HostGator hosting slow; suggestion?

11 years ago

Here's another possibility.

If you are on hostgator's shared plan, what is the likelihood that someone else on the same server as you is hogging resources?

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thisisjack

11 years ago

I would advise contacting them and requesting to move to a new server, or ask what the server load is for the server your shared hosting is on. Like RonnyRaygun said, there is a possibility someone else is hogging resources and causing disruptions.

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xaron

11 years ago

They weren't very helpful last time I spoke to them. The first guy said he could clearly see the problem and informed their "server monitoring team". When I contacted them again they said they couldn't see any problem. I'll see what they say about the server move. If I were to upgrade would they just keep me on the same server or put me on a different one?

Thanks
1 reply

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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by xaron

They weren't very helpful last time I spoke to them. The first guy said he could clearly see the problem and informed their "server monitoring team". When I contacted them again they said they couldn't see any problem. I'll see what they say about the server move. If I were to upgrade would they just keep me on the same server or put me on a different one?

Your server "upgrade" is most likely a downgrade since the EIG takeover. If you were to upgrade your plan, you'd most likely be on the same physical server as well.

Since you mentioned a forum, I'd also be willing to bet that your issues are MySQL related as well.

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jbelt999

11 years ago

I am on Hostgator as well...and having similar issues. Does anyone know how "involved moving to a new host is? Do I need to start everything over again or is there a way to migrate everything?

Thanks,
John

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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by jbelt999

I am on Hostgator as well...and having similar issues. Does anyone know how "involved moving to a new host is? Do I need to start everything over again or is there a way to migrate everything?

Thanks,
John

Your new web host should be able to migrate everything for you. It's a fairly simple and seamless process, especially when going from cPanel to cPanel.

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cooler1

11 years ago

Originally Posted by jbelt999

I am on Hostgator as well...and having similar issues. Does anyone know how "involved moving to a new host is? Do I need to start everything over again or is there a way to migrate everything?

Thanks,
John

If you join Stablehost, they migrate your websites over for free if it's a cPanel host, but certain hosts such as Bluehost charge a migration fee such as $99.99

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Chris Pappin 11 years ago

I canceled my hostgator account account and went with gvo they are much better in my opinion
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centstodollar 11 years ago

Definitely need to contact HG to let them know what is wrong.They are usually really good and quick with replies, and online chatting.
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webworksbd

11 years ago

HG customer care is very active. You should inform them about this matter and I believe that they will take action for this purpose.

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Alex Mensah 11 years ago

Originally Posted by webworksbd

HG customer care is very active. You should inform them about this matter and I believe that they will take action for this purpose.

Yes, I have hosted with other hosting companies and in terms of customer care the best I have come across is host gator they are really responsive.
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curationsoft

11 years ago

Submit support ticket to hostgator, they will surely attend to your problem. I never had problem with their customer support ever since.

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David Maschke

11 years ago

I agree with ronny, if you are on a shared server, and a lot of people are using wordpress, it will be you that pays the price, at least that's what I was told by one of their techs.

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unclejoe

11 years ago

Hostgator is notorious for over selling on its servers every server has a certain amount of bandwidth and space. I have a vps with jaguar pc and I am very happy with them. Since you said the site was a forum... I would check into caching system for your site. also clear your error logs that usually gets full quickly.

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kpmedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by unclejoe

Hostgator is notorious for over selling on its servers every server has a certain amount of bandwidth and space. I have a vps with jaguar pc and I am very happy with them. Since you said the site was a forum... I would check into caching system for your site. also clear your error logs that usually gets full quickly.

Not overselling ---- overloading.

"Overselling" is nothing more than resources management. All hosts "oversell".
Overloading is where they cram a box full, and performance be damned. That's horrible!

Originally Posted by Kingfish85

In response to your edit, they are 2 different companies, not related at all to my knowledge.

Three separate (and excellent) hosts.

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firentire

11 years ago

As far as i know Hostgator does not allow overselling. Here is an explanation ... https://support.hostgator.com/articl...ow-overselling

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Kingfish85 11 years ago

Originally Posted by firentire

As far as i know Hostgator does not allow overselling. Here is an explanation ... https://support.hostgator.com/articl...ow-overselling

That's not what is being referred to here. A more accurate term would be overloaded. Overselling for reseller hosting is nothing more than calculating by resources "used" vs "allocated". Without allowing the overselling feature, you'll most likely never be able to fully use what you're paying for.
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CyberAlien 11 years ago

Originally Posted by firentire

As far as i know Hostgator does not allow overselling. Here is an explanation ... https://support.hostgator.com/articl...ow-overselling

HostGator doesn't allow resellers to oversell the space and bandwidth their allotted. HostGator does oversell on their shared servers though.
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firentire

11 years ago

About the allocated resources, you are definitely right, but still overselling is not the same with overloaded. Thanks for making the point, anyway.

Thanks
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Kingfish85 11 years ago

Originally Posted by firentire

About the allocated resources, you are definitely right, but still overselling is not the same with overloaded. Thanks for making the point, anyway.

No worries. Your post was absolutely correct as far as HostGator not allowing the overselling feature to be enabled. The comments above were more so towards "HostGator" overselling/oversubscribing/overloading their servers. Typically, the majority of websites using MySQL and especially Wordpress are finding this out when their dashboards just load and load and load.

Enabling overselling for resellers isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as you have the resources available. Most are selling 500GB plans for 10 bucks...that's not going to work. With the overselling feature enabled, even with plans like ours with 20GB, that reseller cannot exceed their plan limits anyway.

So let's say you have a HostGator Aluminum reseller package which claims 50GB. If you create 10 accounts, with a package that has a limit for 5GB, your reseller plan will be at its cap...no matter if you're using all 5GB on each account or 1MB on each account.

Now, what this does is allow the host to continue to pour tons of accounts on that server because you're never going to use the resources you're paying for without being forced to upgrade.

It seems a bit unethical to me, kind of like selling "unlimited" resources. Allowing overselling for resellers doesn't really cause any problems when you monitor & manage your resources accordingly however.
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kinyash

11 years ago

I use fatcow.com They have got great deals and i havent got any issue interms of service so far. They also will help you with migration.

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thedark

11 years ago

Every web hosting is becoming greedy when they start to get popular. When they start-up, they are offering good prices even their servers are almost empty, then, they only get new signups but they stick with the same hardware so they can make a profit and get all the money money they invested back. There are a lot of costs involved in maintaining those hardware, the energy consumption, their short lifetime due to to high usage. I don't want to find an excuse for what their are doing, they should give you what they advertise.

However, if you really care about your business, the hosting is very important. Why to stick with a 10$ slow hosting, when you can get a nice VPS with 50$ that will assure you high loading speed, good performance, full control, etc. If you cannot make at least few hundred of dollars from your 5000UV forum, so you can easily pay $50 for a VPS hosting, then you should not care so much about the loading speed as you are not making good money from it. But, if you really want your forum to grow speed is important and you should go ahead and upgrade ( probably at another hosting company ).

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socialsignals

11 years ago

check your own usage in the running processes. I had this problem too. Turns out i had resource-hogging php scripts. they cap your running processes to 25 which is more than enough for most people.

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celente

11 years ago

Originally Posted by socialsignals

check your own usage in the running processes. I had this problem too. Turns out i had resource-hogging php scripts. they cap your running processes to 25 which is more than enough for most people.

PHP scripts are the worst for this, especailly when we are testing sales pages that are PHP driven.

I stay away from hostgator these days. I think its better having a local host, and also a very friendly communication between them.

I can pick up the phone at 2am in the morning and my host know me almost on first name basis. They charge more, but are very reliable if I have problems.

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Lightlysalted

11 years ago

Bandwidth is always a problem. Most hosting sites limit the bandwidth to sites that are too greedy, unless you pay an extra fee. Worth checking out with HG directly.

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Gary Ning Lo

11 years ago

Why not go dedicated? If this slowness issue is important to you.. then you should be willing to invest to resolve it..

Cheers,

Gary

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firentire

11 years ago

Well, if the forum have low traffic, there's no need to upgrade to a dedicated when a reseller account or a vps could be better choices and less expensive.

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JRP

11 years ago

I've used just about every major hosting provider, now I only use godaddy. For about $14, sometimes as low as $8 you can get an unlimited hosting plan...but it's worth more than that because of the world class support you get along with it. If you can get past the constant selling on their part you will be very happy with the product.

Thanks
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unclejoe

11 years ago

I love how hosting companies advertise shared hosting at like $7 dollars a month and they say it comes with unlimited bandwidth and unlimited storage. What a bunch of bull and an outright lie. Even a dedicated server at 10 terabits of bandwidth can get overloaded.

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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by unclejoe

I love how hosting companies advertise shared hosting at like $7 dollars a month and they say it comes with unlimited bandwidth and unlimited storage. What a bunch of bull and an outright lie. Even a dedicated server at 10 terabits of bandwidth can get overloaded.

Come on unclejoe, that's thinking with logic now!

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cooler1

11 years ago

Originally Posted by unclejoe

I love how hosting companies advertise shared hosting at like $7 dollars a month and they say it comes with unlimited bandwidth and unlimited storage. What a bunch of bull and an outright lie. Even a dedicated server at 10 terabits of bandwidth can get overloaded.

They say by unlimited they mean they do not limit or meter you on that item.

http://support.hostgator.com/articles/pre-sales-policies/how-much-traffic-can-i-have

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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by cooler1

They say by unlimited they mean they do not limit or meter you on that item.

http://support.hostgator.com/articles/pre-sales-policies/how-much-traffic-can-i-have

Then they should clearly label that on the page with all the other details and not buried in their terms of service that 99% of people don't ready anyhow.

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Manoj Kumar

11 years ago

i too facing the same problem recent day's. Planning to switch another hosting company. Probably i will end up in Bluehost.

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cooler1 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Manoj Kumar

i too facing the same problem recent day's. Planning to switch another hosting company. Probably i will end up in Bluehost.

Bluehost is also owned by EIG.
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MonitorScout

11 years ago

There are many ways which you can use to speed up your website and for that it is essential to know what CMS you are using.

Let me give you an example : if you are using WordPress then you can simply install wp cache plugin, this plugin will speed up your webpages by caching them.

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vishwa

11 years ago

Hostgator services are reportedly slow down After acquiring by EIG Group Who are always famous for their Bad support and Services. Better you move your hosting to another.

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aizaku

11 years ago

are you sure it is your server and not your site?

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dean1986

11 years ago

im expeeriencing the same problem, hostgator moved my website and now its so slow it hardly functions, really annoying. I know for a fact it is no the website, it's the new server, i have contacted them numerous times and they keep blaming the website, i tested the website on another host and it works fine, we just have to move it

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zeroaffiliate

11 years ago

Had the problem before. Although hostgator is a great affordable service, there are times when i feel the speed is being affected by the sheer volume of traffic it has to handle. I have since shifted to beyond hosting which works better and faster for my business.

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hometutor 11 years ago

For website Hosting I have about 20 websites with these guys

Website Hosting I Recommend

They have great customer service

Call though don't use the message service. You get much more personal results

Rick
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thedanbrown

11 years ago

I've never noticed any problems with my HG account but I also use Bluehost which is pretty reliable and used by many customers

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xaron

11 years ago

HG seem to be passing the buck. They say it's nothing to do with the server, but it's been fine up until the upgrade. So, what are my options? If upgrading the shared plan won't work, what about a reseller, vps, or another host? The only big ones I know of are HG, Blue Host and Go Daddy.

Thanks
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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by xaron

HG seem to be passing the buck. They say it's nothing to do with the server, but it's been fine up until the upgrade. So, what are my options? If upgrading the shared plan won't work, what about a reseller, vps, or another host? The only big ones I know of are HG, Blue Host and Go Daddy.

That's the problem, "the big ones". The problem will never be on their side and even if it is your chances of them admitting it are slim to none.

I'd recommend heading over to Web Hosting Talk - The largest, most influential web hosting community on the Internet and asking around, looking through the smaller companies etc. Find yourself a company that treats you as a valued customer and not just another account.

Upgrading the shared plan will most likely keep you on the same server.

Shared & reseller plans are typically hosted on the same servers since they're pretty much the same thing. Reseller just allows access to a stripped down WHM version.

VPS - most likely not needed.

Some say they don't overload, some say they do. When you start to run into loading problems with small sites, especially those using MySQL, typically loading problems/slowness is due to one thing - tons of accounts packed onto a server. Remember, 99% of all the "big ones" (unlimited everything under the sun) are owned by the same parent company with the business plan of "cut costs & maximize profits) which ultimately leaves you the take the hit on performance.

When you get pissed with HostGator and jump ship over to BlueHost, or Fat Cow, or HostMonster, or any of the other 50+ brands they own.....you technically never left so it's still a win-win for them.

As I mentioned, I'd start looking at smaller companies that aren't structured around a corporate greed model.

EDIT: 99.9% of the problems that stem with this large main stream unlimited this & that hosts is a direct result of the environments being run at pretty much 95% capacity. For example:

You hear about performance issues with: HostGator, GoDaddy, BlueHost, HostMonster, DreamHost, Fat Cow, Ipower, IPage, NetFirms, Intuit, A Small Orange etc etc.

The places you don't hear about these problems are: MDD Hosting, HawkHost, StableHost, Big Scoots, Croc Web, Our Company (5+ WSO's w/ no negative reviews) , VidaHost, SimplexWebs, WiredTree, KnownHost etc.

When you move out of the bargain basement, budget - pennies on the dollar services, there's a whole other world of higher class service available.

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xaron

11 years ago

I always went with the big ones because I couldn't tell who was a reseller. I've had some bad experiences with smaller hosts before. I honestly didn't expect such a dismissive "take it or leave it" response from HG though, so I'll have to do something.

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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by xaron

I always went with the big ones because I couldn't tell who was a reseller. I've had some bad experiences with smaller hosts before. I honestly didn't expect such a dismissive "take it or leave it" response from HG though, so I'll have to do something.

Yea, I know what you mean. There's a difference though in a provider that's reselling hosting using a reseller plan and one leasing/colocating hardware. We lease all servers directly from datacenters which keeps hardware refreshes on them so we can focus on our core services.

Most people don't know, HostGator "was" one of the largest resellers of The Planet & SoftLayer. It makes a lot of sense to not own all of the hardware in a lot of cases as well.

Sorry to hear about the type of response you've received. That's not a good way to do business and surely not a way to treat a customer. This is however, the typical scenario of EIG, which is now the parent company. I hate to say it, but this is the direction every other web host has went that they've purchased over the years.

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GlenH 11 years ago

I've had a dedicated server with HG for 4 years, and have never had a problem with speed or support. They have been fantastic.

Honestly, you're asking for all sorts of problems when you 'share' server space with who know who.
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- xaron 11 years ago
  
  That's not a very constructive response. I offer a free service and don't have the funds to pay out $$$ each month for a dedicated server. Nor should I need to.
  
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  Kingfish85 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by xaron
  
  That's not a very constructive response. I offer a free service and don't have the funds to pay out $$$ each month for a dedicated server. Nor should I need to.
  
  Highly doubt you need a dedicated server. Way too many people are forced/pressured into upgrading to something they really don't need. In a lot of cases, a somewhat affordable vps is going to have more power than a dedicated server for the same price range.
  
  Most of the time, a dedicated server under say $120/mo is going to have an "i" series processor, which is a "desktop" grade processor, not a server grade. Then, you factor in storage redundancy. 1 HDD is what most come standard with, and is a single point of failure. Even RAID 1 which is 2 drives being mirrored has performance issues & still downtime should 1 drive fail.
  
  A better host that uses at least RAID 10 in a shared/reseller environment and one that doesn't overload their servers/jam pack them with sometimes 10K websites would be the way to go.
  
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jwsc101

11 years ago

It's probably worth looking for a reliable smaller hosting company who can provide better customer care.

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aritrim

11 years ago

Since I often recommend hosting to my customers and that too for self hosted videos, I would like to tell you, if you are on a shared hosting plan on HG, you should immediately think of an alternative.

Someone here, recommended Stablehost. They are fantastic.

I would also like to inform you that the plan does not matter - shared, reseller, vps or dedicated. What matters is the quality of the hosting and that a quality host does not offer unlimted space or bandwidth. There is no unlimted hard drive available yet.

Just my 2 cents.

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xaron

11 years ago

Is there a migration fee for Veerotech, MDD Hosting or Stablehost? I couldn't help but notice a similar layout of the last two. The "countdown" clocks are annoying. Are they owned by the same company?

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Kingfish85 11 years ago

Originally Posted by xaron

Is there a migration fee for Veerotech, MDD Hosting or Stablehost?

None for us unless its over 25 accounts. Then we can work out bulk transfer rates, which are negotiable as well.

-Brent
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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by xaron

Is there a migration fee for Veerotech, MDD Hosting or Stablehost? I couldn't help but notice a similar layout of the last two. The "countdown" clocks are annoying. Are they owned by the same company?

In response to your edit, they are 2 different companies, not related at all to my knowledge.

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cooler1

11 years ago

Originally Posted by xaron

Is there a migration fee for Veerotech, MDD Hosting or Stablehost? I couldn't help but notice a similar layout of the last two. The "countdown" clocks are annoying. Are they owned by the same company?

There is no migration fee for Stablehost if your host uses cPanel.

btw, there is a 50% off lifetime coupon for Stablehost, better than the 30% off one shown on their website.

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gator1985

11 years ago

I would contact there support my servers seem too be fine, but otherwise I would go on live chat too tech support.

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luisgab1

11 years ago

Me too! Been having some couple of issues with them lately... although they are still a great company, great customer service! I don't recommend changing, just address the problem with them.

- Luis Gabriel

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xaron

11 years ago

The problem has been addressed, both online and over phone, with blatant ignorance. Apparently, it's nothing to do with them and my it's fault.

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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by xaron

The problem has been addressed, both online and over phone, with blatant ignorance. Apparently, it's nothing to do with them and my fault.

What was the problem & the resolution?

Thanks
1 reply

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xaron

11 years ago

I'm moving to a new host. No resolution on their end.

Thanks
1 reply

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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by xaron

I'm moving to a new host. No resolution on their end.

Well, its unfortunate that it couldn't be resolved and hopefully you'll be in better hands now.

Thanks
1 reply

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xaron

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kingfish85

Well, its unfortunate that it couldn't be resolved and hopefully you'll be in better hands now.

It wasn't for want of trying on my part.

I had a look at your site and was curious about a couple of things. Do you offer phone support (24/7)?

Also, I noticed you're promoting the v200 shared option. Considering I'd seemingly get more "enterprise" class storage and bandwidth for the same price on other sites, what makes it worth the money?

Thanks
2 replies

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heavysm 11 years ago

I recommend Mdd, stable and hawkhost in that order.

Once you get higher traffic flow and need more resources I then recommend moving to mediatemple.

I did the same search you have been doing when I wanted to move away from HG. All of these options are budget oriented with really good performance.
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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by xaron

It wasn't for want of trying on my part.

I had a look at your site and was curious about a couple of things. Do you offer phone support (24/7)?

Also, I noticed you're promoting the v200 shared option. Considering I'd seemingly get more "enterprise" class storage and bandwidth for the same price on other sites, what makes it worth the money?

Currently at this time we do not offer phone support. Using our support desk is easiest for myself & my techs and it also creates a history.

I'll give you a list of features:

Email delivery - SpamExperts/SendGrid external email delivery service. We have a 100% to the inbox delivery

Online Form Builder - We own a JotForm installation that runs on our servers. Included with every hosting account.

LiteSpeed - All shared/reseller hosting uses LiteSpeed, which many other hosts do as well, nothing super special here.

CloudLinux - Same as above, many use it as we do as well.

RAID 10 - On all shared/reseller servers. Increased redundancy for hdd failures. Hardware RAID, not software RAID.

Multiple Backups - We use StoreGrid for our daily backups, which all shared/reseller customers have access to restore files/databases from cPanel. We also retain onsite & offsite weekly/monthly server & account backups for disaster recovery. Should our Dallas TX location suffer a natural disaster - building destroyed, power grid goes out etc etc, we can be up & running in another location. I'd also like to note that we use LimeStone Networks as our main datacenter, which relies on the same power grid as the Dallas 911 dispatch center.

Clustered DNS - This might not be as critical to many however, we use a clustered DNS system that is replicated using multiple DNS servers (ours, not a 3rd party DNS company) through multiple, different geographical locations.

Support/Experience - myself & my 2 techs have been in the IT & web hosting industry for a combined overall 20+ years of experience. We have experience in many technologies such as Linux, Windows, Disaster Recovery, systems maintenance, networking, web development etc. In short, we do what needs to be done to ensure our customer sites are working properly without issue & within reason.

Customer Service - I feel as though we're pretty down to earth and do not have a "corporate" structure.

I don't want to go into a "pick me! pick me!" type discussion as there are a couple other great providers listed in this thread but hopefully that gives you some reassurance on my company as well. Another perk is that I'm a very active member here on this forum as well as some others.

Thanks

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veekay31

11 years ago

Is Hostgator VPS good? Is the move from shared to VPS on hostgator easy or does it involve manual backup and restore.

Thanks
1 reply

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kpmedia 11 years ago

Originally Posted by veekay31

Is Hostgator VPS good? Is the move from shared to VPS on hostgator easy or does it involve manual backup and restore.

No. That's a "me too" offering, and they have little VPS skills.
Try somebody like Knownhost, Futurehosting, or EuroVPS instead. MUCH better hosts!

Manual backup/restore may not be needed if you get a cPanel VPS, and have a cPanel shared host now.

Judging by the questions, you also need a managed VPS, not unmanaged.
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igg

11 years ago

alot of these complaints have been reported ever since hostgator sold to a new company.

Thanks

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Ntech25

11 years ago

I was the number one fan of hostgator and their services. When I first purchased hosting I went with them and they have been great until recently. I think I read they got purchased but not 100% sure but since then my websites speeds have really went down.

I also have a lot of wallpaper websites and arcade website, all the sudden I started getting emails from hostgator shutting down my sites because of high resource usages (used them for years and first time I got these warnings). They used to be great but seems like maybe getting to big for their shoes and not caring about customers anymore (just like CrapDaddy).

Recently I been using bluehost, hostnine and been testing fresh website hosting. I have to say so far hostnine and fresh website hosting give me the best speeds and support when needed. Bluehost is good but seems their cpanel gets more restricted everyday and they want extra money for features that should be free in cpanel.

I would highly recommend Fresh Website Hosting (link is in my signature). They are the same owners of FreshStoreBuilder and I been using their script since it was in beta testing and have no complaints.

Thanks

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kpmedia

11 years ago

Bluehost, Hostnine, and Hostgator are all the same company -- EIG.
They own about 50 companies, and they all suck.
They're all run by the same 2-3 sub-companies, and are just "brands" to fool you.

If you want a good host, get away from EIG and fake "top 10" affiliate lists that list EIG.

Thanks

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TonyG5003

11 years ago

I have three sites hosted with Hostgator - two of which were migrated last week. Both of those sites are now painfully slow at times. Have reported it to HG, but they don't seem very responsive to the issue - but they did confirm that others are experiencing the issue as well. Perhaps we're to assume this is the "new" shared hosting speed?

Thanks

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eClicker

11 years ago

I have heard of people requesting to change servers. Though i have never requested this I think it's worth a try. You may have to prove your case.

Thanks
1 reply

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Linerider

11 years ago

I have had exactly the same problem as the OP. I have two websites on two different servers at the Ace Data Center and sometimes I can't even logon to cPanel because it times out. I spoke with HostGator tech support and they said there was nothing they could do because the problem lies with the 3rd party data center.
Doesn't leave me with much choice but to move hosts, which is a shame because I have been with HostGator for years and used to think they were great.

I'm leaning towards MDDHosting at the moment but need to do more research. Would be grateful to hear from anyone who uses shared hosting on MDD at the moment.

Thanks
1 reply

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Kingfish85

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Linerider

I have had exactly the same problem as the OP. I have two websites on two different servers at the Ace Data Center and sometimes I can't even logon to cPanel because it times out. I spoke with HostGator tech support and they said there was nothing they could do because the problem lies with the 3rd party data center.
Doesn't leave me with much choice but to move hosts, which is a shame because I have been with HostGator for years and used to think they were great.

I'm leaning towards MDDHosting at the moment but need to do more research. Would be grateful to hear from anyone who uses shared hosting on MDD at the moment.

I don't use them since I own my own company but MDD Hosting is a reputable, great quality web host. Certainly one, as a direct competitor that I would recommend.

Thanks

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HostGator hosting slow; suggestion?

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