Take down 3 year old, unprofitable copywriting website?

45 replies
Many of you have probably been in this same boat. You spent hundreds of hours planning and building and SEOing, etc. your website. But you just can't put it all together (who can?), so it ends of being a big waste of time and money. What to do? Take it down? Hire someone to make it profitable? If so, who?

My site gets 15 unique visitors per week consistently. No customers. Of course it's copywriting, a starving artist profession if there ever was one (copywriters that claim to make $1000s cannot prove it. Most are, let's say, fakers imo).

I have no optin and not selling any info. I have no desire to put any more time into it.

What to do? Just take it down? Hire someone to make it profitable? I've had it on Afternic for a couple months, for $700 but no interest.
#conversion #copywriting #lead gen #unprofitable #website #year
  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    I am positive it would have been fun had you posted this in The Copywriting Forum . Um, ooo, yeah.
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    • Profile picture of the author NeverTooLate
      Originally Posted by theory expert View Post

      I am positive it would have been fun had you posted this in The Copywriting Forum . Um, ooo, yeah.
      Yah, I can just imagine those fakers would have crucified me. Sorry, I cannot resist cutting copywriters down - sometimes. Why? Just read the intelligence-insulting crap that is most advertising. I feel like I'm living in Bizaro world when I read some of it. Way over the top with supermarket tabloid type exaggerations. Is the average person that gullible? Of course Obama got re-elected, so this probably is an alternate universe.
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

        Yah, I can just imagine those fakers would have crucified me. Sorry, I cannot resist cutting copywriters down - sometimes. Why? Just read the intelligence-insulting crap that is most advertising. I feel like I'm living in Bizaro world when I read some of it. Way over the top with supermarket tabloid type exaggerations. Is the average person that gullible? Of course Obama got re-elected, so this probably is an alternate universe.
        Why would you want to join such a sorry group?

        I guess to change the culture?

        -Ray Edwards
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

        Yah, I can just imagine those fakers would have crucified me. Sorry, I cannot resist cutting copywriters down - sometimes. Why? Just read the intelligence-insulting crap that is most advertising. I feel like I'm living in Bizaro world when I read some of it. Way over the top with supermarket tabloid type exaggerations. Is the average person that gullible? Of course Obama got re-elected, so this probably is an alternate universe.
        Who the hell is the faker here? The guy who has a 3 year old copywriting site that hasn't made a dime or the copywriters in the copywriting forum that make a killing because they are really copywriters, and damned good ones at that.

        You seem to have a need to insult all of the copywriters on this forum to explain your failure. Not a smart way to go. You alone are responsible for your success or failure and bad-mouthing people who are good at what they do doesn't solve your problem.

        Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

        Many people have told me to network. But I can't stand it. It feels so strange, all these SBO's getting together, and pretending. I'm an introvert and don't like chit-chat and socializing much. I should probably have done CPA or something "introvert-able".
        What a shock. Who could have guessed?
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        • Profile picture of the author jpsween88
          Ouch! but true

          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Who the hell is the faker here? The guy who has a 3 year old copywriting site that hasn't made a dime or the copywriters in the copywriting forum that make a killing because they are really copywriters, and damned good ones at that.

          You seem to have a need to insult all of the copywriters on this forum to explain your failure. Not a smart way to go. You alone are responsible for your success or failure and bad-mouthing people who are good at what they do doesn't solve your problem.
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        • Profile picture of the author NeverTooLate
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Who the hell is the faker here? The guy who has a 3 year old copywriting site that hasn't made a dime or the copywriters in the copywriting forum that make a killing because they are really copywriters, and damned good ones at that.

          You seem to have a need to insult all of the copywriters on this forum to explain your failure. Not a smart way to go. You alone are responsible for your success or failure and bad-mouthing people who are good at what they do doesn't solve your problem.
          There we go. Someone finally gave it to me. You'll probably get lots of thanks for doing so. This forum needs stirring up once in a while, doesn't it? Many are thinking my thoughts.

          "Make a killing"? Do you know these people personally? Visited their home? Really know them? Of course, there are some that do well. But only they, their family & friends and loyal customers know how welll they are really doing.
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          • Profile picture of the author NeverTooLate
            Alexa Smith wrote: Please excuse the observation that - as others have rightly implied - there's something "not quite right" about this thread ...

            Not quite right? Why? Because I'm not wearing rose-colored glasses and accepting what people say on this forum and elsewhere is always true? Because I'm being negative? OMG! How could he question the integrity of copywriters! We shouldn't allow any negative opinions on this forum! They hurt my feelings!
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

              Not quite right? Why? Because I'm not wearing rose-colored glasses and accepting what people say on this forum and elsewhere is always true?
              No; more because in a way you're calling them "fakers" at the same time as purportedly asking their advice, here. To me that feels "not quite right". I even seem (for once) to be far from alone in thinking this.
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              • Profile picture of the author NeverTooLate
                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                No; more because in a way you're calling them "fakers" at the same time as purportedly asking their advice, here. To me that feels "not quite right". I even seem (for once) to be far from alone in thinking this.
                OK, I understand better now. Really, I didn't want copywriters' advice. But it has been constructive and appropriate anyways.

                My guess is that any copywriter who did things the way I did would have failed too. The business model of Website - SEO - Adwords - Customers, as the only method, is probably a losing one.

                Should have forced myself to network - online at least, since I don't like local biz events. Depending on the website too of course. Which mine obviously doesn't work.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

            There we go. Someone finally gave it to me. You'll probably get lots of thanks for doing so. This forum needs stirring up once in a while, doesn't it? Many are thinking my thoughts.

            "Make a killing"? Do you know these people personally? Visited their home? Really know them? Of course, there are some that do well. But only they, their family & friends and loyal customers know how welll they are really doing.

            Go smoke another Stogie and get another tatoo Suzanne.
            I wrote it because it's time someone did, not for the thanks. Have I visited their homes? It isn't necessary. I have been some of their customers and I have had extended conversations with some. Some of them are hired by the heavy hitters on a regular basis because they have mad copywriting skills ... heavy hitters like Frank Kern and others. I don't need to see their bank accounts. Some here have reputations that go way beyond this forum.

            Don't assume because you fail that everyone else does.
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          • Profile picture of the author J Bold
            Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

            There we go. Someone finally gave it to me. You'll probably get lots of thanks for doing so. This forum needs stirring up once in a while, doesn't it? Many are thinking my thoughts.

            "Make a killing"? Do you know these people personally? Visited their home? Really know them? Of course, there are some that do well. But only they, their family & friends and loyal customers know how welll they are really doing.


            It's true that some of the guys in the copywriting forum are probably fakers. That's just what happens on forums. There are fakers all over this forum.

            But there are also real people, who make really, really good money. Even millions per year.

            And some of the guys in that copywriting forum really do pull in a lot of money with their skills, and are damn good at what they do.

            Not 100% of them, but several of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author NeverTooLate
      Originally Posted by Bill_Z View Post

      I'm just curious...what did you spend hundreds of hours doing actually?
      Building the site, AdWords, local advertising. I did things the wrong way. Learned HTML/CSS, image editing, etc. Had to learn SEO and AdWords and EVERYTHING all myself, from scratch. Which means I had to study and learn first. That is what took so damn long. It was a huge mistake. But I did not know how or who to hire. The graphic help I did get was mediocre, because I could not afford top talent.

      I'm a poor excuse for an entrepreneur. Wish the bug had never hit me. It cost me BIG TIME in lost time, money, relationships. I vascillate between being positive and being negative and cynical. Between thinking of how I want my life to be, and the way it really is. My reality bites right now.
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  • How come nobody buys from you?

    Where do you advertise?
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  • Profile picture of the author Cyber Star
    If you want to give it up, it is up to you, but don't regret when it can succeed in the hand of someone else. where is your traffic come from anyway? and don't just blame the copywriter, they work is meaningless without traffic. I suggest you to keep trying, looking for alternatives PAID traffic, adjust and evaluate where your traffic comes from.
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    • Profile picture of the author NeverTooLate
      Originally Posted by Cyber Star View Post

      If you want to give it up, it is up to you, but don't regret when it can succeed in the hand of someone else. where is your traffic come from anyway? and don't just blame the copywriter, they work is meaningless without traffic. I suggest you to keep trying, looking for alternatives PAID traffic, adjust and evaluate where your traffic comes from.
      Can I pay someone to do these things? I'm tired of learning stuff that gets me nowhere. It's like college. So much work and so little return!
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  • Profile picture of the author koreancowboy
    Don't give up mate, PM me the link and let me see if I can help you out, one copywriter to another.
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  • Profile picture of the author THK
    I think most copywriters get their gigs through networking. Have you tried that route instead of trying to get clients through SE?

    Tanvir
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    • Profile picture of the author NeverTooLate
      Originally Posted by THK View Post

      I think most copywriters get their gigs through networking. Have you tried that route instead of trying to get clients through SE?

      Tanvir
      Many people have told me to network. But I can't stand it. It feels so strange, all these SBO's getting together, and pretending. I'm an introvert and don't like chit-chat and socializing much. I should probably have done CPA or something "introvert-able".
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    I think it's kind of ironic that you try to sell copywriting and yet you haven't made a sale in 3 years.

    Then again, 15 visitors a week is really, really low. You definitely have a traffic problem even if you don't have a copywriting problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author mountain vision
    Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

    Many of you have probably been in this same boat. You spent hundreds of hours planning and building and SEOing, etc. your website. But you just can't put it all together (who can?), so it ends of being a big waste of time and money. What to do? Take it down? Hire someone to make it profitable? If so, who?

    My site gets 15 unique visitors per week consistently. No customers. Of course it's copywriting, a starving artist profession if there ever was one (copywriters that claim to make $1000s cannot prove it. Most are, let's say, fakers imo).

    I have no optin and not selling any info. I have no desire to put any more time into it.

    What to do? Just take it down? Hire someone to make it profitable? I've had it on Afternic for a couple months, for $700 but no interest.
    Reach out to warriors who need your copywriting skill and do it for free. Build a following and show just what you can do. After a while you can charge for the service and move on from there. Once you have a following there will be many who will gladly pay for your service. The warrior forum is one of the most popular websites on the planet, so whatever you post here will most likely be seen by thousands of people. So approach things with a powerful attitude, for example, I will get you noticed, I will convert sales for you and I'll do it for free for the next month. Show your skill to to the world and do it for free for a little while. Once it is shown you can make things happen for people, you can charge for the service.

    I hope this helps and I hope there is much success in your future,

    mountain vision.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    You're trolling right?

    You have a copywriting website.

    It doesn't get you any sales.

    Instead of taking the blame for your lousy sales copy that doesn't convert... You say that other copywriters are liars because nobody can possibly make $1,000s selling copywriting services because you haven't been able to do it.

    ...

    Well with that kind of logical thinking I'm sure you'll go far in this business.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

      You're trolling right?

      You have a copywriting website.

      It doesn't get you any sales.

      Instead of taking the blame for your lousy sales copy that doesn't convert... You say that other copywriters are liars because nobody can possibly make $1,000s selling copywriting services because you haven't been able to do it.

      ...

      Well with that kind of logical thinking I'm sure you'll go far in this business.

      I know copywriters that make thousands for a single page.
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    • Profile picture of the author NeverTooLate
      Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

      You're trolling right?

      You have a copywriting website.

      It doesn't get you any sales.

      Instead of taking the blame for your lousy sales copy that doesn't convert... You say that other copywriters are liars because nobody can possibly make $1,000s selling copywriting services because you haven't been able to do it.

      ...

      Well with that kind of logical thinking I'm sure you'll go far in this business.
      I don't know what trolling is. But I deserved the rest of your comments. Surprised I didnt get hammered a bit more here.
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    • Profile picture of the author bryansgal
      Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

      You're trolling right?

      You have a copywriting website.

      It doesn't get you any sales.

      Instead of taking the blame for your lousy sales copy that doesn't convert... You say that other copywriters are liars because nobody can possibly make $1,000s selling copywriting services because you haven't been able to do it.

      ...

      Well with that kind of logical thinking I'm sure you'll go far in this business.
      Ouch. He's a copywriter, not an SEO pro. His site doesn't even get traffic to know how it converts. He doesn't have enough traffic to even know. It would take years to get any kind of conversion stats.
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  • Profile picture of the author tac88
    I would outsource the SEO to start getting some traffic!
    What the hell do you expect with 15 visitors a week. I be pissed If I was getting that in a day if I was you!

    You do not know what you have until you test it ! What about a media buy? Or a solo add or some PPC .
    I bet if you write a article a day and submit them to directory's after about 30 day's you should start to see some sales.

    What have you been doing with the time you have invested in the site if you haven't been generating traffic?
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

    Of course it's copywriting, a starving artist profession if there ever was one (copywriters that claim to make $1000s cannot prove it. Most are, let's say, fakers imo).
    That's a strange statement.

    I wonder what kind of copywriting you're doing (if
    you want to make real money as a copywriter you need
    to make your clients real money..in other words do
    direct response copywriting...there's no real money
    in writing articles or filler).

    It's also vitally important that you can write a really
    good sales letter. Copywriters who write weak copy
    rarely get hired at any kind of fee.

    I can say I've never made any substantial money
    off a website although it can be useful to build
    credibility.

    Clients who pay you the substantial fees
    ($5,000+) you need to build a personal relationship
    with, get to know their businesses and come up with
    strategies that demonstrate you know how to use copy
    to help them make money.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

    You spent hundreds of hours planning and building and SEOing, etc. your website.
    Why? I don't think I know any copywriters who've done that, at all.

    You surely weren't intending to try to attract copywriting clients from search engines?!

    Yet here you are, in the Warrior Forum, where the traffic comprises perhaps more potential copywriting clients all together in one place than anywhere else on the entire web, and you don't even have a link to the site in your signature-file?

    Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

    copywriters that claim to make $1000s cannot prove it. Most are, let's say, fakers imo
    I grant you that there are plenty of people around who are pretending to be copywriters (but they're pretty easily identified by anyone with any judgment at all), but real copywriters don't need to prove their incomes to anyone. They have a portfolio of work to show people, genuine testimonials, and regularly returning clients, and marketers are well aware that professional people with years of training and successful experience naturally command high fees for their work.

    Please excuse the observation that - as others have rightly implied - there's something "not quite right" about this thread ...
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

    Many of you have probably been in this same boat. You spent hundreds of hours planning and building and SEOing, etc. your website. But you just can't put it all together (who can?), so it ends of being a big waste of time and money. What to do? Take it down? Hire someone to make it profitable? If so, who?

    My site gets 15 unique visitors per week consistently. No customers. Of course it's copywriting, a starving artist profession if there ever was one (copywriters that claim to make $1000s cannot prove it. Most are, let's say, fakers imo).

    I have no optin and not selling any info. I have no desire to put any more time into it.

    What to do? Just take it down? Hire someone to make it profitable? I've had it on Afternic for a couple months, for $700 but no interest.
    There's so much I could say but I'll try to offer constructive comments only. You're your own worst enemy. The lines I've highlighted tell the whole story. Self defeating beliefs and sour grapes. There are some very mediocre copywriters out there that pull in $100k a year without much trouble. And they don't bust their butts with some silly SEO nonsense either.

    Without seeing your site I'd have to say that the copy isn't up to snuff. Copywriting is salesmanship in print. Even with a modest 1% conversion rate you should be closing a sale every seven or eight days with 15 visitors a day.

    Hire someone to make it profitable? You're kidding right? The people who make websites profitable have a name. It's copywriter.

    I think you should take the site down and find something else to do. But until you change your attitude I'm afraid you'll have very similar results. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Dump it and don't look back.

    Clearly copywriting is not your gig and never will be.

    Don't waste energy trying to justify why it worked or didn't...

    ...to yourself or others - just dump it and move forward.
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    • Profile picture of the author NeverTooLate
      Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod View Post

      Dump it and don't look back.

      Clearly copywriting is not your gig and never will be.

      Don't waste energy trying to justify why it worked or didn't to yourself or others - just dump it and move forward.
      I think you are right. You have to like the "game" of sales, advertising and persuasion and those are negative words to me. I've learned to view them like I view salespeople. Necessary only to the less intelligent folk who cannot or will not research things for themselves.

      You probably cannot be a good copywriter without having enjoyed face to face selling. For me, well, I don't respect salespeople.

      Don't think I would enjoy a copywriters convention - or a copywriters forum for that matter. Bet it would be like an MLM meeting. "Welcome, drink this kool-aid and repeat after me: 'I will believe everything I see and hear'."
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

        I think you are right. You have to like the "game" of sales, advertising and persuasion and those are negative words to me. I've learned to view them like I view salespeople. Necessary only to the less intelligent folk who cannot or will not research things for themselves.

        You probably cannot be a good copywriter without having enjoyed face to face selling. For me, well, I don't respect salespeople.

        Don't think I would enjoy a copywriters convention - or a copywriters forum for that matter. Bet it would be like an MLM meeting. "Welcome, drink this kool-aid and repeat after me: 'I will believe everything I see and hear'."
        Given the above is true, what possessed to attempt to market yourself as a copywriter and why would you be surprised that you weren't successful at it?

        Those are not only bad traits for a copywriter, but for an Internet marketer as well, and undoubtedly a lot of offline positions to boot.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
        Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

        I think you are right. You have to like the "game" of sales, advertising and persuasion and those are negative words to me. I've learned to view them like I view salespeople. Necessary only to the less intelligent folk who cannot or will not research things for themselves.

        You probably cannot be a good copywriter without having enjoyed face to face selling. For me, well, I don't respect salespeople....
        BINGO. There's your problem. You hate what you are trying to become. Definitely a roadblock to success! :-)

        Myself, I've been a copywriter and marketer for 23 years - absolutely love it. I would do nothing else. I wake up most mornings feeling like one of the luckier people on earth, because I get to do this. Really.

        You probably should take your own signature line's advice: ""It's Never Easy, Yet Never Too Late, to Make a Positive Life Change."
        _____

        Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Start offering your copywriting services in places where people are actually looking for copywriting such as the 'warrior for hire' and 'wso' section right here on Warrior Forum. There are tons of other IM / make money / SEO forums over the net with similar forums full of people looking for such services.
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  • Profile picture of the author jpsween88
    Success is measured in many different ways. Don't feel discouraged b/c you havent made any money from your site. You know adwords, you know some seo, ect ... you may have spent time and money but you are more knowledgeable now than you were 7 months ago. Granted I know how hard it is to truly believe in something and invest time & money with no results. But you do have results ... you are getting steady traffic just not creating sales.

    I am sure you have seen that 99% of IM'ers never make a dime well that's mainly bc they get discouraged and quit. If you are truly serious about making this site work. Take the advice from the fellow warriors offering it to you. It took me well over 2 years to start making any "serious" money and by serious I mean $500 a month or so. That's mainly bc I quit and tried so many different projects.

    You can make this work and you can be successful. WF and other IM forums are great places to find people who need copy-writing skills b/c either they dont know English very well or simply can't write intriguing stuff. Make some post, provide some examples, and keep at it - stop adwords and seo its not working for you. It's not you nor your website its your marketing efforts. All business's change over time, maybe its time yours changed for the better
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  • Profile picture of the author codingku
    15 visitors or 60 visitors / month is to low...


    try build more traffics first before trying to think about selling anything...
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Why not post a link to your site and maybe you'll get some constructive criticism on how to tune it up.

    Maybe I'll make you an offer to buy it.
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    • Profile picture of the author theory expert
      Banned
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post


      Maybe I'll make you an offer to buy it.
      I have to believe you are joking. If not I got a bottle of air to sale. Here is a pic:


      The air has never been sold, so, you'll be the first to buy
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    If you ever do take my advice to start advertising your services on here or other forums there's absolutely no way I'd hire you because your attitude is terrible.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Hi NeverTooLate:

    I know that doing CW is not easy. Yeah, it is hard work for me. First, I have to really believe in the product or the service. Otherwise, I cannot sell it. This medium depends on strong passion.

    People often think of themselves as an evangelist that is preaching the virtues of the product they are promoting on a web page. Hard to sell something unless you are a true believer in the item you want to promote. I have found a lot of people will respond to what feels real and not all that marketing crap.

    Try to sell a product that you really believe in. Be honest with your customers need and they will respond to you. Remember, truth has a certain ring.
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  • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
    Originally Posted by NeverTooLate View Post

    Many of you have probably been in this same boat. You spent hundreds of hours planning and building and SEOing, etc. your website. But you just can't put it all together (who can?), so it ends of being a big waste of time and money. What to do? Take it down? Hire someone to make it profitable? If so, who?

    My site gets 15 unique visitors per week consistently. No customers. Of course it's copywriting, a starving artist profession if there ever was one (copywriters that claim to make $1000s cannot prove it. Most are, let's say, fakers imo).

    I have no optin and not selling any info. I have no desire to put any more time into it.

    What to do? Just take it down? Hire someone to make it profitable? I've had it on Afternic for a couple months, for $700 but no interest.
    What did you do, and why didn't it work? Where are your visitors dropping off your site?

    Seems to me that you need to hire someone to do the SEO for your site (if that's the route that you're heading) If you're trying to compete on a standard buy my copywriting services SEO, you will find it very hard. You need a unique twist.

    Have you tried selling your services on Warriors for Hire? That should get your a reputation, then ask for testimonials on your site.

    If not, you could try some PPC to drive traffic at it. If you're a good copywriter, you should easily be able to convince someone to make a sale?

    PM me, maybe I can help?
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  • Profile picture of the author bryansgal
    @NeverTooLate -- I hope you aren't trying to target a wide audience, since you obviously aren't great at ranking. i.e. Are you trying to rank for something "sales page copywriter" or are you trying to rank for "Denver health copywriter"?

    I used to have a site that ranked in top 10 consistently for freelance writer/copywriter for a certain city. Feel free to PM me if you'd like.
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  • Profile picture of the author bryansgal
    @NeverTooLate -- There are plenty copywriters who make $xxxx per month. But you have to be willing to network OR rank your site (assuming the site's copywriting *by you* converts). Networking is golden. You don't have to go to local meetings and schmooze people. What are you doing on LinkedIn? What is your specialty? A niche? Long sale pages? Brochures? Squeeze pages?

    What are YOU best at? And what are you doing to show people that other than that site?
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  • Profile picture of the author Sagar Mehta
    Ok, so you haven't done much copywriting yourself, you think the industry is full of fakers, networking makes you uncomfortable.

    I don't think this business is for you. Networking is THE skill you need in ANY business, let alone copywriting. I'm yet to see a successful businessperson who didn't have a good network of 'business friends'.

    As for fakers, there are plenty - in every field. If you aren't one, then good on you. You don't need to go to someone's house to find out if they're earning what they claim they are - I haven't been to your house to see if you actually are like what you claim you are.

    And I don't need to be. I would make a decision based on what I see. If some copywriter comes across as flaky, I stay away. It's about perception based on what you see.

    Personally, I think if you can't respect a profession, you shouldn't be doing it.

    Sagar
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    I can see how you failed. You want to be a copywriter,but, you like nothing about a copywriters life. You don't like the ads, you think face to face sales are scummy. You have a disdain for their work. Lastly, you hate the copywriter in the copywriters section of the forum, so, you can't even go their and read the threads to learn how to sell your services to be a better copywriter.

    My advice is to write down what you are willing to do and what you want your life like and then brainstorm a business model that is for you. Copywriting isn't for you unless you are willing to have a shift in thinking.
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