Does Real & Honest Coaching exist? Any REAL Mentors Out There?

10 years ago

There is, you just have to take your time and look. From my experience the best coaching comes from small marketers, who are out there getting their hands dirty.

Thanks
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rise_more_and_more

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Blades

There is, you just have to take your time and look. From my experience the best coaching comes from small marketers, who are out there getting their hands dirty.

In other words, you can't give any precise instructions on who they might be, or how they can be found, but you say that 'there is'.

Thanks

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TryBPO

10 years ago

Hey OP! You sound like an honest, genuine guy so I'll give you some honest, tough-love advice:

- Most of those you'd want to be a coach/mentor are too busy building stuff. - Plenty of people out there to take your money for coaching no doubt...but the truth is you probably wouldn't want them coaching you.

- Most mentorships happen organically. - If you have plenty of money to drop and for a hobby, sure...get a life coach, business coach, etc. My personal opinion here, but I think most of this is New Age-y and not worth serious consideration. Most "real" mentorships pop up organically because you're involved in your niche and having conversations.

- Find someone in a situation you'd like to be in and offer them value. - There are tons and tons and TONS of entrepreneurs and business owners out talking about their business. Find one whose LIFE situation is something you'd like to have, a place you'd like to be, etc. Don't ask him/her for coaching...find a place you can offer value and give it to them for free. Do it again. Earn their trust/respect. They'll help you if you picked someone honorable and worthwhile in the first place.

I don't do coaching...I'm too busy building stuff. But...as I write this, I'm hanging around my house in the Philippines on Friday afternoon waiting for a friend to come over. He wanted me to review the latest/greatest version of his site that he's about to launch. We'll go over bullet points, discuss some actionable steps for him to take, etc. I'm not his "coach"...he's just helped me with things in his area of expertise that makes me WANT to help him out!

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Greg guitar

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Hey OP! You sound like an honest, genuine guy so I'll give you some honest, tough-love advice:

- Most of those you'd want to be a coach/mentor are too busy building stuff. - Plenty of people out there to take your money for coaching no doubt...but the truth is you probably wouldn't want them coaching you.

- Most mentorships happen organically. - If you have plenty of money to drop and for a hobby, sure...get a life coach, business coach, etc. My personal opinion here, but I think most of this is New Age-y and not worth serious consideration. Most "real" mentorships pop up organically because you're involved in your niche and having conversations.

- Find someone in a situation you'd like to be in and offer them value. - There are tons and tons and TONS of entrepreneurs and business owners out talking about their business. Find one whose LIFE situation is something you'd like to have, a place you'd like to be, etc. Don't ask him/her for coaching...find a place you can offer value and give it to them for free. Do it again. Earn their trust/respect. They'll help you if you picked someone honorable and worthwhile in the first place.

I don't do coaching...I'm too busy building stuff. But...as I write this, I'm hanging around my house in the Philippines on Friday afternoon waiting for a friend to come over. He wanted me to review the latest/greatest version of his site that he's about to launch. We'll go over bullet points, discuss some actionable steps for him to take, etc. I'm not his "coach"...he's just helped me with things in his area of expertise that makes me WANT to help him out!

I'm not sure what's going on with the thanks button, but I tried to thank your post; the button just disappears and my name doesn't populate in the thanks box, but I will simply say; I think this is a great, well thought out, and true post that applies in a lot more areas of life than just internet marketing.

If you want to get better at anything, there is no better way than to hook up with someone who is a level or two above you; (maybe they built a buyers' list of 1000, and yours is 200). The gift of shmoozing can't be overrated!

Whether playing a sport, or chess, or internet marketing; the superstars are usually too busy, and it might be hard to deliver enough value to make it worth their time to help you, unless you can simply hook up with them on a friendship level having nothing to do with their area of expertise.

I knew a guy that used to play golf with Michael Jordan every time he came to town; (not that he got, or was seeking any basketball tips). But because they had an honest, natural friendship, he probably could have got some tips on his game; more likely than some guy angling for that.

It's all about relationships, and we tend to undervalue our own assets, so we often miss opportunities to provide value to others; hard to do if you feel like you have nothing to offer. Jay Abraham talks a lot about the importance of "revering" what you bring to the table; a lesson I still have to work on.

Anyway, great post. I do think there are some amazing paid coaches too, but you have to pick them carefully, have the budget, and really know that you're ready to fully commit to being the best student you can.

There was another thread where a guy whose main issue was not enough time, was seeking advice about coaching; the best advice imo, was a few people who also offered "tough love", and told him to save his money until he had enough time to implement whatever the coach told him to do.

Thanks

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kaposzta

10 years ago

I've seen a few mentoring services in the WSO section where there were numerous (written or video) testimonials that they're actually making money. If I remember correctly, Igor's coaching thread about list bulidng has at least a dozen video testimonials.

Thanks

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Henri Lind

10 years ago

These wso coaches that charge you 27/month isnt actually coaching. Its just a product.

But there are good number of real genuine coaches out there like Alex Jeffreys or Dean Holland and ton of other people.

Their coaching costs 4-5 figures. And its more than worth it.

Thanks
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Coby

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Henri Lind

These wso coaches that charge you 27/month isnt actually coaching. Its just a product.

But there are good number of real genuine coaches out there like Alex Jeffreys or Dean Holland and ton of other people.

Their coaching costs 4-5 figures. And its more than worth it.

Or maybe the $27/month coaching is a lead generation for their backend personal coaching...

Group coaching and personal coaching are not the same thing

It doesn't have to be a one or the other. A coach can offer more than one type of coaching and still be an effective coach. Many folks will start at $27/month to learn the basics or to test the water before committing to a more significant amount...

Do you speak from experience as a coach? Or just making an assumption?

Cheers,
Coby

P.S. I know many folks that would disagree with you that $27/month coaching is not "real" coaching

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John Romaine

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Henri Lind

These wso coaches that charge you 27/month isnt actually coaching. Its just a product.

But there are good number of real genuine coaches out there like Alex Jeffreys or Dean Holland and ton of other people.

Their coaching costs 4-5 figures. And its more than worth it.

The problem with charging (not that I'm against it) at 4-5 figures is that your reach drops off. This is fine if you're happy to coach high end students, but if you're wanting to help as many people as possible (have a broader reach) you need to "package" your offerings in a way that allow that.

I could easily say "I'll offer you personal coaching at $5,000 a month", but how many are likely to take me up on that? There might be some, but I might be sitting here for a while too, waiting for an order to hit my inbox.

Offering a monthly program at $27 or whatever per month, makes it more accessible for everyone. (and most probably helps more people too)

Eg. Chris Farrel has over 5,000 members paying $37 a month.

Nothing wrong with that.

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joshuamason

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Henri Lind

These wso coaches that charge you 27/month isnt actually coaching. Its just a product.

But there are good number of real genuine coaches out there like Alex Jeffreys or Dean Holland and ton of other people.

Their coaching costs 4-5 figures. And its more than worth it.

Alex and Dean are my coaches and mentors. They are awesome! They help you and they are there for you. They do not B.S. at all! They will tell you exactly how it is and exactly what you need to do in order to succeed. They give you the proper foundation and the correct resources with which to use.
They do not just go, "Here is what you need, this is what you do,...now do it!" Because that does not help anybody. I needed explanation, a coach that worked with me and did not talk at me.

Both Alex & Dean are the best! If you have the opportunity to work with them, jump on it. Money well spent.

Good luck! You need help finding them, just let me know. I can steer you in the right direction.

Thanks

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emelef

10 years ago

What kind of coaching are you looking for? marketing strategies, techie stuff, general mentoring? It's hard to advise or recommend without more information about what exact business you are in, what stage of the process you are at, and your current circumstances... and of course what you want to achieve, or where you want to get to. If you want to discuss further PM me.

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DubDubDubDot

10 years ago

Originally Posted by vladinla

As many people on WF I feel that I'm not getting it.

What exactly are you trying to do?

I want to be like ____. Fill in the blank.

Thanks

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Malcolm Thomas

10 years ago

The key to finding a good coach is to first not rush and spend your money on the first coach who offers to take you in as a student. The second thing to look for when finding a coach is to see whether they actually practice what they preach.

Do they actually make money from using the business model that they teach you or do they make money from simply coaching you?

Anyone can talk the talk, but the bigger question is do they walk the walk?

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jrimshot 10 years ago

Alex Jeffreys just did a launch not that long ago. For 19.95 you can get a ton of information from a 7 figure marketer. He isn't likely to show you how to setup a squeeze page, but he'll show you how to create a business. This is training, not coaching but... thought you'd like to know. As mentioned above, Alex is a well known and successful coach.
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WarrenPeterson

10 years ago

Originally Posted by vladinla

Hi all,

As many people on WF I feel that I'm not getting it. ALL sorts of info and software is available. But it all doesn't seem to work as advertised.

But apparently there are some people out there who GET it. And they are making money. Excellent!

So, this situation naturally makes one think of coaching, gaining some wisdom first hand. NOT FOR FREE of course!

BUT! When I read the reviews for many different coaching offers (carefully) I realized this:

1. Most of the success stories (I mean actually making money stories) are usually coming from literally 1-2 people per thread, and they just get recycled throughout the thread.
2. ALL the exited reviews are basically just talking about the coach being a wonderful human being and coaching being "exciting". Who the F cares! Nobody is actually saying they made $$$$$$. They are just getting closer, and closer, and closer.

Any thoughts? Any REAL coaching experiences?

AND the most important question: are there any IM Marketers out there who can actually properly teach, train, coach? WHO ARE HONEST.

Those IM Marketers who feel they can offer value and are ready to work with mature & intelligent person, please PM me by all means!

Thanks!

I'm a big fan of coaching. I coach others, and I pay for coaches to work with me. I think everyone needs a set of mentors, coaches, advisers, and so on who are all vested in the outcome.

What I suggest you should do first is narrow down exactly what it is you would want coaching on - have a definite primary objective you are expecting to achieve with your coach. Have you own goals and needs very clear when you start approaching potential coaches (or when they start PMing you here...)

Coaches have their own strengths, like everyone else, and it is important that you find a coach who has a strength that is aligned with your primary objective.

So go into your conversations, interview the coach and tell him/her what your primary objective is. Ask them specifically how they are going to help you reach that objective (you should have some metrics to use as a means of measuring success along the way, to know you are staying on track). Think of this like an interview, you are the employer and you are hiring an employee - you have a very specific need you want that employee to fill. So interview the candidates until you find one that you are comfortable hiring.

HTH

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PerformanceMan

10 years ago

This ain't high school football. The first thing you need to get over is the idea that online marketing is hard. It's not. Complete idiots do it every day and make lots of money.

You don't need a coach! You need to get to work.

Thanks
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WarrenPeterson

10 years ago

Originally Posted by PerformanceMan

This ain't high school football. The first thing you need to get over is the idea that online marketing is hard. It's not. Complete idiots do it every day and make lots of money.

You don't need a coach! You need to get to work.

Everyone needs a coach. I agree 100% with this quote from Eric Schmidt about coaching.

Schmidt Everyone needs a coach Video Fortune -...

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DubDubDubDot 10 years ago

Originally Posted by WarrenPeterson

Everyone needs a coach. I agree 100% with this quote from Eric Schmidt about coaching.

Here is a good article about Bill Campbell, the guy Schmidt mentioned in the video:
The secret coach - Jul. 21, 2008

He has a top notch professional history as CEO of Intuit and a VP at Apple. So when companies bring him in as an adviser, they know what they are getting.

I would hope the takeaway from this for certain people on the forum is to know who that guy is you are forking money over to.
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- WarrenPeterson 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot
  
  ....
  I would hope the takeaway from this for certain people on the forum is to know who that guy is you are forking money over to.
  
  ^ This is critical. That is why I recommend to people that they go through the process of hiring a coach the same way they would go through the process of hiring an employee.
  
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WriterWahm

10 years ago

You've been on the WF for 3 years and you're still not getting it...I don't understand it. You mentioned that you want help with IM, yet, IM is just a tool to building your online business. I can't say this enough (apparently, I have), but you need to have a business model.

So what do you want to do? Do you want to offer a service? What are you good at? Or would you rather sell products (physical or digital)? Do you prefer being an affiliate marketer? Basically, you pick what interests you NOT what brings the $$$$$$. Next you look for a warrior that is doing that stuff and doing it well and offer value in exchange for mentoring.

If you're waiting for someone to hand you 'the secrets to success' on a platter then I'm afraid you're going to go another 3 years and not 'get' it.

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John Romaine

10 years ago

I've always wanted to help someone, but the reasons below are just a few that prevent it from happening.

1. Internet marketing is not some dreamy place full of cupcakes and candy canes that everyone makes it out to be. Its f'ing hard work, and it can be very boring. One of the biggest problems I've found is that mostly everyone that needs help, wants to hear a certain answer - and when they don't hear it, they switch off. These people are called "askholes". They ask for help, and they don't take the advice.

2. What price do you put on coaching, honestly? I've invested almost 5 years, and probably 25,000 hours worth of effort. What is all of that time, effort, and mistakes .....what's that REALLY worth?

3. Everyone has their own styles. I can only teach you what works for me. That doesn't mean it will work for you.

4. People are lazy.

5. People give up too easily or complain too much

6. Everyone wants to make a million dollars, but they only want to invest $5.

7. People are never really serious.

8. Most people are just tyre kickers.

9. Most people take no action

10. Most people listen to too many people at once, and lack focus.

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Devin X

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Romaine

I've always wanted to help someone, but the reasons below are just a few that prevent it from happening.

1. Internet marketing is not some dreamy place full of cupcakes and candy canes that everyone makes it out to be. Its f'ing hard work, and it can be very boring. One of the biggest problems I've found is that mostly everyone that needs help, wants to hear a certain answer - and when they don't hear it, they switch off. These people are called "askholes". They ask for help, and they don't take the advice.

2. What price do you put on coaching, honestly? I've invested almost 5 years, and probably 25,000 hours worth of effort. What is all of that time, effort, and mistakes .....what's that REALLY worth?

3. Everyone has their own styles. I can only teach you what works for me. That doesn't mean it will work for you.

4. People are lazy.

5. People give up too easily or complain too much

6. Everyone wants to make a million dollars, but they only want to invest $5.

7. People are never really serious.

8. Most people are just tyre kickers.

9. Most people take no action

10. Most people listen to too many people at once, and lack focus.

Hit the nail on the ******* head!

BAM!

Thanks

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martinp

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Romaine

I've always wanted to help someone, but the reasons below are just a few that prevent it from happening.

1. Internet marketing is not some dreamy place full of cupcakes and candy canes that everyone makes it out to be. Its f'ing hard work, and it can be very boring. One of the biggest problems I've found is that mostly everyone that needs help, wants to hear a certain answer - and when they don't hear it, they switch off. These people are called "askholes". They ask for help, and they don't take the advice.

2. What price do you put on coaching, honestly? I've invested almost 5 years, and probably 25,000 hours worth of effort. What is all of that time, effort, and mistakes .....what's that REALLY worth?

3. Everyone has their own styles. I can only teach you what works for me. That doesn't mean it will work for you.

4. People are lazy.

5. People give up too easily or complain too much

6. Everyone wants to make a million dollars, but they only want to invest $5.

7. People are never really serious.

8. Most people are just tyre kickers.

9. Most people take no action

10. Most people listen to too many people at once, and lack focus.

This is it in a nutshell. I've done coaching before, and although I've been asked by a few people if I would do it again I've nearly always declined for the reasons stated above.

If I did ever offer coaching again I'd charge 4 figures a month and would be very, very careful about the kind of people I take on. So many people THINK they will benefit from coaching but in reality are looking for someone to hold their hand and do it for them. Even when they're given step by step instructions they still don't have the motivation to take the action they need.

This is not a dig at the OP by the way - just an observation from my own experience.

Thanks

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rise_more_and_more

10 years ago

Originally Posted by vladinla

Hi all,

As many people on WF I feel that I'm not getting it. ALL sorts of info and software is available. But it all doesn't seem to work as advertised.

But apparently there are some people out there who GET it. And they are making money. Excellent!

So, this situation naturally makes one think of coaching, gaining some wisdom first hand. NOT FOR FREE of course!

BUT! When I read the reviews for many different coaching offers (carefully) I realized this:

1. Most of the success stories (I mean actually making money stories) are usually coming from literally 1-2 people per thread, and they just get recycled throughout the thread.
2. ALL the exited reviews are basically just talking about the coach being a wonderful human being and coaching being "exciting". Who the F cares! Nobody is actually saying they made $$$$$$. They are just getting closer, and closer, and closer.

Any thoughts? Any REAL coaching experiences?

AND the most important question: are there any IM Marketers out there who can actually properly teach, train, coach? WHO ARE HONEST.

Those IM Marketers who feel they can offer value and are ready to work with mature & intelligent person, please PM me by all means!

Thanks!

do you really think that someone can 'coach' someone else to make money? If they could do that, they would use their knowledge to make money for themselves, instead of 'coaching'.

No, there's not a lot of honest 'coachers'. I myself have not found one. In fact, I am thinking to post a job to see if I can find one for myself to see if I can develop the business I have started. I'll think about it.

Thanks
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Nightengale

10 years ago

Originally Posted by rise_more_and_more

do you really think that someone can 'coach' someone else to make money? If they could do that, they would use their knowledge to make money for themselves, instead of 'coaching'.

[Beep!] Wrong answer.

True entrepreneurs are usually ALWAYS looking for ways to make money. Smart/serial entrepreneurs have systems in place to make money fairly easily. They get one business going which runs with little/no ongoing time in their part (by putting systems and employees in place) and then go off to start another business. (Or they sell their business.)

And starting a business teaching others how to get into a specific business or field is good business. It's just showing others how to make money, which EVERYONE wants to know.

1. OR they made good money in a business but now no longer do it for whatever reason (burnout, loss of interest, boredom, industry changes, new family, etc.) and decide to leave the business. But they still use their knowledge and skills to teach others how to get into that business.

2. It's possible someone was very successful in a specific business, but because they now have a family, they can't do that business anymore (time/travel constraints, etc.), but they can still use their knowledge and skills to teach others to go into the industry while staying home the the new baby.

Let's say a woman was in the import/export field. Her job requires long hours and lots of travel. Then she has a baby. Ooops! Now she can't travel all over the world. But she can still use her skills and knowledge teaching others how to do it while staying home with the new baby.

3. Or they might have been injured and can't do what they could do before. So they coach on how to do it.

Or, etc.....

ALL of which is completely ethical and aboveboard.

Originally Posted by vladinla

Hi all,

As many people on WF I feel that I'm not getting it. ALL sorts of info and software is available. But it all doesn't seem to work as advertised.

But apparently there are some people out there who GET it. And they are making money. Excellent!

So, this situation naturally makes one think of coaching, gaining some wisdom first hand. NOT FOR FREE of course!

BUT! When I read the reviews for many different coaching offers (carefully) I realized this:

1. Most of the success stories (I mean actually making money stories) are usually coming from literally 1-2 people per thread, and they just get recycled throughout the thread.
2. ALL the exited reviews are basically just talking about the coach being a wonderful human being and coaching being "exciting". Who the F cares! Nobody is actually saying they made $$$$$$. They are just getting closer, and closer, and closer.

Any thoughts? Any REAL coaching experiences?

AND the most important question: are there any IM Marketers out there who can actually properly teach, train, coach? WHO ARE HONEST.

Those IM Marketers who feel they can offer value and are ready to work with mature & intelligent person, please PM me by all means!

Thanks!

With all due respect, it sounds like you just haven't looked hard enough. Most good business coaches have DOZENS of results-based testimonials featuring specific amounts of money their students have made as a result of their coaching.

It sounds like you might need to get off of the WF and maybe look outside of IM in particular.

I've been privileged to learn from some of the finest in the business, ALL of whom have dozens of results-based testimonials:

1. Sheri Keys (my own mentor)
2. Ali Brown (AliBrown.com) (Check out her online coaching program at ElevateMyBiz.com)
3. Jeff Walker (ProductLaunchFormula.com)
4. Fabienne Fredrickson (ClientAttraction.com)
5. Lisa Sasevich (LisaSasevich.com)
6. Dan Kennedy (DanKennedy.com)

etc.

Also, do a search. Many have asked this question before and answers like mine have been given before.

Hope that helps!

Michelle

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WarrenPeterson

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Nightengale

[Beep!] Wrong answer.

True entrepreneurs are usually ALWAYS looking for ways to make money. Smart/serial entrepreneurs have systems in place to make money fairly easily. They get one business going which runs with little/no ongoing time in their part (by putting systems and employees in place) and then go off to start another business. (Or they sell their business.)

And starting a business teaching others how to get into a specific business or field is good business. It's just showing others how to make money, which EVERYONE wants to know.
...

Excellent reply! As you might guess, I agree 100%.

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DubDubDubDot

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Nightengale

starting a business teaching others how to get into a specific business or field is good business.

That's fine, but how do you quantify the real world experience necessary to legitimately hold this position?

What's happening is newbies are looking to gurus to learn how to be gurus and not coming away from it with the required experience to teach good business. I'm sure these people genuinely believe they know their stuff, but the fact is that paying $x for info is never ever a substitute for years of experience.

This is why the failure of their customers pretty much a given. There's just too much shoddy info being passed around from guru to guru.

Thanks
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Nightengale

10 years ago

Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot

That's fine, but how do you quantify the real world experience necessary to legitimately hold this position?

What's happening is newbies are looking to gurus to learn how to be gurus and not coming away from it with the required experience to teach good business. I'm sure these people genuinely believe they know their stuff, but the fact is that paying for info is never ever a substitute for years of experience.

This is why the failure of their customers pretty much a given. There's just too much shoddy info being passed around from guru to guru.

Oh my word. You're so far off base, no wonder you're confused!

NO ONE said that coaching is a substitute for experience. Of course it isn't! The point of coaching (well, one of them anyway) is to shorten the learning curve, get to market/profit/whatever faster than you would WITHOUT the specialized knowledge, accountability, support etc. that you get from your coach.

You can only gain experience by getting...well, experience. No one said otherwise.

And whoever said that newbies are getting coaches so THEY can coach on the same thing??? Yes, there is that incestuous element in coaching and IM. But it's not EVERYBODY -- not even the majority.

I paid my coach many thousands of dollars ($9.5K last year alone and $3K in 2010 for a grand total of $12.5K for 2 years of coaching) for her specialized knowledge and expertise, as well as the hand-holding (i.e. coaching) she offered while we implemented what she taught us.

I DID NOT do it so I could go out and teach the same thing to others. I am DOING what she taught me. (Ironically though, she hired me to coach her new clients this year on the same thing because she's no longer coaching the general public herself.)

"Failure is pretty much a given"??? That's harsh, wouldn't you say? I don't know the difference in failure rates between those who go it alone vs. those who hire a coach, but... The entire premise of coaching is the greater chance of success precisely BECAUSE you have an experienced coach shepherding you through the process. It saves you time and money over you trying to figure it out yourself.

And lastly, "How do you quantify the real world experience necessary to legitimately hold this position?"

Easy! RESULTS. Does your coach have results and success doing what they're teaching? If so, they're qualified. If not, they're not qualified. Period.

Usually, this is measured in financial success. But it doesn't have to mean direct money. Maybe someone has lots of success getting joint venture partners. So they're qualified to teach YOU how to get JV partners.

Maybe someone has been published and has a best-selling book. Or maybe it wasn't even best-selling, but they figured out how to get their book published. They're qualified to teach that to you.

Maybe someone lost 100 LBs and cured their own diabetes through good diet. They're qualified to coach you in weight loss.

Etc.

It all depends on your goal and what you want to accomplish. Then go out and find someone who has done it and model them. If appropriate, hire them.

Most coaches of all types spread their results and testimonials far and wide. So you KNOW they're qualified.

And yes, I know not everyone is honest. But you can learn to be a savvy buyer and pay attention to your intuition. Personally, I can't even remember the last time I got "scammed" with some product or service I've bought to help my business. Is it possible I could get "taken"? Yes, but it just doesn't happen anymore, really. I've become a VERY smart cookie when it comes to buying business stuff online and pass up most junk so many Warriors get sucked into. $7 e-books aren't even on my radar.

I spent $18,007 in 2012 on coaching and courses. This includes my coach, Glazer-Kennedy Insider's Circle membership, Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Lead Generation machine, etc. (I recently did my taxes so I know the exact figure.) That does NOT include domains, web hosting, shopping cart and merchant account fees, business travel, etc. That's just for coaching and courses.

I didn't get taken -- not even once. And ALL of it was worth every penny.

Hope that answers your questions!

Michelle

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DubDubDubDot

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Nightengale

I spent $18,007 in 2012 on coaching and courses.
...
I didn't get taken -- not even once. And ALL of it was worth every penny.

That's a lot of money to spend on this stuff.

You just posted this in another thread:

Originally Posted by Nightengale

My day job has been in customer service for 10 years (call centers) and let me tell you: it is NOT pleasant.

Instead of jumping into these kind of threads and going on and on about how great coaches are, I think you should save that for when they get you to the promised land.

It's a fairly common thing for people to become delusional in this industry. That usually means a loss of time and some misspent money here and there. Your story however is a potential horror story in the making.

I suspect an emotional attachment is behind giving your chosen heroes nearly $20,000 in just one year. The idea that you gave most of the money to one woman that looks very "Hollywood" is mind blowing. This is not going to end well for you. The only question that remains is how high those financial losses are going to pile up before you realize what's going on.

I would hope I'm not the first person you've heard this from.

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Nightengale

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Romaine

Everyone wants help. No one is serious enough to pay for it.

Not everyone Johnny.

Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot

That's a lot of money to spend on this stuff.

Instead of jumping into these kind of threads and going on and on about how great coaches are, I think you should save that for when they get you to the promised land.

If you want to learn something new (i.e. a new business), it's perfectly logical to hire someone who's done it before and has experience to teach you. I knew almost nothing about the business model she was teaching, so I hired her.

What defines "the promised land" to you? Someone making 6 figures? 7 figures? I've made money doing what she's taught me, but am nowhere near 6 figures yet. I'm still effectively in startup.

If *I'm* happy with my purchase, why do you care?

Too many Warriors think they shouldn't have to spend any money/aren't willing to spend any money. They bash "gurus" (which is a derogatory word around here), arguing about why XYZ course or method won't work for the "newbie" or "regular" folks like them. They discount the successes BECAUSE the guru is a guru. (Hint: how do you think a guru got to be a guru?) They get rude and demanding, wanting to know if it works for "regular" folks like them.

The reason I've posted my experiences and shared what I spent is to show 1) the perspective from a "real" customer and 2) that yes, it works for "real" people (like Warriors) BEFORE I've make "big" money (since, ironically, Warriors dream of riches online but bash "gurus" who HAVE made big money online).

Too many people want instant riches for little time and effort invested and no money. The fact is that you DO need to invest time, effort AND money. And even when you do, you're not necessarily going to see results right away.

There IS a period between the starting line and success where you might not be seeing a lot of visible or tangible results. These things take time. Unfortunately, our minds and emotions play games with us during this period and this is when so many people bail out completely. And that's why they fail: lack of consistent effort and the commitment to stick it out.

But let's just agree to disagree, ok? We each have our own opinion and we're not changing it. I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind, just sharing my viewpoint on this topic and sharing what I've actually done.

What boggles my mind though is that if the millionaires and other successful people DIDN'T coach others to do what they do and just kept it to themselves, they'd get bashed for being greedy and selfish by not teaching/showing others how to do the same thing.

Dani Johnson (of Secret Millionaire fame) was just here in FL, in Orlando, this weekend doing her First Steps to Success seminar. If you follow her at all, you know she "volunteers" her time doing these seminars all over the country every month. Profits from the events are donated to charity as she doesn't need the income.

And she has HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of success stories from her clients.

Yet, if she just kept doing what she's doing and never told anyone or showed anyone how to do the same thing, she'd be bashed for being greedy and selfish.

The entire "is-coaching-worthwhile" debate is a lose/lose argument. Some people are firmly for it and just as many give it no credibility whatsoever. It's a purely subjective debate. What one values, another doesn't. And that's ok. Each person is entitled to their opinion.

There's no need to cast stones and judge that someone will fail. When you do that, you're bashing/killing others' hopes and dreams. And isn't that what we condemn the scammers for?

Michelle

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WarrenPeterson

10 years ago

Originally Posted by rise_more_and_more

do you really think that someone can 'coach' someone else to make money? If they could do that, they would use their knowledge to make money for themselves, instead of 'coaching'.

No, there's not a lot of honest 'coachers'. I myself have not found one. In fact, I am thinking to post a job to see if I can find one for myself to see if I can develop the business I have started. I'll think about it.

To your first question: I've coached plenty of people to make more money. But, I don't coach the MMO space at all, so can't speak to that directly. I coach business owners, folks who run auto repair shops, restaurants, dry cleaners, etc... Most businesses have serious errors in their own processes that are costing them money; errors on both sides - errors with their expenses and errors with their income. Sometimes it is easy to find, other times it takes more work, however most businesses have money on the table - on both sides of that equation. All of the folks I have worked with have made money as a result of our work together. Again, my coaching is not in the MMO space, but in the world of business.

To your second question: That is the same issue said about all people who are in the profession of helping others, so let me ask you this. If a teacher knows so much about XYZ, why aren't they out there practicing XYZ instead of teaching others about it? I mean, if some guy knows so much about nuclear fusion, why is he stuck in a college classroom, instead of out there working on a new type of reactor? Why teach accounting, instead of capitalizing on that knowledge and run an accounting firm?

The biggest problem, as I see it, with people who coach in the IM/MMO space is that they use a broad brush, for what is a very narrow project. Coaching is an individual process, and while there are commonalities behind each client, the actual work done, issues and projects discussed, is different for every client. When coaching is sold as a 'product' for a mass audience, it has to be stripped down to only the common elements. And that is why it is ineffective, because each person has unique strengths, unique weaknesses, a unique way of learning, and the coach needs to modify everything for that unique person.

That customization cannot be done on the assembly line, it is a one-off process. Training can be done en masse, though technically for that to be most effective it is also modifed for the learning style of each person.

My two pennies.

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Claire Koch 10 years ago

There's book out there by dennis becker called $5 a day thats a good start and you keep increasing the per day amount. We're doing our breakthrough challenges in the 1 k a day club he runs.

I recommend you join us or at least get the book earn enough to upgrade and then join the 1 k a day club.

I am sensing you have information overload and that will get you out of it. You just need to start and make a decision which way to go and then be motivated.

Are you a member of warroom? The new video marketing club? I recommend these two clubs here at the warrior forum as there is a motivation book that was a wso in there presently.

Earn 1K A Day: Hand-Held Support To Take Your Business To The Next Level - if you want to go for it you get the $5 a day book and other bonuses you'll love that is not an affiliate link btw. much cheaper then a mentor. REALLY

this page for the $5 a day book actually has a motivation and focus section to it I don't remember but I bought it a long time ago don't think it had that before go figure I forget.

Anyway its just 37.00 one time to get started and then bounce your self upwards just suggestions no reasons other then that. This is not an affilaite link either mods.

The 5 Bucks A Day System - e1kad.com
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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by rise_more_and_more

do you really think that someone can 'coach' someone else to make money? If they could do that, they would use their knowledge to make money for themselves, instead of 'coaching'.

No, there's not a lot of honest 'coachers'. I myself have not found one. In fact, I am thinking to post a job to see if I can find one for myself to see if I can develop the business I have started. I'll think about it.

Let's not get confused here. How many football coaches run out and play? That's why they are coaches.

If want to learn how to make money, buy a product. If you want someone to guide you and help you implement the necessary steps in said product, you get a coach.

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Bayo

10 years ago

Yes to both questions.

It's no different to any other industry where there will always be people that are 'bad' and those that are 'good.'

When I bought a care for my daughter for college I wanted a used car. To say that the person that we finally bought the car from was a 'typical used car salesman' would be a huge sign of disrespect, but we all know to well that the term is used often as a broad sweep for anyone that is involved in selling used cars.

In the IM world, we tend to distrust a lot more because of what we hear about coaching and mentoring, but the truth is, this industry almost promotes and supports people being fake and needing to impress just to make a quick buck.

I'm a certified and qualified coach and have been since when I took my Masters back in the 90s. However, I prefer that people and businesses utilize my services not because of any piece of paper (and I'm not even talking about in the MMO niche), I prefer we agree to do business because they have no doubt in their mind and neither do I, about our ability to co-create change in he direction they're seeking.

BAYO

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LexiB

10 years ago

I personally know someone who I'm very close with that was "mentored" and did some work with Mike Filsaime. I can tell you that whether you like his products or not, he's a really great guy, down to earth, and really cares about the people around him.

My friend and Mike haven't done much together in a while but still to this day he cannot say enough about him. And she did not pay for training or mentoring. And BTW, he didn't ask for money or anything in exchange. He just saw that this girl had talent in the IM space and he helped her.

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Greg guitar

10 years ago

Originally Posted by LexiB

I personally know someone who I'm very close with that was "mentored" and did some work with Mike Filsaime. I can tell you that whether you like his products or not, he's a really great guy, down to earth, and really cares about the people around him.

My friend and Mike haven't done much together in a while but still to this day he cannot say enough about him. And she did not pay for training or mentoring. And BTW, he didn't ask for money or anything in exchange. He just saw that this girl had talent in the IM space and he helped her.

Lexi is a great example of the benefits possible for serious students of a good coach. She ran with what she learned, and is now paying it forward.

Those on a budget could do a lot worse than seeking out someone who is still hungry, still on the way up, needing testimonials and success stories; that is the sweet spot where the coaching bargains live imo.

I know I sound a bit like a shill, but Lexi doesn't pay me. I simply like the idea of people who need the help the most having a place to get it without the price that comes with a famous coach. And I do feel that she is a quality person with great ideas who cares about helping others, and that she isn't alone; you just have to dig a bit.

Edit: added later: I don't know what has happened, but Lexi has completely disappeared, without completing her agreements to those who bought her coaching. I hope nothing bad has happened to her, but of course, it is much more likely that she has her own reasons for disappearing. Either way, obviously my recommendation of her coaching must be taken with a lot of salt.

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Young Financier

10 years ago

It's never good idea to hire a coach who makes their living as such. What you want to do is the person who's busy making moves, stop them and chat with them if you can. Those people are usually willing to show people the ropes. In this case, it's coaching without being called that.

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kayfrank

10 years ago

Be careful. Paying lots of money for coaching doesn't guarantee you the best coach for YOU or even the best coach full stop! We are all different, we work better with some people and better with others.
Get on the list of someone before you decide to pay them for coaching.
Do you like their style?
Do you connect with them?
Do they offer value?
Do they know their stuff?
Are they consistent?
Do you trust them?

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theory expert

Banned 10 years ago

I honestly dont have an IM recommendation because what happens alot of times someone dont know what they want until they do it. What looks good on the surface turns out to be alot of work than one is capable of doing, or, willing to do.

You got to find out what gets you up in the morning and keeps you up at night through trial and error. Some find it the first place they seek while most find it later on after many frustrations.

Good Luck

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TheSalesBooster

10 years ago

Coaching will only take you so far. You still have to put what the coach teaches you into action and that's what most people who hire coaches fail to realize.

There is a big problem I've been noticing the past few years and I think it has to do with the big influx of new people coming into this industry...

They've all been told to hire coaches if they want to get anywhere. Problem is all these new people have some weird misconception and think a coach is some kind of stockbroker that is going to make them rich while they sit around and do nothing...

It doesn't work like that. A coach is an basically a advisor, not your damn employee...

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vladinla 10 years ago

Ladies & Gentlemen!
Thanks to all
I appreciate your comments.
Vlad
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amuro

10 years ago

Originally Posted by vladinla

Hi all,

As many people on WF I feel that I'm not getting it. ALL sorts of info and software is available. But it all doesn't seem to work as advertised.

But apparently there are some people out there who GET it. And they are making money. Excellent!

So, this situation naturally makes one think of coaching, gaining some wisdom first hand. NOT FOR FREE of course!

BUT! When I read the reviews for many different coaching offers (carefully) I realized this:

1. Most of the success stories (I mean actually making money stories) are usually coming from literally 1-2 people per thread, and they just get recycled throughout the thread.
2. ALL the exited reviews are basically just talking about the coach being a wonderful human being and coaching being "exciting". Who the F cares! Nobody is actually saying they made $$$$$$. They are just getting closer, and closer, and closer.

Any thoughts? Any REAL coaching experiences?

AND the most important question: are there any IM Marketers out there who can actually properly teach, train, coach? WHO ARE HONEST.

Those IM Marketers who feel they can offer value and are ready to work with mature & intelligent person, please PM me by all means!

Thanks!

I can name three.

John Thornhill, Mike Filsaime and Omar Martin.

I know because I have invested and gone through their courses.

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Anonymous Affiliate

10 years ago

I am myself VERY skeptical about coaches for the following reason:

Most coaches are, in my opinion, charlatans who make more money "coaching" and selling "how to" training products than actually "doing" what they teach.

I ultimately believe in the old saying: those who can, do. Those you cannot, teach.

Question: Why would anyone rent their time at $$$ per hour to teach others, if they could earn $$$$$$$$$ actually doing what they teach? Answer: because they can teach, but cannot do. And no, don't give me the "I enjoy helping others" B.S.

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gax444 10 years ago

In my humble opinion. I agree with Alex Blades. The best Internet Marketing coaches are the ones who have small businesses.
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- gax444 10 years ago
  
  If they are still small internet marketers, chances are they still understand what you are going through are are willing to take time with you.
  
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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

I am myself VERY skeptical about coaches for the following reason:

Most coaches are, in my opinion, charlatans who make more money "coaching" and selling "how to" training products than actually "doing" what they teach.

I ultimately believe in the old saying: those who can, do. Those you cannot, teach.

Question: Why would anyone rent their time at $$$ per hour to teach others, if they could earn $$$$$$$$$ actually doing what they teach? Answer: because they can teach, but cannot do. And no, don't give me the "I enjoy helping others" B.S.

Sorry mate but that is total BS. Some of us actually enjoy teaching. For some of us, it isn't only about the money.

When people ask about coaching on here, they don't want a coach. They really want someone to say do this then do that. They are looking for a short cut not a coach in the real sense.

My previous coach made his money as an author and has his own tv show. He knew nothing about real estate investing, but buy did he help me build a business based on my expertise.

Why, because he understands how to build businesses. He brainstorms and guides me. He helps and reviews my goals. he kept me motivated and kept me on track. He knew SFA about real estate and less about clickbank... but with his help, my product was always in the top 5 on CB in its niche.

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Anonymous Affiliate

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

Sorry mate but that is total BS. Some of us actually enjoy teaching. For some of us, it isn't only about the money

BS.

Drop your coaching fee and you will have a case in the whole "I coach because I enjoy helping others" BS. The very moment you start charging, then you are in because of the money, not because the fuzzy feeling.

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Coby

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

BS.

Drop your coaching fee and you will have a case in the whole "I coach because I enjoy helping others" BS. The very moment you start charging, then you are in because of the money, not because the fuzzy feeling.

Or they are charging to help cover the high costs of VPS servers, webinars, autoresponders, etc required to "coach" others

Even non profit organizations charge money for their services

Cheers,
Coby

P.S. I do have a "free group coaching" as part of my overall coaching model

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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

BS.

Drop your coaching fee and you will have a case in the whole "I coach because I enjoy helping others" BS. The very moment you start charging, then you are in because of the money, not because the fuzzy feeling.

Who said i was only in it because I am here to help others? Suggest you take the ignorance out of the argument and get your facts right before making BS assertions.

I do it because I enjoy teaching and I enjoy making money from it. Simple.

As for my fees, they are congruent with the results I get my clients.

Not that it suits your myopic vision of life, but I also work with and help others on here pro-bono.

And for the record...when I coach, I am trading off my time which just happens to be a finite resource. This means that the opportunity cost is what I lose in income by not doing (as you put it). So why the fack would I just do it for free? I am a business man. So yeah, I charge for my time. The world doesn't owe me a living and I owe no one my time.

Read my sig mate... especially the 2nd sentence.

Sal

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vladinla 10 years ago

Again, thanks all! Nice & lively discussion
Mos def, very useful insights here. However I feel that it drifted away from my original questions.
Some practical ideas will be really appreciated!
Vlad
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Anonymous Affiliate

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

when I coach, I am trading off my time which just happens to be a finite resource. This means that the opportunity cost is what I lose in income by not doing (as you put it). So why the fack would I just do it for free? I am a business man. So yeah, I charge for my time. The world doesn't owe me a living and I owe no one my time.

So you're a business man? Fine, here's a question from a business man who doesn't coach (me) to another one who coaches (you):

Give me one single logical reason as of why any real business man would rent his time to grow someone else's business for a fraction of the money he'd earn if he was growing his own? and PLEASE don't tell me that you do it for the fuzzy feeling of helping others...

Because, quite frankly, the only reason as of why that'd make financial sense is if the coach made most of his income by "coaching" rather than by "doing" (which is rather the norm :rolleyes

. And that, in essence, is the very definition of a charlatan: too much talking (errr... coaching) but hardly any doing... Plenty of that going on around the coaching circles, unfortunately... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I will now be waiting for a feasible response on the question above...

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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

So you're a business man? Fine, here's a question from a business man who doesn't coach (me) to another one who coaches (you):

Give me one single logical reason as of why any real business man would rent his time to grow someone else's business for a fraction of the money he'd earn if he was growing his own? and PLEASE don't tell me that you do it for the fuzzy feeling of helping others...

Because, quite frankly, the only reason as of why that'd make financial sense is if the coach made most of his income by "coaching" rather than by "doing" (which is rather the norm :rolleyes

. And that, in essence, is the very definition of a charlatan: too much talking (errr... coaching) but hardly any doing... Plenty of that going on around the coaching circles, unfortunately... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I will now be waiting for a feasible response on the question above...

Frankly, I do not know how to answer your question because your views are very black and white on this topic. So even trying to give feasible reasons would only fall on deaf ears and I suspect be futile.

But I will take a shot...

1- I am almost 50 and have other business interests away from IM. I have also worked my butt off and built up a substantial real estate portfolio, so it isn't about the money these days. And I do not making all my money from coaching.

2- Yes i could build a massive business, but how much does one actually need? I am happy to plod along doing my stuff, keeping active whilst indulging my passions in life such as making furniture and restoring my old BMW, and of which teaching others is one of them.

3- I really do not want nor need the stress of growing a business to the point where I have to deal with staff, accountancy, legal and all that other stuff. I prefer a stress free life.

4- I don't need to prove my status or success by acquiring material wealth which has to be fueled by an ever increasing income source. Been there, done that... for this guy it's not the key to happiness.

5- I have an abundant mindset. I believe that the Universe provides for everyone, so if someone one comes along and makes more than me... good luck to them. I am not afraid of competition. If someone I help does better than me, then I respect them for their application. I don't worry about paypal fees... I don't get shitty about refunds/

6- I believe in a legacy and to leave this Earth better tan how I found it. So this means doing things to help others. Help others and others will help you.

7- I have built many businesses from scratch and sold them so I have experience that is a tradeable commodity.

8- I was a best selling author down under a few years back, so I reckon that qualifies me to coach other aspiring authors on how to write a book, don't you?

9- I can make moer money in 1 real estate transaction than most people make in a year, but I don;t do it. Why? Because I no longer enjoy it. so I do other things. This is a crucial point: You have to enjoy what you do.

10- I am in a great place these days. So yeah I may not have the same desire and attitude that you may have towards building a business... but who cares? I certainly don't.

Either you get it or you don't.

Sal

PS: I will also take issue with your definition of a coach. If I go around calling myself a coach and tell you i will show you how to make money in a certain way, when I do not do it myself, then yes I am a charlatan.

On the other hand, if I have a skills that enable you to organize your business and methodically grow your business... keep you on track... be a sounding board... and keep you accountable, then I am a coach.

There are many people who offer coaching programs which are just really thinly veiled info products. These products offer no real structure and no real accountability... especially the 27 per month types.

These people are the charlatans IMO.

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Anonymous Affiliate

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

I am almost 50... I prefer a stress free life... I don't need to prove my status or success by acquiring material wealth... I believe that the Universe provides for everyone... I believe in a legacy and to leave this Earth better than how I found it...

That is exactly the type of answer I was expecting...

None of them making any financial sense whatsoever (strange, coming from a business man as you defined yourself...). Therefore, you're reinforcing my original opinion: if it's the fuzzy feeling what you're after ("I believe in a legacy", "the Universe provides for everybody", etc), then drop your coaching fee and you have a case. Otherwise, you're renting your time to make money via talking instead of doing. Not how I would define a business man, but then again I don't see coaches a business men so...

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Coby

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

That is exactly the type of answer I was expecting...

None of them making any financial sense whatsoever (strange, coming from a business man as you defined yourself...). Therefore, you're reinforcing my original opinion: if it's the fuzzy feeling what you're after ("I believe in a legacy", "the Universe provides for everybody", etc), then drop your coaching fee and you have a case. Otherwise, you're renting your time to make money via talking instead of doing. Not how I would define a business man, but then again I don't see coaches a business men so...

Still at it I see - lmao...

I love how you stick to your guns - even if they make you look ridiculous...

We get it - you don't like the coaching business model...

We get it that you are a "business man"...

But one thing I don't get....

How do you find the time to come and argue such senseless points?

That doesn't seem like something a "business man" (you seem to be an expert on what makes a business man) would be doing...

I studied "entrepreneurship" at a state university... Seeing as how that is a "business degree" you'd think I would be somewhat qualified to make reasonable decisions about business... :rolleyes:

Add that to 3 plus years of experience as a full time IM'er - with the results to back it up...

I have offered "free" weekly coaching for my list for the last year and a half (and still do)...

I NEVER wanted to be a coach, I NEVER planned on being a coach...

Why am I a coach then?

DEMAND!

You help enough people for "free" then you get to the point where people are literally begging you to coach them on a more personal level...

I started coaching because I was losing money by NOT coaching! I was already helping these people why would I not let them pay me for that advice? I was already creating the content - why not organize it in one area and charge for it?

To me - THAT makes good business sense

So - I still have my income I was already getting through email marketing and list building, but now I teach people to build their own business doing the same things.

My business model (list building) allows for plenty of extra time... So it only makes sense to me...

Then again maybe I'm missing something...

I think you need to open your mind and remove the negative stigma you have about coaching. Negativity IS NOT going to help you in business or in life.

Cheers,
Coby

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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

That is exactly the type of answer I was expecting...

None of them making any financial sense whatsoever (strange, coming from a business man as you defined yourself...). Therefore, you're reinforcing my original opinion: if it's the fuzzy feeling what you're after ("I believe in a legacy", "the Universe provides for everybody", etc), then drop your coaching fee and you have a case. Otherwise, you're renting your time to make money via talking instead of doing. Not how I would define a business man, but then again I don't see coaches a business men so...

Still no facts to substantiate your argument I see.

Like I said in my pretext to my answers... you won't get it. And you don't.

To have someone come up and tell you that your book made a positive impact on them is an amazing feeling. Yeah it's fuzzy, stroke the ego.. but there is also a sense of satisfaction which words cannot describe and an empathy that they have walked the same journey as you.

And until you experience this, you will never understand. It transcends money.

So...

Stop embarrassing yourself with your childish, argumentative and inflammatory comments. You have never had anything of value to add to this forum... and your form suggests that you never will.

Grow up or get out.

Sal

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Anonymous Affiliate

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

Stop embarrassing yourself with your childish, argumentative and inflammatory comments. You have never had anything of value to add to this forum... and your form suggests that you never will.

Grow up or get out.

Originally Posted by Coby

Still at it I see - lmao...

I love how you stick to your guns - even if they make you look ridiculous...

I think you need to open your mind and remove the negative stigma you have about coaching. Negativity IS NOT going to help you in business or in life.

I shall debate whatever I please, in however fashion I please. If you don't like people debating their opinions, perhaps you should not be in a discussion forum.

I find it funny that people who so vehemently defend the coaching position are those who pitch PAID coaching services in their signatures...

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Coby

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

And that is PRECISELY my point: most of those teachers at business college are teaching because they donot/cannot run their own business themselves. If they did, they wouldnt be teaching to 20-year-old kids the same boring theoretical stuff day in and day out for a fraction of the money. Thus the saying "those who can..."

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

I shall debate whatever I please, in however fashion I please. If you don't like people debating their opinions, perhaps you should not be in a discussion forum.

I find it funny that people who so vehemently defend the coaching position are those who pitch PAID coaching services in their signatures...

I find it funny how you pick and choose which posts you reply too

Maybe you should comment on this one...

Originally Posted by Coby

I just remembered that I had a teacher in one of my Entrepreneurship classes that owned several business and is also a venture capitalist that is worth millions...

He even drove 2 hours one way to come teach...

Why?

He likes to teach!

He even wrote a book and was on T.V.

His name is Doug Tatum.

But maybe he is the exception?

Cheers,
Coby

Kinda puts a damper on your "those who can't..." theory, I reckon that's why you avoided replying to this one

We have supported our side of the argument with proof and facts... You are still only spouting out opinions with no facts to back them up...

Want to have a REAL debate? Then provide some supporting evidence for your argument. You sir are not debating - you are simply arguing a very jaded opinion

You are indeed correct this is a discussion forum created to help others grow their business - which is the exact thing you are arguing against? So I ask you the question why are YOU on a public discussion forum?

Cheers,
Coby

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theory expert Banned 10 years ago

I'd say he is definitely an exception being as though there aren't that many millionaires on the planet statistically.

Not arguing just saying.
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- Coby 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by theory expert
  
  I'd say he is definitely an exception being as though there aren't that many millionaires on the planet statistically.
  
  Not arguing just saying.
  
  Yeah, guess he is the only teacher that can do what he teaches :rolleyes:
  
  But even ONE person blows Mr. Anonymous' (I'm still not convinced that's his real name) theory that teachers/coaches only teach because they "can't do"...
  
  Doug Tatum - YouTube
  
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  Rod Cortez 10 years ago
  
  Some of the arguments in this thread are just plain silly. Look, there are good coaches and there are bad ones (and everything else in between). Coaching comes in a wide variety of formats as well as from a wide variety of people from all walks of life. That makes it difficult to generalize.
  
  Some people are extremely focused, self-disciplined, sharp, and very action-minded, and coaching might not be for them. Though even some of these personality types seek out coaching when they want to break any type of plateau they may have hit.
  
  Most people can (and do) benefit from coaching when they are being taught something that will significantly shorten the learning curve. I know I have. I wouldn't be where I am at this point and time without the coaching I've invested in. Some of the coaching was formal and some of it was very informal.
  
  There are definitely professors out there who don't have real-world experience, but there are also some who do. When I went to business school most of the professors who taught there were already in business for themselves; most of them taught because they had a passion for teaching.
  
  In many of the new entrepreneurship MBAs being offering all around the USA, you cannot teach without a proven track record. So things are changing in the academic world, albeit slowly, but much faster in business schools than some of the other disciplines.
  
  RoD
  
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TheSalesBooster

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

That is exactly the type of answer I was expecting...

None of them making any financial sense whatsoever (strange, coming from a business man as you defined yourself...). Therefore, you're reinforcing my original opinion: if it's the fuzzy feeling what you're after ("I believe in a legacy", "the Universe provides for everybody", etc), then drop your coaching fee and you have a case. Otherwise, you're renting your time to make money via talking instead of doing. Not how I would define a business man, but then again I don't see coaches a business men so...

I guess professors and teachers who teach business at big universities should stop teaching because they can obviously make more money creating their own businesses right?

After all they do get paid to teach people about building a business...

I understand where your hate for coaching comes from, but that doesn't mean it's not a real business...

There is a demand for it and people are filling that demand. There are probably coaches who make more money than you ever will in your entire life. So how can you say it's not a real business?

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Anonymous Affiliate

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

I guess professors and teachers who teach business at big universities should stop teaching because they can obviously make more money creating their own businesses right?

And that is PRECISELY my point: most of those teachers at business college are teaching because they donot/cannot run their own business themselves. If they did, they wouldnt be teaching to 20-year-old kids the same boring theoretical stuff day in and day out for a fraction of the money. Thus the saying "those who can..."

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IMSince2003

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

And that is PRECISELY my point: most of those teachers at business college are teaching because they donot/cannot run their own business themselves. If they did, they wouldnt be teaching to 20-year-old kids the same boring theoretical stuff day in and day out for a fraction of the money. Thus the saying "those who can..."

There is a different mentality in academia than there is in the business world. I have had many instructors who would have been outstanding in their fields of study. They would rather teach because that is what they love to do. The quote you put at the end "those who can..." is both negative and not necessarily true. Yes, owning your own business takes a certain type of personality, one that can handle the uncertainties involved with going it on your own. Many people, not only teachers, prefer to have certain things taken care of for them. For those people, there are plenty of jobs available (well, not so many in this economy, but you get the point). The entrepreneur is a maverick, a trail blazer, the exception, not the rule

I personally like to do both, but that is just me. Others will go their own way.

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theory expert Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

And that is PRECISELY my point: most of those teachers at business college are teaching because they donot/cannot run their own business themselves.

This is very true. I had 5 professsors who had a story of if they did/had x,y,z, they would be doing something else. One wanted to own a bank, one wished they were in computer field, one had an internet business as a side, and, the other one was an accountant who taught because he hated the business. IN fact, he discouraged the accounting majors to do something elsse(though,non listened)..The last one had investment properties, but, he still worked to hold a steady income. That is a significant amount of teachers being as though you only take 5 classes a semester.
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Coby

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

So you're a business man? Fine, here's a question from a business man who doesn't coach (me) to another one who coaches (you):

Give me one single logical reason as of why any real business man would rent his time to grow someone else's business for a fraction of the money he'd earn if he was growing his own? and PLEASE don't tell me that you do it for the fuzzy feeling of helping others...

Because, quite frankly, the only reason as of why that'd make financial sense is if the coach made most of his income by "coaching" rather than by "doing" (which is rather the norm :rolleyes

. And that, in essence, is the very definition of a charlatan: too much talking (errr... coaching) but hardly any doing... Plenty of that going on around the coaching circles, unfortunately... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I will now be waiting for a feasible response on the question above...

I could say that it doesn't make logical financial sense to pay someone to do something I could do myself... Like a DMCA takedown service that you offer...

One day there was a guy on here arguing that using affiliate links in your emails was "unethical"...

On a public forum like this one that has many different types of people and personalities and not to mention business models...

...you really are going to spend time criticizing people that work a business model that you don't agree with, even though you admit you don't have experience running that particular business model...

You can talk till you are blue in the face - but it won't change anything...

There will still be "charletans" out there both charging and giving away what they call "coaching" - there still will be folks swapping CSV files, there will still be folks downloading products illegally...

Long story short - why waste so much time and effort to put down someone else's business model? I mean you are dangerously close to breaking WF rules. The only thing keeping you in the gray area is not mentioning specific people by name...

I mean - seriously - what do you have to gain by talking such negativity? Just say you don't agree and move on? Why start an argument that no one will win?

People become coaches because there is a demand...

People sell solo ads because there is a demand...

People pay for DMCA takedown services because there is a demand...

I understand that you don't want to be a coach - but maybe you should try spreading some positivity rather than negativity. It's only good karma to help others out

I realize that it doesn't make "logical business sense" to you to "help other's grow their business" but that only makes me wonder why you would even bother to be on a public forum? I mean the idea of this forum is to help people grow their business right? :rolleyes:

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Coby

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John Romaine

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

So you're a business man? Fine, here's a question from a business man who doesn't coach (me) to another one who coaches (you):

Give me one single logical reason as of why any real business man would rent his time to grow someone else's business for a fraction of the money he'd earn if he was growing his own? and PLEASE don't tell me that you do it for the fuzzy feeling of helping others...

Because, quite frankly, the only reason as of why that'd make financial sense is if the coach made most of his income by "coaching" rather than by "doing" (which is rather the norm :rolleyes

. And that, in essence, is the very definition of a charlatan: too much talking (errr... coaching) but hardly any doing... Plenty of that going on around the coaching circles, unfortunately... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I will now be waiting for a feasible response on the question above...

James Schramko runs a mastermind group (coaching) at $1,000 per month and has at any one time 15 members per month as part of that group.

He could turn that off at any time, because his own businesses are more profitable. But why would you? If you can help people and make decent money from doing it - why not?

Infact I know he turned off his personal one on one coaching at $10,000 a month because it took up too much of his time.

Put simply - he doesn't need the money, he just enjoys helping people.

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Kim Standerline 10 years ago

The quote is actually those who can do, those who can't teach!! and it's a load of cobblers to put it bluntly.

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

I ultimately believe in the old saying: those who can, do. Those you cannot, teach.
.

I've been teaching offline for years and I can assure you I know exactly what I'm doing when I put it into practice so you can't just generalize like that.

I joined a coaching program 3 weeks ago and I've learned a ton of stuff from it, (I've already seen results in that particular market). It was expensive but worth every penny, having said that I've seen coaching sold for a whole lot more than I paid.

At the end of the day, you pretty much get what you pay for, buy cheap, expect cheap mentoring/coaching

Also don't forget those people who can't be arsed to actually do anything with the coaching they get, in the group I'm in there are loads of people who should be further on than they are, (whole lot of excuses as to why they are not).

Folks just want a magic wand to wave so their business self builds itself. Unfortunately it doesn't happen that way. Even with coaching you still have to put the work in and I suspect many people don't and that's why it gets such a bad press.

Choose your coach/mentor wisely and go for the best you can.

Kim
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professorrosado

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

....Question: Why would anyone rent their time at $$$ per hour to teach others, if they could earn $$$$$$$$$ actually doing what they teach? Answer: because they can teach, but cannot do. And no, don't give me the "I enjoy helping others" B.S.

Well - a lot of my mentoring is done for FREE.

It is true that most "ho-hum" "teachers" can't do, but real teachers love teaching MORE than doing what they expertly teach. According to your philosophy, you were trained by "ho-hum" teachers who were charlatans and failures - so what does that make you?

I simply do not agree with this simplistic statement about teachers - probably a result of "ho-hum" education. (I am not attacking you - only your premise!)

Why do I give away for FREE instead of making real $$$$$$$$ doing it? Because while I am teaching, I am actually creating products, services, articles, ebooks, podcasts, videos, membership sites, new concepts in marketing, new concepts for websites and platforms, software, real books, course content, wp-plugins, and much more I care not to elucidate further on - I have and will make very mucho mulah and leave for my organizations and initiatives a legacy all prodded out of me from a weekly teaching commitment I most graciously invite others to benefit from to whatever degree they can - considering their capacity.

One man's bore is another man's goldmine.
Not everything that glitters is gold - but gold glitters.
Great Gurus (coaches) charge lots of money, but not every single one does - another saying says this: "there's always an exception to the rule!"

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John Romaine

10 years ago

Here's some advice.

Learn from someone who is in the trenches DOING IT.

Not someone in a pinstripe suit that makes 100% of their income by pitching from stage.

There's a BIG difference.

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LetsGoViral

10 years ago

Yes, I think there are a few REAL mentors, but they are mostly for free and are mentoring someone so that someone can later help them in business. Think of merchant's apprentice.

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ronaejull

10 years ago

Originally Posted by LetsGoViral

Yes, I think there are a few REAL mentors, but they are mostly for free and are mentoring someone so that someone can later help them in business. Think of merchant's apprentice.

This thread fascinates me, and I completely resonate with this one short comment :-)

The image of an apprentice certainly fits, at least for me.

I spent tons of money years ago trying to find someone to hand me the "keys to the kingdom" so to speak.

Then I just found a few folks who were doing what I wanted to be doing (and making $$ at it) and followed them.

So now I've built a team, and offer to show each team member how to build their own successful online biz. I don't ever charge for that - that'd just be silly seems to me. Not to say there's anything wrong with those who run around the country charging the big bucks for courses and conferences and inspirational "wowie" events and coaching. It just doesn't do anything for me. What DOES work for me is building relationships and walking with team members as they build their own profits doing something they're passionate about.

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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Kent

No, there are none. How many successful entrepreneurs do you know who make their living from coaching others how to do it? I don't know any.

By all means shop online for tools, good training materials and services. But don't waste your money on coaching.

That;s a half truth at best. Many successful online marketers entrepreneurs make a large % of their income by offering high ticket coaching programs.

Try convincing Dan Kennedy on that one and see how far it gets you.

If you're half decent at mentoring, it's the quickest way to make a six figure income in just a few months!

Sal

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HelpingYouBeAnExpert

10 years ago

No matter what coaching you look at the majority of students will fail and there is no way around it, it's human nature. Now with good coaching a bit smaller number fail but they fail. The problem is that it's hard and it takes responsibility and ton of other things.

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murtuza

10 years ago

Get in touch with Sean Mize. He is a solid coach and very successful. However I am too a coach, lol, but Sean would be a better choice...

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lgibbon

Banned 10 years ago

The fact that it looks like 9 out of 10 people here are coaches,
should begin to tell you something.
It's like taking candy from a baby.
Save your money.

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Kim Standerline 10 years ago

I'm not a coach Ian and don't particularly want to be. The point I was making in my post was my offline job consisted of quite a bit of teaching in a subject I was an expert in.

Originally Posted by lgibbon

The fact that it looks like 9 out of 10 people here are coaches,
should begin to tell you something.
It's like taking candy from a baby.
Save your money.

To be honest I wouldn't touch coaching with a bargepole. I was offered $10k about 4 years ago to coach someone on a 1-1 basis and turned it down. told him to keep his money and pointed him in the right direction.

I mentored one person on here last year (because I liked her and could see she had a good work ethic) and she's gone on to do really well. It was something that just evolved though and I probably wouldn't do it again.

Kim
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- lgibbon Banned 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kim Standerline
  
  The point I was making in my post was my offline job consisted of quite a bit of teaching in a subject I was an expert in.
  
  I'm pretty sure that sort of coaching is good value Kim.
  The type I'm referring to are the ones who coach others,
  to coach others, to coach others and so on.
  
  That's why there are so many coaches and very few that aren't these days.
  
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WriterWahm 10 years ago

On one hand, you're right. When I first started I was offered 'coaching' for free and I grabbed it with both hands. Know what happened? I only ended up buying that person's product and didn't get anything else in return, not even a "hey, how is it working for you?"

But that was coaching in a way; it taught me never to make that mistake again. But that doesn't mean I turned my back on coaching/mentoring. My mentor found me on this forum and she's the best thing that has happened to my business. And she didn't charge anything...I can only hope that I've made it worth her time, somehow.

So I believe most people need coaching/mentoring of some sort, but please do your due diligence. So many people parading about as coaches and I wouldn't trust them to coach my cat.

Originally Posted by lgibbon

The fact that it looks like 9 out of 10 people here are coaches,
should begin to tell you something.
It's like taking candy from a baby.
Save your money.
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- vladinla 10 years ago
  
  And again: thank you all! The topic definitely hit a nerve
  
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goldmineberry

Banned 10 years ago

Indeed, there are many self-proclaimed "Internet Marketing Gurus" out there but there are also REAL Internet Mentoring Coaches out there that are sincere and capable in helping newbies to get started and succeed online.

I believe that real and honest mentoring coaches exist but you will need to find one that suits your goals and plans.

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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by goldmineberry

Indeed, there are many self-proclaimed "Internet Marketing Gurus" out there but there are also REAL Internet Mentoring Coaches out there that are sincere and capable in helping newbies to get started and succeed online.

I believe that real and honest mentoring coaches exist but you will need to find one that suits your goals and plans.

There is a huge blurring of the lines in this industry. One reason I see is that the IM sea is filled with minnows who just want to become predator shark over night... without the work and patience involved.

This demand gives rise to people who are happy to sell them the magic bullet. Sadly, many of them do not possess the magic bullet.

This is wrong and I do not condone the practice. If someone promises to coach you and implies a specific result then should be able to back it up with real results for you. The reality is that they know that the minnows will lose patience and look elsewhere for another magic bullet.

So probably - and I am guessing - 8 times out of ten, these so called coaches are not held accountable because their students just desert them and move on.

These are what I call the internet vultures and I have fallen prey to 1 or 2 in my early days.

I also think that too many people confuse a system / model with coaching. This is also incorrect in my humble opinion.

They say that they want to be coached, but they are not drawn to the coach... rather they are drawn to the system and then want someone to help them / do it for them. This is a poor way to approach the whole situation. Once again in my humble opinion.

In my view, yes a coach should have some knowledge of the business you are in, but just as importantly, they must be able to help you determine what your real goals are... what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are.

Once you have this in place, only then should you be looking at a suitable system or business model to pursue. The initial coach's job is now done.

Once you have your system, if you are still struggling to understand it or implement it, then you can seek an expert coach who understands it.

In my humble opinion of course. :p

Sal

PS: Allow me to give what would be a real life example...

I am great at ideas and product creation. I am laso good a deciphering information and presenting it in a step-by-step way so that others can make sense of it.

However, I am lousy at the day to day functions of running a business and scaling that business. In other words, I get cluttered when it comes to business strategy.

So in this case, someone like Coby for example, would be a great coach given his background.

Do I care that he doesn't understand html or sales copy... or if he doesn't know a zack about membership sites? No, not really. His job would be to help me systemize my business and put in steps and procedures to help it grow.

If want a marketing coach then I would probably look elsewhere.

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John Romaine

10 years ago

How many of you would be interested in my help at $49 a month?

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John Romaine

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Romaine

How many of you would be interested in my help at $49 a month?

I posted this up two nights back to see how many would respond.

You know how many people got in touch?

ZERO.

Everyone wants help. No one is serious enough to pay for it.

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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Romaine

I posted this up two nights back to see how many would respond.

You know how many people got in touch?

ZERO.

Everyone wants help. No one is serious enough to pay for it.

A payment link might have helped.

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TiffanyLambert

10 years ago

I think the best coaches aren't the ones who hold your hand and walk you through things step by step. The software, courses, etc., work - but you have to implement them exactly as told, verbatim and thoroughly.

Then what you do is, if you hit a snag and something's not working, then you either look for the answer and then break through the obstacle, or you get in touch with the product owner and ask for help.

IE: I do that with my products. Whether ghostwriting or Squidoo or whatever, if someone implements, they can then email me with a link saying, "Hey I did the ___ course and here's a link to my page but it isn't ranking/converting,whatever..."

So then I go look and inevitably, there's something missing that was in the course that they haven't done, so I can point it out then.

That's not to say all marketers will do that - many wont

As for a mentor, I think most step by step ones will have their own course you should implement step by step. And that might not be a good fit for you.

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IMSince2003

10 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

I think the best coaches aren't the ones who hold your hand and walk you through things step by step. The software, courses, etc., work - but you have to implement them exactly as told, verbatim and thoroughly.

Then what you do is, if you hit a snag and something's not working, then you either look for the answer and then break through the obstacle, or you get in touch with the product owner and ask for help.

IE: I do that with my products. Whether ghostwriting or Squidoo or whatever, if someone implements, they can then email me with a link saying, "Hey I did the ___ course and here's a link to my page but it isn't ranking/converting,whatever..."

So then I go look and inevitably, there's something missing that was in the course that they haven't done, so I can point it out then.

That's not to say all marketers will do that - many wont

As for a mentor, I think most step by step ones will have their own course you should implement step by step. And that might not be a good fit for you.

Yes, YOU do this as a successful, knowledgeable and motivated warrior. There are many people out there who create products based upon ideas that they've never implemented and have no idea how to help. Also, many coaches don't have time to just answer a specific question or two to get a fellow warrior "unstuck". Some do, and it's worth finding a coach who can help you, especially when the wso or product creator cannot.

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CaesarSEO

10 years ago

From my point of view, the "real big coaches" don't need WSOs to gather their coaching students.

So if you see someone with a WSO calling himself a coach and charges under $500/month be prepared to be handed a username and a password where you would be "coached" by some booring videos.

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getrichinfo

10 years ago

if you want learn internet marketing, learn from people who had done it.

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JohnyEnglish

10 years ago

Same as my thinking.. Many reviews about we can do it instead of i made money with this..

From my view people who launch coaching is someone who already tired made money with his system.. So when they offer coaching they will show their money atm screen shot to people.

People who really making big money will have no time to coach other.. Too many internet millionaire.. They stay under radar..

For me experience is the best coach ever..

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NewRiseDigital

10 years ago

Everyone should have a mentor, but not everyone needs a coach.

To make a good analogy with Sports Coaching, most athletes hire specific coaches to work on a specific aspect of their game. They'll also make smart decisions on getting the best coach for that specific aspect. So they'd get a sports psychologist for their mental game, and a technique coach for their physical game.

So when selecting a coach, get to know them first, find out what they have achieved themselves, and build up a relationship before you jump in and hire them. A good coach will be dedicated to delivering on their promises whatever it takes. That's why they're a good coach. Most come by recommendation only.

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daniell686

10 years ago

Hi,

From my understanding I'd tell you that nobody is going to tell you what to do unless you spend money with the "coach", once you spend money with him, he would tell you "what works for me doesn't mean it will work for you" (which can be true but it is not mostly), so when you are newbie that phrase can make you confused (and unsafe) and finally you will obviously give up. So I would suggest you that when you find a mentor make sure he takes care about the "human" side first, make sure he wants to spend time with you BEFORE paying for anything, that you can get an idea of what kind of person he is cause you need someone who you can trust.

Anyway, if you need help don't hesitate to write me as I'll be delighted to help you in any way I can.

Cheers.

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theory expert

Banned 10 years ago

I get #1 and #3...

#3 is a heavy indicator that it is easier to teach than it is to go into business. I remember a guy doing an interview and he was into personal training business. He said it was less stressful to sell info products then it was to take on personal training clients and all that was involved with that.

Sal technically you could spend time building your investment portfolio by staying up on current events, and, seeking out more deals. I am not sure if you are doing REIT's or are you into physical real estate properties, but, aside from the RE industry I would think you could seek out other investment deals to add to your portfolio.

Good answer though.

It is your business however you want to approach it. I'm just thinking and babbling.

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Jeffery

10 years ago

One reason why people coach other people is the.. lifestyle. My Uncle was a great example of a person that built a successful reseller business and told me constantly it could all go away tomorrow. I asked him "how" and explained that the business itself involves a lot of his time. So much of his time that the business took him away from his family, friends, and good health.

He eventually discovered a way to make almost the same income.. coaching. He sold off contracts and coached the buyers. He also discovered a new lifestyle. A lifestyle that he did not demand 100% of his time. Instead of traveling the country or spending all day at the office on the telephone with new accounts.. he spent an average of 40 hours a month.. coaching the buyers of his past businesses.

Before the end (RIP) he spent most of his time with his family and friends in a very comfortable and happy lifestyle.

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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeffery

One reason why people coach other people is the.. lifestyle. My Uncle was a great example of a person that built a successful reseller business and told me constantly it could all go away tomorrow. I asked him "how" and explained that the business itself involves a lot of his time. So much of his time that the business took him away from his family, friends, and good health.

He eventually discovered a way to make almost the same income.. coaching. He sold off contracts and coached the buyers. He also discovered a new lifestyle. A lifestyle that he did not demand 100% of his time. Instead of traveling the country or spending all day at the office on the telephone with new accounts.. he spent an average of 40 hours a month.. coaching the buyers of his past businesses.

Before the end (RIP) he spent most of his time with his family and friends in a very comfortable and happy lifestyle.

Wasn't it the guy from Wal Mart who on his death bed said "I blew it"? Referring to his failure to enjoy time with his family.

@ Theory expert. There are many things we can do to be honest. Like I said... how much is enough? The rpoblem I have always had is that once I conquer the mountain, I get bored and seek new challenges. IM is and was one of those new challenges... as was the stock market... as was real estate...

But back tot he coaching debate...

AA has made a broad assumption and so far has not backed his / her opinion with facts.

As far as dropping fees goes, I have had and still get people from here either PMíng me or hitting me up on skype looking for help.

I will usually afford them some time to get a feel for where they are at. Here is what I have found: Almost without exception everyone I offer free help to never follows through, hardly ever says thanks, and I rarely hear back from them. Most probably because they don't like my message that if they are serious, they have to build a real business. They are looking for a quick fix. So these are not people I wish to waste my time with.

On the other hand, I have reached out to some serious warriors and have worked with them because they have shown serious commitment. These types, I am happy to spend most of my day helping them succeed.

Coz that's how I roll.

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ZephyrIon

10 years ago

I've coached a few people the past week, they all couldn't be happier.

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sal64

10 years ago

Which does beg the question... why waste time on a forum when you can use that time growing your business?

Good point, Coby.

where I have taken issue is that the poster has stated his opinion based on a half truth cliche.

The real world reality is that does who can - do and those who can't - usually go back to the paid workforce. Then there are those who just like working with others and helping them achieve their goals.

Once again, I have gone into detail regarding what I do, how I think and why I do it. I cannot speak for others.

what I do await are some facts that back up this notion that those who can - do and the rest teach.

Sal

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SteveSRS

10 years ago

Originally Posted by amuro

I can name three.

John Thornhill, Mike Filsaime and Omar Martin.

I know because I have invested and gone through their courses.

Those are some great marketers but unless you are paying over 500$ per month completely useless as coaches! You really think they are going to spend personal time with you for 50 bucks a month? Of course not! Those are products like mentioned before.. pre-recorded videos, nothing more then a course and that is NOT coaching.

Originally Posted by CaesarSEO

From my point of view, the "real big coaches" don't need WSOs to gather their coaching students.

So if you see someone with a WSO calling himself a coach and charges under $500/month be prepared to be handed a username and a password where you would be "coached" by some booring videos.

Agreed!

I took about 3 months searching my current (and first) coach. I talked to many people offering coaching programs, first reply is important but you need to follow up always. Also if you are directly very enthusiastic about a potential coach you need to follow up to make sure you are a good match.

What a coach should do in my opinion:
- provide you guidance with a plan starting from the start (no matter how experienced you are, and yes in the beginning sometimes things can be a bit 'boring'). In my case we started with exercises to find where our passions are (I'm in a coaching group with 18 people) and our talents are. At times it seemed childish and boring but I def learned some thing about myself and what I should be doing!

- A vital part of a coach' job is getting YOU connected, in the end that is what matters.. Get from behind your computer, go meet people, get out of your comfort zone for a while, perhaps just start by putting your own photo online in forums on your site be your person... be YOUR brand (that is exactly what guys like Omar, Mike, John etc do)! On the flip-side you can of course also choose to stay in the background but you'll still need those contacts!

- A coach should also provide resources (this can be in many different forms)

Lastly (goes almost without saying) a coach should always provide you with his direct email box and person mobile number and not do all this via some internet system

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Folusho Orokunle

10 years ago

I sold off most of my IM sites 3 years ago to do coaching full time because honestly there was't enough time to do both after I got married and wife gave birth to our first daughter.

3 yrs later: I still love coaching but like someone said above I think it should be more organic....

When I started coaching I had a six figure business without coaching, but after selling off all of my internet real estate, it's just not as fun coaching other people when they don't have the same level of passion and desire for success.

About 1 out of every 5 clients makes it worth it though, but my time is very valuable as well, so I often feel like I'm wasting time with the other 4.

My solution is to build my internet empire back up again and offer info products that have some coaching elements.

In conclusion: Finding a coach is not like finding the right product, because you're dealing with a REAL human being.

Do you like their style?

Do you like their lifestyle?

Their work ethic?

Their moral business standards?

How much access you get to them?

All of these are factors you have to consider.

And lastly...what type of successes have they had?

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Make Money Ninja

10 years ago

I would consider coaching, i make low 5-figures as a gambling affiliate.

My method isnt easy work. You either need to work all hours god sends, or invest money paying good people to do the work for you. Either way its not going to be easy.

PM if interested.

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kpmedia

10 years ago

Most people that know this stuff are doing it -- not teaching. Those who can't, teach. I know it's a bad cliche, but I find it to be very true with affiliate marketing. I've found only 1-2 that are useful for tips. In each case, it was a unique kind of person that was driven to help others. Like that teacher you may have had, who worked two jobs, or quit it to teach. The person could do AND teach.

Far, far, far too many people don't know their @ss from a paper bag. It's easy to spot these quacks if you know anything about marketing (REAL marketing). Many of them parrot myths like "SEO hosting" (IP based) and similar nonsense. They try to trick SE's instead of helping people create valuable long-term sites that make money.

It's sad, really. A lot of good people get bilked of their money by charlatans.

Just be careful, and be diligent.
Choose, but choose wisely!

Also, expensive doesn't mean good. Some of the best people are very reasonable. The quacks are the ones charging ridiculous high amounts.

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sal64

10 years ago

I paid $20k for 3 months. weekly calls, access to resources, accountability, brainstorming and critiques.

They guy as stated knew nothing about real estate, but he knew how to get me organized. He is from the weight loss / fitness niche.

Bottom line is that if you want to be coached by someone whohas a major business, then expect to pay heaps because they value their time and charge accordingly.

If you want someone to help you get started and organized, then you will pay less.

If you want someone to just set the whole thing up for you... that's another story.

There's no one-size-fits-all.

I see a lot of people on here asking for mentors and coaches, and there were some great threads a while back... but the harsh reality is that they either cannot afford or don't want to pay the price in both fees and accountability.

No amount of coaching or products will help you unless you have the right mindset. Now I can see why noobs get frustrated. It's part due to being sold on the myth of what it takes to be a success in IM... and probably more due to the sheer volume of information and subsequent overwhelm. Once again, I have been there myself.

For someone like this, you may consider a preliminary type of mentoring program that isn't attached to one specific business model. Then once you are organized, decide a model that will best help you achieve your goals.

Problem is that people join a program based on what it promises... not if it suits them. Massive difference here.

Why? Because you pay your dues, get started and then realize that the model isn't for you. so you quit with nothing to show for it. Do this a few times and I can understand why people become cynical about the whole industry.

It;s easy to say just do... but almost everyone, including myself have weaknesses. so yeah, a good coach is a great way to fill in the gaps.

Some will say they are a success and didn't need a coach. But even these people can take their business higher with a great coach.

Best of success,

sal

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Nightengale 10 years ago

What Sal said.

Different people will get different results from the same coaching for all the reasons he said. Mindset, skill set, work ethic, commitment, contacts, starting point, etc. And as he pointed out, just because a coach has had great results and is willing to teach you, it doesn't mean it's the best fit for you.

Another issue is your relationship with your coach. You can line up 10 coaches teaching roughly the same thing and you'll only resonate with 1-3 of them. The rest would be a bad fit for you. Not because they're not honest or don't know their stuff, but just because you don't have the right chemistry with them.

Coaching is much more personal than just going through a course. So it's important to have a good relationship with your coach and feel good about them, their personal style, etc.

There were two primary reasons I LOVE my coach and it was such a good fit for me with her:

1. Her "thing" was/is business models and she taught a very specific business model. And she's only one of two people providing this info.

A business model is the entire skeleton/framework of your business. EVERYTHING ELSE hangs on your business model. So what she taught was very comprehensive and holistic. EVERYTHING about my business is affected by my business model.

So I wasn't paying for just tactics, systems or methods.

2. I love her style and really resonated with her on a personal level. She's a very successful entrepreneur (7 figures), yet she's very soft-spoken and feminine -- and a mom of 4 kids.

For me, she epitomizes what a woman in business should be and I have a HUGE respect for her. I want to be like her when I grow up!

So paying that kind of money to a coach was about more than just the hard-core "how-to's." It was about those intangible things too. I would never have paid that much money to someone I just didn't like -- no matter how successful they were.

(Glad to know I'm not the only one who's paid thousands for coaching. )

Michelle
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khooster1

10 years ago

I have a different opinion about mentoring.

From my previous posts, I mentioned about
the various mentoring programs I went.
Most are craps..
They give Suggestions/ opinions to you,
Stressing you to take actions..

These stuffs are pretty useless.
In fact, it make me even more confused.
They kept telling you keep up the good works
When your results are simply horrible.

It is only when I met my mentor.
PM if you wish to know who he is.

He is very direct in addressing my problem ( I was doing too much stuffs at a go)
He understand personal situation such as my budget, time commitment, etc.
With that, he realigned my IM expectations

He simply show me the system that he is using.
And cut down my tasks to the a few key ones (in fact, only two tasks)
Beside this, He gave me the exact stuffs that he used to sell/ market.
He is very different from my past mentors who are full of theory/concepts.
You can get these anywhere in WF.

This benefit me a lot.
I was able to immediately kick-start the system.
Sales came in pretty fast and consistently.

I am not a full time Internet Marketer.
I run a 3D visualization business, which is my passion.
With the extra iM income of around 3k per month,
I can now get to choose the 3D visualization jobs I like.
I am very happy with my lifestyle now..
I don't have to work for money, yet enjoying what I love doing..

My suggestion: you need to access your expectations..
Got to understand yourself better
Then go for proper coaching..
If not, you will end up doing what others are doing..
You won't enjoy it..
Thus giving up when the situation is difficult..

Hope this helps!!

.

Thanks

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moosag

10 years ago

The one thing I have noticed in this thread is that the so called people who are currently advertising high ticket item coaching programs are not commenting in this thread at all.

If you spend a week on this forum and just about read 10+ pages into every forum and sub forum you would soon find out who is who, who offers what and a fairly accurate view on their reputation.

There will always exist people in this world that "need" to have their hands held. Sometimes common sense ain't too common and what some people would consider obvious others consider mind blowing just because you knew what others did not.

I hate training. I have been self taught all my life. I learn faster on my own and pick up things faster on my own. If my income is not at the level I want it to be it is purely because of my own laziness. I took all the knowledge I amassed over the years in IM and built myself the type of income streams I wanted. But as of last night after reviewing many coaching programs out there I have decided to pay Igor Kheifets entrance fee of $100 to see if he will coach me. (In no way at all am I trying to promote his offer!)

The point I am trying to make is that I have a desire to make more money. I can either spend another 100/0 hours finding the best money making system out there, building, tweaking, trying, etc. Or pay a PRO who can save me those 100 or 1000 hours get me to the finish line faster. The point is that Coaching programs serve their purpose. Whether Igor accepts me or not I will still end up making my desired amount of money a month. With his training it will take me e.g. 3-6 months. Without 1-2 years. Either way I will get there.

The one thing that people fail to understand is that you not going to make decent money online until you roll your sleeves up and start putting in really F-kin blood, sweat and tears into your work. Nothing comes for free in this world. You need to work for it. And ultimately your failure is your own fault. You can place the blame on whoever you want to place blame on. People love to make excuses for themselves.

Very few and honest people take full responsibility for their actions or lack of actions in this world.

It is far easier to lay the blame at someones door and make a ton of excuses as to why this or that did not work out. At the end of the day you doing yourself the biggest disservice to yourself!!

Even if you spend 100k per annum on training, coaching, courses, traffic, etc... and you don't find much success. At least you doing 2000% more than the average person out there. You are at least trying to change your situation and make a better life for yourself. Whether it takes you 1 day or 20 years. The key is to keep trying, learning, sharing, giving and living!

We all are on this forum because first and foremost we want to make $$$!!! We all want to better our financial situations. We all are learning skills that the average person out there does not know. We have all made mistakes. We have made successes or are on the verge of success. We have wasted money and made money. Etc... Etc... Etc...

If you have to go through 10 coaching programs to finally get to the 1 that makes you a million dollars you will tell yourself it was all money well spent.

But

If you spend 20k on coaching and just keep spending and not making anything back. Then don't you think the problem is you??? And not the coaching programs?? Even if they are scammers and don't deliver?? Excuses will take you nowhere. Take responsibility for your actions and be honest and realistic about your expectations and your capabilities. A little self & honest prospective goes a long way!!!

Wishing you all success!
MG

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IMSince2003

10 years ago

Originally Posted by vladinla

Hi all,

As many people on WF I feel that I'm not getting it. ALL sorts of info and software is available. But it all doesn't seem to work as advertised.

But apparently there are some people out there who GET it. And they are making money. Excellent!

So, this situation naturally makes one think of coaching, gaining some wisdom first hand. NOT FOR FREE of course!

BUT! When I read the reviews for many different coaching offers (carefully) I realized this:

1. Most of the success stories (I mean actually making money stories) are usually coming from literally 1-2 people per thread, and they just get recycled throughout the thread.
2. ALL the exited reviews are basically just talking about the coach being a wonderful human being and coaching being "exciting". Who the F cares! Nobody is actually saying they made $$$$$$. They are just getting closer, and closer, and closer.

Any thoughts? Any REAL coaching experiences?

AND the most important question: are there any IM Marketers out there who can actually properly teach, train, coach? WHO ARE HONEST.

Those IM Marketers who feel they can offer value and are ready to work with mature & intelligent person, please PM me by all means!

Thanks!

You make a whole bunch of assertions in your post which are not necessarily true. For example, you say that there is a lot of info out there but it does not perform as advertised. Well, there are so many good WSOs on the forum that can make money if properly applied. This has been said over and over again in the forum. Most people simply don't want to work hard for the results. They keep hopping from idea to idea without putting in the required effort. Of course, when they fail, they blame the course or the teaching. Sometimes they are right, but mostly it's due to a lack of effort.

Having coached a lot of people, I've experienced the same thing. Out of 100 people, 1 or 2 people are self starters. These people only need a nudge or two and run with the ball so to speak. The rest, even when you give them explicit instructions don't even bother to do the work or respond to your reminders or support emails. Once, I had someone pay for the full coaching program and never respond again! Yes, no response via email or Skype. Yet, I see them posting questions on the forum that I could have answered easily. Why? I don't know.

Even the people who made money with the things they were taught need to be chased around just for a simple testimonial. Yes, it is true. One thing or another happens and your offer thread really is the last thing on their to do list.

Having said all of this, I hope you find a mentor who can help you. You need to look at the offer to make sure that it's one-on-one and that you will be discussing things that are based on YOUR interests and skills. Hope this helps and good luck.

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Malcolm Thomas

10 years ago

In my opinion there are many people out there who would benefit from having a coach, but there are also many people who would NOT benefit from having a coach.

It all comes down to taking action and holding your own self accountable.

Having a personal coach is a wonderful thing to have but the onus is still on you to do the work.

If you're someone who takes action and listens well and doesn't make excuses, then having a coach will enable you to accelerate your learning curve and make money much faster.

But if you're someone who is still looking for the next get rich quick scheme and isn't willing to put in the necessary work to achieve success, then having a coach is useless and will only end up hurting your bank account.

As always, due diligence is required when choosing a coach.

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JWC

10 years ago

I truly believe it depends on your mindset, there are no right or wrong answers I have tried both ways.

After struggling for 2 years plus and buying just about anything I thought could help, I was chasing my tail, getting broke and confused.

I now have a mentor I am more than happy with, he has given me direction and focus and I have the support of other like minded individuals in the training group, we have weekly training calls (webinars), it is not cheap but I needed it.

When choosing a mentor do your research first, pick a mentor who gives live training at times you can attend, its no good if your training is at 2am or 3am in your local time because they are on a different time zone etc.

I have witnessed some good success stories within the group one guy just made $56K in his first product launch so coaching works but only if you are committed. Coaching is guidance you still have to put in a lot of work.

I have just finished my first info product and next stage is to make videos to back it up. I now consider myself an experienced newbie as I am learning things at a much faster rate than my pre-mentoring days and a product launch is a reality not just an incoming email.

Best advice received Stop buying , Start selling!

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DubDubDubDot

10 years ago

Originally Posted by JWC

I have witnessed some good success stories within the group one guy just made $56K in his first product launch so coaching works

Be careful with that. We know that some coaches post to forums using fictitious characters recommending themselves. It only makes sense that they would deploy the same concept in their membership forum to keep spirits high (and thus retain members for another month).

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

So if they coach, advise, teach, train, and support how is that different, besides scale, from what's being talked about here?

Franchise providers have a vested interest in the franchise's success. McDonald's charges franchise owners significant monthly fees for royalties, rent and other things.

How many MMO gurus have a vested interest in the success of their customer? What motive do they have to provide the latest and greatest information? How do you know the guru is even capable of providing that? With McDonald's there is no question about what you are getting.

Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster

I guess professors and teachers who teach business at big universities should stop teaching because they can obviously make more money creating their own businesses right?

Universities teach the skills of the trade, not specific business models. So this commonly used rebuttal holds no water.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

There's no need to cast stones and judge that someone will fail. When you do that, you're bashing/killing others' hopes and dreams.

Some people have Tony Robbins playing in the background, others light up the crack pipe and still others buy into MMO products that make them feel good about their future. It's all the same drug, and you are an addict that spent $20,000 on it. Cut ties with these vultures immediately. DO NOT give them another penny. Most of those people you listed earlier are so Hollywood and obviously putting on a front.

I'm sorry, but this realization has to hit you at some point. Better now than in another year or two when you are $30k, $40k, $50k in the hole. And NO, accepting this as fact doesn't mean you are accepting defeat. What you do after stopping this bleeding is up to you.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Dani Johnson (of Secret Millionaire fame) was just here in FL, in Orlando, this weekend doing her First Steps to Success seminar. If you follow her at all, you know she "volunteers" her time doing these seminars all over the country every month. Profits from the events are donated to charity as she doesn't need the income.

Don't be so naive. It's called a promotional tour. I'm sure she isn't donating the money from the book sales the tour generates. She obviously found out she can reach more people by offering to do the seminars for free. Start looking at things from this perspective from now on instead of taking everything at face value.

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Curtis2011

10 years ago

Originally Posted by vladinla

2. ALL the exited reviews are basically just talking about the coach being a wonderful human being and coaching being "exciting". Who the F cares! Nobody is actually saying they made $$$$$$. They are just getting closer, and closer, and closer.

This is the case with most reviews for most products.

You can usually tell if the product is actually good if the reviewers are saying they actually made money.

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Mark Singletary

10 years ago

It always amuses me when people start the "if you could do it you'd be doing it yourself instead of helping someone else building their business" argument or the "if you were so successful you wouldn't share your secrets for $x" argument.

Why amusing?

Simply because some of the most powerful and successful companies in the world do both - sell to the end customer AND teach others how to build their business. Every hear of McDonald's, Wendy's, Yum Brands, or Jiffy Lube, Toyota, Ford, etc.? Note that Burger King is moving to an franchise owned model - which means they won't be doing it at all - just teaching it.

Jiffy Lube stores are entirely owned by others too. I'm sure there are others like them, though.

If they were so successful, they wouldn't have time to help others, right?
If they were so successful, they wouldn't be teaching others how to make money, right?
If they were so successful, they wouldn't be sharing their secrets, right?
If they were so successful, they would just open up their own corporate stores and never help anyone else open their own store, right?
If they were so successful, they wouldn't sell their secrets, right?

This list, which is many pages long in its entirety, isn't exactly made up of companies known as scammers or charlatans, now is it? Why not? Because this model is a highly successful and highly used model in the real world and everyone with any business sense or knowledge knows it.

Mark

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Mark Singletary

10 years ago

Ken - it's the same concept.

They give their client a model to run their business. They teach them how to run it.
They give them ongoing support. They try to help them succeed even though ultimate success is up to the individual owner.

So if they coach, advise, teach, train, and support how is that different, besides scale, from what's being talked about here?

Mark

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ProsperousCoach

10 years ago

Coaching works.

Having a mentor or coach can give you a perspective you can't get on your own. You are too close to your business to see the faults. You are too close to see your strengths. An unbiased coach can help you strategize and plan effectively.

I advise you to be careful in selecting your coach. Coach training schools have turned out graduates in large numbers. Just because someone has had coach training doesn't mean they have expertise in what you want to accomplish.

As others have said, have an idea of what you want to accomplish. Find someone who had done what you want to do. Also, many people think they know how to coach when they are really just being a consultant. A good coach will inspire you. A good coach will tell you the truth. If you're lazy they will tell you.

Those who doubt coaching have either never had a coach or had the wrong coach. I've worked with three coaches. I wouldn't be where I am without coaching and it was worth every penny.

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sdentrepreneur

10 years ago

I found a mentor/coach in 2007, best thing I ever did. I currently coach and mentor people who want to sell services to business owners. Offline Marketing, what I have found, is I can help a very large majority of the people that take my course but sadly there are some people who don't want to put in the time and effort to be successful.

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Coby

10 years ago

I just remembered that I had a teacher in one of my Entrepreneurship classes that owned several business and is also a venture capitalist that is worth millions...

He even drove 2 hours one way to come teach...

Why?

He likes to teach!

He even wrote a book and was on T.V.

His name is Doug Tatum.

But maybe he is the exception?

Cheers,
Coby

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xInd

10 years ago

I have provided many people with honest coaching, advice, mentoring, training many times over the years. I have received lots of it as well. What goes around comes around.

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joshuamason

10 years ago

It took me going through a few bad decisions to find the right coach and mentor that was able to talk WITH me and not TO me. I know that sounds a bit corny, but damn is it true. I am working with 2 of the best right now:
1. Alex Jeffreys
2. Dean Holland (who is actually a student of Alex's)

Both of them can comprehend and explain things in a way that I have not experienced before. But you really cannot take anyone's word for it...You just have to get down into the barrel and get dirty...Give it a shot! But even an amazing coach for one will not work for another. It truly is a very personal preference. Again...

All you can do is just give it a try! Yes, it will cost some $$, but with these 2 guys, I already know I'm getting every penny's worth.

Good luck!

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cloudstrife

10 years ago

I would never have the patience to be a coach, but there are some good coaches out there. I have had the privilege of working with two of them, and they helped me out a lot!

If you would really like to know who I have worked with, PM me.

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sal64

10 years ago

If we purely judge this on the those who can -do concept then by this very definitons means that:

Affiliates whos et up websites with product reviews that they have never purchased or own have to be charlatans.

Anyone who has promoted an affiliate product and not refunded their commisssion to the customer is also a charlatan.

Anyone who has spun articles in order to gain an advantage by deception is also a charlatan.

And what about all the people who sell concepts with their own spin? Surely they are also charlatans.

Then again...

If we also accept the argument that REAL business people wouldn't coach, then let's examine some math...

I could create and sell an info product (which I did) for $97 and an upsell of $147.00.

Create it once and get paid every time I sell it. Cool concept.

But hang on a sec... isn't being a REAL business person about maximizing your ROI?

Ok so let's say I want to make $500k a year. How many copies of my product would I have to sell to do this - not withstanding that affiliates will take 50% because by my very exostance I am a charlatan.

On the other hand, how many customers would I need if I had a skill that I can deploy to help others achieve their goals... and this was in fact a $5k or $10k coaching program that runs for 6 months?

That's an easy one.,.. depending om fees I would need 50 to 100 customers per year.

So am I missing something here? Or should I just keep plodding along hoping to win the clickbank lottery?

Sal

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RachelLily

10 years ago

In the real world, mentors are usually organic relationships without specific titles, goals or responsibilities. Mentors are most often simply experienced people you get to know and look to for advice, informally and organically. They're people you go to coffee with, people you ask for guidance, and people you call when there's a big decision to make.

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revforcemayan

10 years ago

I have met good coaches here, and they were honest too, about 75%,

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John Romaine

10 years ago

Cmon man, you've made your point, let it go.

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theory expert

Banned 10 years ago

Just random thoughts; for a noob, a teacher can teach a person to get to a certain level, like make his/her first dollar.

A teacher may can get you up to $400, $500 a month then you outgrow that coach and need one to take you to another level.
Same as coaches in sports.
A coach can get a team to the playoffs every year, but, if he can't get that team to win a championship he might get fired. That team needs a new coach to take them to the championship level.

Maybe the clients are somewhat to blame for not knowing what they need. Eyes bigger than the stomach.

Though, the difference between this business and any other is the income claims attached to it, which, makes people skeptical because someone is claiming to change your income status, and, therein lies the scrutiny.

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lgibbon Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by theory expert

Same as coaches in sports.

I doubt that very much.
They probably have written qualifications to show for it.
I wonder how many "coaches" here have?
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- IMSince2003 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by lgibbon
  
  I doubt that very much.
  They probably have written qualifications to show for it.
  I wonder how many "coaches" here have?
  
  As you hinted, this is an unregulated area. Anyone at any level of expertise can put up their "coaching shingle" and be ready for business at a moment's notice. Of course this means that the potential for getting ripped off is huge and it makes doing your due diligence priority ONE. Know who you're talking to and find out if your potential coach has satisfied clients willing to talk with you AND if said coach offers a free and/or low cost introductory session to see if your needs and their experience/temperament suit you. That's just common sense
  
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sal64

10 years ago

Originally Posted by theory expert

Just random thoughts; for a noob, a teacher can teach a person to get to a certain level, like make his/her first dollar.

A teacher may can get you up to $400, $500 a month then you outgrow that coach and need one to take you to another level.
Same as coaches in sports.
A coach can get a team to the playoffs every year, but, if he can't get that team to win a championship he might get fired. That team needs a new coach to take them to the championship level.

Maybe the clients are somewhat to blame for not knowing what they need. Eyes bigger than the stomach.

Though, the difference between this business and any other is the income claims attached to it, which, makes people skeptical because someone is claiming to change your income status, and, therein lies the scrutiny.

I think your random thoughts are pretty accurate to be honest.

Sal

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Kim Standerline

10 years ago

To reiterate what I said in an earlier post.

I joined a coaching group a few weeks ago for a specific online subject. I thought I knew quite a lot about said subject, after all I've been online on and off since 2002.

Seems everything I "thought" was pretty much outdated. I've learned a ton of stuff this last few weeks and its stuff I've been able to put into action for all of my sites plus new ones and I'm already seeing results.

So does coaching work?

Yes it does depending on whom is doing the coaching. (And I'd agree there are some charlatans out there).

The person's coaching group whom I belong to is very successful in his own right. Yet I haven't paid a huge fortune for the coaching. (Maybe enough to make you blink a tad).

The point I'm making is I'm living proof that coaching does work as long as it's done correctly. Maybe, just maybe, many of you out there who are disillusioned about the whole coaching model didn't give it what you should have done.

I've spent hours this last few weeks at the computer going through the course, sitting in on webinars and visiting our forum etc. It was really tempting to give it up and watch the telly sometimes, (I'm way behind on Coronation Street), but I've persevered and I'm so pleased I did.

I wonder how many people on this thread have tried similar stuff and gave it up because it was hard work or they didn't get results quick enough etc, so decided the whole model didn't work.

There's always been a lot of shiny object syndrome on this forum, I see a lot hasn't changed.

Kim

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Angela Wills

10 years ago

Really interesting replies here, I'm going to try to read them all (got through a page so far) but I wanted to add my $0.02 before I get distracted.

I believe in coaching. I also believe there are plenty of people out there to help. I've been coached by many people over the years, each one for a specific reason at a specific season of my business.

I don't believe I'll hire ONE coach and strike it rich. I don't believe coaching works that way. I believe coaches do help you move forward bit by bit. I also think that sometimes we hear things from coaches we are not ready to use.

One of my first coaches was a great lady named Alice Seba and I paid about $250 for a four week coaching program from her. She taught me a LOT about finding keywords, looking for affiliate programs to promote and finding PLR content to add to my sites. At the time the technique she told me for putting it all together just really didn't CLICK for me. I think I just wasn't 'mature' enough in my business smarts yet to make it work.

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Kim Standerline

10 years ago

Alice Seba

A lovely lady, I might add

Kim

Originally Posted by Angela Wills

Really interesting replies here, I'm going to try to read them all (got through a page so far) but I wanted to add my $0.02 before I get distracted.

I believe in coaching. I also believe there are plenty of people out there to help. I've been coached by many people over the years, each one for a specific reason at a specific season of my business.

I don't believe I'll hire ONE coach and strike it rich. I don't believe coaching works that way. I believe coaches do help you move forward bit by bit. I also think that sometimes we hear things from coaches we are not ready to use.

One of my first coaches was a great lady named Alice Seba and I paid about $250 for a four week coaching program from her. She taught me a LOT about finding keywords, looking for affiliate programs to promote and finding PLR content to add to my sites. At the time the technique she told me for putting it all together just really didn't CLICK for me. I think I just wasn't 'mature' enough in my business smarts yet to make it work.

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Jeffery

10 years ago

The "REAL Coach"

Snickers Commercial Feat. Robin Williams - YouTube

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Kim Standerline 10 years ago

You've got me bugged now about the name of the elderly actress who plays the same role in the UK version of that advert.

It will come to me...

Originally Posted by Jeffery

The "REAL Coach"

Snickers Commercial Feat. Robin Williams - YouTube
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sal64

10 years ago

I think it's important to quote some profound words that had a lasting effect on my life from my greatest ever coach... let's call him Ed.

A horse is a horse of course of course
And no one can can talk to a horse of course
That is of course unless the horse
Is the famous Mr Ed!

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Rod Cortez

10 years ago

One of my first coaches was a great lady named Alice Seba and I paid about $250 for a four week coaching program from her. She taught me a LOT about finding keywords, looking for affiliate programs to promote and finding PLR content to add to my sites.

At the time the technique she told me for putting it all together just really didn't CLICK for me. I think I just wasn't 'mature' enough in my business smarts yet to make it work.

I'm SO glad you brought this up. It's an excellent point and very germaine to this discussion. No matter how good someone's coaching is, sometimes the individual being coached isn't ready for it (for whatever reason: life distractions, maturity level not up to par, suffering from "shiny new object" syndrome, etc.).

Many years ago, I chased after one of my coaches, built a relationship with him and everything. Today he's still one of the most successful affiliate marketers I've ever seen. Yet, when put me through his training I was befuddled. I told him there's no way what he was teaching could possibly work, and why? Because it required TOO much work to get it going.

In my own head, at the time, I thought there had to be a faster way. So I dismissed his teachings and kept on looking. Boy, did I waste about a good year there looking for something quicker and easier. I eventually followed what he taught me and it worked beautifully.

To be frank, at the time of his teachings I wasn't ready to learn what he was willing to teach me. I didn't have the maturity, nor the right focus.

RoD

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smodha

10 years ago

Coaches are like self-help books. Pretty useless if you don't take action.

Some people think the coach will do all the work and it's doesn't work like that. I coach my students to learn and practise all my SEO techniques. This builds up their confidence for when I have to "cut the umbilical cord".

Internet Marketing is a dynamic industry. You have to be able to stand on your own two feet to make it.

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Alex Blades 10 years ago

Wow, I see this thread has turned ugly

Honestly, coaching does work, if it wasn't for our ancestors teaching/coaching others, we'd still be living in caves. There are two main reasons why we are the dominate species.

One is our hands, which allows us to manipulate the things around us.

Two is our ability to learn and pass down information. If it wasn't for the early cave mans ability to teach and coach others, we'd still be living in caves, and climbing trees.

Is all coaching good? of course not, are there real mentors around? of course there is, does coaching work? of course it does.

It was coaching/teaching that allowed us to step out of caves, and into a more civilized world. We are all born knowing nothing, and are coached for a quarter of our lives. If you want to learn to make money online, then yes proper coaching will work.
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DubDubDubDot

10 years ago

Let's get the thread back on track to the original question:

"Does Real & Honest Coaching exist?"

Nobody ever suggested that coaching is never a good idea, but anyone can see that coaches in general are a waste of time. The struggle is finding the legitimate coaching needle in the haystack of pretenders. How does one go about doing that? What specifics should one look for in verifying a coach is who they say they are? What about any red flags?

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ToniMaltano

10 years ago

Just look at Jose Mourinho. The best football (or soccer) trainer out there at the moment. He never played himself.

Some people get more excited teaching others and being coaches instead of being an affiliate for example.

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lgibbon Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Toni Maltano

Just look at Jose Mourinho. The best football (or soccer) trainer out there at the moment. He never played himself.

No, but he took a coaching course and now has a badge to prove it.
The rules don't allow you to coach a football team without one.
If that happened here, there would be a few up the creek without a paddle.
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MovingAround

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Toni Maltano

Just look at Jose Mourinho. The best football (or soccer) trainer out there at the moment. He never played himself.

Some people get more excited teaching others and being coaches instead of being an affiliate for example.

Mourinho did play football; he just wasn't successful and dropped out. Also, Mourinho is the exception to the rule when it comes to coaches and he is not the best trainer out there (Vicente del Bosque is, according to FIFA).

Mourinho is actually known for having his teams display a lack of football and being uber defensive. Likewise, Mourinho was assistant coach of FC Barcelona with Bobby Robson and he (Mourinho) has had a lot of football exposure.

The only thing I'd say about Mourinho is that people with no talent for a given field (e.g. play football) can become good coaches through perseverance and banging their heads against the wall.

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Alex Blades

10 years ago

I'd pay a premium to get coaching from this guy, he could sell ice to the Eskimos

Schticky commercial [OFFICIAL] - YouTube

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Youronlinestuff

10 years ago

here OP
watch this
ART WILLIAMS JUST DO IT SPEECH - YouTube
process it
go out and live it
= success

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thedanbrown

10 years ago

There are definitely MANY MANY high value coaching programs that (if you take action... DUH!) will have you making a full-time income in a short time span. With the info you get really it's a matter of how massive your level of action is and your speed of implementation.

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sb06

10 years ago

I have a question about coaching... would anyone recommend a Coach/Mentor for someone like me who is on a shoestring budget?

I'm currently unemployed and recently had to drop 2 of my classes so needless to say I have time on my side.... I just don't have the money that a lot of the "big time" gurus want :/

I would be okay with group coaching, or even access to a membership site where I can communicate with fellow members who are trying to establish their own online business while working under the direction (more or less) of someone else?

I'm sick of doing reading, researching, and countless late night hours on all the big IM forums. I'm finally dedicated, willing, and 110% ready to start taking REAL action. (I already have a few wordpress sites up but haven't made any money yet... still need to do a lot of work) The only thing I'm missing is a coach or mentor who I could turn to when I have questions or need the extra motivation. So often I've ran into issues and really wished I had a solid person to contact who could give me help and advice :/

If there are any reputable coaches/mentors out there that are reading this and are willing to donate your time to help a newbie achieve her ultimate dream of creating a sustainable online income... drop me a PM!

(Hey it's worth a shot guys... don't hate)

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greenowl123

10 years ago

I had a good experience with Tristan Bull and learned quite a bit from him. Not sure if he still offers 1 on 1 coaching, but you can find out...

I also have learned a lot from Paul Nicholls and Rob Fore from training materials I bought from them. Tiffany Dow is also very knowledgeable. Not sure if any of the last 3 offer 1 on 1 coaching though, but if you can buy their WSO´s or other material, I highly recommend that you do so.

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MartinPlatt

10 years ago

It strikes me that you're looking for magic software that 'does something' for you. Yes, there are tools to help you speed up your tasks, but anything else, expect to do hard work.

I have seen a few people saying that they made money with coaches - it depends on who it is. I think you also need to bear in mind that earnings reflects on both the coach and the student. If the coach is awesome but the student is just looking for quick fixes, and no work, then that's not likely to result in good money.

That's why you see some coaches pre-qualifying people to make sure that they're willing to invest, and that they will take advice, and act upon in. When you find this sort of a set up, you are more likely to find a good coach in my opinion, as they're clearly saying that the results their students get are important to their reputation.

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PIWIA

10 years ago

I did not know we could use profanity on the site. But I go agree with you in this instance. I on da #$%^! cares.

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ysaac 10 years ago

hi! I agree with amuro.. i have learnt a lot from johnt thornhill , i think he is a genuine guy, but as everything you have to put the work, and that is what i think is the most important goal of a coaching program. The coach should be supportive and at the same time give you the confidence to reach your goals, steo by step and to show you that you can really make your frst money in a week or at least two weeks maximum in order to keep you motivated. I had good experience with the courses of kevin fahey and russel brunson and chris farrell. But I always try to learn more everyday and put in into action.
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Stuart Walker

10 years ago

I get multiple requests from my list and through PM from people asking me to coach them, people offering big bucks, so far I haven't taken them up on the offer because I've been busy travelling the world and making money on my own sites which I enjoy working on.

I've looked into offering coaching in the past few weeks but based on the surveys and research I've done recently the biggest reason for people not getting anywhere in making money online is due to lack of motivation or laziness and I'm not interested in helping anyone who just can't be bothered.

If I found someone who I thought was SERIOUS about making money online and was willing to work HARD then I would coach them but so far I don't think I've met anyone in that position, everyone just wants instant riches without putting the effort in.

Thanks

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Malcolm Thomas

10 years ago

It has been proven that hiring a coach or a mentor can help accelerate your learning curve dramatically.

Anyone who claims that having a coach isn't beneficial and doesn't help a person doesn't really understand business at all.

Almost every successful person I know has had or has a mentor.

They will notice your weak points and will give you the shortcuts to success.

If you can afford it, and are willing to do your due diligence, hire a coach, it will help you substancially.

Thanks

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John Romaine

10 years ago

Wow, this thread is still going.

I wonder how many people have taken action and actually gotten up off their backsides and asked a coach for help?

Thanks

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Does Real & Honest Coaching exist? Any REAL Mentors Out There?

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