busted syntax, on the other hand, is a very real impediment to comprehension. And wombats are especially prone to sloppy syntax.

        As a friend used to say, "Those people couldn't write a decent shopping list."


        Paul
        Hence it completely depends on what you're buying.

        For an information product, every error is a sign of potential mistakes in the product. Missing something like an apostophe is forgivable, as is misusing a comma occasionally: these things sometimes slip through. And starting a sentence with "and, but, etc." has become acceptable and actually can help with flow when reading, especially after a headline, imo.

        Sentence structure, though...

        That needs to be right.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          For an information product, every error is a sign of potential mistakes in the product.
          As you say, it depends on what you're buying. A grammatical error in a fly-tying guide is irrelevant in most instances. (And even when it's not, you see the problem pretty quickly, believe me. )
          Sentence structure, though...

          That needs to be right.
          Yeah. And it's the most commonly missed error by the world's wannabe wombats.


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  • Profile picture of the author Edk
    It's a little like judging someone on their appearance. There is the point that one doesn't want to be too shallow in one's approach to things and people. But it's impossible not to form some type of an opinion on the basis of what you see in front of you. Sometimes what you see gives rise to an excellent opinion in your mind. Sometimes the opposite is the case. It's a natural reaction.

    The same goes for spelling and grammar on a site.
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  • Profile picture of the author chloetaylor
    Banned
    Yes,a bad grammar present a negative image for a site because it is not right for any type of selling and communication.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Originally Posted by chloetaylor View Post

      Yes,a bad grammar present a negative image for a site because it is not right for any type of selling and communication.
      You mean, like using an Anglo name, claiming to be from London, and using European female pics, when you're really posting from Pakistan to promote the (Danish) links in your (ex)signature?


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      • Profile picture of the author MrMonetize
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        You mean, like using an Anglo name, claiming to be from London, and using European female pics, when you're really posting from Pakistan to promote the (Danish) links in your (ex)signature?
        Paul
        This is brilliant.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          This is brilliant.
          Nah. Just a listing of truths.

          If anyone ever wonders why I think the majority of "SEO" types are sleazeballs, send them to this thread. This is what "paid forum posters" who do "SEO" work usually are. Lying schmucks, who contribute nothing to the environment they attempt to profit from.

          Freaking leeches...


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          • Profile picture of the author MrMonetize
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Nah. Just a listing of truths.

            If anyone ever wonders why I think the majority of "SEO" types are sleazeballs, send them to this thread. This is what "paid forum posters" who do "SEO" work usually are. Lying schmucks, who contribute nothing to the environment they attempt to profit from.

            Freaking leeches...

            Paul
            I quite agree, I just laughed out loud when I read your post. I had just gone to their Twitter, to see a UK English 'Girl' promoting steel buildings in her feed, then I come back to see your comment and it just about summed it up. You'd think they'd realize that a marketing forum can spot them from a mile off.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              You'd think they'd realize that a marketing forum can spot them from a mile off.
              Sure, when we see them. The problem is, these cockroaches can skitter around the forum for ages before they're reported, or spotted by a mod.

              They count on that.

              I just nuked one that showed all of 12 posts in his public count. When the total came back in, he'd had 49 posts removed. So, 37 of them were in the OT or WSO sections (wanna bet on which?), and they'd been built up over a 6-month period.

              They're now forced into using up their old accounts, but they had plenty of those developed. We spend way too much time having to chase these parasites.

              Speaking without the official red and black moderator cap: Anyone who advocates the use of automated link dropping, or blog or forum posting strictly for SEO, should be burned from the net.

              "Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."


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              • Profile picture of the author MrMonetize
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Sure, when we see them. The problem is, these cockroaches can skitter around the forum for ages before they're reported, or spotted by a mod.

                They count on that.

                I just nuked one that showed all of 12 posts in his public count. When the total came back in, he'd had 49 posts removed. So, 37 of them were in the OT or WSO sections (wanna bet on which?), and they'd been built up over a 6-month period.

                They're now forced into using up their old accounts, but they had plenty of those developed. We spend way too much time having to chase these parasites.

                Speaking without the official red and black moderator cap: Anyone who advocates the use of automated link dropping, or blog or forum posting strictly for SEO, should be burned from the net.

                "Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."


                Paul
                Thats fair enough. I'll have a bet on the WSO section where there is some nice traffic?
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  I'll have a bet on the WSO section where there is some nice traffic?
                  Yep. The twits haven't figured out yet their sigs don't show there.

                  The SEO section gets hit the hardest with these cretins. I'd feel bad for them, except that most of what we call "SEO" is just abuse of the system.


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                  • Profile picture of the author MrMonetize
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Yep. The twits haven't figured out yet their sigs don't show there.

                    The SEO section gets hit the hardest with these cretins. I'd feel bad for them, except that most of what we call "SEO" is just abuse of the system.


                    Paul
                    I've noticed and reported some cookie stuffers on here. Specifically in the WSO section. That nice yellow image box kinda gives the game away!
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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      I've noticed and reported some cookie stuffers on here. Specifically in the WSO section. That nice yellow image box kinda gives the game away!
                      Your reports are appreciated!

                      Those scumbags are a whole other kind of parasite. Mostly Chinese-based phishers, or US-based thieves using Chinese hackers as proxies. The same folks you used to see in here every day, offering to sell CC data, or Paypal account log-in and password pairs. Along with other nasty stuff.


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                      • Profile picture of the author MrMonetize
                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                        Your reports are appreciated!

                        Paul
                        No worries. I'll be sure to look out for cookie stuffers, link spammers and grammatical errors in future..
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacob Padget
    If the writing is a part of a business, then I would expect the person to take more care over what they are writing, as their own money is at stake. And, if someone can't produce good grammar in order to gain them money, they are unlikely to provide it when someone else's money being well spent is at stake. One would assume.

    More practically, when I see bad grammar in an advertisement, it annoys me. It also breaks the rhythm of whatever that person was trying to say at the time, and I think about how they should have really done it. Therefore, I think about the advertisement less as a conversation with myself and more as a piece of writing trying to generate sales. Of course, that's what it is. But, the purpose of an advertisement is to make the reader think that the money that they are spending on something is worth less than the product or service itself. If you see the advertisement as someone begging you to buy something from them, then you will become more skeptical of giving your money to them.

    Also, honestly, I think it looks less intelligent if someone uses bad grammar, and makes them look like novices.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
      Originally Posted by Jacob Padget View Post


      Also, honestly, I think it looks less intelligent if someone uses bad grammar, and makes them look like novices.
      That is probably one of the main misconceptions.

      It is true that language and brain development go hand in hand.

      Each term relates to a concept. The richer the vocabulary the more refined the ability to discriminate details, what is tightly related with the development of certain forms of intelligence.

      What this line of thinking does not include is, in my opinion, globalization.

      People who have English as first and only language, will show plenty of their way of thinking and mental structure when talking (or writing). In this case, lack of vocabulary (assuming it is not a choice) will speak of lack of ability to discern; and lack of grammar will talk about issues with communication.

      When globalization comes to play though, things change greatly. You can meet people who are highly developed in their own language, and have limitations in English. It is very difficult to squeeze the background knowledge in the tiny package of the new language.

      Of course, any judgement we make talks about the other person as much as it talks about ourselves.

      When I see Wombats, as Paul has cleverly defined them, I see sorry ass$%&s who don´t have a life. Plain and simple. Of course, that is my own limitation... go figure.
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  • Profile picture of the author esr
    Bad grammar is not nearly as bad as incorrect spelling. Bad grammar can usually be written off to someone writing in a language other than their first language. But, bad spelling really gets me. It's a thing with me. If you can't spell, take 7 seconds and use spellcheck!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      But, bad spelling really gets me.
      Get over it.

      Spelling was taught the wrong way ("sound it out") for so long in the US that we have huge chunks of population who are perfectly intelligent and can't spell worth spit.


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    • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
      Originally Posted by esr View Post

      Bad grammar is not nearly as bad as incorrect spelling. Bad grammar can usually be written off to someone writing in a language other than their first language. But, bad spelling really gets me. It's a thing with me. If you can't spell, take 7 seconds and use spellcheck!!!
      I wish it was so easy!! Most of the spelling problems do not jump in the spelling checker...

      bald for bold
      meat for meet
      lie for lay
      prey for pray
      curse for course
      sight for sigh
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      • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
        Originally Posted by Jacob Padget View Post

        Sandra, I completely understand that people not having English as their first language is a major reason why grammar mistakes are made. But, practically speaking, bad grammar gives the impression that the person is lacking in intelligence, and therefore, discourages sales.
        Jacob, you are right to certain extent. This...

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Jacob,That's true. But only among the shallow and unaware.


        Paul
        is what happens in these cases.

        Most of my clients - when I was working for third parties - were very successful marketers, people able to see beyond the first layer.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Sandra,

        Or...

        your|you're|yore
        too|to|two|tu
        they're|their|there|[yonder]

        etc....



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        • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Sandra,

          Or...

          your|you're|yore
          too|to|two|tu
          they're|their|there|[yonder]

          etc....



          Paul
          Yes, these are more common among native English speakers than foreigners. This is result of horrible education programs.

          It will have consequences. Languages are alive. At this rate, what is considered now proper English will be ancient in two generations.

          They might even be forced to do what they did in Brazil, where all spellings of the words are accepted.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            where all spellings of the words are accepted.
            Ghoti!


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  • Profile picture of the author Jacob Padget
    Sandra, I completely understand that people not having English as their first language is a major reason why grammar mistakes are made. But, practically speaking, bad grammar gives the impression that the person is lacking in intelligence, and therefore, discourages sales.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Jacob,
      But, practically speaking, bad grammar gives the impression that the person is lacking in intelligence, and therefore, discourages sales.
      That's true. But only among the shallow and unaware.


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  • Profile picture of the author MktCoach
    Agreed with most of the points here. Good grammar and spelling breed initial trust when encountering someone you don't yet know. It suggests a shared background - if you happen to also have an "educated" background.

    This said, when it comes to marketing, it all depends on whom you're addressing yourself to. If you write in an academic, scholarly style pushing some "cool" teen product aimed at 13-year-olds, guess how far will good grammar get you? It may, in fact, work against you.

    There's more to communication and demographic targeting than "good" grammar. It needs to be "appropriate" for the given market.

    Good marketers think that way
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  • Profile picture of the author CurtisSWN
    Bad grammar certainly will not get you an "A" from your teacher, and I agree bad grammar is generally revolting to me. However, coming out of the current educational system, it can be forgiven somewhat.

    What is really important though is connecting to your prospect through your words, sometimes you're going to defy the rules. But the rules are put there so that everybody is on the same page, as it were.

    So if you grammar is not immaculately perfect, you still may not get an "A" from your teacher, but you'll get the sale still.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I'm neither revolted nor appalled by bad spelling and grammar. I often violate the rules of sentence structure when writing - when it works for my purposes.

      If content is interesting and useful I'll read right past errors in language and some in spelling. If the errors are the main thing I see - I move on.

      An expert in any field or a person with unique theories and ideas can write with loads of language-based errors yet get their points across and be worth reading.

      Content for the the purpose of having content can't get by with much in the way of errors because it often isn't worth reading in the first place.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author TorinoGray
    I was looking at the sales page for a ClickBank product. There was celebrity endorsement. I was excited because it was one of those sales pages that makes me want to pull out MY credit card. (You copywriters are the bomb!)

    Then I read a quote from Dr. Such and Such that she is recommending this to her "patience".
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  • Profile picture of the author ceenote100
    Bad grammer on a website is totally unprofessional. Make sure your content doesn't have any misspelled words and run-on sentences. Try not to use too much slang as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
      Originally Posted by ceenote100 View Post

      Bad grammer on a website is totally unprofessional. Make sure your content doesn't have any misspelled words and run-on sentences. Try not to use too much slang as well.
      yeah you are right... misspelled words and bad grammer are unacceptable...
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      • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
        Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

        yeah you are right... misspelled words and bad grammer are unacceptable...
        This 'wombatting' is great fun, isn't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author adamprince1981
    It all depends what it's supposed to interpret. If site is represent a styling or speaking or just the way they talk naturally I would, but if it's just one missed spelled word after another don't think I would trust it enough. No real room for an excuse with spell check out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heart Cardio
    An occasional mistake, hey that happens. But when it is all the time on a site, then I begin to really wonder. I do not like reading garbage, and think that when you have a website it needs to be formatted with correct grammar so it makes sense. I do not want to read something like "Me think that these are the best shoes ever". Turned off big time by that.
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  • Profile picture of the author khooster1
    Can't believe that this thread is hitting 100 posts!!
    This means Grammar is indeed important!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Vadimarket
    Also depends on a costumer.

    Personally, if I see someone confusing "your" and "you're". I won't buy from him..just sayin.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
    It doesn't affect me at all. The reason it shouldn't affect anyone is because a lot of decent people in the world don't speak or write English perfectly, including many native English writers. Not a big deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
    For those who argue against at least attempting to use proper grammar and spelling:
    Do you care so little about your message that you're not willing to at least make the EFFORT to get it right?

    Particularly spelling. Learn the basics of to/too/two/tu, there/their/they're, your/you're, etc... It can and will change the whole meaning of your message for readers who have a decent grasp on the rules. For those who don't have that grasp, they won't notice, but doing it right satisfies both parties instead of only those who haven't had the opportunity to learn the rules.

    Make the effort. It is worth it. Always go the extra mile in your business and I promise future you will thank the now you for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
      Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

      For those who argue against at least attempting to use proper grammar and spelling:
      Do you care so little about your message that you're not willing to at least make the EFFORT to get it right?

      Particularly spelling. Learn the basics of to/too/two/tu, there/their/they're, your/you're, etc... It can and will change the whole meaning of your message for readers who have a decent grasp on the rules. For those who don't have that grasp, they won't notice, but doing it right satisfies both parties instead of only those who haven't had the opportunity to learn the rules.

      Make the effort. It is worth it. Always go the extra mile in your business and I promise future you will thank the now you for it.
      You are making an interesting assumption here. You are assuming that those who have a low threshold to judge others, do it because they have the problem themselves...

      Question: have you ever found an unintentional misspelling or grammar mistake in any of Paul´s posts, blog posts or ebooks? I haven´t. Let me tell you something, that man CAN WRITE.

      About those who have the particular issues you mention, they are victims of the system. Once you learn something wrong, it is extremely difficult to overcome it.

      I had one teacher who couldn´t spell for the life of her in 3rd grade... The particular mistakes she taught me, followed me around until my twenties. I had been trying to shake them off since I was 13.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        James,
        For those who argue against at least attempting to use proper grammar and spelling:
        I don't see anyone arguing that spelling and grammar are unimportant.
        Do you care so little about your message that you're not willing to at least make the EFFORT to get it right?
        [chuckle] You have that backwards, sir.

        If you look through this thread, and most of the others on the topic, you'll notice something interesting: The majority of the serious errors are made by folks on the "It must be right or you're a lazy idiot and your product sucks!" side of the argument.

        The folks who recommend a bit more flexibility in judgment are usually also among the more habitually precise writers in the discussions.

        Seriously. It's a consistent pattern, which you can verify for yourself with only a small investment of time. I recommend it, both for clarity on the topic and for the insight it provides into how people take and promote positions in public discussion.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          James,I don't see anyone arguing that spelling and grammar are unimportant.[chuckle] You have that backwards, sir.

          If you look through this thread, and most of the others on the topic, you'll notice something interesting: The majority of the serious errors are made by folks on the "It must be right or you're a lazy idiot and your product sucks!" side of the argument.

          The folks who recommend a bit more flexibility in judgment are usually also among the more habitually precise writers in the discussions.

          Seriously. It's a consistent pattern, which you can verify for yourself with only a small investment of time. I recommend it, both for clarity on the topic and for the insight it provides into how people take and promote positions in public discussion.


          Paul
          I read between the lines in many of the threads on this topic and between those lines are arguments of all kinds. You see it as well as I do and I know you've encouraged people to read between the lines many times over the years on this forum.

          The main camps I frequently see are:

          Those who argue it isn't really "important":
          There are those who say it is unimportant, often because they simply don't care.
          There are those who say it is unimportant, often because they believe that the information is more important than how it is presented.

          Those who argue it is REALLY important:
          There are those who care because... well... they are grammar nazis.
          There are those who care, often because they believe that it helps a business look professional.
          There are those who care, because it is a pet peeve.
          There are those who care because they want to be understood properly.

          One thing both camps seem to overlook is the concept of basic/functional grammar and spelling. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it should be an approximation of "correct" especially in the use of the common errors (your/you're, their/they're/there, then/than, etc...). It isn't a must that a person has perfect grammar and spelling, but it is a must that it be correct "enough" to not change the meaning of the message into something that it wasn't meant to be.

          This whole thread is filled with people making a case as to why it happens, why it isn't important, why they hate when people get it wrong, etc....

          Here is the truth.

          If you care about being understood and your message being properly conveyed the best thing you can do is drop the excuses and simply make the effort. Make the effort. Respect your message enough to put in the work to convey it clearly.

          Think of it much like creating graphics for your business. If you aren't proficient with photoshop or just "ok" with it and you want people to see your product/presentation/website as professional what is the first thing you do?

          You hire a designer who is proficient in photoshop so that you can convey the visual message of professionalism and value.

          Why should spelling and basic/functional grammar be any different for your business?


          Regardless of what the naysayers believe, basic/functional grammar and spelling do matter at some level and there is NO HARM in making the effort to get it right.

          Some suggestions on what to do to get it right:
          Look it up on google/bing,
          Hire someone
          Ask a friend to proofread
          Ask a family member to proofread
          Ask a classmate or professor (if you're in school) to proofread

          Mind you, I'm focusing mostly on professional communication such as sales messages, landing pages, etc... Simple casual communications don't require as much effort, but even in that circumstance if you want to be clear in your message it helps when you know the basics.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            James,
            You see it as well as I do and I know you've encouraged people to read between the lines many times over the years on this forum.
            That's certainly true. I also caution people to question assumptions. Especially their own.
            There are those who say it is unimportant, often because they believe that the information is more important than how it is presented.
            You left out a significant camp: Those who say that grammar can be important, but that one should focus more on the message.

            There are a few of us who only get involved in these discussions when people say illogical things like "If your grammar is bad, you must not know what you're talking about," and put those notions forth as sweeping truths. It's an indicator of your knowledge of grammar, and not much else.

            People who take that even further, using it as an excuse to judge someone's character, are just being rude.
            If you care about being understood and your message being properly conveyed the best thing you can do is drop the excuses and simply make the effort. Make the effort. Respect your message enough to put in the work to convey it clearly.
            This is excellent advice for the content creator. I would pair it with advice for the content consumer:

            If you're really interested in learning, make the effort to focus on getting as much as you can from the message. Remember that communication is a two-way process, and you have some responsibility for your returns (literally and figuratively) from that process.

            It's also a good idea to have someone take a look at your writing (generic you, not directed to James) before you decide to wombat anyone else. As I mentioned earlier, the worst mistakes in these threads tend to come from the harshest critics.


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      • Profile picture of the author Sushiman1111
        Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

        Question: have you ever found an unintentional misspelling or grammar mistake in any of Paul´s posts, blog posts or ebooks? I haven´t. Let me tell you something, that man CAN WRITE.
        Hmm... I do believe that there might be one in this thread (albeit it came after your post).
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        • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
          Originally Posted by Sushiman1111 View Post

          Hmm... I do believe that there might be one in this thread (albeit it came after your post).
          Oh boy... you are calling the b%&$tch in me... Can´t. Hold. Her. Any. Longer...

          Patience...

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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

            Oh boy... you are calling the b%& in me... Can´t. Hold. Her. Any. Longer...

            Patience...

            LOL Sandra!

            Thanks for the smile this morning.

            Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Alex,
          Hmm... I do believe that there might be one in this thread (albeit it came after your post).
          If so, it wouldn't be the first, and won't be the last.

          One of the great things about not expecting perfection... when you screw up, you don't look even more stupid for failing to meet your own unrealistic standards.


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          • Profile picture of the author Sushiman1111
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Alex,If so, it wouldn't be the first, and won't be the last.

            One of the great things about not expecting perfection... when you screw up, you don't look even more stupid for failing to meet your own unrealistic standards.


            Paul
            Agreed. Another way to go would be to truly commit to doing your best (as you yourself obviously have) and not be content with "good enough" in certain areas. Then, when the inevitable screw-up occurs, you can at least know that you gave it your best shot, and not worry too much when people who have lesser expectations of themselves snipe at you.
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            • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
              Originally Posted by Sushiman1111 View Post

              Agreed. Another way to go would be to truly commit to doing your best (as you yourself obviously have) and not be content with "good enough" in certain areas. Then, when the inevitable screw-up occurs, you can at least know that you gave it your best shot, and not worry too much when people who have lesser expectations of themselves snipe at you.
              You are doing something interesting here.

              You are assuming that the writer is not doing his best.

              How do you know that a person who has typos or grammatical issues is not doing his best? He might be doing more than his best and going beyond his comfort zone. Whenever a person moves beyond the comfort zone makes mistakes, it is just how it works.

              What do you propose? Maybe that only those who are super-literate express themselves? The others should shut up or hire those who know best?
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              • Profile picture of the author Sushiman1111
                Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

                You are doing something interesting here.

                You are assuming that the writer is not doing his best.

                How do you know that a person who has typos or grammatical issues is not doing his best? He might be doing more than his best and going beyond his comfort zone. Whenever a person moves beyond the comfort zone makes mistakes, it is just how it works.

                What do you propose? Maybe that only those who are super-literate express themselves? The others should shut up or hire those who know best?
                And you're reading a lot into my post that simply isn't there.

                Look, the OP asked if bad English turns you off a website. My answer is yes. Many of the other people's answers have also been yes. That shows me that, even though there are also a lot of people who don't particularly care about spelling, grammar and so on, someone who has bad English on their website should make an effort to get it right. No linguistic elitism here, just plain dollars and cents. Bad grammar/spelling turns off a large number of potential customers. Ignoring it is like saying you shouldn't learn copywriting because some people don't care about it. Fine, but you're leaving money on the table.

                After 20+ years in language teaching, I can confidently say that over 90% of the errors a native speaker makes in a case like publishing a webpage will be due to a simple lack of proof-reading. So seeing errors on a website makes me think the whole thing (including the product) will be slipshod. Are there some people out there who simply don't have the language skills to get the job done? Definitely. Those people should find some friends who do and have them look at the copy. No friends? Hire a pro. No money? Go to your local library and get some of the librarians to help you out. They'll be thrilled. No library? Post on here and ask for help, or better yet, find an English forum and do it there. Go look up your old high school English teacher. Etc.

                There are options available to pretty much everyone, especially when "everyone" has a computer and internet connection and thus can post a question on this forum in the first place.
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                • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
                  Originally Posted by Sushiman1111 View Post

                  And you're reading a lot into my post that simply isn't there.

                  Look, the OP asked if bad English turns you off a website. My answer is yes. Many of the other people's answers have also been yes. That shows me that, even though there are also a lot of people who don't particularly care about spelling, grammar and so on, someone who has bad English on their website should make an effort to get it right. No linguistic elitism here, just plain dollars and cents. Bad grammar/spelling turns off a large number of potential customers. Ignoring it is like saying you shouldn't learn copywriting because some people don't care about it. Fine, but you're leaving money on the table.

                  After 20+ years in language teaching, I can confidently say that over 90% of the errors a native speaker makes in a case like publishing a webpage will be due to a simple lack of proof-reading. So seeing errors on a website makes me think the whole thing (including the product) will be slipshod. Are there some people out there who simply don't have the language skills to get the job done? Definitely. Those people should find some friends who do and have them look at the copy. No friends? Hire a pro. No money? Go to your local library and get some of the librarians to help you out. They'll be thrilled. No library? Post on here and ask for help, or better yet, find an English forum and do it there. Go look up your old high school English teacher. Etc.

                  There are options available to pretty much everyone, especially when "everyone" has a computer and internet connection and thus can post a question on this forum in the first place.
                  This is the fun about communication. Grammar and spelling are a part of the package, by no means the whole.

                  I am reading a lot in what you say based on the cards you play to reinforce your message. Why you bring up your background? To force compliance under the "authority"? Am I reading too much? Please tell me why then. Illustrate me.

                  We can get out of the dog fight and maybe move to something more interesting, if you are up to change the game.

                  There are many elements playing here. I see some, there are probably others.

                  The first one is what type of website people imagine when answering the question.

                  I am an information sponge, so I seek information websites. In this case, the deal breaker for me is regurgitated information and fluff, no matter how well written it is. When buying items, I prefer artists and artisans over mass production pieces.This is why I don´t use formal packaging as a parameter to stop me.

                  So what sites do you have in mind?

                  The second element is the target market.

                  The look and feel of a website will pre-select the customers. The wording, the art, the navigation, they all tie up to create an environment that will attract certain public and reject others. It does not leave money on the table, it is a natural and wanted pre-selection process designed by businesses to attract and retain the target market.

                  So lets suppose that someone who has a particular way of communicating hires a copywriter to do the sales copy. The buyers will make assumptions about the product based on the copy, the result is massive refunds when the expectations are not met. I am not talking by ear here, I lived it with a client. It was not the sales copy though, they were clouds to be given for free during the pre-launch.

                  Businesses have personalities too. And all means of communication need to be tied up with the values they want to express for the business. This is done purposely in big corp world, but I do think it is interesting for the small business as well. Lack of coherence in the communication as a big deal breaker. The guy who called my attention to this is Steve Mann. He is well known in the big corporations´ world as image and social media expert. He did the ground research in Twitter for enterprises to use the platform efficiently.

                  Then you have the assumption of the business model.

                  Those who test things will tell you that sometimes the uglier the better. In the old days of adsense, some purposely created ugly and un-readable sites so the visitor had only one thing to do: click on the ads.

                  Google cracked on these sites later and de-index them in mass. Meantime they received the checks via Fedex for long enough to get in the millionaire band.

                  In corporate websites, it is reasonable to expect them to be spotless. Because efficiency is part of their corporate message, the business personality. What lies behind, in my opinion, is coherence (yet again).

                  There are two more points I think worth addressing.

                  One is the message to those reading, those trying to learn business and good practices.

                  The big players don´t care about perfection before launching, actually to seek perfection is considered a self defeating behavior.

                  If someone is a small entrepreneur, by all means need to get the product out there fast, and work from there. Wait to get it perfect is to shoot your own foot.

                  Do they have to come back and fix typos, grammar, art? Absolutely.

                  Do they have to wait until perfect before launching? I do not recommend it. But to each its own.

                  The second is the laziness and stiffness of the reader.

                  As an entrepreneur, I don´t want to deal with customers who can´t figure out anything by themselves and get paralyzed by a typo. Chances are, they will get paralyzed by anything out of their comfort zone; those are usually challenged to learn anything new. They want to be spoon fed. Who want a client like that? I don´t.

                  Good luck with your upcoming WSO, you will see soon enough what I mean.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Sushiman1111
                    Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

                    I am reading a lot in what you say based on the cards you play to reinforce your message. Why you bring up your background? To force compliance under the "authority"? Am I reading too much? Please tell me why then. Illustrate me.
                    Yes, you're reading too much into it. When Kindsvater says something about a legal issue, does the fact that he's a lawyer force people to agree with him? Of course not. But if he lets them know his training and specialty, they might want to take his advice a little more seriously.

                    We can get out of the dog fight and maybe move to something more interesting, if you are up to change the game.
                    A "fight" would imply that we were both attacking each other. Something that I have not done.

                    I honestly don't know why my initial post got under your skin the way it did. I was talking at least as much to Paul (that Batter of Woms) as I was to you. He responded in good humor, as did I, and that was pretty much the end of it. But you got pissed off. :confused: Just because I disagree with something you say doesn't mean I'm fighting with you.

                    Anyway... As for the bulk of your post, of course there are always going to be specific exceptions. You would probably want typos, cursing and what-not on a site that sold backstage passes to rap concerts. I read the OP as a general question and answered in a general fashion. If you don't agree with my position, fine. Maybe you're right, and maybe I am. I'm sure the OP can decide for himself which way he wants to go.

                    Good luck with your upcoming WSO, you will see soon enough what I mean.
                    I take it you've done a few WSOs yourself. Would you be invoking "authority" here, based on that experience?

                    Regardless, in all seriousness, I will take whatever advice you might have on the subject to heart.
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                • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
                  [QUOTE=Sushiman1111;7833260
                  So seeing errors on a website makes me think the whole thing (including the product) will be slipshod.[/QUOTE]

                  You can think that if you like, and you could be right, but I believe you are almost as likely to be wrong. Two of my favorite marketers (Jason Fladlien and Maria Gudelis) are very fond of the saying "money loves speed", largely, I believe, to encourage perfectionists to loosen up and focus on getting good, imperfect content done.

                  I have found grammar mistakes that I probably would have caught, if the material was mine, in the work of the great Jay Abraham. I would trade my perfectionism for his incredible ability to create fantastic content any day, regardless of it's imperfections. As far as I can tell, there are no "9 billion dollar" people (like Jay), in the grammar perfection niche.

                  Like you said, there is always a way to clean up the grammar in anything one writes. But perhaps going to the library to avoid offending any perfectionists' sensibilities is less of a priority for some folks than creating as much content that improves lives as they possibly can. If I had to choose between Jay putting out one more great book and going through all his past content with a red marker...I think you can guess the rest.

                  Just because you can be more perfect than you are at something as inconsequential as making sure you never said "your" when you meant "you're", doesn't mean such corrections would be the best use of your time, for yourself or your audience.
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            • Profile picture of the author donza
              I'm the perfect example of a small business the grammar nazis would unfairly punish for bad grammar.

              I have started my own stone, tile and decorative concrete care business and will, due to lack of funds, be writing my own website copy. There will be errors...
              One of my competitors is a franchise. and their site is slick, the grammar perfect.

              Based on the franchise's superior writing standard no doubt the grammar nazis would prefer to use the franchise's services over mine. Idiots.

              The franchisees, who need no previous experience in the industry, do three days training and are then told to go home and practise on their friends ánd relative's houses before unleashing themselves on the general public.

              I, on the other hand, have twenty years experience and impeccable testimonials to the quality of my workmanship, character and knowledge.


              Cheers Don
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  • Profile picture of the author thedanbrown
    If there's just a little slang I don't think it's a big deal (I guess depending on the niche) but if it's really bad and obviously someone who just threw it in a translator I DEFINITELY wouldn't buy
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    • Profile picture of the author mentalfloss
      Grammer could be costing me sales on my membership site, "How to speak gooder english."
      I axed a guru and he said, "There, their.
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  • Profile picture of the author MrDay
    It dont matter to me.

    I can tell if I can trust someone or not by doing research before I buy from them. If you give me what I need and your grammar sucks, cool by me.

    ShoeMoney is one of the most successful and even one of the richest online marketers out there.

    But.....

    Have you ever read any of his actual posts that he wrote himself?

    He dont really care about proper grammar as long as the message gets through.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Originally Posted by MrDay View Post


      ShoeMoney is one of the most successful and even one of the richest online marketers out there.

      But.....

      Have you ever read any of his actual posts that he wrote himself?

      He dont really care about proper grammar as long as the message gets through.
      He might not care, but there are many people that will and the message will be missed by those people for the simple fact they won't be willing to read it.

      Not that he should be singled out of course. I actually know little about him.

      Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    Honestly I don't understand why people hate bad grammar so much, does it hurt business? of course it does. My grammar is atrocious, but that doesn't stop me from paying my bills, my taxes, and provide for my family.

    The world wide net is global, so grammar and bad English is to be expected. Many people see bad grammar as a deal breaker, and that is fine. I have sold websites to people in India, China, you name it I probably sold there. There was always a language barrier, but we all spoke the same language of money. I understood enough of the bad grammar to know I was closing the deal.

    I remember when was I was a young adult, I had an Italian landlord who didn't speak a lick of English. I spoke to him in Spanish and he in Italian, and it was close enough that we understood each other. The world is bigger than your back yard, so you have to adapt. Like I said my grammar is terrible, but that doesn't stop me from posting or buying from people with bad grammar. Now if someone is trying to sell me a program on grammar and he has bad grammar himself, then yea I would have a problem.

    Not everybody speaks the same language or has the same education, so bad grammar is to be expected. Those of you who say that you won't buy from people with bad grammar, you bring up a valid point. At the same time, I doubt you will not try and get a deal done or turn down money, because someone has bad grammar



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    But I knew the one thing I might regret is not ever having tried. "

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  • Profile picture of the author Farish
    I do a lot of proposals. My grammar is terrible. I have lots of problems with past and present tense and I can never fix it. Just last year I tried reading books on fixing my grammar and one of the reasons why I started a blog was to get better at writing.

    I have my wife read and correct anything I have important to write to a client.

    Grammar has never ruined my chances on getting business because my reputation as a problem solver procedes me.

    I can't overcome this issue of how bad my writing can be.

    All I can do is become better at everything I specialize in so when a company needs me they hire me regardless of how bad my email was written.

    9 times out of 10 they don't even read the whole proposal just the final numbers for the job that needs to be done.
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  • Profile picture of the author higherluv
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    Depends how bad. Some instances of "bad" grammar are on pages whereby if you read them, it still sounds like a well-written page. I prefer to call this "alternative" grammar.

    Sometimes this type of grammar is used to reinforce a point. OK for that purpose.

    Conversely, if the page looks like they didn't proofread, or if it looks like it was made by someone who is 25% fluent in English, then it's a ticket for me to visit a better site.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
    The way that you use affect and effect affects how I think of you and can make your communication much less effective. Effectively, when you mix up affect and effect, it has the effect of affecting the effect of your intelligence. This is no affectation. It's a fact!

    Michelle
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Michelle,
      The way that you use affect and effect
      "If you wish to effect change, you must adopt a constructive affect."

      Drives the wombats crazy.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Here's my algorithm I use in these situations:

    Code:
    If bad_grammar then ignore
    If bad_grammar but good_content* or good_recommendations then ignore grammar mistakes and proceed regardless**
    I take this approach regardless of the medium (online, offline) and regardless of the formality of the encounter.

    *When I bother to read it. I admit, you can lose a lot of great advice this way, but hey, you can lose a lot of time reading text filled with bad grammar and syntax, only to find out it was in vain.
    **Because they are part of the package, and I don't eat the package, I eat what it's inside.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pete Lauder
    I would hate to have to translate everything, each way, in my everyday online life, but some people do, and I salute their efforts.

    The language is still developing, and, slowly, but surely, the English speaking language is converging. Books from 100 years ago are notoriously difficult to read.

    In the meantime, our websites are our showroom windows, and, as such, should be constructed with the highest degree of professionalism, setting us apart from, and above, our competitors.

    I have had those spelling robots, from years ago, sending automated messages, that they have found 14 spelling mistakes, and grammatical errors on your site, so, buy my software, you low life.

    It turned out that I had no errors, but the US English bot took a dislike to British English, and my writing style.

    I also find it highly frustrating, when writing in MS Word, that Microsoft feels that articles are not grammatically correct, until they are stuffed full of semicolons, something that is really quite rare, in reality.

    So, I welcome any changes, where we can all read, and write, as one language, and that my advice, no, my advise, no, I hope that my opinion helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    / Start Formula

    Grammer
    Grammar

    Enter the woodshed.

    Result = Wombat?

    End Formula \

    Jeffery 100% :-)

    Edited. Read it a day later and saw that it could be misunderstood. My bad and apologies.
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  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?
    That truly depends on what the whole site is about. If it is say, a scientific site or an author's site, it might.

    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?
    Not necessarily. If they are offering something I really want and have the best price that I can find, I'm buying. No woman can pass up a good sale.

    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    The only way it would cause me to bypass it would be if the mistakes were innumerable. Having been an editor in the past, those things really jump off the page for me but I generally just quickly think, oops, they made a mistake or that should be...

    If my thought processes are continually interrupted which those fleeting thoughts, then I really find it difficult to comprehend what I'm reading and just move on. Unless of course, it presents a fun challenge for me as Paul's following post:

    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Indeed. Here's a related old chestnut. Source unknown...

    Eye halve a spelling chequer
    It came with my pea sea
    It plainly marques four my revue
    Miss steaks eye kin knot sea
    Eye strike a key and type a word
    And weight four it two say
    Weather eye am wrong oar write
    It shows me strait a weigh
    As soon as a mist ache is maid
    It nose bee four two long
    And eye can put the error rite
    Its rare lea ever wrong
    Eye have run this poem threw it
    am shore your pleased two no
    Its letter perfect awl the weigh
    My chequer tolled me sew

    I read the whole thing and enjoyed every bit of it!

    Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author HarmonicNet
    In my own experience I can tell you that it matters a lot. If your (not you're) copy's grammar manages to give me a face-palm moment (e.g. spraying your paragraphs with random commas everywhere to the point where I start getting a headache or not knowing its from it's) I'm out, I'm done - tab closed.

    To me bad grammar screams "amateur" from the rooftops, which is why I go to such pains to eliminate it. Of course being of this generation, grown soft from using Microsoft Word's spell check, I often make remedial mistakes especially when I'm on a roll and banging out copy. That's why it's so important to proofread stuff and why I always need to get at least a second set of eyes on any important content. (I'm skipping that for this post though :p )

    Another pet peeve of mine - and it's rampant throughout the industry - is poor localisation / localization. US English instead of UK English and vice versa, company literature or web copy which has been crudely translated, using technical writers for sales pages, rather than copywriters, and so on. And it's (not its) everywhere, not just for people like us, I'm talking large multinational corporations like Toyota making the kind of slipshod, juvenile grammar mistakes you'd expect from Ralf Wiggum.

    But the difference is Toyota can get away with it, because they're (not their) Toyota. If you're an independent company or individual, however, you invariably don't have those decades of global brand recognition and trust behind you. So you need to watch your P's and Q's.
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    • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
      Originally Posted by HarmonicNet View Post

      In my own experience I can tell you that it matters a lot. If your (not you're) copy's grammar manages to give me a face-palm moment (e.g. spraying your paragraphs with random commas everywhere to the point where I start getting a headache or not knowing its from it's) I'm out, I'm done - tab closed.

      To me bad grammar screams "amateur" from the rooftops, which is why I go to such pains to eliminate it. Of course being of this generation, grown soft from using Microsoft Word's spell check, I often make remedial mistakes especially when I'm on a roll and banging out copy. That's why it's so important to proofread stuff and why I always need to get at least a second set of eyes on any important content. (I'm skipping that for this post though :p )

      Another pet peeve of mine - and it's rampant throughout the industry - is poor localisation / localization. US English instead of UK English and vice versa, company literature or web copy which has been crudely translated, using technical writers for sales pages, rather than copywriters, and so on. And it's (not its) everywhere, not just for people like us, I'm talking large multinational corporations like Toyota making the kind of slipshod, juvenile grammar mistakes you'd expect from Ralf Wiggum.

      But the difference is Toyota can get away with it, because they're (not their) Toyota. If you're an independent company or individual, however, you invariably don't have those decades of global brand recognition and trust behind you. So you need to watch your P's and Q's.
      I only spotted two small ones in there. Hardly worth 'wombatting', I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author davcon
    Yes it does matter when it comes to sales. If your asking someone for their money you need to look professional in doing so. It's very important
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  • Profile picture of the author jmalecha51
    It's fun to just get the point across in any way for expression. But if your trying to be professional.. you might want to have good grammar.
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  • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    Write like you want to write. Just a few grammar mistakes add personaility to your copy. (see what I did there? )
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    First impression matters a lot.

    Every potential new website i visit stand a 50/50 chance,
    bad English reduces the mark to 30/70.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    It affects me a great deal if it is an info product.

    How can i trust a person to give me good info on something, if they don't know good grammar? I may be a little prejudice, but I am apt to click away if I see really bad grammar.

    If it is just a thing or two, then i might not be so quick. But stupid crap like there instead of their, and things like that will turn me off real quick.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
    The thing that annoys the heck out of me is the use of 'your' (belongs to you) instead of 'you're' (you are ) and 'there' (over there) instead of 'their' (belongs to them) - there are a few of these in this thread.

    I appreciate that some people are not using their first language but it would make sense to have a native speaker look over any website copy before publication.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    My way to make it online is to be my self, i make a ton of mistakes with grammar and spelling but I've now been running my online business for years and sometimes I look back at some of my earlier sites, - my websites was full of crap, full of spelling errors, and full of ads. No Personlization, no quality etc etc.. Well, my website is still full of spelling mistakes, (I'm from Sweden) my english grammar is far from good - full of errors and I'm not the worlds best writer nor the worlds best site designer, but I'm not afraid to make mistakes.

    Today, people know like and trust me, they know that I'm not just another "net marketing machine" they know that I'm not perfect and they know that my english grammar is far from good but they are still here!! They are still waiting for my next news update!! This is the way for me to be different, this is my way to brand myself and it works... i think.. =)

    - Do you know how much feedback I get from my vivsitors, how much feedback I get from people thanking me for being my self, thanking me for making mistakes.. thanking me for this website?.. A ton of emails even thou this site is just a few weeks old when im writing this.... The feedback has been incredible..Everything I've just said comes down to one statement: Be real, Be yourself and don�t be afraid to make mistakes. You dont have to be perfect!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sunitha07
    Banned
    This post has been edited by a moderator: Do not copy content from other websites and paste it in your posts here.
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    • Profile picture of the author HarmonicNet
      Some people need to SERIOUSLY get a life. Totally seriously.
      ...And a proofreader too though, c'mon. A life and a proofreader then we'll all be happy.
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  • Profile picture of the author jayatana
    Good grammar will assist people from misunderstanding of the sentences.
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
    It depends on the site.

    Your question is pretty broad.

    Consider a website where grammar is not important? If someone knows their stuff, then I don't care how they spell, speak, etc. so long as I can communicate with them.

    Think about a graphic designer, musician, etc.

    I personally failed nearly every English class I took in high school. I mispell things all the time (did you catch the irony in the spelling?) but that's not what makes someone knowledgeable, unless of course they are a writer or something of the sort.
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  • Profile picture of the author maddyy
    Yes to an extent...... because what IS GRAMMAR?
    The IM industry includes people from all over the world. I am personally british myself but I have worked with some TOP IMers who have POOR but not TERRIBLE grammar... But they have made it to the top, know all the tricks... One shoudl be judged on lamguage if it is a niche the person is in (language).. but in general terms... No...

    #FoodForThought
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    • Profile picture of the author TheEye
      I have a question.

      About a year ago I read a sales page. From reading it I knew I wanted the information the person had.

      The person who wrote the report was from India. I had a lot of trouble reading the document because of the grammar and words that he used.

      About a quarter of the way through the report, I decided I would read it aloud in an Indian accent. The document then became easy to read. The grammar and wording then flowed almost poetically.

      The writer was obviously very intelligent, very knowledgeable and his written English was as he spoke it.

      Any English speaker from India would not have had any problem with understanding his writing.

      So is his grammar bad because I initially had trouble reading it?

      Or is it outstandingly good because when I made the effort to understand him, his writing was almost poetic?
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      • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
        Originally Posted by TheEye View Post

        So is his grammar bad because I initially had trouble reading it?

        Or is it outstandingly good because when I made the effort to understand him, his writing was almost poetic?
        Odd question! English grammar is either right or it is wrong. It is an exact science.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Originally Posted by BackLinkiT View Post

          Odd question! English grammar is either right or it is wrong. It is an exact science.
          This is possibly the most incorrect statement in this whole thread.
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          • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            This is possibly the most incorrect statement in this whole thread.
            You'll have to explain that one for me, Paul. You've lost me!
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            • Profile picture of the author TheEye
              Originally Posted by BackLinkiT View Post

              You'll have to explain that one for me, Paul. You've lost me!
              The original purpose of grammar was to give a reader an idea of how the original speech was spoken when all the reader had was words on a page.

              A comma was a short pause, a semi colon was a longer pause, a colon longer still and a full stop an even longer pause.

              The question mark signified that a question is being asked. An exclamation mark is an indicator that a statement has been made in a raised voice.

              Paragraphs denoted that the speaker had gone onto another idea.

              Sentence structure is for clarity of the message.

              As the spoken language changes, the grammar must change or it becomes useless.
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              • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
                Originally Posted by TheEye View Post

                The original purpose of grammar was to give a reader an idea of how the original speech was spoken when all the reader had was words on a page.

                A comma was a short pause, a semi colon was a longer pause, a colon longer still and a full stop an even longer pause.

                The question mark signified that a question is being asked. An exclamation mark is an indicator that a statement has been made in a raised voice.

                Paragraphs denoted that the speaker had gone onto another idea.

                Sentence structure is for clarity of the message.

                As the spoken language changes, the grammar must change or it becomes useless.
                I don't disagree with any of this but don't understand how it has any bearing on my assertion that English grammar is either right or wrong.
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                • Profile picture of the author TheEye
                  Originally Posted by BackLinkiT View Post

                  I don't disagree with any of this but don't understand how it has any bearing on my assertion that English grammar is either right or wrong.
                  Grammar is there to clarify what has been said (or written). It tries to pigeon hole all the aspects of speech into a limited number of grammar conventions.

                  If you listen to someone with a Boston accent say something and a Texan say the same idea. The words selection would change slightly, and the phrasing (pauses) would change slightly.

                  If everybody speaking English used the same accent and rhythm then you could have concrete rules of grammar (at least until things started to change).

                  Until then grammar usage will vary from individual to individual to reflect the individual way that people speak.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
                    Bad grammar is "bad".

                    It's not "good" for any kind of business.

                    If anything is "bad" then it should be improved.
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            • Profile picture of the author cyberdad
              TheEye, BackLinkiT, Paul Myers, and Frank Donovan all make interesting points, but, IMHO, BackLinkiT is correct in his statement, "English grammar is either right or it is wrong. It is an exact science." That's why we have college courses and volumes of books dedicated to English grammar.
              Without getting into the realm of elitism, don't confuse colloquial, conversational, or informal forms of grammar with "bad" grammar, not to mention "style."
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Originally Posted by BackLinkiT View Post

              You'll have to explain that one for me, Paul. You've lost me!
              Grammar is neither exact nor a science.

              Grammar is a set of constantly mutating social conventions. The belief that such a set of conventions might hold the rank of science is what fuels the arrogance of wombats, and other obsessive-compulsives.

              Now, if you had described it as a precise discipline, I might have kept my tongue.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
                You're right, Paul. 'Precise discipline' is a far better description!
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by BackLinkiT View Post

          English grammar is either right or it is wrong. It is an exact science.
          Interesting statement. Using that logic, either James Joyce or Jane Austen, to pick two writers at random, must have had their English grammar horribly wrong.

          Which one was it?
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          • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
            Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

            Interesting statement. Using that logic, either James Joyce or Jane Austen, to pick two writers at random, must have had their English grammar horribly wrong.

            Which one was it?
            Not sure I understand your point. Two different authors can do things in two different ways and still both be right.
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            • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
              Originally Posted by BackLinkiT View Post

              Not sure I understand your point. Two different authors can do things in two different ways and still both be right.
              Joyce is a very special case, I think... he used the "Stream of consciousness" narrative mode. Essentially, the guy tried to get in the character´s head and write from there.

              An example from Ulysses, Molly seeks sleep:

              a quarter after what an unearthly hour I suppose theyre just getting up in China now combing out their pigtails for the day well soon have the nuns ringing the angelus theyve nobody coming in to spoil their sleep except an odd priest or two for his night office or the alarmlock next door at cockshout clattering the brain out of itself let me see if I can doze off 1 2 3 4 5 what kind of flowers are those they invented like the stars the wallpaper in Lombard street was much nicer the apron he gave me was like that something only I only wore it twice better lower this lamp and try again so that I can get up early (1922, rpt. Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1986, p. 642).

              Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_...narrative_mode)

              Not my favorite writer.

              Why Frank used Jane Austen to compare him? I don´t know. Her prose has structure, but that goes for almost everyone else...
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              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez View Post

                Why Frank used Jane Austen to compare him? I don´t know. Her prose has structure, but that goes for almost everyone else...
                Sandra, I just chose two writers with very different styles to illustrate that there's no such thing as "right" or "wrong" in grammar.

                At best, what we call "correct" grammar is simply whatever set of standards are most commonly agreed at any given moment. Its rules are fluid and change with the times.

                Joyce broke most of the rules of grammar in use at his time, but he wasn't "wrong". Just different.

                Language, of which grammar is merely a tool, is no more an exact science than painting.


                Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author Sandra Martinez
                  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                  Sandra, I just chose two writers with very different styles to illustrate that there's no such thing as "right" or "wrong" in grammar.

                  At best, what we call "correct" grammar is simply whatever set of standards are most commonly agreed at any given moment. Its rules are fluid and change with the times.

                  Joyce broke most of the rules of grammar in use at his time, but he wasn't "wrong". Just different.

                  Language, of which grammar is merely a tool, is no more an exact science than painting.


                  Frank
                  Thanks for the clarification. I thought it might be the case, but I don´t know both authors enough to be sure there were not deeper implications.

                  I noticed something interesting related with grammar while taking the challenge of writing fiction in English (a crazy thing to do, I tell ya...).

                  In Spanish, semicolons are commonly used. In formal papers in English, it is very much alive too. The first articles I ever wrote in English were for scientific publications. To make a long story short: I write using semicolons.

                  Charles saw the book and told me to lose them for good, that in common English they are not used anymore.

                  Funny.

                  Sandra
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                  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                    Originally Posted by Sandra Martinez
                    In Spanish semicolons are commonly used. In formal papers in English, it is very much alive too. The first articles I ever wrote in English were for scientific publications. To make a long story short: I write using semicolons.
                    Charles saw the book and told me to lose them for good, that in common English they are not used anymore.
                    Yes, funny. I think semicolons still have their place, but it's fair to say the average reader probably doesn't care. Although most may not be as vociferously against their use as Kurt Vonnegut seemed to be. I quote:

                    Here is a lesson in creative writing. First rule: Do not use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing. All they do is show you've been to college”.



                    Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author cyberdad
    VERY interesting comments on this topic. Thanks for posting the question.
    Having come from a training background in a corporate environment, I realize there are two components to any site: content and presentation. It's sort of like eating at a restaurant, and reminds me of an old saying, "You eat with your eyes before you eat with your mouth." The presentation is the way the meal (or site) looks, the content is how the food tastes (or what the site is offering). In a restaurant, when the dish is set before you, your eyes make a judgment on the quality of the food before you even taste it. It's the same with a site. The presentation is the first impression, that is why so much effort is put into how the site looks (fonts, colors, white space, graphics, etc.).
    And, just to be nit-picky, I suspect you are really asking about grammar and spelling (two different things).
    But to answer your questions, I can be forgiving regarding both if they are minor violations. After all, there are regional and national differences in both spelling and grammar that should be taken into consideration. Beyond that, I figure if the writer doesn't make the effort to put up a quality site, how can I feel confident they are making a stronger effort to put out a quality product?
    And, yes, extremely bad grammar and/or spelling has motivated me to leave the site without buying.
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  • Profile picture of the author cimsols
    To me it depends on where the person lives. If he or shes lives outside of the Unites States you really can't be too critical. Now on the other hand... if the business is clearly here in the US, then they should be using proper English grammar.
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  • Profile picture of the author +newportone
    If I read something with grammatical errors and I know that the origin is US, UK, AU, NZ, CA or other country where English is used commonly I stop and usually go no further.
    (Believe it or not, I have even found auto responder landing pages with blatant errors.)
    If the website author is from a country where English is not common I ignore it altogether.
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  • Profile picture of the author Beatrice
    Hi!

    If the site is full of grammatical errors, to me it is an instant turn-off and I would not purchase a product from this site. On the other hand if it is just the odd mistake, I would be a lot more forgiving.
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  • Profile picture of the author Soubhik
    Of course bad grammar discourages anyone to stop buying! It doesn't have to be really bad. If the sentences are written in a way that makes it sound nonsensical or foolish it does enough. Buyers need to see trust before they buy something and so good quality content is way important!

    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
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  • Profile picture of the author khooster1
    Hottest thread in WF is "Grammar"..
    Can't believe it!!
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  • Profile picture of the author shawoon98
    176 Posts in this thread give me a hint that there is a hidden niche called
    "English Grammar for Warriors" or perhaps,
    "English Grammar IMers"

    I'm gonna conduct some research now now....:p
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Bumstead
    "Mayonnaise a lot of replies in here..."


    Get it? Get it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by Nathan Bumstead View Post

      "Mayonnaise a lot of replies in here..."


      Get it? Get it?
      I do get it. Does that mean I "just might be a redneck..."?
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      • Profile picture of the author Nathan Bumstead
        Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

        I do get it. Does that mean I "just might be a redneck..."?
        Absolutely! I thought it was fitting.

        For everyone else, here is the progression in bad grammar:

        -Man, there are a lot of replies in here.

        -Man, they's a lot of replies in here.

        -Mayonnaise a lot of replies in here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Susan A
    I think I will be offended with careless grammar, any well educated people will be too. so if your site require professionalism image, you should be careful with your grammar. but if your site is a kind of funny image or story, or any kind of niche that requires friendly conversation, I think you are doing okay with a casual or spoken grammar. I myself prefer a correct grammar site.
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  • Profile picture of the author mlmdiver
    lol whatever it takes
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  • Profile picture of the author J50
    I think it does have negative impact on conversion rates. But I'm in a niche were excellent English skills does matter though. So to me it does matter, but only in an monetary sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author ptcrefko
    It really depends on how you provide information. Even you have a perfect grammar, but you didn't have a perfect information to your readers, no one will read your content. For me as long as you provide good information, whether you suck on grammar and punctuation, you can make money.

    Use your common sense. How many readers do you think has a perfect grammar?. Yes some readers will criticize you for your grammar, but many will not. I don't have a perfect grammar, but I make money. Because, I provide a solution rather than questioning my grammar. Its about the value you provide and not about the your grammar and punctuation. As long as your site is readable, don't be afraid. Success come if you are willing to take the risk.

    Note English is widely used language in the web, but it doesn't mean that all readers has a perfect English when they read.
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  • Profile picture of the author cheehien
    Hey, i really do not care the grammar, as long as we can understood, then is fine. But bear in mind that some grammar mistake will caused misunderstanding...
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  • Profile picture of the author omarasl
    it is nice topic to be discussed , for me (English is not my firs language ) the grammar is not very important unless the product is not require that , for example if I want to buy some articles , I will close the site immediately when I recognize the first mistake
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  • Profile picture of the author markw5802
    Yes because this is a direct reflection on you as a professional and it shows your lack of attention to detail which translates to the way you will pay attention to your clients needs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Slapshot
      Originally Posted by markw5802 View Post

      Yes because this is a direct reflection on you as a professional and it shows your lack of attention to detail which translates to the way you will pay attention to your clients needs.
      I agree and couldn't have said it better myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author bwh1
    I didn't hire a proofreader for this post so sorry for any mistakes.

    I have a question to all the Professors in here.

    Do we talk about British English or US English here?? Does that even matter when it comes to grammar? (I never studied English, forgive me)

    I can agree to have perfect grammar whenever it comes to SALES material, where the copy has to transmit trust and convert a visitor into a buyer. If that's really bad written it will definitely hurt your sales from people from the US, UK etc...

    But in case of a video where someone is explaining something to me, it's more important to have a good audio IMO and a fairly good pronunciation, no slang words and a good speed.

    LOL, I remember a guy from Scotland which offered a free video tutorial as a WSO - I understood maybe half - could be that his English in substance was perfect, don't know.

    Funny is that we still have to pay a MD receipt after 9 out of 10 hate bad grammar :-)
    they solve problems so who cares.

    G.
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  • Profile picture of the author manolo2
    I agree with most above bad grammer is a complete No No especially now that you can get software or proff readers. For me 1 or 2 errors is the absolute maximum
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      I agree with most of the above. Bad grammar is a complete No-No, especially now that you can get software or proofreaders. For me, 1 or 2 errors is the absolute maximum.
      Corrections (9 of them) in pink. Yet another example supporting the postulate that the most emphatic wombats are also the worst grammarians.
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      • Profile picture of the author onSubie
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Corrections (9 of them) in pink. Yet another example supporting the postulate that the most emphatic wombats are also the worst grammarians.
        I counted 10 pink corrections.

        Although, I might argue that "I agree with most above" is not grammatically incorrect but more akin to "I agree with most here".

        But I have little to no discipline, let alone precise.
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    • Profile picture of the author bwh1
      Originally Posted by manolo2 View Post

      I agree with most above bad grammer is a complete No No especially now that you can get software or proff readers. For me 1 or 2 errors is the absolute maximum
      They did not work I suppose:confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author Ed Holden


    If I was hungry then I would still buy a pie - I wouldn't be happy about it though.
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    • Profile picture of the author onSubie
      Originally Posted by Ed Holden View Post

      If I was hungry then I would still buy a pie - I wouldn't be happy about it though.

      Okay, in the whole thread this made me laugh out loud (and made a pretty big point).

      "Excuse me sir, is something wrong with your pie?"

      "Oh no, it's delicious. But your sign is really upsetting me."

      :p
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    • Profile picture of the author bwh1
      Originally Posted by Ed Holden View Post



      If I was hungry then I would still buy a pie - I wouldn't be happy about it though.
      Hilarious, I usually relate beer with pie's and not burgers but wth

      Some more for cheering up the crowd

      https://www.google.com/search?q=the+...h=683#imgdii=_

      I specially love this one
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        I might argue that "I agree with most above" is not grammatically incorrect but more akin to "I agree with most here".
        You could make a reasonable case for that argument, certainly. Depending on the intent of the poster, you may well be right.

        As for the count, 'proff readers" contained two errors, but was fixed with a single correction.
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        • Profile picture of the author onSubie
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          You could make a reasonable case for that argument, certainly. Depending on the intent of the poster, you may well be right.

          As for the count, 'proff readers" contained two errors, but was fixed with a single correction.
          Yes,why I argue and not assert. But I would say it is more imprecise than incorrect. Say, compared to 'many people don't know the affect grammar can have'.

          I counted:

          I agree with most of(1) the(2) above.(3) B(4)ad gramma(5)r is a complete No-(6)No,(7) especially now that you can get software or proofreaders(8). For me,(9) 1 or 2 errors is the absolute maximum.(10)

          I think you missed a pink period or didn't count the 'No-No' hyphen. Or counted 'of the' as 1.

          Is 'precise' and 'anal' the same thing?



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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

            Or counted 'of the' as 1.
            This.
            Is 'precise' and 'anal' the same thing?
            Nope.
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  • Profile picture of the author highlander11
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?

    Instead of thinking of how it hurts, think how good grammar would improve your site.

    Having good grammar will show the users that you put a lot of time into your site. This builds trust with the users which could increase sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author trinity571
    Well, I do proofreading on Fiverr and have found that standards are not too high generally. What is positive are the people who have enough self awareness to get the work checked before putting it out there. I don't think that anyone can be perfect, so if the content is good, it shouldn't be a deal breaker.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nail Yener
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    It depends on the product/service. If it is a writing/editing/proofreading/translation type of product/service, it may stop me from purchasing from a site. Other than that some typos here or there does not affect my purchasing decisions.
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  • Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    It does affect and it stops 90+% of people from making their first dollar. I suck at it my English is second language. I had people tell me more then 100 time (literally) that my grammer sucks. (spelling two). But I sold millions. Maybe I lost tons that is true. But it can be done don't let the freedom hating grammar Nazi party members stop you. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author midolyon
    Personally, when i come across bad grammar, it usually pushes me away and i wont buy that product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rene Frydson
    Bad grammar turns me off aswell..
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  • Profile picture of the author Trivum
    I haven't been back to this thread for a while. Thanks for all the replies. This has generated more interest than I expected.

    Just to comment on a few points raised earlier.

    1. While it's true that written grammar started as a way to represent spoken language, that's not where it stands today. In fact, probably the easiest way make grammatical mistakes in written English is to try to use grammar to replicate your spoken language.

    I used to teach this stuff, so trust me. I've seen it more times than I can count.

    Many think written grammar is meant primarily to control the "reading voice." But it's not. At least that's not what the "rules" are meant to do.

    The rules of written grammar these days are mostly about controlling ideas. That said, a good writer can certainly use grammar as much as words in order to help control tone and rhythm. As the writer Isaac Babel said, “No iron can stab the heart with such force as a period put just at the right place.”

    The problem is we say things differently at different times to indicate different things. Pauses, for example, are often added in order to bring emphasis to the word in front of it or the word behind it. If you tried inserting a comma in the space where you paused vocally, you'd probably be making a written grammatical mistake at least 50% of the time.

    For example, take this sentence that someone might say with a pause:

    "He wanted to come but ... it just wasn't meant to be."

    If I wrote that out with a comma where my pause was, I'd write:

    He wanted to come but, it just wasn't meant to be.

    Correctly written, however, it should be the following:

    He wanted to come, but it just wasn't meant to be.

    (The Rule: When you join two independent clauses with a coordinating conjunction -- the word "but" in this case -- a comma comes before the coordinating conjunction.)


    2. There are actually different systems of grammar. And so that's why it's easy to find two people writing things in different ways and both considering themselves right.

    That said, even within one system of grammar there is not always complete agreement on what is "correct." That may sound odd, but the truth is that language is always changing, and things come up that either haven't been addressed in the system, or things come up where the correct version now seems antiquated and unusually confusing or stilted. And so someone decides to change it, but others think it shouldn't be changed.

    Another aspect of this is politics. Even though there are often "bodies" or "committees" who try make the rules, they don't always agree. Some on the committee may advocate for one way, and others will advocate for another. Both camps may be equally "influential" in their sphere, and so then you're stuck.

    Of course those types of disagreements normally happen with less common rules, but they do still happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author KattyHowells
    Bad grammar usually points a lack of education or interest. If it's the interest they miss, then I'm not interested in using their services. If it's their education, again, I'm not interested - I've seen a lot of unschooled people making loads of money, but at least they had the decency to hire other people and take care of their image.
    So no matter the reasons behind such mistakes, I tend to interpret them as a lack of dedication for what they are doing, which is serving me, their client.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Bagley
    YES! Thousands of times YES!
    First of all it's a matter of communicating the correct message. Bad grammar could trick you in saying something completely different than what you actually want to say so the message that you want gets lost or even worse, it gets wrong. And then it's a matter of credibility.

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  • Profile picture of the author Challendge
    Bad grammar is a big NO for me because it is unprofessional and shows little attention to their business because they couldn't take the time to ensure that everything was properly written.

    If this is how they handle their grammar then I can guarantee you that it goes well beyond that into other aspects of the business and I would prefer not getting involved in that case.

    Even if the company is based in a foreign country, there are so many tools available that there is no excuse.
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  • Profile picture of the author AbdullahKaragoz
    As BudaBrit answered, if I buy jewelry from Bangladesh, the grammar isn't so important.

    It depends on what you'll sell, and it also depends on the type grammatical errors, or how bad the grammar is.

    If the grammar is too bad that even I can detect the errors and fix it, then it will generally have bad effect on the authority.

    i mean idiotik gramar mis takes as tese have bad affect at you're site autority

    But if the person claims to be expert copywriter, author, content-writer or English teacher then the grammar will be more important.
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  • Profile picture of the author mathewboly
    If your sites speech is not accurate, naturally the reader will take a negative effect on your site. It may some purchasing decrease, than expected.
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  • Profile picture of the author brettb
    Bad grammar is everywhere these days. I've even seen some terrible grammar in The Sims Freeplay. Surely EA can afford a proof reading service on Fiverr!
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  • Profile picture of the author karolk
    Bad grammar can surely turn people off. I did leave some landing pages after seeing the language used, so it does have an impact on your conversions.

    I'd say that the best approach is to always have an editor to check your work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anthony J Namata
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    If they couldn't be bothered to WRITE properly, I couldn't be bothered to DEAL with them. If you can't write properly, hire someone to do it for you! Bad grammar simply says WHO you really are... and that you're not worth it!
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    • Profile picture of the author jamescanz
      Absolutely not. (it doesn't bother me, that is)

      I type like I talk, it's a helluva lot more fun (and quite profitable, too)

      So it doesn't bother me (at all) when someone forgets a leter here and there
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        Originally Posted by jamescanz View Post

        it's a helluva
        It's a what?

        Is this sacrilege?
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  • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
    It does bother me. Probably because I used to proof read for an offline author. Poor spelling and grammar looks sloppy, as if the writer cannot be bothered and has just thrown together a few sentences in a hurry.
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  • Profile picture of the author beasty513
    There is no excuse for bad grammar.

    Tons of software that exist to help.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimbrown123
    Yes, typos and bad grammar in presentations in the website can cause you to lose some of the audience.
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  • I think why human will die on Earth and not get to the stars is conforming, and grammar show is. It's an example. Humans destroy freedom by conforming they make thousands on "no common" sense" rules so millions or billions later can "nit pick" on it and force you to conform even that that they understand what you wanted to convey to them . It's a shame and I know I will be crushed. That is why humanity will die on earth mark my words. It's because you can't let un-perfect humans express themselves un-perfectly! I hope I'm wrong! Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron0669
    Originally Posted by Trivum View Post

    Does bad grammar affect how much you trust a site?

    Would it ever stop you from purchasing something from a site?

    If so, how bad does it have to be?
    It depends on the extent and how often.

    If I read an article that has grammatical errors in only a few places, I think it is alright. But if the errors are in so frequent that makes it hard to read the article, I gets put off and probably will not finish the article.

    The key thing for me is how easy is it to read the article. If the grammatical errors are distracting, it does not help in your marketing process.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gavin Stephenson
    I am "ADD" and "Dyslexic". Well that's what they said... It hasn't stopped me from making a living online. I guess it just can't me unreadable ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    wow is this debate still going on...

    Its been shown that if the message and story is compelling most people read right past gramer infractions... typos are a little different but as long as the copy isn't strewn with them they will normally be ignored as well.

    The grammar cops of course will argue to the day they die that's its a hangable offence
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  • Profile picture of the author eekern
    Do you use WP?

    Install this free plugin: WordPress › CKEditor For WordPress « WordPress Plugins

    It has a good grammar checker build into it !
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  • Profile picture of the author karlmay1980
    Grammar can be forgiven but bad spelling should not be.

    Poor spelling shows laziness as a simple spell check is available on any computer.

    Not everyone uses the right grammar and I think that should be forgiven if you can understand what they are saying.

    It does depend on what a site is selling, but I wouldn't expect a site selling Facebook ads strategies to be grammatically perfect, but a site selling a course on being an author or freelance writer might be different.
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    • Profile picture of the author bdpop
      It does bother me. Not always enough to make me look away, but it does make me think a bit more critically.
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  • Profile picture of the author a2hosting
    A website is a storefront. I view poor grammar as a salesperson who does not speak proper English (or which ever language the website is in). The salesperson could be very skilled, but it's going to be a turn off when you speak with them. Imagine you're buying a big ticket item like a car and the salesperson can't properly construct sentences. It's going to reflect poorly on the dealership.
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