Email may not be "dead" but it's time to face that it's dying

by wesd22
74 replies
Conversion rates have fallen quite a bit because 50% of emails are opened via mobile. Good luck trying to get as many people to fill out your page, type in their CC # etc on their phone while driving or in the grocery store checkout line.

Text is replacing email. You know it. I know it. It's increasingly becoming the preferred communication between friends, family members, etc. A whole new generation relies on text for most of their communication. Or FB messaging.

At one point people said "Direct mail is not dying!" Guess what? It is. ROI has dropped tremendously to the tune of around 25%, if not more.

So, enough of this silly self-deceiving talk that email is as good as ever. You want to swim upstream? Fine go ahead. But at least be honest with yourself that you're going to have to work twice as hard for half as much as reaching traffic through the new channels such as mobile, social, and so on.
#dead #dying #email #face #time
  • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
    I would recommend to use video email instead. Research showed that people spend 7-8 seconds reading ordinary email and usually not till end. With video email, 78% more people (more than email readers) will watch video till end. And by the way there are free video emails on the market. I am using one and it is a very good quality. It provides a huge selections of HD templates and I can schedule date and time when I want that email to come out.
    Google it or message me and I will give you the link of the one that I use.
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    Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
    Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

      Conversion rates have fallen quite a bit because 50% of emails are opened via mobile.
      Speak for yourself. My conversion rates haven't fallen quite a bit because 50% of emails are opened via mobile (if indeed that statistic's true to start with).

      If you have a good continuity-process in place, your subscribers will read it later (given that they were expecting it, respect you, and so on) when they're not using their mobile, if they want to read it. And if they don't want to read it, you've gone wrong anyway.

      Either you're building relationships with people, or you're not.

      Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

      Good luck trying to get as many people to fill out your page, type in their CC # etc on their phone while driving or in the grocery store checkout line.
      Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about at all. Why would anyone want to do that?

      Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

      ROI has dropped tremendously to the tune of around 25%, if not more.
      Where do these figures come from?

      Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

      I would recommend to use video email instead.
      I have a nasty feeling you may even mean it seriously, too.

      Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

      With video email, 78% more people (more than email readers) will watch video till end.
      Another statistician?

      I prefer to be guided by what my subscribers and customers tell me. They hate video.

      http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...o-content.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
        Don't confuse "dead" with "don't know how to use properly".

        The last email blast I did for a paid product converted at around 8% (granted, that was to a pretty warm list who were already somewhat "presold" on the product... but that's the whole point, isn't it?). To say that my ROI for that blast was waaaaaay up there would be an understatement, considering that I only pay $20/mo to maintain that list.

        I haven't done much direct mail (yet), but the last direct mail "test" I did cost me $100 and brought in about $1,200 in new business.

        ^ If that's considered "dead", then I guess you could call me the "grateful dead".

        People always say the key to good ROI is to "provide value". Which is true. But you need to provide value that is relevant to your target market's exact needs. Really relevant. You don't even have to be "personable", or tell stories, or write long compelling copy, or any of that... you just have to know exactly what your target market wants and needs, and give it to them. Nothing more, nothing less. If you can do that, then you will always get great returns on your investment, regardless of what communication medium you use. It ain't rocket science.
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      • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Speak for yourself. My conversion rates haven't fallen quite a bit because 50% of emails are opened via mobile (if indeed that statistic's true to start with).

        If you have a good continuity-process in place, your subscribers will read it later (given that they were expecting it, respect you, and so on) when they're not using their mobile, if they want to read it. And if they don't want to read it, you've gone wrong anyway.

        Either you're building relationships with people, or you're not.



        Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about at all. Why would anyone want to do that?



        Where do these figures come from?



        I have a nasty feeling you may even mean it seriously, too.



        Another statistician?

        I prefer to be guided by what my subscribers and customers tell me. They hate video.

        http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...o-content.html

        My sales increased for over 35% when I started using video mail from the first few days and now for over 20% extra and that is all in one month. Text emails looks like a stone age when I tried video email. Also I asked people from my list to feedback on it and more that 90% confirmed, they just love it.
        It is up to you if you want to stay in stone age, lol, or move forward with the technological progress.
        Nothing personal, just surprised that not everyone has it yet. Usually when I tell people about it they say: yeah, I all ready have it and it is awesome.
        Also the good thing about video mail is that after watching video about the product people are redirected straight to the selling page and buy while they are still hot with it.
        Signature

        Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
        Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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        • Profile picture of the author Brian John
          Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

          My sales increased for over 35% when I started using video mail from the first few days and now for over 20% extra and that is all in one month. Text emails looks like a stone age when I tried video email. Also I asked people from my list to feedback on it and more that 90% confirmed, they just love it.
          It is up to you if you want to stay in stone age, lol, or move forward with the technological progress.
          Nothing personal, just surprised that not everyone has it yet. Usually when I tell people about it they say: yeah, I all ready have it and it is awesome.
          Also the good thing about video mail is that after watching video about the product people are redirected straight to the selling page and buy while they are still hot with it.
          although i've never tested it, something i've read a few times is that video's effectiveness can be largely dependent on the niche, such that those in the im niche are oversaturated and are now tired of seeing them, but in other, unrelated niches it works really well. again, i've never tested it, but that's the best way to know for sure imo
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Guilfoyle
    Building a non responsive list always has been a waste of time and effort. If you are expecting them to give you their cc from your first contact its a bit unrealistic whether reading your email on their pc or on their phone.

    You have to build relationships with people.If you provide real value to people who want your offers building a responsive email list is still a viable marketing method, even if its only a first step to keeping in touch via wider routes including social media.

    In any case what's your alternative?
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    • Profile picture of the author kevyiba
      I can't see how sending texts will work. How can you give your list of prospects good information and build a relationship with them in 160 characters?

      Unless you're sending buy my stuff, buy my stuff offers which get deleted quickly as it does nothing but annoy people! So email won't be going anywhere soon!
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  • Profile picture of the author SeanSupplee
    lol, so wrong, if its dieing for you the your not doing something right. Email is still the most preferred method to be sold to. These goes even over top of social networking as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Deeno Zee
      Originally Posted by SeanSupplee View Post

      lol, so wrong, if its dieing for you the your not doing something right. Email is still the most preferred method to be sold to. These goes even over top of social networking as well.
      I totally agree and well said. Not even close to dying.

      Its all about, how responsive your list is.
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

    At one point people said "Direct mail is not dying!" Guess what? It is. ROI has dropped tremendously to the tune of around 25%, if not more.
    Where do you get the information for your crazy notions? In fact the ROI on Direct Mail and Email is increasing over the past few years.

    "Direct marketing return on investment (ROI) is improving. In general, for 2012, an investment of $1 in direct marketing ad expenditures is predicted to return, on average, $12.18 in incremental revenue across all industries. This exceeds the $11.86 achieved in 2010, and $12.03 in 2011. In comparison, non-DM ROI is expected to be $5.26 in 2012."
    2012 Direct Marketing ROI Forecast

    A return of $12.18 for every dollar invested is not 24%. If you look at email, it is $39.40 for each dollar invested. *

    * Direct Marketing Association, The Power of Direct Marketing, 2011-2012.


    Maybe you could enlighten us about where you get your statistics...

    Mahlon
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  • Profile picture of the author mstrmindmktg
    Email is everywhere - business, personal. It is the fastest way of advertising communication. Sending an ad via text may not be out of the question, but texting would have to evolve from its current state. Also, because of people reading their emails via mobile becoming more widespread companies have to adapt to the difference in the size of the device. You see more "white space" ads with larger links so when people tap them on their devices, they aren't hitting everything else at the same time.

    There are various formats in which to deliver information. Deliver value and test what works with your subscribers. If they like what you have to offer, they will continue to open your emails.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chrystyan
      Maybe it's just me, but from a consumer's standpoint both email and snailmail has its effectiveness. I mean, I'm numb to random advertisements but I do enjoy reading the coupons in my mail, and I love getting email newsletters and advertisements for things I enjoy.

      I actually hate getting txts because I feel that's too private and invasive. The only txts I appreciate is from Dollar General for $5 off $25 or more . Lol.

      I would never submit my phone number on a website with the intent to subscribe to their service. No, I don't have a smart phone, but I never intend to.

      Additionally, snailmail slowed down for a while as the babyboomers started fading. As our generation gets older, the value of both email and snailmail is being recognized and utilized. Yes, there will be new venues always coming out for reaching customers, but it takes forever for the older methods to completely fade out or reduce in effectiveness.
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  • Profile picture of the author ContentIn48Hours
    This forum always seems to have these sky are falling type threads.

    The truth is to be a good marketer you always have to track and adjust.

    If you are not converting at the moment than adjust to that, and correct it.

    Many people on here love the word "dead", but the internet and internet marketing will
    always be around, and so will the good marketers you adjust.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
      Originally Posted by IMStevenSmith View Post

      This forum always seems to have these sky are falling type threads.
      The OP didn't strike me as having a hysterical "the sky is falling" tone. I think he brought up a reasonable point or two. I don't think anything he said amounts to "the sky is falling", though that may be what you've read into it.
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      :)

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  • Profile picture of the author betterwtveter
    I have to somewhat agree with email marketing, I am still finding good success with my subscribers, but I can see how it has dropped somewhat this past year.
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

    Conversion rates have fallen quite a bit because 50% of emails are opened via mobile. Good luck trying to get as many people to fill out your page, type in their CC # etc on their phone while driving or in the grocery store checkout line.

    Text is replacing email. You know it. I know it. It's increasingly becoming the preferred communication between friends, family members, etc. A whole new generation relies on text for most of their communication. Or FB messaging.

    At one point people said "Direct mail is not dying!" Guess what? It is. ROI has dropped tremendously to the tune of around 25%, if not more.

    So, enough of this silly self-deceiving talk that email is as good as ever. You want to swim upstream? Fine go ahead. But at least be honest with yourself that you're going to have to work twice as hard for half as much as reaching traffic through the new channels such as mobile, social, and so on.
    Proof? Like, actual proof? Gotta love a good, something is dying thread! More made believe numbers, more made up stats, can't we have a thread which says "Threads about dying are dying"?
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    • Profile picture of the author OnlineStoreHelp
      I think these are numbers are without context. At one point I used to track the response rate of credit card company mailers. In the early 2000's and late 90's you were getting between 2 and 5% response rate and as early as 2007, those response rates were down to .5%. Do you remember when you were getting 5 credit card solicitations in the mail a day?

      Same thing with email, the marketers that decide to send me 3 or 4 emails a day (yes I get that many from some of them) should not be surprised when their response rate is super low. But guess what, the marketers that send out a few well thought out emails from time to time, I open all the time and sometimes buy.

      As for outside the MMO Niche, most of my offline clients get upwards of 50% open rates on their emails. And as for people not putting their credit card numbers in, ask stores with a mobile presence if they agree. Until Google changed it, ecommerce stores were targeting tablets and phones with their adwords results for a reason.

      Yes people are jaded and yes things don't perform as well on an individual basis but when it is all said and done, email is still a powerful marketing tool, its just not as sexy as SMS and social media. Just my two cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Goulet
    Pitino just won the NCAA national championship game and almost shit his pants as the fireworks went off. See my video at www.YadaText.com

    ......................
    Now this could be sent by text or email...

    I prefer text marketing for the same reason stated by the OP

    Results....

    Who says you cannot generate interest in under 160 characters
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  • Profile picture of the author MrDay
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
      Originally Posted by MrDay View Post

      I agree.

      Email marketing will evolve. Eventually, probably sooner than later, the Government and the Big Dogs like Google will want a bigger chunk of that cash cow.

      Also, people in general are much more computer savvy and more of them on a daily basis don't fall for the email sales pitches.

      Many of my friends who aren't in internet marketing don't ever even buy anything that comes to them through an email. Even if I tell them it's OK, and it's trustworthy to click on that link, they still won't do it.

      They only make purchases through the actual website, and not from any affiliate links.

      There's to many wackos out there that are screwing things up for us internet marketers and making more of the general public more cautious when it comes to clicking on links and making purchases online, or through their emails.

      My 2 cents of the day.

      That is true!!! People are really cautious and this is not unreasonably. How many scams are coming to your junk folder every day. I get around 30-70 junks every day. I wonder where did they got my email from, lol. I am sure some good offers are finding their way to the junk folder and are deleted without opening. that is why I build my mailing list in person by talking to people and asking them if they want to be added to my mailing list. When something comes from me they know it is from me and who I am. However I don't think if I would buy list of emails from someone that would work, because they have no idea who I am. Every one on my list saw me in video conference room at least once. And they all know if any thing goes wrong, they can talk to me through the same conference room, not cold text emails or any thing.
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      Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
      Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Parkhouse
    Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

    At one point people said "Direct mail is not dying!" Guess what? It is. ROI has dropped tremendously to the tune of around 25%, if not more.
    Where did you hear that?

    Direct mail is as strong as ever...as long as you know what you are doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    I have been using email marketing since about 3 years before aweber was even started. They have been around for some 15 years now.

    I can tell you that my open rates and conversion rates are actually higher now than when i started. no kidding. I operate in some of the most competitive niches around include both the credit/finance and health niches. But i can tell you that i do a lot of things completely different than what is preached by most folks at places like WF.

    If your rates are falling that much then you are probably not learning from your own mistakes. You are probably trying to do things exactly the same way you always did...guess what...that won't work.

    I also use https://www.callloop.com/ for text messages. I can tell you this, i do get higher open rates with callloop. But thats not near the end of the story...see high open rates is not what any of us are after really is it.

    we are after profit. Email is still king for generating profit by a very wide margin.

    Yes, lots of people us FB, twitter, and text's to communicate. But guess what most of those same people still use email for the vast majority of their business needs. They dont see a twitter message or txt and buy stuff nearly as often as when they see an email message. There are many reasons for this...some are very simple and should really be obvious to most folks.

    People interact with other people using those other methods, but email driven messages are still where the money is at for the vast majority of businesses. That aint going to change for a really long time...at least in tech years...lol
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Consider this - 95% of all marketers fail online. That stat hasn't changed a tad. I would think that the "death rate" of email might be due to some, probably wildly high, percent to the fact that some marketers wear out their welcome.

    Customers are becoming a little more sophisticated in regard to the net. Hokey headlines are more likely to get emails zapped right away now. Stupidity that some might have put up with before is reaping high returns -- for opt outs.

    I still remember the first one I opted out of. I thought I needed the email (was new and the name was a big one). Then one day I got a message that read "XXXX killed himself". I was shocked and opened it to find it telling us about the guy working himself to death to get this new product out to us. I not only hit that unsubscribe button, I sent a message to the website and railed them good for it. I subscribe to few now. They get a few readings and if they aren't worth the salt, I opt out. There's too much quality out there to waste time on the amateurs.

    Just like any other area of marketing - you have to know what you're doing, and you have to do it with excellence. Gee, go figure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nate A
    Man,

    I'm getting kind of tired of threads like this. A few of the responders hit the nail on the head with their statistics that were cited.

    Anyway, it all depends on what you are doing and what the CONTEXT is.

    Trying to sell right off the bat in any medium might not get you too far unless you've really thought it out.

    For instance, are you a relative newbie?

    The gurus and big names can sell right off the bat and with greater frequency than a relative new-comer because of several factors. List size being one.

    However, if you are new, you have to work double hard to build a relationship and add value to your subscribers and treat them like gold, cause that's what they are.

    As your reputation increases, you can sell bigger and more frequently.

    And as others mentioned, context.

    Sure you can sell and notify via text, but how many people are going to buy something when they get a text while they are in the car driving or wherever they happen to be? Even if it is SUPER compelling, they might get 50, 60, even 100 subsequent texts that inevitably bury your text under a heap of rubble.

    Technology changes, no doubt about it, but the fundamentals are the same now as they've been for as long as people have been exchanging currency for goods and services.

    The marketing mix: Message, market, media

    Craft your message for the right market, delivered by the right media.

    Are you selling financial services to senior citizens or weight loss programs to new moms?

    You can't paint with broad brushes, because for every person like you who says you can't do it, there is someone making buku bucks in the exact same way.

    I recommend immersing yourself in the fundamentals: Hopkins, Caples, Kennedy, Carlton, Schwartz, Zig Ziglar, Halbert, and others.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Email will never die. This thread will, though
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

    Conversion rates have fallen quite a bit because 50% of emails are opened via mobile. Good luck trying to get as many people to fill out your page, type in their CC # etc on their phone while driving or in the grocery store checkout line.

    Text is replacing email. You know it. I know it. It's increasingly becoming the preferred communication between friends, family members, etc. A whole new generation relies on text for most of their communication. Or FB messaging.

    At one point people said "Direct mail is not dying!" Guess what? It is. ROI has dropped tremendously to the tune of around 25%, if not more.

    So, enough of this silly self-deceiving talk that email is as good as ever. You want to swim upstream? Fine go ahead. But at least be honest with yourself that you're going to have to work twice as hard for half as much as reaching traffic through the new channels such as mobile, social, and so on.
    Actually, eMarketer released a study about a month ago that e-mail use was actually increasing due to mobile devices and that conversions are better than ever if you know how to set up an effective marketing funnel.

    In fact, by the time you have finished reading this post 43 people in the USA converted over to a smart phone (not sure what the figure is globally).

    Mobile advertising and texting (SMS) are effective as well, but e-mail is definitely not dying; at least, that's what the numbers bear out as of March, 2013.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
    Banned
    My conversions are better now than ever..

    It might be dying for you.. But not for me
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    If one person or many people fail with a specific marketing strategy, does not mean that everyone who undertakes the use of that marketing strategy will also fail.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    what i meant to say was that email marketing is absolutely dying.

    I think all yall who buy into that rubbage should just sell me your list on the cheap and cut your losses.

    Move on to twitter...thats where the real money is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    If email is dying, why are venture capitalists buying up success email newsletters for millions upon millions of dollars?

    Email newsletters connect advertisers with eager audiences - latimes.com
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    If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

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  • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
    wesd22


    I guess your right..

    maybe you should get a job ??


    Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

    Conversion rates have fallen quite a bit because 50% of emails are opened via mobile. Good luck trying to get as many people to fill out your page, type in their CC # etc on their phone while driving or in the grocery store checkout line.

    Text is replacing email. You know it. I know it. It's increasingly becoming the preferred communication between friends, family members, etc. A whole new generation relies on text for most of their communication. Or FB messaging.

    At one point people said "Direct mail is not dying!" Guess what? It is. ROI has dropped tremendously to the tune of around 25%, if not more.

    So, enough of this silly self-deceiving talk that email is as good as ever. You want to swim upstream? Fine go ahead. But at least be honest with yourself that you're going to have to work twice as hard for half as much as reaching traffic through the new channels such as mobile, social, and so on.
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  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
    Oh crap!!! I think I'm going to have to switch to using a carrier pigeon.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pitchfork Marketing
    Banned
    Now lets all sit back and wait for him to release his "Discover how I'm able to consistently get over 100% conversion rates in every niche with my secret email tips... Even though email marketing is dead!!" WSO.

    Or was this guy actually serious?:confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    This is why your argument is useless:

    Let's assume half of everyone promoting via email believes your "email is dying" argument and stops using email. That would dramatically lessen the competition for the other 50% who continue to use email. It would actually improve their results, as the recipients would receive 50% less email promos.

    The same shift happened with direct mail. Before the days of email, everyone used direct mail to promote. A large number of those accepted the "direct mail is dead" mantra and switched to email. That resulted in much less competition for those still using direct mail. And that is why direct mail is a GREAT way to promote these days, and ROI is actually better than in the "old days" even though the postage costs are much higher.

    Make no mistake - where there is a vacuum, it will be filled.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brian John
      Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

      The same shift happened with direct mail. Before the days of email, everyone used direct mail to promote. A large number of those accepted the "direct mail is dead" mantra and switched to email. That resulted in much less competition for those still using direct mail. And that is why direct mail is a GREAT way to promote these days, and ROI is actually better than in the "old days" even though the postage costs are much higher.
      bingo!

      my brother in law who's been in the direct mail business for 25 yrs said the same thing. btw he made 1.5m last yr
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    • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
      Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

      This is why your argument is useless:

      Let's assume half of everyone promoting via email believes your "email is dying" argument and stops using email. That would dramatically lessen the competition for the other 50% who continue to use email. It would actually improve their results, as the recipients would receive 50% less email promos.

      The same shift happened with direct mail. Before the days of email, everyone used direct mail to promote. A large number of those accepted the "direct mail is dead" mantra and switched to email. That resulted in much less competition for those still using direct mail. And that is why direct mail is a GREAT way to promote these days, and ROI is actually better than in the "old days" even though the postage costs are much higher.

      Make no mistake - where there is a vacuum, it will be filled.






      I am still using a direct mail and it works!
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      Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
      Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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  • Profile picture of the author troy23
    I've made thousands of dollars online for 15 years without any list.
    I tried it for a while, but found they were mainly freebie seekers and decided to cancel the list from Aweber rather than keep paying for these people each month.
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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello wesd22,

    As others have said, email is still everywhere; I know plenty of marketers still using email as a primary means of communication, and that is the key - you need to utilize several methods of communication: mobile, social, AND email. Giving up on email is a MAJOR mistake- certainly, you don't just rely on email, but you DON'T give up on either. You never put all of your eggs into one basket- you wouldn't do that with email, you wouldn't do that with social media either.

    I read recently (eMarketer, Econsultancy, or something similar) that email is STILL the preferred way of businesses and consumers to communicate. Yes, mobile and social have definitely made impacts, and will continue to do so, but don't think email's going away any time soon - it isn't.

    As Paul mentioned, it's all about relationships no matter what medium you're using. If you meant to say credit cards (CCs) in your post, you certainly don't ask for that right away, as I don't see you being successful getting that immediately. It still takes at least 7 contacts before a prospect is even willing to consider your offer and purchase from you.

    If done properly, email is still quite effective, and will be for some time to come. It should be PART of your marketing strategy, but certainly not the whole strategy (no one method should- diversify, just like you would an investment portfolio).

    Hope this helps!

    Take care,

    Joe Chengery
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    I've made thousands of dollars online for 15 years without any list.
    I tried it for a while, but found they were mainly freebie seekers and decided to cancel the list from Aweber rather than keep paying for these people each month.
    And you lost thousands upon thousands by not having an email list. Though I'm sure we've been over this before and you refused to accept it as truth so not sure why I'm bothering.
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    • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
      Let's say email will be dead one day )if you like to use this word, lol). I don't think it will be dead in the next 5-10 years or may be more, but the fact is it is no longer as good as it was before. I remember making close to 1005 sales every month and some people was even buying few times a month. I had that result without even trying much. Just saying: New Product is Out, if You Want to Try it, Click Here. And it was working. Now every thing is different. I work for 2 days on each of my emails I send to my list and only investing so much time and effort pays off...
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

        the fact is it is no longer as good as it was before.
        Sorry, but that just isn't a "fact" at all.
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        • Profile picture of the author Brian John
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Sorry, but that just isn't a "fact" at all.
          lol

          it's a FACT alexa! it's a fact because they posted it. don't you know if it's written down it must be true!
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Brian John View Post

            don't you know if it's written down it must be true!
            Yes indeed. It must be true because I read it on the internet. Silly me. :p
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Brian John View Post

            lol

            it's a FACT alexa! it's a fact because they posted it. don't you know if it's written down it must be true!

            Like the State Farm commercial says, "They cannot put anything on the Internet that is not true."


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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

          Conversion rates have fallen quite a bit because 50% of emails are opened via mobile. Good luck trying to get as many people to fill out your page, type in their CC # etc on their phone while driving or in the grocery store checkout line.
          Did you read what you typed before you posted? Email is dying because supposedly 50% are reading their emails on a mobile?

          I guess you missed the part where you said people are reading their emails. Truth be told, I do okay even though I've never had anyone buy anything by filling out an email form, mobile or otherwise. They will click links and go to a website.

          As for people buying via text while driving? It won't be long until texting while driving will be against the law, at least in the USA. In fact, in many states, it's already illegal.

          Even if I bought your premise, which I don't, you still have to seperate content from structure. I get a lot of emails from restaurants and other businesses giving me the option of printing a coupon or showing the email to the server/salesperson on a smartphone. I've never gotten a legitimate offer by text.

          Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

          My sales increased for over 35% when I started using video mail from the first few days and now for over 20% extra and that is all in one month. Text emails looks like a stone age when I tried video email. Also I asked people from my list to feedback on it and more that 90% confirmed, they just love it.
          It is up to you if you want to stay in stone age, lol, or move forward with the technological progress.
          Nothing personal, just surprised that not everyone has it yet. Usually when I tell people about it they say: yeah, I all ready have it and it is awesome.
          Also the good thing about video mail is that after watching video about the product people are redirected straight to the selling page and buy while they are still hot with it.
          So what you're saying is that because one person, who peddles video something-or-other in his sig, has found success over one whole month with one list in an unspecified niche, we should all dump what we've been doing and jump into video email? Presumably by following the link in your sig? Did I get that right?:rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author David Keith
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post


            Even if I bought your premise, which I don't, you still have to seperate content from structure. I get a lot of emails from restaurants and other businesses giving me the option of printing a coupon or showing the email to the server/salesperson on a smartphone. I've never gotten a legitimate offer by text.
            well, i can tell you this. local restaurants are some of the few businesses who can do EXTREMELY well with text message marketing.

            I work with several clients who use it for the coupons and such you speak of. The results are literally off the charts.

            Txt messages do get opened at astronomical rates so when done correctly, it works great. Think food specials timed with when people are on their way home from work and planning dinner.

            Even HEB grocery stores (a texas only chain) does some of this stuff.

            it can even be done with location based push notifications in some instances. I have one restaurants on a major freeway in houston that sends messages to its people as they pass by on the freeway. Kinda scary in some ways, but it works great. They can fill empty seats almost at will.

            I am even working with some guys now who are sending the "your table is ready" messages via txts to your phone instead of using those blinking or vibrating things. People love it and we get their phone number for more txt message marketing

            but the advantages are not nearly as obvious for most businesses.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Raybould
    Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post

    At one point people said "Direct mail is not dying!" Guess what? It is. ROI has dropped tremendously to the tune of around 25%, if not more.
    Are you pulling these numbers from thin air?

    Funny how my DM clients are doing better than
    ever in spite of these ROI drops, huh?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason_V
    This is a post I made in another forum here:

    Recently I was wondering if what Gary Halbert said about direct mail was even relevant anymore. I was thinking perhaps his stuff (not the actual copywriting advice mind you, but the channel he worked in, direct mail) was out of date. It seems direct mail is indeed going obsolete, but it's not quite yet there.

    I think the take away is that while direct mail still got better response rates, it has declined by 25% in the past 9 years, and email and telemarketing deliver a higher ROI, email being number one in that regard.

    Here is the article [please note, you may want to take with grain of salt, because they deal with direct marketing, however they do admit that direct mail is down by 25% in the past 9 years]:

    Despite the perception in the marketing industry that direct mail and telemarketing are less effective than digital channels, the Direct Marketing Association (DMA) has found that direct mail boasts a 4.4% rate, compared to email's average response rate of 0.12%, says Yory Wurmser, director of marketing and media insights at the DMA.

    Depending on how one crunches the numbers, direct mail has a response rate of up to 10 to 30 times that of email — and even higher when compared to online display, Wurmser continues.

    Using transactional data from Bizo and Epsilon, the DMA analyzed more than 29 billion emails and 2 billion online display impressions to track consumer actions both immediately following a click and in the days and weeks after being exposed to an online ad.

    “Overall for display, only 6% converted as a result of the immediate action of the click,” Wurmser says, meaning that 94% of conversions happen at a later date — an important finding, considering that the success of display's impact is generally judged by its click-through rate.

    Despite this news, Wurmser notes that in the nine years the DMA has been doing its response rate report, the rate for direct mail, while still “the better channel than any other out there right now,” has gone down 25% overall.

    “Yes, there has been a reduction in the response rate level from a direct mail perspective,” he says. “But, looking at it strictly in terms of response rate, direct mail still outperforms digital.”

    However, looking at the playing field from an ROI point of view, email is more cost-effective than direct mail or telemarketing. The report found email had the highest ROI, at $28.50, compared the $7 for direct mail.

    As to why direct mail remains such a strong channel while simultaneously declining in terms of overall response rate, the reason could be related to the fact that consumers are — now more than ever — continually bombarded by digital messages they don't want.

    “Because of the proliferation of emails and the onslaught of display ads everywhere, there is an advantage of going through direct mail,” Wurmser muses. “Direct mail in a way has become less cluttered.

    The DMA's report was based on data collected through an April 2012 email survey and an analysis of transactional data provided by Bizo and Epsilon.

    http://www.dmnews.com/dma-direct-mai...rticle/245780/
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  • Profile picture of the author stefanvanray
    If you really are just having trouble with your email list, I'd say it's something you're doing wrong. You need to reconfigure, look at some successful templates, ask the right questions on the forum and then test and see what works. If you really work at it you'll see your conversion rate go up. Find something that works and keep at it.
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  • Profile picture of the author PookieThePirate
    I'm going to have to disagree. If you just send them crap hoping they buy things without actually communicating with them, then it probably will die for you. Emails can still be used for other things, especially driving traffic to your site (especially if it converts to mobile).

    Also regarding people forking over their CC/Paypal to you, what if in the future their are mobile versions of offers? Clickbank has some offers that are compatible with mobile.

    Eventually there will be mobile versions of everything... that's how I feel. It's only a matter of time.

    Also these people on your list are actual human beings. What if they see something intriguing you sent them in their email, and then think "I'm interested to know more, that last product actually helped me out!(assuming you actually help your list)" and visit whatever it is on their desktop/laptop? Though I think that would only work for people who actually communicate well with their list and actually have given products that help them.

    Also email will remain to be emails... I think you mean the platform in which people read their emails has changed, but people still read their emails lol. Again, they are people.

    The conversation about how people don't trust what's in their email, that's true... unless they don't trust you despite joining your list. If people trust you, they'll click whatever is in your links. But if you give them garbage, they won't. People don't join a list to get junk mail... the headlines some marketers use is also BEYOND spammy lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
    We just need to pick up our game, rather than doing things in the same way and expecting the same results.

    After all that is the definition of insanity.

    I don't believe e-mail marketing is dead, we just need to reinvent ourselves within it. Create real relationships, add real value rather than just doing as the herd does, and spamming the crap out of everyone hoping that something sticks...
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Sigh. Another thread saying something that I am making more money than ever from is dead. If this is what "dead" is like, then I might just kill all of my income streams, because "dead" is really working out for me!
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    Founder of JVZoo. All around good guy :)

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  • Profile picture of the author jivens
    Banned
    Fine, if you think that it's dying then be my guest and don't do email marketing. More for me and my fellow internet marketers that know it's not dying.

    My open rate and conversion rates haven't fallen at all.

    Now, with that said, I think people are expecting more out you (which is a great thing).
    In other words, I don't think you can hammer your email list 1-2 times a day now with a paid promotion.

    Fact of the matter is that you must build rapport with them and make them like you. People are getting savvier and that is a good thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    Oh look another one of those "It doesn't work for me so it must be dying" guys...
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    This is just a silly thread from someone I can confidently guess doesn't even use email marketing OR doesn't use it properly. If they did then they wouldn't have started this thread in the first place.

    YOUR inability to make something work does not mean it doesn't work. It just means YOU can't make it work.

    There is a LOT more proof out there that backs up the complete opposite of what you are saying in this thread. The only thing that appears dead is your ability to make money from email. So give up. Throw in the towel. Leave it to the rest of us who are using email marketing effectively.

    If you want attention then go and walk naked down the main street of your town but don't just try and start 'death of' threads because they really offer absolutely no value to anyone at all... especially when what you are claiming is simply not true.
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  • Profile picture of the author joaquin112
    Email marketing will become harder as there are more marketers competing for the same users and as more people switch to reading e-mails from their mobile devices.

    I did some research and I read an interesting fact. The majority of people who read e-mail from their smart phones also read it from their computers and/or tablets.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by joaquin112 View Post

      Email marketing will become harder as there are more marketers competing for the same users and as more people switch to reading e-mails from their mobile devices.
      Actually, what you will find is that as more and more marketers compete for the same subscribers, it actually makes it even easier for the great marketers to stand out and shine.

      If there were two people at a wedding and one of them was wearing a kilt he wouldn't stand out very much. But if there were 100 people at the wedding all in suits and 1 guy in a kilt, he is going to stick out like a sore thumb. Just the same way the great ethical marketers stick out like a sore thumb when compared to the rest.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        Actually, what you will find is that as more and more marketers compete for the same subscribers, it actually makes it even easier for the great marketers to stand out and shine.

        If there were two people at a wedding and one of them was wearing a kilt he wouldn't stand out very much. But if there were 100 people at the wedding all in suits and 1 guy in a kilt, he is going to stick out like a sore thumb. Just the same way the great ethical marketers stick out like a sore thumb when compared to the rest.
        This is kinda true. However, in a super evergreen niche like IM (make money online) there is always a tremendous amount of new blood coming into the mix.

        Most of those guys never stay around long enough to figure out which way is up and who is who.

        In niches like IM, there is always more than enough new blood to support a substantial number of crappy, bottom feeding, leach type marketers.

        So these short sided marketers can have long term success in markets like IM because there is a sucker born every minute as they say.

        I am certainly not saying its the best approach, merely pointing out that in niches like the IM niche it is a viable strategy.... assuming your conscious lets you sleep at night
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    haha, the deeek that posted this thread has probably never built a list...I mean comon.

    Email marketing has never been better for our business. I am serious....worked good in 2011, in 2012 even better, and 2013....well its kickiing ass yet again.

    I love these threads, they are so stoopid but they they are normally shot down very quick by senior warriors.
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  • Profile picture of the author rockong
    you may be doing something wrong bud. if you're providing value to the contacts on your email list, there's no reason why your conversions and open rates should be low.

    Perhaps your marketing and targeting isn't niche enough...or perhaps you need to up the quality
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  • Profile picture of the author koreancowboy
    Simple solution...write emails that people will want to save to read later, or better yet, click on the link and sign up for whatever you're promoting.
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  • Profile picture of the author weble
    Funny, cause there is a ton of articles over the internet that "Mail Marketing" is the future
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Kuchel
    Also because the quality of emails would be dropping significantly due to the fact more and more newbies are trying to make money with email and not really knowing what they're doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author karlbetz
    This is just personal habits, cannot be conclusive.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    *yawn ..............
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  • Profile picture of the author gil12
    not only this... day after day there is more and more competition.... one email can get 40 offers per month and you need good luck and high relationship if you want that the guy chose your offer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
      The problem with a lot of IMers (most actually) is that they think their content is good, thus worth opening, and in reality it kinda sucks.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    that's a good topic, about "email for mobile"... I've always sent epic-long emails; adding to the mix some "mobile device friendly" ones is a very good idea; any ideas? I'm thinking short 2-4 liners with URL link to squeeze that's ez to fill out/click/autofill w/social media login already done, is a good idea, like kindle apps for 'rate this'
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  • Profile picture of the author SherpaPeak
    I have noticed a change in email. If a person is interested, and participates even as a lurker in your community, they will stick around. Email works for them, as well as being a member of the Facebook page community. For my local marketing, I've found people would rather be on Facebook than receive email. Some people sign up for my newsletters due to Facebook. As for 160 characters, people love headlines. These types of posts get me great traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author GlenH
    Originally Posted by wesd22 View Post


    At one point people said "Direct mail is not dying!" Guess what? It is. ROI has dropped tremendously to the tune of around 25%, if not more.

    .
    Wrong!!! Email has never worked better for me.

    Seems like you must doing something wrong
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    If everything's dead, does that mean we're zombies?
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by rmolina88 View Post

      If everything's dead, does that mean we're zombies?
      Mmmmmm, brains, yummo... :p
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