To know a person watch what they do, not what they say.

37 replies
To know a person watch what they do, not what they say. How a person describes themselves is one thing. How a person conducts themselves is the real thing. A persons actions speak the truth about themselves, who they really are more than their own verbal or written description of themselves and only a very few people will describe themselves and conduct themselves in the same way
~Danny Santagato Boxing Trainer
Let me paraphrase that quote so it makes sense to Internet marketers:

To know how a marketer makes money watch what they do, not what they tell you to do. How a person describes a business is one thing. How a person conducts business themselves is the real thing.

A marketers actions speak the truth about themselves. How they really earn is more than their own verbal or written emails and sales letters and only a very few marketers will conduct their business in the same way they teach you to conduct yours.

Guys, the answer isn't in WSOs. It's in modeling. Become an observer of 'marketer moves', not products. How many are doing what they're selling?

PS: They don't want you to do this or know this.
#person #watch
  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    So true. I followed several people here. Now I just follow one. This guy's advice is SOLID GOLD. I have had great results just by implementing his advice. He doesn't wh0r3 himself out as a 'guru' either. The guy just drops relevant advice. If only more people implemented his advice, there would be less whining and more 'I made my first $10,000' types of posts here.
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    • Profile picture of the author WeavingThoughts
      Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

      So true. I followed several people here. Now I just follow one. This guy's advice is SOLID GOLD. I have had great results just by implementing his advice. He doesn't wh0r3 himself out as a 'guru' either. The guy just drops relevant advice. If only more people implemented his advice, there would be less whining and more 'I made my first $10,000' types of posts here.
      Who is he. You could PM me
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    • Profile picture of the author PrestonSr
      Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

      So true. I followed several people here. Now I just follow one. This guy's advice is SOLID GOLD. I have had great results just by implementing his advice. He doesn't wh0r3 himself out as a 'guru' either. The guy just drops relevant advice. If only more people implemented his advice, there would be less whining and more 'I made my first $10,000' types of posts here.
      Will you share who that person is? Because I believe they are out there...and I am in the making
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  • Profile picture of the author fpdeziner
    It's 100% true, quoted by Danny Santagato.
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  • Profile picture of the author mrozlat
    nothing in this world makes sense lol but this is probably as close at it gets
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  • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
    Bruce

    if I could thank you 100 times I would.. there has not been a post so true then this one.

    thanks 7 saludos

    eddie
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    Skunkworks: noun. informal.

    A clandestine group operating without any external intervention or oversight. Such groups achieve significant breakthroughs rarely discussed in public because they operate "outside the box".
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  • Profile picture of the author sarahAttkinson
    Banned
    What can work for some people, may not work for others. It is sure not everybody can get to the top following the same steps as the ones who did it previously.
    But it is wise to watch each of their steps and, moreover, each of their mistakes and learn from them.
    I personally admire a lot of people here sharing their experiences not for us to copy, but to learn how to make it work on our own way.
    :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author mstrmindmktg
    There are many, many marketers that are fabulous and others not so. As in anything, you have to do your research. Don't believe everything you hear or read. When you do find someone - great! Even the ones I really like and believe are genuine, I don't always agree with. It's being smart and testing what is said.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Originally Posted by mstrmindmktg View Post

      There are many, many marketers that are fabulous and others not so.
      Just to be clear, I wasn't saying anything about whether or not anyone was fabulous. I said the key to success is in modeling successful people. Look past the products they sell and observe them... study them... emulate them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        Good post.

        Everything people need to know in life is right on the surface.

        There's no need to go digging to any kind of depth.


        Daniel
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

        Just to be clear, I wasn't saying anything about whether or not anyone was fabulous. I said the key to success is in modeling successful people. Look past the products they sell and observe them... study them... emulate them.
        Understand the stats now?
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author glennshep
    Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

    To know how a marketer makes money watch what they do, not what they tell you to do. How a person describes a business is one thing. How a person conducts business themselves is the real thing.

    A marketers actions speak the truth about themselves.
    Great post and very, very true. It's not only the money-making aspects you need to pay attention to but also how they do everything else, their ethos. To me, it doesn't matter how great a product may be, if the marketer behaves like a douche then I'm not going to want to have anything to do with them.

    This is a business and should be treated as such. Sadly, there are, on occasions, some who approach things very flippantly and behave more like it's, for example, a casual gaming forum with their mates rather than a business and subsequently treat their customers and potential customers in the same way.

    Pay attention to how the person behaves, how their business is evidently run and how they treat others. This alone speaks volumes
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    I was going to thank your post, until I read this:


    Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

    PS: They don't want you to do this or know this.

    There is far too many of the anonymous conspiracy theories about other marketers (they) floating around out there.

    Who doesn't want me to know this or do this?
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    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I was going to thank your post, until I read this:

      There is far too many of the anonymous conspiracy theories about other marketers (they) floating around out there.

      Who doesn't want me to know this or do this?
      First, that was said half jokingly. But I stand by it.

      Who doesn't want you to know this? Let me ask you this, were would <insert guru here> be if, instead of buying their products, people simply modeled them?
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

        First, that was said half jokingly. But I stand by it.

        Who doesn't want you to know this? Let me ask you this, were would <insert guru here> be if, instead of buying their products, people simply modeled them?

        LOL

        <insert guru here> does rely on you and others continuing to buy their products, but I don't think they would care if you or I modeled them.

        And, I have seen many instances of <insert guru here> telling us exactly how to model what they do. Frank Kern and Charles Kirkland are two who immediately come to my mind.

        Which brings me back to my original question:

        "Who doesn't want me to know this or do this?"
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        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          Which brings me back to my original question:

          "Who doesn't want me to know this or do this?"
          Let's be serious about things here. It is easily the overwhelming majority of marketers that teach people to make money ONE way yet make money themselves doing totally different things.

          I am on a LOT of marketers lists and I know this because I receive their emails each week telling me I should be making money doing this. The next week they are telling me to do this. The next week something different. All the while they are making their real money from telling me about these products and not actually implementing those same products and techniques themselves. This is what the OP is talking about. They are forever telling you all these ways to make money yet never mention the fact they are making all their money from telling you about all those products. It can be quite misleading.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

            Which brings me back to my original question:

            "Who doesn't want me to know this or do this?"
            Let's be serious about things here. It is easily the overwhelming majority of marketers that teach people to make money ONE way yet make money themselves doing totally different things.

            I am on a LOT of marketers lists and I know this because I receive their emails each week telling me I should be making money doing this. The next week they are telling me to do this. The next week something different. All the while they are making their real money from telling me about these products and not actually implementing those same products and techniques themselves. This is what the OP is talking about. They are forever telling you all these ways to make money yet never mention the fact they are making all their money from telling you about all those products. It can be quite misleading.

            LOL

            If you wanna play "devil's advocate", and if I were to accept your explanation, he is talking about you and me.

            You and I are part of the "evil guru set", because we have mailing lists, and we promote a number of products.

            You have released 10 products in the last year. To your benefit, I will acknowledge that most of your products have to do with local marketing. And most of your products have covered WordPress tools for local webmasters, local web design tools, FaceBook marketing, and SMS/mobile marketing.

            Your products tend to cover the range of local marketing services.

            I thought I had purchased one of your products before, but I could not find a receipt for one or an email from you, so I don't know if you also promote products from other people.

            I do promote products from other people. I am a product creator and an affiliate marketer. I have a dating website that actually makes money, and I sell local marketing and advertising services. I write articles, reports, and books for Kindle in a number of niches. And, I waste too much time answering threads like this one. :p

            I don't know about you, but I am not personally involved in all of the activities for which I promote products. I have occasionally pitched FaceBook Marketing and Video Marketing products, and I tend to do neither.

            People say that newbies should focus on one particular business model and focus on it, and to a certain degree, I agree with that idea. However, I find it hard to focus on just one niche. I have tried to force myself to choose between writing and local marketing, and I still haven't been able to choose one over the other, so I still do both.

            Importantly, I would not recommend any marketer to watch what I do and try to emulate my ADHD behavior!! If most people were to try to do what I do, they would fall hard on their faces.

            As an affiliate marketer, I try not to tell people what to do, but to show them the options that are available to them. I am happy to let them make their own minds.

            The thing I find odd about this line of argument about the "evil guru set" not wanting their readers to "know how they make their money or to do what they do" is that I am more successful as an affiliate marketer when I actually enable my readers to be profitable. If they are not making money with my recommendations, they aren't going to continue listening to me or buying from me, and that is the way it should be.

            Further, it is not necessary for them to emulate me to find the success they want. It is far better for them to look at the options I present to them, and for them to choose their own path to prosperity.
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            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          LOL

          <snip>
          Which brings me back to my original question:

          "Who doesn't want me to know this or do this?"
          I thought who was on second base. I'm sure he doesn't care if you do or don't.

          For some reason people think those in the money are very concerned that some rising star will take it from them. An excellent copy is still just a copy.

          You can follow any technique in the book -- and it doesn't matter unless you have charisma that is all your own. They CAN'T teach you success, you have to have the disposition and persona for it. Anyone can learn the black and white (though many don't even get that is why they aren't getting anywhere and making up crap about nasty little gurus to excuse their failure for understanding the sociology of their targets). :rolleyes:
          Signature

          Sal
          When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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      • Profile picture of the author daver99
        Interesting post so let's get specific here. Have you ever noticed that so many people who are promoting their latest methods and strategies always use the same old medium.

        Email!

        We see them all the time...telling us how they are doing something incredibly new to get new customers, and blow it up......

        But why is it that they need to revert to that old school method of communication (email) to let us know about it.

        Surely if the method/strategy/tactic was so powerful they would not have to fall back on such an antiquated form of promotion right?

        So I would have to agree with you... it is not what they say, but what they do that shows who they are and what they believe.
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
          Originally Posted by daver99 View Post

          Interesting post so let's get specific here. Have you ever noticed that so many people who are promoting their latest methods and strategies always use the same old medium.

          Email!

          We see them all the time...telling us how they are doing something incredibly new to get new customers, and blow it up......

          But why is it that they need to revert to that old school method of communication (email) to let us know about it.

          Surely if the method/strategy/tactic was so powerful they would not have to fall back on such an antiquated form of promotion right?

          So I would have to agree with you... it is not what they say, but what they do that shows who they are and what they believe.
          I'll play devil's advocate here.

          While I haven't even sent a single followup or broadcast to my list(s) in the last 5 months (nope - not even a promotion) I do understand WHY they still use email marketing.

          Over time, people are building a list of BUYERS -- People that need to spend money in the first place to even get on that list.

          These people already know and trust you. Think about that. Why WOULDN'T they be the first people to notify when you launch something??

          Not everybody uses skype, or yahoo, or any other kind of instant messaging platform.

          As outdated as email might be today, it is still the most effective & most reliable way to guarantee that your people receive what you are sending them.

          The result?

          My highest open rate was 180%

          Conversion rate on that specific blast was probably in the 200% + area.

          If your presell is good, the product is good, etc.. but more importantly - the LIST is good... there is no reason why you shouldn't implement an email list.

          A list of buyers is much more valuable than a list of freebie-seekers any day.

          You keep a good relationship with those buyers, and you can basically print money with the push of a button, and a small amount of typing (pre-selling) -- duh!
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesColin
    Banned
    OK, fine. But it's easy to watch what they say, you simply have to read. But how to watch what they do? IM is not boxing, you don't get to watch people over their shoulder and what they do on the computer..
    You only can watch a little sometimes, mostly what they want you to see.

    So your advice is ok, but how do you implement it? How do you watch what they do exactly?
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Originally Posted by tpw

      <insert guru here> does rely on you and others continuing to buy their products, but I don't think they would care if you or I modeled them.
      Ok, thanks for your input. I put it out there, you can do what you want with it.

      Originally Posted by JamesColin View Post

      OK, fine. But it's easy to watch what they say, you simply have to read. But how to watch what they do? IM is not boxing, you don't get to watch people over their shoulder and what they do on the computer..
      You only can watch a little sometimes, mostly what they want you to see.

      So your advice is ok, but how do you implement it? How do you watch what they do exactly?
      You don't need to observe product development, writing, etc. You don't need to be under the hood. You simply have to know how to get that stuff done, personally or via outsourcing. The things they can't hide are all you need to know.

      To watch what they do:
      1. Get on their lists. But get on them with the mindset of, what is the structure of his emails. What subject lines does he use? How long are they? How often are they mailed? What time are they mailed?

      2. Get on his affiliate email list and JV pages - Watch how they set things up, what they offer to JVs, when do they start promoting, what commissions are they offering.

      3. Friend or follow on Facebook: Watch what they say to people. What how they announce and promote their products. Watch how they interact with fans.

      4. Read their copy - See how they resonate with their audience. What hook are they using? What problems are they solving.

      5. Study their offers intently - Look at pricing, bonuses, packaging, upsells, etc.

      6. Study their products - I don't mean buy them. You can learn all you need to know about what their focus is by the descriptions in the sales copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesColin
    Banned
    Thank you for those points, yes I understand it is about "follow them everywhere" and that's what I've been doing I think like many people, to subscribe to many mailing lists and set up folders so that I get the emails, not really to follow but to see how they all do it and try to get common practises as I'm a beginner.
    OK, so I get it, it is about watching what they do, not how they do it as an insider.
    OR... as a joke if you have point seven:
    7. get them to unintentionally install a trojan on their computer, so you can have a backdoor and watch their screen :-) So you'll even get to watch the drafts they don't send to their email list :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Max Yeo
      Originally Posted by JamesColin View Post

      Thank you for those points, yes I understand it is about "follow them everywhere" and that's what I've been doing I think like many people, to subscribe to many mailing lists and set up folders so that I get the emails, not really to follow but to see how they all do it and try to get common practises as I'm a beginner.
      OK, so I get it, it is about watching what they do, not how they do it as an insider.
      OR... as a joke if you have point seven:
      7. get them to unintentionally install a trojan on their computer, so you can have a backdoor and watch their screen :-) So you'll even get to watch the drafts they don't send to their email list :-)
      The main point would be studying how they reach their target audience, knowing what and how they influence (sell to) them.

      You are learning from where their real actions are and where they are getting their results. - That is THE Internet Marketing skill you ought to learn well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    "follow them everywhere" is a lowsy (at best) approach..

    countless reasons as to WHY it is a lowsy approach out there - but I'll let everyone try to come up with some on their own. i've already said what i wanted to say (hence the non-proper typing with no capital letters, etc.. lol)
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    yup over the years, I have bought alot of products.

    When i realised, its not what the marketer says in his ebooks, or videos.

    Its what he does, how he markets to you, where he takes u after you opt in, and what is offered to you after you buy. Pretty simple really.

    Do what the big boys do, not what they say. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Words are just words. Anyone one can say whatever they want, but what really matters is what they can do into practice.

    Many internet marketers are only theoretically teaching others, while they don’t know how to make money. They only know how to repeat what others said.

    (As a matter of fact I keep seeing here at the WF many people who were making questions about how to make money in a way or another in an old thread, with a funny signature where they pretend to be experts on what they completely ignored a few days ago.)

    Other internet marketers know how to make money, but they show only the tip of the iceberg to their students, nothing really meaningful. They hide all the steps they had to follow until they could really get positive results.

    Some internet marketers give real lessons to their followers, but they are hard to find.


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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Personally, I think its not really about watching what people say vs what they do, but rather its about properly deciding who to watch and listen to.

    The vast majority of "guru's" or folks selling how to make money online products are not making much money online with any venture. dont believe me? Look at the warriorplus or jvzoo sales numbers....and i can assure you those numbers are fairly indicative of the percentage of folks in the industry who are successful.

    So in my opinion i would say a much greater skill to practice up on is deciphering who you should apply the "guru" label to.

    Doing what a wannabe guru does will almost certainly lead to no more success than listening to what a wannabe guru says to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author oscarb
      The secret sauce to success is this: Wait for the next product launch to come along, then buy it and put it on the shelf. Then wailt for the next product launch to come along, rinse and repeat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Joseph
    Many good points here Bruce. I even follow this in the real world - not just online. Observe what a person does, instead of what they say. This will help us get to the root of someones true character over time.
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    Jon

    "Success comes when people act together; failure tends to happen alone." -- Deepak Chopra

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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      I disagree, because someone could be trained and knows exactly what to do, but may not have the means to do it yet.

      Other things to keep in mind is that some people are better at teaching than doing.

      I will listen or read what anyone is saying as long as it makes sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    I got a PM from another warrior, asking about my post in this thread (#20)

    So, I wanted to post her question and my response in this thread, since it will probably benefit a lot of other people too.

    Here it is (I am censoring her username, however)

    Originally Posted by ******

    I read your post #20 in this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-they-say.html

    How the *** do you have open rate 180%????:confused:
    How do you make people from the first time to buy from you ("buyers list")???:confused:
    Where/how did you learn about selling to a list or building it?
    Sound VERY interesting what you are saying...

    Regards,
    ******
    lol, well.. I guess I'll just break it down into sections to answer it since there are multiple questions, hope that's ok with you

    How the *** do you have open rate 180%????
    The broadcast I was talking about for that comment was a very good one.

    Subscribers not only opened it, they kept coming back to their inbox to open & read it again.

    Aweber stats showed that one person literally opened that email over 60 times, just by himself. No joke.. and he was just one person. lol

    How do you make people from the first time to buy from you ("buyers list")???:confused:
    This one is easy.. you just don't build a list using ad-swaps, solo ads, or freebies (giveaways in exchange for their email)

    To get on my list, they have to PURCHASE a product or service from me to begin with. No freebies to entice them to join whatsoever.

    You don't want a list of freebie-seekers. You want a list of people who are willing to purchase.

    This guarantees that every subscriber is willing to spend money, and isn't just seeking some free stuff.

    Where/how did you learn about selling to a list or building it?
    Experience, for the most part. I've been working full-time as an IM'er for about 7 years now.

    Building the buyers list is the harder part.

    Once they have already purchased from you tho, selling to them again is the easy part, believe it or not.

    Once they have purchased from you, they have put their trust in you and your recommendations.

    Which means they are going to seriously consider whatever you are telling them, or suggesting that they purchase.

    List building is not about numbers of subscribers, or how much money you can make from them.

    I mean sure, you keep a list of buyers so you can make money - after all, if your list isn't making money, it is costing you money.

    Especially with services that increase their rates based on the number of subs you have (such as Aweber, for example)

    Anyway - as long as the product or service is good, and is everything that you AND the sales page promise it to be, it really isn't too difficult.

    I highly suggest USING whatever you plan on promoting, that way you know 100% that it is/does what it claims.

    If you go around promoting bullshit products, you will lose your credibility -- and your list -- FAST.

    PS - I hope you don't mind, but I think this conversation could really help some other people who might have these same questions about my post.

    So I will post this entire thread/PM/whatever you wanna call it in that thread where you found my post
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  • Profile picture of the author Gclunis
    Hey Bruce,

    I agree 100%. The value of a person is not in what they say, it's in what they do. This is something most people have heard over and over again but when it comes down to it the concept is usually never applied.

    If you spend your time studying the things they are doing rather than the things they are saying you will get a lot farther in your career.

    This is the same reason that things like "mentorships" work so well, being able to watch a professional as they do whatever it is that actually earns them an income rather than just reading the words they put down in an ebook.

    Great Share,
    Gregg
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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello everyone,

    Essentially, the message means, "You should do what they do and not what they say." That's likely why the phrase, "Actions speak louder than words," is quoted so often.

    I think for those marketers who are just trying to sell you products, yes. However, there are those out there who do tell you how to do it - even there, though, you should also pay attention to what they are doing as well. Combine both their instruction and their actions to really succeed at online marketing.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Take care,

    Joe Chengery
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