How to protect kindle book ideas from illustrator?

11 years ago

You should have some form of written agreement in place that says the work he is creating for you is then owned by you and you only.

Thanks

Signature

.

âž¨ Here's How to Make Your First $177 Online
This Week Using the Piggyback Method...

.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180605].message }}

coreytucker

11 years ago

Would that work though? Just make up an agreement and have him digitally sign it?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180608].message }}

Tom Gates

11 years ago

written agreements are a must.
sadly they dont guarantee that he wont still rip you off. esp if he is in another country and how much are you willing to spend in legal fees to chase him and get situation resolved.

when i was starting out with kindle i had a similar problem. i was advised to publish a text version of my story to kindle. with the few pics i had gathered so far.
using same title i would use on my completed book.

get it submitted, approved and published on kindle. dont worry if you never sell a copy. and dont promote it at all. the point is to have it up there before anybody else does.

from that time, i have used this tactic for all my books. fiction, nonfiction, childrens. everything. i publish it on kindle *before* giving it to proofers, editers, designers.

when i get completed book back, i update old kindle book with new version. most times i unpublish old book and put up new book and then do the promotions.

[ 2 ] Thanks
3 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180615].message }}

coreytucker

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Gates

written agreements are a must.
sadly they dont guarantee that he wont still rip you off. esp if he is in another country and how much are you willing to spend in legal fees to chase him and get situation resolved.

when i was starting out with kindle i had a similar problem. i was advised to publish a text version of my story to kindle. with the few pics i had gathered so far.
using same title i would use on my completed book.

get it submitted, approved and published on kindle. dont worry if you never sell a copy. and dont promote it at all. the point is to have it up there before anybody else does.

from that time, i have used this tactic for all my books. fiction, nonfiction, childrens. everything. i publish it on kindle *before* giving it to proofers, editers, designers.

when i get completed book back, i update old kindle book with new version. sometimes i unpublish old book and put up new book and then do the promotions.

Thanks but can this make you look bad as an author? I'm new to kindle. But does kindle have something like YouTube where you get the most traffic within 24 hours after publishing? I just don't want a bad first impression from buyers by listing an unfinished book. Does this work for you and is there any harm done? But still this guy is drawing the pics...he has 75% of the book since its pic heavy. You can figure out the story based on the pics.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180624].message }}

Tom Gates 11 years ago

Originally Posted by coreytucker

Thanks but can this make you look bad as an author? I'm new to kindle.

you can use a pen name to publish it.
when the book is completed the way you want, republish with the name you want to use.

But does kindle have something like YouTube where you get the most traffic within 24 hours after publishing?

yes that is why i often unpublish old book when i have the completed one back. i can pull the old one and republish new one. with the name i actually want to publish it under.

I just don't want a bad first impression from buyers by listing an unfinished book.

re-read my previous post
you are not publishing the first book to *sell.* you are publishing so that somebody else cant publish same thing. and if they do, you can contact amazon and say look i posted original and my graphic designer ripped me off, please take his down. or whatever. provide the contract etc.

Does this work for you and is there any harm done?

i have done it dozens of times. if you use a pen name for first book, it doesnt matter if you get bad reviews either or anything else.

But still this guy is drawing the pics...he has 75% of the book since its pic heavy. You can figure out the story based on the pics.

maybe i'm not explaining this strategy very well. you are going to write the entire story out. without any pics. unless you have a few to use. and publish the story as detailed as possible.

another thing you could do is. only give the designer half the story to do pics for.
then take those pics and use them to publish your first book.

hey if you dont want to publish it, just upload to kindle as a *draft*.
the point is to have something up there that amazon can see and verify that it is *your* work. and that you posted it up first.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180634].message }}

WillR

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Gates

i was advised to publish a text version of my story to kindle. with the few pics i had gathered so far.
using same title i would use on my completed book.

This is kind of like the old fashioned way of protecting something. What people used to do was send themselves a letter with the copyrighted content inside it. That way the letter was sealed and post marked with the date. If anyone tried to copy their work at a later stage they could prove they were the first person to have that work. That was the theory anyway.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

.

âž¨ Here's How to Make Your First $177 Online
This Week Using the Piggyback Method...

.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180639].message }}

Tom Gates

11 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

This is kind of like the old fashioned way of protecting something. What people used to do was send themselves a letter with the copyrighted content inside it. That way the letter was sealed and post marked with the date. If anyone tried to copy their work at a later stage they could prove they were the first person to have that work. That was the theory anyway.

yes exactly. old method modified for new technology.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180646].message }}

ravenx 11 years ago

poor man's copyright...put your stories in an envelope and mail that stuff to yourself

consider doing that in addition to written agreements. if at all possible, make sure you meet in person / ask for references. if he doesn't provide any, then you know he isn't a serious person you want to deal with.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180649].message }}

TinkBD

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Gates

when i was starting out with kindle i had a similar problem. i was advised to publish a text version of my story to kindle. with the few pics i had gathered so far.
using same title i would use on my completed book.

get it submitted, approved and published on kindle. dont worry if you never sell a copy. and dont promote it at all. the point is to have it up there before anybody else does.

One disadvantage of this strategy is that you'll lose the 30 day New Product window by wasting it on a non-existent product...

Just something to weigh and consider...

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180930].message }}

Tom Gates

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TinkBD

One disadvantage of this strategy is that you'll lose the 30 day New Product window by wasting it on a non-existent product...

Just something to weigh and consider...

thanks tink. i addressed this in followup posts

when your book is ready, you can remove the first book from kindle completely and publish the new version.

i also offered the option to upload first book to kindle as draft only. then when book is ready, submit again. this time for publishing not for draft. the draft can remain there if you feel better about it. for 90 days or whatever. if you use this method, name your draft slightly different.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8181775].message }}

TinkBD

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Gates

thanks tink. i addressed this in followup posts

when your book is ready, you can remove the first book from kindle completely and publish the new version.

i also offered the option to upload first book to kindle as draft only. then when book is ready, submit again. this time for publishing not for draft. the draft can remain there if you feel better about it. for 90 days or whatever. if you use this method, name your draft slightly different.

Thanks for the clarification, Tom ;-)

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8182179].message }}

coreytucker

11 years ago

Tom will publishing a draft on amazon be just as effective like you said?

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180652].message }}

Tom Gates

11 years ago

Originally Posted by coreytucker

Tom will publishing a draft on amazon be just as effective like you said?

honestly i dont know 100%. i *think* it will be because it is uploaded to amazons server. and they can see the content and date uploaded if they need to.
you can contact amazon and ask if you would feel better about it.

i have always published it live under pen name. i feel much safe with that strategy.

Originally Posted by coreytucker

Maybe I could write the draft on amazon with some sketched pics and full story. Print that off and mail it to myself too? Also I'm getting him off an out source work type site. I could print off our conversations and mail them to me too right?

sure why not. protect yourself in every way you can

also you will have the signed contract to present to amazon too. along with your draft or published first version of book.

its a shame outsourcing has come down to this. cant trust people these days with your work. so better to be proactive.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180660].message }}

coreytucker

11 years ago

Maybe I could write the draft on amazon with some sketched pics and full story. Print that off and mail it to myself too? Also I'm getting him off an out source work type site. I could print off our conversations and mail them to me too right?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180655].message }}

coreytucker

11 years ago

Thanks tom. Is a digital contract good enough? So you have never had anyone try to steal your idea?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180677].message }}

Tom Gates

11 years ago

yeah that is the good news lol knock on wood!
but i still use this strat because i hear outsourcing horror stories a lot.

digital should be fine. unless the system you use can be easily manipulated.

i get actual signature copies too. preferbaly mailed. but fax can work.
none of that means much. that is why i use the strategy i shared here as my primary proof of ownership.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180686].message }}

DubDubDubDot

11 years ago

A business forum and people are talking about sending a letter to yourself and other nonsense. This thread is a disgrace.

Here:

U.S. Copyright Office - Registering a Work (FAQ)

$35 and you're on rock solid legal ground.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180689].message }}

cashcow

11 years ago

Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot

A business forum and people are talking about sending a letter to yourself and other nonsense. This thread is a disgrace.

Here:

U.S. Copyright Office - Registering a Work (FAQ)

$35 and you're on rock solid legal ground.

Yes, and having this will also give you solid proof that you can send to Amazon and allows you to sue.

3. Copyright Myths | Plagiarism Today

Also mailing yourself a copy does not provide you any protection.

[ 3 ] Thanks

Signature

Gone Fishing

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8182214].message }}

coreytucker

11 years ago

From what I understand copyright doesn't protect you really with something creative. They change a few details and its their own "work."

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180719].message }}

Benny L 11 years ago

I created book on the subject of motorcycling. I used forum members to contribute cool pictures for the book. Since it was more of a vanity project, and I wasn't really too concerned about getting rich off of it, here's what I did.

I gave everyone on the forum who contributed a Private Message. In it, I included a one paragraph release. Basically, they give me the rights to use their photograph in the book and any marketing materials for it including subsequent editions; they retain the rights to use their photographs as they see fit.
I told them to fill in their name, include their screen name, and provide me an address where I can send their copy of the book to. I then stored all that information in a file on my gmail account and printed it out for backup. Not only did I get ~50 positive reviews from that, but I also built some recognition and goodwill within the community.

I know that wouldn't work in your case, but I figured I'd throw it out there as an example of how one can go about securing rights.

In your case, I'd probably keep a file with my emails to the artist, and request that he send me something back acknowledging his agreement to the terms. The bottom line though is that if he wants to rip you off, he'll probably succeed. That's why reputation, solid relationships, and good references are very important.

But with all that said, forget the artist for a moment. There's no reason why someone who can create his own artwork is going to steal your artwork. That would be incredibly dumb. Instead, he'd just create his own. And stealing your own words? For a children's book? Please... I bet he assumes he can make his own anyway. So why steal? And on top of that, what's to stop me from buying your book, scanning the pictures into my computer, and recreating your book without your consent? It will only cost me like $8 or $10 (or whatever you charge for it) more than it would cost the artist. If I really wanted to swindle you for a buck, buying your book first wouldn't be a huge obstacle now, would it.

It seems to me that the artist isn't as big of a problem as you might think. Stop focusing on the artist for a moment because the truth is, the theft could come from ANYWHERE. You've just got to throw caution to the wind. Because either you will remain somewhat small time and have small time problems, or else you will become big time and then your problems will become big time. Just accept the fact that there's risk everywhere. Be diligent in accordance with the value you are receiving from your endeavors, but understand that worrying beyond that will only limit your ability to succeed.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180737].message }}

coreytucker

11 years ago

Thanks guys. But if he can rip me off then is copyrighting the only way to protect myself or will that even work?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180742].message }}

coreytucker

11 years ago

Guys I found this on the amazon forum:

This is from the Amazon KDP (Kindle Direct Publishing) page. Note the email address at the bottom:

If you believe that your work has been used in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide Amazon.com's copyright agent the written information specified below. Please note that this procedure is exclusively for notifying Amazon that your copyrighted material has been infringed.

* An electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest;
* A description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed upon;
* A description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the site, including the auction ID number, if applicable;
* Your address, telephone number, and e-mail address;
* A statement by you that you have a good-faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law
* A statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf.

Amazon.com's Copyright Agent for notice of claims of copyright infringement on its site can be reached as follows:

Copyright Agent
Amazon.com Legal Department
P.O. Box 81226
Seattle, WA 98108
phone: (206) 266-4064
fax: (206) 266-7010
e-mail: copyright@amazon.com

So if I follwow these steps that would work? I mean I doubt this guy would publish a physical version.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180751].message }}

jacktackett

11 years ago

The instant the illustrator creates an image he or she is the copyright holder, so you need an agreement to become the legal copyright holder.

In the future the first contract you have to do the work should be a work for hire contact that specifies the copyright goes to you. If the original work contract doesn't then you need the assighnment of copyright document. There are several places on the net dealing with writers that have examples - take a look at:

Sample Publishing Contract

Amazon.com: Business and Legal Forms for Authors...

plus Warriors Kindsvator and BillSiler (forgive any mispellings) have had some WSOs and War Room entries on various contracts for publishing.

You may want to check out legal zoom as well, but I have no experience with them. The physical book from Amazon above I've used since the mid 90's for my publishing endeavors.

Also as Dub pointed out, spending the $35 to register your copyright is a smart investment.

best wishes,
--Jack

Thanks

Signature

Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim

Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8180965].message }}

coreytucker

11 years ago

Thanks a ton guys. Basically this is as new business model for me and action is key. I don't have 30 days to wait to copyright. If I make out a work to hire forum will that be enough?

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8182760].message }}

LilBlackDress 11 years ago

I think the best bet would be to find an illustrator with excellent references and get an NDA signed. Naturally you can still get ripped off but with due diligence you lessen those odds greatly. Also take a few of the illustrations you get and run them thru Google images to check for originality.

Publishing skeleton books under pen names and then unpublishing will leave those books on your bookshelf. Just seems super messy to me.
- Thanks
Signature

Pen Name + 8 eBooks + social media sites 4 SALE - PM me (evergreen beauty niche)
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8183150].message }}

How to protect kindle book ideas from illustrator?

Trending Topics

How did you turn it all around?

Any thoughts on golf's latest phenom...Scottie Scheffler??

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?

Some interesting stats about brand comms

best high quality crypto traffic.