Many people think that IM is all about 'selling a dream'. Sadly, the focus on 'quick bucks' and 'overnight internet millions' is fanned by copywriting that pushes the envelope a bit too far.

Sorry but I dont agree with you.

Internet Marketing is a real and actual business.
I am sure there are thousands of warriors alone who have Internet Marketing as their only business and source of income.
If done correctly, Internet Marketing can be very lucrative.....

I completely agree with you. A lot of people think just because they got affiliate sites they running a business, NEWSFLASH - you are not. You simply generating income from internet, but you are not running an actual business. Just think about it, real businesses don't go out of business or lose 99% of their income because of Google update or ban of adsense account. Sure, some lose business if they rely on SEO, but just like stoltingmediagroup said, they use Internet as a tool.
99% of your "businesses" are a 1 man team promoting products of others.
99% people started IM w/o knowing what they wanted to do, what they should go after or what niche they should pick. Did you ever see that happening with a real business?

"oH I thiNk I'm gonna starT a Business" - "What kind of business?" "Oh You KnoW, I'll Figure iT ouT later".

99% of you tried 100 different things, until you finally managed to make a dollar from 1 and all of a sudden you a f*king businessman? That 1 thing probably selling "make $1000's / day" bs tutorials. Let's stop dreaming please.

very good post. like you said the internet is a tool that can be utilized to
enhance a real business.

Marketing is about much more than the Internet. The Internet is one of an array of tools that can be used to market but if relied on alone it means a lot of money os being left on the table.

Sydney

That argument is like saying marketing isn't a real business, or sales isn't a real business.

I understand what you're trying to say, that it is the middle man to a real business, but that does not in any way make it so that it is not a business in and of itself.

Your points as to what one should do - who says that a lot of internet marketers don't do exactly that? With information products, white label services, arbitrage, or selling someone else's product? Isn't this what shopkeepers and supermarkets do? Sell other people's products?

If you set up a business that's a 'real business', and then you are ready to do internet marketing. If I'm being realistic, and I have a 'real business' and know nothing about internet marketing, then I would probably hire an internet marketer to help me out with strategy and implementation and so on. Isn't that a business in and of itself? As a CEO of my business, there's no way I want to learn internet marketing, why would I if I have such good products and services? That is my core strength.

I don't see how the point to this? The advice is flawed.

Well, I consider myself an pretty accomplished internet marketer. I Got about 18 years under my belt.

I can make a business out of internet marketing. I do it all the time these days for fun.

about 2 years ago now, i was reading some stuff about adfly traffic being crap on this forum. That peaked my interest so i went to adfly, checked it out and subsequently built a small temporary business that was turning 4 figures in profit monthly. Sure it wasnt a traditional business. It was built specifically to monetize adfly traffic. I shut it down simply because i had made my point to myself...adfly traffic is not crap. Its just people dont know how to use it.

I took a $5000 bet weekend before last that i can't start with $500 and triple my money with traffic exchanges in 180 days. with no help of course from existing leverage or partnerships of any sort. I am supremely confident i can.

Now, i realize i am probably in the minority of folks who can successfully do many of these things in various different portions of the internet marketing arena. But that doesn't mean that internet marketing by itself can't be a viable career all on its own.

Saying so is much like the guys who say adfly traffic is crap...they say that because THEY don't understand how to use it effectively to turn a profit.

Basically what you are saying is the YOU dont understand how internet marketing by itself can be a viable option without a more traditional business concept behind it. You are saying that to you, it is just a method of advertising or growing a service/product style business.

I guess i just dont agree...some of us can take internet marketing and make a full blown career out of many aspects of it over and over again...thats pretty much what i do now for entertainment.

So your saying that creating a business plan that relies 100% on the internet and then executing this plan with success is not a business? By real products or services are you referring to them being offline? Doesn't make too much sense to me.

I think your just frustrated with the noobs who start threads about nonsense and you've created your own thread to vent...

Hello Stoltingmediagroup,

I think I see your point in regards to knowing what products/services to sell and not just opportunities, but I think the way you worded it made it sound like Internet marketing in itself can't be a business - that's pretty much what you said in your first post.

However, how have some well-known Internet marketers (Edmund Loh and Khag Ni as just two examples) who have done it strictly via PLR product collections that are solely online been successful, then? That is how they became well-known Internet marketers. To my knowledge, they were not excelling with offline ventures, products/services before they arrived on the online scene, yet they are very known in the online world as being successful, and have been for the past few years.

That's where I think your wording has led many to believe that your message was that Internet marketing itself can't be a business when I think you meant to say more on the order that you need to know what products/services you're going to provide (along with the proper target market) and not just run on affiliate promotions and the latest "gimmicks" and "tactics" to make some money here and there.

Another example - Amazon's Kindle, Apple's iBookstore, and B&N's NookPress - they are strictly online (not counting Amazon's CreateSpace physical publishing) - there are several notable authors who are doing quite well simply with those platforms, and some of them weren't having that type of success offline or online before the existence of these platforms.

I could be wrong, but I think that's where the confusion and the misunderstanding have occurred. I think you've said since your first post that Internet marketing can be a business in itself, just that some more inexperienced marketers fall into the idea that they are running a business that is built up on someone else's main product or relies on one main source of traffic or has one pillar/foundation that can be usurped at a moment's notice (Google and SEO, for instance), potentially wiping them out or making them wonder what to do now because they didn't diversify and have several foundations in place as many offline businesses have.

Just my 2 cents.

Take care,

Joe Chengery

So what you are saying is this?

A Grocery Store is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.
A Realtor is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.
A Phoneshop is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.

A Internet Marketer is not a business because they sell/promote someone else's product.

hmm. Are you seeing the trend? Your claiming that just because a person does not have an original idea as their choice of product/service to sell/promote they are not a business?

What you have claimed is complete nonsense in my humble opinion.

Personally, what i think the OP was trying to say is to not do what i personally do...that is a recipe for disaster if you dont have a very strong internet marketing background to pull from.

Basically i just look for opportunities to match traffic with people or offers that pay me in some way, shape, or form...it may not even be money on the front end.

I think the point the OP was trying to make is that for most, internet marketing is just an advertising medium and not really a business opportunity in and of itself.

Many of the courses out there teaching how to make money online basically promise to tell you what to sell, how to sell it, and where to find people to sell it to. That is damn hard to do.

I know what i am doing on this sort of stuff and its very difficult for me to connect all those dots on consistent basis. I have no idea how a relative newcomer could ever get it all right from a couple of pdf's or videos.

I see. So what you're saying is that Internet Marketing is simply a 'medium' where one can make money/advertise their services - but internet marketing in of itself is not a business? That makes sense. In other words, it is the assets one has that is the business? The e-mail list, the products etc?

it can be both a business in and of itself and just a simple advertising medium for a more traditional business.

There are indeed people who are professional telemarketers, postcard/direct mailers, internet marketers.....

These people can build an entire viable, long term, sell-able business just by connecting the dots between consumers and products using their chosen field of expertise.

To some of us, internet marketing is much much more than just an advertising medium. It is an entire industry...and i am not talking about the how to make money niche...i mean internet marketing in general.

I dont even operate in the IM niche. no thanks...lol.

I mean you could say the same thing about "affiliate marketing". That affiliate marketing is just a marketing tactic. It is in a way, but it is also a very viable business concept to build a business on all by itself.

I think it is this simple. People must look at internet marketing as a skill to learn. Just like mail-order marketing, billboard marketing, newspaper marketing, business to business marketing, etc... When people say they want to start internet marketing and ask which product they should sell that is the first mistake. The first question should be "What is internet marketing and its different types and which 1 is best for me?" What are the skills, processes, and knowledge do I need to master that type of internet marketing only?" Just like any other marketing, it is a business because other businesses will pay you to do all types of internet marketing for there companies. There is email marketing, ppc marketing, seo marketing, social marketing, local online placement marketing, solo ad marketing, etc.. Internet marketing is a business and a service you need to know that, that is what you are doing not promoting a product. You must learn a internet marketing skill first then you can promote a product. If you are just looking to make some money only then you are not going to succeed until you master 1 of the internet marketing skills.

I think the big idea is to have an actual Business online is you need CUSTOMERS!

A product, idea, or website is NOT a business but your customers. That is why building a List of people interested in your subject matter and developing a relationship is so important.

The difference between brick and mortar and the internet is it cost a lot less to get started - and you have the whole world to promote to.

I don't necessarily agree with you. If you create DIGITAL products and sell them from a website exclusively, then you have an INTERNET MARKETING business.

If you have a brick and mortar business and use the internet to market your products and services, then yes, I can agree with what you are talking about. But to say that selling products and services on the internet is not a true business is what get's a lot of people in trouble, and most never do make a lot of money because they don't treat it like a business as they should.

Any way you slice it, if you are making money from selling products or services on the internet, you have an internet business. It might not be your full business model, but it is an internet business. A REAL BUSINESS.

What do you think that internet sales are fake or plastic? Real money is exchanged and you can pay your bills, or feed your family or buy what you want with the money you earned on that said not real internet business.

Agree and disagree.

Agree it is a model of communication for real life businesses out their and can provide an added income stream.

disagree - their are a lot of business models that are based on Internet marketing. clickbank? and another 1000 affiliate programs out their.

just to throw it out their, could you name another business communication method that is not a business.

Arnold - I fell into this forum around 7 years ago, and the real minds in here then were telling people the same thing..........and have been all along the way. It's nice to see that some people actually "get it". People are always screaming about how do gurus do it, they don't want us to know, why can't I do it then -- yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah. Well, if they look real hard at what these "gurus" were doing OFFLINE before they got here - most were learning business and educating themselves.

Not understanding the concept that marketing is NOT the business itself seems like a pretty fundamental concept. I guess there just aren't many people who understand the fundamentals running around wanting to fire their bosses.

I prefer to sell real business and real products than just "selling a dream".

Firstly, good post.

The discussion (above) around the issue of whether or not IM is a business reminds me of something similar and related to IT in business.

For many organisations, IT is not a business, it is something that supports the business. However, for a good number of other organisations, IT IS the business.

Anyway, same thing applies to IM.

Will

I think many people fail because they fail to understand the concept of IM and, moreover, the idea that money do not come over night! There are no miracles in IM and no kinder surprise! You work hard and you get informed! That is the way you should start in the first place.
Those who are chasing wild geese will never be successful, that is for sure.

Of course 'Internet Marketing' is a friggin' business...

Are we honestly debating this? LOL

There's an additional vector that you state in the second paragraph which puts things into context.

Sustainability can surely be debated, however it is not a factor in any state which detracts from an act of trade being a business, which it is by definition.

An "actual / real business" can still be so, without it being futureproof.

It's an actual / real business whilst it's turning over profit no matter what it's destiny may be.

There are many past and current profitable businesses that ride upon trends that come and go and those declines are all factored in as part of the financial forecast.


Daniel

The confusion stems from the fact that IM can be construed at its own industry - ie., 'I get rich by telling other people how rich I am' ala John Chow. That's separate from IM which is part of growing an ecommerce or other type of website. Stolting raises good points re the former type of IM though.

marketing a business is a business on its own and a service you provide... you can market a product or information books, or services for business to market their products... all the same, you are a internet marketer that will help businesses grow and this itself is a business with lots of potential...

Philosphy for this this thread "stay out of other people's business"

I mean honestly, there is no clear cut definition of business, and if you can start a one person company/business and be recognized by law as a business, than why would you deny that?