Adobe kills Fireworks, stops selling software (subscription only)

48 replies
If these releases are true, wow. No more CS6/software sales, they're moving to subscription-only models for access to their software. blech:

Adobe kills Creative Suite, goes subscription-only | Business Tech - CNET News

Adobe Doubles Down on Creative Cloud, Adopts Subscription-Only Model | Studio Daily

and they killed fireworks, too. double blech:

The future of Adobe Fireworks « Adobe Fireworks

3 words. no . freaking. way.

I'll keep my cs6 suite and use it for years, I'm sure it'll do just fine for me for the next 4+ years at least.


just what I needed, on top of the "government internet tax" news.
#adobe #fireworks #kills #selling #software #stops #subscription
  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    This has been coming for a while. Did they finally start it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Marty S
      "We understand that Fireworks has one of the most passionate communities on the web, and that this change will be difficult to accept"

      LoL... I think not. The product has definitely outlived it's usefulness in the marketplace. I loved it at first, but it's original niche feature of splicing graphics into HTML has been minimized by high speed internet and photoshop itself.

      As for subscription only services, I also think this is a sign of the times whereby a team can more easily work on projects from remote locations, and individuals can access their work while on the road. It also has a benefit to the company in capturing new (legal) customers and allows Adobe to market additional services to them.

      Hey, a lot of people buy their furniture with monthly payments as a way to own big ticket items, so why can't it work for big ticket software? $50 a month for ALL of the adobe software suite sure sounds a lot better than a fist full of WSOs.
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        "
        Hey, a lot of people buy their furniture with monthly payments as a way to own big ticket items, so why can't it work for big ticket software? $50 a month for ALL of the adobe software suite sure sounds a lot better than a fist full of WSOs.
        Do you mean like paying monthly for autoresponder services instead
        of buying the software? Now how are you going to convince people
        to do that?

        -Ray Edwards
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          I have always thought that Adobe products are over-priced.

          I also think the "cloud" is over-hyped.

          Everyone thinks you have to have certain software to be considered professional. Not so. Only if you follow the crowds.

          I never follow the crowd - I will continue to purchase my non-Adobe software - no subscriptions for me - I have enough monthly bills, thank you.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          Do you mean like paying monthly for autoresponder services instead
          of buying the software? Now how are you going to convince people
          to do that?

          -Ray Edwards
          Convincing people who have already purchased the software and paid thousands for it and upgrades will be the tricky part. Having already given Adobe a boatload of cash, I'm not inclined to give them any more.

          "You should be able to keep whatever version you are at if you decide to end CC. Right now you are held hostage. Bad business!" objected one respondent. Added another, "My workplace will be going from [CS upgrade costs of] $10,000 across 2-1/2 to 3 years to [Creative Cloud fees of] $33,000 once we go full price on these seats. That is an incredible price gouge. And the real problem: we have to do this. We need this software to do our ads, to clean our photos, to make PDFs."
          Survey: Creative Suite users loathe Adobe's subscriptions | Business Tech - CNET News
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    well 99% of the comments on the forums out there disagree, most of us in the world do Not like this... see hundreds of comments on the sites out there, most don't like this forced-subscription no longer owning software biz model. security issues, as well as cost issues, and other points, well made by thousand of comments on the articles out there:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=adob...ient=firefox-a

    subscription rates will of course increase over time most likely, to far beyond the current $840/year cost they are currently priced at. And security/connectivity issues in addition to the cost ones.

    At least it'll be interesting to see ADBE stock price during the months ahead.
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  • Profile picture of the author ivan84m
    There's no way I will pay that for a software I only use sparingly. I think there's nothing to worry, though. Other marketers will also feel abused, which will result in adobe changing things back to how they are (or disappearing) or some other company developing software pretty much like that of adobe and beat them out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marty S
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      • Profile picture of the author heavysm
        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        I wonder how many of those dissenters have legal copies of Adobe software?
        Me thinks it also has a tiny bit to do with those holding and using illegal copies of the software, because there is a ton of that going on.

        Being able to have all their products for a flat monthly fee whilst gaining free updates feels like more of a bonus than anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    Makes perfect sense to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      This is where much software and entertainment is heading. You don't buy software, or get anything on a CD or DVD. Instead, everything is streamed from the net. Music, movies, software, etc. It is another step to prevent piracy, and of course to make more money.

      Ownership of certain things we grew up with, or have taken for granted, will not exist in the years ahead.

      .
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    good points Marty, and Brian -- and I agree re the ease-of-use; for example I much prefer to buying mp3s and games and whatever else "in the cloud" from Amazon/etc, so that makes sense; I don't want to worry about losing a physical disc or other media, cloud-based content makes a lot more sense... if I lose something or the hard drive or physical playback 'whatever' gets lost or damaged, I still can instantly download the software/mp3/game again. And yes I've spent $1,000s on legit copies of Master Collection 6 and prior versions, though I often skip a release, eg CS4 to CS6.

    I suppose it's just the "passing of an era", hard for us old-timers to let go of old habits, as I've used and bought software on disc for my whole life. The comments from many out there are around issues like, what if the 'cloud' goes offline, as it does from time to time, during a critical productivity deadline, what then? and security issues... but I suppose they'll fix all that.

    at least Adobe's stock price has been skyrocketing, lol:

    http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/qui...e=&freq=&show=
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    • Profile picture of the author glooft
      Adobe openly stated that they expect a lot of pushback from a lot of their customers. There will be plenty of angry people out there but software is changing to the subscription model and most people will get used to it in time.

      As for Fireworks? I'm surprised that didn't get axed years ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author KirkMcD
      Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

      what if the 'cloud' goes offline,
      For Adobe, the apps are still fully installed on your machine. They are not run from "the cloud." You don't need to be connected to the net to use them.

      I signed up last year. It was a no brainer, pay $2,250 for the full suite or $50 per month for even more.
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      • Profile picture of the author Farish
        Originally Posted by KirkMcD View Post

        For Adobe, the apps are still fully installed on your machine. They are not run from "the cloud." You don't need to be connected to the net to use them.

        I signed up last year. It was a no brainer, pay $2,250 for the full suite or $50 per month for even more.
        People don't realize, at 50 a month, it takes 45 months to come to this amount. If a person is starting out in design etc, this is a no brainer. It gives you the full suite without having to front load the costs. Also you can get a single app at 20 a month.

        Also if you have an older version of CS they will discount the price for you for the first year.
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  • Profile picture of the author zacsmith
    I was a big fan of having a disc in hand for all my software, until my QuarkXPress install DVD delaminated and was unusable. Have you ever tried to getting a replacement disk? Not pretty.

    At that point, I wish I could just re-download an installation copy.

    That got me thinking "in the cloud" for apps. CS subscriptions are a clever idea, and a reasonable business expense considering the "hard copy" cost of ownership of a few disks.

    I will miss Fireworks, but more from nostalgia than any real use I have for it today.

    zack
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    Right, though it does require you to let it "phone home" every 30 days:

    Adobe Creative Cloud
    ...If you have an annual membership, you'll be asked to connect to the web to validate your software licenses every 30 days.


    So basically we can no longer "own" our software, from now on you can just "rent it by the month". That's the "mother of all continuity programs", with adobe having a hand in your wallet for $50+ bucks a month, forever. Used to be, you could buy say one program like Dreamweaver CS4 and use it for 2-3 years. Now you've got to pay every month to keep on using it.

    And I'm sure the windows crowd will do the same, making you pay annual/monthly fees for windows. No more buying software, it's rental-only continuity from now on. That's a big major shift in all our productivity software. This is extremely major (imho negative) news, like the internet tax. You can't buy your software, you've got to rent it by the month, for all new versions. Really?

    There may be a run on remaining buyout/regular software versions; since it's the end of an era. Glad I own my productivity software, I'll use it for years ahead without paying monthly fees. Though on that FAQ page they do say "We plan to sell Creative Suite 6 for use on supported platforms indefinitely." so that's good news, though I've seen adobe discontinue software (like the recent fireworks announcement, and earlier with ultrakey and other programs) often.
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  • Profile picture of the author jeskola
    Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

    If these releases are true, wow. No more CS6/software sales, they're moving to subscription-only models for access to their software. blech:

    Adobe kills Creative Suite, goes subscription-only | Business Tech - CNET News

    Adobe Doubles Down on Creative Cloud, Adopts Subscription-Only Model | Studio Daily

    and they killed fireworks, too. double blech:

    The future of Adobe Fireworks « Adobe Fireworks

    3 words. no . freaking. way.

    I'll keep my cs6 suite and use it for years, I'm sure it'll do just fine for me for the next 4+ years at least.


    just what I needed, on top of the "government internet tax" news.

    It's a shame, Fireworks is a far superior tool than Photoshop for web design...

    If you are a Mac user you are already phased out of using Fireworks if you plan on upgrading your machine to a newer model with Retina display - Fireworks (and all other Adobe products except Photoshop for now) do not render properly. The only solution is to use a display like a Thunderbolt... so really if you plan on using Fireworks for years to come you best be buying up a non retina display Mac before they are no more.

    I see there is an open source version of Fireworks being worked on which you can sign up for (Google for it).
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    • Profile picture of the author Marty S
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        I would just love to get Adobe completely off my computer.

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  • Profile picture of the author kevbo22
    I personally hated at first as well. But if you think about it, you can get the enitre Adobe collection for $49.99/M, thats pretty good! I use dreamweaver DAILY, so I wont "not" do the adobe CC thing. I will adapt, and im sure, if you use adobe product enough, you will too.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by kencalhn View Post

    ...and they killed fireworks, too. double blech:

    3 words. no . freaking. way.

    I'll keep my cs6 suite and use it for years, I'm sure it'll do just fine for me for the next 4+ years at least.
    Glad I already have all the Adobe products that I want because I would never pay for a subscription to software.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    62€/month for all the (updated/top notch) software and you folks trash Adobe for moving SAAS? Someone is crazy and surely ain't me.

    People spend more then that every month on daily coffee for f#%in sake...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    I'm glad I bought cs5.5 (web premium edition) from the University (for dirt cheap) before they stopped selling physical disks.



    Uni life for the #win.
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  • Profile picture of the author commerce cat
    I've got the CS subscription but I find myself using Acorn for most of my image tasks.

    It's mac only but not the bloatware of Adobe.

    They've got a free trial: Acorn software
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  • Profile picture of the author Kezz
    The one thing I miss from Fireworks is how easy it was to measure out pixels and position things by entering co-ordinates. Wait, that's two things actually.

    But other than that, Photoshop is by far the King of the layer styles, and that continues to set it apart from other design software for me with web oriented stuff. I periodically try other tools, but nothing ever quite stacks up.

    However a lot of Mac users seem to be reporting that Sketch is a pretty solid: Sketch | The designer’s toolbox

    I'd love to give that a whirl if I ever switch to Mac or they release a Windows version.

    However I used to be a Dreamweaver fan, but I've switched over to SublimeText which for coding honestly just leaves Dreamweaver in the dust.

    For me, I don't really mind the new Creative Cloud approach. In same cases it's quite beneficial.

    As an example, periodically I get time to work on some Flash game development. Sometimes that's pure code with an open source compilation process, but sometimes I would like to have the visual interface of Flash for level design.

    So instead of shelling out a hefty amount on the latest Flash so I can work on a game for a few weeks, I'll be able to setup a temporary subscription, do what I want, and then end the subscription again when my time inevitably runs out to work on the game.

    I don't mind it at all. Sometimes it can be better to have that flexibility rather than a big fee, plus future upgrade fees. It's probably not all that different in cost, just spread out, and you're not committed to pay it all if you don't keep using the software.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    They use to have three months for $150, but no more. It is $600 for a full year now. Yeah, this really sux! I like dream weaver. However, I cannot just get one program. Well, good old Adobe wants to make my life even worse. Please tell them to charge monthly because $600 is a lot of money.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Anyone that thinks this Adobe subscription is a bad idea can't do basic math.

    Good grief, you get everything for $50 a month, always the latest greatest features/tools.

    If you have clients, simply roll that $50 over to the client billing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Anyone that thinks this Adobe subscription is a bad idea can't do basic math.

      Good grief, you get everything for $50 a month, always the latest greatest features/tools.

      If you have clients, simply roll that $50 over to the client billing.
      Exactly.

      Some years ago I would run a marathon from Venus to Mars just to have this opportunity. Otherwise, pay 1K for Photoshop, 500€ for DreamWeaver and so on... Now we have all the collection available for a monthly fee.

      It's good money after 12/24 months? Yep, it is.
      It's expensive? No it's not. (Highrise it's 50$ per month and I can't design a magazine with with, to sell later on for 4K... and that is just 1 example)
      It's a great investment to keep up with industry standards? Yes it is.
      It's a time saver? Yes it is. Just use the new versions of PS, DW or ID and you'll see what I mean.
      Can it be cheap? Sure can. Imagine doing a professional video for 900$ (even rookies can do it following Youtube tutorials) and you have your arse covered for one year and you still have profit from that one. Everything else is profit from that one.

      All in all it's a great move by Adobe.
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  • Profile picture of the author emigre
    Graphic designers and those who use more than one adobe software regularly would rejoice for sure. It's a bargain compared to the several thousands you would otherwise need to spend.

    For the rest, just use the previous versions.
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  • Profile picture of the author ratracegrad
    I love the software subscription feature for Adobe and for Microsoft Office. I use to use only 1 Adobe product because the full retail price was at $1k so I could not afford to use any more. Now with the subscription I am able to get almost $10k worth of software for a very small monthly fee. I have started to use the other programs and learn them and this has greatly helped me with my business as I am able to improve my image with the addition of these new products. Plus I can install on multiple computers so I can have them on my mac and pc for both Adobe and Microsoft products.

    The cost of purchasing the entire Adobe Suite and Microsoft Office Premium would easily be over $10k. At $29.99 a month it will take me decades to spend more on the subscription that I would have spent on purchasing the software.

    Another advantage of the subscription is that I get free updates to the latest version of the software. If I had purchased the software I would have to pay a reduced price just to upgrade to the latest version.

    Simple Economics 101 is the subscription provides much more value to the users at a much, much discounted price. It is a no brainer decision to purchase the subscription over purchasing the software.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tekstar
      The best part of this is that you don't have to wait for version updates as they are starting to use a model of just updating when new feature releases come out instead of versions. There's no doubt that I am happy about the subscription model but it will force some to either stay with an older version or go with a totally different product. Might be a good time for Sony Vegas to start a good marketing campaign themselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Can't blame em, adobe is one of the easiest programs to crack with there dlls. They need to be subscription based.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

      Can't blame em, adobe is one of the easiest programs to crack with there dlls. They need to be subscription based.
      no they don't - they are just being greedy.

      any software can be cracked easily by the right people who know how -

      is it so hard to understand that there are people in this world who would rather have less monthly payments then more - that we would rather own things outright?

      I'm one of those. I would rather not be a slave to another corporation.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
        Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

        no they don't - they are just being greedy.

        any software can be cracked easily by the right people who know how -

        is it so hard to understand that there are people in this world who would rather have less monthly payments then more - that we would rather own things outright?

        I'm one of those. I would rather not be a slave to another corporation.
        LOL then don't buy their products.

        They are a business; they do what they do to make money. The fact that they are changing to a subscription-based model means that they've obviously run the numbers and concluded that they can make more by doing things that way.

        I'm routinely baffled by members of this forum who call companies "greedy" and "selfish" simply for charging what they want for products and services they themselves created, routinely maintain and develop. If you don't like what they're doing, the solution is remarkably simple: get your software elsewhere. There are tons of alternatives on the market you can buy for a one-time fee.
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

          LOL then don't buy their products.

          They are a business; they do what they do to make money. The fact that they are changing to a subscription-based model means that they've obviously run the numbers and concluded that they can make more by doing things that way.

          I'm routinely baffled by members of this forum who call companies "greedy" and "selfish" simply for charging what they want for products and services they themselves created, routinely maintain and develop. If you don't like what they're doing, the solution is remarkably simple: get your software elsewhere. There are tons of alternatives on the market you can buy for a one-time fee.
          You don't need to talk down to me because I believe there is such a thing as corporate greed - which I believe this is in Adobe's case. There are a lot of other far more important people than me saying the same thing.

          And I already own other software - because I have always thought Adobe products were over-priced and resource hogs. I call it bloatware - my opinion- but hey, if you love Adobe and want to continue paying and paying, and paying - be my guest - it's your money, after all.
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      • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
        What you said is any software can be cracked did you not. Well go get a cracked copy of xrummer and see how you do with it. Or scrapebox or any software that is updated on a constant basis.
        Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

        no they don't - they are just being greedy.

        any software can be cracked easily by the right people who know how -
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

          What you said is any software can be cracked did you not. Well go get a cracked copy of xrummer and see how you do with it. Or scrapebox or any software that is updated on a constant basis.
          yes, I said any software can be cracked - (you are trying to make me look like I condone it, I don't!) because there is evidence of that everywhere - and I've been online since 1997 and seen my share of stuff floating around online.

          I personally would not risk using cracked software - That's like asking for a virus. But I do search and find PAID OR FREE ALTERNATIVES to popular software at a fraction of the cost - for example I can come up with 6 or 7 very good alternatives to Adobe Reader - that use far less resources, and don't "dial home" like Adobe software does.
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    • Profile picture of the author IMDESTROYER
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      Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

      Can't blame em, adobe is one of the easiest programs to crack with there dlls. They need to be subscription based.
      that is soooo true!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Not web based, you might get in but your not staying there. And your right any software can be cracked, Why don't you download a cracked copy of scrapebox or xrummer and let me know how that works for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

      Not web based, you might get in but your not staying there. And your right any software can be cracked, Why don't you download a cracked copy of scrapebox or xrummer and let me know how that works for you.

      I never said I use cracked software - I said I don't buy Adobe software - I use paid alternatives - they do me just fine - thank you, though
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  • Profile picture of the author IMDESTROYER
    Banned
    but what if i don't have internet at the time. How am i suppose to develop anything?
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  • Profile picture of the author IMDESTROYER
    Banned
    PS people, this only means that the market has opened.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slate Marketing
    I don't think it's that bad a move, depending on how many of their software programs you use. Usually, you would get 2-4 years out of a purchase (at most) before really needing to upgrade, but you'd also have to sometimes shell out $2,000+.

    Now, you can use EVERYTHING for $50 per month which isn't bad. When you look at the costs of running an online business versus the costs of running an offline business, $50 per month is nothing, especially for what you can do and create with their software.
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