Irate guy leaves voicemail, says if you're so good why sell teaching?

35 replies
An age-old complaint, first voicemail I've ever gotten though, in years, along the lines of "hey if you're so good at what you teach, why are you selling courses?". This fellow seemed genuinely irate, not so much at me, but at my entire industry, of those of us who sell education and training.

I phoned him back 23 minutes after getting his voicemail, to answer him personally (he was shocked that I would actually call him personally...and then after our conversation he asked which of my products he should buy first, lol. I said none, learn from my free content instead; took the high road of course).

I told him I agree with him, to check credentials and proof elements, that he's exactly right (and I believe this, strongly btw), that most of the people in my industry just sell how-to stuff without being able to do it themselves. Anyone else get that "hey if you're so good why sell what you know?" prospect objection? Seems par for the course for us info-marketers/educators. I just reply with the simple truth, which is best... any other replies/ideas?

thx,
k
#good #guy #irate #leaves #sell #teaching #voicemail
  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    You've got to wonder where some folk get off calling you out on your choice of career.

    I mean, WTF does it have to do with him what you choose to do for a living?

    Amazing.
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  • Profile picture of the author WarrenPeterson
    Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

    ... Anyone else get that "hey if you're so good why sell what you know?" prospect objection? Seems par for the course for us info-marketers/educators. I just reply with the simple truth, which is best... any other replies/ideas? ...
    This mostly applies to people who are either jaded or think they already know everything (or can learn it for free). Or, it applies where one is teaching a specific 'system' to make money.

    I coach business owners (and yes I am making online training myself), about running their companies. I work with them to identify weak spots, income mistakes, expense mistakes, discuss their systems and processes, etc... As an example, I can work with a guy who runs a restaurant and analyze his staffing. 9 times out of 10, I can find him a cost savings there, without impacting his operations. I can look at his expenses, his systems, and so on, and usually find a way to be more efficient. But do I have any any interest in running a restaurant? Not at all. I have zero desire to open and run one, that is a different skill set - and I'm not interested in doing so.

    I have an online site that teaches people how to design and build home theaters. I have built three of my own, and have directly helped many others build their own theaters. I now have awesome relationships in the home theater industry. Selling the process of how to build a home theater has zero impact on me building home theaters myself.

    Right now I am prepping some courses about business, marketing, money, etc... these are for entrepreneurs and business owners. None of them teach a specific 'how to make money' system though, as I don't believe in that concept. So there is no conflict of interest between what I teach and what my students gain.

    The question is harder to answer, and I tend to agree is a legitimate challenge, when one is teaching how to earn XYZ by doing ABC. If the teacher is not also doing ABC, then I think it is fair to question why not.

    I guess then, IMHO, it is entirely based upon what sort of training/teaching is being sold and how it is being sold....

    HTH
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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Originally Posted by WarrenPeterson View Post

      Right now I am prepping some courses about business, marketing, money, etc... these are for entrepreneurs and business owners. None of them teach a specific 'how to make money' system though, as I don't believe in that concept. So there is no conflict of interest between what I teach and what my students gain.
      I appreciate your response.

      I took the "offline business" idea (providing online marketing/consulting for offline businesses) that was so hot here for a while and ran with it, with my own twist. Instead of targeting local businesses, I went by industry and choose to work virtually. And I VERY DELIBERATELY chose an audience NOT in the business consulting/make-money industry AT ALL.

      I think telling others how to make money by doing what YOU do to make money can be legitimate, but it can also be a fine line and is very incestuous a lot of the time. So I steered clear of that completely by going after clients providing something very different than what I provide.

      And I love that. It makes for a clearer, cleaner business and avoids questions like this -- as well as a lot of the "yuck" factor.

      Michelle
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  • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
    Ken


    you should have just said

    "because I make 10 times more money teaching than doing" lol


    I remember a marketing event I went to 1990 with comodities guru Ken Roberts .. you can google him

    he said to me I make about a million dollars a year trading commodities


    and I make 25 million dollars a year teaching newbies how to trade

    that always stuck in my mind

    now the problem lies seperating the chaff from the wheat!!! did I say that right

    so many people in this how to make money space..

    you have guys just pumping out WSO after WSO..

    http://www.warriorforum.com/search.p...rchid=21167863

    it has a bad rap


    eddie





    Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

    An age-old complaint, first voicemail I've ever gotten though, in years, along the lines of "hey if you're so good at what you teach, why are you selling courses?". This fellow seemed genuinely irate, not so much at me, but at my entire industry, of those of us who sell education and training.

    I phoned him back 23 minutes after getting his voicemail, to answer him personally (he was shocked that I would actually call him personally...and then after our conversation he asked which of my products he should buy first, lol. I said none, learn from my free content instead; took the high road of course).

    I told him I agree with him, to check credentials and proof elements, that he's exactly right (and I believe this, strongly btw), that most of the people in my industry just sell how-to stuff without being able to do it themselves. Anyone else get that "hey if you're so good why sell what you know?" prospect objection? Seems par for the course for us info-marketers/educators. I just reply with the simple truth, which is best... any other replies/ideas?

    thx,
    k
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      "hey if you're so good at what you teach, why are you selling courses?".
      Some people love to teach, to pass along what they know.

      Some people believe it is wrong to keep important truths to oneself.

      As someone else said, some people like to have a variety of income streams.

      Some people learn more by teaching, and enjoy that process.

      Some people enjoy creating courses and are good at it.

      Someone who would ask the question probably wouldn't understand any of the above, so I'm not sure it's worth the time to try to explain to them.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        Some people love to teach, to pass along what they know.
        I tend to think that's just a line people use to justify the fact they cannot implement the information they have so their only choice is to teach it.
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        • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
          I tend to think that's just a line people use to justify the fact they cannot implement the information they have so their only choice is to teach it.
          Ah, here is someone who has never experienced the joy of seeing someone "get it."

          Who are you to say that perfectly sincere and capable people must be lying about what they enjoy doing? Just because you can't imagine teaching as a source of pleasure.

          Marcia Yudkin
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          • Profile picture of the author WillR
            Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

            Ah, here is someone who has never experienced the joy of seeing someone "get it."

            Who are you to say that perfectly sincere and capable people must be lying about what they enjoy doing? Just because you can't imagine teaching as a source of pleasure.

            Marcia Yudkin
            Marcia,

            Are there a very small minority of people who love teaching others? Yes. Do I think the majority of people who teach things are doing so because they can't implement the information themselves? Hell yes.

            Think back to your high school days. If your maths teacher was so great at maths, why is he teaching in some school earning the average wage? If my legal studies teacher was so great at law, why isn't he out there being a lawyer? If my science teacher was so great at science, why isn't he out there finding a cure for cancer?

            I once asked my school teacher why I should listen to what they were teaching me because I had no intention of wanting to end up as a high school teacher like they were. It's silly when you think about it. Learning from people who are not what you want to be. It doesn't make sense.

            As Jack Black once said, those who can't do, teach. And those who can't teach, teach gym.
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            • Profile picture of the author ashloren
              Originally Posted by WillR View Post

              If my science teacher was so great at science, why isn't he out there finding a cure for cancer?
              By the way, no one has found a cure for cancer. Even the best scientists in the world have failed here, so that's hardly a reasonable challenge to present anyone with.

              Originally Posted by WillR View Post

              I once asked my school teacher why I should listen to what they were teaching me because I had no intention of wanting to end up as a high school teacher like they were. It's silly when you think about it. Learning from people who are not what you want to be. It doesn't make sense.
              Really, so who taught you to read and write, two of the most valuable skills we can have as human beings? They taught you to read and write because they were better at it than you were.

              While I do agree that high school aged kids who know what they want to pursue should be allowed to skip it and begin college immediately (with some sort of government funding for starting early and doing well), I do not think that it makes sense to discredit educators simply because you have no interest in being one.

              Even when you figure out what it is that you want to be, you will have to learn it from someone. If no one who teaches is competent, you're in trouble!
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              • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                Before I address Ken's post below, I want to throw something out there.

                A few people have hauled out the old saw about "those who can, do; those who can't, teach." I really think you are misinterpreting that. I believe that the saying was originally meant to say that those physically capable of doing, did, and after one reached the age or physical state where doing full-time was no longer possible, one passed along one's knowledge to the next generation of doers, i.e. 'teaching'.

                My grandfather was a professional chef for most of his career, and he liked to say "those who can, do; those who can't, teach, and those who don't know enough to do either become critics and take their shots where they can." Anybody's ears burning?

                Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

                Who was it, Greek philosopher who said, "to learn, teach", helps you improve whatever you're trying to do anyways, as a side benefit, by having to articulate, organize and present your thoughts. And doing your craft in isolation is never as fun as doing things publicly, with legacy/impact, to help many people; social responsibility as well as productive business.

                -k
                This is exactly right.

                In the heat and flow of 'doing', it's easy to form habits, take shortcuts and skip steps.

                I've had the original question posed to me, and I answer that I have three reasons for doing so...

                I get off on that moment that Marcia described, when someone 'gets it'.

                I can often make more money by scaling what I do.

                I have an ego, and sometimes I just love to show off.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          I tend to think that's just a line people use to justify the fact they cannot implement the information they have so their only choice is to teach it.
          You sound a little jaded, Will. Some people DO enjoy teaching. Some people enjoy writing. I enjoy both. I've written over 700 newsletters. Each one teaches one or more things. They have always been free. If I didn't enjoy it a great deal, it wouldn't have lasted 16 years and counting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Morgan
    so many people in this how to make money space.. it has a bad rap
    Perhaps deservedly so though. You only have to look at the "How can I pay the rent?" posts on here with sigs that say "Learn how I made millions in my pyjamas".

    We bring it on our ourselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author mymegawriter
    Ken,

    I want to applaud something you said..."I just reply with the simple truth, which is best..." I used to work in the communications industry...i.e. phone company...and so many times I would receive a call from a customer that clearly was lied to about a product or service and it would just irk me so bad.

    The caller clearly had a valid concern and I think you handled it perfectly. Not only did you answer his concern but you also built trust with the person and developed a relationship that I feel is going to bring you an ROI that is immeasurable.

    One idea that may or may not apply is to tell people upfront why you are offering the course. Maybe not on the sales page but definitely at the beginning of your tutorials.

    Great thread for this conversation. Thank you for your contribution.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    Ken your coaching isn't even in the IM niche is it?
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    Thanks very much, and a special thx Marcia Y, I value your ideas a lot, you're one of the top folks out there. And right re the trading example... big point about leverage. If I can make $x/year "doing it" but due to smart IM, content leverage and partnerships, make $100x "teaching it", than it's perfectly smart to leverage your knowledge by selling how-to-do-it content, as long as it's well produced and genuinely valuable.

    Being a jazz musician for a hobby ( I collect and play old silver 1920s vintage silver saxes, here's me from a couple months ago, age 49 http://goo.gl/Vy7pv ), I think of the analogy of "yes your favorite Top 40 performer could've just played local nightclubs, making $x/year... but once they Leveraged by selling mp3s/CDs/DVDs, they are making $100,000x/year for the same work".. so it's just about leveraging your knowledge... preaching to the choir here i guess but still, it makes sense to Do And Teach, since ultimately you're adding more value anyways to the human condition, by impacting lots of people positively. And no re IM my main core is trading.

    And the older you get the more you realize leaving a legacy of valuable content to be remembered by, is also wise. Teaching, it's an honorable profession. I love teaching and encourage everyone to do that, in some manner, it's great to help a lot of people. Lots of testimonials/video testimonials helps prove the value of the teaching, from hundreds of happy customers, that's a positive.

    -k
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I love that you called him back.

    It shows you are a human being, who cares about other people.

    That's all he was really looking to get, he may just not have realized it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I like that you called back in order to take the high road - it showed concern for someone else's opinion and changed a mind along the way.

      The knee jerk reaction of most marketers when confronted with a critical or skeptical person is to go into defensive mode and bark back...or try to present a "superior" appearance by claiming high income or superior knowledge.

      You disarmed him - kudos.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Gram
    I can see where he is coming from. There are some that love to teach but there are many, many more "teachers" that teach because they can't do, aren't good at it, or don't know how to do it so they read some book and claim to the world that they are now an "expert".

    I think you handled it perfectly. Nothing wrong with teaching and I know that in your case, you know what you are talking about as well so you aren't some guy faking it.
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  • Profile picture of the author m00d
    Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

    An age-old complaint, first voicemail I've ever gotten though, in years, along the lines of "hey if you're so good at what you teach, why are you selling courses?". This fellow seemed genuinely irate, not so much at me, but at my entire industry, of those of us who sell education and training.

    I phoned him back 23 minutes after getting his voicemail, to answer him personally (he was shocked that I would actually call him personally...and then after our conversation he asked which of my products he should buy first, lol. I said none, learn from my free content instead; took the high road of course).

    I told him I agree with him, to check credentials and proof elements, that he's exactly right (and I believe this, strongly btw), that most of the people in my industry just sell how-to stuff without being able to do it themselves. Anyone else get that "hey if you're so good why sell what you know?" prospect objection? Seems par for the course for us info-marketers/educators. I just reply with the simple truth, which is best... any other replies/ideas?

    thx,
    k
    I don't agree with anyone calling anyone and being ugly but I agree with his point. Those who can, do; and those who can't teach... Always been that way and always will... Folks who can't get themselves out of a wet paper bag will tell you they have the secret to success for only a few bucks...I don't buy knowledge I pay people to do a job for me, and I sell the same thing, I charge people for a job I will do for them. I can't teach anyone what I've learned in 20 years in a bunch of fancy PDF files... Come on...

    The above doesn't apply to people teaching second graders how to read...There is a difference...We all know it...
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  • Profile picture of the author Leanne King
    What is often overlooked is when you teach two people learn. I'm always learning through questions that my students ask me. It keeps me challenged and makes me realise that there are so many ways that people think about things. Congrats on calling him back and helping him.
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  • Profile picture of the author Importexport
    Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

    Anyone else get that "hey if you're so good why sell what you know?" prospect objection? Seems par for the course for us info-marketers/educators. I just reply with the simple truth, which is best... any other replies/ideas?
    thx,
    k
    The cynicism exhibited by some who have made negative posts seems to fit the saying: "Evil thinks as evil does," because they cannot imagine someone can do something for enjoyment or out of idealism and not for pecuniary gain. They are suspicious of anyone who claims to do so because they could not bring themselves to act out of any motive other than gain.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cyber Star
    that voice-mail guy is such a douchebagery, he think that everyone who teach how to make money is actually a poor guy who scam people with lie. That is absolutely offensive and annoying, the OP is really a good guy to take the high road. I think this daily incident is why people like richjerk show off his wealth to everyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author aarthielumalai
    Oh well, I learned a long time ago that if a person seem irrationally angry with someone, most of the time the anger is not really because of that someone, but because of some personal problem of that person. So, he might very well have been angry about something else and you are the one he chose to show his anger on. Unfair I know, but that's just how some people are.

    To be fair though, there are a lot of coaches out there who don't really know if what they are teaching works or not. I mean, I once implemented something from a book I read and the only result I got was a banned twitter account. So, its understandable people are more cautious nowadays, but they shouldn't assume everyone is like that I guess.
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    • Profile picture of the author Importexport
      Originally Posted by aarthielumalai View Post

      Oh well, I learned a long time ago that if a person seem irrationally angry with someone, most of the time the anger is not really because of that someone, but because of some personal problem of that person. So, he might very well have been angry about something else and you are the one he chose to show his anger on. Unfair I know, but that's just how some people are.

      To be fair though, there are a lot of coaches out there who don't really know if what they are teaching works or not. I mean, I once implemented something from a book I read and the only result I got was a banned twitter account. So, its understandable people are more cautious nowadays, but they shouldn't assume everyone is like that I guess.
      I agree. I have received a couple of derogatory posts in different forums, both along the same line as the one the OP wrote about. One was so irrational and agressive, with comments about my motives and my website that it showed that if he had looked at my site at all he could not have read for more than 5 seconds.

      Regarding your second point, I see that quite often. For example, a free WSO I looked at dealing with my specialist field (importing), contained some seriously incorrect information and some advice that would be very risky to follow.
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

    Anyone else get that "hey if you're so good why sell what you know?"
    I think we've probably all heard this at some point...

    But for me, it rarely comes from my actual students. Like you it's usually someone that doesn't yet "know" me.

    As for my students, I show them the same things I do myself. So they see what I do and how I do it and they see the results... Therefore they know I can talk the talk and walk the walk.

    I agree with you that folks should try their best to do their due diligence before investing in education and tools. It's too easy to hang up your "marketer sign" and go into business and with the stigma our industry receives I can't blame folks for being suspicious.

    But I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "I just simply reply with the truth". I think this is definitely the best road to take.

    Cheers,
    Coby
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    • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
      Great thread, thanks for all the thoughtful comments... you're right on the money.

      Scalability is the main reason to teach via the internet. People can potentially earn much more per hour of work, by leveraging and selling (courses, dvds, webinars that share knowledge with a large audience), than if doing brick-and-mortar consulting and 1-on-1 teaching.

      Many times, people who can do, also teach... but I think proof elements (individual what you've done, to earn the position of being able to teach correctly, plus testimonials from students/customers), are important to help weed out the people who can't actually do what they teach, which in some niches is a big percentage. Or at least help customers decide who is best to learn from.

      I think teaching and training is the best profession, if you can combine it with what you have a passion and knowledge for, (or at least lessons learned from), and offer at a reasonable price with great service and authenticity. The internet's just a distribution channel, and what a grand one it is.

      There is indeed a lot of people who can't do, and even for that matter, can't teach (though they act like they can); like many of my competitors. There's some that can't do, and can teach ok. There's some of us who can do, at least up to a certain level, and like to teach. Proof elements, testimonials, all helps customers differentiate. Educating customers to ask for that, is helpful.

      Who was it, Greek philosopher who said, "to learn, teach", helps you improve whatever you're trying to do anyways, as a side benefit, by having to articulate, organize and present your thoughts. And doing your craft in isolation is never as fun as doing things publicly, with legacy/impact, to help many people; social responsibility as well as productive business.

      -k
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  • Profile picture of the author evilsaigon
    ken, you should have asked the irate guy, who should he be taught by if all teachers are not good :-* shows that he doesn't know how to filter out the real deal teachers.

    Even if you are not a master of what you do, doesn't mean you can't teach it well! (of cuz u got to be at least decently good at it)... on the other hand, if you are really good at what you do, teaching it is definitely a good source of secondary income.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sushiman1111
      Originally Posted by evilsaigon View Post

      ken, you should have asked the irate guy, who should he be taught by if all teachers are not good :-* shows that he doesn't know how to filter out the real deal teachers.
      A very good point.

      I don't agree that those who can't, teach. I learned a "difficult" foreign language and I teach English as a second language. I cured myself of tendon pain and now market in that niche. If I hadn't done it I wouldn't be nearly as in tune with my students'/customers' problems. Sure, there are some fakers out there...but the students tend to be able to spot them pretty easily, especially once they've been taught by the real thing.

      And Marcia's point about taking pleasure in seeing someone else succeed is right on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      "You should have ask him..."

      "You should have said...."

      "Teachers can't do anything else...."

      Wrong approaches. Comments designed to "make me look better than", "put someone in his place", or to put down a career you've seen only from the outside looking in.

      From an educator's site giving Chicago teaching salaries....

      median high school teacher earns $54k

      Instructor level at U of Chicago - $59k

      Full Professor - Ph.D. and tenured - $197k

      There's a reason some of the best labs are found on college campuses (and some of the best libraries, too) - to lure top people to come to that university and pursue their research while also teaching a certain number or hours each year.

      Add in excellent benefits, good job security, grants and access to government funded research projects....and take away the competitive nature and oversight of the corporate or business world. And then there is the chance to explain your field in your own way to students entering the business or scientific world.

      Point is - like every trade or business, there are "levels" in the field of education. That's true in IM, too, because it takes more than knowledge to teach. It takes patience, empathy and the ability to connect with others and encourage them to succeed.

      Not a bad gig.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        True story: The longtime postmistress of my small town in Massachusetts was about to retire. I asked her what she was going to do. "Go to Florida?"

        "Nah, that's boring," she replied. "Clean houses."

        I stared at her. To me, this did not compute.

        She got that I didn't get it and said, "I love cleaning!" with a big smile.

        She's still at it, five years later. And still smiling about it.

        It's hard for me to understand, but I am not going to call her a liar. She likes cleaning. And isn't it a good thing that there are some people in the world who like to do what we ourselves don't like to do?

        You hate to run. Some people love to run.

        You hate picking up trash alongside the road. Some people enjoy it.

        You hate learning languages. Some people thrive on it.

        Etc.

        Why is it so hard to believe that some people like to teach?

        Marcia Yudkin
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        • Profile picture of the author robestrong
          Ticks me off when people say "Those who do, do. Those who can't, teach."

          Does it happen? Yes. Is it obvious when it does? Yes.

          I know plenty of people who do a heck of a good job teaching something that they've done for years and spent 10s of thousands of hours perfecting. Seeing them to be able to scale other's success by working with a number of students is an amazing thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    The cynicism exhibited by some who have made negative posts seems to fit the saying: "Evil thinks as evil does," because they cannot imagine someone can do something for enjoyment or out of idealism and not for pecuniary gain. They are suspicious of anyone who claims to do so because they could not bring themselves to act out of any motive other than gain.
    I believe that which we sow... they same we shall reap. People who spend their time helping other people will find that out very soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author stefanvanray
    Lots of interesting feedback here, and being new to the forum it’s interesting to read all your responses and get some kind of an idea of where everyone is at. The human condition is so very intriguing. I will say, without getting to philosophical, that one of man’s biggest problems is always blaming everyone around them for their own failures. Truth be told, as someone else mentioned, this type of anger and frustration with people peddling PLR products comes from people’s inability to succeed in the market.
    Bottom line, we are all here to make money and the real money is in teaching and doing—as others have previously stated. All the information we teach is openly available to anyone with access to the internet, we are just providing the service of packaging it neatly for sale and combining our own successful experience with it so that don’t have to have quite as long of a learning curve as they might have had. They are paying for convenience and for our related experience. Sad fact of it is, most people don’t have the drive to go and look for the information themselves. No shame in making money for providing a service, especially when the product is good and the information applicable. We’ve all been there man, and honestly, you handled it very well.
    Here’s to your success,
    -Stefan
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    • Profile picture of the author Importexport
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      Before I address Ken's post below, I want to throw something out there.

      A few people have hauled out the old saw about "those who can, do; those who can't, teach." I really think you are misinterpreting that. I believe that the saying was originally meant to say that those physically capable of doing, did, and after one reached the age or physical state where doing full-time was no longer possible, one passed along one's knowledge to the next generation of doers, i.e. 'teaching'.
      .
      I am 74 years of age, with a lifetime experience in exporting and importing. A few years ago I had heart surgery that had bad after effects, so I had no option but to sell my successful importing and marketing business that I had run for 22 years, franchising it in four countries.

      Being a Type A personality, I would have gone crazy in retirement, so I wrote my book on importing, and I take pleasure in the success stories of people I have helped as a result.

      Originally Posted by stefanvanray View Post

      All the information we teach is openly available to anyone with access to the internet, we are just providing the service of packaging it neatly for sale and combining our own successful experience with it so that don't have to have quite as long of a learning curve as they might have had.
      -Stefan
      I have never found on the internet any mention of a freight scam of the kind I was stung with in 1978, my first year of operating my importing business. I know the scam still operates in many countries, so I teach how to avoid it. That is just one of the things that people are willing to pay for. Learning from the experience of others is like buying an extremely low cost insurance policy.
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      Use emotions and perceptions to build a great brand. Ask me about my book LabelsThatExploit. For safe sourcing and easy importing from 41 countries globally, see https://provenglobalsourcing.com
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