Living abroad in a low-cost country

186 replies
Hi all,

I'm an American and I'm considering moving abroad to a low-cost country to reduce my expenses while I create and market my first information product. I want to devote my full-time energy to this project (i.e. not hold a regular job), but I don't think it's financially feasible for me to do it while living in the United States with an oppressively large amount of student debt hanging over my head. I'm hoping that moving to a low-cost country will allow me to make ends meet for a while, until the money starts coming in.

I was wondering if any Americans here had experience with living in a low-cost country while working on internet marketing. What countries are good for this? Are immigration/residency requirements a major hassle, if you're just doing your own thing online rather than "working"?

Also, I find US income tax law to be extremely confusing when it comes to expatriates and online income. Do you need to pay income taxes (to either country) on your online income if you're an American living abroad?

Thanks for your help. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.
#abroad #country #living #lowcost
  • Profile picture of the author twister85
    come to India. The cheapest country as of my thinking. You can live an average life with a monthly expense of just $500 or less.

    You will be an alien for some years so you could be charged some staying fee or something I don't know but you will find it awesome to live in India and fulfill your IM dreams cheaply.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brent Schmidt
      Originally Posted by twister85 View Post

      come to India. The cheapest country as of my thinking. You can live an average life with a monthly expense of just $500 or less.

      You will be an alien for some years so you could be charged some staying fee or something I don't know but you will find it awesome to live in India and fulfill your IM dreams cheaply.
      And end up paying almost 35% in income taxes?
      That's if you're an Indian already ,would be much higher for immigrants I'm sure.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Brent Schmidt View Post

        And end up paying almost 35% in income taxes?
        That's if you're an Indian already ,would be much higher for immigrants I'm sure.
        That's why most successful foreigners don't relocate to India. Most high income earners I met either settle down in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, and Hong Kong, but not really India, Philippines or Thailand. These are the best countries for business and personal growth, along with immense tax benefits.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lateef Olajide
          Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

          That's why most successful foreigners don't relocate to India. Most high income earners I met either settle down in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, and Hong Kong, but not really India, Philippines or Thailand. These are the best countries for business and personal growth, along with immense tax benefits.
          I love SINGAPORE. It is a fine city. I may end up relocating there.
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          • Originally Posted by Lateef Olajide View Post

            I love SINGAPORE. It is a fine city. I may end up relocating there.
            Really? I personally found it boring and soulless. Hong Kong in the other hand... Wow what a city!
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          • Profile picture of the author zeroaffiliate
            Originally Posted by Lateef Olajide View Post

            I love SINGAPORE. It is a fine city. I may end up relocating there.
            I am from Singapore and i have to say that for IM, Singapore's great! Internet is readily available and infrastucture for running a business is awesome. It's safe and there is good lifestyle entertainment around. If you're bored, you could always take a boat or a short flight to the nearby countries for a short getaway.

            But having said that standard cost of living is on the high side comparing it's nearby countries.
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        • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
          Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

          That's why most successful foreigners don't relocate to India. Most high income earners I met either settle down in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, and Hong Kong, but not really India, Philippines or Thailand. These are the best countries for business and personal growth, along with immense tax benefits.
          Hong Kong has the highest property prices in the world right now and Singapore the most expensive place to own a car. It is near impossible to find a 1000 ft apartment costing less than 1M in Hong Kong. You better be already well off before you think of moving to Hong Kong or Singapore. Or else you may end up with a massive deterioration of your lifestyle.
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      • Profile picture of the author JensSteyaert
        Originally Posted by Brent Schmidt View Post

        And end up paying almost 35% in income taxes?
        That's if you're an Indian already ,would be much higher for immigrants I'm sure.
        Do you consider that much 35%? Where i live it's 50% atleast when you have an average income.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jimerson Farveez
      Originally Posted by twister85 View Post

      come to India. The cheapest country as of my thinking. You can live an average life with a monthly expense of just $500 or less.

      You will be an alien for some years so you could be charged some staying fee or something I don't know but you will find it awesome to live in India and fulfill your IM dreams cheaply.
      Compare to India, you can move to Srilanka, because there you can even half your expenses than India, and If you are doing business in Sri Lanka and if you have all foreign transactions, you are fallen under TAX-FREE category, no need to pay any taxes, anyhow, you may need to submit your accounts,
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  • Profile picture of the author OrangeBull
    Okay,

    1) Yes, moving to an living and working in another country INVOLVES HUGE legal issues. They vary by country. In some countries obtaining permission to become self-employed is easier than others. My own research suggests Belize has fairly favorable rules.

    2) Obtaining a bank account in foreign countries has become MUCH HARDER for Americans. A recent tax reform has put a big burden on foreign banks dealing with American clients. The IRS requires them to disclose such accounts to the IRS. In some countries they have stopped dealing with Americans altogether because to do so would violate their banking secrecy laws. The IRS requires Americans to file special disclosures about foreign controlled bank accounts and "Controlled Foreign Corporations." There are special rules for how such entities are taxed by the US government, IN ADDITION to any local tax issues in the jurisdiction wherein the company is located. WHY THIS RULE MATTERS TO FOREIGN BANKS: because any wire transfer from US banks to their bank will suffer a 30% withholding penalty at the US bank that will be redirected to the IRS to pay taxes in the event the bank hasn't entered into a voluntary disclosure agreement with the IRS.

    3) As a US citizen you are taxed on your worldwide income. There are bilateral tax agreements with many countries and their are some limitations on taxing of foreign earned income written into the IRC, but you would want to talk with an account and tax attorney who have dealt with many clients living and working and operating a business abroad before you even think about setting up a plan, not to mention talking with an immigration attorney in the country where you want to go to work before you spend too much money investigating the possibilities you should do as much research as you can into each nations immigration and work rules online. Many nations post their laws online, and Belize has the advantage of posting them in English as a former British colony where the people speak English.

    I only mention Belize because I had similar ideas and did a lot of research. At the end of my research I determined that it would be easier to build a successful business here and ultimately MOVE to a cheaper country later because the issues surrounding it are so damned complicated.

    Just to give you a better understanding of how large the pain in the buttocks is, I'm a lawyer and it scared the heck out of me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
    Banned
    Hi,

    I've established several successful businesses while living in the tropics. I'm originally from Austria, but due to enormous tax benefits I decided to relocate to SE Asia. It was the best decision I ever made.

    I've been to Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. If you have questions, just ask.

    Gerald
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    • Profile picture of the author selma
      Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

      Hi,

      I've established several successful businesses while living in the tropics. I'm originally from Austria, but due to enormous tax benefits I decided to relocate to SE Asia. It was the best decision I ever made.

      I've been to Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. If you have questions, just ask.

      Gerald
      So jealous right now
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    • Profile picture of the author Sherrill R
      Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

      Hi,

      I've established several successful businesses while living in the tropics. I'm originally from Austria, but due to enormous tax benefits I decided to relocate to SE Asia. It was the best decision I ever made.

      I've been to Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. If you have questions, just ask.

      Gerald
      How is Philippines?
      I heard that Filipinos speak English fluently like a native speaker.
      Why don't you recommend Philippines
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      • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Sherrill R View Post

        How is Philippines?
        I heard that Filipinos speak English fluently like a native speaker.
        Why don't you recommend Philippines
        As any country, Philippines has its ups and downs in terms of the quality of life that you can get there.

        I've lived in Mactan Island - Cebu City, and here is what I experienced for about 6 months ago..

        Pros:
        +Extremely cheap transportation, especially the trikes and taxis. There is no chance that you would be able to ge such prices in the States or European countries.
        What can I say about comfort of trikes and jeepneys? It brings you from point A to point C, but that's pretty much it!

        +Many backpackers and expats, also some marketers and poker players who make their living online.

        +It's the paradise for a single male. Filipinas love westerners and would die to be seen with one! If you are male and single but can't get a girlfriend in the Philippines, something is wrong with you.

        +Reasonable for folks who like to go out to eat. You can get a meal for $1 to $5 and are probably quite full.

        +Gorgeous - virgin beaches. That's what got my attention. Having travelled in most European countries, I never had the privilege to say that my heart was captured by the beauty of the ocean.


        Cons:
        -Terrible infrastructure, and I mean REALLY terrible.

        -While apartment prices are relatively low when compared to the west, it takes probably 2 weeks and 200 headaches to find an apartment that suits your needs.

        -Regular blackouts, which means NO electricity - sometimes for hours!

        -Since it's easy to hook up with girls, you might be distracted more often than you wish.

        -Endless poverty.

        There is no harm done in trying to live in the Philippines, just make sure to know what to expect. You can live in Malaysia or Thailand, countries with better conditions for becoming wealthy.
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        • Profile picture of the author ilynreal
          Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

          As any country, Philippines has its ups and downs in terms of the quality of life that you can get there.

          I've lived in Mactan Island - Cebu City, and here is what I experienced for about 6 months ago..

          Pros:
          +Extremely cheap transportation, especially the trikes and taxis. There is no chance that you would be able to ge such prices in the States or European countries.
          What can I say about comfort of trikes and jeepneys? It brings you from point A to point C, but that's pretty much it!

          +Many backpackers and expats, also some marketers and poker players who make their living online.

          +It's the paradise for a single male. Filipinas love westerners and would die to be seen with one! If you are male and single but can't get a girlfriend in the Philippines, something is wrong with you.

          +Reasonable for folks who like to go out to eat. You can get a meal for $1 to $5 and are probably quite full.

          +Gorgeous - virgin beaches. That's what got my attention. Having travelled in most European countries, I never had the privilege to say that my heart was captured by the beauty of the ocean.


          Cons:
          -Terrible infrastructure, and I mean REALLY terrible.

          -While apartment prices are relatively low when compared to the west, it takes probably 2 weeks and 200 headaches to find an apartment that suits your needs.

          -Regular blackouts, which means NO electricity - sometimes for hours!

          -Since it's easy to hook up with girls, you might be distracted more often than you wish.

          -Endless poverty.

          There is no harm done in trying to live in the Philippines, just make sure to know what to expect. You can live in Malaysia or Thailand, countries with better conditions for becoming wealthy.
          All of them are true, but one thing I beg too disagree. That Filipina all love western men?. Very not true. Some Filipina's turn to foreigners, because they feel it's their chance to get out of poverty.

          There is a stigma here in the Philippines, especially poor provinces. If they see a foreigner or even a Filipino that lives in manila, they will think that those people are rich and they will help them to get out of poverty.Here in Manila especially Makati, I really doubt it. Especially here in Makati that most people are degree holder.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zend
    Only South East Asia can offer you an affordable lifestyle. There are several countries in there with good expatriate settlement, and my only experience is in Malaysia and Bangkok. If you live for a whole year you will get a cheaper cost. My suggestion is in Bangkok, some travel blog recommend Bangkok for a place to stay for a long time and get focus on working.
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  • Profile picture of the author WeavingThoughts
    Malaysia is going to be a decent place while being cheap. Singapore isn't that cheap.
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  • Profile picture of the author KuhNoodle
    You may decide that you don't even have to leave the US. Do you think you could find a way to live for free? Do you have friends, relatives, anyone that wouldn't mind letting you live rent free for maybe like 3 months or so? And as far as food goes you can stack up on ramen noodles and oatmeal. It's cheap and will fill you up.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Move to the ghetto - problem solved

    I know a guy who rents a house for $8/month in Cleveland. You would be AMAZED at some of the loop-holes people use in the U.S!

    Plus you can always get government assistance while you're at it.
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    • Profile picture of the author KuhNoodle
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      Move to the ghetto - problem solved

      I know a guy who rents a house for $8/month in Cleveland. You would be AMAZED at some of the loop-holes people use in the U.S!

      Plus you can always get government assistance while you're at it.
      Don't you have to be "broke" to get on a government assistance? How do you do that if you actually have some money?
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      • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
        Originally Posted by KuhNoodle View Post

        Don't you have to be "broke" to get on a government assistance? How do you do that if you actually have some money?
        It all depends on your income. The whole reason the OP wants to move is because he plans on living on a subsistence income.

        If that's his goal, there's easier ways to go broke. America is still the greatest country in the world to be broke in, if you know the ropes.

        I've been watching too many episodes of 'Locked Up Abroad' on Netflix to be comfortable with the idea of this guy being broke in a foreign country.

        He could always live with mom and dad until he gets some cash.

        Or he could just hustle up and score a $2 or $3K a month income online.
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        • Profile picture of the author KuhNoodle
          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

          It all depends on your income. The whole reason the OP wants to move is because he plans on living on a subsistence income.

          If that's his goal, there's easier ways to go broke. America is still the greatest country in the world to be broke in, if you know the ropes.

          I've been watching too many episodes of 'Locked Up Abroad' on Netflix to be comfortable with the idea of this guy being broke in a foreign country.

          He could always live with mom and dad until he gets some cash.

          Or he could just hustle up and score a $2 or $3K a month income online.
          I was suggesting a combination of the your last two points. He should live with mom and pop or someone, and stack his internet money up.
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          • Profile picture of the author kajol shafiq
            I suggest that you try countries like Thailand, Malaysia or Singapore, though the last one can be fairly expensive.
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    I must admit I didn't enjoy moving countries, I went and lived in the Dominican Republic for a year, it just wasn't the same. I will say this, there is more to moving countries then devoting time to work, theres culture, language barrier, transport, dealing with mundane things like an electrical company (Wanted to kill my self!!) there is a lot more to it then a cheaper living cost.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jimerson Farveez
      Originally Posted by butters View Post

      I must admit I didn't enjoy moving countries, I went and lived in the Dominican Republic for a year, it just wasn't the same. I will say this, there is more to moving countries then devoting time to work, theres culture, language barrier, transport, dealing with mundane things like an electrical company (Wanted to kill my self!!) there is a lot more to it then a cheaper living cost.
      Of course, I agree with you. It is not easy to adopt new culture, location, and etc.... lots of stuffs are there to face other than expenses....
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  • Profile picture of the author sarahAttkinson
    Banned
    Moving to another country means changing your lifestyle completely!
    Most people are struggling to go to US :-)
    I would think more about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author khooster1
    I am from Singapore..
    Things are getting really expensive these days.
    Might not be so ideal if you are looking for a
    good relocation.

    Personally, both Thailand and Malaysia are
    good.

    1. High Speed Internet Bandwidth
    2. Very standard cost of living (especially Thailand)
    3. Friendly people
    4. Good infrastructure.
    5. Low taxes

    I would choose Thailand between the two..
    Cos I love Thai Massage
    (less than 10US for 1 hour of full relaxation)

    Can PM me if you need more information
    about this region.. I can share more with you.

    Cheers.




    .
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinDupre
    Thailand is cracking down on Immigration. The easiest way is to go to a Thai Language school or take 4 courses a semester at an international university to get an EDU visa. Note that technically you can't work here on a student visa, so you have to keep hush hush on it. You could start a business here, but you need to have a fair amount of capital in the bank and a Thai partner, I believe.

    Taxes still suck. There are only 2 countries in the world that require their expatriates to pay taxes. The USA is one of them. You only have to pay social security on the first 100k USD or so in some cases.

    While I've only travelled to them lightly, Laos, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam could be other choices. Vientienne is a tiny capital with not a whole lot to do, but the food is amazing and everything is crazy cheap, cheaper than Thailand. Not sure about all their immigration situations though.
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    • Profile picture of the author NoobSensei
      Hey everyone, thanks for the responses. There's a lot of great information and suggestions here. I thought I should clarify a couple things:

      My information product isn't yet generating any money; I'm developing it now, which means that income tax is only a concern after I launch. I'm not opposed to "country-hopping" if it's legal and logistically feasible; it would give me a chance to see some other parts of the world while also being able to devote myself to my project. For the pre-launch phase of my project, I'd be happy to find a low-cost country that just allowed me to rent an apartment for 6-12 months and do my own thing online, without a lot of red tape. For the post-launch phase, income tax and labor laws would be more important considerations.

      I should also note that this is temporary; I do plan on moving back to the United States after I launch, earn a bit of money, and make a dent in my student debt repayment. This is just a temporary cost-savings measure, probably for no more than two years.

      Does anyone know anything about Costa Rica or Panama? I've heard that a lot of Americans retire there due to the low cost of living...would they be good places for internet marketers too?
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      • Profile picture of the author JDBOTX5
        Originally Posted by NoobSensei View Post

        Hey everyone, thanks for the responses. There's a lot of great information and suggestions here. I thought I should clarify a couple things:

        My information product isn't yet generating any money; I'm developing it now, which means that income tax is only a concern after I launch. I'm not opposed to "country-hopping" if it's legal and logistically feasible; it would give me a chance to see some other parts of the world while also being able to devote myself to my project. For the pre-launch phase of my project, I'd be happy to find a low-cost country that just allowed me to rent an apartment for 6-12 months and do my own thing online, without a lot of red tape. For the post-launch phase, income tax and labor laws would be more important considerations.

        I should also note that this is temporary; I do plan on moving back to the United States after I launch, earn a bit of money, and make a dent in my student debt repayment. This is just a temporary cost-savings measure, probably for no more than two years.

        Does anyone know anything about Costa Rica or Panama? I've heard that a lot of Americans retire there due to the low cost of living...would they be good places for internet marketers too?
        I am from Costa Rica but I have been living and working in Panama for about 8 years. I would recommend both countries.
        In Costa Rica the weather, the people and the women there are amazing but Panama has become a hub for business in the Americas in the last few years.

        In Panama you can rent a nice ocean view apt for about $1300 a month and there are cheaper just as nice.

        I would be glad to help if you decide to come over to Panama. Any questions you may have let me know.

        Best
        JD
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    • Profile picture of the author NoobSensei
      Originally Posted by JustinDupre View Post

      Taxes still suck. There are only 2 countries in the world that require their expatriates to pay taxes. The USA is one of them.
      As I understand US income tax law (which admittedly may be completely off-base), expatriates can exclude $95,100 of "foreign earned income"...which would effectively mean no income tax for many of us (although we'd still owe other US taxes). What's confusing to me is what counts as "foreign earned income" when it comes to internet marketing, since the income is all online.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
        Originally Posted by NoobSensei View Post

        As I understand US income tax law (which admittedly may be completely off-base), expatriates can exclude $95,100 of "foreign earned income"...which would effectively mean no income tax for many of us (although we'd still owe other US taxes). What's confusing to me is what counts as "foreign earned income" when it comes to internet marketing, since the income is all online.
        You're right about the confusing part. Essentially, it has to be salary from services performed. It can't be business income. So you have to incorporate and give yourself a job to make it work. But don't take my advice, talk to a pro.
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  • Profile picture of the author theimdude
    and i though USA was where the milk and honey is
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by theimdude View Post

      and i though USA was where the milk and honey is
      It is...plenty of milk and lotsa honeys!
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  • Profile picture of the author mekdroid
    Do you speak a foreign language? If the answer is no then I am afraid that your options are rather limited (unless you are willing to learn).

    Maybe you should consider Costa Rica, there is a big US expat community there where you will at least be able to make some friends, the Health Care system is excellent, crime is low, the Internet infrastructure is very good, the country is just plain beautiful and the people are friendly.

    Also, it is a relatively short flight to the US in case you need/want to come back once in a while ...

    The only problem with Costa Rica is that it is not as cheap as other countries in Latin America (let alone India) but it is probably the best bet for a US citizen.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    I live in and run a business from the Philippines, but I've traveled SE Asia pretty extensively. Aside from Singapore, you can "baseline" and get a business up and running pretty cheaply in any of the countries around here.

    In fact, we know hundreds of other entrepreneurs that are doing something similar. Check out the Lifestyle Business Podcast for more info and insights into this lifestyle.
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    • Profile picture of the author jan roos
      I've done it for a few years now. Go to Nicaragua, it's cheap and awesome. Every 3 months you can drive 40 minutes to Costa Rica for a weekend to get another 3 month stamp for Nicaragua.

      Also, if you are outside of the US for more than 330 days in the year you can earn $97K tax free by claiming the foreign income exclusion.

      Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyTorrents
    The cost of living in Taiwan is not very high either and most people know English. In South of Taiwan rent and expenses are much cheaper than in the North. You can also stay for 6 months on a visitor VISA.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gail B
    The Philippines. It's low cost. Plus, whatever American dollars you have, it'll be times 40. Enjoy the marvelous views and sights.
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  • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
    I get by in Thailand on about $800 USD/month and save the rest. And I'm enjoying the fudge out of life and building my business at breakneck speed.

    I prefer to stay in 'chic' hostels around the country, I get to meet interesting people, I go on spontaneous trips with cute girls, and still (or perhaps because of all these things) - somehow manage epic productivity levels.

    Thai WIFI is almost ubiquitously reliable (or, if you're in the islands...'good enough').

    Having spent some time in both Costa Rica and Nicaragua, I agree with the comments above about them being excellent digital nomad bases.

    However...Thailand is MUCH safer than any south/central american country, very well developed and just overall...pleasant. You'll never see 7/11s the same way again..

    Viva Thailand!

    You'll also be able to fly almost anywhere in Southeast Asia for ridiculously cheap using Air Asia, Nok Air and others.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
      Banned
      Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

      I get by in Thailand on about $800 USD/month and save the rest. And I'm enjoying the fudge out of life and building my business at breakneck speed.

      I prefer to stay in 'chic' hostels around the country, I get to meet interesting people, I go on spontaneous trips with cute girls, and still (or perhaps because of all these things) - somehow manage epic productivity levels.

      Thai WIFI is almost ubiquitously reliable (or, if you're in the islands...'good enough').

      Having spent some time in both Costa Rica and Nicaragua, I agree with the comments above about them being excellent digital nomad bases.

      However...Thailand is MUCH safer than any south/central american country, very well developed and just overall...pleasant. You'll never see 7/11s the same way again..

      Viva Thailand!

      You'll also be able to fly almost anywhere in Southeast Asia for ridiculously cheap using Air Asia, Nok Air and others.
      Can definitely see from your writing that you are a poet.

      The cost of living in SE Asia is relatively reasonable when compared to western countries. From my experience it's more about the quality of life, and additional benefits you get when living in SE Asia.

      What I do like about Thailand is the standard of apartments, food, and beaches. However, with that much Sex going on, there are way too many distractions for the average person.

      The best communities are in Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. Living in these cities becomes more of a concern when you are actually making 6 to 7 figures a year. It doesn't make financial sense to spend 30% to 50% of what you make on your lifestyle. That's not smart.

      If you are serious about making money and keeping it, consider moving into a country with low corporate income tax.. Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand offer these income tax benefits.

      Many foreigners decide not to report their income and don't register a company. Illegal income will slowly but surely become a problem.

      Strongly consider where you live, and make that decision based on how much you currently make and how you intend to build your financial future.
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      • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
        That's solid advice, Gerald. ;-)

        As far as this bit --

        Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

        What I do like about Thailand is the standard of apartments, food, and beaches. However, with that much Sex going on, there are way too many distractions for the average person.
        In all seriousness, and this is just my personal experience, I find that the "sex" pulls me into total relaxation/plugged-out mode, and when I get back to work, I'm really dialed in and focused.

        Tony Schwartz, who wrote the Power of Full Engagement did a whole long ass talk about this on Eben Pagan's altitude. So while it's counterintuitive, I think the average guy might actually benefit from circumstances that 'enforce' full engagement in play/downtime yet allow the pendulum to swing the other way when it's time to get shizzle done.

        I'm keen to head down to KL (in Phuket ATM) and try some of the cuisine. Perhaps on the next visa run! ;-)
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        • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
          Banned
          Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

          That's solid advice, Gerald. ;-)

          As far as this bit --



          In all seriousness, and this is just my personal experience, I find that the "sex" pulls me into total relaxation/plugged-out mode, and when I get back to work, I'm really dialed in and focused.

          Tony Schwartz, who wrote the Power of Full Engagement did a whole long ass talk about this on Eben Pagan's altitude. So while it's counterintuitive, I think the average guy might actually benefit from circumstances that 'enforce' full engagement in play/downtime yet allow the pendulum to swing the other way when it's time to get shizzle done.

          I'm keen to head down to KL (in Phuket ATM) and try some of the cuisine. Perhaps on the next visa run! ;-)
          It's fine to do when you are single, however things change when you get serious with someone. You can have fantastic sex with the same person, again and again. It all comes down on whether you perceive having IT with the same person is attractive or not.

          Sure, come down here and take a look at the city.

          I'm currently staying in East Malaysia. I'll be going to Penang for vacation on Monday. Penang is close to the Thai border.
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  • Profile picture of the author smodha
    We're thinking of moving to the far east soon. Currently in the UK but have looked at Singapore, Dubai and India. India is the cheapest by far and the most hectic! But who wants to live life in the slow lane, right?
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    • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
      Banned
      Originally Posted by smodha View Post

      We're thinking of moving to the far east soon. Currently in the UK but have looked at Singapore, Dubai and India. India is the cheapest by far and the most hectic! But who wants to live life in the slow lane, right?
      Yeah, Delhi is similar to Cairo, very hectic! Still, there's a lot that I do like about these countries. If you enjoy a backwards live, enjoy the culture and food, why not?

      Every country has its beauties. It all comes down to what you value and whether you can obtain these values in India.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sushiman1111
    As an American, more or less anywhere in SE Asia you can make a little money on the side by teaching English. Yes, depending on your visa you may have to do it on the QT, but you can do it.

    If you stay more than 330 days out of the year, you also get the above-mentioned $97,000+ tax break. You'd have to do a LOT of IM to break that level, which means that you would get to keep everything you made.

    Yes, I'm a US citizen living abroad who makes money via IM. No, you don't have to pay taxes on it because you're earning money abroad, not in the USA.

    As for bank accounts, you only have to report and do all the obnoxious paperwork if you keep more than $10K in your account(s) at one time. Living in a place like Thailand, you could keep half that amount, have an enormous cushion in case something went wrong, and still be a long way away from having to do any extra paperwork. It's true that some countries don't want to deal with US citizens because of the rules change, but if you're a small fish there won't be any problem.

    Personally, I would recommend someplace like Ipoh, Malaysia. Nice expat community, cheap as hell, good internet infrastructure, and you're not too far from both Thailand and Singapore. A couple can live very nicely for about $1200/month there. And most places in the world today, you can make your way just using English (not that I recommend that, but it can be done). Worst case, just trade some English lessons for help from a local with setting up your internet, etc. Check out the visa options and see what's available.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Sushiman1111 View Post

      As an American, more or less anywhere in SE Asia you can make a little money on the side by teaching English. Yes, depending on your visa you may have to do it on the QT, but you can do it.

      If you stay more than 330 days out of the year, you also get the above-mentioned $97,000+ tax break. You'd have to do a LOT of IM to break that level, which means that you would get to keep everything you made.

      Yes, I'm a US citizen living abroad who makes money via IM. No, you don't have to pay taxes on it because you're earning money abroad, not in the USA.

      As for bank accounts, you only have to report and do all the obnoxious paperwork if you keep more than $10K in your account(s) at one time. Living in a place like Thailand, you could keep half that amount, have an enormous cushion in case something went wrong, and still be a long way away from having to do any extra paperwork. It's true that some countries don't want to deal with US citizens because of the rules change, but if you're a small fish there won't be any problem.

      Personally, I would recommend someplace like Ipoh, Malaysia. Nice expat community, cheap as hell, good internet infrastructure, and you're not too far from both Thailand and Singapore. A couple can live very nicely for about $1200/month there. And most places in the world today, you can make your way just using English (not that I recommend that, but it can be done). Worst case, just trade some English lessons for help from a local with setting up your internet, etc. Check out the visa options and see what's available.
      That's correct. If you are overseas you don't have to pay taxes in you country. But at the same time, you've to pay somewhere, provided you want to store cleaned money in your bank account. That really ONLY becomes a concern once you start making considerable income.

      Malaysia is great. The further you get away from the bigger cities the cheaper the living gets. It's the same in Europe, and probably US too.

      Your money goes a long way in SE Asia and the lifestyle you can live here BEATS most of what you get in the west. What encouraged me to come here were the beaches, tax benefits and lifestyle.

      As for English teaching; You can do private an extra tuition, and do pretty good with it.

      Here is a tip for those who want to make considerable money, living in the tropics: Open up a Hong Kong company and bank account. You can run your entire online business via Hong Kong company while enjoying enormous tax benefits. You can operate a company in Hong Kong without proof of residence. All they really care about is that cleaned money is kept in your bank account.
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  • Profile picture of the author typoo999
    In Hungary, you can live from $500 per month if you only spend on your food, rent, bills etc. (this is the average income here as well)

    The bad side: I'm paying 50% of my revenue as tax, yes, 50%. If my revenue is from the EU, I pay an additional 27% VAT. F*ck this country...
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    • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
      Banned
      Originally Posted by typoo999 View Post

      In Hungary, you can live from $500 per month if you only spend on your food, rent, bills etc. (this is the average income here as well)

      The bad side: I'm paying 50% of my revenue as tax, yes, 50%. If my revenue is from the EU, I pay an additional 27% VAT. F*ck this country...
      I'm originally from Austria and it's very similar here. If you are not willing to waste so much money on uncle Mike, you might consider relocating to a country with low income tax.

      Here you can get more info:

      List of countries by tax rates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    • Profile picture of the author rondo
      Originally Posted by typoo999 View Post

      In Hungary, you can live from $500 per month if you only spend on your food, rent, bills etc. (this is the average income here as well)

      The bad side: I'm paying 50% of my revenue as tax, yes, 50%. If my revenue is from the EU, I pay an additional 27% VAT. F*ck this country...
      Hungary sounds like an interesting option, especially at those prices!
      Where else in the EU is cheap to live?


      Andrew
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      • Profile picture of the author e4job
        you might find this description my dad did about living in Costa Rica of value -

        Living in Costa Rica
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      • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
        Banned
        Originally Posted by rondo View Post

        Hungary sounds like an interesting option, especially at those prices!
        Where else in the EU is cheap to live?


        Andrew
        In most southern European countries you can live cheap, probably really well with $1,000. That cheap cost of living has its reasons and brings disadvantages like lack of security or stable internet connection.

        It's better to pay a bit more and have a solid place to stay.

        Countries like Albania aren't any better than SE Asia. In fact, I consider Malaysia as being far more valuable than many southern European countries!
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  • Profile picture of the author Leo Martinez
    I agree with the above poster about Hong Kong. What a gem this city is. Perhaps you can consider living there and having your operations nearby. Philippines & India are just few hours away.
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  • Profile picture of the author betterwtveter
    I would choose costa rica due to how affordable, and beautiful it is there.
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    • Profile picture of the author wesd22
      You can IBR your student loans. You can pay as little as $20 a month on a few hundred thousand dollars of student loans if your income is low.

      There is a reason the cost of living is cheap in those countries. The grass is definitely not greener and you will give up quite a bit to go live in a third world country. It's like moving from NYC to Mississippi. Yeah Mississippi is cheaper but it's Mississippi.
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      • Profile picture of the author glooft
        Having spent some time in Costa Rica and Nicaragua, that would be my choice. Good Internet, friendly people, beautiful beaches, beautiful mountains and large expat communities.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gonzosan
          I'd say the Philippines. I plan on living there for a bit once I get out of the military but I'm still deciding where I could live that would give me a similar living area of that of here in the US. Obviously the country is a lot different in general but I have yet to see a place there that really reminded me of the US. My wife currently lives in Manila which is pretty nasty. For those expats (namely US expats) living in the Philippines where do you recommend? I'd probably stay there for about 6 months and go from there.
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          • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Gonzosan View Post

            I'd say the Philippines. I plan on living there for a bit once I get out of the military but I'm still deciding where I could live that would give me a similar living area of that of here in the US. Obviously the country is a lot different in general but I have yet to see a place there that really reminded me of the US. My wife currently lives in Manila which is pretty nasty. For those expats (namely US expats) living in the Philippines where do you recommend? I'd probably stay there for about 6 months and go from there.
            I've lived in Mactan Island - Cebu City. In all honesty, what I really valued in the Philippines were the friendly people, seafood and beaches. Internet connection was more than horrible. We experienced 1 to 3 brownouts a week, really bad.

            I can't say much about Manila, but the internet connection is much better there.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

              I've lived in Mactan Island - Cebu City. In all honesty, what I really valued in the Philippines were the friendly people, seafood and beaches. Internet connection was more than horrible. We experienced 1 to 3 brownouts a week, really bad.

              I can't say much about Manila, but the internet connection is much better there.
              I always enjoy reading these threads about interesting places to live, but some of the comments give me palpitations. Loss of internet connection 1 - 3 times per week would be a horrendous disaster for me.

              I always assume that "any big city" is going to have a reliable internet connection, typically with high-speed cable available, and telephone-line-broadband available as a back-up? Maybe Manila's like that?

              I think satellite connections can still be variable and intermittent, in some places?

              "Ease/reliability" of internet connection is kind of the first thing I'd want to know about a place, myself.
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              • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                I always enjoy reading these threads about interesting places to live, but some of the comments give me palpitations. Loss of internet connection 1 - 3 times per week would be a horrendous disaster for me.

                I always assume that "any big city" is going to have a reliable internet connection, typically with high-speed cable available, and telephone-line-broadband available as a back-up? Maybe Manila's like that?

                I think satellite connections can still be variable and intermittent, in some places?

                "Ease/reliability" of internet connection is kind of the first thing I'd want to know about a place, myself.
                My guess is that it's been quite a while since the OP you're referring to has been in the Philippines?

                I live in Davao City (a smaller area than Cebu) and it's really not that bad.

                We have mini power outages every once in a while (once a month maybe?) that last for around 10-30 minutes. Download speeds aren't great at 6Mbps Down and 1Mbps Up...but good enough to do most everything you need.

                Cebu's better off than we are with some fiber connections in the city now and Manila's even better off than they are. (Specifically areas like Makati, Ortigas, etc.)
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              • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
                Alexa... men (and women) NEED palpitations! (Otherwise they forget their heart is beating)

                Man is a desert rose who flowers in the rugged sand.

                In regards to good internet, I can only comment on where I've been. Thailand is solid almost across the board. You wont be watching HD youtube or streaming the season 6 premier of Made Men but you can work.

                Oh wait...I just DID stream the season 6 premier Mad Men on Thai wifi (over a $1 beer and $4 dinner).

                Live dangerously ya'll...

                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                I always enjoy reading these threads about interesting places to live, but some of the comments give me palpitations. Loss of internet connection 1 - 3 times per week would be a horrendous disaster for me.

                I always assume that "any big city" is going to have a reliable internet connection, typically with high-speed cable available, and telephone-line-broadband available as a back-up? Maybe Manila's like that?

                I think satellite connections can still be variable and intermittent, in some places?

                "Ease/reliability" of internet connection is kind of the first thing I'd want to know about a place, myself.
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              • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                I always enjoy reading these threads about interesting places to live, but some of the comments give me palpitations. Loss of internet connection 1 - 3 times per week would be a horrendous disaster for me.

                I always assume that "any big city" is going to have a reliable internet connection, typically with high-speed cable available, and telephone-line-broadband available as a back-up? Maybe Manila's like that?

                I think satellite connections can still be variable and intermittent, in some places?

                "Ease/reliability" of internet connection is kind of the first thing I'd want to know about a place, myself.
                You have to pick the good from the rotten apples.

                There's a whole lot of discussions going on online about many countries. Most folks who relocate in the Philippines are retired males above age 50.
                I've met up with all sorts of guys, but most where more than twice as old as I am. lol

                There are very few western women who settle down in this country, so to speak.

                Regarding satellite connections: I assume you are referring to TV? The Philippines is a definite developing country, a country that has a lot to offer in terms of natural beauty, but not so much in terms of technology.
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        • Profile picture of the author GobBluthJD
          Originally Posted by glooft View Post

          Having spent some time in Costa Rica and Nicaragua, that would be my choice. Good Internet, friendly people, beautiful beaches, beautiful mountains and large expat communities.
          Exactly what I came here to say. Don't overlook Central and South America. I've lived in Venezuela and Honduras and, if you get outside of the large cities, it's darn near paradise (or, as close as you'll come in a third-world country).
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  • Profile picture of the author Sushiman1111
    I have business partners in Manila, and regularly - regularly - experience connection difficulties with them.

    I would stay away from the PI if you plan on doing a business that relies on a solid internet connection. Even email is iffy there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gonzosan
      Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

      I've lived in Mactan Island - Cebu City. In all honesty, what I really valued in the Philippines were the friendly people, seafood and beaches. Internet connection was more than horrible. We experienced 1 to 3 brownouts a week, really bad.

      I can't say much about Manila, but the internet connection is much better there.
      Originally Posted by Sushiman1111 View Post

      I have business partners in Manila, and regularly - regularly - experience connection difficulties with them.

      I would stay away from the PI if you plan on doing a business that relies on a solid internet connection. Even email is iffy there.
      Well there goes that idea. Cost of living and such is great but great internet is a priority. Especially considering my IM type business revolves around video and digital (graphics/3D) content. Honestly I would love to live in Japan for a little bit but it was pretty pricey to live there. Maybe somewhere like Sendai or maybe even further south but not exactly in Tokyo. I'm sure living there would be more expensive than living here in Vegas though. Still though the one thing that keeps me away from Japan, other than I have a very basic rudimentary knowledge of the language, is that they still seem very closed off to other cultures. I'm sure in time things will change.

      I've never been to any other Asian countries other than South Korea but I was 20 at the time and didn't go out much although I did visit Seoul. SK isn't really on my list of countries to live in though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Sushiman1111 View Post

      I have business partners in Manila, and regularly - regularly - experience connection difficulties with them.

      I would stay away from the PI if you plan on doing a business that relies on a solid internet connection. Even email is iffy there.
      That's why I decided to give up on living in the Philippines. There's a lot that I like about this tropical country, but without a decent internet connection, I have no other choice than too leave.

      Makati City should have a somewhat decent internet connection. Just make sure that you get a backup for your WIFI.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
    I live in Chiang Mai Northern Thailand, and it suits my needs I live on around $1,300 a month but that is for a family of four. Pretty laid back sort of place, all the mod cons like cinemas, western restaurants, fairly decent internet connection etc, load of coffee shops and the like. Nice countryside outside the town and a fairly large expat population. It would cost me well over double to live in the UK where I'm from, my biggest expense is the children's school fees at around $250 a month.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aura
    My only suggestion:

    Shift where you can work well. As you said, you'll be dedicating your resources to a product you'll sell online, right?

    Drop the "taxes" thought for a while. Shift where you'll get access to all the services you get in US.

    I'm from India, I know how ****ed up it is here. RBI or Reserve Bank of India severly limits and cripples online payment services like PayPal, just google it.
    And that's not the end. It's a headache to get access to your online cash account with your bank account. You can't buy prepaid cards here anonymously. Every single policy of the government here doesn't allow you to earn without going unnoticed while our corrupt leaders launder their cash to Dubai and Switzerland.

    Living here is not very expensive though. However if you get into Urban or Suburbs.

    Stay where you live bud. Migrating to some other nation would require a lot of stuff, then setting up accounts from scratch would be another hassle, let alone blending with your new surroundings.

    US taxes might be too much for you, but trust me you'll lose up more in this process. Not worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    Why move when you can make $80K by literally doing nothing?
    Mother qualifies for $80K in Gov assistance
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    A few things to think about:

    1. Until you are fluent in the language you will feel lost no matter how many expats or English speakers are around. For example you won't be able to read a menu in a restaurant (most anyway), the newspaper, or listen to the radio.

    2. Some payment processors don't work in some countries. Keep that in mind if you want to do online work. If you keep your US address on file with the company, let's say Paypal, then you use your Paypal debit card overseas or login overseas that may cause you some hassles or a locked account.

    3. If you list your location as most of the cities mentioned in this thread, there will be those who automatically trust you a little less. If you don't think location matters move to Nigeria or any other place in Africa and try to run a business from there if people know you live there.

    4. If you want to live cheaply you typically have to stay away from where all the other expats are living and socializing and eating. Eating local food is cheap in most places. Western food will eliminate any cost advantage - at least for that meal. Live in the same kind of places the locals do for the best cost advantage. Smaller places are normally cheaper but have less "temptation" in the form of expensive entertainment and food which can be good and bad. You may hate McDonald's in the USA but that's because you have a choice. When the choice isn't there, you may find you get a hankering for stuff you have no way to buy and that can lead to homesickness.

    5. In some countries, if you visit on a tourist visa and you claim (or really didn't) you didn't make any money while staying there, they will automatically assume you were teaching English or doing something else to live and will force you to pay taxes when you leave.

    6. While medical care is excellent and cheap (even without insurance) in many places, the standard (for better or worse) just isn't the same. For example, the doctor may not use gloves when examining you or when taking blood. You just have to deal with it like the locals do - go with the flow.

    I'm not trying to put a downer on your idea but let you in on some realities that many don't think about.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author wesd22
      One thing I've always experienced in third world countries is hassle.

      So much of living there is hassle to get anything done. Bureaucracy, corruption, bribes, brown outs, crappy Internet, scammers everywhere. The US lifestyle is much more hassle-free in comparison.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

        One thing I've always experienced in third world countries...
        Which the US is quickly becoming.

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    • Profile picture of the author jan roos
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      A few things to think about:

      1. Until you are fluent in the language you will feel lost no matter how many expats or English speakers are around. For example you won't be able to read a menu in a restaurant (most anyway), the newspaper, or listen to the radio.

      2. Some payment processors don't work in some countries. Keep that in mind if you want to do online work. If you keep your US address on file with the company, let's say Paypal, then you use your Paypal debit card overseas or login overseas that may cause you some hassles or a locked account.

      3. If you list your location as most of the cities mentioned in this thread, there will be those who automatically trust you a little less. If you don't think location matters move to Nigeria or any other place in Africa and try to run a business from there if people know you live there.

      4. If you want to live cheaply you typically have to stay away from where all the other expats are living and socializing and eating. Eating local food is cheap in most places. Western food will eliminate any cost advantage - at least for that meal. Live in the same kind of places the locals do for the best cost advantage. Smaller places are normally cheaper but have less "temptation" in the form of expensive entertainment and food which can be good and bad. You may hate McDonald's in the USA but that's because you have a choice. When the choice isn't there, you may find you get a hankering for stuff you have no way to buy and that can lead to homesickness.

      5. In some countries, if you visit on a tourist visa and you claim (or really didn't) you didn't make any money while staying there, they will automatically assume you were teaching English or doing something else to live and will force you to pay taxes when you leave.

      6. While medical care is excellent and cheap (even without insurance) in many places, the standard (for better or worse) just isn't the same. For example, the doctor may not use gloves when examining you or when taking blood. You just have to deal with it like the locals do - go with the flow.

      I'm not trying to put a downer on your idea but let you in on some realities that many don't think about.

      Mark
      Mostly BS! Sorry had to say that.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gonzosan
        Originally Posted by WikiWarrior View Post

        1) Healthy eating and drinking - I have a few health issues that here in the UK I can minimize effectively by having a very healthy diet. Eating all sorts of weird and wonderful foreign food with spices and who knows what ingredients is a bit of a worry, although this is more of a long-term consideration than short-term. Also, I wonder if having to use bottled water for everything would get old after a while (?).

        2) Creepy crawlies - dealing with giant centipedes, spiders, snakes, wild dogs, mozzies etc. on a regular basis would freak me out lol. Or maybe you guys get used to it through exposure (?).
        Well first off, good luck with your future endeavors. When I was in the Philippines this past Dec/January my wife and I went around to some different islands (Palawan). I remember the whole time I was in the Philippines I had a pretty bad case of the runs, every single day. The day we returned from Palawan to go back to Manila I had a pretty bad fever. Even though it was December/January it was pretty hot still.

        The temperatures in Palawan were in the 90s with humidity in the 90s as well. Manila was slightly lower so the difference in temperature and the food in general just really messed me up good.

        Speaking on creepy crawlies. When we were in Palawan we were going on this firefly river "cruise" so we had to wait at the dock outside in the dark. I saw a centipede walking around close to me and my wife jumped back. I didn't realize they were poisonous but our tour guide quickly killed it. All sorts of weird stuff like that in the tropical places. Just wanted to share my experience. I'm not sure if I could live in a place like that full time. The US might be a bit more expensive but the lifestyle is way better too.
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        • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
          Originally Posted by Gonzosan View Post

          Well first off, good luck with your future endeavors. When I was in the Philippines this past Dec/January my wife and I went around to some different islands (Palawan). I remember the whole time I was in the Philippines I had a pretty bad case of the runs, every single day. The day we returned from Palawan to go back to Manila I had a pretty bad fever. Even though it was December/January it was pretty hot still.

          The temperatures in Palawan were in the 90s with humidity in the 90s as well. Manila was slightly lower so the difference in temperature and the food in general just really messed me up good.

          Speaking on creepy crawlies. When we were in Palawan we were going on this firefly river "cruise" so we had to wait at the dock outside in the dark. I saw a centipede walking around close to me and my wife jumped back. I didn't realize they were poisonous but our tour guide quickly killed it. All sorts of weird stuff like that in the tropical places. Just wanted to share my experience. I'm not sure if I could live in a place like that full time. The US might be a bit more expensive but the lifestyle is way better too.
          Sounds like a visit to Living Hell
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
        Originally Posted by jan roos View Post

        Mostly BS! Sorry had to say that.
        Why do you call this mostly BS?

        In your experience perhaps you haven't faced these issues. That doesn't mean that others don't. In my experience, every word I wrote is true.

        Mark
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        • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

          Why do you call this mostly BS?

          In your experience perhaps you haven't faced these issues. That doesn't mean that others don't. In my experience, every word I wrote is true.

          Mark
          I tend to agree with Jan on this one, sure if the op is planning on moving to Nigeria or Somalia or the Sudan then yes but this is highly unlikely.

          For instance not one of the six points you make are an issue for me in Chiang Mai,Thailand.

          Your views come across to me as someone who has rarely ventured away from his home country.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
            Originally Posted by Stevie C View Post

            I tend to agree with Jan on this one, sure if the op is planning on moving to Nigeria or Somalia or the Sudan then yes but this is highly unlikely.

            For instance not one of the six points you make are an issue for me in Chiang Mai,Thailand.
            It's good that you don't have these issues. Many people do or have including me and perhaps it depends on the country. Like I said everyone's experience may be different.

            Your views come across to me as someone who has rarely ventured away from his home country.
            These are not my "views" they are experiences.

            1. Until you are fluent in the language you will feel lost no matter how many expats or English speakers are around. For example you won't be able to read a menu in a restaurant (most anyway), the newspaper, or listen to the radio.
            You're saying that in Thailand that a person can read the menus, road signs, street addresses, newspapers, watch TV, etc. without being fluent in Thai and understand it all and that English is well enough spoken by all so that 100% communication is possible with all around?

            2. Some payment processors don't work in some countries. Keep that in mind if you want to do online work. If you keep your US address on file with the company, let's say Paypal, then you use your Paypal debit card overseas or login overseas that may cause you some hassles or a locked account.
            I believe that if your Paypal account is still in your home country and you start logging in overseas, taking money out of the ATM overseas, etc. that eventually it will raise flags. At least it does for many people who have had their accounts locked because Paypal thought an overseas hacker was trying to get into the account. Of course you can call Paypal and tell them of your plans but my point was that it can cause some hassles. Also Paypal has certain limitations (compared to the US) in some of the countries mentioned in this thread such as India and Taiwan.

            3. If you list your location as most of the cities mentioned in this thread, there will be those who automatically trust you a little less. If you don't think location matters move to Nigeria or any other place in Africa and try to run a business from there if people know you live there.
            You are saying that there are no racists or people who believe that at least some "foreigners" are less trustworthy? Maybe in your world everyone trusts everyone no matter the color of their skin or where they live. In mine, unfortunately, real life means that there is real discrimination, racism, and lack of trust for many foreigners or even people living in a foreign land.

            4. If you want to live cheaply you typically have to stay away from where all the other expats are living and socializing and eating. Eating local food is cheap in most places. Western food will eliminate any cost advantage - at least for that meal. Live in the same kind of places the locals do for the best cost advantage. Smaller places are normally cheaper but have less "temptation" in the form of expensive entertainment and food which can be good and bad. You may hate McDonald's in the USA but that's because you have a choice. When the choice isn't there, you may find you get a hankering for stuff you have no way to buy and that can lead to homesickness.
            Maybe in Thailand you can eat at all the western restaurants and still live cheap. In other places you can't.

            For example if you buy a local lunch for $1.50 you can live the dream of cheap costs while living overseas. If you eat at Friday's you spend let's say 8 times that - just like in the US. The point is that you can't eat a good filling meal (meat, vegetables, rice, beverage, etc.) in the US for $1.50 but you can overseas so if you mainly stick to the local food you can save money and get ahead. If you are spending the same amount you would say in the US you are at no advantage.

            The same goes for living arrangements, entertainment, etc.

            5. In some countries, if you visit on a tourist visa and you claim (or really didn't) you didn't make any money while staying there, they will automatically assume you were teaching English or doing something else to live and will force you to pay taxes when you leave.
            This happened to me. Granted it was 20+ years ago but it did happen.

            6. While medical care is excellent and cheap (even without insurance) in many places, the standard (for better or worse) just isn't the same. For example, the doctor may not use gloves when examining you or when taking blood. You just have to deal with it like the locals do - go with the flow.
            One simple example - I've had my blood drawn and had injections many times. Not once - in big hospitals or local places - has anyone ever worn gloves. That is a fact. Maybe in other places it's different. The medical care is good and cheap but the "standards" are not the same as those in the US.

            Mark
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            • Profile picture of the author J Bold
              Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post


              This happened to me. Granted it was 20+ years ago but it did happen.


              Mark

              I don't really have interest in all your other points but I'm curious as to what country this happened in? I've never, ever heard of that anywhere. I lived overseas in a few different countries for over 5 years total.

              Certainly never heard of that happening in Thailand or other SE Asian countries, which a lot of people are talking about.

              Obviously it happened to you, but I think that's rather unlikely to happen for most people. So what country was it? Curious...
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            • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
              Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

              It's good that you don't have these issues. Many people do or have including me and perhaps it depends on the country. Like I said everyone's experience may be different.



              These are not my "views" they are experiences.



              You're saying that in Thailand that a person can read the menus, road signs, street addresses, newspapers, watch TV, etc. without being fluent in Thai and understand it all and that English is well enough spoken by all so that 100% communication is possible with all around?



              I believe that if your Paypal account is still in your home country and you start logging in overseas, taking money out of the ATM overseas, etc. that eventually it will raise flags. At least it does for many people who have had their accounts locked because Paypal thought an overseas hacker was trying to get into the account. Of course you can call Paypal and tell them of your plans but my point was that it can cause some hassles. Also Paypal has certain limitations (compared to the US) in some of the countries mentioned in this thread such as India and Taiwan.



              You are saying that there are no racists or people who believe that at least some "foreigners" are less trustworthy? Maybe in your world everyone trusts everyone no matter the color of their skin or where they live. In mine, unfortunately, real life means that there is real discrimination, racism, and lack of trust for many foreigners or even people living in a foreign land.



              Maybe in Thailand you can eat at all the western restaurants and still live cheap. In other places you can't.

              For example if you buy a local lunch for $1.50 you can live the dream of cheap costs while living overseas. If you eat at Friday's you spend let's say 8 times that - just like in the US. The point is that you can't eat a good filling meal (meat, vegetables, rice, beverage, etc.) in the US for $1.50 but you can overseas so if you mainly stick to the local food you can save money and get ahead. If you are spending the same amount you would say in the US you are at no advantage.

              The same goes for living arrangements, entertainment, etc.



              This happened to me. Granted it was 20+ years ago but it did happen.



              One simple example - I've had my blood drawn and had injections many times. Not once - in big hospitals or local places - has anyone ever worn gloves. That is a fact. Maybe in other places it's different. The medical care is good and cheap but the "standards" are not the same as those in the US.

              Mark
              Well here's my answers

              Whatever country you go to you have to adapt to some extent to the language, I'm from the UK and if I go to France - 20 odd miles across the channel the street signs etc are in a different language, you deal with it.

              Saying that there are two English language papers in Thailand, street signs are mainly in both Thai and English, I can get International and UK news from the internet and enjoy listening to BBC Radio 4 while I'm working.

              No communication isn't always 100% understood but with a basic understanding of the language I can go about day to day tasks with no trouble.

              When it has come to dealing with business or tax issues or the like here then I have always found English speaking Thai professionals to deal with the matter in hand. Thai TV is awful so I don't waste my time with it, I can buy DVD's very cheaply here for all the latest movies and TV series from the US and UK.

              I've never had an issue with Paypal or raised any flags, nor am I aware of any other of the Internet Marketers living in Thailand I know having any problems.

              As for the comments about racism it exists for sure, but I don't see any issue with me living in Thailand as an Englishman affecting my business. There are dozens of guys traveling and working abroad. I have friends in the UK of Indian or African extraction who might suffer from racism though they were born there or lived there from an early age.

              As for living conditions and food. I live in a secure gated complex with swimming pool, there are approx a hundred houses on the complex with about 10% of the properties lived in by westerners. My kids are extremely safe here, the majority of the Thais living here work in jobs such as local government, factory managers, lawyers etc. My house is a 3 bedroom, two bathroom property with garden, it has all the mod cons you would expect in a western house.

              Food - I mainly eat Thai food because I enjoy it, it has a huge variety of dishes many very healthy. I can buy western food easily though imported goods such as cheese and wine which I am rather partial to are expensive. There are literally hundreds of western restaurants dotted around Chiang Mai at varying prices from a couple of dollars up.

              Never had any issues with paying tax when leaving the country but as you mentioned you overstayed your visa, if I did this then yes I would have to pay an overstay fee, there is a simple solution to this - don't do it

              I have been coming and going from Thailand for 17 years and luckily have not had to deal with the healthcare much here. I have had to have boosters for vaccinations etc and this has been to the same quality as the UK only a lot quicker and more professional.

              Some people are certainly better off staying at home and will find it hard to adapt to living in a foreign country I agree but I would encourage any young people who have an interest in exploring another country to go out and do it and don't be put off by the doom-mongers!
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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                Originally Posted by Stevie C View Post

                Some people are certainly better off staying at home and will find it hard to adapt to living in a foreign country I agree but I would encourage any young people who have an interest in exploring another country to go out and do it and don't be put off by the doom-mongers!
                I'm certainly not a doom monger. I have lived in my "heaven" 3 times now over the last 20+ years and still do and am extremely happy or I wouldn't be doing it.

                I've got many friends who hate it though because they weren't prepared. They came for the cheap life but weren't prepared for real life. They came to play and blew all their money. They came here for jobs and found that conditions were worse than their own countries. Etc. Etc.

                I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from living abroad. I just mentioned some things that some people don't think about and aren't prepared for when they have to face them.

                Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
    Go with what you heart tells you, it's not the end of your life if you have to come back from living abroad for a few months and get a job.

    I'm always astounded by how small minded and risk adverse some of these IM Warriors are especially coming from a background of entrepreneurship where risk taking is part of the equation
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    • Profile picture of the author WikiWarrior
      Thanks to everyone posting their experiences about living and working abroad, very inspiring. I'm planning on leaving the UK at the end of this year for a practise run of a month in Thailand, see how I feel and if everything seems good make a more permanent move and go traveling.

      From what I can gather if you're smart the relative safety of most of the countries mentioned is not too different from here in the UK. My main concerns about living abroad are:

      1) Healthy eating and drinking - I have a few health issues that here in the UK I can minimize effectively by having a very healthy diet. Eating all sorts of weird and wonderful foreign food with spices and who knows what ingredients is a bit of a worry, although this is more of a long-term consideration than short-term. Also, I wonder if having to use bottled water for everything would get old after a while (?).

      2) Creepy crawlies - dealing with giant centipedes, spiders, snakes, wild dogs, mozzies etc. on a regular basis would freak me out lol. Or maybe you guys get used to it through exposure (?).

      Anyway, the above won't put me off giving this a try. Doing internet marketing is a perfect opportunity to see the world if I can arrange my business affairs in such a way as to make it possible.
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      • Profile picture of the author wesd22
        Originally Posted by WikiWarrior View Post


        2) Creepy crawlies - dealing with giant centipedes, spiders, snakes, wild dogs, mozzies etc. on a regular basis would freak me out lol. Or maybe you guys get used to it through exposure (?).
        Oh but you're leaving out one of the most common bug in the tropics: giant flying roaches. We're talking 3+ inches.

        As soon as it gets dark, they come out. On your porch, patio, the sidewalks, etc. And they do get in homes at night because they can fit through the tiniest cracks. They come in to get cool mostly and for water - luckily they don't infest and live inside of homes usually.

        I cannot quite explain to you the terror of dealing with these things. They fly at you. They crawl on your wall as you're at your computer desk. And they're so big that the other night while I was at my desk, I heard something crunching. I look at the ground and there is a huge roach eating a small piece of dorito that I had dropped on the ground. Yes I could hear him eating - that's how big they are.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

          They fly at you. They crawl on your wall as you're at your computer desk.
          But can you train them to check your email for you, do a bit of off-page SEO, or whatever? This is the question.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Thailand is a pretty good place to live for internet marketers. It's usually best if you are actually making some money online first before you move away to pursue this dream of living abroad and working online though. If it doesn't work out you'll need to make sure you have back up cash for emergencies and enough for a flight home. It would be better to be completely broke in your own country than abroad I should think. So might be wise to get the project earning some money first.

    I've travelled and lived all over the world for a few years now and love it.

    Oh and no problems with internet connections in most of the developed parts of Thailand. Bangkok has some of the best internet you'll find anywhere. Cheap to live too.

    I love the place. Shall be back in a couple of months. Unless you're a whore monger who likes being surrounded by sex-pats, sex tourists and hookers then avoid Pattaya like the plague, it's a horrible dump to boot and has nothing good going for it. Bangkok or Chiang Mai are the places to be though I find CM a bit quiet and boring for my liking.
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    • Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

      Thailand is a pretty good place to live for internet marketers. Bangkok has some of the best internet you'll find anywhere. Cheap to live too.

      I love the place. Shall be back in a couple of months. Unless you're a whore monger who likes being surrounded by sex-pats, sex tourists and hookers then avoid Pattaya like the plague, it's a horrible dump to boot and has nothing good going for it. Bangkok or Chiang Mai are the places to be though I find CM a bit quiet and boring for my liking.
      Yeah I agree. Bangkok is an intense city. A little exhausting for my taste (so much buzz!) but terribly fun!

      I also agree with Pattaya, along with other spots around the country: the sex tourism and drunken backpackers have pushed the limits. It's a shame because it's truly one of the most beautiful and exotic countries in the world, but sometimes it feels a bit "overcooked". Non the less, I still find myself coming back every second year for the kick of it
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Fleming
    Sorry to hear about your bad experience over here.

    I've been here for 10 years and never really had anything quite so dramatic. Then again I tend to stick to my area which is pretty urban so not so many creepy crawlies. I did once have a 4 ft lizard in my garden which scared the dogs a bit and had me running around with a broom... I looked like some crazed old woman chasing the thing around the garden

    The only embarrassing toilet issue I ever have is when I eat pork. I learned that lesson very quickly and just avoid pork. It's not really much of a hardship and when I consider the many benefits I get from living here... seems inconsequential really.

    Moving here was the best thing I've ever done and I won't be leaving any time soon.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author loganwenger
    Originally Posted by NoobSensei View Post

    Hi all,

    I'm an American and I'm considering moving abroad to a low-cost country to reduce my expenses while I create and market my first information product. I want to devote my full-time energy to this project (i.e. not hold a regular job), but I don't think it's financially feasible for me to do it while living in the United States with an oppressively large amount of student debt hanging over my head. I'm hoping that moving to a low-cost country will allow me to make ends meet for a while, until the money starts coming in.

    I was wondering if any Americans here had experience with living in a low-cost country while working on internet marketing. What countries are good for this? Are immigration/residency requirements a major hassle, if you're just doing your own thing online rather than "working"?

    Also, I find US income tax law to be extremely confusing when it comes to expatriates and online income. Do you need to pay income taxes (to either country) on your online income if you're an American living abroad?

    Thanks for your help. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

    I'm a US citizen whom has lived in China for the past eight years and "working" in IM for six years...

    China can be extremely cheap. I live in Shanghai the most expensive city in China and I saved $10,000 in 12 months. I do have a job at this point, but I am also working on my Internet Marketing venture as well.

    Unfortunately, China requires foreigners to have a job as a requirement to receive a one year visa. I married a local woman five years ago and there are times when I have not worked and I can get a on year spousal visa.

    However, China is probably not a feasible option for most. I suggest considering the Philippines, Cambodia, or Vietnam to name a few.

    It's important to research potential country's laws on foreign residents and check out these articles:

    - U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad
    - US Taxes While Living Abroad FAQ :: American Citizens Abroad (ACA)
    - Foreign Earned Income Exclusion - IRS Form 2555
    - Foreign Tax Credit - the Preferred Anti Double Taxation Tool for American Expats

    Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author tsx
    When I needed to get some serious work done (research in my case) I decided to rent an apartment in Vancouver, Canada. Turned out this is the most expensive city in North America, so my reserves started to run low pretty quickly ($6.25 for a cafe moccha, $1,700 one bedroom apartment, on nice area but pricy, etc). So I took the opportunity during the summer to go to Greece and get my work done there. I would recommend Greece. Very affordable, laid back, tons and tons of expats and tourists. I stayed in Athens but the islands are fantastic. In the off season rent prices are really low. You could probably work out a fantastic deal for 9 months on an apartment or house. Extremely safe, tourists are treated like gold. 1st world country with all the amenities. Super cheap cell phone services. Amazing weather. I was there for 6 months and would have stayed longer but my research helped me land an amazing gig with the biggest think tank in my field.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
      Banned
      Originally Posted by tsx View Post

      When I needed to get some serious work done (research in my case) I decided to rent an apartment in Vancovuer, Canada. Turned out this is the most expensive city in North America, so my reserves started to run low pretty quickly ($6.25 for a cafe moccha, $1,700 one bedroom apartment, on nice area but pricy, etc). So I took the opportunity during the summer to go to Greece and get my work done there. I would recommend Greece. Very affordable, laid back, tons and tons of expats and tourists. I stayed in Athens but the islands are fantastic. In the off season rent prices are really low. You could probably work out a fantastic deal for 9 months on an apartment or house. Extremely safe, tourists are treated like gold. 1st world country with all the amenities. Super cheap cell phone services. Amazing weather. I was there for 6 months and would have stayed longer but my research helped me land an amazing gig with the biggest think tank in my field.
      I've been to Greece a couple times for vacation, stayed in Kreta and Kos.
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    • Profile picture of the author NoobSensei
      Originally Posted by tsx View Post

      When I needed to get some serious work done (research in my case) I decided to rent an apartment in Vancouver, Canada. Turned out this is the most expensive city in North America, so my reserves started to run low pretty quickly ($6.25 for a cafe moccha, $1,700 one bedroom apartment, on nice area but pricy, etc). So I took the opportunity during the summer to go to Greece and get my work done there. I would recommend Greece. Very affordable, laid back, tons and tons of expats and tourists. I stayed in Athens but the islands are fantastic. In the off season rent prices are really low. You could probably work out a fantastic deal for 9 months on an apartment or house. Extremely safe, tourists are treated like gold. 1st world country with all the amenities. Super cheap cell phone services. Amazing weather. I was there for 6 months and would have stayed longer but my research helped me land an amazing gig with the biggest think tank in my field.
      How long ago was your Greece experience? The reason I ask is because I have a friend who lived in Athens for a few months, and he said that the country has pretty much gone to hell ever since the euro debt crisis. It may have been nice once upon a time, but (in his opinion) it wasn't anymore. Maybe he just had a bad experience though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Taiwan.

    Mark

    Edit: Maybe it was because I had overstayed my visa. I don't remember but I do remember having to borrow money from a friend to pay taxes so I could get an exit permit.
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  • Profile picture of the author jibran123456
    only US contires ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
    like a few others on here I did the research and figured the states is the best place to be. a few major issues, cost of doing business, convenience and security came up.

    why not just move to new york. remember frank sinatra always sung if you can make it there you can make it any where.
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    • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
      Why not? Because New York is ridiculously expensive, distracting, and...fun! Good luck trying to build your business when you're struggling just to pay your rent (IF you can find an apartment).

      I really don't know why people outside of the States have this idolized vision of the US. It's a messed up country in many, many ways.

      I, for one, have no plans of ever returning for anything beyond a visit, or MAYBE a stint in a sexy Manhattan loft when I'm doing REALLY well.

      Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

      like a few others on here I did the research and figured the states is the best place to be. a few major issues, cost of doing business, convenience and security came up.

      why not just move to new york. remember frank sinatra always sung if you can make it there you can make it any where.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gonzosan
        Originally Posted by Steve Fleming View Post

        Sorry to hear about your bad experience over here.

        I've been here for 10 years and never really had anything quite so dramatic. Then again I tend to stick to my area which is pretty urban so not so many creepy crawlies. I did once have a 4 ft lizard in my garden which scared the dogs a bit and had me running around with a broom... I looked like some crazed old woman chasing the thing around the garden

        The only embarrassing toilet issue I ever have is when I eat pork. I learned that lesson very quickly and just avoid pork. It's not really much of a hardship and when I consider the many benefits I get from living here... seems inconsequential really.

        Moving here was the best thing I've ever done and I won't be leaving any time soon.

        Steve
        It wasn't really a bad experience but it was my second time visiting the Philippines. I was getting married down there to my wife who is a local down there. Coming from the US to a third world country takes it's toll on you. Last time I was there I had no issues but I was only there a few weeks. This time it was a month and we travelled to a lot of different places.

        Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

        You have to pick the good from the rotten apples.

        There's a whole lot of discussions going on online about many countries. Most folks who relocate in the Philippines are retired males above age 50.
        I've met up with all sorts of guys, but most where more than twice as old as I am. lol

        There are very few western women who settle down in this country, so to speak.

        Regarding satellite connections: I assume you are referring to TV? The Philippines is a definite developing country, a country that has a lot to offer in terms of natural beauty, but not so much in terms of technology.
        It's true. My wife would like to live in the Philippines but I just don't see it as a feasible option for what I want to do with my online business. It's very beautiful but they still have a long way to go before technology is mainstream down there. We went around to some "nice" parts of the country but in terms of lifestyle they live very simple. I'm sure I could get a nice house down there, but it does no good if the country around you is quite poor.


        Originally Posted by Sherrill R View Post

        How is Philippines?
        I heard that Filipinos speak English fluently like a native speaker.
        Why don't you recommend Philippines
        Most filipinos know English hence why it's a good place to retire for expats. For the most part it's a fairly safe country and filipinos are very friendly and nice people. The Philippines is a third world country. It's cheap, but it's cheap for a reason. You can eat for like $3 a meal, or even cheaper depending on what you like to eat. Hell when I was on my honeymoon in Palawan (Puerto Princesa) I was staying at a hotel for 7 days and it only cost me $150 total. This was a pretty nice hotel too, comparable to western standards, it was just small. It's a nice place to visit as it has many beautiful islands and it's nice that you can do a lot with a little bit of money but it's all relative.
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      • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
        Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

        Why not? Because New York is ridiculously expensive, distracting, and...fun! Good luck trying to build your business when you're struggling just to pay your rent (IF you can find an apartment).

        I really don't know why people outside of the States have this idolized vision of the US. It's a messed up country in many, many ways.

        I, for one, have no plans of ever returning for anything beyond a visit, or MAYBE a stint in a sexy Manhattan loft when I'm doing REALLY well.
        You're missing the whole point. Of course NY is fun, expensive and distracting. The point is if things are expensive you know you have to put in work, if there are distractions you learn how to focus, and find ways to accomplish things without working so hard like outsourcing parts of your tasks.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

          You're missing the whole point. Of course NY is fun, expensive and distracting. The point is if things are expensive you know you have to put in work, if there are distractions you learn how to focus, and find ways to accomplish things without working so hard like outsourcing parts of your tasks.
          100% guaranteed, most people who created wealth did it in an environment that was conducive for wealth creation. A high pressure and uncomfortable environment are not part of the equation. You are much less likely to make money if you are under financial and mental pressure.

          There's a big difference between everyday distractions (like wife, the web, phone, pets), and ongoing pressure (high rental, loans, low paying job).
          You are much more likely to control everyday distractions - distractions that every person has regardless of residence, than ongoing pressure.
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          • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
            Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

            100% guaranteed, most people who created wealth did it in an environment that was conducive for wealth creation. A high pressure and uncomfortable environment are not part of the equation. You are much less likely to make money if you are under financial and mental pressure.

            There's a big difference between everyday distractions (like wife, the web, phone, pets), and ongoing pressure (high rental, loans, low paying job).
            You are much more likely to control everyday distractions - distractions that every person has regardless of residence, than ongoing pressure.
            I don't know who you've been talking to, but many of your most successful come from being poor. It's how they became what they are, nothing like homelessness to make someone get their acts together.
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            • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

              I don't know who you've been talking to, but many of your most successful come from being poor. It's how they became what they are, nothing like homelessness to make someone get their acts together.
              I take my life as an example and the lives of many 6 figure and 7 figure earners I have worked with.

              Most people talk about making money. Few of them actually make money. Fewer really keep money.
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              • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
                Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

                I take my life as an example and the lives of many 6 figure and 7 figure earners I have worked with.

                Most people talk about making money. Few of them actually make money. Fewer really keep money.
                That's the problem with the world today to many think that the world revolves around them and any experience outside of theirs doesn't exist.

                We're all human here and all have different experiences. Some will be more aggressive when they surround themselves with the material, some will get lazy. Some are more aggressive when they hit bottom, some are more aggressive when they have all the little tools they need. It all depends upon the person.

                I could care less about 6 or 7 figures what's more important is what people are saying after all merchant type business is the lowest form in the world and most of the wealthy probably won't bother to be mentioned in Forbes.
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                • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

                  That's the problem with the world today to many think that the world revolves around them and any experience outside of theirs doesn't exist.

                  We're all human here and all have different experiences. Some will be more aggressive when they surround themselves with the material, some will get lazy. Some are more aggressive when they hit bottom, some are more aggressive when they have all the little tools they need. It all depends upon the person.

                  I could care less about 6 or 7 figures what's more important is what people are saying after all merchant type business is the lowest form in the world and most of the wealthy probably won't bother to be mentioned in Forbes.
                  It doesn't matter whether you accomplish your goals in your home country or abroad. It's irrelevant. But what DOES matter is that you achieve it.

                  If you have a different world view, that's fine. Know what motivates you and go for it, but don't let yourself hold back from anything or anybody.

                  One thing is certain; in case you should make it, nothing else matters. I like the way I've created success more than many people haven't created success. The only thing that matters is RESULTS. If you show results over and over again, the rest doesn't matter.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
                    Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

                    It doesn't matter whether you accomplish your goals in your home country or abroad. It's irrelevant. But what DOES matter is that you achieve it.

                    If you have a different world view, that's fine. Know what motivates you and go for it, but don't let yourself hold back from anything or anybody.

                    One thing is certain; in case you should make it, nothing else matters. I like the way I've created success more than many people haven't created success. The only thing that matters is RESULTS. If you show results over and over again, the rest doesn't matter.

                    I've never said anything about home country or abroad. I just mentioned that sometimes abroad can be dangerous for outsiders.

                    As far as making I've already made it lolol. Like I said your probably is assuming things from your own view rather than seeing what's right in front of you.

                    And like I said rather than going by what you think try listening to what people are saying.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

                      I've never said anything about home country or abroad. I just mentioned that sometimes abroad can be dangerous for outsiders.

                      As far as making I've already made it lolol. Like I said your probably is assuming things from your own view rather than seeing what's right in front of you.

                      And like I said rather than going by what you think try listening to what people are saying.
                      Yeah, as much as living in your home country can be dangerous, or shopping groceries. That's not the point here at all.

                      The point is that you should create success. That's it. If you keep talking about it but can't make it happen, something is wrong.

                      Talk once you created results in life, this is when the story is authentic.

                      I don't go by what I think. I go by what works. If I see that someone has problems with creating success due to an outdated mindset, I will tell him how to get rid of it and replace it with the updated version.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
                        Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

                        Yeah, as much as living in your home country can be dangerous, or shopping groceries. That's not the point here at all.

                        The point is that you should create success. That's it. If you keep talking about it but can't make it happen, something is wrong.

                        Talk once you created results in life, this is when the story is authentic.

                        I don't go by what I think. I go by what works. If I see that someone has problems with creating success due to an outdated mindset, I will tell him how to get rid of it and replace it with the updated version.
                        well, I guess you should know being closed minded is way way out dated.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

                          well, I guess you should know being closed minded is way way out dated.
                          Oh Walter, I didn't know about it. Thanks for bringing light to the end of the funnel :p
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          • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
            Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

            100% guaranteed, most people who created wealth did it in an environment that was conducive for wealth creation. A high pressure and uncomfortable environment are not part of the equation. You are much less likely to make money if you are under financial and mental pressure.

            There's a big difference between everyday distractions (like wife, the web, phone, pets), and ongoing pressure (high rental, loans, low paying job).
            You are much more likely to control everyday distractions - distractions that every person has regardless of residence, than ongoing pressure.
            I will agree big time with this.

            People severely underestimate how stressful it is to be poor and particularly how it is to be poor - abroad. F*ck me if I am going to stay in a 6000 baht studio in a heavily polluted, likely very trafficked part of Bangkok and never having a monent of rest.

            For me, the less stuff I have to deal with mentally in a stressful manner, the much more productive I am.

            That's why I live in a quiet side street of Thonglor in Bangkok and can walk to the japanese supermarket or the tennis club and back without any stress. I think many understimate just how stressful a city like Bangkok or Manila is to get around in, the noise, the heat, the pollution, the scams. If you're already on a tight budget and in a bedsit, then your life quality can quickly deteriorate.

            I live in Bangkok now, comfortably, and better than the average middle class back home, but once I take my biz to the next level (100K+ year), then I'm moving asap to Singapore or Hong Kong (if the housing bubble has burst).

            These tropical low cost paradises are not conductive to serious business. Way too much stuff has to be dealt with due to incompetence or lack of quality. For me, the deciding factor against Bangkok is the ugliness of the city, the insane heat, the pollution and the lack of English spoken. I will try to learn Thai, but I really can't justify it as my 4th language when there is Japanese, Chinese and Spanish for me to learn.

            I will strongly advise against moving to Thailand broke if you plan on making some biz progress. You can move here broke if you just want to party for a couple of months or so and you're prepared to go home on short notice.

            But for setting up a stable and inspiring base of operation, I would personally budget something like at least 3K USD a month.

            And please remember to get health insurance BEFORE you get here.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kiljan
              Hello everyone - I am new here so it will be my first post.

              Most of you live in USA, Canada, Australia, European Union or other well-developed country like Japan.

              Here you have a lot of convenience - which sometimes you even do not notice, for example high speed Internet connection, the best medical care ( I mean that you have access to all drugs/therapies as first), high safety norms (airplanes, airports ...).

              When you live in very poor country you have to worry about your own security (Egypt is best example now), low Internet connection, insets (even on Canary Islands there are cockroaches in most of the hotels because they are in sewage system), food quality, tolerance (for example religious) and more.

              Here in developed countries we have higher standards and I do not think that poor countries will quickly develop enough to be on the same level as we are.
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            • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
              Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

              I will agree big time with this.

              People severely underestimate how stressful it is to be poor and particularly how it is to be poor - abroad. F*ck me if I am going to stay in a 6000 baht studio in a heavily polluted, likely very trafficked part of Bangkok and never having a monent of rest.

              For me, the less stuff I have to deal with mentally in a stressful manner, the much more productive I am.

              That's why I live in a quiet side street of Thonglor in Bangkok and can walk to the japanese supermarket or the tennis club and back without any stress. I think many understimate just how stressful a city like Bangkok or Manila is to get around in, the noise, the heat, the pollution, the scams. If you're already on a tight budget and in a bedsit, then your life quality can quickly deteriorate.

              I live in Bangkok now, comfortably, and better than the average middle class back home, but once I take my biz to the next level (100K+ year), then I'm moving asap to Singapore or Hong Kong (if the housing bubble has burst).

              These tropical low cost paradises are not conductive to serious business. Way too much stuff has to be dealt with due to incompetence or lack of quality. For me, the deciding factor against Bangkok is the ugliness of the city, the insane heat, the pollution and the lack of English spoken. I will try to learn Thai, but I really can't justify it as my 4th language when there is Japanese, Chinese and Spanish for me to learn.

              I will strongly advise against moving to Thailand broke if you plan on making some biz progress. You can move here broke if you just want to party for a couple of months or so and you're prepared to go home on short notice.

              But for setting up a stable and inspiring base of operation, I would personally budget something like at least 3K USD a month.

              And please remember to get health insurance BEFORE you get here.

              Yeah anyone staying in a 6k apartment isn't living very well. ThongLor is a nice area to live in and some good clubs around there too.

              No one moves to BKK expecting it to be beautiful. It's ugly but it's ******* brilliant at the same time. Singapore and HK are boring as shit, something that can never be said about BKK. English is spoken less than HK and Singapore but I wouldn't say there's a lack of it spoken in BKK, I find a lot of people do even away from the obvious tourist traps.

              I agree 3k a month is a good budget. You can do it on half but you'll have to watch the money and not get carried away;
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              • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
                Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

                Yeah anyone staying in a 6k apartment isn't living very well. ThongLor is a nice area to live in and some good clubs around there too.

                No one moves to BKK expecting it to be beautiful. It's ugly but it's ******* brilliant at the same time. Singapore and HK are boring as shit, something that can never be said about BKK. English is spoken less than HK and Singapore but I wouldn't say there's a lack of it spoken in BKK, I find a lot of people do even away from the obvious tourist traps.

                I agree 3k a month is a good budget. You can do it on half but you'll have to watch the money and not get carried away;
                I like Bangkok a lot, but the noise and ugliness gets to me. It didn't really use to bother me that much, but maybe after I turned 30 I went into old man mode. The biggest factor though is probably the language. I find the tonal aspect very difficult and I really don't enjoy not being able to have a conversation with whoever I choose. It's very limiting.

                Anyway, if you live in Singapore, Bangkok is only 2 hours away for weekend partying. I doubt I would move to Singapore without a job though, preferably part time. I can imagine it has a more 9-5 feel than Bangkok and you might get bored when everyone else is at work.
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            • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
              Banned
              Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

              I will agree big time with this.

              People severely underestimate how stressful it is to be poor and particularly how it is to be poor - abroad. F*ck me if I am going to stay in a 6000 baht studio in a heavily polluted, likely very trafficked part of Bangkok and never having a monent of rest.

              For me, the less stuff I have to deal with mentally in a stressful manner, the much more productive I am.

              That's why I live in a quiet side street of Thonglor in Bangkok and can walk to the japanese supermarket or the tennis club and back without any stress. I think many understimate just how stressful a city like Bangkok or Manila is to get around in, the noise, the heat, the pollution, the scams. If you're already on a tight budget and in a bedsit, then your life quality can quickly deteriorate.

              I live in Bangkok now, comfortably, and better than the average middle class back home, but once I take my biz to the next level (100K+ year), then I'm moving asap to Singapore or Hong Kong (if the housing bubble has burst).

              These tropical low cost paradises are not conductive to serious business. Way too much stuff has to be dealt with due to incompetence or lack of quality. For me, the deciding factor against Bangkok is the ugliness of the city, the insane heat, the pollution and the lack of English spoken. I will try to learn Thai, but I really can't justify it as my 4th language when there is Japanese, Chinese and Spanish for me to learn.

              I will strongly advise against moving to Thailand broke if you plan on making some biz progress. You can move here broke if you just want to party for a couple of months or so and you're prepared to go home on short notice.

              But for setting up a stable and inspiring base of operation, I would personally budget something like at least 3K USD a month.

              And please remember to get health insurance BEFORE you get here.
              Kuala Lumpur is fantastic. There are hardly people who are not fluent in English. What I like most about Malaysia is that you can get an extremely solid internet connection in many cities, not just in KL.

              In East Malaysia you can live very well for $1,500, in fact you can go on holiday each month if you want to. The downside is that it's a quite slow area when compared with KL. Nonetheless, what we all need is a social circle which is hard to find in smaller cities in SE Asia. I can't hang out with the locals or I become one
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  • Profile picture of the author tomerep
    Personally, I consider moving to countries like Thailand. I don't like the pacing in US. Always on a rush! I want to break the stress.. Aside from that, the cost of living expenses in Thailand is cheaper.
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    I am fascinated with the possibility of living a more nomadic lifestyle. Not so much resettling permanently in one place, but exploring lots of places. A site that has lots of info on becoming a "digital nomad" (focuses a lot on Thailand) is:
    Cody McKibben: Digital Nomadic Entrepreneur, Permanent Traveler & Lifestyle Designer
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    • Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

      I am fascinated with the possibility of living a more nomadic lifestyle. Not so much resettling permanently in one place, but exploring lots of places.
      I tried this a few years back... nomadic lifestyle while building my online business... it didn't work.

      At the very most, I could manage and sustain the projects that had already been implemented and that were already rolling, but it was impossible to grow/build/expand while on the road: too many distractions, too many down times, too many places with shaky internet connection, etc.

      Eventually I realized that, at least for me, business expansion meant staying put and focus (and then take some months off on holidays). But the whole work+travel? nah, not sustainable.
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      • Profile picture of the author bobynbbird
        I can't live anywhere but California! I'd get depressed like a motha if I moved anywhere else
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    • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
      Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

      I am fascinated with the possibility of living a more nomadic lifestyle. Not so much resettling permanently in one place, but exploring lots of places. A site that has lots of info on becoming a "digital nomad" (focuses a lot on Thailand) is:
      Cody McKibben: Digital Nomadic Entrepreneur, Permanent Traveler & Lifestyle Designer
      I've been friends with Cody the last couple of years. He's a sharp cat that's committed to this lifestyle and has been doing quite well with it. He's well connected in the Lifestyle Design community.

      He has a course you might be interested in if this is your thing...check out Digital Nomad Academy if you'd like to follow this path.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    I think the big thing to consider when even considering such a thing is that the cost of living is just one attribute a person needs to consider.

    You can live damn cheap in the USA or Europe if you want...especially single folks. You can chose not to participate in the "keeping up with the jones" game if that is what you choose to do.

    But there are lots of things to consider when even contemplating moving thousands of miles from what you call home and are currently comfortable with. Cost of living is just one of those.

    In the recent decade or so many of the "developing" countries mentioned in this thread have largely become developed..at least in pockets. That means that just like in the usa, you can choose to live the new york city lifestyle or the man under the bridge lifestyle...or almost anywhere in between in most of the countries mentioned here.

    I recently watch a home buying show where an american guy was buying a good sized house in thailand for something like $6,000 a month. Thats way more than most usa houses sell for per month.
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    • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
      That's a good point, David.

      You can live in 'the sticks' cheaply just about anywhere.

      But it's when you compare the bigger cities that the difference is stark. You can live well in Bangkok for $1000/mo and it's just as cosmopolitan and happening and interesting as a place like New York (in its own way of course).

      $1000/mo in NYC will buy coffee for a week.

      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      I think the big thing to consider when even considering such a thing is that the cost of living is just one attribute a person needs to consider.

      You can live damn cheap in the USA or Europe if you want...especially single folks. You can chose not to participate in the "keeping up with the jones" game if that is what you choose to do.

      But there are lots of things to consider when even contemplating moving thousands of miles from what you call home and are currently comfortable with. Cost of living is just one of those.

      In the recent decade or so many of the "developing" countries mentioned in this thread have largely become developed..at least in pockets. That means that just like in the usa, you can choose to live the new york city lifestyle or the man under the bridge lifestyle...or almost anywhere in between in most of the countries mentioned here.

      I recently watch a home buying show where an american guy was buying a good sized house in thailand for something like $6,000 a month. Thats way more than most usa houses sell for per month.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
        Banned
        Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

        That's a good point, David.

        You can live in 'the sticks' cheaply just about anywhere.

        But it's when you compare the bigger cities that the difference is stark. You can live well in Bangkok for $1000/mo and it's just as cosmopolitan and happening and interesting as a place like New York (in its own way of course).

        $1000/mo in NYC will buy coffee for a week.
        Personal values and fear of change keep people stuck in their country, which can be a good or bad thing depending on how you progress.

        I never want to spend more than 20% of what I make (net profit) on my lifestyle. Spending all that you make on your lifestyle is certainly not smart.

        Let's say you make $120k a year and live in New York City. You probably spend at least $50,000 if not more on your lifestyle. You have at least $35,000 in taxes, and spend $30,000 in advertising, personal assistant, tools, etc.

        I think you get the picture. There's nothing to very little left in your bank account at the end of the year.

        If you spend that much on yourself and have that much in taxes, the question is: What do you work for?

        Do you just work for a fun lifestyle because you don't see other possibilities?

        Smart marketers focus on retained earnings and growth, and certainly NOT just their lifestyle. That allows them to secure wealth for the next years, possibly for a lifetime.

        In case something unexpected should happen, you got enough money and resources to build a new business or rebuild the old one.

        If I wanted I can take off an entire month now and live in the jungle, and when I come back I got more money in my bank account than before I left.

        You can spend all your hard earned money or save/reinvest it. It's your choice. That's really basic stuff that you learn in school and from your parents, but still TOO many people get this wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    I love the buzz of BKK. I like the nightlife, it's literally 7 days a week, with tons of different options, scenes and music types. Only place I've been that beats it in terms of nightlife is Sao Paulo, it's 7 days a week and 24/7 there.

    Yeah the backpackers annoy me a little too but easily avoided.
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    • Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

      Yeah the backpackers annoy me a little too but easily avoided.
      It's not really the backpackers what annoys me (I was a hardcore backpacker myself in my 20s) but rather their attitude... you know, going out traveling to the other corner of the world just to get pissed out of your tits every evening on cheap beer never made much sense to me really.

      Oh well, I'm probably just getting old...
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      • Profile picture of the author Gonzosan
        Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

        I am fascinated with the possibility of living a more nomadic lifestyle. Not so much resettling permanently in one place, but exploring lots of places. A site that has lots of info on becoming a "digital nomad" (focuses a lot on Thailand) is:
        Cody McKibben: Digital Nomadic Entrepreneur, Permanent Traveler & Lifestyle Designer
        That's what I would like to do myself. It's the reason that attracts me to doing business online. I'd love to take extended vacations in different parts of the world. I'm considering selling off everything I own to go live with my wife for a bit in the Philippines then go off to live in other countries. I also have family in Spain so I might go there afterward.
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      • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
        Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

        It's not really the backpackers what annoys me (I was a hardcore backpacker myself in my 20s) but rather their attitude... you know, going out traveling to the other corner of the world just to get pissed out of your tits every evening on cheap beer never made much sense to me really.

        Oh well, I'm probably just getting old...
        Yeah I did the backpacker thing for years when younger too, all over the world. The things that annoy me about them I probably did too, but still.
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        • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
          You can live damn cheap in the USA or Europe if you want...especially single folks. You can chose not to participate in the "keeping up with the jones" game if that is what you choose to do.
          This is so true. My husband and I live four months a year in Maui (Hawaii) and intend to move there full-time in a few years. Our cost of living in Maui is WAY lower than back home in New England. We're on a small island, so we spend next to nothing on gas and car maintenance. We don't have to pay for heat. We need next to no clothing (bathing suit, shorts, flippers, running shoes and a few Tshirts). We don't spend anything on entertainment since the beach is a one-minute walk away and we swim every day. We buy local fruits and vegetables (scrumptious!) and don't eat out often.

          I am sure most people won't believe that you could save money by living in Hawaii, but for us it is true!

          Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author webcosmo
    If it`s just for saving money, forget it. If you pass the language/culture barriers, then legal and financial ones, it will end up costing you way more than staying home and dedicationg yourself to your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author WeavingThoughts
    Life aint cheap.

    I live in New Delhi in India.

    And if you want to enjoy the standard of living that you enjoy in USA, then believe me USA is the cheapest place in the world.

    I could easily afford Haggen Daaz with every meal at US pricing. But in India it costs 3-4x as much. Same for coffee or chocolates or cereal or even Hard Rock cafe.

    Unless you want to live like the avg joe of a small town abroad, life ain't cheaper.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by WeavingThoughts View Post

      I could easily afford Haggen Daaz with every meal at US pricing. But in India it costs 3-4x as much.
      On the other hand, if you want a bindhi bajhi with some sag aloo, that costs four times as much in Greenwhich Village.

      No great surprise there, I think?
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      Originally Posted by WeavingThoughts View Post


      And if you want to enjoy the standard of living that you enjoy in USA, then believe me USA is the cheapest place in the world.
      For some people it's not about having a high standard of living.

      It's about being able to work on their business 24/7 without needing to work. If people are more interested in buying fancy ice cream than building a business then cool.

      If someone had $10,000 they could easily live in a place like Thailand for a year while working on their future ice cream fund.
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      • Profile picture of the author wesd22
        Originally Posted by fin View Post

        If someone had $10,000 they could easily live in a place like Thailand for a year while working on their future ice cream fund.
        That comes out to ~$800 a month. Or $200 a week.

        So, for $800 a month - not including any potential taxes - you're saying a person can easily live in Thailand?

        Can you please break down the costs? You know, rent, internet, transportation, utilities, phone, etc.

        And don't forget entertainment/dining/clothes expenses, because we need to be realistic here about how humans want to live. We're not monks after all.

        Oh and please name the city. No one wants to live in some rural village in the middle of the jungle. We're coming from a first world country.
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        • Profile picture of the author fin
          Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

          That comes out to ~$800 a month. Or $200 a week.

          So, for $800 a month - not including any potential taxes - you're saying a person can easily live in Thailand?

          Can you please break down the costs? You know, rent, internet, transportation, utilities, phone, etc.

          And don't forget entertainment/dining/clothes expenses, because we need to be realistic here about how humans want to live. We're not monks after all.

          Oh and please name the city. No one wants to live in some rural village in the middle of the jungle. We're coming from a first world country.
          Rent $250
          Electricity $50
          Scooter $120
          Food $1-2 per meal
          Internet $20
          Clothes $4 a t-shirt

          City = Anywhere outside of BKK

          You have to be careful talking about entertainment, because when you're trying to build a business at home will you honestly go out multiple times per week and eat at fancy restaurants?

          Surely you can bring enough clothes to last you a year and you can maybe buy a few things along the way.
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          • Profile picture of the author wesd22
            Originally Posted by fin View Post

            Rent $250
            Electricity $50
            Scooter $120
            Food $1-2 per meal
            Internet $20
            Clothes $4 a t-shirt

            City = Anywhere outside of BKK
            $250 a month for rent?

            You just lost all credibility.
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            • Profile picture of the author Gonzosan
              Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

              $250 a month for rent?

              You just lost all credibility.

              I don't think that's really out there, but you can't expect much for $250. People always seem to say "I can live out here for XX" amount but you have to look at how they're actually living.

              Sure you can "live" just about anywhere very cheaply but your standard of living will reflect that too. I wouldn't mind spending the same money I do now for rent and utilities overseas if it meant I'm living better than I am now.
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            • Profile picture of the author fin
              Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

              $250 a month for rent?

              You just lost all credibility.
              lol you have no idea how much that hurts.

              I don't really care whether you move to a cheaper country or not. Stay at home and build your business if you want.

              Good luck!
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            • Profile picture of the author wingmanpi
              Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

              $250 a month for rent?

              You just lost all credibility.

              $250 per month in thailand is very realistic
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              • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
                Originally Posted by wingmanpi View Post

                $250 per month in thailand is very realistic
                Chiang Mai Real Estate - Houses for Rent in Chiang Mai

                around $280 after a quick search online but your can get cheaper, for a single guy or girl this would be perfect.
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                • Profile picture of the author fin
                  Originally Posted by Stevie C View Post

                  Chiang Mai Real Estate - Houses for Rent in Chiang Mai

                  around $280 after a quick search online but your can get cheaper, for a single guy or girl this would be perfect.
                  Here is one for $260.



                  Save those poor internet marketers from what their life has become.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by fin View Post

                    Here is one for $260.



                    Save those poor internet marketers from what their life has become.
                    Is it smarter to spend $2,000 on rent if you just make $4,500?
                    Probably not!

                    That apartment is fine if you are just making $1,000 to $2,000 a month, and it would be stupid to spend $700 on rent if you are just making $1,500 a month. Really stupid!!

                    Most people make the fatal mistake to adjust their lifestyle as their income increases. It keeps them broke.
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                    • Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

                      Most people make the fatal mistake to adjust their lifestyle as their income increases. It keeps them broke.
                      Yes, unfortunately I've talked to a bunch of people who made 7-figures for years and don't have a penny in their bank account due to a top-lux lifestyle.

                      I personally agree with Gerald: no point in working your ass off, making some decent cash, and then burning it all at posh clubs and fast cars. Then again, I'm just not that type of person so I wouldn't do it no matter my income level.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Gonzosan
                        Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

                        Yes, unfortunately I've talked to a bunch of people who made 7-figures for years and don't have a penny in their bank account due to a top-lux lifestyle.

                        I personally agree with Gerald: no point in working your ass off, making some decent cash, and then burning it all at posh clubs and fast cars. Then again, I'm just not that type of person so I wouldn't do it no matter my income level.
                        I agree with this. So many people are interested in making money so that they can get bigger and better toys but they never really escape from this mentality.

                        Personally I like my current lifestyle. I have a car I enjoy (paid off) and I have a one bedroom apartment that I like living in. I'd be more interested in making money money to be able to do bigger and better things around the world. Investing in businesses that I believe in and doing things that just make life just a little bit better for everyone.
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                        • Profile picture of the author NoobSensei
                          Personally I guess I'd expect something between the standard of living of the average person in the country to which I was relocating (depending on the country), and the standard of living of the average American.

                          I don't want to be destitute, living in a third-world leaky apartment with unreliable electricity/internet where I constantly worried about personal safety or awful infectious diseases.

                          On the other hand, I'm definitely a minimalist by American standards. I wouldn't mind living in a fairly small apartment, I don't buy lots of junk, I wouldn't need a car if it's logistically feasible to go without, and I'm about 80% vegan so my food budget mostly consists of store-bought fruits/veggies/grains.

                          It seems like living that lifestyle would be doable in many of the countries people have mentioned, for a lot less money than in some cheap part of the US like Ohio.
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                    • Profile picture of the author fin
                      Originally Posted by Gerald Arno View Post

                      Is it smarter to spend $2,000 on rent if you just make $4,500?
                      Probably not!

                      That apartment is fine if you are just making $1,000 to $2,000 a month, and it would be stupid to spend $700 on rent if you are just making $1,500 a month. Really stupid!!

                      Most people make the fatal mistake to adjust their lifestyle as their income increases. It keeps them broke.
                      Yep, I agree with you.

                      I don't think an apartment like that is going to hurt anyone trying to build a business.
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  • Profile picture of the author FaisalAbdelwahed
    what I learned so far, that if you really WANT to make money, and live the life you want, you will, no matter what the economy you are in, believe me man, I live in Egypt, and I don't think of a worse economy specially these days after 25 January revolution, and the full collapsing of the COUNTRY !

    just start with any self-help program, specially any one regarding your limiting beliefs, I am myself a law of attraction coach, if you needed anything, just tell me,
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    That comes out to ~$800 a month. Or $200 a week.

    So, for $800 a month - not including any potential taxes - you're saying a person can easily live in Thailand?

    Can you please break down the costs? You know, rent, internet, transportation, utilities, phone, etc.

    And don't forget entertainment/dining/clothes expenses, because we need to be realistic here about how humans want to live. We're not monks after all.

    Oh and please name the city. No one wants to live in some rural village in the middle of the jungle. We're coming from a first world country
    People throw out some crazy figures about how cheap you can live in Thailand. I saw a blog post by one guy who claimed that you can live like a VIP in BKK for $500 per month then I read about how he was living...shared apartment and sleeping on a mattress on a floor, no air con, thai style toilet, out in the sticks, eating only street food 3 times per day, entertainment involved walking the streets and socialising consisted of 2 bottles of beer once per month on the street.

    You need to be careful about how people are actually living when they state you can live for X per month because often they are living a much worse standard of life than they would back home and surely the point of moving to Thailand is so that you can live a higher standard of living due to the cheapness.

    I've lived in BKK before and I couldn't and wouldn't live there for under $1,500 per month and that would be watching the budget. Though I'd be partying and dating multiple times per week, treating myself to Western food a few times per week, drinking a lot, living in a swish apartment with access to gym and pool.

    Thailand is cheap but if you want to live like a rockstar the costs start adding up.
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    • Profile picture of the author Unity96387
      The lowest cost countries are Ecuador and Thailand. If I had a choice I would go to Chile or Uruguay.
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      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by Unity96387 View Post

        The lowest cost countries are Ecuador and Thailand. If I had a choice I would go to Chile or Uruguay.
        Nah, the lowest cost countries are probably in Africa. Try Somalia. Heard the weather's pretty warm there.

        In all seriousness, Thailand is cheap but not the cheapest. Three countries which surround Thailand are all cheaper. Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar.
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        • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
          Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

          Nah, the lowest cost countries are probably in Africa. Try Somalia. Heard the weather's pretty warm there.

          In all seriousness, Thailand is cheap but not the cheapest. Three countries which surround Thailand are all cheaper. Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar.
          You would be surprised at how expensive it is to live in some of these African Countries as a westerner

          I'm not sure if Laos or Burma would be much cheaper than Thailand either and Burma would be a real problem to get a decent internet connection, Cambodia maybe.

          I think Thailand ticks the right boxes as it is reasonably cheap and has a pretty good infrastructure.
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          • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
            Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

            Nah, the lowest cost countries are probably in Africa. Try Somalia. Heard the weather's pretty warm there.

            In all seriousness, Thailand is cheap but not the cheapest. Three countries which surround Thailand are all cheaper. Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar.
            Those countries aren't much if at all cheaper if you want to live a decent standard of life. In Thailand you can live with Western comforts for quite cheap but the other places not so much. I always spend more when in Laos & Cambodia than I do in Thailand for accomodation, food, drinks etc just to get the same standard.

            Originally Posted by fin View Post

            It's probably why most people end up back in their mom's basement.

            What fool would want to live a rock star life before they built a successful business?

            And if someone had a successful business don't you think they would have a lot more than 1.5K per month to spare?
            The point is that 1.5k is the lowest you'd be able to live there at. More is better. For someone starting out who's making a bit of money online and wants to cut their costs from back home then Thailand is the ideal place to be.

            You gotta live life now, no point in working hard all your life on the gamble that one day in the far off future you'll be able to cash in your chips and live the dream then...it might never come.

            Originally Posted by Stevie C View Post

            You would be surprised at how expensive it is to live in some of these African Countries as a westerner

            I'm not sure if Laos or Burma would be much cheaper than Thailand either and Burma would be a real problem to get a decent internet connection, Cambodia maybe.

            I think Thailand ticks the right boxes as it is reasonably cheap and has a pretty good infrastructure.
            Exactly Thailand has all the right things going for it where as the others have problems. Not sure what the deal as a foreigner living in Burma is anyway.
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        • Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

          Nah, the lowest cost countries are probably in Africa.
          You'd be surprised how expensive Africa actually is, at least most countries you'd expect to be cheap. No idea why.

          Cheapest in my experience were Andenean countries (Bolivia, Equador, etc) and some Asian countries (Cambodya, Laos, etc). I also found some arab countries pretty cheap (Syria, Jordan, Morocco).

          BUT, like someone else said above, developing countries are cheap if you're willing to live under local standards (3rd-world standards). If you want to live under 1st-world standards, trust me you will be paying close to 1st-world prices. You see, in most developing countries there's not a widely established middle class like in Europe/USA: it's either you're poor or you're wealthy, and as a result prices are bi-polarized too.
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      Originally Posted by RockingLastsForever View Post

      Thailand is cheap but if you want to live like a rockstar the costs start adding up.
      It's probably why most people end up back in their mom's basement.

      What fool would want to live a rock star life before they built a successful business?

      And if someone had a successful business don't you think they would have a lot more than 1.5K per month to spare?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    I can't live anywhere but California! I'd get depressed like a motha if I moved anywhere else
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  • Profile picture of the author PROBIZ7777
    What the other person was afraid to ask! I'm curious. I have read all the answers in this message series. Right now there are 50 posts, but ONLY 22 show a location. Does anybody know why?
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    • Profile picture of the author alksense
      Originally Posted by PROBIZ7777 View Post

      What the other person was afraid to ask! I'm curious. I have read all the answers in this message series. Right now there are 50 posts, but ONLY 22 show a location. Does anybody know why?
      I'm leaving for Thailand in less than two weeks. I'm not going for low cost living but more so to experience the culture. I'll be living Chiang Mai, Bangkok and on the islands while I'm there (I'm staying for 90 days) and I will be working a few hours per day on my IM businesses as well as blogging about my trip. I'll share videos, pics and prices of what I'm doing/where I'm staying so hopefully that will help you and others out

      Anton
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    • Profile picture of the author Stevie C
      Originally Posted by PROBIZ7777 View Post

      What the other person was afraid to ask! I'm curious. I have read all the answers in this message series. Right now there are 50 posts, but ONLY 22 show a location. Does anybody know why?
      Maybe they are just lazy like me - I never got round to setting my location in my profile will change it today
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    Originally Posted by NoobSensei View Post

    Hi all,

    I'm an American and I'm considering moving abroad to a low-cost country to reduce my expenses while I create and market my first information product. I want to devote my full-time energy to this project (i.e. not hold a regular job), but I don't think it's financially feasible for me to do it while living in the United States with an oppressively large amount of student debt hanging over my head. I'm hoping that moving to a low-cost country will allow me to make ends meet for a while, until the money starts coming in.

    I was wondering if any Americans here had experience with living in a low-cost country while working on internet marketing. What countries are good for this? Are immigration/residency requirements a major hassle, if you're just doing your own thing online rather than "working"?

    Also, I find US income tax law to be extremely confusing when it comes to expatriates and online income. Do you need to pay income taxes (to either country) on your online income if you're an American living abroad?

    Thanks for your help. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.
    This might be the weirdest question I've ever seen on this forum...

    First, the cost of moving to another country is more than you're likely to spend living here in a month or two.

    Second, your student loan debt doesn't magically disappear if you leave the country - you still owe the money. If you need to defer paying it, you can do that while you're here.

    Third, as a U.S. Citizen you would still be required to pay U.S. taxes on your income even if you aren't living here, at least up to $96k or so.

    It's easier to freeload in the United States than any other country in the world. Just look at all of the people who voted for Obama.

    Stick it out. Start slowly, build up to a few hundred bucks a month, and continue grow from there. It isn't difficult.
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    • Profile picture of the author NoobSensei
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      This might be the weirdest question I've ever seen on this forum...
      Well it's generated plenty of responses from plenty of people who have done the same thing, so it can't be that weird.

      First, the cost of moving to another country is more than you're likely to spend living here in a month or two.
      Other than the cost of a plane ticket, a couple carryon bags, a taxi from the airport, and whatever legal paperwork I need to do, there aren't going to be that many costs associated with moving. There might be other flaws with the plan, but I don't see how it wouldn't be cost-effective. The cost of a plane ticket to Central America is only a few hundred dollars, and to Southeast Asia it's less than a thousand. Compare that to the $1,400 per month I'm plunking down *just on rent* here in Washington DC.

      Second, your student loan debt doesn't magically disappear if you leave the country - you still owe the money. If you need to defer paying it, you can do that while you're here.
      The point is that I don't *want* to defer it and collect even more interest on it. I want to keep paying down my debt, but I also want to leave my job to pursue internet marketing full-time...and I can't do both of those things while living in the United States (at least not until I start earning some serious $$$ from my information product).

      I'm going to be taking a big pay cut if I leave my job to pursue internet marketing full time, so I'd like to cut my expenses to the bone so I can use what little money I have to continue paying off my debt...or at least be able to pay the monthly interest.

      Third, as a U.S. Citizen you would still be required to pay U.S. taxes on your income even if you aren't living here, at least up to $96k or so.
      You have it backwards. You're only required to pay US taxes on your foreign-earned income beyond $96K. What's confusing to me is what qualifies as "foreign-earned income."

      It's easier to freeload in the United States than any other country in the world. Just look at all of the people who voted for Obama.
      :rolleyes:

      Stick it out. Start slowly, build up to a few hundred bucks a month, and continue grow from there. It isn't difficult.
      Building up to a few hundred bucks a month is simply not enough to be able to do this full time. Especially if I'm living in the United States.
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    • Profile picture of the author Meharis
      [QUOTE=ronrule;7963539]

      Third, as a U.S. Citizen you would still be required to pay U.S. taxes on your income even if you aren't living here, at least up to $96k or so.QUOTE]

      Not so. The other way around.
      You'll have to pay if you make Above $96k.
      That's the beauty of it...

      Meharis
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  • Profile picture of the author DTGeorge
    Originally Posted by NoobSensei View Post

    Hi all,

    I'm an American and I'm considering moving abroad to a low-cost country to reduce my expenses while I create and market my first information product. I want to devote my full-time energy to this project (i.e. not hold a regular job), but I don't think it's financially feasible for me to do it while living in the United States with an oppressively large amount of student debt hanging over my head. I'm hoping that moving to a low-cost country will allow me to make ends meet for a while, until the money starts coming in.

    I was wondering if any Americans here had experience with living in a low-cost country while working on internet marketing. What countries are good for this? Are immigration/residency requirements a major hassle, if you're just doing your own thing online rather than "working"?

    Also, I find US income tax law to be extremely confusing when it comes to expatriates and online income. Do you need to pay income taxes (to either country) on your online income if you're an American living abroad?

    Thanks for your help. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.
    If your ONLY aim is to save money, then forget it.

    Travel costs and relocation costs will take up a large proportion of your "savings"

    You'll also be spending more money than people who have lived there for years/all their lives, because you're new and won't know the best deals - in the "cheaper", less developed countries, the best deals won't be advertised online.

    There are cheap apartments everywhere in the US, as long as you look for them. Even if you don't want to spend that money, I'm sure that you have some family/friends who would take you for low cost rent.

    Also, if you're living overseas, you'll need to spend money to renew your visa, as well as other odds and ends that you wouldn't have to pay in the states.

    If you get sick, you're screwed, because you'll have to pay full price for doctors visits, medication etc. Lets not even talk about costs for surgery/operations.

    In short, if your ONLY aim is to save money, your best bet is to stay at home and find out ways to cut your costs, rather than to move abroad.
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  • Profile picture of the author wingmanpi
    in some places paying full price for medical services is not a bad deal.
    in the philippines a dental cleaning costs about $9. having a tooth pulled
    including medication is about $20
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      Third, as a U.S. Citizen you would still be required to pay U.S. taxes on your income even if you aren't living here, at least up to $96k or so.
      When I last lived abroad, if you were physically outside the US for at least 360 days, you did not have to pay US taxes on income earned during that time.

      However, someone I know who lives abroad files US taxes every year and chooses to pay taxes so she can be eligible for Social Security, which is more generous than any pension she would get in the country where she lives now.

      Marcia Yudkin
      Signature
      Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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      • Profile picture of the author ronrule
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        When I last lived abroad, if you were physically outside the US for at least 360 days, you did not have to pay US taxes on income earned during that time.

        However, someone I know who lives abroad files US taxes every year and chooses to pay taxes so she can be eligible for Social Security, which is more generous than any pension she would get in the country where she lives now.

        Marcia Yudkin
        That was changed recently (2010 or 2011 I think) ... there is still the "Foreign Earned Income Exlcusion" but it's only for those who actually change their residency, and even then you aren't eligible for that until after you've already been living out of the country for a year. The reason was because telecommuting made it so people could just move and get a work visa in another country, but still telecommute and work for companies here and skip the tax. Doesn't work anymore.


        How do I know if I qualify for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion?

        The IRS qualifies you as eligible for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) if you fall into one of three categories:

        1. You are citizen of the US who qualifies as a bona fide resident of another country for a period of time containing one entire tax year.

        2. You are a resident alien of the US whose home country has an income tax treaty with the US. Additionally, you must be a bona fide resident of another country for a period of time containing one entire tax year.

        3. You are a citizen or resident alien of the US whose physical absence from the US constitutes a minimum of 330 days out of any 365.
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  • Profile picture of the author tremayne
    I am not American; will a Canadian do?

    I moved to Panama almost 10 years ago but I have the advantage of a $2k pension.

    It costs me $1k including $350 rent for a pretty good house; the rest goes into my business.

    Obviously, you do not have a pension or enough money to buy your way in. But you can come on a visitor's visa and hop next door into Costa Rica overnight every six months and in that way stay as long as you like.

    High speed Internet is available, the currency is the U.S dollar, most people speak some English, there is no snow and there is no tax on foreign income. U.S citizens pay no tax on incomes less than $80,000.

    Just remember this: To find paradise you first have to die!

    Sydney
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  • I am in SE Asia at the moment in Singapore, personally I couldn't recommend Singapore I have been here 3yrs and find it a very boring place everything is the same and the entertainment is not great especially compared to other countries nearby.

    Once I am in the position to quit my job I will either go to Thailand, Vietnam or maybe South America.
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    Pick a country where you won't have to worry about your personal safety or getting shaken down by local authorities.
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  • I lived in KL for 9 month and have to say it is an incredible place.

    • amazing food and people
    • dirt cheap to live like a king
    • easy to get visa or travel in and out (it was in 2007/8 at least - hopefully still is)
    • it's the home of Air Asia - meaning cheap flights to other SE Asian countries
    PM me if you want details...


    Originally Posted by NoobSensei View Post

    Hi all,

    I'm an American and I'm considering moving abroad to a low-cost country to reduce my expenses while I create and market my first information product. I want to devote my full-time energy to this project (i.e. not hold a regular job), but I don't think it's financially feasible for me to do it while living in the United States with an oppressively large amount of student debt hanging over my head. I'm hoping that moving to a low-cost country will allow me to make ends meet for a while, until the money starts coming in.

    I was wondering if any Americans here had experience with living in a low-cost country while working on internet marketing. What countries are good for this? Are immigration/residency requirements a major hassle, if you're just doing your own thing online rather than "working"?

    Also, I find US income tax law to be extremely confusing when it comes to expatriates and online income. Do you need to pay income taxes (to either country) on your online income if you're an American living abroad?

    Thanks for your help. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.
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    • Agree I visit KL often it has a great vibe to the place, I would say its a very good option to live as a IMer.

      Originally Posted by thinkcontentstrategy View Post

      I lived in KL for 9 month and have to say it is an incredible place.

      • amazing food and people
      • dirt cheap to live like a king
      • easy to get visa or travel in and out (it was in 2007/8 at least - hopefully still is)
      • it's the home of Air Asia - meaning cheap flights to other SE Asian countries
      PM me if you want details...
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    I'll be living Chiang Mai, Bangkok and on the islands while I'm there (I'm staying for 90 days) and I will be working a few hours per day on my IM businesses as well as blogging about my trip.
    90 days is a short holiday, you're not 'living' in any of those places.

    First, the cost of moving to another country is more than you're likely to spend living here in a month or two.
    I don't know where this idea comes from? My only expense going to another country is my flights. And I can usually get flights for a decent price.

    Travel costs and relocation costs will take up a large proportion of your "savings"
    What are these 'relocation costs' you talk about?

    Put your clothes and laptop in a bag and get on a flight. Relocated.

    Pick a country where you won't have to worry about your personal safety or getting shaken down by local authorities.
    That's why SE Asia fits the bill. Safe place to live. Do something wrong and get caught and you might have to pay the police a bribe but that's only if you get caught.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    right, but i can get an efficiency apartment (better than the one pictured) in a suburb of houston in a decent neighborhood for $350-400.

    If you really want a true western lifestyle then these $800 a month numbers are really pretty low....almost anywhere. It can be done...even in the USA. Even within a 15 min public transit bus ride of the 4th largest city in the USA...but it aint the way most americans live.

    Thats not what most folks think of as western living. I think thats the point. If you really want a true western lifestyle then all these super low figures are not what you should be looking at. You are not comparing apples to apples so to speak.

    You are comparing the cost of living a western lifestyle with the cost of having a roof over your head and basic needs met. Very different.

    Having said that. Sacrificing a year or two of ones life to live below western standards and save money for a business is not the dumbest thing i have heard of...by far.

    A really smart money manager (dave ramsey) has a saying "live like no one else today...so you can live like no one else can tomorrow." Essentially, sacrifice a bit to keep expenses and debt down now and it will likely pay off for you in the end.
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      right, but i can get an efficiency apartment (better than the one pictured) in a suburb of houston in a decent neighborhood for $350-400.

      If you really want a true western lifestyle then these $800 a month numbers are really pretty low....almost anywhere. It can be done...even in the USA. Even within a 15 min public transit bus ride of the 4th largest city in the USA...but it aint the way most americans live.

      Thats not what most folks think of as western living. I think thats the point. If you really want a true western lifestyle then all these super low figures are not what you should be looking at. You are not comparing apples to apples so to speak.

      You are comparing the cost of living a western lifestyle with the cost of having a roof over your head and basic needs met. Very different.

      Having said that. Sacrificing a year or two of ones life to live below western standards and save money for a business is not the dumbest thing i have heard of...by far.

      A really smart money manager (dave ramsey) has a saying "live like no one else today...so you can live like no one else can tomorrow." Essentially, sacrifice a bit to keep expenses and debt down now and it will likely pay off for you in the end.
      You hear of guys in start-ups all sharing an apartment and sleeping on mattresses on the floor, or the guy who builds a successful business while living in his parents' basement.

      The $800 figure that gets thrown around is usually aimed at trying to get people to take action. Move abroad and work on your business for 12 months while slaving away at the computer for 16 hours every day.

      The fact people work so long means they won't have the western lifestyle anyway because they'll be at their computer most of the time, but you're right, it's not very fancy.

      The reason I choose to live in a third-world country is because of the tropical weather. If the same hot weather was available in the US I'd probably stay at home (but I'm not American).

      I stay in a room like the picture above, but it's only because I'm paying off debts from home so it's good to live cheap. Once they're paid off I'll splash out on a one-bedroom apartment because I can, but I don't think a studio is a bad place to live for a few years building up a business.
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      right, but i can get an efficiency apartment (better than the one pictured) in a suburb of houston in a decent neighborhood for $350-400.

      If you really want a true western lifestyle then these $800 a month numbers are really pretty low....almost anywhere. It can be done...even in the USA. Even within a 15 min public transit bus ride of the 4th largest city in the USA...but it aint the way most americans live.

      Thats not what most folks think of as western living. I think thats the point. If you really want a true western lifestyle then all these super low figures are not what you should be looking at. You are not comparing apples to apples so to speak.

      You are comparing the cost of living a western lifestyle with the cost of having a roof over your head and basic needs met. Very different.

      Having said that. Sacrificing a year or two of ones life to live below western standards and save money for a business is not the dumbest thing i have heard of...by far.

      A really smart money manager (dave ramsey) has a saying "live like no one else today...so you can live like no one else can tomorrow." Essentially, sacrifice a bit to keep expenses and debt down now and it will likely pay off for you in the end.

      I'm not really directing this at you in a negative way but just noticing the terminology you use, and I think it's something others have mentioned about eating "western food" while in places like Asia, etc.

      If someone want's a "western lifestyle" and western food, etc. just stay in the West!

      The point of moving to the East or to another country that's not in the West is not to live a Western lifestyle, it's to experience a new lifestyle. I know people who have successful businesses and plenty of money to travel or even spend a few months in another country for a bit of fun but if they step out of the country they become afraid of their own shadow. I'm not one of those people.

      If I live in another country I like to experience the food and life of that place mostly every day.

      It's like people say Singapore is very expensive. Yeah, it is if you want to replicate your life in America (for us Americans, for example) with a car and a big place. But you don't need a car in Singapore, not at all. Taxis and public transit are everywhere and reasonable price. You will have a small apartment for not too cheap a price but all other things I experienced while traveling there didn't strike me as more expensive than the U.S. and in fact I thought besides the issue of a decent place to live it'd be slightly cheaper than the U.S. I did a lot of math around the issue, ha ha, because I liked the place as it's tropical and very safe. Could get a bit claustrophobic there for sure but it seemed a good place to live.

      That's just one example, and it's true that's one of the more expensive places in Asia so that's probably a bad example, ha ha.

      But when I lived in Thailand I ate the local food and loved it. And I occasionally ate Western food, yeah, and it cost much more! I'm easy to please so didn't need that very often. I spent so little on food compared to the U.S. I had a nice studio apartment which I was plenty happy with as I also had several friends that I hung out with and played in an association football league and stuff like that, and it wasn't a big issue. Life was very cheap and I also had a lot of fun.

      I could figure out a way to live a similar cheap life in the U.S., yeah, but it wouldn't be nearly as exotic, fun, or exciting. I enjoyed it far more than the "Western lifestyle." Much less stressful, believe it or not, and more enjoyable for me. Makes me wonder why I'm back in the West ha ha.

      Just a general point to the gripers (not meaning you David), the point of living in another country is to live in another country! If you want the Western life just stay where you are if that's where you already live...
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    I don't want to be destitute, living in a third-world leaky apartment with unreliable electricity/internet where I constantly worried about personal safety or awful infectious diseases.
    You don't have to be. Many so called '3rd world' countries have world class cities as good as any Western city.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bambu
    I have lived in Asia since 2009. I made the move when I was laid off back in the USA and decided to move to Singapore where I worked for a start up for two years. The start up closed their doors after two years and I was offered a position to come back to a cushy job in the USA or accept a severance package. In an effort to stay in Asia, I decided to take the severance package and try my hand at internet marketing.

    I moved to Cambodia, because it is cheap, a long term visa is readily available and reasonably priced, and I have plenty of friends who live here.

    I gave myself six months to earn enough money to support myself. If I failed, I planned to go back to a normal job. With a lot of work and plain old dumb luck, I found something that worked for me and I am still out here.

    I hope to move to the Philippines next year where I plan to expand my operations and hire a few VAs. *fingers crossed*

    With regards to tax issues, Americans living abroad can obtain an exemption on the first ~95,000 USD they earn a year. Anything over that is taxed. I have not paid taxes on my internet income to any country I have lived in Asia (Singapore, Thailand, and Cambodia).
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    • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Bambu View Post

      I have lived in Asia since 2009. I made the move when I was laid off back in the USA and decided to move to Singapore where I worked for a start up for two years. The start up closed their doors after two years and I was offered a position to come back to a cushy job in the USA or accept a severance package. In an effort to stay in Asia, I decided to take the severance package and try my hand at internet marketing.

      I moved to Cambodia, because it is cheap, a long term visa is readily available and reasonably priced, and I have plenty of friends who live here.

      I gave myself six months to earn enough money to support myself. If I failed, I planned to go back to a normal job. With a lot of work and plain old dumb luck, I found something that worked for me and I am still out here.

      I hope to move to the Philippines next year where I plan to expand my operations and hire a few VAs. *fingers crossed*

      With regards to tax issues, Americans living abroad can obtain an exemption on the first ~95,000 USD they earn a year. Anything over that is taxed. I have not paid taxes on my internet income to any country I have lived in Asia (Singapore, Thailand, and Cambodia).
      Issues usually occur when you built up money in your bank account, but didn't pay taxes. Most foreigners are not sufficiently informed about what can happen if large sumes of illegal earnings are kept.

      Let's say you built up your bank to $150, 000, and decided it's time to buy a house. They will want to know where you got the money from, if you paid taxes, etc. The government is all over you and wants their junk, regardless of whether you are in the States or Thailand.

      It's not a concern for many marketers until they are making a healthy income.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
    I moved to the Philippines from the United States, December of 2011 (this is Channing, not Joan), and we live in a two-story house with 2 balconies, a sauna bath that some people would die for (including the Master Bedroom generally); 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, 3 air cons, all American amenities.....my rent is $325 a month. My bills (electric/water) are $175 a month (I use air con constantly). I spend about $200 a month on food (some food is really cheap - chicken, fish, including fresh tuna and blue marlin - but my American food costs about 30% more than in the States.). Cable is $7 a month. Marlboro cigarettes are $1.25 a pack. High Speed WiFi Internet is $24 a month.

    And I live in Mindanao, which the USA has warnings against, but it really is safe here. Only a few places in Mindanao are dangerous. But I live in a surfer destination spot with a lot of beaches. Nice place overall.

    I make all of my living online through services mostly.

    I'm editing this to add: You shouldn't move anywhere until you already make a decent income online. From the time I planned on moving here until the time I actually did was 2-1/2 years. I only came with $4000 in savings and a plane ticket that cost me $1400. But I was already earning online, so I had a lot of confidence making the move finally.

    Some will tell you not to move here unless you have $10,000 saved, and that is pretty good advice really, because getting things done here in the Philippines is MUCH slower than in the USA. You'll spend a good chunk of cash and spend a solid month or two just getting set up before you'll feel comfortable. I went through the $4K quick before I settled into things, found a great place to stay (3 different moves), and so on. So you need to be making the moolah before you arrive. There are no jobs here for Americans that you would ever want.
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    • Originally Posted by Joan Altz View Post

      You shouldn't move anywhere until you already make a decent income online.
      I agree with this.

      Purely saving a few hundred a month shouldnt be main reason to move. In fact, you can live pretty frugally in your home western country and spend little money (share a flat with a friend, move to mum's basement, etc). The move should be spurred by other factors other than money: the experience, a professional opportunity, better weather, etc.

      I would only recommend relocation if you're already netting a stable and comfortable income. The last thing you want to do is to be broke in a foreign country where you hardly speak the language and where jobs are terribly paid should you need to hunt around for a job.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

        I agree with this.

        Purely saving a few hundred a month shouldnt be main reason to move. In fact, you can live pretty frugally in your home western country and spend little money (share a flat with a friend, move to mum's basement, etc). The move should be spurred by other factors other than money: the experience, a professional opportunity, better weather, etc.

        I would only recommend relocation if you're already netting a stable and comfortable income. The last thing you want to do is to be broke in a foreign country where you hardly speak the language and where jobs are terribly paid should you need to hunt around for a job.
        Exactly. I don't want to work for a local salary, that would mean real trouble.

        You should always have enough on your bank account to live for at least 3 to 6 months.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    I wrote a guest post on the Flippa blog that's pretty relevant:

    Dream Meets Reality: Life As An Expat Entrepreneur | Flippa Blog | Buy & Sell Websites

    Channing - Where in Mindanao are you? I'm in Davao...we should meet up for coffee or something! :-)
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    Website Brokers - We can help you sell businesses making $500 to $50K per month.

    Free Website Valuation - How much is your website really worth? Find out here, free.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnV88
    Go to Afghanistan You can live there like a king for $200 per month but Terrorist may find you soon.
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    For Only Real Facebook Likes, Youtube Views & Twitter Followers
    www.SocialKings.info
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  • Profile picture of the author karlbetz
    Italy is a good place, you can consider.
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    In the arena of human life the honors and rewards fall to those who show their good qualities in action.

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  • Profile picture of the author thedanbrown
    My business partner is living in Thailand right now and he enjoys a whole bunch of benefits. The cost of living out there is super cheap. The most expensive part is actually getting out there.

    Also, I know if you live in New Zealand then you don't have to pay taxes on any income you make outside of the country so you would only pay taxes on customers from NZ

    Originally Posted by NoobSensei View Post

    Hi all,

    I'm an American and I'm considering moving abroad to a low-cost country to reduce my expenses while I create and market my first information product. I want to devote my full-time energy to this project (i.e. not hold a regular job), but I don't think it's financially feasible for me to do it while living in the United States with an oppressively large amount of student debt hanging over my head. I'm hoping that moving to a low-cost country will allow me to make ends meet for a while, until the money starts coming in.

    I was wondering if any Americans here had experience with living in a low-cost country while working on internet marketing. What countries are good for this? Are immigration/residency requirements a major hassle, if you're just doing your own thing online rather than "working"?

    Also, I find US income tax law to be extremely confusing when it comes to expatriates and online income. Do you need to pay income taxes (to either country) on your online income if you're an American living abroad?

    Thanks for your help. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    I speak Thai and don't think it's that difficult to learn. The tone takes time but it's such a simplistic language. Put a little effort in and you will pick it up. Take some lessons.

    I've been round the world and BKK is one of my favourite cities, Rio and Sao Paulo are the only 2 that really compete with it so far.
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  • Profile picture of the author MontrealSEO
    i say move there after you establish yourself. just because you're there, doesn't mean you'll work any better.

    there's a reason the US has the most amount of successful ppl in the whole world
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    Jeff Taylor
    MontrealSEO
    www.disavowthis.com

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  • Profile picture of the author vic alexander
    The whole of Europe bar Germany is still in recession, including the UK which is just about as expensive to live on a day by day basis as you can get. If you want cheap go to Slovakia, Estonia and believe it or not Romania is a good choice for dirt cheap property. They are sorting out the criminals and is becoming safer.
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    Vic Alexander

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