If you're approving affiliates check the infractions tab...

by Big Al
15 replies
There is an affiliate here who posts semi-regularly and seems 'ok'.

So I approved them and the only sale they have made has turned into an unauthorized payment claim with Paypal.

I have emailed the buyers and obviously heard no reply.

Maybe this is legit. Maybe it is a genuine affiliate sale and the affiliate just happened to have some loser on their list

Anyway I've never looked at the 'infarctions tab' and there are two previous from two different WSO sellers who have said the exact same thing.

If we can't have these affiliates removed from Warrior Plus I think we do need to use this so we can raise awareness.

Anyways... we've all be told not to approve people we don't know 100% so my bad. But we can look out for each other too.
#affiliates #approving #check #infarctions #infractions #tab
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    If you get only one sale from an affiliate and it is disputed this way, PLEASE give them an infraction. Same for multiple sales all resulting in disputes.

    If you experience this and see similar complaints from other sellers, mention that in the infraction comment. That will alert the mods to check into the account.

    If you're using WarriorPlus, DigiResults, JV Zoo, or some other 3rd party affiliate system, report it to them directly, too. I don't know if they have the ability to track disputes, but either way, this can provide them data that may be useful in spotting patterns left by fraudulent affiliates.

    Patterns are a huge help in spotting the creeps before they can do their damage. They're also far more convincing evidence than a single incident, which could have any number of explanations that don't necessarily reflect on the affiliate.


    Paul
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    • Hi Guys and Gals,

      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Patterns are a huge help in spotting the creeps before they can do their damage. They're also far more convincing evidence than a single incident, which could have any number of explanations that don't necessarily reflect on the affiliate.
      Yes, Paul is right. Multiple infractions would be a great help.

      I've had this happen to me twice. On each occasion, there were three or four 'sales'/unauthorized claims before I realized what was going on.

      The problem is, PayPal freezes the cash and then refunds the full amount about ten days later. And it's only then can you activate the Warrior+ dashboard to claw back the affiliate commission.

      In both my cases, I was lucky because the affiliate accounts were still active, so I got the affiliate commissions back instantly.

      But I wonder if it's a case of the 'buyer' being in cahoots with the affiliate and - hoping we'll forget to claw back the commission when the PayPal claim is resolved in their favor.

      Looking at the stats now, I see both these affiliates had a conversion rate of over 50% on about seven clicks. I'm pretty good at writing sales copy - but not THAT good.

      Needless to say, here's another vendor who is now ultra careful whom he approves as an affiliate.

      Warmest regards,

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Paul Hooper-Kelly View Post

        Yes, Paul is right. Multiple infractions would be a great help.

        In both my cases, I was lucky because the affiliate accounts were still active, so I got the affiliate commissions back instantly.

        .....
        But I wonder if it's a case of the 'buyer' being in cahoots with the affiliate and - hoping we'll forget to claw back the commission when the PayPal claim is resolved in their favor.

        Looking at the stats now, I see both these affiliates had a conversion rate of over 50% on about seven clicks. I'm pretty good at writing sales copy - but not THAT good.
        Infractions only help if the affiliate is from Warrior Plus. JVZoo isn't connected to the affiliate's WF account, so you don't really know who they are, so you can't really check WF infractions.

        The one big way to stop it is to put affiliates on delayed payments and don't pay them for 60 days. No chargebacks, they get paid. Problem is, I don't think Warrior Plus has delayed payments, do they? JVZoo does and I wouldn't pay anyone from there for 60 days unless you really know them and trust them.

        Warrior Plus really should implement delayed payments if they don't have it and I never found it.

        EDIT: It's likely that the affiliate and the "buyer" are one and the same. Affiliate gets a bunch of stolen credit card numbers and uses them to purchase products he's promoting, gets the commission and then the real credit card owners see their statements and do a chargeback.

        In my case, by the time I knew what was going on, they not only cleared out the funds from their Paypal accounts, but they shut the accounts as well (except for one and I was able to get that one commission back, but still lost both the sale and the chargeback fee).
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        • Hi Guys and Gals,
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          It's likely that the affiliate and the "buyer" are one and the same. Affiliate gets a bunch of stolen credit card numbers and uses them to purchase products he's promoting, gets the commission and then the real credit card owners see their statements and do a chargeback.
          I wonder if stolen credit card details are part of it, because - surely - stolen credit cards are reported and blocked. Maybe a more likely scenario is for the affiliate to team up with 'buyers' who have their own genuine credit cards or PayPal accounts.

          That's why the claims come in within hours. Whereas, if the credit card details were stolen, the owner of the stolen card would not be aware of the purchase for some weeks, until their credit card statement arrived.

          The other thing I noticed - because this was on a dime sale - that nothing like this happened until the price had risen from less than ten bucks to over $30.

          Yes, I always use a 60 delay on JVZoo which - strangely enough - means that most affiliates accepted on this basis then go on to produce ziltch.

          Anyway, off to see if I can put an infraction on the two affiliates who tried to stiff me.

          Sorry to hear you've lost money on this, sbucciarel - guess I'm one of the 'lucky' ones who only lost time and had my reputation with PayPal dented.

          Regards,

          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Paul Hooper-Kelly View Post

            Hi Guys and Gals,


            I wonder if stolen credit card details are part of it, because - surely - stolen credit cards are reported and blocked. Maybe a more likely scenario is for the affiliate to team up with 'buyers' who have their own genuine credit cards or PayPal accounts.

            That's why the claims come in within hours. Whereas, if the credit card details were stolen, the owner of the stolen card would not be aware of the purchase for some weeks, until their credit card statement arrived.
            They don't physically steal the credit cards, so the credit card owner doesn't know about the theft until they get a statement.

            5 Ways Thieves Steal Credit Card Data | Bankrate.com
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  • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
    Yeah something needs to be set up where we can at least score
    the affiliates from an "All-Round" kind of perspective.

    The amount of affiliates I have on board is crazy!

    The amount of them that even bother to go out of
    their way to write a request to become an affiliate
    and then don't even send a single click is a HUGE
    PUZZLE to me.

    I know it tells us to check their back ground at Warrior+
    but I think there could be room for improvement definitely.

    All the best guys
    Regards
    Gavin
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Gavin,

    Anything along those lines would have to be handled through the affiliate systems. We don't have access to the data we'd need to verify reports or analyze percentages.


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    If you see a history of sales that result in unauthorized claims via Paypal, I'd tend to believe that the affiliate is using stolen credit cards for these sales, they then make the commission and withdraw it before the unauthorized claims hit your account. If this is a Warrior Plus or JVZoo affiliate, I'd report the transaction to them right away and I would also disapprove them as an affiliate before they can do more damage.

    It happened to me before ("affiliate" using stolen credit cards) and it cost me quite a few bucks to pay all the chargebacks and he/she of course, got to keep the commission. It wasn't in their account any longer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Al
    I have raised it with Warrior Plus and had a reply.

    They obviously have to look into it fairly before doing anything but -- fingers crossed -- this person will be going bye-bye.

    Lesson learned the hard way.

    To be honest I thought they were just buying through their own affiliate link but too cowardly to ask for a refund from me. I never thought about credit card fraud which is even more of a reason to do our due diligence better.
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  • Profile picture of the author espe
    They might be doing this to buy your product cheaper from their own aff link maybe?
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    • Profile picture of the author Charlotte Tomey
      Stolen credit cards and unauthorized purchases aren't the only problems. We had someone use a cookie in a post on a WSO and were taking affiliate commissions from people. JV Zoo caught it quickly though, and were able to resolve it. The safest thing to do is report these people and ONLY allow those who you know to promote your products. I know it's tough to turn someone down that could potentially make you money, but it could save you a lot of time and money in the long run. I'm Liz Tomey's affiliate manager and she has me check everyone out thoroughly before putting them on instant commissions. You could easily hire someone from over at oDesk to do that for you too.
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  • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
    The amount of them that even bother to go out of
    their way to write a request to become an affiliate
    and then don't even send a single click is a HUGE
    PUZZLE to me.
    I've been wondering about this a lot.

    Are they just trolling for people who will approve them for instant payments and have no intention of promoting your product?
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    All The Real Marketers Are Gone. There's Nothing Left But Weak, Sniveling Wanna-Bees!
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    Yep - all we can really do is give them an infraction and be more careful next time...

    As you know from our PM - I was one of the sellers that gave the "affiliate" an infraction.

    Cheers,
    Coby
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    1 or 2 such problems might be expected over time. I once got a sale, and couldn't understand why the sale wasn't completed. I processed her order, and sent it to her with my personal apologies. She SWORE she never ordered it, though I had ALL of her details. I reversed the charge, of course, but WHO KNOWS the real story?

    I had two customers that had third party software I supported that got some jerk testing a lot of credit cards. That was all logged, so we KNEW it wasn't legit. Authorize.net said this was a common ploy!

    Mark Joyner had code in his software to allow a given visitor only THREE failed attempts! BTW I have bad eyesight, and sometimes CC companies play tricks, so I don't know if three is enough. I think **I** might allow 10.

    There are so many easier, and more anonymous, ways to check numbers that it is amazing they bother with the average person here.

    WHY does this happen?

    1. Some *****MORONS***** don't even know how to validate a CC# on their own, and pick random ones hoping to hit on one that works. After all, some sites give you a better than 1 in 10,000 chance of hitting a valid number, with almost random sequential numbers.

    2. THIEVES may have a card, and want to test it anonymously FIRST.

    So don't feel that one bad sale means THEY are at fault. And people that test cards in this way almost *****NEVER***** leave a valid address or email. After all, they don't want to get caught.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Charlotte,
      We had someone use a cookie in a post on a WSO and were taking affiliate commissions from people
      Brian and I spoke about this way back, and he was looking for data to figure out a way to block cookie stuffers using his platform. I haven't seen one from a JV Zoo affiliate in a long time.

      If you can get the link that's posted to set the cookie, you can find out every hop in the chain. Just go to WhereGoes.com and paste the URL in and click the "Trace URL" button.

      I can tell you from experience that Andy Fletcher, Mike Lantz, and the guys at JV Zoo take this stuff very seriously, and they act on these reports when you give them something to work with. Cookie stuffing, spamming affiliates... you name it.

      Works for finding the affiliate platform and ID behind a lot of the spam you get, too. Check those regularly, and you'll start seeing some interesting patterns.


      Paul

      PS: If you want to see a fun way to find cheap ad sources, check out the page on that site at http://www.wheregoes.com/advertisement_link_tracker.php
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