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I Honestly Have An Ethical Issue With Selling Online Products

by MaxTheMarketer
46 replies
Hello there dear Warrior! My name is MaxTheMarketer and thank you very much for reading this...

For the several months I have had many ideas in my head of creating a blog (I have a one, but with no content), Twitter, Facebook, YouTube-page and publish tons of value there to gather e-mails, JV-opportunities and so forth.

But I still have an issue with actually selling something to a human being. The thing is this: on a freelancing site such as Fiverr, I sell a very concrete and measurable product: English to Swedish translation service.

With this "gig/product" the person can always be assured she or he will receive concrete and measurable results (a certain amount of words professionally translated to Swedish from English).

However, compare this product to a product where you claim, "Get 3 Leads/pay with this system" or "Lose 10 pounds of fat in 1 week" or "Double your sales with this Salesletters template".

These promised results, I know, are harder to deliver as they depend more on the end-user's (the buyer's) actions rather than mine. Just because one watches my "7 Module Squeeze Those Leads Now" (no it doesn't exist, so it's not a plug), doesn't mean they will get exactly 3 leads every day even though they might follow through the system.

The world is more complicated than that, imho, compared to my translation product where results depend 100 % on my actions and rather simple actions: translate -> deliver.

What I am trying to ask for discussion, is the ethical ramifications (if I may use a fancy word) of selling online products where results are mostly dependent on the end-user's actions rather than our, the sellers' actions.

Of course, you could sell a service where you do all the work but then you also have to deliver and maybe there is no market for the market your buyer wants you to succeed in, and then of course, you mention that beforehand.

I am just curious about your thoughts about claims and defining the word "product". Is it really a "product" if your buyer doesn't get results with it even if they try their best to use it? Should we as sellers just blame them for that?

I just need get my head around this one. After that, I will be creating content a like a content-creation machine with no stops or ends! I guess, one might be selling "the illusion of results" but that shouldn't be something we should strive for, or should we?

Imho, I want to be able to sell something as predictably measurable and concrete as my translation "product" as anything else, or is this something impossible if you would like to sell a lead-getting product, salesletters-product or anything else marketing-related?

How do you deal with this ethical issue of selling online products?

Thanks in advance for participating in this discussion!

Take Care & Have A Sunny, Warrior! / Max "MaxTheMarketer" K.
#ethical #honestly #issue #online #products #selling
  • Profile picture of the author Ben Holmes
    What it seems that you're asking for is a provable benefit to the buyer.

    That's never going to be possible... the information I sell to one person will make him financially independent - the next person that buys it will read it, figure that he can't do it, and will be basically worthless.

    If you sell information - you can't force your readers to act on that information.

    As long as you've been honest enough to explain what you're selling, and that the information you sell meets that expectation, I don't see any problems...

    At least, those are my thoughts on the matter...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jim2564
    The easy way to approach this dilemma is to do what's right for you. There are more people than you think who have this type of outlook on selling "how-to" products online. Some people take the "I have to put food on my table" approach and sell whatever people are buying. It doesn't matter what it is (porn, gambling systems, etc.)

    Other people draw the line and would rather starve than create, market or promote that kind of product.

    If everyone was selling how-to-get-rich products... that doesn't mean it's right for you anymore than if creating porn membership sites with Wordpress became the norm in the Internet Marketing community.

    If you don't believe in what you're creating, marketing or promoting online - you'll never succeed in a big way because your heart will never be 100% in what you're doing over the long haul.

    If you feel good marketing a service, leverage that business model and have bring on others to help you - taking a percentage of what they produce. Obviously you can't do that with Fiverr and make a lot of money, but the principle will work in your local economy very well in most cases.

    The point is, accept that fact that you have certain ethical beliefs and don't look for a counter argument from anyone else to talk you out of them. Be who you are and be happy!
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  • Profile picture of the author Romeo90
    You cannot please all of the people all of the time. That is a fact.

    Personally, I am uncomfortable about recommending products or services of which I have not used or if I have used it, found it to be not up to standard.

    I use a basic test which I ask myself every time I recommend something: Would I recommend something to my family that I wouldn't be comfortable using myself? In the same vein, would you recommend a restaurant to a friend, if you had never eaten in that restaurant? The answer is no.

    I think the answer you should look for is within the above; if you genuinely believe in a product or service, then recommend it. If you don't, then don't recommend it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I am just curious about your thoughts about claims and defining the word "product". Is it really a "product" if your buyer doesn't get results with it even if they try their best to use it? Should we as sellers just blame them for that?

    I just need get my head around this one. After that, I will be creating content a like a content-creation machine with no stops or ends! I guess, one might be selling "the illusion of results" but that shouldn't be something we should strive for, or should we?

    Imho, I want to be able to sell something as predictably measurable and concrete as my translation "product" as anything else, or is this something impossible if you would like to sell a lead-getting product, salesletters-product or anything else marketing-related?

    How do you deal with this ethical issue of selling online products?
    No, it's not impossible. Personally, I think you're confusing ethics with your own personal preferences based on your own subjective values. There's nothing wrong with that, but you have to realize that not every product or service works like how you've just outlined. With many products out there, the buyer has to do their part if they want to get results. That's not an ethical dilemma, that's just the nature of the beast.

    I have an offline coaching service where clients come to me for dating advice. I give them a free initial 15 minute consultation and once they hire me, they sign an agreement where they understand that they have to take action to get the results they want. They are given specific actions (homework) that they have to take and they have to record those actions in a journal.

    I also have a line of products that gives people dating advice. The advice that I give is based on years of in-field experience, the experience of my students, etc. If someone takes that information and does nothing with it or doesn't implement it the way it's supposed to, that doesn't fall on me entirely.

    Most of my products have a refund policy, so really, I'm the one taking most of the risk here.

    If selling something more predicable will help you sleep better at night, then go for it. But again, I think you're confusing ethics with personal preference in your examples. Your intent is to help people, not rip them off. I don't see an ethical dilemma where you want to help solve a specific problem.

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author TheEye
      It comes down to providing value.

      If a person paid you for but never read your translation, would you feel that it is your fault?

      If you told a person how to get 3 leads per day and the person took no action, is it your fault?

      You create a product, that under normal conditions, will get a result if they follow the system. They then decide not to follow it. Is it your fault?

      Recipe books are created. They contain multiple recipes. Should the author feel guilty that if the reader does not cook every meal in the book.

      It comes down to what your motivation is. If your motivation is to make money by pedaling a product that will help no-one then it is unethical.

      If you know how to solve a problem that another person has and you keep it from them, this is unethical.

      To be ethical, you must supply the information in a way that the person can use it.

      You must do your best to ensure the person can use it. You could give the information away for free but people do not value things they get easily.

      You need to make the person value what you are giving them or they will not use it and continue having the problem.

      You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. It has to be thirsty. But it would be morally reprehensible to leave the horse to die of thirst because it might possibly not want to drink.

      It comes down to the frame of mind you approach this with. Approach it with the attitude that you will do everything in your power to make the person successful and you will never have moral issues.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      I think you're confusing ethics with personal preference in your examples. Your intent is to help people, not rip them off. I don't see an ethical dilemma where you want to help solve a specific problem.
      This. Exactly.

      Originally Posted by MaxTheMarketer View Post

      How do you deal with this ethical issue of selling online products?
      In my opinion, everything you've described is a moral issue, not an ethical one at all, Max.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Sell software, tools, or plugins. That way you don't need to make any silly claims. Just show them exactly what the tool does and it should sell itself.
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    • Profile picture of the author bluebagger
      I struggle with the same problem myself. I almost feel an obligation to anyone who buys something through me to make sure they do well with it, otherwise I feel like I have ripped them off or let them down in some way.

      This is the solution I can offer you:

      If you are promoting in the internet marketing niche, only promote products that you use. Wordpress themes, courses, plugins, software and whatever else you use that has made your business better. My personal view is that although it means you are promoting less products, you are building a far more loyal following which leads to greater conversion rates on the products you do promote and a higher chance of people buying multiple products through you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by bluebagger View Post

        I struggle with the same problem myself. I almost feel an obligation to anyone who buys something through me to make sure they do well with it, otherwise I feel like I have ripped them off or let them down in some way........
        Bluebagger, I'm really curious why would you "feel like" you "have ripped them off" if the information you are selling truly works?

        If the information you are selling does work, why would you feel like you have "ripped" them off if the buyer didn't do their part?

        I'm genuinely curious because I cannot empathize with that notion.

        I think Will R. hit the nail on the head: for being who struggle with this, selling software, word press themes, plug-ins, etc. would probably be better.

        RoD
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        "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
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        • Profile picture of the author bluebagger
          Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

          Bluebagger, I'm really curious why would you "feel like" you "have ripped them off" if the information you are selling truly works?

          If the information you are selling does work, why would you feel like you have "ripped" them off if the buyer didn't do their part?

          I'm genuinely curious because I cannot empathize with that notion.

          I think Will R. hit the nail on the head: for being who struggle with this, selling software, word press themes, plug-ins, etc. would probably be better.

          RoD
          Hi Rod,

          I know logically I should not feel this way and I also know the buyer needs to do their part, but unfortunately I can't help the way I feel. I just work around it and keep telling myself not to feel that way because it is not my responsibility what people do after having bought something. My feelings are certainly not justified, but they are there nonetheless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Then do your readers a favor...research the best prices you can find on particular items. When the products have an affiliate program, use your link. If they don't, post them any way.

    For example, I made up my mind as to a particular digital video camera I want. Amazon.com has a good price for it at about $270. However, I also found refurbished cameras (same model) for half that price on Ebay.

    I could create a page/post for this, offering my research to potential customers and let them make their own decisions based on my research, providing them with solid info. And, I'm an affiliate of both services.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    If it's an honest business model that works for those who put in the effort I have no problem selling it. I once had a discussion with a guy who had been in the real estate investing seminar business for 25 years. He told me that his and other companies had come to the conclusion that only 3 percent of the people buying "how to make money" courses ever made any money. And that only 10 percent of them even looked at the material after taking it home.

    I asked him how he could sleep at night knowing that. He chuckled and said that he knew the info was top quality and it wasn't up to him to try and figure out who would do it and who wouldn't.

    Most people are in love with the idea of having money and nice things but they're apparently not in love with what it takes to get it. Success takes a certain amount of discipline but it's far easier to tune in to American Idol or hang out on Facebook all day wasting time. And that's not your fault. As long as you're on the up and up and don't lie about what you're offering it's not up to you to judge who will make it and who won't.
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  • Profile picture of the author leoghi1982
    The buyer must be smart, too. Even if the product is real (not a scam), the person who is buying should be an adult (not a child that believes in fairy tales) and approach it properly. Nobody sells a business in a box, you have to use the information to build your business and it's obvious that the product won't be the only relevant factor.

    There is nothing wrong with selling ideas or courses... if you think this way, then an university would need to give you the guarantee that after graduating you would become a top notch professional. It's not possible, many people who graduate are horrible professionals, while others a awesome. The university offers the information, just like a product. What you do with it is your problem, not theirs.

    Just my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frederik Jorgensen
    Let's say you're sellling a "method" you used and have worked for you, all you really can say is "Hey guys, I personally used this method to generate 3/leads per day, give it a try and let me know your results". Personally I don't have any ethical issues selling something I know from experience works.

    I may have exaggerated a bit but I hope you get the point ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Arun Chandran
    I used to sell memberships for a local gym and noticed that the members who paid a few thousand for a 3 year membership were often the ones who stopped coming to the gym after 3 or 4 months. A few members even complained that the staff didn't call them to ask why they weren't coming. It was unethical to take the money and not follow up.
    Of course, the gym couldn't give 2 hoots about them and didnt give a single refund.
    It's the action taken that gets the results.
    Buying a "how to" guide doesn't entitle anyone to success... it's the effort and determination to stick thorough it that does. Just my 2 cents. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author dsouravs
    You are sooo Honest and such a Good Thinker

    But there are many who are providing those services and making money and many of those prods or services are crap.

    So I think you should also provide those services and provide those services by sticking to the line called Honesty

    My 2C
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMarketing
    You're quite right in many respects.

    Guru products, WSO's, Biz Ops etc are a pile of shit, and are marketed as if they are gold dust.

    The internet is a HUGE place, and there are a million and one ways to make money online.

    Some of them will match with your ethics, and some won't. However, if you're willing to be flexible with your ethics - there will be a lot more options open to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    If the products that you sell would deliver the results if used
    as recommended, then it's not really an ethical issue, in that
    you can't force people to follow through.

    There are also products where the product creator tells
    exactly what he thinks he did to get the results that he did,
    and another person can follow that product, and not get
    the same results. In some cases, that's the buyer's
    fault. In come cases that's the product creator's fault
    because they misidentified what factors actually delivered
    their results. Experts often can't really see why they got
    the results that they did... they are too close to the
    forest.

    At the same time, if I were you, I would do what I am most
    comfortable with.


    There is a lot of great advise in this thread by the way.

    Willie
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    • Profile picture of the author A Harris
      So sell something that isn't make money online, or lose X amount of weight in a week. Find a niche/product that delivers a solid result. Promote amazon products, or wordpress templates, hosting companies etc... There are a million things you could sell besides making money products or health and fitness products.

      The other option is making your own product. You mentioned you do translations. Is there anything that you could create that you could sell. Maybe an audio or video course on basic conversational translations (i'm spit balling here)?

      Just my two cents..
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  • Profile picture of the author MKCookins
    There is a great quote by Jim Rohn that says...
    "You can’t hire someone else to do your push-ups for you."

    What people are buying is information.

    How they use this information is up to them. Going along with the example above -- if you show someone how to get big arms with push ups, it is then up to them to TAKE ACTION and obtain their goals.

    So I do not have an ethical issue helping people solve a certain problem, or give them valuable information and get paid for doing so
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    You are ethically correct if your method is practical and if it really works for average people.

    For example, when you sell an ebook that teaches someone how to do something you are not misleading your readers if your lessons are clear and if these lessons really help your readers learn what you are teaching them.

    Now, if you will sell an ebook teaching someone how to do something that can be done only if they will follow 1000 steps, but you’ll tell them that they can achieve this goal after following 5 simple steps, then you are a big liar.
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    • Profile picture of the author Plugin Profits
      First of all, not all "online products" are information products. All sorts of products and physical products are sold online.

      What you have problem with is "How To" info products and overstated claims.

      Very simply, just only choose topics and niches that you have a lot of knowledge and expertise in. Don't write stuff you don't even know much about. Then when you write your sales copy, don't over hype or over promise anything, keep it all realistic and honest though highlight the contents of what's in it. Then have honest buyer only reviews of it shown and offer a money back guarantee!

      If people don't have enough follow through to follow the guide or it wasn't what they thought it was going to be, then they can get their money back. If they don't even have enough follow through to ask for their money back, then that's their problem!

      The only thing I have a problem with in this how to info product market is credibility! Too many people writing about things they don't really even know anything about just to make money from it cause there are suckers buying it up.

      Following guides on how to hack together 'info products' on a niche even if they know nothing about it in under a few hours! Pumping out junk products like a machine and slapping some high converting hyped up sales copy on them.

      Opinions I guess. Though I prefer quality over quantity junk!

      I also have a problem with they way a lot of this junk is marketed online, in fake spammy ways with reviews from fake people and other dodgy fake stuff like fake identities/characters, fake stories, fake scarcity and on and on. It bothers me to even be in the same market for fear of people associating me to those marketers or thinking I'd do anything like that when I wouldn't. They hurt everyone's rep!

      Even if you know a lot about a subject and have great advice that'll help people, if you make it into a truly high quality product, then that should take some time and careful thought and editing etc. Not to be a perfectionist, though to deliver the highest quality you could at the time that is the most beneficial.

      When you create out of the perspective and intention of delivering high quality and high value and actually helping people with the information, you create very different products than those who do it out of the perspective of 'exploiting a hot market' only for their own gain.

      Don't think 'like a marketer', think 'like an expert'.

      Even people that don't create their own info products and just sell other people's, the same principles apply cause it effects what products they choose to promote to others and if they care about the quality of what they recommend.

      And like others said, there's so many other products to sell online besides 'how to info products'!
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        What I am trying to ask for discussion, is the ethical ramifications (if I may use a fancy word) of selling online products where results are mostly dependent on the end-user's actions rather than our, the sellers' actions.
        I've been on the fence recently about buying a product seen on an infomercial.

        It's a blender/soup cooking thing and it looks really good.

        I know if I buy this that it's up to me to buy ingredients - and even try the recipes for the soup.

        Just buying the device will not do anything. I need to actually put it to use.

        I think if you are clear with usage and believe in the product you are selling there is nothing to feel worried about or that you are ethically challenged.

        I'm gathering that you feel very confident in what you are selling now.

        It's only a matter of finding other products you feel that same confidence with.
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        • Profile picture of the author Duvallmarketers
          You're confusing what you're selling.

          Info marketers sell information. That is their product. You sell a service... translation. You are not scale-able. Meaning you eventually have to eat and sleep. There is a limit to how much you can make with your service unless you broker translation services to other translators and take a commission.

          With info marketing, you sell your knowledge in pdf, audio or video form. For example, you could sell an info product on how to get into the translation business, get clients, how to price the service, how to deliver the finished translation, etc. You could offer your knowledge as a pdf download, with video tutorials, etc. You could even throw in templates or sample contracts you use in your business... providing everything a beginner would need to know to be successful and reproduce your business.

          The reason you make a bold claim in your sales message is to catch prospective buyers' attention and entice them to learn more about your info product. Of course you should be ethical in your claims and be aware of any legal issues surrounding income claims.

          So... would it be unethical for you to teach people what you know about starting a translation service? You could offer an high-end upsell in the form of coaching to help your buyers be more successful faster. Is this wrong of you to do? Are you cheating your clients by offering them these services? Of course not.

          That's my take on this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
    Dude, you just need to get over it. And make sure your product is good. If people actually take the actions you lay out in your product, and they can get the result predictably and consistently, with some measure of reliability, even if it's only 1 out of 8 times, as long as you communicate that in your product, you're fine.

    You're making a really bad argument for yourself in your mind. If you think about direct response marketing, you can be a really great copywriter and salesman and still bomb like 90% of the time, but succeeding just that one time out of nine can more than make up for the other 8 tries. You shouldn't hold people back just because of the facts of life.

    It's not your responsibility to make sure people use the things you sell them. You're just going to drive yourself nuts.

    Lets say you're the type of person who never fills up your gas tank, but you're going to take a cross country road trip. So you put $80 bucks or whatever in your SUV and maybe you've filled up like three quarters of tank. But next thing you know, your trip gets cancelled. Do you think the gas station should feel guilty for selling you their product, even though now you're not going to use it as you initially intended? Hell no they'd be out of business in no time if they quizzed every customer who pulled up to the pump.

    "Hey bud, you actually going to be driving places today? We wouldn't want you to fill up and then work from home for 3 solid weeks. I mean you could probably hold off until then at the very least." That's just ridiculous.

    Information is amazing but it's just a fact that you have to use it. Information isn't going to leap off the page and take you by the arm and twist you into following the directions. And you can't do it for your customers either. But you can't be worried about that. Why? Because if you got a good product, for the people who do use it, you can totally change their entire lives. And there is about 1-10% of the people you sell to who will use it. So by not selling the other 9 people, you neglect the one guy who might of really made it.

    Think about it.

    Marc
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  • Profile picture of the author GlenH
    Originally Posted by MaxTheMarketer View Post

    Hello there dear Warrior! My name is MaxTheMarketer and thank you very much for reading this...

    For the several months I have had many ideas in my head of creating a blog (I have a one, but with no content), Twitter, Facebook, YouTube-page and publish tons of value there to gather e-mails, JV-opportunities and so forth.

    But I still have an issue with actually selling something to a human being. The thing is this: on a freelancing site such as Fiverr, I sell a very concrete and measurable product: English to Swedish translation service.

    With this "gig/product" the person can always be assured she or he will receive concrete and measurable results (a certain amount of words professionally translated to Swedish from English).

    However, compare this product to a product where you claim, "Get 3 Leads/pay with this system" or "Lose 10 pounds of fat in 1 week" or "Double your sales with this Salesletters template".

    These promised results, I know, are harder to deliver as they depend more on the end-user's (the buyer's) actions rather than mine. Just because one watches my "7 Module Squeeze Those Leads Now" (no it doesn't exist, so it's not a plug), doesn't mean they will get exactly 3 leads every day even though they might follow through the system.

    The world is more complicated than that, imho, compared to my translation product where results depend 100 % on my actions and rather simple actions: translate -> deliver.

    What I am trying to ask for discussion, is the ethical ramifications (if I may use a fancy word) of selling online products where results are mostly dependent on the end-user's actions rather than our, the sellers' actions.

    Of course, you could sell a service where you do all the work but then you also have to deliver and maybe there is no market for the market your buyer wants you to succeed in, and then of course, you mention that beforehand.

    I am just curious about your thoughts about claims and defining the word "product". Is it really a "product" if your buyer doesn't get results with it even if they try their best to use it? Should we as sellers just blame them for that?

    I just need get my head around this one. After that, I will be creating content a like a content-creation machine with no stops or ends! I guess, one might be selling "the illusion of results" but that shouldn't be something we should strive for, or should we?

    Imho, I want to be able to sell something as predictably measurable and concrete as my translation "product" as anything else, or is this something impossible if you would like to sell a lead-getting product, salesletters-product or anything else marketing-related?

    How do you deal with this ethical issue of selling online products?

    Thanks in advance for participating in this discussion!

    Take Care & Have A Sunny, Warrior! / Max "MaxTheMarketer" K.
    Max,

    If you really have that type of ethical dilemma, then you can market tangible products like software.

    If you market 'quality' software, it doesn't need to hyped-up at all and you'll sleep comfortably .

    If you want more details you can PM me
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    • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
      Originally Posted by GlenH View Post

      Max,

      If you really have that type of ethical dilemma, then you can market tangible products like software.

      If you market 'quality' software, it doesn't need to hyped-up at all and you'll sleep comfortably .

      If you want more details you can PM me
      Yea but Max's issue is he DOES want to market and sell information products. Which by the way, software is an information product. Which is a good point...

      Let's say you buy a computer, but you hardly turn the sucker on. Should the manufacturer and the distributor and the sales rep getting $10 an hour at Best Buy be concerned about that?

      HELL NO!
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  • Profile picture of the author mikelmraz
    That is a good question. However, it really depends on how you phrase the product title and contents. If you guarantee anybody can do it, then it is could be stretching the truth a little. If you phrase it as a product that shows people how you did it, it is actually more accurate. Though the latter may sell you less copies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
      Originally Posted by mikelmraz View Post

      That is a good question. However, it really depends on how you phrase the product title and contents. If you guarantee anybody can do it, then it is could be stretching the truth a little. If you phrase it as a product that shows people how you did it, it is actually more accurate. Though the latter may sell you less copies.
      I disagree. You can guarantee that anyone can do it... or their money back. That's what a money back guarantee is for. Anyone CAN implement information, barring any physical abnormality that prevents them. It's having the true grit to carry though the peaks and the valleys that really counts. And you can't measure that. Any argument to the contrary is usually just an internal conflict in your brain.
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      • Profile picture of the author mikelmraz
        Originally Posted by Marc Rodill View Post

        I disagree. You can guarantee that anyone can do it... or their money back. That's what a money back guarantee is for. Anyone CAN implement information, barring any physical abnormality that prevents them. It's having the true grit to carry though the peaks and the valleys that really counts. And you can't measure that. Any argument to the contrary is usually just an internal conflict in your brain.
        You have a good point. I guess it depends on the exact terms of the product and what it claims to do?
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  • Profile picture of the author bss2t
    I certainly commend you for having good character. Too few people do to day in this world. I hear what you're saying, but have to disagree. If you truly believe that what you are bringing to market is a superior/strong product that can help people, then what the people do with that product is totally up to them. Some people will run with an idea, most won't. The 80/20 rule applies to everything. I see nothing wrong with bringing a product to market if you believe in it, and are truthful about your experience with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxTheMarketer
    Thank you very much for your different replies and perspectives on this challenge of mine.

    It is true that if I know that I can deliver certain results to a lot of people, then I should not really worry so much about and it is of course also up to people; I cannot feed them the results but provide them with the right kind of spoon so to speak...

    I actually gave away a few Swedish ads to someone for free and then he paid me a few bucks through PayPal as these ads actually produced concrete results (1-2% CTR) which was awesome news for my knowledge as marketer; I seem to understand wordsmithing.

    This makes me more confident to finally producing some copywriting or other marketing-related products. Beside that, I am also thinking of creating some dating-related products for men as I have experience in this niche in real life as a young man.

    In a Salesletters-formula product I am thinking of creating I want to make the point clear that this formula would "amplify" and "facilitate" the selling process if they are actually selling something people are looking to buy.

    No "magic formula" could ever make people buy something they weren't even looking for in the first place, or in other words, really had no need for in any way, shape or form. Claiming and selling products such ways are what disgust me and what I want to stay away from. Ironically that kind of marketing is also most appealing to people and will produce more sells and here is where I need to balance between the fine line...
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by MaxTheMarketer View Post

      It is true that if I know that I can deliver certain results to a lot of people, then I should not really worry so much about and it is of course also up to people; I cannot feed them the results but provide them with the right kind of spoon so to speak...
      I think this statement sort of illustrates the kink in your thinking. Product creators don't really deliver results. The user needs to get the results on his own. You can lay out the plans, give illustrations, show people where some of the pitfalls are, but still, it's they who come up with results, good or otherwise.
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  • Profile picture of the author Woodward82
    I have a 'simple' answer for this. As long as you put forth the right knowledge it shouldnt matter. College is the same system. They charge an arm and a leg for the knowledge but at the end of the day if the student doesnt use it correctly or put forth the effort then its all worthless.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
      Originally Posted by Woodward82 View Post

      I have a 'simple' answer for this. As long as you put forth the right knowledge it shouldnt matter. College is the same system. They charge an arm and a leg for the knowledge but at the end of the day if the student doesnt use it correctly or put forth the effort then its all worthless.
      Right? How many people have their bachelors degree and up, and are out there waiting tables? I mean you can blame the economy if you want, but when it comes down to it, they made that choice.
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    • Profile picture of the author jefrychen
      Originally Posted by Woodward82 View Post

      I have a 'simple' answer for this. As long as you put forth the right knowledge it shouldnt matter. College is the same system. They charge an arm and a leg for the knowledge but at the end of the day if the student doesnt use it correctly or put forth the effort then its all worthless.
      really true ! you paid alot for education right ? and you know, now even what you learn at college doesnt enough to keep up with rapid changing world we live in today.

      i think we must create product not just based on idea but you can create information product from your testing-fail-success record, simply tell them what works and what doesnt. this information it self can save them alot of time and money.
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      • Profile picture of the author bigcat
        I have absolutely no problem with selling (and buying) information products that are honestly based on the creator's experience and success. As long as the sales description is accurate and it is a quality product.

        I don't like the idea of selling junk that is someone's theory and not based on honest experience.

        Then there are CPA offers. Many of CPA offers have the sole purpose of wringing money out of people who are naive. I have to admit promoting some of these myself, but they don't give me the warm and fuzzies.
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        $30,000 for just one referral???
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Modrov
    This really has become a great discussion. Glad I came across the thread. Well written initial post to be non confrontational with the purpose being to facilitate a great discussion and everyone has delivered.

    There are many products I will never sell and there are many ways I won't try and sell products. I try to sell my products without over doing it and explain the system, the results, success from other customers and exactly what it entails. Results vary per user and the amount of work they put in. I sell exactly what I truly believe in.

    I try to make my guides / courses detailed so they cover the entire subject in step by step form. I am there to provide the customers with support after purchase because everyone has different hurdles to over come.

    Brandon
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Modrov
    Well said Marc. Good call with the money back guarantee!
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  • Profile picture of the author Royhammy
    To me it is not so much a question of selling any digital product that is an ethical issue. If you add value, then it is ethical, as long as you make who can benefit and how value is added. What I think is unethical is to add to the enormous amount of digital junk that is now floating around the virtual world.
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  • Profile picture of the author curly sue
    you will need to first appreciate the value of what internet marketing is about. I started out like you and thought everything about make money online was a scum. But when i educated myself i see it differently now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    You have an ethical issue with selling products or services online? Create and/or sell a product or service that you are passionate about and truly believe in with regards to providing genuine value and I think that your ethical issues will disappear.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Originally Posted by MaxTheMarketer View Post

    Of course, you could sell a service where you do all the work but then you also have to deliver
    That would be ideal and you could charge quite a premium for
    a service like that.

    Keep in mind that if someone is paying $10-$100 for a product
    that teaches them a skill that could conceivably make them
    up to $1,000-$2,000 a week THEY need to be realistic and
    understand that results like that are going to take some real
    effort.

    If you want predictable results deliver the service yourself
    and charge a substantial price for the service.

    That is a good business model.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author Laxmi1968
    If you offer something that has proven to work for you, that IS ethical in my opinion. Like selling a recipe - some chefs are better than others. You can inspire people to combine new insights with existing methods. If you have knowledge, and your intentions are good, you have an obligation to share your knowledge with the world!
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  • Profile picture of the author carnal
    I see nothing wrong in promoting online products.

    As long as you are not hiding any information, I think you are doing an honest business.

    It is up to the customers to make the product work for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxTheMarketer
    Thank you very much once again for your different replies and perspectives.

    I agree that if I sell something based on my own results and experiences, that would be ethical and legit to sell, imho.

    However, let's say I was successful with a MLM-product and I know that this business model is extremely flawed, then that kind of product I would have tons of issues selling further along the "sales tunnel" so to speak..

    I guess what I just realized is that products promising money as results, are the products I would have issues in selling as of now, since I have not succeeded making money myself so it would be extremely unprofessional and dishonest that I would teach other what I am trying to learn myself.

    An interesting idea though, I am having, is to divide up the business model into different steps or products such as:

    * Product for creating Squeeze pages+getting traffic from different sources such as blogs, free giveaways, articles and simple google adwords

    * Product for creating Newsletters+building relationships with your customers so they get more ready to buy from you

    * Product for creating Salesletters which is the most important step as everything else would have been for vain if you cannot finally sell your product

    That is a long-term goal I have, to create these 3 products with different prices.

    As of now, I am having ideas of creating a simple course on "How To Create Your Own Kindle eBook In 1 Hour" as I have tons of experiences in Kindle formatting and therefore these are more tangible results I can deliver and where people's effort are more predictible to produce the results they want; formatting an eBook to Kindle.

    Anyone who's interested or who knows someone who is interested in Kindle formatting? ^^,

    I guess what I have realized now throughout this thread is that selling products where results you promise when people implement it are cash-based, is what I am ethical issues to sell.

    Thank you very much once again for all your different perspectives on this issue! :-)

    Take Care & Have An Awesome Day, Dear Warrior! / Max "MaxTheMarketer" K.
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