My PayPal Story - The Scammer Wins

30 replies
EDIT: Since all of this went down, the title should be changed to "The Scammer" is now out of business and will never scam anyone again more than likely. It looks like I won afterall. Got most of my money back as well in the process.

I'll give the basic run down of what happened.

Long story short: The account got put to negative $-280 and sent to collections. I don't know if it can even receive payments at the moment all because of how PayPal deals with Credit Card chargebacks.

Basically, this guy charged back 250 or 260 something worth of virtual goods that were sent to him, but he did the chargeback 3-4 months later with the excuse "merchandise not received."

After talking to numerous reps, the only response I would get is, "well while we don't handle virtual disputes, we're going to fight on your behalf. However, it'll be up to the credit card company for the final decision."

So I took a screen shot of all the evidence I had and uploaded it to PayPal. I called once again after nothing had changed for a month and I spoke to a specialist. He looked into my case and basically stated that I had sufficient evidence against the scammer and that it would probably go in my favor BUT to hold tight for 1-2 months to see what the credit card company says while they send over all the information.

One month later, I get an e-mail saying they're taking 40 or 60 something for processing and that the credit card company decided in their favor despite all the evidence I had against them. The guy basically taunts me after he got his money back and says "lol sucks to be you."

I never received notification that he paid with a credit card, nor did I know that cheap scum can do this with a credit card. Basically, if someone charges back with their credit card company, they're going to win and that's just free money that you have to give PayPal.

So now my account is sitting here, -280 and I'm getting calls from collections every day and I'm not 100% sure I can even receive payments in there anymore.
#paypal #scammer #story #wins
  • Profile picture of the author Snowclone
    Man I know the feeling. I got hosed out of almost $5,000 in wordpress work I did. And it was about 9 months after. I provided tons of evidence of completed work and POOF they pulled the money from my bank account.

    Paypal has terrible seller support, absolutely god awful.

    On another note I co-own a very large social followers selling website and we have huge reserves in our PP account just sitting there, untouched cash (in the $XX,XXX) because paypal sees us as a "high risk" - Kind of strange, we've had the site in 2009 and have made about 750k Gross - all processed through paypal yet we're the high risk and basically have lost that money until we close our account down and 180 day have passed.

    Someone will come along in the next few years and blow paypal out of the water. Can't wait for the day.

    Sorry about the loss.
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    What exactly did you sell to him?
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  • Profile picture of the author Snowclone
    Also Corey you can still receive payments in the account, it will just get your balance up towards zero again. Be careful if your paypal account is linked to a bank account, they WILL try and settle that balance, also if you try and buy anything and it's backed up by a debit/credit card, it WILL charge you the full amount to settle the debt. Just a heads up!
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    That's messed up. Google Checkout was notorious with this for me. And i did have 1 chargeback dispute with this guy who bought one of my expensive digital products. But there are many people online who have went through the same thing. I guess you'd have to roll with the punches, lower your prices, or just settle the chargeback and move on. Sorry about the experience though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Lewis
    This is why I have two paypal accounts and friends who will borrow me their paypal accounts if I need it.

    I guess I don't have to really worry though because i'm not making xxx,xxx yet, but when that day comes I hope to be fully ready.

    I hope you get that taken care of soon and that this is just a bump in the road. Go make more money and sales.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Originally Posted by Michael Lewis View Post

      This is why I have two paypal accounts and friends who will borrow me their paypal accounts if I need it.

      I guess I don't have to really worry though because i'm not making xxx,xxx yet, but when that day comes I hope to be fully ready.
      Ironically, if those two accounts are business accounts, your way of handling your fear of Paypal shutting you down actually increases your chances of being shut down because customers can only have one business account.

      Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Well, you could send the guy a demand letter. Letting them know you will be taking to small claims court and contacting the police to file theft by deception charges.

    OR

    Move on and make the money back.

    -g
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    If you have proof as strong as paypal says you do, then that may be proof enough to win a small claims lawsuit against him for the money he owes you, plus court fees and additional damages (emotional and financial). If you can get a good lawyer and start harassing him, he may recant his "sucks to be you" statement once he realizes you are going to be a much larger pain in the ass.

    - Note I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV. Obviously you should be contacting an attorney before you do anything.

    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnV88
    In every business chargebacks will be made you can't stop it. In my new site I recently got an charge back of $289 but when I had word with my buyer I was able to solve his problem & convince him to pull it off , but sometimes you have to deal with scammers..It's part of the game make more sales to cover up.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Lewis
      Originally Posted by Art of Marketing View Post

      @ Micheal, I was just curious how that protects you and if you put a friends paypal in jeopardy isn't that even worse drama? I get it tho to have options.

      -Art

      The only way it helps is if a paypal account gets frozen and I can't get funds out. I imagine if a paypal account gets frozen it isn't easy to issue refunds or do anything. If I was getting a lot of charge backs then there's something wrong with my product and I would shut my product down until I fix things.

      I'm nervous about using Paypal for everything online. When I was doing Ebay they would always put a reserve on everything and hold a percentage of the funds for 60 days.

      Most everyone uses Paypal so it's hard to get away from them but I would consider trying out other merchant services such as Google's check out or Clickbank.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Hugall
    That's not cool I am sure there are ways to get it back, and I know people who would move and heaven and earth to do so. To me eat it and move on to the future earnings.
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    I've learned not to stress too much about these things as the medical bill will be much more expensive. Try to relax and breathe a little.

    A certain percentage of transactions are going to be from low down, good for nothing, lizard lickers. But if you work hard to build a good reputation over the years these situations will be few, and you'll have some great clients in due time. Try to spend more time thinking about what will help you now like pursuing new clients or revenue.

    And if it is a charge back there is only so much Paypal can do. I've had mostly positive paypal experiences.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernest Simon
    I think the problem is not with Paypal but rather with Credit Card companies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Snowclone
      Originally Posted by lincher View Post

      I think the problem is not with Paypal but rather with Credit Card companies.
      This is true. Paypal is the intermediary and merely responding to the chargeback claim from the credit card. As much as I love to hate on paypal, the reality is the credit card company is PROBABLY going to side with their client, not the faceless seller on the internet.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    File a small claim against the perpetrator of this fraud and have the Sheriff serve him at work. A crime has been committed and you are the victim.
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Id suggest contacting kindsvater

    View Profile: kindsvater

    He may be able to give you actual legal advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
    It would be cool if you could take that person to small claims court on one of those judge shows and win the case. That should serve as a message letting a select group of people know that we are on to chargeback scams.
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  • Profile picture of the author kdevarney
    I don't really like paypal but their are not alot of other options as of yet. Here is my horror story with paypal. I first of all messed up and promised a refund on a product before i had actually received the product back, just because i was being a nice guy so don't ever be a nice guy.Anyways I refunded 500 to a client after they gave me a tracking number stating the product had been shipped well to make a long story short I received an empty box. Paypal said the tracking number says it was delivered and they can do nothing for me.
    So don't think as a merchant paypal will protect you.
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    • Profile picture of the author butters
      Originally Posted by kdevarney View Post

      I don't really like paypal but their are not alot of other options as of yet.
      I take it you missed this thread.

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ernatives.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        It's not a paypal problem - it's a bad buyer. It's a risk any seller takes.

        You need to put that money BACK into paypal - and do it quickly. Paypal has basically covered for you and you owe that amount of money.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I don't really like paypal but their are not alot of other options as of yet. Here is my horror story with paypal. I first of all messed up ....
          YOU messed up and blame paypal for not fixing the problem YOU created.
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          • Profile picture of the author J Bold
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            YOU messed up and blame paypal for not fixing the problem YOU created.

            Sorry but HE did not create the original problem.

            He got seriously ripped off by a scamming scumbag.

            His only problem is he hasn't paid back paypal yet for the chargeback.

            But where he stands now, he does need to, unfortunately for him, pay that money back to paypal.

            I agree paypal tried to help him in this instance and I don't really see them as the bad guy here, the credit card company protecting a scammer is the bad guy, but I'm sure somewhere in the TOS it must say in cases like these if they lose their battle with the credit card companies, that he's liable. So not really paypal's fault, but it's not like he asked to get scammed by some lowlife.
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  • Profile picture of the author planbpayments
    If you have a decent sales volume and you want to accept credit cards online, i would always suggest you to opt for merchant account rather than using an eWallet like Paypal.
    Its easier to dispute Chargebacks if you have a direct merchant ID with the acquiring bank unlike Paypal, who are an aggregator.
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  • Profile picture of the author RobinInTexas
    People keep suggesting the OP take the scammer to small claims court. Unless the bad guy lives in the same county or within a short drive, there's no way that's going to do any good.

    If PayPal has turned the account over to a collection agency, the PayPal account is probably done forever.
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    Robin



    ...Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just set there.
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  • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
    Originally Posted by Corey Geer View Post

    I never received notification that he paid with a credit card, nor did I know that cheap scum can do this with a credit card. Basically, if someone charges back with their credit card company, they're going to win and that's just free money that you have to give PayPal.
    Well to start with... this is the type of thing you should have investigated before choosing a payment processor. Almost anyone that uses PayPal knows that they process credit card. In PayPal's defense, at the end of the day it is completely up to the credit card company to decide who gets the money.

    Do you have information about the customer like where they live, their address, etc. by chance?
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  • Profile picture of the author roblawrence
    Sorry to hear about your story. What payment providers do you recommend? It's my understanding that the chargeback process is similar no matter who you deal with. They will try to reclaim the funds because the credit card companies are taking it from them first.
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  • Profile picture of the author Social App Zone
    Been, there. Paypal agreed that the product was delivered, I provided a mountain of proof and in the end Credit Card Company sides with fraudster.

    Which is why I breed sociopathic hamsters...
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    Sorry to hear about your problems buddy.

    As it goes, I'm dealing with one of these low lifes right now so I know how it feels.

    James Scholes
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  • Profile picture of the author Corey Geer
    Why sue him? That won't teach him anything.. when people like that are a problem, they're more than likely not going to show up to any court ruling so the most that can come of it will be a judgment. Since he's doing business on PayPal, Judgments don't get your PayPal garnished at all, so that's a moot point.

    Instead, I had my own tactical advance plan and oh boy did it work. He's now currently out of business and applying to some minimum wage jobs I assume, I got the majority of my money back minus the transaction fee they took which was a measly $27-$30 and my account is fine standing.

    I don't let scammers get away... whether it's $1, $500 or $1,000. I don't care how much it is, the more they get away with something, the clearer message they're receiving that it's ok to do what they do. Will that stop people from doing that world wide? No, but I guarantee the people who have scammed me in the past will think twice before doing it again, I have yet to lose. This one proved to be more difficult due to the Credit Card company I was dealing with but sometimes you have to play a little guerrilla warfare, even in the online marketing world. Fight fire with fire.

    In any event, I learned a valuable lesson. From now on, 100% of the money is upfront (no questions asked), credit card payments are not acceptable and I work at a fixed price that is NOT negotiable. If the lower paying scumbags like that decide not to work with me, so be it. Not much of a loss in my opinion.

    Sincerely,
    Corey (and a new business plan)
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by Corey Geer View Post

      Instead, I had my own tactical advance plan and oh boy did it work. He's now currently out of business and applying to some minimum wage jobs I assume, I got the majority of my money back minus the transaction fee they took which was a measly $27-$30 and my account is fine standing.
      So what did you do? Did Paypal finally rule in your favor due to what you did?

      I'm sure everyone would like to know since now the end of the story has changed.
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