WSO of the Day? Are you sure?

105 replies
/rant

Thanks for the replies everyone
#day #wso
  • Profile picture of the author alksense
    I think I'm familiar with the WSO you are referring to and if it is the same one I'm thinking of I'm almost positive the seller just made a BS image that said "WSO Of The Day" to trick more people into buying his product... very deceptive, to say the least.
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  • Profile picture of the author marketingva
    You might want to take your complaint to the correct people rather than cluttering up this forum with your complaints. The WSO of the day has nothing to do with the Warrior Forum. It is a designation given by this site: WarriorPlus. If you have a complaint take it up with them. We have no control over it.

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    • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
      Originally Posted by marketingva View Post

      You might want to take your complaint to the correct people rather than cluttering up this forum with your complaints. The WSO of the day has nothing to do with the Warrior Forum. It is a designation given by this site: WarriorPlus. If you have a complaint take it up with them. We have no control over it.

      Bonnie
      It's not a complaint, it's what I've noticed and how I feel.

      "We have no control over it" because you choose to do nothing about it. Speaking up is the first step.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

        It's not a complaint, it's what I've noticed and how I feel.

        "We have no control over it" because you choose to do nothing about it. Speaking up is the first step.
        WSO/Day is awarded by Mike Lantz, the owner of Warrior Plus. Why don't you take it up with him? This nonsense has no place on the main board of this forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author marketingva
        Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

        It's not a complaint, it's what I've noticed and how I feel.

        "We have no control over it" because you choose to do nothing about it. Speaking up is the first step.
        What are you talking about? I can't speak up because I don't own WarriorPlus nor do I use it. I use the Warrior Forum. How can speaking up about WarriorPlus do anything on this forum? We don't own or control that site.

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        • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
          Originally Posted by marketingva View Post

          What are you talking about? I can't speak up because I don't own WarriorPlus nor do I use it. I use the Warrior Forum. How can speaking up about WarriorPlus do anything on this forum? We don't own or control that site.

          Bonnie
          Then this thread does not pertain to you. No problem at all.

          Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author LarryC
      Originally Posted by marketingva View Post

      You might want to take your complaint to the correct people rather than cluttering up this forum with your complaints. The WSO of the day has nothing to do with the Warrior Forum. It is a designation given by this site: WarriorPlus. If you have a complaint take it up with them. We have no control over it.

      Bonnie
      I can't comment on the particular products in question, but the above is not completely accurate. Even if the Warrior Forum itself doesn't award "WSO of the Day," you can't say that "it has nothing to do with the Warrior Forum." Anything pertaining to WSOs are related to the Warrior Forum.

      The very title WSO of the Day probably fools many people (especially newbies, but don't they make up a significant part of the audience here?) into assuming that these products are endorsed by the Warrior Forum itself. I know that if you read the fine print you would know this isn't the case, but many people don't.

      If someone is allowed to create a title like that and use it to describe products in the forum, shouldn't others be allowed to discuss, question and even criticize these products?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        The very title WSO of the Day probably fools many people (especially newbies, but don't they make up a significant part of the audience here?) into assuming that these products are endorsed by the Warrior Forum itself. I know that if you read the fine print you would know this isn't the case, but many people don't.
        The rules are not posted in fine print. They're in standard font, in threads at the top of the WSO section. This text is the very first block in that thread, in bold letters:
        IMPORTANT UPDATE: The Warrior Forum Is Not Associated With ANY Of The Services Like Warrior+, JvZoo and Others. These are services people started up on their own and the fact that they exist does not imply we endorse them in any way. These services are totally separate from the Warrior Forum. If you have any type of issues with these services you must deal with them directly.
        The first paragraph in the first post in the first thread in that section. If people aren't reading that, it's not for lack of trying on Allen's part.
        If someone is allowed to create a title like that and use it to describe products in the forum, shouldn't others be allowed to discuss, question and even criticize these products?
        As long as it's kept civil and rational, they're allowed. As you can see from this thread.

        What's your point?


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        • Profile picture of the author LarryC
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          The rules are not posted in fine print. They're in standard font, in threads at the top of the WSO section. This text is the very first block in that thread, in bold letters:

          The first paragraph in the first post in the first thread in that section. If people aren't reading that, it's not for lack of trying on Allen's part.As long as it's kept civil and rational, they're allowed. As you can see from this thread.

          What's your point?


          Paul
          Judging from many threads that pop up regularly, many people still seem confused about this. I think many people come to the Warrior Forum and simply start reading certain WSOs and little else. True, people should take the trouble to read the rules.

          My point is only that some people raise objections to any thread that smacks of "whining." The fact is, one person's whine is another's legitimate gripe.
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          • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
            Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

            Judging from many threads that pop up regularly, many people still seem confused about this. I think many people come to the Warrior Forum and simply start reading certain WSOs and little else. True, people should take the trouble to read the rules.

            My point is only that some people raise objections to any thread that smacks of "whining." The fact is, one person's whine is another's legitimate gripe.
            Which is why I always say, "there is no right and wrong, only perspective, but there is always truth."
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      • Profile picture of the author donza
        Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

        I can't comment on the particular products in question, but the above is not completely accurate. Even if the Warrior Forum itself doesn't award "WSO of the Day," you can't say that "it has nothing to do with the Warrior Forum." Anything pertaining to WSOs are related to the Warrior Forum.

        The very title WSO of the Day probably fools many people (especially newbies, but don't they make up a significant part of the audience here?) into assuming that these products are endorsed by the Warrior Forum itself. I know that if you read the fine print you would know this isn't the case, but many people don't.

        If someone is allowed to create a title like that and use it to describe products in the forum, shouldn't others be allowed to discuss, question and even criticize these products?
        I rarely venture into the WSO area but I always took it for granted the "WSO of the day" was awarded by the Warrior forum admin. I'm sure most newbies would make the same assumption.
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  • Profile picture of the author yjtung
    I totally agree with you ,WSO of the day is mostly awarded to the highest grossing WSO so it can sometimes be deceiving. However, on the flip side, these people did not get popular over night and their reputation will surely hurt from selling sub-par products.

    If you do put out good products with rave reviews, people will notice and assuming you're collecting emails, you can build a loyal following along with a reputation for putting out quality products. This will only help you down the road when you put out more products. If you give quality value, the money will come
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    • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
      Originally Posted by yjtung View Post

      I totally agree with you ,WSO of the day is mostly awarded to the highest grossing WSO so it can sometimes be deceiving. However, on the flip side, these people did not get popular over night and their reputation will surely hurt from selling sub-par products.

      If you do put out good products with rave reviews, people will notice and assuming you're collecting emails, you can build a loyal following along with a reputation for putting out quality products. This will only help you down the road when you put out more products. If you give quality value, the money will come
      Thanks man.

      Thanks for making me realize I have been focusing on the negative and have been blinded from the positive.

      Just felt the need to get it out... Your post may have been the reason for it.

      Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
    This has been pointed out numerous times on here before but WSOTD has no association to this forum as Allen or the mods do not vote on WSO's. The WSO is just a classified advertising section.
    WSOTD may be appointed by affliate sites like warrior plus and JV zoo but they may choose it for anything they decide including commissions paid to affliates.
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    • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
      Originally Posted by Richard Tunnah View Post

      This has been pointed out numerous times on here before but WSOTD has no association to this forum as Allen or the mods do not vote on WSO's. The WSO is just a classified advertising section.
      WSOTD may be appointed by affliate sites like warrior plus and JV zoo but they may choose it for anything they decide including commissions paid to affliates.
      It has everything to do with the WF...

      Even if you haven't noticed, many have. The Warrior Forum is losing credibility due to their choices. Inevitable failure...
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

        It has everything to do with the WF...

        Even if you haven't noticed, many have. The Warrior Forum is losing credibility due to their choices. Inevitable failure...
        Actually, what I've noticed is that the forum is growing and sales through platforms like Warrior Plus and JVZoo (3rd party platforms) are also growing.

        Granted there is garbage out there, but there are also some great products beings sold as WSO of the Day. The WSO of The Day is chosen by by the owner of the Warrior Plus system which is a 3rd party platform. I don't know how Mike Lantz choses them and frankly, I don't care.

        The marketing and promoting of my product or service in the WSO is my responsibility. Yes, it would be nice to get the added traffic such awards bring, but ultimately, my business is not reliant on it.

        I guess I'm not really understanding the gripe here.

        RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    And the point here is what?
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      What is your specific reason for wanting to be awarded "WSO of the Day"?
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      • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
        Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

        What is your specific reason for wanting to be awarded "WSO of the Day"?
        To bring value to people. Information that can actually help them.

        Not information that will make the affiliate more money.
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
          Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

          To bring value to people. Information that can actually help them.

          Not information that will make the affiliate more money.
          Your product is free?
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          • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
            Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

            Your product is free?
            Ah haa!

            Obviously to make money as well. Why does anyone become an internet marketer? But don't assume that's the only reason, because it's not. Whether you choose to believe me or not.

            Edit: In return, I could have answered with a question. Are your services on Fiverr free?
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            • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
              Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

              Ah haa!

              Obviously to make money as well. Why does anyone become an internet marketer? But don't assume that's the only reason, because it's not. Whether you choose to believe me or not.
              Edit: In return, I could have answered with a question. Are your services on Fiverr free?
              You could, but unlike yourself, I wasn't protesting that the "hosts" earning money was an unethical factor.

              .....and I do have products that are free. Valuable ones.

              As it happens, WSO of the Day isn't something I strive for personally, nor value for the very reasons you highlight (and the fact that a daily "award" perhaps isn't the greatest of achievements) however, in fairness you are contridicting yourself a little.

              I'm sure Mike Lantz could equally argue that he's in it to deliver quality to the populus whilst reaping a buck too...

              Warrior Plus should not be the make or break determining the success of your product.

              If you don't like something, just cast it aside and get on with your business.

              Create your own spotlight.
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              • Profile picture of the author ElGuapo
                Without wishing to pass comment on any of these WSOs (I have not read them), surely this opens up a golden opportunity for some healthy competition?

                Namely, WSO review sites that are independent of the forum. The creators would make money on the back of Warrior referrals, and the customers could pick between the sites that they trust. Those who have created what they consider to be excellent products would have no issue offering up their product for a review in return for the extra exposure.
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    • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      And the point here is what?
      Great comment!

      Maybe, just maybe... the point is that people spending their hard earned money on bogus products that promise their retirement and riches are only getting scammed. Scammed by the sellers who take your money and laugh all the way to the bank. Who have no consideration of your well being, or if you become a successful internet marketer or not. As long as they make their money, it's all good... screw everyone else!

      Get my point?
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    • Profile picture of the author teepee
      That anyone can get "WSO of the Day". Means absolutely nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Saintsfan40
    Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

    If you can't make money for someone, they're not your friend and won't even give you a chance. If you can make money for someone, they are your BFF! It's false, it's fake, and it all revolves around money. Just like the world, and the reason it's falling to shambles...

    A successful product is no longer about how good your product actually is, or how much it can help someone, but is now a popularity contest. If you don't know the right people, your product will fail. Unfortunately, this is the truth.

    Very well stated. And thank you for telling it like it is. Sorry your hard work went unnoticed. I've been through the WSO's and most of them are hot garbage with the exception of a few, and I mean VERY FEW. They warm you up with the sales crap, then you're like WTF? What's the method? Where's the solution?

    About knowing the right people for a popularity contest, also known as the circlejerk group:rolleyes:. It's hard to trust anyone any more. People who say who want to help or coach you, most of them are full of crap, want to scam you or confuse the hell out of you . If you're not welcomed into their clique, they don't give a damn about you.

    This is why I steer clear away from the so called "Gurus" and unethical marketers. I've pm'd a few of the "popular" IMers on this forum asking for advice on certain topics or being stuck in an area. Never got one response from any of them. What does that tell you about their character? Screw them. Plus I got scammed months ago from a coaching guru who fed me nothing but one hour of fluff and never targeted the solution. Live and learn.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      I think I'm familiar with the WSO you are referring to and if it is the same one I'm thinking of I'm almost positive the seller just made a BS image that said "WSO Of The Day" to trick more people into buying his product... very deceptive, to say the least.
      If you really believe this to be true, send me the link to the offer via PM. If the seller has lied about being a WSOTD, they will be banned from the forum.

      The forum has nothing to do with WSOTD/ JV Zoo Pick of the Day, etc. Those are chosen by the folks who run the various other services. Still, lying about being chosen is unquestionably deceptive, and would be a very bad idea for anyone who wants to establish or keep an account here.
      "We have no control over it" because you choose to do nothing about it.
      Choose? In a strict sense, you could say that's true. Allen does not "choose" to tell Mike or the folks at JV Zoo what products they should feel are worth promoting through their own systems. He doesn't "choose" to try and force people to ignore basic marketing principles, which dictate that popularity and exposure are key factors in the success of a product, even more than product quality. He doesn't "choose" to try and dictate who's in which network, and who should associate with whom.

      What would you suggest as an alternative to letting each person choose which products they wish to promote, based on their own personal criteria?

      If you see an actual scam going on, use that little red triangle to the lower left of the post and report it to the mods. Be specific about how it is not what it's represented to be, and we'll look into it.
      Even if you haven't noticed, many have. The Warrior Forum is losing credibility due to their choices. Inevitable failure...
      If people keep refusing to accept that WarriorPlus and JV Zoo aren't part of the forum, that's their problem. We're pretty bloody clear on that point.

      Many of the people who refuse to accept it make that choice because people come into the discussion areas and shout about how it's the forum's fault that Mike or Brian or some group of affiliates choose to promote something the person complaining doesn't like.

      There is a simple mechanism in place for reporting problem offers. It works, when people use it. Generic griping does no good at all, except to make the griper feel righteous.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        If you really believe this to be true, send me the link to the offer via PM. If the seller has lied about being a WSOTD, they will be banned from the forum.
        Really Paul?

        There is no trademark or copyright on the term "WSOTD".

        Perhaps I think my WSO IS the WSO of the day. I don't see what's wrong with it, especially if you have a disclaimer somewhere in the copy indicating it is not the W+ WSOTD

        Banning for doing that is pretty extreme, IMHO.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

          Really Paul?

          There is no trademark or copyright on the term "WSOTD".

          Perhaps I think my WSO IS the WSO of the day. I don't see what's wrong with it, especially if you have a disclaimer somewhere in the copy indicating it is not the W+ WSOTD

          Banning for doing that is pretty extreme, IMHO.

          I was thinking about starting a new list to serve as WSOWTF...

          I think it would be a BIG HIT!! :p
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          • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
            Originally Posted by tpw View Post

            I was thinking about starting a new list to serve as WSOWTF...

            I think it would be a BIG HIT!! :p
            Bill,

            You and I could start a whole new promotional tool as an option for those who want to be the WSOWTF of the day award. We could advertise to those who have never been selected by the JV Zoo and WSO Pro.

            We could really make a killing. And don't forget we can steal ExRats famous:
            Only The Most Lucrative WSOs, Every Day

            WSO of the Day is a feature of WarriorPlus that helps me uncover great commissions by promoting (what end up becoming) top-selling offers on the WSO Forum.
            I already have the domain and have started scraping a list of those not selected.

            :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: (for those who don't know the little faces men sarcastic/sarcasm)

            Ken


            The Old Geezer
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Bruce,
          Really Paul?
          Yes. Really.

          I don't see that as being any different than the person who uses fake accounts to shill for themselves, or the ones who used to buy fake "testimonial" videos on Fiverr. Or the "even less bright" folks who have claimed an endorsement of their offer by the forum itself.

          It's a deliberate attempt to manipulate the perception of social proof in a deceptive fashion.

          Garrie,
          Would "WSO of the Day" and even Warrior Plus not also fall into that? After all, Mike used Allens brand for both.
          Allen didn't seem to have any problems with it, and it was the first service designed specifically to help WSO merchants sell more of their products. It was also specific to this forum, which makes the use of the terms Warrior and WSO reasonable references.

          So, IMNSHO, no. It's not the same.

          Heavy emphasis on the 'O' in that acronym...


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Bruce,Yes. Really.

            I don't see that as being any different than the person who uses fake accounts to shill for themselves, or the ones who used to buy fake "testimonial" videos on Fiverr. Or the "even less bright" folks who have claimed an endorsement of their offer by the forum itself.

            It's a deliberate attempt to manipulate the perception of social proof in a deceptive fashion.
            Ok, gotcha. I'll claim my next WSO as WSO of the Year.

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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Bruce,
              Ok, gotcha. I'll claim my next WSO as WSO of the Year.

              You would not be the first. And you would also not be banned for it.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Bruce,You would not be the first. And you would also not be banned for it.


                Paul
                Okay since "year" and "day" are taken, I hereby stake my claim to the following:

                Warrior Special Offer of the Millennium WSOTM
                Warrior Special Offer of the Century WSOTC
                Warrior Special Offer of the Month WSOTMo
                Warrior Special Offer of the Hour WSOTH
                Warrior Special Offer of the Minute WSOTMi
                Warrior Special Offer of the Millisecond WSOTMs (for the bright shiny object crowd)

                Mark

                PS Too many M's when it comes to describing time. I need to get up with them about fixing that.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Would it be inappropriate for us to stomp someone for saying their offer was Kay King's Pick of the Day when you hadn't endorsed the product?
                  Yes - if I listed it with my name in that way. That would give a clear reference to the recommendation.

                  No - if I just used a title to make my recommendation as 'pick of the day' or "WSO Pick of the Day". Though I also see the point that after so much use the term might be viewed as proprietary.

                  The perception is there
                  Yes, it is. Seems that perception would be bolstered if the WF is the enforcing agent for the title Mike awards.

                  Not taking a stand here - just thinking through it.

                  kay
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                  I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Stefan Shields
                    Just like to throw this out there, what about those sellers that have been awarded WSOTD but carry on using it in their title months after the initial award, surely those that know no better can be confused into thinking the offer has just been awarded "today". Should these sellers be allowed to do this?
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                    • Profile picture of the author WillR
                      Originally Posted by Stefan Shields View Post

                      Just like to throw this out there, what about those sellers that have been awarded WSOTD but carry on using it in their title months after the initial award, surely those that know no better can be confused into thinking the offer has just been awarded "today". Should these sellers be allowed to do this?
                      Do you want a Nanny State:
                      Nanny state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      There is such thing as Buyer Beware:
                      Caveat emptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      If I win a gold medal at the Olympics, can I no longer tell people I won that award the year after?

                      If you are buying a product simply because it says 'WSO of the Day' in the thread title, the problem is you and your buying habits, not the thread title.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Stefan Shields
                        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                        Do you want a Nanny State:
                        Nanny state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        There is such thing as Buyer Beware:
                        Caveat emptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        If I win a gold medal at the Olympics, can I no longer tell people I won that award the year after?

                        If you are buying a product simply because it says 'WSO of the Day' in the thread title, the problem is you and your buying habits, not the thread title.
                        No need to be so defensive Will, I was just asking "is it OK"
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                        • Profile picture of the author WillR
                          Originally Posted by Stefan Shields View Post

                          No need to be so defensive Will, I was just asking "is it OK"
                          And I was simply telling you it was. Disagreeing with you, does not mean it is defensive. There's a difference. Seriously, I didn't mean to sound as though I was having a go at you.

                          There are far too many buyers making poor decisions and blaming them on others. Buyers need to take more responsibility for their own buying decisions. It is no one else's but your own if you buy a crap product.

                          "You can lead a horse to water..."
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                          • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                            Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                            There are far too many buyers making poor decisions and blaming them on others. Buyers need to take more responsibility for their own buying decisions.
                            Good point and a lot of problems could be overcome just by doing due diligence.


                            It is no one else's but your own if you buy a crap product.
                            Besides due diligence which I just admitted more people need to do in more depth, how in the world do you come up with this idea that it's the buyer's fault for buying a crap product?

                            How do they know? Read the (many times paid for) reviews and expect them to give an honest appraisal? Ask an affiliate partner? Ask a moderator?

                            How?

                            Mark
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                            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                              Mark,
                              How do they know? Read the (many times paid for) reviews and expect them to give an honest appraisal?
                              "Many times."

                              Is this actually something you see happening NOW, or are you echoing the issues that were a problem for a few months, well over a year ago?

                              Yes, there were sellers commonly using bought video testimonials for a while. When that was pointed out, it was addressed. Offers were closed, sellers were banned, and it's so uncommon now that I'd be surprised if it happens once every 2 or 3 months. And when it does and is reported, we deal with it. Harshly.

                              Shilling via multiple fake accounts was also a much bigger problem for a while. That's now a very low-grade, if persistent, headache. One that's mostly limited to the classifieds section, and which also draws a harsh response when spotted.

                              Put together, these barely amount to a blip any more. But you see people waving them around as though they were rampant.

                              It is waaaay more common to see sellers pointing out someone's low post count and claiming any negative review from them must be fake, or "the usual suspects" alleging that any positive review from them must have been bought.

                              Two sides of a counterfeit coin.

                              There are a lot of people who only participate in the WSO section, and who only have registered accounts so they can ask questions and comment on products they've purchased. None of those posts will show in their count. And the number is irrelevant anyway.

                              What we have is a group of people who assume the negative and claim anything positive is a lie. They have spouted this stuff for so long that others pick up the tune and sing along.

                              I'm not saying there aren't problems. This is a very small one, though.


                              Paul
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                      • Profile picture of the author danstairs
                        Some useful opinions here, not a useless thread at all, as someone suggested. I would have to agree with Alexa that "Mike Lanz's WSO of the Day" would be a more appropriate title, as I cannot see how anyone who is new to the forum or just takes a cursory interest, would not just take "WSO of the Day" as being a legitimate proven accolade from the forum. Of course in an ideal world we would all read the rules stuff at the top, but if you just want to dive in and not be afraid that you are going to be abusive, then it's something you might leave until later (no excuse of course, a bit like reading the Highway Code - who's done that?). I was aware after a while that it was a 3rd party involvement, but it did take a little time and as Exrat says, it mainly seems to be a commission thing for Mike Lanz, as he used to send me emails every day with the links (and I bought some - thanks Mike) :rolleyes:
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                      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                        Hi WillR,

                        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                        Do you want a Nanny State:
                        Nanny state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        There is such thing as Buyer Beware:
                        Caveat emptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        If I win a gold medal at the Olympics, can I no longer tell people I won that award the year after?
                        How often are the olympics? How many gold medals are awarded each time?

                        Imagine if things were changed and an olympic gold medal was awarded to an athlete every single day? Imagine if it seemed like every time you read about an athlete, their name was preceded by 'gold medal winner'. People would justifiably start saying that the whole thing was devalued and meaningless.

                        Some would defend this by saying, 'So what? Does it really matter?' but....(see next point)

                        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                        If you are buying a product simply because it says 'WSO of the Day' in the thread title, the problem is you and your buying habits, not the thread title.
                        This same answer comes up over and over again in countless different threads related to countless different issues that people have with the way products are sold in the WSO section and in IM in general - EG - blind copy, products sold as 'everything you need' which turn out to require the expensive OTO to be purchased to be at all useful, being added automatically to buyers' 'product update' lists used for daily offer bombardment and the emails are then sold to other bombardiers....etc etc

                        But, when you add them all up and then view the consequence of all of these different issues, the cumulative effect is one that seems to taint the whole industry and casts anyone who calls themselves an 'internet marketer' as a snake-oil salesman.

                        People can say 'buyer beware' and 'Caveat Emptor' until they're blue in the face, but eventually it means nothing. The person you were responding did not make his point in the context of 'buying a product simply because it says 'WSO of the day' in the thread title' yet you choose to respond to him in precisely that context. Why? It's a small thing, but it makes a big difference.

                        It's exactly the same as the person who works for a low wage as a bank teller becoming agitated because whenever they say 'I work in a bank' people sneer at them.

                        But after TBTF, bailouts & TARP, forced refunds of extortionate and undeserved bank charges, PPI scandal, the interest swap 'mis-selling' scandal, the LIBOR scandal, HSBC money-laundering for Mexican cartels and terrorists scandal, the London whale, CDOs, the sub-prime mortgage scandal...and many others....and virtually none of the guilty are convicted and sent to jail, but the banks are simply fined a portion of their ill-gotten gains and the fines go into the pockets of other criminals and their enablers, then it's possible to turn around and defend the banks by saying, 'did you read the small print?' or 'did they hold a gun to your head?' but in reality, they're simply burying their head in the sand, wearing blinkers, missing the point and twisting reality by using those defences.

                        Likewise for 'Caveat Emptor' and 'buyer beware' in IM and the WSO forum. You simply cannot excuse the sheer quantity of made up, solicited, deceptive and bought on Fiverr testimonials in this industry. That in itself is a blight on us all.

                        If you want to come along and introduce yourself in this marketplace and gain a reputation for honesty, you have to accept that you are starting out with a deficit in this area, even when you haven't even done anything yet - simply because you are an 'internet marketer'.

                        You have to go way beyond honesty, simply to appear to be at all honest, because the whole industry is so tainted in the first place. Therefore, the problem is not simply peoples' buying habits and to put everything down to that is to be deliberately blinkered.

                        People don't expect car salesmen to be completely honest, they expect them to be a little tricky - they also don't expect them to be absolutely dishonest in every way. Likewise for internet marketers.

                        But when they find them forming cartels, paying for testimonials, cookie-stuffing, selling complete junk, rebilling when no rebill was expected, disappearing, failing to offer any customer service as promised, selling someone elses aged product, lying through their teeth - it's way too simplistic to blame peoples' buying habits and to do so eventually becomes a non-defence.

                        Yes, the majority of people have poor buying habits. But no - this does not mean that it's right to take each issue in isolation and defend it by blaming those poor buying habits, without looking at the sheer quantity of issues arising in this industry.

                        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                        And I was simply telling you it was. Disagreeing with you, does not mean it is defensive. There's a difference. Seriously, I didn't mean to sound as though I was having a go at you.
                        So you can see the difference there? There's also a difference between it being the buyer's fault if they buy something purely because it is WSO of the day, or if there are a host of other deceptions going on and we are viewing things in that latter context, but you choose not to see that difference.

                        But for some reason, you choose to see this from the 'singular issue' viewpoint (someone buying purely because a product was WSO of the day) when it's quite obvious that without it being spelled out in black and white, everyone in this thread is assuming that there might be other reasons for buying too and some of those might be due to deception as well.

                        In other words, no one is referring to buying a product purely because it had WSOTD in the title, yet you choose to create a defence using that singular context for some reason. This is exactly what I am referring to, when it comes to defending dodgy practices in IM - the deceptions are across the board, not singular and it's that which makes the difference.

                        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

                        There are far too many buyers making poor decisions and blaming them on others. Buyers need to take more responsibility for their own buying decisions. It is no one else's but your own if you buy a crap product.

                        "You can lead a horse to water..."
                        The horse analogy is out of context, in my opinion.

                        It is no one else's but your own if you buy a crap product.
                        There are so many things wrong with this statement I don't know where to start. We are talking about WSOs, aren't we?

                        Show me one WSO advertised as a crap product? None? Therefore any of them who are selling crap products are duping the buyers and being dishonest. How is a buyer meant to defend against that? Never believe a word in a salespage and never buy anything at all, ever?

                        (Disclaimer - sorry to pick on your points WillR. Everything I have seen from you on this forum gives me the impression that you are a great bloke and entirely honest. But unfortunately, you made your points in this thread in a manner that was begging for this type of reply. Nothing personal meant, I hope you can accept that.)

                        Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

                        The WSO of the Day title means nothing to me. When it first came out it looked interesting, but they milked it by making it a daily thing. [snip]To me it's pretty much a useless title.
                        I agree with your points and I said similar earlier on.

                        But it's not useless to Mike Lantz or the seller who receives it. What matters to many of us is that those most likely to end up feeling deceived by it are those who have just arrived in the forum and decided to buy something.

                        So the outcome is that as soon as newbies are introduced to this place, they get their fingers burnt.

                        Then if they mention this, some wag will turn up and say, 'no one put a gun to your head and forced you to buy', or 'WarriorPro has nothing to do with this forum, it's entirely seperate and unconnected', or 'Caveat Emptor', or 'it's your buying habits that are the problem.'

                        Then that newbie has to go and change their primary Paypal email address because it was automatically added to a 'buyers' list' and it's getting slaughtered with spam and daily bombardments of offers for more WSOs.

                        Personally, I would like to be an internet marketer plus I would like to continue to contribute to this forum and be a prominent member without being tainted by this stuff.

                        Currently, that equation is not possible.

                        I would point out some other things here about deception and WarriorPlus but the last time I did so, the thread got deleted and although Mike Lantz briefly made an appearance, he chose not to address the specific points I had asked him to address, before the thread got zapped.
                        Signature


                        Roger Davis

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                    • Profile picture of the author tpw
                      Originally Posted by Stefan Shields View Post

                      Just like to throw this out there, what about those sellers that have been awarded WSOTD but carry on using it in their title months after the initial award, surely those that know no better can be confused into thinking the offer has just been awarded "today". Should these sellers be allowed to do this?

                      The first time I was awarded WSO of the Day, Mike advised me NOT to indicate that in my sales thread.

                      I have noticed since then that no one enforces that.

                      Of course Mike has no control over the forum, and he cannot enforce that rule without going to the forum management.

                      And the forum management seems to believe it does not matter to them if it is mentioned in the sales threads. :p
                      Signature
                      Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
                      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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                      • Profile picture of the author heavysm
                        The WSO of the Day title means nothing to me. When it first came out it looked interesting, but they milked it by making it a daily thing.

                        I know that sounds a little odd to say but i seem to remember at least one list that had WSO of the week, month and year. Though it seemed arbitrary which WSO got picked, it made the entire process seem less aimed at milking our wallets than attempting to give us something worth looking at.

                        I've used some WSO's that were only open for a short period that I killed it with making literally $1000's. Some of these authors had legit methods but never returned back to the forum (a pity, really). And I'm pretty sure those weren't even in the running for WSO of the Day, much less known by many marketers.

                        On top of that there are particular WSO authors I strictly stay away from, since their course style is not in tune with how i run my business.

                        Even with all the drama that can happen in the comments of some WSO's i can gather more about a particular WSO than simply knowing that it's "WSO of the Day". To me it's pretty much a useless title.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    I am with the OP on this one. It's not sour grapes on his part and he is entitled to share his views just as we all are.

    Play the ball - not the man.

    Sal
    Signature
    Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
    You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Maybe your product sucks. Your attitude does
    Signature
    Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
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  • Profile picture of the author Charles AK
    if your product fails, you need to do everything in your power to make your next one successful, take it as a learning experience and move on, if I learned anything from my last wso is if anything went wrong it is probably my fault, that experience taught me that I need to focus more on copywriting and selling my product, after all if I don't have enough to say about my product, its a signal that I truly don't stand behind it 100%, so why should anyone else.

    my last wso, was a huge fail on my part and a lot of things went wrong, but did I blame it on politics or some conspiracy? no I took it as a learning experience, and that was worth my expenses in creating the product.

    you are right about the value, I strongly suggest this forum start a quality test in the future, right now you can pretty much post anything and get it approved.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    In all fairness, those who continually play the party line tune, are out of line. The WSO of the Day and the complaints about the WSO forum could be cleared up very quickly for the most part.
    • You could eliminate anyone using Warrior Plus as a payment processor.
    • You could eliminate any and all income claims.
    • You could require picture ID (or other verifiable proof) before posting a WSO.
    • You could eliminate the section completely.
    • You could eliminate the words WSOTD in the posts (remember blackhat = bluefart and godaddy = nononono?)
    • Etc. Etc. Etc.
    On the one hand when someone complains about rules many of us oldtimers are quick to remind the whiner that this is someone else's house and visitors have to play by their rules. The same goes here. Play by the rules or leave and if not willingly by force.

    Mark

    PS I'm not complaining about any rules or suggesting any changes. I'm simply stating that you can't have it both ways - whiners have to play by the rules and so do WSO sellers (and their related 3rd party functions).

    For example, any WSO that used a WordPress blog on the owner's site COULD be eliminated from this section. There's really no such thing as 3rd party/out of our control problem when it comes to what is posted here.

    What the rules are and how they are enforced is not up to me. Some of the suggestions I've made here would be so difficult to enforce or so expensive to cover that it would not be worth the effort. But the options to do these things are there and I think comments like this one are not nonsense - whether I agree or disagree, like or dislike.
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  • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
    "WSO of the Day" Does not demand that you buy that product. There are so many WSO's that, it can be impossible to keep track and check read through them. I use the "award" as a filter or a recommendation that, it might be something worth looking at. I have found that WSO's of the day to generally be good products, it doesn't mean I'll buy, as it may not be what I need. But they are usually worth checking out.
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  • Profile picture of the author betterwtveter
    If I seriously want to use a WSO, I depend on the feedback from other warriors before spending my time with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

    was the product deserving of WSOTD? I ask this because I recently viewed the thread and found the last 3 pages literally filled with complaints, refunds requests, and accusations of ripping off other WSO methods.
    Well, that's one in the eye for all the people (nearly used another word there ) who whine that "complaints, refund requests and negative reviews are deleted", isn't it?!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    To the OP:

    Don't complain about why your WSO didn't make it. Figure out what will make it work and relaunch it if you want to.

    If what will make it work - commissions, rubbing shoulders, scratching backs, etc. - doesn't fit in with your system of ethics, morals, and values - you have a hard decision to make about whether to go or no go. Most of us here have had to make that decision and sometimes it's not an easy decision to make.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      To the OP:

      Don't complain about why your WSO didn't make it. Figure out what will make it work and relaunch it if you want to.

      If what will make it work - commissions, rubbing shoulders, scratching backs, etc. - doesn't fit in with your system of ethics, morals, and values - you have a hard decision to make about whether to go or no go. Most of us here have had to make that decision and sometimes it's not an easy decision to make.

      Mark
      Thank you.

      It's actually less about my product not getting WSOTD, and more about how corrupt the selling behind it all is...

      I think you nailed it on the head; the reason that I am upset. I have been working online off and on for 6 years, yet full time for the past 2 years trying to unlock the secret to internet marketing, and the closer I get to the secret, the more I interact and mingle with other marketers, the more I despise the entire IM scene because I start to come to the realization that it is corrupt, much like the government lol. Run by only the greed for power and money. There are the insiders and there are outsiders, and if you're not in, then you're out, period. If making that transition requires me to hold myself superior to anyone else, then I'm out.

      My beliefs are that everyone is equal, and no one is better than the next.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        There are the insiders and there are outsiders, and if you're not in, then you're out, period.
        You make it sound like there's only one circle, and no way for anyone to get in past some mysterious gatekeeper.

        That person does not exist.

        Start your own circle. Or use paid traffic systems. Or build your own list. Or deal with individuals, rather than "the Old Guard" as a group.

        Or all of the above.

        What you've said here is among the most common complaints I've heard over the years. It carries a faint hint of entitlement. My response, which I stole from a friend, is simple: There's a reason it's called networking, and not net-playing, or net-sitting-around.


        Paul
        Signature
        .
        Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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        • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          You make it sound like there's only one circle, and no way for anyone to get in past some mysterious gatekeeper.

          That person does not exist.

          Start your own circle. Or use paid traffic systems. Or build your own list. Or deal with individuals, rather than "the Old Guard" as a group.

          Or all of the above.

          What you've said here is among the most common complaints I've heard over the years. It carries a faint hint of entitlement. My response, which I stole from a friend, is simple: There's a reason it's called networking, and not net-playing, or net-sitting-around.


          Paul
          Agreed, which is the silver lining of the dark cloud.

          But I have right to blow off some steam and share what I have learned with this forum, do I not?

          Thanks for outlining the positive. Really.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
        I truly believe there are plenty of good guys - even those who only sell how to make money stuff. These are people, just like you and me, who saw an opportunity to enhance their life and help their families by starting an online business.

        They handle customers fairly, they don't go overboard with the hype, they have good products that add true value, etc.

        Then you have the scum who would sell their mother for a buck, who would lie, who would overhype the hype, who would throw together a piece of trash and call it value, who doesn't care about their customers, etc.

        And, as with most large populations of people, most of them may be somewhere in the middle of those two "standards."

        At times it's hard to know WHO to trust and who has the value but isn't that the same as car salesman, real estate agents, doctors, etc.?

        In the end, the basic human needs - love, money, etc. rule the day. Money is so tied into every other aspect of life in such a way that people can go crazy about it.

        Most people need to eat every day. Most people need to help feed others every day such as children. That is a necessity of life - you will die without it. But if there's no money what do you do? Where do you turn to? The government? The church? Friends? Many of us don't like to go that route so we get this idea we can start a business online.

        And because the need for food, shelter, love/companionship are SO strong, that drives many to do things that others think are corrupt, unethical, immoral, etc. But in many cases it's just business - life - how things work.

        For example Bill Platt told how he picks affiliate products and admitted he was looking out for #1. If HIS needs aren't likely to be met with a product then he most likely won't promote it.

        Does that make him a scum or unethical or a crook? In and of itself no. From my limited interactions with him (through forum only) I get the sense that he's a good guy. But he has to look out for his family and make sure they are happy, healthy and can eat - just like you and me have to look out for ourselves.

        Another point here is that I don't know YOU. Your product may be unethical, illegal, immoral in MY eyes if I saw it but I haven't. I'm spending valuable time responding to this situation of yours - trying to help out a little if I can - and in the end you may be a scammer with a scam product. I'm not judging before I write if I don't know. But later if I find out your stuff falls into one of those categories - my contempt for the community at large grows another step.

        The point in this long winded thing is that it's a perfectly understandable emotion and their IS some validity to it. That's why you have to decide if it's worth it to continue with this group you see as corrupt or move on to something else OR find a balance somewhere in the middle where you can stay away from the "corruption" but still be in the business and have peace about what you are doing.

        Mark

        Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

        Thank you.

        It's actually less about my product not getting WSOTD, and more about how corrupt the selling behind it all is...

        I think you nailed it on the head; the reason that I am upset. I have been working online off and on for 6 years, yet full time for the past 2 years trying to unlock the secret to internet marketing, and the closer I get to the secret, the more I interact and mingle with other marketers, the more I despise the entire IM scene because I start to come to the realization that it is corrupt, much like the government lol. Run by only the greed for power and money. There are the insiders and there are outsiders, and if you're not in, then you're out, period. If making that transition requires me to hold myself superior to anyone else, then I'm out.

        My beliefs are that everyone is equal, and no one is better than the next.
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        • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

          I truly believe there are plenty of good guys - even those who only sell how to make money stuff. These are people, just like you and me, who saw an opportunity to enhance their life and help their families by starting an online business.

          They handle customers fairly, they don't go overboard with the hype, they have good products that add true value, etc.

          Then you have the scum who would sell their mother for a buck, who would lie, who would overhype the hype, who would throw together a piece of trash and call it value, who doesn't care about their customers, etc.

          And, as with most large populations of people, most of them may be somewhere in the middle of those two "standards."

          At times it's hard to know WHO to trust and who has the value but isn't that the same as car salesman, real estate agents, doctors, etc.?

          In the end, the basic human needs - love, money, etc. rule the day. Money is so tied into every other aspect of life in such a way that people can go crazy about it.

          Most people need to eat every day. Most people need to help feed others every day such as children. That is a necessity of life - you will die without it. But if there's no money what do you do? Where do you turn to? The government? The church? Friends? Many of us don't like to go that route so we get this idea we can start a business online.

          And because the need for food, shelter, love/companionship are SO strong, that drives many to do things that others think are corrupt, unethical, immoral, etc. But in many cases it's just business - life - how things work.

          For example Bill Platt told how he picks affiliate products and admitted he was looking out for #1. If HIS needs aren't likely to be met with a product then he most likely won't promote it.

          Does that make him a scum or unethical or a crook? In and of itself no. From my limited interactions with him (through forum only) I get the sense that he's a good guy. But he has to look out for his family and make sure they are happy, healthy and can eat - just like you and me have to look out for ourselves.

          Another point here is that I don't know YOU. Your product may be unethical, illegal, immoral in MY eyes if I saw it but I haven't. I'm spending valuable time responding to this situation of yours - trying to help out a little if I can - and in the end you may be a scammer with a scam product. I'm not judging before I write if I don't know. But later if I find out your stuff falls into one of those categories - my contempt for the community at large grows another step.

          The point in this long winded thing is that it's a perfectly understandable emotion and their IS some validity to it. That's why you have to decide if it's worth it to continue with this group you see as corrupt or move on to something else OR find a balance somewhere in the middle where you can stay away from the "corruption" but still be in the business and have peace about what you are doing.

          Mark

          You are right. I know that not everyone is all about the money and I need to focus on the one's who are not.

          Thank you for your clear responses and your help.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

          Thank you.

          It's actually less about my product not getting WSOTD, and more about how corrupt the selling behind it all is...
          Well, jaded maybe - not sure corrupt fits the majority.


          I think you nailed it on the head; the reason that I am upset. I have been working online off and on for 6 years, yet full time for the past 2 years trying to unlock the secret to internet marketing, and the closer I get to the secret, the more I interact and mingle with other marketers, the more I despise the entire IM scene because I start to come to the realization that it is corrupt, much like the government lol.
          Oh yes! The big secret! Me too.

          I've given up on the secret and decided to just build a business - but if you figure that secret out do give me a call. Would love to speed things up here...

          Run by only the greed for power and money. There are the insiders and there are outsiders, and if you're not in, then you're out, period. If making that transition requires me to hold myself superior to anyone else, then I'm out.

          My beliefs are that everyone is equal, and no one is better than the next.
          My beliefs are that everyone has equal opportunity -but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is equal.

          There are people who are much better at marketing than I.

          There are people who are much worse than I.

          There are people who comprehend what is necessary but don't implement.

          There are people who don't understand what they are doing, but implement anyway and all goes quite well for them.

          Now, I've always agreed that the title "wsotd" was a bit hazy for those not familiar with the forum. But in defense of the other side of what is right and wrong try imagining for a minute that you own warrior plus or a similar platform.

          Would you not look to mail offers that are hot topics? Would you not try to find offers that are showing a high conversion rate? And would you see that high conversion based on sales that happened from the start? And could those sales have come from the initial vendor mailing to his personal list? - A list they built from knowing how to market (even though their product might not be the best up there)?

          Some of those "As seen on TV" products work - and some are total crap. But in the end it boils down to the marketing.

          I would be really surprised to find out that Mike actually tried every product he recommends to his list LOL. (would never bet on it). How would he even have the time when he's busy running his business? He's most likely relying on numbers, and looking for those who can get the conversions.

          I've called out on at least one crap wsotd in the past. It's bound to happen.

          The same way your big brands will try offering a new product and sometimes it flops.

          It's going to happen - plain and simple.

          Not everyone can be Miss America. You have to appease the judges. And even those judges have screwed up in the past. All of those girls have equal opportunity to show the best of themselves - but in the end they are not all equal.
          Signature

          "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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          • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
            Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

            Well, jaded maybe - not sure corrupt fits the majority.


            Oh yes! The big secret! Me too.

            I've given up on the secret and decided to just build a business - but if you figure that secret out do give me a call. Would love to speed things up here...


            My beliefs are that everyone has equal opportunity -but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is equal.

            There are people who are much better at marketing than I.

            There are people who are much worse than I.

            There are people who comprehend what is necessary but don't implement.

            There are people who don't understand what they are doing, but implement anyway and all goes quite well for them.

            Now, I've always agreed that the title "wsotd" was a bit hazy for those not familiar with the forum. But in defense of the other side of what is right and wrong try imagining for a minute that you own warrior plus or a similar platform.

            Would you not look to mail offers that are hot topics? Would you not try to find offers that are showing a high conversion rate? And would you see that high conversion based on sales that happened from the start? And could those sales have come from the initial vendor mailing to his personal list? - A list they built from knowing how to market (even though their product might not be the best up there)?

            Some of those "As seen on TV" products work - and some are total crap. But in the end it boils down to the marketing.

            I would be really surprised to find out that Mike actually tried every product he recommends to his list LOL. (would never bet on it). How would he even have the time when he's busy running his business? He's most likely relying on numbers, and looking for those who can get the conversions.

            I've called out on at least one crap wsotd in the past. It's bound to happen.

            The same way your big brands will try offering a new product and sometimes it flops.

            It's going to happen - plain and simple.

            Not everyone can be Miss America. You have to appease the judges. And even those judges have screwed up in the past. All of those girls have equal opportunity to show the best of themselves - but in the end they are not all equal.
            Well the "secret" is that there is no secret at all. It all comes down to you, hard work, and belief in yourself. This in regards to success and overall happiness. Well, I guess it's some sort of a secret lol...

            But the secret to internet marketing success, within the internet marketing niche, mostly, is joining the side of sellers who take advantage of the buyers.

            Fortunately, as others have stated in this thread, not all are like that. And it is those who I will focus on.

            My beef is with myself, in a sense, having realizing that the past two years of daunting struggle, have been somewhat wasted as it has all lead up to this. But I will take the knowledge that I have acquired from the years of struggle and apply them to something I truly enjoy... Helping others find and achieve their dream.

            Thanks
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              But the secret to internet marketing success, within the internet marketing niche, mostly, is joining the side of sellers who take advantage of the buyers.
              I am reminded of the reply Laurie Anderson (??) gave when a reporter asked her how she dealt with all the negativity in the world:

              "You're hanging around with the wrong people."


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              • Profile picture of the author Tinkerbell
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                I am reminded of the reply Laurie Anderson (??) gave when a reporter asked her how she dealt with all the negativity in the world:

                "You're hanging around with the wrong people."


                Paul
                :-) And it happens to a lot of us because, well, there's no "these are the right people to hang around with" list anywhere nearby and if there were, someone would find a way to get on it when they didn't belong.

                Reminds me of the Joker asking "Who do you trust?"

                In the end, who to trust is a decision of the individual.
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            • Profile picture of the author shane_k
              Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post


              But the secret to internet marketing success, within the internet marketing niche, mostly, is joining the side of sellers who take advantage of the buyers.
              Kind of reminds me of that story where this white guy is talking to a Voodoo priest.

              And he asks the voodoo priest, "what is the difference between white magic and black magic?"

              The voodoo priest says, "Black magic is magic that other people use against me, and White magic is magic that I use against others."

              Thinking along those lines, I wonder if you would continue to believe what you wrote above, if you were a part of that "in" crowd that you so want to be a part of.
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              • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
                Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

                Kind of reminds me of that story where this white guy is talking to a Voodoo priest.

                And he asks the voodoo priest, "what is the difference between white magic and black magic?"

                The voodoo priest says, "Black magic is magic that other people use against me, and White magic is magic that I use against others."

                Thinking along those lines, I wonder if you would continue to believe what you wrote above, if you were a part of that "in" crowd that you so want to be a part of.
                It's next to impossible to respond to something like this...

                You're reading the end of the book and claiming to know the entire story.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    "WSO of the Day" is just a cleverly named newsletter, period.

    Mike doesn't always pick the very best products available, but in most cases, he does try to tell us about products that people on the sales thread are saying good things about.

    I am an affiliate too, and I can assure you that products are picked primarily based upon how much we as affiliates think we can earn by telling people about those products.

    We don't generally look at products that have low sales, except on rare occasions.

    Sometimes I will buy a low-selling product to see if it is something that might be a sleeper product, but the real sleeper products are actually few and far between. I have only found two.

    There are several factors involved in the decision process about offers to pick:

    1. Is it something our list has shown a willingness to purchase?
    2. How well is the current offer converting?
    3. How many refunds is this product generating?
    4. What is the price, and by extension, commission paid on this product?

    Only after I have answered these questions will I go to the next step.

    5. Does the sales copy look good?
    6. Is feedback good?
    7. Does the product look good? (I generally review most products myself, but not everyone does.)

    The final decision to promote or not is almost always predicated by whether we feel we can make money promoting that product.

    If your product was missed by affiliates, it happens.

    But keep this in mind, most vendors who get a lot of attention from affiliates do so, because they network with affiliate sellers and they discuss product launches in advance of the launch.

    For example, I received a Skype message this morning from a vendor who has made me lots of money previously. Her product is being released on April 5th -- 9 days from now -- and she has already sent me the information I need (including a review copy) to make a decision about promoting her product.

    p.s. I will be promoting her product, when it is released.

    As a seller, you are crying over spilled milk.

    You did not do the necessary advanced marketing to ensure your products success, and now you are complaining that no one noticed your product.

    You dropped the ball, and now you are blaming others for your failure.
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    • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      "WSO of the Day" is just a cleverly named newsletter, period.

      Mike doesn't pretend to pick the very best products available, but in most cases, he does try to tell us about products that people on the sales thread are saying good things about.

      I am an affiliate too, and I can assure you that products are picked primarily based upon how much we as affiliates think we can earn by telling people about those products.

      We don't generally look at products that have low sales, except on rare occasions.

      Sometimes I will buy a low-selling product to see if it is something that might be a sleeper product, but the real sleeper products are actually few and far between. I have only found two.

      There are several factors involved in the decision process about offers to pick:

      1. Is it something our list has shown a willingness to purchase?
      2. How well is the current offer converting?
      3. How many refunds is this product generating?
      4. What is the price, and by extension, commission paid on this product?

      Only after I have answered these questions will I go to the next step.

      5. Does the sales copy look good?
      6. Is feedback good?
      7. Does the product look good? (I generally review most products myself, but not everyone does.)

      The final decision to promote or not is almost always predicated by whether we feel we can make money promoting that product.

      If your product was missed by affiliates, it happens.

      But keep this in mind, most vendors who get a lot of attention from affiliates do so, because they network with affiliate sellers and they discuss product launches in advance of the launch.

      For example, I received a Skype message this morning from a vendor who has made me lots of money previously. Her product is being released on April 5th -- 9 days from now -- and she has already sent me the information I need (including a review copy) to make a decision about promoting her product.

      p.s. I will be promoting her product, when it is released.

      As a seller, you are crying over spilled milk.

      You did not do the necessary advanced marketing to ensure your products success, and now you are complaining that no one noticed your product.

      You dropped the ball, and now you are blaming others for your failure.

      You sure you're not jumping to a conclusion without knowing the facts of the matter?

      Thanks for the post anyway. Some good info in there...
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

        Talk about jumping to a conclusion without knowing the facts of the matter.

        Thanks for the post, though.

        The only "facts of the matter" are the ones that you have posted in this thread.

        I read your comments and my post was based on what you have said.

        Either you can be adult enough to accept a fair criticism, or you can try to paint me as an idiot who doesn't know any better. Your choice.
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        • Profile picture of the author D3fiantMark3ting
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          The only "facts of the matter" are the ones that you have posted in this thread.

          I read your comments and my post was based on what you have said.

          Either you can be adult enough to accept a fair criticism, or you can try to paint me as an idiot who doesn't know any better. Your choice.
          Never said anything of the sort, and I actually rephrased what I said. Believe me, I take no offense to criticism whatsoever as I only see them as a way to learn. Are you sure you do the same?

          It's crucial that you understand that you can either paint me as an idiot, or someone who doesn't know any better just the same... Your choice.

          For the record, I don't see you as an idiot at all as I actually gained value from your post which is why I said thank you.

          Make sure you're not accusing others of what you're actually guilty of.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

            Never said anything of the sort, and I actually rephrased what I said. Believe me, I take no offense to criticism whatsoever as I only see them as a way to learn. Are you sure you do the same?

            It's crucial that you understand that you can either paint me as an idiot, or someone who doesn't know any better just the same... Your choice.

            For the record, I don't see you as an idiot at all as I actually gained value from your post which is why I said thank you.

            Make sure you're not accusing others of what you're guilty of.

            LOL






            You may have edited your comment and changed it to a question, but your original comment suggested that I was commenting on something that I did not understand.


            Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

            Talk about jumping to a conclusion without knowing the facts of the matter.

            Thanks for the post, though.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi tpw,

      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      "WSO of the Day" is just a cleverly named newsletter, period.

      Mike doesn't pretend to pick the very best products available
      From this page -

      Only The Best WSOs, Every Day

      WSO of the Day is a feature of WarriorPlus that helps you uncover great deals on top-selling and top-quality offers from the WSO Forum.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi tpw,

        Only The Best WSOs, Every Day

        WSO of the Day is a feature of WarriorPlus that helps you uncover great deals on top-selling and top-quality offers from the WSO Forum.
        From this page -

        "Best" is in the eye of the beholder, right?

        My idea of "best" clearly isn't Mike's idea of "best", but that doesn't mean he is actually wrong.
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Bill,

          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          "Best" is in the eye of the beholder, right?

          My idea of "best" clearly isn't Mike's idea of "best", but that doesn't mean he is actually wrong.
          Fixed it for him -

          Only The Most Lucrative WSOs, Every Day

          WSO of the Day is a feature of WarriorPlus that helps me uncover great commissions by promoting (what end up becoming) top-selling offers on the WSO Forum.
          Signature


          Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Originally Posted by D3fiantMark3ting View Post

    1.) I have seen multiple WSOs go unnoticed due to the authors lack of popularity no matter how awesome their product is, including mine. Recently I have been getting lots of PM's from buyers of my product just to thank me for an excellent product and how it truly helped them with their business. I have a 0% refund rate and nothing but positive reviews. Did I get WSOTD? Nope.

    2.) On the other hand, a product launched the day before mine (on the same topic BTW), which did get WSOTD. Not a problem at all, big congratulations to him! But was the product deserving of WSOTD? I ask this because I recently viewed the thread and found the last 3 pages literally filled with complaints, refunds requests, and accusations of ripping off other WSO methods.
    This is the great thing about the WSO forum, you can have an amazing product but if you don't market it correctly, it will flunk. This is what it sounds like what happened to you here and yes it is annoying when you see other marketers succeed even though your product is better (In your eyes). This should be driving you harder to find more affiliates, network with others and market your product better.

    This is also the other great thing about the WSO section, even though Mike recommended this product based on his opinion, it doesn't mean others have to follow it. Mike recommended a product which got a load of negative reviews, this means the people here called the product out as being crap and reviewed it accordingly. When you buy something the first thing you do is read the reviews which would of told you not to bother.

    You can't get angry because Mike recommended a product over yours...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Joseph,
      I'm not taking any sides because I don't care either way and I've been here long enough to know that Mike Lantz is separate from the warrior forum but when Mike sends out a WSO of the day, it links right to the sales thread and a newbie doesn't see the rules at the top of the WSO section of the forum.
      That's a fair point, but if they haven't been exposed to the forum through anything other than sales pitches in emails, the relationship to the forum is going to be irrelevant to them. Sort of like emails sending someone to a Clickbank product, except that Clickbank really is the seller.


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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        But I have right to blow off some steam and share what I have learned with this forum, do I not?
        None of us have "rights" here, except Allen. The rest of us are guests, and have privileges and options.

        I know. It sounds nitpicky. Keeping that in mind, though, has a remarkable clarifying effect on how we think about, and use, the forum.


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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    Just remember that one guy picks it. It really is meaningless. But people that don't know that tend to think it is a quality item when it may or may not be.

    I give it no weight in my decisions.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Here's how I see it.

    The 'WSO of the Day', 'Product of the Day', whatever you want to call it, is still just ONE person's opinion, nothing else. Just like this thread and the OP thinking their WSO is worthy of an award (it may well be) is only his opinion also. Who's to say one persons opinion is more valid than anothers? Disagreeing with someone does not mean they are wrong.

    It's a business they are running and they obviously want to maximize profits. That means they will likely select offers they think are going to sell well. That means products put out by recognized sellers or high profile Warrior Forum members are going to take preference because it's an easier sell. People already know and trust those people so a lot of the work is already done. Whether that's right or wrong is another thing but it's business.

    Take it from someone who has received a few of those awards. They are definitely not the be all and end all. They are nice if you get them but I have had products that didn't get the award sell better than some of those that did. So it's never a guarantee of anything. You are much better spending your time on creating a great product and recruiting top affiliates rather than worrying about these awards. Almost everytime I received these awards it was when I was not trying to. Everytime I tried to receive those awards I never got them. So move on to more important stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew D
    And that is the reason I doubt the credibility of a WSO, some of my friend bought a WSO from WSOTD and he really disappointed because that's just a rip off from the same WSO 3 months ago. I only interested in WSO that have positive review and I know the buyer myself. No one want to get a rip-off WSO.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    ho hum...

    another day... another useless wso thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      ho hum...

      another day... another useless wso thread.
      And yet, you've made two posts in it.

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author markwilson4074
    Atleast, WSO of the Day always catches the attention, hence giving it a better chance for more sales and money!
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    There is alot going on in this thread, so, I apologize if I ask a question that has been addressed already.

    Is the word "WSO of the day" a monopoloy? If warrior plus can use it, couldn't anyone who has an WSO use it?

    As deceptive and sleazy as that may sound it is an even playing field, (I think). Take your emotion out when replying to this question because I just want to know why it wouldn't be ok to use those words for any WSO .
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by theory expert View Post

      Take your emotion out when replying to this question because I just want to know why it wouldn't be ok to use those words for any WSO .
      I had no emotion in it, to start with.

      The only thing I think perhaps wouldn't be ok about that is that the expression "WSO Of The Day" does seem to imply that there's been some kind of selection process involved, doesn't it? So it might be thought a little deceptive for an individual Warrior with an individual WSO to use it to describe his own product? :confused:

      Other than that, I take your point completely.

      Of course, there are also people (as you can see in several threads here) who choose not to do business with WarriorPlus at all, and consider that much of their marketing is designed to imply some sort of imprimatur of (or formal affiliation with) the Warrior Forum which they don't really have at all.
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      • Profile picture of the author theory expert
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


        The only thing I think perhaps wouldn't be ok about that is that the expression "WSO Of The Day" does seem to imply that there's been some kind of selection process involved, doesn't it? So it might be thought a little deceptive for an individual Warrior with an individual WSO to use it to describe his own product? :confused:
        Alexa I am of two minds on this. On the one hand, I definitely think it is unethical, but, at the same time, I cannot say it is wrong to add WSOTD. The expression can be interpreted as "WSO of the day" could simply mean WSOOTD for you the customer. A kind of in advance, "your welcome for finding this great product before you buy it".

        There is a thin line here.

        I am not arguing with you, but, I don't see how this could be policed. JMO
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi theory expert,

      Originally Posted by theory expert View Post

      I just want to know why it wouldn't be ok to use those words for any WSO .
      Apologies if any of the below, which I present as fact is actually incorrect -

      As far as I know, Mike Lantz -

      Got a domain called WarriorPlus and was the first to offer an integrated affiliate solution for WSOs, then was the first to use the term WSO of the day.

      Therefore he 'branded' these concepts and had first mover advantage and apparently there was no objection to any of these things from the forum owner.

      Therefore, if a WSO seller chooses to use the term when it isn't given by Mike Lantz, in my opinion that person is jumping on the bandwagon in a manner that is likely to deceive some prospects who only know part of the story.

      My personal opinion is that this type of bandwagon-jumping is lame and suggests to me that they don't have the balls to carve out their own brand, using their own unique ideas and to allow their product to gain momentum based on it's own merits.

      I would assume that the content of the product may have the same characteristics - 'borrowed', second-hand, not unique, not ground-breaking or inspirational, not entirely their own work, not capable of gaining it's own momentum without borrowing false momentum etc...

      Many people I come across here, I feel are more than capable of carving out their own niche and positioning themselves as thought leaders in various markets. I am saddened when I see them following the herd and jumping on bandwagons.

      It seems that the intelligent idea of reverse engineering and the ability to save time using typical computer tricks like copy/paste gets transmuted into a tendency to try and copy/paste other peoples' ideas and business brands in IM, not because most people aren't inventive but because they think that it's smart business to be lazy in this manner - which it's not, it's simply a waste of talent through sloth.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    My personal opinion is that this type of bandwagon-jumping is lame...
    Would "WSO of the Day" and even Warrior Plus not also fall into that? After all, Mike used Allens brand for both.

    -g
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Garrie,

      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      Would "WSO of the Day" and even Warrior Plus not also fall into that? After all, Mike used Allens brand for both.
      I don't know what the arrangement was between the two of them, but I would be surprised if someone was allowed to jump on the bandwagon in that manner without providing recompense of some sort - in my opinion it deserves it.

      So I think it's a bit apples and oranges because I presume it was based on some kind of agreement, but I have no idea about that. If it wasn't agreed beforehand, then it's more downright rude/trespassing than lame! I can't help but see it as a partnership, whether it actually is or isn't, therefore I can't possibly see it as lame, but rather damn good business on both sides.

      The fact that it's a service rather than an information product based on a person's alleged knowledge/ingenuity kind of makes a difference in terms of bandwagon jumping. The forum is more 'institution' than bandwagon.

      Hi Kay,

      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I agree it would be lame - but is it up to the Warrior Forum to enforce the use? If the WF doesn't endorse that "title" why would they police the use of it? That part gets a bit grey to me.

      Wouldn't enforcement be up to Mike L who could disallow use of the payment and affiliate platforms for that seller?
      I have no opinion to offer on that enforcement aspect of it.

      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      If you say falsely using the title would be deceptive to buyers - isn't that the same as saying the title indicates an "approved" product? Tricky wicket there.
      I'm not sure exactly what point you're getting at there - but if I take a stab at it, my opinion is that all that the 'official' WSO of the day title means to me is that it's likely to be a 100% commission product in most cases, as opposed to anything at all to do with the quality of the offering. That's just my opinion based on what I have observed.

      So yes, on that basis I think it is a little deceptive but I have no dog in that fight because I retired from WSO buying some time ago.

      Whenever I take a peek at what's on offer, it seems that the inventiveness of the sellers in there seems to be being applied in all manner of ways to having all sorts of variations of the 'WSO of the day' theme to the point that at a glance, it seems that every single WSO has been given some kind of award!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    If someone DID use WSOTD in the currently unintended fashion (not chosen by Mike Lantz) and IF that person was then banned, doesn't that then stand to reason that there IS some control over 3rd party platforms, people, and decisions?

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Therefore, if a WSO seller chooses to use the term when it isn't given by Mike Lantz, in my opinion that person is jumping on the bandwagon in a manner that is likely to deceive some prospects who only know part of the story.
      I agree it would be lame - but is it up to the Warrior Forum to enforce the use? If the WF doesn't endorse that "title" why would they police the use of it? That part gets a bit grey to me.

      Wouldn't enforcement be up to Mike L who could disallow use of the payment and affiliate platforms for that seller?

      If you say falsely using the title would be deceptive to buyers - isn't that the same as saying the title indicates an "approved" product? Tricky wicket there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mark,
      If someone DID use WSOTD in the currently unintended fashion (not chosen by Mike Lantz) and IF that person was then banned, doesn't that then stand to reason that there IS some control over 3rd party platforms, people, and decisions?
      Nope. We're not telling Mike who to pick. We're telling other people not to attempt to use a 'title' which has developed its own meaning over the years, and which is perceived by many to have a certain standing, in an effort to deceive the members.


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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Kay,
        If you say falsely using the title would be deceptive to buyers - isn't that the same as saying the title indicates an "approved" product? Tricky wicket there.
        This isn't even a little tricky.

        The group, as a whole, has assigned a certain credibility to the term. Whether you or I think that's deserved or not is irrelevant. The perception is there. And, more importantly, it carries the clear implication that it's Mike Lantz's pick.

        Would it be inappropriate for us to stomp someone for saying their offer was Kay King's Pick of the Day when you hadn't endorsed the product?


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        • Profile picture of the author shane_k
          Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding View Post

          Really Paul?

          There is no trademark or copyright on the term "WSOTD".

          Perhaps I think my WSO IS the WSO of the day. I don't see what's wrong with it, especially if you have a disclaimer somewhere in the copy indicating it is not the W+ WSOTD

          Banning for doing that is pretty extreme, IMHO.

          Well it is easy to say that someone would want to use "WSOTD" because they feel that their product is the WSO of the day.

          Any if there was no policing then anyone could claim that.

          But I am betting most people would use it not because they believe their product is the best of the day, but because of what Paul states below.


          That these people realize that the title WSOTD has some power and influence to it, and the actual reason they want to use that title would be for no other reason than to make more sales.

          Which hidden inside of "make more sales" is the deception that their product carries the same weight as those other products that have the "official title" of WSOTD.

          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Mark,Nope. We're not telling Mike who to pick. We're telling other people not to attempt to use a 'title' which has developed its own meaning over the years, and which is perceived by many to have a certain standing, in an effort to deceive the members.


          Paul

          Now that I think about it though, if everyone were to start using the title WOSTD, then that title or status would quickly lose it's credibility and people would no longer trust it
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          The group, as a whole, has assigned a certain credibility to the term. Whether you or I think that's deserved or not is irrelevant. The perception is there. And, more importantly, it carries the clear implication that it's Mike Lantz's pick.
          It does to you, and to me, and maybe to most people who've posted in this thread.

          But aren't there also many threads started off by members of this forum who don't appreciate that at all, and think (perhaps partly or mostly because of terms like "WarriorPlus" and "WSO-Pro" and what they very reasonably imply to anyone who doesn't know better) that it carries the imprimatur or endorsement of the forum? And clearly there are many more members who don't start off threads on the subject but also think that. And who can blame them?

          I strongly suspect that there are many people here who would find it far preferable even for Mike Lantz's "WSO Of The Day" just to be called "Mike Lantz's WSO Of The Day" rather than just "WSO Of The Day".

          I don't imagine that that's ever going to happen, of course, and I'm not requesting it (though I would, in a heartbeat, if I thought it had a chance of actually being considered), but I'm very clearly far from the only person distinctly uncomfortable about what I see as a regularly recurring implicit (if not "express") representation of "officialdom" by WarriorPlus. Indeed, it appears that the very names used by Mike Lantz have been specifically selected for their ostensible authority, doesn't it?

          I accept entirely your point that whether you or I think that's deserved or not is irrelevant, but I'm still asking you as an irrelevant, supplementary question (if you don't mind): are you yourself entirely comfortable with that, Paul, and/or do you think it's actually misleading people?
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Of course Mike has no control over the forum, and he cannot enforce that rule without going to the forum management.
    If they are using W+ he can easily enforce it. He can disable their payment links.

    Garrie
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Of course in an ideal world we would all read the rules stuff at the top
    And in an imperfect world, ignorance of the law (rules) is...

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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Wouldn't it be great if we had a WFI of The Day?

    It would certainly help my decision making.

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Alexa,
      are you yourself entirely comfortable with that, Paul, and/or do you think it's actually misleading people?
      Two separate questions there. As for the first... I am neither comfortable nor uncomfortable with it. It simply is.

      Why do I feel that way? That's wrapped up in the answer to your second question.

      When Mike first created the Warrior Plus service, this was a much smaller place. Everyone knew who was who, and we all understood that W+ was his baby, and not a part of the forum. The whole thing was discussed at length among the members.

      There was no confusion. No deception. Just someone providing a valuable service that was named what it was because of where it was designed to be used.

      That was 7 years ago. A lot of people have joined this group over those 7 years. Most don't care if WSOTD has any connection with the forum. Some do, and learn by reading the rules, or accepting the simple and truthful explanation that W+ is Mike's gig, not Allen's.

      As has always happened online, there are also people who join groups and make assumptions, rather than learning the culture and history involved. They insist their beliefs are correct, and expect the group to adjust to their preferences and assumptions. And when they run headlong into reality, they get hostile.

      The headaches they generate for themselves in this way are not my concern.

      And it certainly doesn't change the history that lead to the use of the term "WSOTD," or make it something it is not and has never been.


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