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Is Coaching considered multi-level marketing in Paypals' eyes ? ($499 - $999 per hour)

by davidkings
11 replies
Providing coaching, to clients, and want to accept money with paypal.

If you coach clients in internet marketing for $499 per hour through instant messenger, providing hot value and advice for them and a bit of a program, and you use paypal for accepting payments from them, then are paypal fine with this?

so 3 clients want your coaching, you provide them 3 separate paypal payment invoice links, all 3 pay you, then will paypal check this and not like it?
(or the same thing without me providing paypal invoices, and them just paying me themselves for 'services' )

on the basis that they see coaching in the IM field considered a multi-level marketing method ?

and can this following be done:
make the paypal description on the paypal link very 'vague' so that they wont know what the $499 is for? or not advisable ?
#$499 #$999 #coaching #eyes #hour #marketing #multilevel #paypals
  • Profile picture of the author nocturnal911
    I think sending money as services will be a no problem to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author m00d
      Paypal will be fine as long as no one complains, but at that price you better sure nuff know what your talking about. If I paid that and you gave me a line of bull I'd be disputing my payment with paypal before the barn doors closed. Paypal is awesome but they won't put up with BS...
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  • Profile picture of the author trevord92
    Multi-level marketing is essentially where you're paying affiliates commission on the people they've recruited (often several levels deep). That's completely different from charging more than one customer for a product or service that you sell directly to them with no-one else in the sales chain.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Big payments, until you have a good history with them, may be a problem to be aware of. They may want verification of who you are and why you are charging these prices.

    If you want to stay on their good side, the best bet normally is to don't try to hide anything.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
    Hi davidkings,

    Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

    on the basis that they see coaching in the IM field considered a multi-level marketing method ?
    Do you have a specific reason that makes you think that they would view it this way?
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    Roger Davis
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by davidkings View Post

    Is Coaching considered multi-level marketing in Paypals' eyes ? ($499 - $999 per hour)
    What you describe above has absolutely nothing to do with MLM at all. Like ExRat, above, I'm wondering what made you ask this question?

    MLM refers to the division of commission between multiple levels of distributors/affiliates/whatever-they're-called. There has to be at least a double-tier structure of dividing the money, for it to be any kind of MLM at all.

    With PayPal, it would be a mistake to try to "pretend" about anything. The thing to do is to contact them and explain that you're giving coaching, and how much you're charging, and who the customers are, and so on. This way, either they authorize it and you have no problem, or if they say "no" at least you can find another payment method and not risk losing your PayPal account over it.

    Trying to "make things very vague" and/or "conceal anything" is decidedly not the way forward, David.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Alexa,

      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      What you describe above has absolutely nothing to do with MLM at all.
      I would have worded my reply that way too, but I remember when paypal kicked out people paying out affiliates via paypal on two-tier affiliate programs, because they used a broad brush when deciding what constituted MLM and therefore a risk to them.

      Hence my wording
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      Roger Davis
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        The OP is doing coaching and "a bit of a program" - but doesn't say what "the program" is.

        Perhaps the "bit of a program" is the concern as anyone charging that amount for coaching knows the difference between selling a service and recruiting for mlm.

        Truth is - we don't know how paypal will define the course. If it sees a "how to make money" focus or there is an mlm involvement, it could be a problem.

        I know of one coaching course that was frozen by PP - no mlm involvement but the course was focused on teaching people a certain method to make money online and that may have been the reason.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    Alexa's posts are always so correct and brilliantly written... one of the reasons I keep coming back here.
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    • Profile picture of the author davidkings
      Originally Posted by trevord92 View Post

      Multi-level marketing is essentially where you're paying affiliates commission on the people they've recruited (often several levels deep). That's completely different from charging more than one customer for a product or service that you sell directly to them with no-one else in the sales chain.
      Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

      Hi davidkings,

      Do you have a specific reason that makes you think that they would view it this way?
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      What you describe above has absolutely nothing to do with MLM at all. Like ExRat, above, I'm wondering what made you ask this question?

      MLM refers to the division of commission between multiple levels of distributors/affiliates/whatever-they're-called. There has to be at least a double-tier structure of dividing the money, for it to be any kind of MLM at all.

      With PayPal, it would be a mistake to try to "pretend" about anything. The thing to do is to contact them and explain that you're giving coaching, and how much you're charging, and who the customers are, and so on. This way, either they authorize it and you have no problem, or if they say "no" at least you can find another payment method and not risk losing your PayPal account over it.

      Trying to "make things very vague" and/or "conceal anything" is decidedly not the way forward, David.
      thanks all.

      in regards to the above in bold, because I read this thread (specifically post 4 here):

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...marketing.html
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi davidkings,

        For some reason the OP (original poster) has deleted the original post in that thread you linked to.

        I guess you are referring to replies such as this one -

        There's a very fine line. If you heard the recent Paypal call with Anthony Aires (http://anthonyaires.com/PayPalcall.mp3) who also had his account shut down, you will find that Paypal look at some types of coaching/courses in a very different light.

        They consider them multi-level marketing because you are selling information to another person, who is then suppose to use that information to create a business that sells information to other people, and so on. So in their opinion, no one is actually receiving any tangible value from these transactions and thus why they think it is risky and don't want to be associated with it.

        Anyway, listen to the call above and you'll probably have a better understanding of why your coaching product has fallen under the MLM bracket.
        (Sidenote - if you can be more specific with your questions, you will get better answers, more quickly)

        It's impossible for anyone to legitimately reassure you that your paypal account will be OK in these circumstances. It's a grey area.

        I'm sorry I can't be more helpful, but if I were to try and make predictions about what paypal will or won't do, I would be misleading you.

        All I can advise is that you should read that reply and try and understand the situation, what paypal are trying to do, what are the triggers that encourage them to limit accounts etc and act accordingly.

        Try to avoid making income claims and promises to your clients. For example, I may well be launching a 'core skills' training service soon, but it's not 'coaching', it's training and I will make sure that I am absolutely clear that it has nothing to do with coaching people to make money, but training them to do specific tasks related to building and managing websites.

        I think that paypal are wary of coaching offers because so many are sold based upon BS income claims - specifically claims related to how much the student will make after they have been coached.

        As the quoted reply above states, this is particularly risky if the coaching you are offering is designed to train the other person to 'teach business skills' to others after they have been trained, such as in IM, because they see this as a never-ending train, a circle-jerk, where newbies train newbies.

        Hope this helps.
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        Roger Davis
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