by amilo70 Banned
46 replies
I'm having some problems right now. My friend is saying that MLM is illegal and that pyramid scheme is illegal. Sure pyramid scheme is illegal but can someone please tell me the truth. All MLM is not pyramid scheme, right ?
#mlm
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    • Profile picture of the author Seemore25101
      In response to the article,would Empower qualify as Pyramid? You need to sign up new members to make money.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nattsurfaren
        Is you friend an Internet Entrepreneur?
        This sounds something my mother would say.
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      • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
        Originally Posted by Seemore25101 View Post

        In response to the article,would Empower qualify as Pyramid? You need to sign up new members to make money.
        Pyramids and Ponzi schemes are also prosecuted in State Courts and they all do not see things equally. So what may pass the mustard in one state, or country for that matter, may not pass in another.

        But in most cases, where you make money for recruiting another "rep", is a basic red flag for courts. From there they further classify depending on the details of the compensation plan. It is based on compensation origin and percentage of sales / income derived of "non-reps" vs. "reps".
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        • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
          Originally Posted by professorrosado View Post

          Pyramids and Ponzi schemes are also prosecuted in State Courts and they all do not see things equally. So what may pass the mustard in one state, or country for that matter, may not pass in another.

          But in most cases, where you make money for recruiting another "rep", is a basic red flag for courts. From there they further classify depending on the details of the compensation plan. It is based on compensation origin and percentage of sales / income derived of "non-reps" vs. "reps".
          Sadly a lot of pyramids never get prosecuted, not because they are legal (they are not), but simply because there are so many that the authorities never get round to them. If somebody says such and such a bizop is legal because they haven't been prosecuted, take it with a ton of salt - it may simply be that they haven't been prosecuted *yet*!

          In any case, pyramids are fundamentally flawed, and always doomed to fail with more losers than winners, even if they never appear on the authorities' radar.
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          • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
            Originally Posted by SunilTanna View Post

            If somebody says such and such a bizop is legal because they haven't been prosecuted, ............
            In any case, pyramids are fundamentally flawed, and always doomed to fail with more losers than winners, even if they never appear on the authorities' radar.
            That was not the gist of what I was saying. I wasn't referring to the reasons that a pyramid /Ponzi scheme could pass as "legal:, I was referring to the complex judicial arena that determines if a particular MLM is or is not an illegal Pyramid / Ponzi scheme.

            Pyramidical Distribution and Marketing systems are not illegal. They happen to be the most implemented and stable business structure on the planet. It is the basis of every activity that any Warrior engages in and any businessman works at every day of the week. Just because your pyramid is a two-tiered (seller & buyer) one, doesn't mean that your small and broad pyramid is any less a pyramid - you are still at the top (as a product creator).

            And if you are an affilliate, you are simply the middle man in, at minimum. a three tiered system.

            The issue with pyramids and what makes them "illegal pyramids" (notice that the two words form one term because there ARE legal pyramids) is that the illegal pyramid is comprised solely of "Reps" and these "reps" earn compensation partly (depending on which state is involved) or mostly derived from recruitment of "downline" reps.

            The more compensation that is derived from downline recruiting, the more the BizOpp is an illegal pyramid. The more money required to join this BizOpp, the more illegal it is (some states have a threshold amount a new recruit can be asked to pay before the illegal condition is established).

            It is precisely because each state and many countries have different thresholds as to what constitutes an illegal scheme that it behooves the BizOpp seeker to simply stay away from any MLM company that bases its compensation on recruitment fees and/or purchases. Simply, the product is recruitment to one degree or another.
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            • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
              Originally Posted by professorrosado View Post

              That was not the gist of what I was saying. I wasn't referring to the reasons that a pyramid /Ponzi scheme could pass as "legal:, I was referring to the complex judicial arena that determines if a particular MLM is or is not an illegal Pyramid / Ponzi scheme.

              Pyramidical Distribution and Marketing systems are not illegal. They happen to be the most implemented and stable business structure on the planet. It is the basis of every activity that any Warrior engages in and any businessman works at every day of the week. Just because your pyramid is a two-tiered (seller & buyer) one, doesn't mean that your small and broad pyramid is any less a pyramid - you are still at the top (as a product creator).

              And if you are an affilliate, you are simply the middle man in, at minimum. a three tiered system.

              The issue with pyramids and what makes them "illegal pyramids" (notice that the two words form one term because there ARE legal pyramids) is that the illegal pyramid is comprised solely of "Reps" and these "reps" earn compensation partly (depending on which state is involved) or mostly derived from recruitment of "downline" reps.

              The more compensation that is derived from downline recruiting, the more the BizOpp is an illegal pyramid. The more money required to join this BizOpp, the more illegal it is (some states have a threshold amount a new recruit can be asked to pay before the illegal condition is established).

              It is precisely because each state and many countries have different thresholds as to what constitutes an illegal scheme that it behooves the BizOpp seeker to simply stay away from any MLM company that bases its compensation on recruitment fees and/or purchases. Simply, the product is recruitment to one degree or another.
              By "pyramids", I meant pyramid scheme. Fwie I agree a pyramid scheme is about recruiting as opposed to selling to people not involved in the bizop (retail customers). And pyramid schemes always fail, regardless of whether they have been caught by the authorities yet.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
        Originally Posted by Seemore25101 View Post

        In response to the article,would Empower qualify as Pyramid? You need to sign up new members to make money.
        No I don't think it would. Empower Network's "product" which they are explicitly advertising everywhere is the Blogging System. The product they promote within their blog (to leverage the users reading their blog and make money) is Empower Network. It's a clever MLM scheme.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Ben Gordon View Post

          Empower Network's "product" which they are explicitly advertising everywhere is the Blogging System.
          And that has large numbers of genuine retail customers, not involved in the business opportunity, lining up for it at $25 per month for a single hosted blog, does it, so that it's legally compliant and not just an overpriced pseudo-product masquerading as "legitimate value"?

          It'll be interesting to see what a court has to say about that, won't it? Because that's exactly one of the questions that courts examine when soi-disant "MLM's" are accused of being illegal pyramids, and one of the things that determine the court's findings.
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    • Profile picture of the author Devin X
      Banned
      LOL by this definition, Empower Network is definitely a pyramid scheme. I've been saying this all along, but noooo what do I know? :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Guilfoyle
    A pyramid scheme (or Ponzi type) is unsustainable.It merely involves people being paid for recruiting people who pay to join. Eventually the scheme runs out of new people and the scheme collapses. These are illegal and should be avoided at all costs.

    Legitimate MLM schemes are absolutely not illegal. Some would say they are a highly ethical way of doing business. Just remember the more you help others in mlm the more you help yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author OldLodgeSkins

    I've known this video for ages... It explains very well the differences. It also shows there are people you'll never convince
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    Do you use Facebook ? Then you can make money just by inviting people to a Facebook group ! It's called the Instant Income System. How cool is that?
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  • Profile picture of the author amilo70
    Banned
    This is related to Empower Network.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clausenlt
    The reality is , MLM is a good business, but lots of stupid people and bad people get into it. Sound familiar? Like life?


    That video was awesome! Nice job.
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  • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
    The thing you need to be looking for is whether there is something to sell, and whether that is something you could sell, and make money from.

    Then you help other people to sell that product, and you make more money, a little like overrides in a sales job, if you're a manager.

    A ponzi scheme is something where you pay to join, and that money that you pay to join is used directly to pay people their income. That is illegal because there is no product for sale, and eventually the pyramid will collapse as more people will need to be paid than can be conned into joining.
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    • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
      Originally Posted by MartinPlatt View Post

      A ponzi scheme is something where you pay to join, and that money that you pay to join is used directly to pay people their income. That is illegal because there is no product for sale, and eventually the pyramid will collapse as more people will need to be paid than can be conned into joining.
      yes. Note: Pyramid schemes and ponzi schemes do have products though sometimes - having a product by itself does not make it legit.

      To have a reasonable chance of being legit, there must both be a product, and also the product sales must be substantially (this is the slightly fuzzy bit, but comfortably more than 50% would be a rule of thumB - exact legal definition may vary by jurisdiction, might be even higher) to people not involved in the bizop as reps/distributors/resellers/affiliates/etc
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    • Profile picture of the author andyjbenson
      Martin has hit the nail on the head here....

      You need to look at the business and see WHAT it actually is they are selling. An MLM "Structure" to a business when applied correctly can be incredibly powerful, but ONLY if the business is a genuine one with a high quality product / products to sell in tandem with the recruitment side of the business.

      In other words you should be able to see TWO clear sides to the business. 1.Retail distribution of product/s and 2. Recruitment of team members.

      Without product the business is not sustainable and is purely based on selling an "ideal" or "opportunity" to make money, by going and out and selling the same said "opportunity" to make money!

      There is nothing REAL, physical or even digital here at all, and as such this is a very fragile business model and one that should be avoided at all costs.

      So look at the business itself....how long it's been established, what does it DO, what does it sell?? If it's physical product then look at that product in detail, it's history & track record. Look for testimonials from people who have bought and used those products.

      If it's digital products then they have to be able to stand alone in their own right, and not just be a vehicle to sell the same said "business opportunity" to others.

      People who buy HAVE to be able to have the option to either just retail the products to earn money OR recruit others into the business to grow a team to do the same.

      If the business doesn't allow this then put up the red flags!

      Hope this helps buddy!
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      • Profile picture of the author amilo70
        Banned
        Originally Posted by andyjbenson View Post

        Martin has hit the nail on the head here....

        You need to look at the business and see WHAT it actually is they are selling. An MLM "Structure" to a business when applied correctly can be incredibly powerful, but ONLY if the business is a genuine one with a high quality product / products to sell in tandem with the recruitment side of the business.

        In other words you should be able to see TWO clear sides to the business. 1.Retail distribution of product/s and 2. Recruitment of team members.

        Without product the business is not sustainable and is purely based on selling an "ideal" or "opportunity" to make money, by going and out and selling the same said "opportunity" to make money!

        There is nothing REAL, physical or even digital here at all, and as such this is a very fragile business model and one that should be avoided at all costs.

        So look at the business itself....how long it's been established, what does it DO, what does it sell?? If it's physical product then look at that product in detail, it's history & track record. Look for testimonials from people who have bought and used those products.

        If it's digital products then they have to be able to stand alone in their own right, and not just be a vehicle to sell the same said "business opportunity" to others.

        People who buy HAVE to be able to have the option to either just retail the products to earn money OR recruit others into the business to grow a team to do the same.

        If the business doesn't allow this then put up the red flags!

        Hope this helps buddy!
        This was related to Empower Network and I'm quite sure EN is legal or else it wouldn't be alive with over 100k members and the company is worth millions. Somebody would have shut them down long time ago then.
        I don't doubt in EN but I just had to create this thread to prove it for my friends.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by amilo70 View Post

          This was related to Empower Network and I'm quite sure EN is legal or else it wouldn't be alive with over 100k members and the company is worth millions. Somebody would have shut them down long time ago then.
          I don't doubt in EN but I just had to create this thread to prove it for my friends.
          There is no bigger cheerleader for MLM on this forum than me so when
          I say that Empower Network is a huge festering boil on the butt of legitimate
          MLM that's saying something.

          First... they wouldn't have been shut down a long time ago. They haven't
          been in business a long time. Trust me, though... EN is a huge headline grabbing
          legal case waiting to happen.

          Second... you have no idea how much the company is worth. It's privately
          held. All you know is what the Davids feel like telling you today.

          Third... the issue that will bring EN down isn't anti-pyramid laws. It will be
          plain old fraud. This "deal" (I don't recognize it as a legit business) has grown
          100% on the fraudulent inducement of illegal income claims. The number of
          people who bought into this thing because they wanted to pay $25/mo for a
          blogging platform is nearly non-existent. It was all about the hyped up money
          claims which continue to this day.

          Good luck with all of that.
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  • Profile picture of the author OldLodgeSkins
    SunilTanna has a point here, this is something that is often overlooked: in a real MLM you must be able to buy the product and use it, without participating in the money making op.
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    • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
      Pyramid schemes would not have a product and you pay just for the "right" to be a member. You may need to do some operation inside their system every day in order to be paid. Then they will show you the option to earn more by "investing" your money. Then the whole system crashes and those who entered and invested not one of the first losing every thing. In fact those people who entered first may not even realise what they are doing something wrong by inviting people because they earn at the beginning.

      MLM - has a product that helps in any way. Any thing from online video communications to cosmetics, from cleaners to food supplements.
      However before joining you need to understand that MLM is not "free money dropping in to your pocket". You have to work hard at the beginning to earn every penny and only when you will build a base of returning customers and working down-line you will be able to work in a more relaxed way.
      MLM offers early retirement option as if you work harder you get to the better results soon.
      Today there are some MLM projects that eased the process where your customers already your down-line. Their products are online tools or services of a good quality that would help a lot of people and when someone sign up for that service using your affiliate link you not only getting a sale, but a down-line member as well. Then he trays those products or services, likes them and company shows him/her an opportunity to earn by recommending those products or services to other people.
      Also wanted to point to the pyramid definition:

      Traditional business is the same pyramid scheme if the definition is that people at the top earn the most of the money and those at the bottom work hard and paid the least of money.

      Owner at the top gets most of the money.
      Different levels of managers - as higher as bigger wages.
      Supervisors - less money again.
      General employees - in most cases work like a slaves, do the hardest work and get the least money then any one else in the company.

      Problem is never in the "form" the business build by. What ever business you do should have a product (online or offline) that is helpful to people who buy it and you know what you are selling. Not some money making scheme, but real product and earnings form sales not from "air".
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      Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
      Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

        Pyramid schemes would not have a product
        This isn't necessarily right at all!

        Countless illegal pyramid schemes with plentiful products have been closed down by regulators and courts in Europe and in North America, and they continue to be.

        Whether or not something is an illegal pyramid isn't necessarily determined by whether or not it "has products" at all.

        Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

        Today there are some MLM projects that eased the process where your customers already your down-line. Their products are online tools or services of a good quality that would help a lot of people and when someone sign up for that service using your affiliate link you not only getting a sale, but a down-line member as well.
        You're living a little dangerously, aren't you? You were complaining only the other day that you've already been banned once for promoting MLM here?

        Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

        Traditional business is the same pyramid scheme if the definition is that people at the top earn the most of the money and those at the bottom work hard and paid the least of money.
        That isn't the definition of anyone I know.

        It's just an extremely weak, fallacious and slightly desperate "line" sometimes used by people over-anxious to promote their MLM opportunities.

        Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

        Problem is never in the "form" the business build by.
        On the contrary. According to large numbers of court rulings, the problem is commonly the "form" by which the business is built. Soi-disant MLM companies (in fact declared by courts to be illegal pyramids) are regularly closed down for not making genuine retail sales to genuine retail customers, for pretending that "distributors' personal product consumption" is "retail sales", for selling the right to promote the business opportunity, and for financially rewarding the sponsoring of new distributors without genuine sales of the company's products/services being made. The "form" by which the business is built can be highly relevant to whether or not something's held by a court to be a legitimate MLM company.
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        • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          This isn't necessarily right at all!

          Countless illegal pyramid schemes with plentiful products have been closed down by regulators and courts in Europe and in North America, and they continue to be.

          Whether or not something is an illegal pyramid isn't necessarily determined by whether or not it "has products" at all.



          You're living a little dangerously, aren't you? You were complaining only the other day that you've already been banned once for promoting MLM here?



          That isn't the definition of anyone I know.

          It's just an extremely weak, fallacious and slightly desperate "line" sometimes used by people over-anxious to promote their MLM opportunities.



          On the contrary. According to large numbers of court rulings, the problem is commonly the "form" by which the business is built. Soi-disant MLM companies (in fact declared by courts to be illegal pyramids) are regularly closed down for not making genuine retail sales to genuine retail customers, for pretending that "distributors' personal product consumption" is "retail sales", for selling the right to promote the business opportunity, and for financially rewarding the sponsoring of new distributors without genuine sales of the company's products/services being made. The "form" by which the business is built can be highly relevant to whether or not something's held by a court to be a legitimate MLM company.
          All legal direct sales businesses are registered with DSA and no illegal scheme would get on their list.
          The requirements are very high in fact.
          I do not live a risky life. I secured my future with MLM. And it does not matter how many times someone will ban me I still earning good money from MLM, taking holidays when ever I want and have 2 ladies who work in my house too keep it clean, look after my 4 kids and cook when I do not have time. Also I have a gardener.
          Being a member of this forum does not change any thing in my life.
          I know MLM is not a scam and BAN WAS AN ABUSE not to me only but the the whole industry. In fact I never promoted any of my links on this forum. Also I never offered any face opportunities to any one because I am not involved in any. All my businesses come with a professional training and help achieve first $1000 a month. More real that any thing, lol.

          No fake pyramid scheme would never have a product. At least that what can be considered as product. Every product in any niche requires to be legal and have some documents to prove that. That is what I mean about pyramids not having a product. And again if company is not registered with DSA it is same warning fact as if they would sell illegal product.
          In fact in UK, with the new governmental cup on benefits, JSP advisor provide as one of the options to the people who are affected my cup to join MLM as a secure way to earn money. Few of my friends came to me after JSP appointment to ask how to start working in MLM. Their health does not allow them to get in to the employment.
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          Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
          Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

            All legal direct sales businesses are registered with DSA
            This is nonsense.

            DSA-registration is optional and involves no significant "objective approval process" at all.

            Many direct sales businesses choose not to register, for very varied reasons.

            You're just chrining out all your "MLM sponsoring lines", here, without actually knowing very much about what you're talking about. Wherever you normally promote your business, that may work for you. It isn't going to work here, because so many people here are rather more familiar with the facts, and the regulations, than you appear to be, yourself.

            When you're in a hole, it's often a good idea to stop digging.

            Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

            I secured my future with MLM. And it does not matter how many times someone will ban me I still earning good money from MLM, taking holidays when ever I want and have 2 ladies who work in my house too keep it clean, look after my 4 kids and cook when I do not have time. Also I have a gardener.
            I'm happy for you. But if you continue to post like that, with your MLM signature-file showing in your posts, my guess is that your stay with us in the Warrior Forum may be a comparatively brief one.

            Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

            No fake pyramid scheme would never have a product.
            This is just wrong.

            Countless illegal pyramids have been closed down by courts without the fact that they had products ever being called into question at all. Countless illegal pyramid schemes with plentiful products have been closed down by regulators and courts in Europe and in North America, and they continue to be. Whether or not something is an illegal pyramid isn't necessarily determined by whether or not it "has products" at all. :p
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            • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              This is total nonsense.

              DSA-registration is optional and involves no significant "objective approval process" at all.

              Many direct sales businesses choose not to register, for very varied reasons.

              You're just chrining out all your "MLM sponsoring lines", here, without actually knowing very much about what you're talking about. Wherever you normally promote your business, that may work for you. It isn't going to work here, because so many people here are rather more familiar with the facts, and the regulations, than you appear to be, yourself.

              When you're in a hole, it's often a good idea to stop digging.



              I'm happy for you. But if you continue to post like that, with your MLM signature-file showing in your posts, my guess is that your stay with us in the Warrior Forum may be a comparatively brief one.



              This is utter nonsense.

              Countless illegal pyramids have been closed down by courts without the fact that they had products ever being called into question at all. Countless illegal pyramid schemes with plentiful products have been closed down by regulators and courts in Europe and in North America, and they continue to be. Whether or not something is an illegal pyramid isn't necessarily determined by whether or not it "has products" at all. :p
              It looks like you don't know much about DSA and it's pre-history.
              There are very high requirements in order to get DSA registration and many companies been refused it year after year.
              No one company I am working with been closed. The first company I joined 18 years ago still on the market and will be there for much longer.
              I am highly support closing down all illegal pyramid schemes so that they would not be a reason for objection for genuine MLM business.
              It is a shame that so many people are missing out because those illegal schemes been misleadingly called MLM. MLM is a huge industry where at this moment few million people on earth actively earning money by helping others.
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              Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
              Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

                It looks like you don't know much about DSA and it's pre-history.
                I know that DSA registration is entirely voluntary, contrary to your assertion above that "all legal direct sales businesses are registered with DSA", which is simply incorrect.

                Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

                It is a shame that so many people are missing out because those illegal schemes been misleadingly called MLM.
                Yes, indeed. Exactly what I said, myself, in my initial post in this thread.

                The reality is that it's often very difficult indeed for the "general public" to distinguish between the two. Plenty of DSA-affiliated companies have been wound up by court orders declaring them to be illegal pyramids. This is simply factual. Unfortunately, DSA membership is far from a guarantee of probity or even of legality.
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                • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  I know that DSA registration is entirely voluntary, contrary to your assertion above that "all legal direct sales businesses are registered with DSA", which is simply incorrect.



                  Yes, indeed. Exactly what I said, myself, in my initial post in this thread.

                  The reality is that it's often very difficult indeed for the "general public" to distinguish between the two. Plenty of DSA-affiliated companies have been wound up by court orders declaring them to be illegal pyramids. This is simply factual. Unfortunately, DSA membership is far from a guarantee of probity or even of legality.

                  DSA is voluntary, but for some reason so many companies work hard to fit their criteria in order to get registration. And DSA registration accepted in most of the European countries + USA, Canada as a prove that it is not a trap.
                  However from other side legality of the company does not guaranty the success. In fact this days if you will check if company or product is legal, in 99% of the cases the answer would be "yes". But people are still trapped.
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                  Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
                  Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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                  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

                    DSA is voluntary
                    You've certainly changed your tune through 180 degrees! But now you have it right.

                    Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

                    DSA registration accepted in most of the European countries + USA, Canada as a prove that it is not a trap.
                    Only gullible people, and people who have been misled by distributors desperate to sponsor others, imagine that it "proves" that.

                    It does no such thing.

                    As stated above, plenty of DSA-affiliated companies have been wound up by court orders declaring them to be illegal pyramids. What this actually proves is that DSA membership is far from a guarantee of probity or even of legality.

                    I'm sorry you're so clearly uncomfortable about that, but that doesn't stop it from being factual.
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                    • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
                      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                      As stated above, plenty of DSA-affiliated companies have been wound up by court orders declaring them to be illegal pyramids. What this actually proves is that DSA membership is far from a guarantee of probity or even of legality.
                      Such statements needs to come with some prove.
                      I know about few companies who had to go to court as a responders to a claim that they are illegal schemes, but they was able to show that they are not during the first hearing.
                      Also when it comes to getting your money back and compensation after the scheme collapse, people often end up claiming against those who invited them there and not the owners, because those owners mystically vanish and very soon starting again using another name and usually registering their business in another country. Fact, lol. Zig is an example it restarted in Spain. However some people who was top earners with Zig project faced huge claims in court from their down-line. Most of the are still in progress and judges find it difficult to make a decisions, because those people was really honestly believing that they offering a genuine business and lost a lot by them self.
                      My friend from Israel was lucky enough to delete his account few month before Zig stopped paying, however many others lost a lot.
                      But all this scams has nothing in relation with genuine MLM.
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                      Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                        Originally Posted by iwowwe4you View Post

                        Such statements needs to come with some prove.
                        Equinox
                        Jewelway
                        World Class Network
                        Omnitrition
                        Fortuna Alliance
                        Futurenet
                        2XTreme

                        All DSA members... all hammered by the FTC... all shut down
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                        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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                  • Profile picture of the author rickwill71
                    pyarmids schemes was outlawed in the 80s. as long as you have a product and a company your fine.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by rickwill71 View Post

                      as long as you have a product and a company your fine.
                      This is incorrect.

                      Countless companies with perfectly real products have been wound up by regulators and/or courts for being illegal pyramids.

                      Whether something is an illegal pyramid is NOT determined simply by "whether or not it has products". There are many other factors involved, too.

                      "Payment for sponsoring", for example, constitutes (in most countries) an illegal pyramid, whether there are products or not.
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                      • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
                        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                        "Payment for sponsoring", for example, constitutes (in most countries) an illegal pyramid, whether there are products or not.

                        Yes, you are right, distributors should be paid from sales not for sponsoring.
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                        Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
                        Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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  • Profile picture of the author amilo70
    Banned
    Owner at the top gets most of the money.
    Different levels of managers - as higher as bigger wages.
    Supervisors - less money again.
    General employees - in most cases work like a slaves, do the hardest work and get the least money then any one else in the company.
    That was poor said, It's like this everywhere. The Owner of the store gets most etc... It's not only in MLM. It's a simple rule. However, you can work your a*s off to become the Owner. That's how you can succeed in marketing.

    One more thing, not all pyramid schemes are illegal but that's what most people think.
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  • Profile picture of the author ziubzia
    MLM isn't a con at all you can make a decent income with mlm.

    however if I say it once I'll say it 1 million times 'do your research' there are great mlm companies out their and there are scammers who use mlm as their vehicle to commit their fraud. Just make sure your dealing with a reputable company.
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  • Profile picture of the author thedanbrown
    People who don't understand the MLM model think it's illegal they think it's a pyramid scheme etc. but ya like you said pyramid schemes are illegal... EN is definitely not a pyramid scheme lol this video might clear things up a tad:

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  • Profile picture of the author ILIDIO CARDOSO
    It is a pyramid if you are just recruiting and getting paid, but not if the people you recruit are selling products. That's why you have to be qualified (sell products) before you are able to make a dime.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ILIDIO CARDOSO View Post

      It is a pyramid if you are just recruiting and getting paid, but not if the people you recruit are selling products.
      As explained very repeatedly, above, that's incorrect.

      It's perfectly possible to be selling products yourself, and for the people you recruit also to be selling products, and for a court still to close the business down as an illegal pyramid, if it is an illegal pyramid. There have been plenty of illegal pyramids with products closed down by the courts. Why on Earth do so many people mistakenly imagine that just "having products" necessarily makes it legal? This is a seriously weird thing to believe, and it's completely wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
    As far as the blogging system is concerned... Correct me (with specifics) if I am wrong, but...

    Given 100% of blog fees are circulated either to the referring affiliate, or that affiliate's upline, does the company earn anything from selling the blog at all?

    It seems me that the company's income is derived entirely from the fees charged for affiliate status. By definition, I would think affiliate membership can not be considered retail sales.
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    ClickBank Vendor?
    - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
    - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
    - Killer Graphics for Your Site
    SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
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    • Profile picture of the author iwowwe4you
      I am very much support genuine MLM business. However when one of the warriors asked me on my opinion on this company I told honestly I would not join them. It is the impression they create that as soon as you join you will get rich. However MLM as any other affiliate business requires time and effort. Also I did not find any thing there that I would consider as a product. Any genuine MLM will offer you a free training from the company and from other distributors. Some how they strangely present every thing, so for me it looks very suspicious.
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      Happy to share 18 years experience in MLM/IM. Not doing any other work for over 7 years now. Accredited as a coach by 3 companies I worked with after completing a course of education and passing exams. HND in Business, Economics, Accounting, Market Research, Market Development, Management.
      Love to Learn - Love to Teach!

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  • Profile picture of the author amilo70
    Banned
    Thank you for your help but it was worthless. We all have our different view of things
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  • Profile picture of the author jpsween88
    I agree with some things that are said about Empower Network. I wanted to find a MLM system that I could market to start making some recurring income. EN just didn't feel right to me. However I do enjoy promoting Pure Leverage. Instead of having a blogging platform, you receive:

    Email AutoResponder up to 5000 (I believe)
    Video Email Capabilities

    Choosing to decide to promote via the "Make Money Online Niche" or the Auto Responder / Email Marketing Niche is completely up to the customer.

    Infact, I target both to try and keep a "balanced" portfolio
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    Please do not use your signature to promote affiliate/MLM programs

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  • Profile picture of the author TravisO
    Some of it is obviously illegal. Those legal MLM, imagine, people just trying to recruit and recruit and thus nothing else to do with their life. There eyes is just targeting for money and of course people just to have money.
    People who engage in MLM can't find satisfactory on themselves and also they cannot enhance their skill with that organization.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Thank you for your help but it was worthless. We all have our different view of things
      Of course it was worthless to you.

      You had already made up your mind to join EN (really bad decision).
      You don't want to hear from experienced mlm people - so join and learn the truth for yourself.

      not all pyramid schemes are illegal but that's what most people think
      Yes, they are - that's why they call them "schemes".
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      It takes nothing away from a human to be kind to an animal.

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  • Profile picture of the author ProfitOmax
    You're right, there is pyramid scam out there, but most of the MLM or Network Company are not scam. Multi Level Marketing is the best business model to generate residual income. It' all about leverage....
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  • Profile picture of the author TravisO
    It's illegal as long as it involves bigger amount of money and no one has ever become improved with their life. Imagine people were paying for this MLM thingy but it seems like they nothing to earn or let's say they have earned but was a really hard thing, like selling products, force talk and something like that just to earn. Therefore, it depends on how it is being done or what is its process.
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