JVZoo, W+ - Are there any implications with accepting these affiliates who I don't know?

28 replies
So i'm releasing my first MMO product soon and have done all the pre-launch stuff and had quite a few affiliate requests...

Now, around 75% of the requests have certain similarities -

Country: Vietnam
Sales: 0
Message: I have a list of xxxx people or buyers list of xxxx people

Now there are a few red flags with these requests in my mind. Firstly it seems weird that 75% of affiliates are from Vietnam. Secondly, if they have buyers lists in the thousands, why are the sales 0?

I've accepted these guys as 'delayed' as JVZoo suggests. But I'm wondering if there are any further implications of accepting them?

I guess my main question is, is this normal?

Any help very appreciated! I want to make sure everything is right before launch.

Cheers,
#accepting #affiliates #implications #jvzoo
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    If it were me - I'd be denying 75% of those applications, not just delaying them.
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  • Profile picture of the author PROmotions LLC
    Sounds sketchy, I myself don't use W+ or JVZoo, but I have read up on it and can say that lots of people recommend only bringing on experienced affiliates with sales history. Using terrible affiliates might get you some crazy unethical spammy promos to your Ad that could look un professional to the leads leading to a possible bad reputation among some people.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Mensah
      Originally Posted by PROmotions LLC View Post

      Sounds sketchy, I myself don't use W+ or JVZoo, but I have read up on it and can say that lots of people recommend only bringing on experienced affiliates with sales history. Using terrible affiliates might get you some crazy unethical spammy promos to your Ad that could look un professional to the leads leading to a possible bad reputation among some people.
      The real problem with accepting those people is that they could negatively impact your stats, that is, sending garbage traffic that does not convert that means that your EPC is negatively impacted because all this traffic is coming through but no one is buying because of the quality of the traffic. But nonetheless you can set them on delayed and monitor the traffic that they are sending through.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    Maybe they signed up to buy your product with their affiliate link. That way they will get it for cheap.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by 4DayWeekend View Post

    So i'm releasing my first MMO product soon and have done all the pre-launch stuff and had quite a few affiliate requests...

    Now, around 75% of the requests have certain similarities -

    Country: Vietnam
    Sales: 0
    Message: I have a list of xxxx people or buyers list of xxxx people

    Now there are a few red flags with these requests in my mind. Firstly it seems weird that 75% of affiliates are from Vietnam. Secondly, if they have buyers lists in the thousands, why are the sales 0?

    I've accepted these guys as 'delayed' as JVZoo suggests. But I'm wondering if there are any further implications of accepting them?

    I guess my main question is, is this normal?

    Any help very appreciated! I want to make sure everything is right before launch.

    Cheers,
    Yes, VERY normal no matter what platform you use (assuming they allow you to approve / disapprove affiliates).

    I only approve affiliates that I know or already have a proven track record. Approving annonymous affiliates is a recipe for disaster.

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author 4DayWeekend
      Thanks for your feedback guys.

      Any reason why I should disapprove them altogether? What damage can be done if they are 'delayed' as suggested by JVZoo?

      Cheers,
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      • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
        I just started using JVZoo and I've been getting quite a bit of applications. Thing is, on my application page, I say to leave your phone number because I'm not going to approve you unless I talk to you on the phone. I think maybe three people out of 15 followed the directions. So that's the end of the road for them. If they can't read it's over!

        But yes here's why you shouldn't. I was talking to someone who actually followed the directions, a 73 year old grandmother no less who is making more money than most people posting on this forum, and she told me about a friend of hers who just started approving anyone and everyone.

        It was great! His sales started shooting up! He was getting all of these customers for free! And make a little bit of money to boot!

        Then as it turns out, the refund requests started coming in left and right, and guess what? The affiliates he paid wouldn't refund the money because they'd cashed out their PayPal accounts and moved on to the next scam. All the sales they'd sent were with stolen credit cards.

        So not only did he lose the money and piss a lot of so called customers off, but he has to pay it all back, he's on the hook for the cash, and, jeopardizes both his own PayPal account and his affiliate vendor account for having so many complaints and illegal transactions.

        Those are good enough reasons for me!


        Marc

        Originally Posted by 4DayWeekend View Post

        Thanks for your feedback guys.

        Any reason why I should disapprove them altogether? What damage can be done if they are 'delayed' as suggested by JVZoo?

        Cheers,
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        • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
          Originally Posted by Marc Rodill View Post

          I just started using JVZoo and I've been getting quite a bit of applications. Thing is, on my application page, I say to leave your phone number because I'm not going to approve you unless I talk to you on the phone. I think maybe three people out of 15 followed the directions. So that's the end of the road for them. If they can't read it's over!

          But yes here's why you shouldn't. I was talking to someone who actually followed the directions, a 73 year old grandmother no less who is making more money than most people posting on this forum, and she told me about a friend of hers who just started approving anyone and everyone.

          It was great! His sales started shooting up! He was getting all of these customers for free! And make a little bit of money to boot!

          Then as it turns out, the refund requests started coming in left and right, and guess what? The affiliates he paid wouldn't refund the money because they'd cashed out their PayPal accounts and moved on to the next scam. All the sales they'd sent were with stolen credit cards.

          So not only did he lose the money and piss a lot of so called customers off, but he has to pay it all back, he's on the hook for the cash, and, jeopardizes both his own PayPal account and his affiliate vendor account for having so many complaints and illegal transactions.

          Those are good enough reasons for me!


          Marc
          Very Informing information, thanks for the share. So on the safe side I would delay ALL affiliates, that's just what I would do. This is your FOUNDATION and a way of financial freedom for you, you do not want to take any chances of having that jeopardized.
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          • Profile picture of the author knyght
            This thread is an example why "hanging out" on WF is so valuable. The wealth of information is incredible and practical.

            Thank you for all your invaluable insights. The information contained in the thread is "obvious" - only after reading them, and then the Duh moment
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      • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
        Originally Posted by 4DayWeekend View Post

        Any reason why I should disapprove them altogether?
        Most definitely! In addition to what Marc and Willie mentioned above, bad affiliates (or your competitors) can also tank your product's conversion rate by sending crappy traffic (safelists, bots, etc) to your offer. And the more your conversion rate drops, the less requests you'll get from *good* affiliates who want to promote your product (because the better affiliates will only be interested in products that have a good conversion rate).

        So don't even think about approving affiliates who you don't know/trust.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisDouthit
    I would recommend you do not approve a bunch of affiliates from counties that have many scammers. Vietnam and Philippians are probably the two largest countries for having scammers. As Marc says the stolen credit cards are how they get your money.

    I would only approve people for instant who you know or you have seen on forums and you can trust.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    I have, in the past approved many affiliates that I didn't know, putting
    them on delayed payments thinking that would prevent most problems.

    What happened in one case, that cause me now to reject most
    applicants that look even slightly out of the ordinary is that I got a
    LOT of chargebacks... with every single one of the chargebacks
    declaring that the Paypal transaction was "unauthorized."

    I guess the scammers could have been using stolen credit cards...
    it's just struck me as strange that they all used the same reason
    for doing chargebacks, which of course the credit card processors
    honored.

    Given that with most product launches, and most affiliates programs,
    a tiny percentage of affiliates are going to promote hard... and
    consistently, and make the majority of the sales, I think that you
    are better off rejecting potentially good affiliates than you are
    risking all of the headaches of bringing scammers into your fold.

    And yes... people in different cultures DO think differently, although
    you have honest people and dishonest people in all cultures. I do
    tend to be more critical/careful when approving affiliates from
    certain countries. I do check them out before approving them, and
    if I can't find any information on them, I automatically reject them.

    Willie
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    • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
      Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

      And yes... people in different cultures DO think differently, although
      you have honest people and dishonest people in all cultures. I do
      tend to be more critical/careful when approving affiliates from
      certain countries.

      Willie
      I agree with everything Willie just said.

      But will point out the big difference between our standard of living, and the standard of living in most 3rd world countries, makes it very appealing to them to get a couple bucks that you wouldn't bat an eyelash about.

      It doesn't make them bad people, necessarily, but still they're doing something illegal that can ruin your business in a hurry. So there's no use in approving them willy-nilly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    By the way, one way that I check people out is using a Gmail
    called Rapportive: Rapportive

    When you open an email from anyone within Gmail, and you
    have this app installed, it pulls data from their various online
    profiles (social media, etc.) and quickly provides you with a
    snapshop of who you are dealing with. If I don't get any
    information on them using Rapportive, I'm more likely to
    reject them.

    Incidentally, Rapportive is also great when you need to conduct
    a phone or Skype call with someone. Have them coordinate the
    call via email, then during the call, pull up that email within Gmail,
    and Rapportive tells you things like their urls, company name,
    niche, etc.... again data pulled from social media profiles, etc.

    This makes it very easy to build rapport with the person you
    are talking to, which I guess is where the name came from

    Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    Vietnam is on my personal blacklist. I received 12 fraudulent orders within 5 days for a total of $1200. Luckily I caught the scam quickly and refunded every one before they could charge back.
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    • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
      Originally Posted by Jesus Perez View Post

      Vietnam is on my personal blacklist. I received 12 fraudulent orders within 5 days for a total of $1200. Luckily I caught the scam quickly and refunded every one before they could charge back.
      Yup, I had this problem pretty recently too.

      I've been kinda lucky it hasn't happened very often, but I definitely learned from the first time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
        Originally Posted by rmolina88 View Post

        Yup, I had this problem pretty recently too.

        I've been kinda lucky it hasn't happened very often, but I definitely learned from the first time.
        Glad I'm not alone...but sad it happened to others.

        Mine was very elaborate. They signed up as an affiliate using a real person's name out of Florida with a FB social profile, address, phone and everything.

        I first discovered the scam by asking the affiliate to submit a W9 form for payout. They submitted the W9 with the FB person's profile, but the email reply I received was written in very, very broken english.

        I found it odd because her FB profile indicated she had a Bachelor's degree in business from a very well respected university. So when I went digging in Nanacast (my payment platform), I found out every order she referred originated in Vietnam. Then I noticed there were multiple credit card declines before the successful charges.

        That same night I refunded every order to avoid issues with my merchant account.

        Now I run a closed affiliate program. Only friends and customers can get in.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    My experience with approving affiliates I didn't know was a disaster. They used stolen credit cards to make the purchases, got the commission, emptied out their Paypal accounts and then the chargebacks came in Paypal ... six of them. So you give the criminal affiliates their commission, forfeit the sales and have to pay the chargeback fee as well.

    Put them on delayed or don't approve at all and don't pay them until the dispute period in Paypal is over.

    I personally would automatically reject all those from Vietnam with ZERO sales, but don't be fooled by sales figures. Some of the best con artists have sales (with stolen credit cards).
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  • Profile picture of the author Beatinest
    Interesting thread. I had the same questions just never posted about it so it's great to see them answered.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Run run run!

    I must say that is one of the things I prefer about Warrior Plus over JVZoo. At least every Warrior Plus affiliate has to be linked to an account on this forum so you can check out their members account and get some insight into the person that way.

    With JVZoo though you have virtually no way of knowing who is good and who is bad. It's just a random name and somehow you are suppose to decide whether to approve them or not.

    As such I have basically denied 99% of all affiliate requests on JVZoo. It's just not worth the pain if you approve even one wrong affiliate.
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    • Nick,

      Nice post! I'm happy you asked this question, and that I found your post.

      I have done IM in the past and my experience at that time was about 90% fraudulent contacts from potential buyers. I didn't have any experience and my marketing methods were 'lacking' but I learned quickly that they are crawling the net looking for opportunities.

      Good luck with your launch. Hopefully I will have my first launch within the next couple months!
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    My criteria is this:
    1) If they are using a free email account, they will be denied. Must use an email address based on their own domain name.
    2) If I don't know them, they must provide some live references, like their Facebook page, or other websites where I can learn about them.
    3) Must provide their real name, phone number and/or physical mailing address for reference.
    4) Should have a decent amount of overall sales in the JVzoo system.
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  • Profile picture of the author byebyetummyfat
    wow thank goodness I stumbled across this in before i launched my first product on JVZoo! Thanks for sharing all this experience and advice guys, very much appreciated
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  • Profile picture of the author Yair Dolev
    Imo unless you wanna wake up with a negative Paypal balance you should deny them.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by 4DayWeekend View Post

    So i'm releasing my first MMO product soon and have done all the pre-launch stuff and had quite a few affiliate requests...

    Now, around 75% of the requests have certain similarities -

    Country: Vietnam
    Sales: 0
    Message: I have a list of xxxx people or buyers list of xxxx people

    Now there are a few red flags with these requests in my mind. Firstly it seems weird that 75% of affiliates are from Vietnam. Secondly, if they have buyers lists in the thousands, why are the sales 0?

    I've accepted these guys as 'delayed' as JVZoo suggests. But I'm wondering if there are any further implications of accepting them?

    I guess my main question is, is this normal?

    Any help very appreciated! I want to make sure everything is right before launch.

    Cheers,
    Well, the first time I used both W+ and JVZoo, I just approved all affiliates, not thinking about how many downright criminal affiliates there are, and there are a lot. I instantly got a bunch of sales, then a bunch of Paypal chargebacks from people who "bought" my product but didn't really buy my product. The crooked affiliates were using stolen credit cards. In addition to losing the commission I paid to criminals, I lost the sales of course, plus the additional $25 chargeback fee from Paypal. It was a very expensive lesson.

    Vietnam, 0 sales = NO DICE

    Do some homework on the people before you approve them. Don't approve new affiliates. In W+, it's easy to see if they have a linked WF account. Check it out. I tend not to approve those who do not have a linked acct. JVZoo doesn't have that feature, so you just have to wing it when trying to look them up in JVZoo.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Fortune
    Why search Vietnam subscribers with low conversion when you can have subscribers from the 5 english speaking countries that understand internet and you gonna have your money back ?

    Just focus on USA, New Zealand, Australia, United kingdom, Canada.

    Believe me you don't need to search anywhere else.
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  • Profile picture of the author dhimankartikya
    I am heading on to my first launch, and I can see a bunch of viet nam affiliates with 0 sales in bag requesting affiliate approval from me. I'll now deny them all.
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