Been here 10 minutes and I am stoked.

53 replies
Let me start by saying I have already found answers in ten minutes on these forums that I couldn't find spending who knows how long on Google, so thanks!!!!


I am gonna try to cram a lot of information into this post, and still keep it short...wish me luck...and sorry in advance if I fail...LOL.

OK, my Dad started in MLM about 18 years ago....he recruited a guy who went on to become a millionaire before 26 years of age. However, before that my Dad dropped out...lol...yeah bad luck...no just stupid, cause he stayed in MLM just not that one.

Later the guy felt bad for my Dad and put him into a position where he made a modest income for a few years until he died. I got into the company, and after one too many typical hype statements from a "diamond" to a new recruit about selling their TV to buy product to qualify for commissions, which was ridiculous because this old lady didn't have anyone under her.....I decided it wasn't for me, and wanted nothing to do with MLM ever again!!!!

Well, for years I mean over 10 years I have been reading and studying online marketing with the idea to make a living online. I was in the process on creating an info product when i decided it would be better to make it into a Kit for a variety of reasons.

After several years of pretty decent success I had my product copied to the point where it was no loner worth while to sell.

So...what's happened is I am really into Wholistic Health and I do a lot of research in the area. I stumbled across a radio program and after listening for quite some time I decided to give it a try.

Well it is an MLM company. Now, regardless of what people say about it, it is a real business and you can make money at it. The problem is it attracts a lot of idiots, and because of the social nature what seems to get flung around is some of the most idiotic archaic methodologies.


I love when they say "don't reinvent the wheel" when their wheel is square...

Any way...I am hoping to use affiliate marketing methods to build a new MLM type business based on online marketing and honest marketing techniques.


So here's my question to you guys on these forums.....if MLM was approached from a different perspective not what I call "the used car salesman approach" is it reasonable to think there are a large number of people out there like me, who recognize it's a business that needs a certain approach and not the BS you usually get from "upline" people who don't actually have any marketing experience???


Also, do you agree it's the lie, lie and lie some more about the expectations of an MLM business that give it such a bad name!???

Thanks in advance!!!!
#minutes #stoked
  • Profile picture of the author BamaGuy
    Originally Posted by Clausenlt View Post


    Also, do you agree it's the lie, lie and lie some more about the expectations of an MLM business that give it such a bad name!???

    Thanks in advance!!!!


    I would say it's more the false hope that MLM presents to innocent victims that hope to make a decent living and try to make it a real business. In the end, they are offered no support if they are not a big producer and new members are then placed under those that have enough money to buy their way up higher in the levels. That's what mostly gives it a bad name. Not saying some of them aren't honest, but a large majority are not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Japles
    "JOIN NOW & WAKE UP TO 1 MILLION DOLLARS TOMORROW - GUARANTEED"!

    This is the road that several people promoting a MLM business go down.

    I may be exaggerating a bit...but you get the point.

    They will say ANYTHING to get someone to join their team and then guess what?

    They forget about them.

    MLM definitely needs a good approach. An HONEST approach.

    Never guarantee ANYTHING and always tell the truth.

    The more honest you are, the more successful you will be.

    A lot of people join an MLM business who have no experience and often become overwhelmed. If they have no one there to help them, can't get sales, don't know how to market and get traffic, of course they are going to look at it as a negative experience and quit shortly after.

    I believe the key to being successful with an MLM business is finding a good sponsor and really giving it all you got. You want a sponsor that will guide you through every step of the process and won't try to BS you and give you false hope. You also need to be committed and not let any bump in the road slow you down.

    The truth is many people lack the drive, desire, assistance, or knowledge to make it work and then bash it because of their poor results.

    Also... Welcome to the forum!
    Signature

    YOU are awesome :)

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    • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
      Originally Posted by Japles View Post

      "JOIN NOW & WAKE UP TO 1 MILLION DOLLARS TOMORROW - GUARANTEED"!
      I would love to wake up to this someday.... :rolleyes:

      Maybe it will happen tomorrow!
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      • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
        Originally Posted by rmolina88 View Post

        I would love to wake up to this someday.... :rolleyes:

        Maybe it will happen tomorrow!
        Yeah and if you are so stupid you believe that go away!!!! LOL...I always say if you think something is easy think about whether other people will do it?!!!Because if people won't do it it doesn't matter how easy it is. ...I have a box of razor blades in my truck...I could easily slice my wrists...but I am not gonna do it...even if MLM makes me want too....lol....the point is...it doesn't matter how easy someone else thinks something is if in the real world people will not...and do not do it!!!!! it doesn't work!!!!


        My point is this...MLM works...but the people in MLM do not have marketing that works!
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        • Profile picture of the author BamaGuy
          Originally Posted by Clausenlt View Post

          My point is this...MLM works...but the people in MLM do not have marketing that works!

          I wouldn't say this is true at all. MANY MLM's have been very successful in marketing. They promote a service, product, or something else in hoping thousands more will do the same. In the end, those that created it and a few right under them, walk away with a great deal of money. So, I would say they are actually very good at marketing!
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    an mlm is basically just an affiliate program with more than one tier.

    With an mlm, the idea is that YOU dont have to sell, you just have to recruit others that sell. Of course the problem with that theory when put in practice is that only those that SELL or are good/lucky enough to recruit someone who SELLS make money.

    Traditional affiliate programs require YOU to do the SELLING in order to get paid.

    BTW, both ways work and have proven to be very successful for many years.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
    ah man...awesome responses...thanks so much....OK let me start with the first one....Bama, I agree false hope and a lot of people who get into the business are not honest....I have found for the most part the company them selves are honest.

    Japles...what you said is exactly what i want to bring to MLM. An honest well researched marketing and business approach. BTW, I am gonna have to be the "good Sponsor"...because I know more about it than any of the people in my upline...except my "sponsor" listens to me. But he knows nothing about marketing. Any way, I want to be everything I wished "upline" had been when i didn't know anything...and bring that to people that I sign up. I appreciate the feedback.

    And David...that is exactly what I have said...its the same thing only one level...the problem with MLM is they say... write a list of the people you know...or put up flyers...etc...and they have no clue what they are talking about.

    The guy who has the radio show...and I love him he's awesome, but he knows nothing about marketing...well he promotes the same tired nonsense..."give out 10 of my CD's a week and you'll succeed"... and I say..."ok...hows that working for you doc?" ..."oh...that's not what you do"...as I scratch my head....lol


    Seriously...how do you promote a system you aren't using???????


    Thanks for the feedback...it really makes me think I'm on the right page!!!!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Devin X
    Banned
    I think that the MLM structure is fundamentally flawed, which is why they always seem to be about the "opportunity", rather than the products or services. That's a classic example of "putting the cart before the horse". To really succeed in MLM, you have to recruit others into your downline and duplicate them to do the same...which is just silly in my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
      Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

      I think that the MLM structure is fundamentally flawed, which is why they always seem to be about the "opportunity", rather than the products or services. That's a classic example of "putting the cart before the horse". To really succeed in MLM, you have to recruit others into your downline and duplicate them to do the same...which is just silly in my opinion.
      Agreed on a certain level...yes...you simply cannot promote a product you do not believe in...but do you not believe in the product because of the vehicle...??????

      I work in the automotive filed......these guys really do lie like crazy...I have intimate experiance and knowledge...all they care about is you buying a car!!!!!! Are you gonna stop buying cars????


      Lots of businesses recruit based on duplication...MLM just hasn't perfected it
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  • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
    The idea in MLM is not the a "few right under them walk away with a great deal of money"...that is exactly my point....the promo is everyone walks away with the silver platter....and a lot of the people who make money in it have no ideas what it actually takes for the average person to succeeded let alone teach them!!!!


    If you wanna get down to it I am defending MLM and always have...the only thing I ever said is it's not for me...and I decided to take one last try at it

    I have succeeded online...I CAN do it...
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  • Profile picture of the author mountainbear
    Hi Clausenlt,

    I urge you to read the book "The one minute Entrepreneur". I personally have't had much to do with MLM, other than once (the person who introduced me never really took care of me, and I ended up staying longer in it than her). It was an experience (neutral on the feeling). Like David Keith said, you should try MLM on the internet (multi tier affiliate) I'm not sure if it has been done before.

    All in all you have a pretty good spirit, keep me posted

    Regards

    Ram
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  • Profile picture of the author JensSteyaert
    Just remember that when you see stats of income people make from MLM it's always from people on top of the ladder, not from people that just joined.
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    • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
      Originally Posted by JensSteyaert View Post

      Just remember that when you see stats of income people make from MLM it's always from people on top of the ladder, not from people that just joined.
      Like I said in the beginning, I know all about it, the reason I quit MLM for what I thought was gonna be for good, was becasue of all the people acting like you'd be making boat loads of money in 2 weeks, when the reality is, the people who actually make money at it work it consistently usually for 2 years before they turn a profit.

      I am hoping it won't take that long for me with IM and my experience, but I have no stupid expectations.
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  • Profile picture of the author solomprince
    for me I dont think MLM is a crap,
    I worked in some offline companies
    and It was good

    The way they are promoting is what makes it like crap

    The Bottom Line :
    Do you think the product is useful for you?
    or you just gonna buy it to promote it?

    if your answered yes to the 1st question ===> go on and join
    if you answered no ==> dont even bother thinking about the opportunity
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    • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
      Originally Posted by solomprince View Post

      for me I dont think MLM is a crap,
      I worked in some offline companies
      and It was good

      The way they are promoting is what makes it like crap

      The Bottom Line :
      Do you think the product is useful for you?
      or you just gonna buy it to promote it?

      if your answered yes to the 1st question ===> go on and join
      if you answered no ==> dont even bother thinking about the opportunity
      I got a few products and tried them first before I decided to market them. I know better!!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author solomprince
        Originally Posted by Clausenlt View Post

        I got a few products and tried them first before I decided to market them. I know better!!!!
        I dont understand what you mean
        these products were bad or what?
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        • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
          Originally Posted by solomprince View Post

          I dont understand what you mean
          these products were bad or what?

          The reply was self explanatory....I decided to market them becasue they were/are great!
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Word of caution if your unaware, there are new rules by the FTC which affected MLM recently, I can't find the post with the link but it is worth researching there rules for sure!

    Edit: http://www.ftc.gov/os/2013/03/130312...isclosures.pdf

    This is what I am referring to.
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    • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
      Originally Posted by butters View Post

      Word of caution if your unaware, there are new rules by the FTC which affected MLM recently, I can't find the post with the link but it is worth researching there rules for sure!

      Edit: http://www.ftc.gov/os/2013/03/130312...isclosures.pdf

      This is what I am referring to.

      Hey thanks for this....I'm looking it over....deceptive claims is exactly what I plan to avoid like the plague.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gorilla
      Thanks for this.
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  • Profile picture of the author verial
    Rules for success at MLM (choose one):

    1. Don't join an MLM company.
    2. Get in early and get out early.
    3. Create your own MLM so you're at the top.

    There are no other ways.
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    • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
      Originally Posted by verial View Post

      Rules for success at MLM (choose one):

      1. Don't join an MLM company.
      2. Get in early and get out early.
      3. Create your own MLM so you're at the top.

      There are no other ways.

      LOL...I like the create your own MLM....
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      • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
        Well, I work in MLM for 18 years, had bad and good times and I can say this is a real business and yes you can earn really good money with it. But the secret is: reinvent the wheel...
        I been failing until I changed my approach. The problem of MLM is that every one just concentrating on what he can earn and earn fast, but this is the fastest way to the failure.
        The only way you can actually create residual income here is to make those in your downline earn good money.
        How?
        1. Teach them, so that they would not make same mistakes I did, so that they would not waste time to build a failure in stead of success.
        2. Work with them/work for them. I think it is fare to invest your time and effort in to the people who you are earning from. The only way to make sure someone is not dropping out of the business is to make sure they earn more than they spend to be in business. At this stage you can leave them alone as due to MLM nature their income will grow nice and steady and concentrate on the next person under him. Well, this may sound like a lot of work and yes this is a lot of work at the beginning, but later when you trained some people all ready they will do the same for those they invited, so you do not have to do all the job.
        3. There is a fact: MLM is not for every one. Well any one can earn in MLM, but not every one will. Some people will stay against MLM for ever, so there is no point to waist your time on trying to change their mind, just go and spend your time on those who are willing to accept your help and only come back to these people when you can prove you earn at least $20 000 every month.
        Signature

        Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
        Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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        • Profile picture of the author kevin jackson
          I'll keep it very very simple. Mlm works and is a great business model for cheap that anyone can start and succeed at just like any other business. Some will love it forever and some will hate it forever so the debates will never end but so what. You can say the same about Facebook. Some hate it some love it.

          But let's just keep it real simple without all the long winded philosophies, theories and debates. The mlms that are product focused with a sellable and retailable product that has a high quality ownership and management team will last and prosper for decades.

          Let me repeat that for emphasis.

          The mlms that are product focused with a sellable and retailable product that has a high quality ownership and management team will last and prosper for decades.

          If the primary focus is on recruiting then that particular mlm will have problems lasting for an extended length of time. A few will succeed at it for a short while because they are salesmen or marketers. But once the hype and excitement peters out or their group starts to shrink they can very easily just go to another company and start all over again and even bring lots of their old group with them.

          They can repeat that cycle over and over again for years and can make millions doing it. It does work it just won't work for most of his group.

          On the other hand with a show of hands how many of us on this very forum know someone personally who has been selling avon or Mary Kay successfully for years if not decades? What about Primerica? Amway? Quikstar? Watson's? Herbalife? Passion Parties?

          Many of these companies have gone public and have been traded on stock exchanges for years with a loyal retail customer base that have no intentions of becoming recruits and selling the product themselves or recruiting others.

          So yeah mlm works just fine if you work it right. It's filled with tons of crap and scams but so are most other cheap home based businesses like mail order, tv infomercials, real estate, internet marketing and other free or inexpensive home based businesses.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            You lost me at "MLM" but if that's your thing then enjoy.

            After success with affiliate marketing, there is no desire for MLM.

            Why would I pay to be part of a program and wait 2 years to see some success (as mentioned above)?
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            • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
              Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

              You lost me at "MLM" but if that's your thing then enjoy.

              After success with affiliate marketing, there is no desire for MLM.

              Why would I pay to be part of a program and wait 2 years to see some success (as mentioned above)?
              The thing you are missing here, that MLM is very similar to affiliate marketing, but as affiliate you work by yourself, but in MLM you work as a team and your income grows much faster, because all team is working and every one gets % of it. You same sell products as an affiliate and get commissions but also you get commissions on every sale in your team.
              Also if you get to the right team they will take care of you and they will help you through every step. If something does not goes right they will be there for you to fix it. If they find something that works, you will have it. If they tried something that doest, you will know as well.
              After trying MLM once 18 years ago I never stopped loving it. This is the way to earn good money by helping other people. In my team only lazy can't earn, honestly, because me and my upline team supply everything that they will ever need.
              Good luck with what you do, but I will not swap MLM for any thing...
              Signature

              Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
              Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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              • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
                Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

                The thing you are missing here, that MLM is very similar to affiliate marketing, but as affiliate you work by yourself, but in MLM you work as a team and your income grows much faster, because all team is working and every one gets % of it. You same sell products as an affiliate and get commissions but also you get commissions on every sale in your team.
                Okay, I get that you think it's cool that everyone gets a slice of the pie, but making a virtue out of that seems a little backward. Why would anyone rather have a slice of pie than the whole thing?

                Actually, I know why: a ton of the people in MLMs are there mostly for the socializing, and would rather have 1/8th of a pie than a whole one, if it meant being able to share it with 7 new buddies at a weekly training meeting. For the same reason, I suppose many don't mind being the main customers buying the overpriced products which pays the rent for the people several levels above them.

                But as a business model, assuming you don't really need or want the extra socializing, everyone getting a share of the profits on every sale, isn't an improvement over one person making one sale on their own, and not having to share the profits with multiple levels of a sales team. I doubt you can find any business leader outside MLM that says what business needs is more middle-people to take a piece of every retail transaction. Just my 2 cents; I am glad you're happy.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jack Bastide
            I always laugh when the Subject of MLM comes up on this
            Forum and people trash it as hypey or scammy ...

            and then you look at their sig file and they are promising that
            you will make $36,3673.35 with 3 clicks of your mouse selling
            Kindle books

            I have been Making a Full time Income from MLM for 8 years

            It's like anything else ...

            MLM works ... if you do

            one of the MAIN differences between MLM and Internet marketing
            is the Support

            When I "make a sale" in MLM they join my team. As a team member
            they get unlimited support and training for the life of their business.

            I get on the phone with them , I meet them in person, etc.

            Try getting THAT from a $27 Ebook .. or even a $997 Product

            MLM and IM are both good ,, just different business models

            Jack
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            If you can drive Biz Op Phone Calls .... I'm Buying

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    • Profile picture of the author Jack Bastide
      Well let's see

      1 - I DID join an MLM Company
      2 - I DIDN'T get out
      3 - I DIDN'T create my Own MLM Company

      so I failed at all 3 of the Success Rules yet I have been
      making a Full time income frim home for over 8 years

      So here are MY Success Rules

      1 - DO Join a Good MLM
      2 - DO Get to work
      3 - See # 2


      Originally Posted by verial View Post

      Rules for success at MLM (choose one):

      1. Don't join an MLM company.
      2. Get in early and get out early.
      3. Create your own MLM so you're at the top.

      There are no other ways.
      Signature

      If you can drive Biz Op Phone Calls .... I'm Buying

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  • Profile picture of the author KuhNoodle
    Did you let that little old lady sell her tv? For shame!!!
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    Make $5.00 A Day With A Blog <-- Click Here

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  • Profile picture of the author JasonBennet
    I personally feel that MLM is a real business as there are many successful MLM companies. The main key thing is that the company must have a real product that is useful and the core concentration should not be totally about recruitment.

    The real problem is not the business model, the real problem comes from the person who is running the business. There are many scams too in the Home Business opportunity market too but there are many other honest marketers around too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
    (The last 2 posts when i started writing this...lol)

    Those last 2 post read almost like I wrote them myself. First of all...I wasn't gonna go into a lot of detail about what I was trying to do until I saw how the MLM idea was received here. If everyone hated and didn't want to hear about it I would keep it to myself.

    First of all let me say Kevin you are right on the money. I wouldn't get involved with a company whose products I didn't like and believe in and that wasn't at least 10 years old. I know a LOT about MLM.

    So this is what i hope to do, and I am open to criticism and suggestions. I wouldn't call it reinventing the wheel unless you apply to strictly to what actually seems to me the norm in MLM...but first off I agree you have to create successful people under you. I am hoping to creat a kind of website and marketring template and work with the first several levels with the people who want to work this way.

    I am thinking of using one primary website with lots of product information and articles and use that site to have my "partners" write artcles with their "list Building" information and then also help them create their own marketing websites, and teach them how to teach their people.

    It's kinda been a work in progress but I have a website up with about 7 pages that I haven't even been marketing yet, plus I just bought another domain to use just for marketing.

    What i hope to do next is create a series of marketing articles or maybe a short ebook to give away for free to build an email list...


    I hope to do this through Forums Facebook and Youtube etc....

    I don't expect to get righ over night but I did pretty well with my product I mentioned in my first post and I am confident I can do similar with this.

    I am confident primarily not only did my product sell really well, I constantly improved it based on feedback from customers and lots of honest self evaluation. I know I can do it again but bigger and better this time if I just don't give up and I am willing to learn from what doesn't work and change and improve...and improve what does work!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
    And lets not forget about the residual income you can create...BTW, the guy I know who became a multimillionaire in MLM is still a millionaire and working in MLM and he's been in for something like 14 years....
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
    The name "multi-level marketing" which MLM stands for, actually gives us a clue about the biggest problem inherent in the model: too many middle-people to divide profits amongst.

    So you either have to price the product very high in order for all the levels to get paid, or give the levels a pittance. Which is why Amway was selling bars of soap back in the 70s, for $5 a bar, when you could buy a similar bar of soap in stores for 1/10 the price or less.

    The public doesn't enjoy overpaying, so most of the customers are distributors at the bottom levels, who buy because they hope to get rich selling, and are true believers (until they get tired of buying fancy cars for people at the upper levels, by paying through the nose for the product, and so most of them eventually drop out).

    It is always going to be an uphill battle with this type of structure. There are people that are good at it and make a lot of money, but what they are good at isn't enviable. They specialize in keeping the dream alive as long as possible, to keep the newbs buying the products and funding their organizations, knowing all along that most will simply waste a lot of money for a while, and then drop out; in other words, they make out well because they are adept at selling false hope.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

      The name "multi-level marketing" which MLM stands for, actually gives us a clue about the biggest problem inherent in the model: too many middle-people to divide profits amongst.

      So you either have to price the product very high in order for all the levels to get paid, or give the levels a pittance. Which is why Amway was selling bars of soap back in the 70s, for $5 a bar, when you could buy a similar bar of soap in stores for 1/10 the price or less.

      The public doesn't enjoy overpaying, so most of the customers are distributors at the bottom levels, who buy because they hope to get rich selling, and are true believers (until they get tired of buying fancy cars for people at the upper levels, by paying through the nose for the product, and so most of them eventually drop out).

      It is always going to be an uphill battle with this type of structure. There are people that are good at it and make a lot of money, but what they are good at isn't enviable. They specialize in keeping the dream alive as long as possible, to keep the newbs buying the products and funding their organizations, knowing all along that most will simply waste a lot of money for a while, and then drop out; in other words, they make out well because they are adept at selling false hope.
      I am not really an mlm advocate, but i am not sure your assessment is totally correct.

      The idea with mlm is that people sell to other people they know for the most part. That is about the cheapest and most successful type of marketing available to any business selling almost anything.

      In traditional business we call it word of mouth marketing and it is often incentivized with coupons, discounts, or rewards of some kind for the promoter and sometimes the new customer.

      Basically mlm is designed to replace what is often times the highest cost involved in a business..marketing...attracting new customers.

      I dont care what you are selling, to sell much of it, you are almost certainly going to have to pay someone to help you...somehow...someway.

      It may be via an affiliate program, an mlm, a wholesaler (given a super cheap wholesale price), or directly advertising using many types of media. At any rate, there is virtually no way to avoid the costs of marketing and customer acquisition.

      Its just that different business models decide to pay different people for being "in the loop". When you buy something from walmart that comes from china, i dare say there are at least as many people involved in bringing that product to the shelve as in most mlm's. So essentially, the price must include some markup to feed all those mouths.
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

        I am not really an mlm advocate, but i am not sure your assessment is totally correct.

        The idea with mlm is that people sell to other people they know for the most part. That is about the cheapest and most successful type of marketing available to any business selling almost anything.

        In traditional business we call it word of mouth marketing and it is often incentivized with coupons, discounts, or rewards of some kind for the promoter and sometimes the new customer.

        Basically mlm is designed to replace what is often times the highest cost involved in a business..marketing...attracting new customers.

        I dont care what you are selling, to sell much of it, you are almost certainly going to have to pay someone to help you...somehow...someway.

        It may be via an affiliate program, an mlm, a wholesaler (given a super cheap wholesale price), or directly advertising using many types of media. At any rate, there is virtually no way to avoid the costs of marketing and customer acquisition.

        Its just that different business models decide to pay different people for being "in the loop". When you buy something from walmart that comes from china, i dare say there are at least as many people involved in bringing that product to the shelve as in most mlm's. So essentially, the price must include some markup to feed all those mouths.
        Your points are very well stated. I could be wrong, but I have been in a few MLMs in the past, and the people who were making decent money weren't doing it by selling to their friends and family, so while, in theory, it is an efficient distribution system to have ordinary people selling to those they know, in practice, most people we know don't want us making sales presentations to them, and don't want to buy overpriced products. In practice, the main market seems to be distributors.

        The companies like to say that they have a superior model because instead of paying for traditional marketing, they prefer to put that money into a generous distributor payout structure. The problem is, if you want success as a distributor, you still have to do marketing like any other retailer. So the companies save on advertizing by passing much of those costs on to the distributor network. I believe part of the reason they need such heavy recruitment all the time, is that most people spend more on marketing and products than they ever make, and eventually burn out.

        As for Walmart and China, I think you are talking more about distribution than marketing; I doubt that a lot of marketing goes on on the high seas or between factories and ports, or ports and warehouses. I am sure many MLMs have similar layers of middle-people in their distribution chains, but then they add in a bunch more on the marketing side.

        Personally, I would much rather buy an overpriced product from an MLM that has their own factory in the USA than buy from China or Walmart (Although with manufactured goods it's virtually impossible to boycott China these days).

        It's a whole separate issue, but the savings you get with Walmart and China are being paid for by the destruction of human beings and the environment, as well as the systematic disintegration of independent small business in the US.
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    • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
      Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

      The name "multi-level marketing" which MLM stands for, actually gives us a clue about the biggest problem inherent in the model: too many middle-people to divide profits amongst.

      So you either have to price the product very high in order for all the levels to get paid, or give the levels a pittance. Which is why Amway was selling bars of soap back in the 70s, for $5 a bar, when you could buy a similar bar of soap in stores for 1/10 the price or less.

      The public doesn't enjoy overpaying, so most of the customers are distributors at the bottom levels, who buy because they hope to get rich selling, and are true believers (until they get tired of buying fancy cars for people at the upper levels, by paying through the nose for the product, and so most of them eventually drop out).

      It is always going to be an uphill battle with this type of structure. There are people that are good at it and make a lot of money, but what they are good at isn't enviable. They specialize in keeping the dream alive as long as possible, to keep the newbs buying the products and funding their organizations, knowing all along that most will simply waste a lot of money for a while, and then drop out; in other words, they make out well because they are adept at selling false hope.
      You are talking about something you have no clue about. I am in MLM for 18 years and everything you told is not true. This opinion created losers who was too lazy to work, they thought they will join and money will start flouting in to their pockets. However you should work in MLM like in any other business. A bit easier that IM. I never saw someone who would actually work and did not got good money. MLM is the most generous system in the world where every one receives what he deserves no matter where he is located in the system. I have people in my team who earn more that me. I earn more than some people in my upline. Our product is HD and very good quality, however the price is lowest on the market. You can not buy any thing similar. There is only one competitor on the market. Our price is $220 and their $750 for the same products.
      I just wonder when people will stop talking nonsense and at least learn a bit how this great system works?
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      Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
    Greg...I will give you that MLM products are almost always over priced, or at least seem so...but on closer examination your argument falls flat if you actually make an honest evaluation.

    There are elements of what you said that are true...but all businesses spend a large amount of their profits on marketing. Large companies which offer affiliate marketing not only have a huge budget for advertising, but also pay commissions to affiliates and who knows who else!

    Most MLM companies pay nothing for any advertising!

    The idea that these companies rely on distributors who can "keep the dream alive to newbies" is not a very good argument considering the inherent turn over with that model.

    So the company if it hopes to stay in business longer than 2-3 years has to have value in there product!

    Bottom line is this.....not all businesses are for each person...I've been looking at affiliate marketing for 12 years...although I always thought it was a good business I NEVER even tried it. Certain things about it just weren't for me!
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  • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
    J. Paul Getty Oil Tycoon...."I'd rather have 1% of 100 people's effort than 100% of my own." I guess Greg knows more than J.Paul Getty though!
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by Clausenlt View Post

      J. Paul Getty Oil Tycoon...."I'd rather have 1% of 100 people's effort than 100% of my own." I guess Greg knows more than J.Paul Getty though!
      No need for the sarcasm. Obviously I don't know better than J Paul Getty; I am merely voicing my opinion like everyone else. But his quote doesn't really contradict anything I have said, and I agree with it. Who wouldn't rather take profits from other people's work than have to do it all themselves?

      But was that quote advocating many layers of sales people between a product and the retail buyer? It seems unlikely to me.

      We can only guess what he might have said if someone had asked "would you rather have a sales meeting every week to train 100 people from scratch, and divide the commissions 100 ways on whatever sales that entire group made, or make one sale yourself, and keep the money?"
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      • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
        Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

        No need for the sarcasm. Obviously I don't know better than J Paul Getty; I am merely voicing my opinion like everyone else. But his quote doesn't really contradict anything I have said, and I agree with it. Who wouldn't rather take profits from other people's work than have to do it all themselves?

        But was that quote advocating many layers of sales people between a product and the retail buyer? It seems unlikely to me.

        We can only guess what he might have said if someone had asked "would you rather have a sales meeting every week to train 100 people from scratch, and divide the commissions 100 ways on whatever sales that entire group made, or make one sale yourself, and keep the money?"
        In stead of spending huge amounts of money on advertising, middleman and employees wages MLM companies spend that money to pay those who join MLM, what is wrong with that. You still getting the same money from sale + extra that what they saved, because they did not had all that costs. Nothing is divided, you get 100% for your sale and those grout commissions are paid as a bonus, from saved funds.
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        Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
        Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

          In stead of spending huge amounts of money on advertising, middleman and employees wages MLM companies spend that money to pay those who join MLM, what is wrong with that. You still getting the same money from sale + extra that what they saved, because they did not had all that costs. Nothing is divided, you get 100% for your sale and those grout commissions are paid as a bonus, from saved funds.
          I get what you're saying, but there is no way to know their savings, so it sounds to me like nothing more than a company line they like to tell everyone.

          In practice though, there is a division; of revenues to budget. And the prices I know about from MLMs are pretty high, so it makes sense to me that they are high at least in part, to pay bonuses to all of those levels. I'm not talking about retail either; I mean distributor costs, which is the real price anyway.

          But hey, if you love MLM, I'm happy for you. There are a lot of true believers that seem happy with it, but those at the bottom usually get a raw deal imo, because it is them buying a lot of expensive products they wouldn't ordinarily buy which keeps the whole thing going, and creates the real budget for all those bonuses.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    To some degree you are right about the distribution costs not really being marketing costs.

    However, there is a lot of money that goes into inventory management, stocking, even checkout and cart retrieval guys that all must be paid out of each product sale at a traditional retailer.

    A small time mlm'er avoids many of those additional costs. The small bit of inventory they do keep (if any) is usually in a spare closet and costs only a small amount of time, but no money really. So there are places mlm's save money as far as the how many people must "eat" off of the product sale.

    AT walmart they simply call your "upline" your manager....lol

    however big businesses do have economics of scale advantages.

    I guess my point really is that mlm'ers do replace many of the costs of traditional businesses and thus its not nearly as simple as saying multiple people are getting a piece of the pie so they can't be competitive.

    even walmart has huge numbers of layers of management that all must eat off of every product sale. When you really get right down to it, whats the difference in taking a small percentage of each sale to pay a 2nd or 3rd tier vs paying a district and regional manager? Pretty much the same thing really.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      To some degree you are right about the distribution costs not really being marketing costs.

      However, there is a lot of money that goes into inventory management, stocking, even checkout and cart retrieval guys that all must be paid out of each product sale at a traditional retailer.

      A small time mlm'er avoids many of those additional costs. The small bit of inventory they do keep (if any) is usually in a spare closet and costs only a small amount of time, but no money really. So there are places mlm's save money as far as the how many people must "eat" off of the product sale.

      AT walmart they simply call your "upline" your manager....lol

      however big businesses do have economics of scale advantages.

      I guess my point really is that mlm'ers do replace many of the costs of traditional businesses and thus its not nearly as simple as saying multiple people are getting a piece of the pie so they can't be competitive.

      even walmart has huge numbers of layers of management that all must eat off of every product sale. When you really get right down to it, whats the difference in taking a small percentage of each sale to pay a 2nd or 3rd tier vs paying a district and regional manager? Pretty much the same thing really.
      That seems a fair point, but I'm not a big fan of either model. Fortunately there are independent businesses I like to do business with. If forced to choose I would pick an MLM that doesn't buy from human rights abusers over Walmart.

      But in practice, just from the MLMs whose products I have bought, almost nobody paid retail.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    another big thing to consider about the mlm concept is this.

    Traditional businesses usually have many salary and hourly employees. These people get paid no matter how many sales are made that day/week/month. Obviously owners will adjust to demands, but my point is that the business owner takes on huge risks this way.

    In most mlm's no one gets paid unless sales are made. That cuts fixed overhead tremendously for a business.

    I guess mlm get a bad rap largely due to the number of people who join it and fail.

    Although experience tells me that is more due to the low barrier of entry than the business concept. I would bet a good bit that the failure numbers are higher in affiliate marketing. why...$0 barrier of entry.

    Basically the mlm concepts attracts mostly the bottom of the barrel entrepreneurs. so what do folks really expect? Of course most of them fail... Most entrepreneurs fail at most ventures. MLM is no different in that regard at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      another big thing to consider about the mlm concept is this.

      Traditional businesses usually have many salary and hourly employees. These people get paid no matter how many sales are made that day/week/month. Obviously owners will adjust to demands, but my point is that the business owner takes on huge risks this way.

      In most mlm's no one gets paid unless sales are made. That cuts fixed overhead tremendously for a business.

      I guess mlm get a bad rap largely due to the number of people who join it and fail.

      Although experience tells me that is more due to the low barrier of entry than the business concept. I would bet a good bit that the failure numbers are higher in affiliate marketing. why...$0 barrier of entry.

      Basically the mlm concepts attracts mostly the bottom of the barrel entrepreneurs. so what do folks really expect? Of course most of them fail... Most entrepreneurs fail at most ventures. MLM is no different in that regard at all.
      I agree that the low barrier to entry is a big reason for the high rate of failure, but personally, I am not critical of them for the rate of failure; I am sure some support distributors better than others, but I think whether someone works their business is their own responsibility.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
    OK...I am gonna say mostly my question was not answered...and in my first post I stated "if MLM was approached from a different perspective.." so any opinion which did not qualify itself with that requirement is disqualified...LOL.....you know as marketers you should be able to disengage your emotions for the purpose of debate...but if you can't do that...well you disqualify yourself from an honest opinion!
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  • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
    Yeah...I'm new here...but I'm not a "newbie"
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  • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
    Never was too fond of MLM either. But now it's my number one income stream for the last 8 months.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charanjit
    MLM does work, it all comes down to the product/service, when I was 16 I was selling a health product which did give back modest health returns, people will share and sell things they believe in.

    draw back - people soon found that the product was just an over priced, liquid form of vitamin tablets, £30.00 a bottle that lasts 30 days or £3.00 tablets that last 30 days.

    So yes I agree MLM works but their might be easier ways of making an income.
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  • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
    Originally Posted by fpdeziner View Post

    In MLM companies big and small, those cute pictures with all these downlines and legs you think you are going to make a fortune with, half or more disappear every year, so basically the business model doesn't work out. Even in this 50 percent figure, we don't know how many months the distributors were even active. So you can't sit back and take it easy, you have to constantly get more people all the time.
    I don't think I am going to make fortune with MLM I am actually making it through the last 18 years. Also those will disappear if you do not work with them directly and have no idea how they are doing. However because I personally train everyone who I invite in to the business and those invited by them and teach them to do the same, I do not have that many drop outs. Also even if someone placed very deep in the downline and needs help I will work with them as well to make sure they will get at least $1000 every month. So, why someone would even think of leaving the business if they are earning money and know how to earn more? Yes I have few drop offs from time to time, but this is happening in any business. Some people joining and think money will start flowing in to their pockets without putting any effort in to it... Well, yes they would fail. However if someone joining MLM, learning from me and other upline members they have all the chances to earn more than any of us do.
    For me it is most important which team to join and not how big are the commissions, because with a good team any one will succeed. However if this connection lost between experienced marketers and newbies, then yes most of the newbies will fail and drop off fast.
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    Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
    Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    I don't care if MLM works or not. 99% of them are pyramid schemes.

    Any good salesman can see right through the pitches.

    "You just join here, then you pay for all these products, then you make your own website and sell them, then we go driving in your new corvette together".

    Then a person with half a brain responds something like.. "I don't get it".

    And the person comes back with some garbage like, "You see, the secret is right here in this proprietary magical blend, developed by this brand you've never f##king heard of but I pinky swear that they're the most successful in the world".

    Give me a break.


    When you have a business model that is profitable on its own, a real business, the last thing you want to do is sell the model for a few hundred bucks to other dipshits who sell the model to other dipshits who then sell the model to more dipshits. Its never made sense to me and never will. A profitable business model is something that people approach YOU to buy. You don't go around hunting down idiots with no business experience to buy it from you.. just so they can sell it to more people with no business experience. I think I just had a brain anneurism typing that.

    Like I said, I'm sure it "works" for 1% of the people who do it, but I can think of a million and one ideas that would work a lot better. I'd much rather sell something on ebay. There is just no reason to force endless levels of people to buy/sell your model unless it sucks that badly and no investors give a shit about it in the first place.

    -Red
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