Starting To Think The Warrior Forum Is Biase..

143 replies
Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.

Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.

Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


Have a great day everyone,

Eric
#biase #forum #starting #warrior
  • Profile picture of the author dad2four
    whining will definitely help.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author hitesh93
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.

    Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


    Have a great day everyone,

    Eric
    With that type of attitude why would someone want to work with you in a partnership? I've worked with COMPLETE newbies before, without lists or anything simply because they had a very good product and they need a way to get it out there (a couple of them are sitting pretty with around 4k front end sales). But I can tell you right off the bat that people who have an entitled attitude will never get ahead anywhere. If no one is 'helping' you with JVs, why don't you get a JV broker? Why don't you you do it ALL yourself and put out a couple products so people know you are legit? You think all the 'big guys' you're complaining about just magically got there? Everyone grinds their way up in whatever industry and you might want to approach them with that in mind a bit more.
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by hitesh93 View Post

      With that type of attitude why would someone want to work with you in a partnership? I've worked with COMPLETE newbies before, without lists or anything simply because they had a very good product and they need a way to get it out there (a couple of them are sitting pretty with around 4k front end sales). But I can tell you right off the bat that people who have an entitled attitude will never get ahead anywhere. If no one is 'helping' you with JVs, why don't you get a JV broker? Why don't you you do it ALL yourself and put out a couple products so people know you are legit? You think all the 'big guys' you're complaining about just magically got there? Everyone grinds their way up in whatever industry and you might want to approach them with that in mind a bit more.
      Obviously they had to work, but they were given an opportunity aswell, and not to mention marketing back in there days were boyscouts compared to what the new age internet has in store for you. You give help and if your a grateful human being help will be given back.

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.

    Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


    Have a great day everyone,

    Eric
    You have a great product according to who? You? You might think it's great, but it might not be something someone wants to partner with you at this time. Or it might be crap. I don't know. But it's their right not to want to work with you if they don't want to.

    Ranting about it will only cause people not to want to work with you in future. I know I wouldn't want to work with someone who just posted what you did.

    You want to lash out at people who won't work with you and tell the world how you might just decide not to work with them when you get to where they are. That is not something people want to work with either.

    Ranting and whining about this kind of stuff is unproductive. Obviously there's a reason you can't find anyone to JV with you. You might want to try and find out why instead of posting stuff like this.
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

      You have a great product according to who? You? You might think it's great, but it might not be something someone wants to partner with you at this time. Or it might be crap. I don't know. But it's their right not to want to work with you if they don't want to.

      Ranting about it will only cause people not to want to work with you in future. I know I wouldn't want to work with someone who just posted what you did.

      You want to lash out at people who won't work with you and tell the world how you might just decide not to work with them when you get to where they are. That is not something people want to work with either.

      Ranting and whining about this kind of stuff is unproductive. Obviously there's a reason you can't find anyone to JV with you. You might want to try and find out why instead of posting stuff like this.
      No not to just me, I did a launch a while back with no refunds and I also gave out reviews to MATURE warriors and I got nothing back but great feedback. So don't think I am whining, its not whining at all, and I don't need the forum to create a big list, the internet is BIG enough for me to capitalize on it. I am just stating a fact and don't want a hand out I do grind day in and day out probably more then you so called warriors that jumped in the game when everything was easier. You all don't even know the half of work that needs to be done on the internet in 2013 with all the spammers and scammers that the general public knows about now.

      Thanks for your opinion though
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      • Profile picture of the author scrofford
        Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

        I am just stating a fact and don't want a hand out I do grind day in and day out probably more then you so called warriors that jumped in the game when everything was easier. You all don't even know the half of work that needs to be done on the internet in 2013 with all the spammers and scammers that the general public knows about now.
        Thanks for your opinion though
        Now you're assuming and you know what that means! All I'm saying is that there are many other ways to get JV partner's and when people tell you "no" then you've got to take a look as to why they are telling you "no."

        It's either that your product is crap, or it doesn't fit in with what they are doing, or they aren't wanting to work with a new kid on the block right now. It doesn't mean they are all a**holes or that there's something wrong with them.

        Take a look at what you are doing. Your website looks very amature. Don't take that personal. It's just a fact. I wouldn't want to work with you from just seeing your website alone. You could have the greatest product in the world and if you don't give a great first impression, then you're sunk.

        I think you need to take a look at what YOU are doing and try to see WHY people don't want to work with you. Most people don't want to throw away thier reputation. You should make sure that whatever you are trying to do builds the other person's reputation. How can you help them build their business with your product?

        Or, you can continue pissing and moaning about the whole thing and get nowhere like you are now. It's up to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Social App Zone
    Could it be the product? I would expect it would take something very original to achieve what you are trying to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      "NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF"

      If that were really true, and everyone starts from the same place, then how did some folks manage to break through and create that name for themselves?

      I think it's a mis-guided approach to expect the big name marketers to pay attention to you when you have nothing to offer but a product that you say is great.

      The really successful marketers get approached every day for joint ventures asking them to market to their huge lists. They are not going to subject their list (which is typically their biggest asset) to every product and offer that comes along.

      Why don't you try giving first before you ask for favors? In a 50-50 deal, the greatest risk is always with the list owner. Products are a dime a dozen. A large responsive list, on the other hand, is a goldmine.

      Good luck to you,

      Steve
      Signature

      Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
      SteveBrowneDirect

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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        PS If you are referring them to the site in your signature, maybe they went there and they are so confused and distracted by all the flashing widgets and thingamabobs that they don't want to work with you.
        This.

        I'm almost frightened of replying to you at all, Eric, after your comment about "everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy", so I just hope you'll appreciate that I'm saying this not to try to be rude to you, but to see if you want to think about it and maybe make some changes, which might help you. Because I strongly suspect that you're genuinely unaware of this.

        I had a (very) quick look at the page in your sig-file and couldn't run away quickly enough, and I suspect that that may be true of many of your visitors, and I'm kind of "wondering" about the impression that must make on people who might otherwise potentially be interested in a JV with you ... :confused:

        I also think, exactly as Steve is explaining above, that you may have a (shall we say) "somewhat unorthodox view" of the respective values of (a) a product and (b) a responsive list?

        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        Products are a dime a dozen. A large responsive list, on the other hand, is a goldmine.
        This. Exactly.

        Wishing you good luck, Eric.
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        • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          This.

          I'm almost frightened of replying to you at all, Eric, after your comment about "everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy", so I just hope you'll appreciate that I'm saying this not to try to be rude to you, but to see if you want to think about it and maybe make some changes, which might help you. Because I strongly suspect that you're genuinely unaware of this.

          I had a (very) quick look at the page in your sig-file and couldn't run away quickly enough, and I suspect that that may be true of many of your visitors, and I'm kind of "wondering" about the impression that must make on people who might otherwise potentially be interested in a JV with you ... :confused:

          I also think, exactly as Steve is explaining above, that you may have a (shall we say) "somewhat unorthodox view" of the respective values of (a) a product and (b) a responsive list?



          This. Exactly.

          Wishing you good luck, Eric.
          Thanks for your input and like I said I just put that site in my sig, I am still working on tweaking it of course(Every One Doesn't Put Up a Site Without Tweaking and Testing Right?) and also unorthodox, weird, funny, stupid are all things that some successful marketer has in one way or another and they are multimillionaires.

          Thanks again my friend :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by Social App Zone View Post

      Could it be the product? I would expect it would take something very original to achieve what you are trying to do.
      My product is completely original. Like I stated friend I launched it a while back with no refunds, no marketing and no complaints. I also gave out reviews and everyone praised it. I guess its because my product is NO FLUFF and a real business model and just about every wso is the complete opposite. Real business models with no name in the industry gets you no respect on the WF.

      Have a good one friend.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Why not try giving first instead of taking? You accuse others of being selfish but in a quick look at your some of your recent posts here, I didn't see a single one that helped anyone else.

    50/50 "deals" can be made and are made all day every day. If no one takes you up on your "deal", then you need to sweeten it. What are you willing to give up to get your first successful product out there? You willing to do 25/75?

    You make a name for yourself by giving in one way or another - by adding value - not by whining.

    Best of luck. You'll need it unless you get a checkup from the neck up.

    Mark

    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.

    Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


    Have a great day everyone,

    Eric
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Why not try giving first instead of taking? You accuse others of being selfish but in a quick look at your some of your recent posts here, I didn't see a single one that helped anyone else.

      50/50 "deals" can be made and are made all day every day. If no one takes you up on your "deal", then you need to sweeten it. What are you willing to give up to get your first successful product out there? You willing to do 25/75?

      You make a name for yourself by giving in one way or another - by adding value - not by whining.

      Best of luck. You'll need it unless you get a checkup from the neck up.

      Mark
      Very funny, and yes I thought about doing it 25/75 and might still do it. Once again i'm not whining, the fact remains is that i'm still in the game regardless. Just because some people on the WF are full of BS don't mean its no chance of success. I salute all the WF vets for their accomplishment and I will one day get to rub elbows with them when I get to the top. And your right maybe I do need to get a check up from the neck up for seeing all the BS WSO's on here..haha(I did just get out the NAVY, what have you done?)

      Great advice friend.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
    you don't need to do conventional jv's get out there and write some guest posts, talk to some people who are selling on other platforms, do a free WSO and increase your list etc etc. There are a ton of forums like this one out there get a free ad on all that you can and/or sell your poduct outright. Do a free giveaway and jv like that make it a no brainer for your jv's i promise you they will be eating out of your hands. You just need to think out of the box and don't listen to the lousy comments on this thread either. People like to jump on someone having a problem sometimes instead of helping. Human nature just ignore it.

    your next proposal:

    All you have to do is promote my product to your list and you make 75-80%, plus i'll put your ad on the fulfillment page of my free WSO along with 3 others and guess what we are all promoting this, you stand to get a ton of traffic and think of all the commissions you will get from promoting of my offer to your list as well.

    Thats as plain as I can make it for you all that for free. Now go do it.
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

      you don't need to do conventional jv's get out there and write some guest posts, talk to some people who are selling on other platforms, do a free WSO and increase your list etc etc. There are a ton of forums like this one out there get a free ad on all that you can and/or sell your poduct outright. Do a free giveaway and jv like that make it a no brainer for your jv's i promise you they will be eating out of your hands. You just need to think out of the box and don't listen to the lousy comments on this thread either. People like to jump on someone having a problem sometimes instead of helping. Human nature just ignore it.

      your next proposal:

      All you have to do is promote my product to your list and you make 75-80%, plus i'll put your ad on the fulfillment page of my free WSO along with 3 others and guess what we are all promoting this, you stand to get a ton of traffic and think of all the commissions you will get from promoting of my offer to your list as well.

      Thats as plain as I can make it for you all that for free. Now go do it.
      It takes a REAL woman to join the thread to talk with some since. You are the type of warrior that I look up to not the one's making sarcastic remarks.

      Thanks a lot and I will take your advice for sure!

      Eric
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    PS If you are referring them to the site in your signature, maybe they went there and they are so confused and distracted by all the flashing widgets and thingamabobs that they don't want to work with you.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Social App Zone
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      PS If you are referring them to the site in your signature, maybe they went there and they are so confused and distracted by all the flashing widgets and thingamabobs that they don't want to work with you.

      Mark
      That is a good point. Probably the first place the OP should start. It gave me a headache and was confusing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
        like your signature you mean? which one should I click on first? Common guys her site is not the issue and you know it. Nobody cares about that they care about what they are gonna get out of it and it has nothing to do with experience. The person with experience can get a better deal thats how it works but anybody can jv if they are unselfish.

        Originally Posted by Social App Zone View Post

        That is a good point. Probably the first place the OP should start. It gave me a headache and was confusing.
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      • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
        Originally Posted by Social App Zone View Post

        That is a good point. Probably the first place the OP should start. It gave me a headache and was confusing.
        My site is very professional compared to other sites that site on google right now. It will get some tweaks trust me, and thanks for you input.
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        • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
          Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

          My site is very professional compared to other sites that site on google right now. It will get some tweaks trust me, and thanks for you input.
          Seriously. Your site looks terrible. Too much flashing things and pop ups and things moving. Gave me a headache.

          We're not all saying this just be dickheads. Your site genuinely looks terrible.

          Accept it and fix it or refuse to believe it and leave it as it is...no loss to us.

          I feel the reason you've not got any JV opportunities yet is because you aren't prepared to give anything. Simpy having what you claim is an incredible product isn't enough, what do the JVs care about that? What's in it for them? How will they benefit from it? And 50% of $7 (the average WSO price) isn't much for something that might not even sell.

          Before you ask for something from people give them something for free / with no expectations upfront first. Don't do it just because you're going to turn around and ask them to do something for you 5 minutes later either. People will see right through this.
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      PS If you are referring them to the site in your signature, maybe they went there and they are so confused and distracted by all the flashing widgets and thingamabobs that they don't want to work with you.

      Mark
      I just started promoting that site in my sig link, but thanks anyway for your input which I don't acknowledge and for your further information since you did you proper research on my site I just now put in my sig, it does convert.

      Have a great day
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

        I just started promoting that site in my sig link, but thanks anyway for your input which I don't acknowledge and for your further information since you did you proper research on my site I just now put in my sig, it does convert.

        Have a great day
        This isn't sarcastic?
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.
    How is that not whining? Would you prefer if people had used the word "complaining"? It's a fine distinction, and I fail to see how a reading of your op could possibly contradict either impression.

    Why would you expect people not to call you on it when you start a thread with an angry, combative post asserting that nobody will help the little guy, how what you experienced is BS, and due to other Warriors being selfish people who won't give you the chance you deserve, and you even top it off with a threat to turn the tables and ignore them once you are in demand?

    Did you really expect people to pop in and apologize or commiserate with you for how badly we've been treating you?
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

      How is that not whining?
      Some may see it as whining and some may see it as reality. I am typing and not speaking to you face to face, so anything that is typed is taken out of context. And I remember you, I should be whining from the wso I bought from you a while back that I didn't get no results from after constant implementation..lol. Not meaning to disrespect you my friend just speaking my mind as you have done just now.

      All the best

      Eric
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

        Some may see it as whining and some may see it as reality. I am typing and not speaking to you face to face, so anything that is typed is taken out of context. And I remember you, I should be whining from the wso I bought from you a while back that I didn't get no results from after constant implementation..lol. Not meaning to disrespect you my friend just speaking my mind as you have done just now.

        All the best

        Eric
        No disrespect taken my friend; speak your mind, and I'll do my best not to take it personally.

        What WSO was it? I am shocked that my WSO didn't work for you. Let me see what I can do to make it up to you.
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        • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
          Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

          No disrespect taken my friend; speak your mind, and I'll do my best not to take it personally.

          What WSO was it? I am shocked that my WSO didn't work for you. Let me see what I can do to make it up to you.
          It was YEARS ago and buried DEEP in my hard drive..lol. It's ok, I don't need you to make it up to me my friend. I hope you spent my hard earned money I paid you wisely..lol(Just a little since of humor, since everyone is mad at me).

          Wish you much success,

          Eric
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          • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
            Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

            It was YEARS ago and buried DEEP in my hard drive..lol. It's ok, I don't need you to make it up to me my friend. I hope you spent my hard earned money I paid you wisely..lol(Just a little since of humor, since everyone is mad at me).

            Wish you much success,

            Eric
            Well I have a confession to make; I was kidding around a bit when I made that last post; sorry I couldn't resist going along with the idea that I sold you a bad WSO; it made me chuckle.

            I have been known to have embarrassing lapses of memory now and then, but I have not launched any WSOs to my knowledge. If I did and forgot, maybe I can sell my story for the next "Bourne" movie (although without Matt Damon, it really isn't much of a Bourne movie, is it?).

            I don't think people are mad at you. There is a difference between criticizing you for your attitude and being mad. I think you are a bit on the defensive side, and it is getting in your way. That seems to be the majority opinion.

            The majority can be wrong, and the minority of one (or perhaps two, if the "real woman", Claire, also thinks your problem lies entirely with selfish biased Warriors that won't give you a chance, and those who criticized your attitude as well as your site in this thread), can be right, but more often the reverse is true, which seems to me to clearly be the case here.

            If you won't at least consider the possibility that you really do need to dial down the defenses for your own benefit, that your critics might have one or two valid points, I believe that refusal is going to keep you stuck in the point of view that people who are really trying to help you, are just adversaries who won't give a guy a chance.

            For what it's worth, (probably nothing) I agree with the need to declutter your site.
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            • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
              Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

              Well I have a confession to make; I was kidding around a bit when I made that last post; sorry I couldn't resist going along with the idea that I sold you a bad WSO; it made me chuckle.

              I have been known to have embarrassing lapses of memory now and then, but I have not launched any WSOs to my knowledge. If I did and forgot, maybe I can sell my story for the next "Bourne" movie (although without Matt Damon, it really isn't much of a Bourne movie, is it?).

              I don't think people are mad at you. There is a difference between criticizing you for your attitude and being mad. I think you are a bit on the defensive side, and it is getting in your way. That seems to be the majority opinion.

              The majority can be wrong, and the minority of one (or perhaps two, if the "real woman", Claire, also thinks your problem lies entirely with selfish biased Warriors that won't give you a chance, and those who criticized your attitude as well as your site in this thread), can be right, but more often the reverse is true, which seems to me to clearly be the case here.

              If you won't at least consider the possibility that you really do need to dial down the defenses for your own benefit, that your critics might have one or two valid points, I believe that refusal is going to keep you stuck in the point of view that people who are really trying to help you, are just adversaries who won't give a guy a chance.

              For what it's worth, (probably nothing) I agree with the need to declutter your site.
              I am in no way shape form or fashion mad and you can not tell me how I act towards other warriors. I am very professional and in no way do I come off to them as they owe me anything. I am kind and respectful and if they don't want to work with me I do not PM them with any bad venting at all. You need to know me in order to judge me so if I was you I would stay in your lane. And by the way you DID put out a WSO and if I had the time to search for it I would screen shot it and post it on this thread which I may just do.

              Have a good day

              Eric
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

            It was YEARS ago and buried DEEP in my hard drive..lol. It's ok, I don't need you to make it up to me my friend. I hope you spent my hard earned money I paid you wisely..lol(Just a little since of humor, since everyone is mad at me).

            Wish you much success,

            Eric

            I hope his wso wasn't something you implemented on your site in your sig. I took a quick look and couldn't really tell what you were selling.
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            • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

              I hope his wso wasn't something you implemented on your site in your sig. I took a quick look and couldn't really tell what you were selling.
              Hey "my WSO" was definitely not something he implemented on his site or anywhere else. Before I get a reputation for putting out crap WSOs, let me repeat that he has me confused with someone else, as I have not ever launched a WSO, to my knowledge.
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            • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

              I hope his wso wasn't something you implemented on your site in your sig. I took a quick look and couldn't really tell what you were selling.
              I'm not selling anything basically, its just an info site my friend.
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

      How is that not whining? Would you prefer if people had used the word "complaining"? It's a fine distinction, and I fail to see how a reading of your op could possibly contradict either impression.

      Why would you expect people not to call you on it when you start a thread with an angry, combative post asserting that nobody will help the little guy, how what you experienced is BS, and due to other Warriors being selfish people who won't give you the chance you deserve, and you even top it off with a threat to turn the tables and ignore them once you are in demand?

      Did you really expect people to pop in and apologize or commiserate with you for how badly we've been treating you?
      First and foremost my friend, I have been on here long enough and have seen newbies come on here GENUINELY starting a thread looking for a helping hand and pleading for someone to show them a SYSTEM not give them MONEY and still get BASHED to next year..REALLY. So if you think I care about starting a thread if what seems to as ANGRY, which I'm not then you are mistaken my friend. Like I said if you EVER went to college like I have done and have taken Business Communication classes you would know that communicating through email or any sort of online venture, you will often get your communicating misunderstood which is out of my hands. I'm not looking to please anyone just starting a genuine conversation.

      Nice input though

      Eric
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  • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.
    Last October when I was still fairly new here, a VERY experienced Warrior approached little ol' me to JV with him. The only name I'd made for myself on the WF was the fact I'd posted a number of times. And the IM world didn't and still doesn't know I exist (my own fault, but you get the point). Yet this well-known Warrior took me under his wing. Due to issues beyond my control I wasn't able to continue with him after the first month or so, but the relationship was great while it lasted, and I'm sure we could pick up where we left off if I approached him about it.

    So no, it's nothing to do with who you are, and the WF is not biased. Perhaps there is a little of it going around, but you get that everywhere in life. Deal with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by Joel Young View Post

      Last October when I was still fairly new here, a VERY experienced Warrior approached little ol' me to JV with him. The only name I'd made for myself on the WF was the fact I'd posted a number of times. And the IM world didn't and still doesn't know I exist (my own fault, but you get the point). Yet this well-known Warrior took me under his wing. Due to issues beyond my control I wasn't able to continue with him after the first month or so, but the relationship was great while it lasted, and I'm sure we could pick up where we left off if I approached him about it.

      So no, it's nothing to do with who you are, and the WF is not biased. Perhaps there is a little of it going around, but you get that everywhere in life. Deal with it.
      Once again, I'm not saying that it cannot nor will not happen. I am still going strong regardless of who comes along with me for the adventure or not. The fact that there are bias people on the WF or in the WORLD, its not stopping my dedication and passion for IM and to help others out. I have been around the world in the NAVY to know how to deal with bias individuals so it does not affect me at all my friend, im still motivated and determined to get where I want to in life.

      Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeMack
    It's not enough to simply take action. You have to take the correct action, and obviously you aren't. You may not think that your thread came across as "whining", but I am guessing that many Warriors did see it that way.

    So you are upset because people aren't bending over backward to work with an unknown marketer for a 50/50 split? Wouldn't it make more sense for the people you are approaching to instead promote one of the countless affiliate programs that will may a much better than 50% commission?

    Joint ventures can be highly profitable if one right. If done incorrectly or with someone that isn't ready for it, it can quickly turn into a nightmare.

    I wish you the best. And I do hope that you take the advice that a number of Warriors have given you. No, it has nothing to do with fixing your confusing site.

    You need to change the attitude. When it seems like the world is against you, you probably should be looking in the mirror to "fix" what's wrong.

    Much Success,

    JoeMack
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post

      It's not enough to simply take action. You have to take the correct action, and obviously you aren't. You may not think that your thread came across as "whining", but I am guessing that many Warriors did see it that way.

      So you are upset because people aren't bending over backward to work with an unknown marketer for a 50/50 split? Wouldn't it make more sense for the people you are approaching to instead promote one of the countless affiliate programs that will may a much better than 50% commission?

      Joint ventures can be highly profitable if one right. If done incorrectly or with someone that isn't ready for it, it can quickly turn into a nightmare.

      I wish you the best. And I do hope that you take the advice that a number of Warriors have given you. No, it has nothing to do with fixing your confusing site.

      You need to change the attitude. When it seems like the world is against you, you probably should be looking in the mirror to "fix" what's wrong.

      Much Success,

      JoeMack
      I'm not looking for people to bend over backwards to me I am naturally a hard worker and don't look for any handouts in life. All I am in the game for is to build strong friendships and partners not to take,take,take. I want to change people's lives, and I'm not the one that takes anothers help for granted. If anything I bend over backwards to GENUINELY help others. Like I learned in the NAVY, its teamwork that gets the job done. If one person lacks or fails then everyone fails, we help each other and treat everyone as brothers.

      Thanks for the advice
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

        Like I learned in the NAVY, its teamwork that gets the job done. If one person lacks or fails then everyone fails, we help each other and treat everyone as brothers.
        Have you helped anyone besides yourself?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.
    I can understand your frustration, having been there myself many years ago. But this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.

    Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.
    Let me offer you a different perspective. During any given month, I receive roughly 50 plus JV offers across 3 niches. Bear in mind that I already have my core group of JV partners whom I've done business with over the past 14 years, and in just ONE niche, they number at 30 JV partners.

    Those relationships took me YEARS to build. Some of which I started with when I was a nobody in that niche.

    So when a new person comes along with their cut and paste e-mail or PM that they'll offer me a 50% of the cut, therein lies the issue:

    1. There are already others ahead of you.
    2. I don't know you and unless you have your conversion numbers ready for me to view, why should I even look at your offer?

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


    Have a great day everyone,

    Eric
    Eric, I sense you're writing out of frustration and hey, I get that. But really, when I first got started NO ONE wanted to work with me. I felt the EXACT same way.

    So here's what I did:

    I created my own KICK ASS product line.

    I bought paid traffic and sent it to my sales page.

    I tested and tweaked that sales page that went from 1 sale in 450 visitors to 1 sale in 85 visitors. That took me about 3 to 4 months to do by the way.

    I built up my list to 10,000 prospects and my buyer's list as well.

    Then, and ONLY, then did I go back and begin contacting people.

    I had my conversion numbers. I paid a healthy 90% commission on the front end because on the back end I would more than make up for it (sometimes I offer 100% or MORE on the lead product because I already know my numbers ahead of time and the backend product strategy is where the real money is made).

    So quit complaining, man up, and get back to work. No one is going to hand success to you on a platter. Give people more concrete reasons to do business with you other than a nice product and a 50% commission. Have your numbers ready to go!

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author rdbranson
      So here's what I did:

      I created my own KICK ASS product line.

      I bought paid traffic and sent it to my sales page.

      I tested and tweaked that sales page that went from 1 sale in 450 visitors to 1 sale in 85 visitors. That took me about 3 to 4 months to do by the way.

      I built up my list to 10,000 prospects and my buyer's list as well.
      RoD
      Can you share when you did this? Am doing some time trends research on this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Why not really go hard getting some JV partners?

    I bet if you took out a banner, and promoted yourself asking for some legit partners, you'd get some response.

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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Mensah
    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Only thing with that quote is that once you turn the other cheek you become just like them. So makes me wonder that they probably had it rough just like you and decided to turn the other cheek so it's just a round circle. Now i know things are tough but I guarantee you if you knock on 50 doors 1 person will let you in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    Lol, people are trying to carve their own niche, what is bias about that? It was selfish for you to take out a thread like this, just because somebody didn't want to JV with you.


    Signature
    " I knew that if I failed, I wouldn't regret that.
    But I knew the one thing I might regret is not ever having tried. "

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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.

    Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


    Have a great day everyone,

    Eric
    Eric,

    1. If you have a 'the world owes me' type attitude then you won't get very far. No one here owes you anything. That's not me trying to be harsh, it's just the truth. It might not be fair but life isn't fair. I admire that you are working hard and keep doing just that. Remember the old saying that says the harder you work, the luckier you get. It's very true.

    2. If you contact people out of the blue and right away ask them to do something for you, what do you really expect? Sure, you might be giving them 50% of the profits but they are also having to risk 100% of their reputation.

    I have seen several 50/50 deals go sour where a well established seller has had their reputation tarnished because of a JV deal that went wrong. Either the product stopped working or the partner didn't keep their end of the deal in regards to support or other things.

    So your offer of a 50/50 split to me is really not that enticing at all. Most successful product creators have several products already sitting in the pipeline and they get to keep 100% of the profits and have full control over their reputation. If I don't know you at all then the risk of partnering with you often far outweighs any advantage.

    I get these types of offers all the time and I must admit I almost always turn them down.

    So, what do I recommend you do?

    If you really want to show people you mean business then create a product and go and offer it to a well established seller where they can keep 100% of the profits, not just 50%. The deal can be they get to keep 100% of the profits and you get to keep the list of buyers that is built. If your product is really good then it's free money for the seller. But again, your product has to be really good and worthy of the seller putting their reputation on the line.

    I hope that helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    When you're approaching ANYONE with a joint venture proposal
    they're going to ask themselves several questions:

    # Who is this person?

    # Have I met him? Have I talked to him or exchanged emails with
    him? Do we have any kind of existing relationship?

    # Has he ever done anything for me in the past?

    # Does he have any resources (like a list similar to mine or bigger
    than mine...or traffic...or a great reputation).

    # Is he a person of honesty or integrity?

    # Is what he's offering directly competitive with something I'm offering?

    # Is he offering something of genuine value to my customers and email
    subscribers...something I can't offer them?


    Generally speaking when you start doing joint ventures you start
    where you're at...doing them with people who are at your level
    of accomplishment or slightly higher and you grow together.

    If you want to do a joint venture with a big name marketer you're
    first going to have to build a relationship or do something remarkable
    to get their attention...or both.

    This takes some thought and some work.

    When you've been a marketer for many years it becomes a whole lot
    more obvious that relationships are built over many years and joint
    venture partners grow together.

    The guy who has a list of a couple of hundred subscribers today and
    is working his butt off can be a major marketer in two or three years
    time.

    It does happen occassionally that someone nails a joint venture with
    someone who has a monster list but it's not common and it's nearly
    always because they took some time to build a relationship of trust
    with the owner of the list and they had something unique to offer.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
    Lets say that you went to a party and you glanced around and noticed a few people that were not exactly friends but you have seen them at other functions or events.

    You start walking up to them one by one and try to pitch them on an idea you have eliminating bulky cans of soup with your new and improved bag-O-soup, soup in a bag. They would look at you and say get lost!

    Imagine this forum as one big party, approaching members that you don't really know or have never communicated with would be the same thing as the bag-O-soup guy at the party. Try forming relationships with members here before approaching someone with your own self interest in mind.

    I also noticed that on your site you have a tab called OTO and it leads to a page that is offering a product that for sale that was created by a forum member that gives that product away for free.


    If you want to be taken seriously then you really should create your own product.
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  • Profile picture of the author tyronne78
    People are tuned into one station which is WIIFM (What's In It For Me). So if I'm trying to approach a big name marketer to get a JV deal I'm going to let him/her know how they can benefit. That's how you get their attention, most people make it all about them and that's why they get ignored when seeking out a JV deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author mbacak
    I'm really at awe... with this post.

    I don't even know what to say... as head shakes.
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  • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.
    From the looks of your post, you want someone to take you to the next level and that's not going to happen for free.

    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.
    So if the person you JV with sends you 1000 customers, why are they only getting 50% commission? You wouldn't have had ANY of those sales without them. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how great your product is if you can't get people to buy it so be more generous.

    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.
    Then build a name for yourself. Over time - it's not going to come instantly.

    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.
    And you see why you're in the position you're in now? Keep the cycle going, real mature.

    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.
    I doubt that day will come. You'll keep up with this attitude and eventually become too frustrated and quit. Prove me wrong.
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    • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
      Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

      From the looks of your post, you want someone to take you to the next level and that's not going to happen for free.



      So if the person you JV with sends you 1000 customers, why are they only getting 50% commission? You wouldn't have had ANY of those sales without them. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how great your product is if you can't get people to buy it so be more generous.



      Then build a name for yourself. Over time - it's not going to come instantly.



      And you see why you're in the position you're in now? Keep the cycle going, real mature.



      I doubt that day will come. You'll keep up with this attitude and eventually become too frustrated and quit. Prove me wrong.
      My friend let me just clear some things up, I thank you for your input but the quote where I said I will turn the other cheek when I get a big high converting list, I was just being sarcastic, why would I do the same thing that other marketers do? I will not act as so and just want to improve the quality of the IM world.

      Thanks

      Eric
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    • Profile picture of the author hometutor
      Eric,

      I had to learn this trick so my college professors could understand the papers I wrote. Would you please, forget you know anything at all about your site (lack of title tag and all)

      Empty your mind completely
      Go to your site

      Now, see if you know what it's about.

      Rick
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    • Profile picture of the author hsbinmarket
      People come into warrior forum not to search partners.
      Just to discuss the upto date information and marketing strategies, to share experience and provide some help. Its not a direct business place. Its a forum.

      Ur expectation is different so u have a bad feelings about WF.

      If you like to get strawberry from a grapes field, u must be frustrated at the end.
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      Do not put the links to a malware-infected site back in your signature

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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.
    So maybe everyone else here has had to work just as hard (if not harder than you) to get where they are today and THAT is also why they don't just want to give it all away to someone like yourself so easily.
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.
    A 50/50 deal is not as good as you imagine.

    First of all, you have to have proven conversion capability before any serious affiliate will ever send traffic your way.

    Secondly, since affiliates drive the traffic and send the buyers, they are really the ones doing 90% of the work. There are products out there that pay 100% front end commissions. Not just 50%. Why do they do it? Because they have an established backend that will make them money off the new customer.

    Your 50/50 deal is not as amazing as you think it is. On Clickbank, it's also pretty common to see product creators paying 75% commissions. You have to give affiliates a reason to choose to send their traffic to your product rather than the dozens and dozens of other products out there.

    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


    Have a great day everyone,

    Eric
    With an attitude like that, I can imagine why they don't want to work with you
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by Curtis2011 View Post

      A 50/50 deal is not as good as you imagine.

      First of all, you have to have proven conversion capability before any serious affiliate will ever send traffic your way.

      Secondly, since affiliates drive the traffic and send the buyers, they are really the ones doing 90% of the work. There are products out there that pay 100% front end commissions. Not just 50%. Why do they do it? Because they have an established backend that will make them money off the new customer.
      I think you are confused by his offer.

      A 50/50 JV deal does not mean the vendor is getting 50% commissions. It means they are getting to put their name on the product (as though it was their own) and get 50% of all sales made. It's as though they are a 50/50 partner on the product with the product creator.

      An affiliate only gets a percentage of sales THEY make. A JV deal is where both parties get a percentage of ALL sales for that product -- including those made by other affiliates.
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      • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post

        I think you are confused by his offer.

        A 50/50 JV deal does not mean the vendor is getting 50% commissions. It means they are getting to put their name on the product (as though it was their own) and get 50% of all sales made. It's as though they are a 50/50 partner on the product with the product creator.

        An affiliate only gets a percentage of sales THEY make. A JV deal is where both parties get a percentage of ALL sales for that product -- including those made by other affiliates.
        I guess I should have read the whole thread before posting then... whoops :rolleyes:

        Edit: But still after reading his offer, it sounds like crap. He wants someone else to do the hard part of marketing the product (which is 80% of the work).

        Think about it: If someone else has all the skills necessary to market a product and drive buyers to the sales page, what exactly does he need a product creator for to take 50% of the sales? The marketer could just, as I said, go to Clickbank and find a product that pays 75% or more in commissions, and drive traffic to that. Chances are high that a product that has been on Clickbank for 1+ years and has been split tested a lot would also have much higher conversions to boot.
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        • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
          Originally Posted by Curtis2011 View Post

          I guess I should have read the whole thread before posting then... whoops :rolleyes:

          Edit: But still after reading his offer, it sounds like crap. He wants someone else to do the hard part of marketing the product (which is 80% of the work).

          Think about it: If someone else has all the skills necessary to market a product and drive buyers to the sales page, what exactly does he need a product creator for to take 50% of the sales? The marketer could just, as I said, go to Clickbank and find a product that pays 75% or more in commissions, and drive traffic to that. Chances are high that a product that has been on Clickbank for 1+ years and has been split tested a lot would also have much higher conversions to boot.
          No I just forgot to post that in the 50/50 deal, my name and his name would be on the product. He could add more information if he wanted after reviewing my product but it is complete.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    You are wrong. You don't need a name for yourself. You need to have a real relationship with people who can help you.

    Focus on a relationship from a human perspective first, and leave the "I want something from you" until after you have built the relationship.


    Starting To Think The Warrior Forum Is Biase..

    Are you finally "starting to think that people are bias", or are you finally "starting to think for yourself"?
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  • Profile picture of the author mbacak
    btw... interesting fact, no matter who you are:

    People you want to help you won't always,
    but people that you never expect will!

    I really wish everyone would promote for me
    every time I do something but reality is they
    don't and won't! Including my closest friends.

    I hope this helps you because I know how you
    feel but you MUST keep moving forward and get
    over it quickly because it's always going to happen
    no matter who you are...
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    Make a name for yourself, and people will JV will you. Try more doing instead of expecting. Favors are never forgotten in IM, bring someone some sales, and they will bring you some sales.
    Signature
    " I knew that if I failed, I wouldn't regret that.
    But I knew the one thing I might regret is not ever having tried. "

    ~ Jeff Bezos

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    • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
      here's an example of a free giveaway page someone just sent to me you see how they all banded together? He gave away ONE good report that people will love no optin so he got all the people there first and then everyone is building their lists together keep it profesional but thats how to do it.... . its an example don't copy it do your own thing. He sent it to his list I am on. Dann Vicker is a senior warrior. He knows his stuff. Get on dans list and on lots of warrior's lists and you will see plenty of this stuff. How do you think I grew and learned things and all these people common you all know better.

      How to get on warrior's lists. Go to the wso section download some good free offers look up names of warriors in the search engines you can tell who is who by checking profiles.

      I'm asking you all to let this go please leave him alone. he just made a bad choice with his subject line. geeee wizzzz lets not forget from whense we came.

      Amazing FREE Gifts For You!

      can I just ask you to stop answering everyone its simply a chain reaction that is happening.

      do something like this ok its free go contact clickbank people or paydotcom people and take a little breather we all get a little bit of this in forums and then after awhile it gets better don't take this to heart please its not worth it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post


        I'm asking you all to let this go please leave him alone. he just made a bad choice with his subject line. geeee wizzzz lets not forget from whense we came.
        It isn't like everyone is picking on him Claire. People have made some very helpful comments, most of which he argued with. If you want us to stop beating a dead horse, it might help if you were to stop defending him, and pretending that the only problem was his choice of subject lines.

        I don't know from whence you came, but I am pretty sure I never started any threads complaining about how selfish Warriors are because they didn't jump at the chance to partner up with me. I don't see most Warriors doing that at any point; whether they joined yesterday or 10 years ago.

        I might well become friends with the guy; it isn't like any of us condemned him, but the op was striking in it's whiny tone, and most of his posts that followed were equally striking in their defensive tone. Just because he thinks you're a goddess doesn't mean you're obligated to keep beseeching us to give the guy a break. One contrite word from him would end all critical remarks. Why not beseech him to be open to constructive criticism rather than lecture us all on tolerence?
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        • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
          Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

          It isn't like everyone is picking on him Claire. People have made some very helpful comments, most of which he argued with. If you want us to stop beating a dead horse, it might help if you were to stop defending him, and pretending that the only problem was his choice of subject lines.

          I don't know from whence you came, but I am pretty sure I never started any threads complaining about how selfish Warriors are because they didn't jump at the chance to partner up with me. I don't see most Warriors doing that at any point; whether they joined yesterday or 10 years ago.

          I might well become friends with the guy; it isn't like any of us condemned him, but the op was striking in it's whiny tone, and most of his posts that followed were equally striking in their defensive tone. Just because he thinks you're a goddess doesn't mean you're obligated to keep beseeching us to give the guy a break. One contrite word from him would end all critical remarks. Why not beseech him to be open to constructive criticism rather than lecture us all on tolerence?
          Ok, listen my friend because it seems as if its hard to get this into your skull. You or anyone else can not condemn me only GOD as what you others think about me is inconclusive because you all DO NOT know how I act business wise. I just started a thread with a controversial subject line because I knew that others would input valuable info, that if a newbie or others that come to the forum feel the same way, which I know they do because of all the crap WSO's on here, they will pick up some helpful info.

          And no, I don't think claire is a goddess(aren't you being sarcastic? Real Mature) I just stated that she provided VALUABLE information like a respected WARRIOR would and not jump in the defense and bash like the most of you are doing now. That's the problem with a lot of warriors(Not all), you start making some consistent profits and you think your better than newbies or others that are still struggling.

          And trust me NO one can run me off as anyone can act as a TOUGH guy behind a computer screen, but in real life they hide their face and are very timid. I come from a hard background, family struggled, lights turned off, gun shots, gang violence, seeing close friends and family killed because of childish individuals etc, and despite it all I still did not become a product of my environment, went to the NAVY and became successful. I'm just venturing into more success.

          Have a great day,

          Eric
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          • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
            Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

            Ok, listen my friend because it seems as if its hard to get this into your skull. You or anyone else can not condemn me only GOD as what you others think about me is inconclusive because you all DO NOT know how I act business wise. I just started a thread with a controversial subject line because I knew that others would input valuable info, that if a newbie or others that come to the forum feel the same way, which I know they do because of all the crap WSO's on here, they will pick up some helpful info.

            And no, I don't think claire is a goddess(aren't you being sarcastic? Real Mature) I just stated that she provided VALUABLE information like a respected WARRIOR would and not jump in the defense and bash like the most of you are doing now. That's the problem with a lot of warriors(Not all), you start making some consistent profits and you think your better than newbies or others that are still struggling.

            And trust me NO one can run me off as anyone can act as a TOUGH guy behind a computer screen, but in real life they hide their face and are very timid. I come from a hard background, family struggled, lights turned off, gun shots, gang violence, seeing close friends and family killed because of childish individuals etc, and despite it all I still did not become a product of my environment, went to the NAVY and became successful. I'm just venturing into more success.

            Have a great day,

            Eric
            Believe it or not, I am happy for any success you have had or will have, and the fact that you did not succumb to gang violence. However, nobody gets out of childhood unscathed. Defensiveness might have been necessary to survive your environment, but it isn't needed, nor is it helping you here.

            Nobody is trying to be "tough", nor condemn you, bash you, nor run you off; far from it. I would be happy to meet you in person, not to fight, but to show you that I actually do wish you well. This isn't the navy, nor is it a violent neighborhood, and we aren't at war, regardless of the fact that it's called the "Warrior Forum".

            Right now though, sadly it seems nobody is going to get through your defenses, unless they chime in agreeing with your view that you are under attack, simply because people criticized your hostile words. But you and Claire are imo, both misreading all the critical posts in thinking they are meant to put you down. It's a shame, because this is an amazingly supportive community overall, and with your current attitude, I believe it is impossible for you to experience it that way.

            What else can I say? I would be happy to shake your hand, but first you'd have to unclench your fist.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
              this...............(DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO STARTED THE "tHIS.... STUFF I'VE SEEN IT A LOT OF T TIMES i THINK ITS OBNOXIOUS) LOL

              Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

              Believe it or not, I am happy for any success you have had or will have, and the fact that you did not succumb to gang violence. However, nobody gets out of childhood unscathed. Defensiveness might have been necessary to survive your environment, but it isn't needed, nor is it helping you here.

              Nobody is trying to be "tough", nor condemn you, bash you, nor run you off; far from it. I would be happy to meet you in person, not to fight, but to show you that I actually do wish you well. This isn't the navy, nor is it a violent neighborhood, and we aren't at war, regardless of the fact that it's called the "Warrior Forum".

              Right now though, sadly it seems nobody is going to get through your defenses, unless they chime in agreeing with your view that you are under attack, simply because people criticized your hostile words. But you and Claire are imo, both misreading all the critical posts in thinking they are meant to put you down. It's a shame, because this is an amazingly supportive community overall, and with your current attitude, I believe it is impossible for you to experience it that way.

              What else can I say? I would be happy to shake your hand, but first you'd have to unclench your fist.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

            You need to know me in order to judge me
            Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

            You or anyone else can not condemn me only GOD

            Yet, you are competent to "judge" and "condemn" a whole group of people in the forum, because they are not running to JV with you on your products?

            So, are you proposing that we should do as you say, not what you do?
            Signature
            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
          You usually don't do this greg. You know too that it has happened to you. Its like a bunch of kids beating the crap out of each other or drunks in a bar perhaps. We are all stooping to the wrong level when we gang up on someone. I'm not defending him as much as I think its immature and wrong,,,, it was painful when it happened years ago to me.

          In fact someone chased me out a paid club. It wasn't that person that lost the income it was the owner of the club.

          And thats my point. I don't care if it was one person doing it. Its stupid for warriors to get into it (and I have done it and regret it)

          we all need to stop.

          Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

          It isn't like everyone is picking on him Claire. People have made some very helpful comments, most of which he argued with. If you want us to stop beating a dead horse, it might help if you were to stop defending him, and pretending that the only problem was his choice of subject lines.

          I don't know from whence you came, but I am pretty sure I never started any threads complaining about how selfish Warriors are because they didn't jump at the chance to partner up with me. I don't see most Warriors doing that at any point; whether they joined yesterday or 10 years ago.

          I might well become friends with the guy; it isn't like any of us condemned him, but the op was striking in it's whiny tone, and most of his posts that followed were equally striking in their defensive tone. Just because he thinks you're a goddess doesn't mean you're obligated to keep beseeching us to give the guy a break. One contrite word from him would end all critical remarks. Why not beseech him to be open to constructive criticism rather than lecture us all on tolerence?
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          • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
            Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

            You usually don't do this greg. You know too that it has happened to you. Its like a bunch of kids beating the crap out of each other or drunks in a bar perhaps. We are all stooping to the wrong level when we gang up on someone. I'm not defending him as much as I think its immature and wrong,,,, it was painful when it happened years ago to me.

            In fact someone chased me out a paid club. It wasn't that person that lost the income it was the owner of the club.

            And thats my point. I don't care if it was one person doing it. Its stupid for warriors to get into it (and I have done it and regret it)

            we all need to stop.
            I am sorry for your bad experience, but I just don't agree that critical comments from more than one person constitute bullying, nor that "ganging up" is a fair charge, simply because the majority of comments are critical; sometimes (as now imo), that happens because there is merit to the criticisms. Don't forget that the criticism was in response to very pointed, and imo, unfair criticism of Warriors for not taking him up on his offer.

            Now don't think I'm a bully because I didn't give you the last word when you said "we should all stop". The fact is, you can only stop yourself, and it's rather heavy handed imo, to tell everyone they should too. If you want to end an argument, the best way is to stop; it rarely works to take a parting shot and then say "stop arguing".

            If we were doing something bad, of course we should stop, but we are only speaking our minds. I'm not calling the guy names. In my view what most of us did is give the guy valuable feedback that he hopefully will later reflect on when he is done arguing.

            It is beyond me why you don't see that he has kept upping the ante throughout, didn't even take the helpful comments about his site to heart, but just argued against those like all other points but yours. But he has indeed dug his heels in deep, and the fact that I'm not the only one who noticed, doesn't make us all bullies. It makes it likely that our perceptions might have some merit.

            If you don't see it that way, fine, but if you want us to stop, then stop. No hard feelings either way, but it is sad to me that both you and he are missing what is clear to the rest of us is going on.

            The sooner he stops being defensive and reflects on what is being said, the sooner he can get out of his own way and build constructive relationships rather than complain that nobody wants his deal. I think you believe you're helping him, but what I think you are actually doing is reinforcing very self defeating behavior, by acting like we're all just picking on him.

            We see things differently; so be it. But that doesn't make me a bully.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
    here's something stephanie mulnac sent about influence and persuasion that might be of help i am good at looking at this stuff and just getting my freebees good luck to you now become a senior warrior and whoop everybody's butt. lol FREE Impact Influence Video and PDF

    Its great you are fighting through but sometimes its just good to go smell some flowers. I took a breather from more forums then i care to remember. Ah life as a marketer. What fun *-) Make some money honey!
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  • Profile picture of the author H.Miller
    Just stick with it. The more doors you knock on the greater your chances that someone will say yes. So keep sending out emails and forming relationships with other internet marketers. Eventually someone will give you a shot. If not just go at it alone. Once you start making sales people will take notice. You have to change your attitude. No one is obligated to work with you or give you a chance. You however are obligated to prove that your product is as good as you say it is. And you can do that by getting sales on your own and showing JV partners that it would be worth their time to promote it.
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  • Profile picture of the author abbe77
    I still like the warrior forum despite lost $900 in 2 JV's (actually Deceived or Scam) and lots of time helping others (with no return). And finally I learnt, do it alone, put efforts, learn, learn, and learn. Don't depend upon others if you wanna achieve something in life.
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.

    Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


    Have a great day everyone,

    Eric
    Hey Eric,

    I understand your frustration and kudos to you for taking focused action.

    However you said:

    "wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me"

    Literally messaging people that do well with WSO launches may or may not get you a response, in this case it hasn't.

    However you also say:

    "NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF."

    Although I don't agree fully - the answer is to get a name for yourself.

    Build YOUR list and do the ground work, create an irresistible offer, see WHY the people you want to work with have a name for themselves and make them a better offer.

    When you are in a position where you don't need to JV as you have your own lists etc... and have high converting products you will find people come to you.

    Focus on your product, your service and make it better and focus on getting your own customers and building a list and then you can do a JOINT venture as oppose to someone just mailing out your offer.

    Good luck though mate, at least you are taking action - don't get disheartened!

    All the best,

    Chris Jones
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  • Profile picture of the author Invert Planet
    dude I changed fields almost 1 year ago. I went from aquatics to gaming. I am glad I made the change. I now stand in the top 1% in the world and am ready to go with IM. Having a product is all fine and dandy, having a relationship with your audience is difficult.

    Develop that relationship FIRST then deliver a product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    no one wants to work with you despite your efforts
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me
    You sell a product on your site that includes "My secret list of marketers I personally use to drive traffic to my offers for me."

    What happened to them and why won't they help you?
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    • Profile picture of the author EliteAffiliate
      I have JV'd with some great name people and no one knew who I was, they didn't know who I was. Many of them weren't interested cause the product wasn't right for them or the timing wasn't right as they were busy. Many didn't reply at all. Though all you need is the one who says yes and has time and is ready! It's all about numbers like anything, and the right timing, right approach and right product, right deal etc. In anything you'll always get lots of rejection before you get a yes. Don't just contact anyone though if you don't have a relationship with them or they're not actively looking for JV deals. I only ever contacted people who advertised in the JV section or who I was talking to about other stuff first and brought it up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert02011
    Why don`t you try clickbank or paydotcom
    Egnore the negitive comments and just do it!
    Signature

    I`am looking for an honest legal business that can make real money online.
    I found one ??????http://successxxx.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Romeo90
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me.
    Eric,

    In marketing, and in life, I say this:

    SWSWSWN

    That means:

    Some Will
    Some Won't
    So What
    Next

    Ok, so I stole that phrase from a British TV programme, but still, it makes sense.

    In other words, ask away, but don't get eaten up when you are rejected - just move onto the next. You are doing something right just by taking action - many don't even get that far.

    I heard something the other day (cannot for the life of me remember where I heard it).

    A very short story, but it when like this:

    A gorgeous blonde is standing at the bar.
    If you don't ask her out, she definitely won't be going out with you.

    Moral: Try, try, try. The law of averages says the blonde will say 'yes' one night.

    I emailed 55 possible JV partners last year, only 2 replied. I went with one, and we each shared 2 paydays totalling over £20,000 ($30k) in revenue.

    And that is all it takes.

    But what did I learn from this?

    Well,

    1. I kept a spreadsheet of every person I emailed for my own records.
    2. I re-emailed all of them - this time adding in that in 2 days, my last product brought in $30k
    3. Magically, 12 people responded
    4. I went with 2 out of those 12 (this time, I am the one in the position to reject), and this time the results were over $42k in revenue.
    5. Those I did reject, I crafted a polite email telling them why I was not in a position to work with them - on THIS occassion - but that I would be in touch with future products.

    So yes, in a way, you have to prove your worth. Just think how many of these emails the top marketers get - they will get a LOT.

    But it only needs one 'yes', and the potential is there for the floodgates to open.

    Keep going, and all the best.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Douglas
    Did you pitch your Idea in the same tone as this post? Sheesh they should have accepted your offer. I mean what's the world coming to.

    Quit whining.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    To the OP, you just keep making this worse and worse for yourself the way you keep going on and on, arguing with people, banging on about your child hood.

    Now I can't see why anyone who's seen this topic would want to work with you in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author davezan
    Probably nothing new with this article/video, but I thought I'd still share here:

    How to Sell Yourself (with no credentials, no connections, & no money)
    Signature

    David

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  • Profile picture of the author SuccessMarketer
    In my opinion, why don't you try and GIVE massive VALUE from the beginning... like offering 100% commissions to your JV partner and THEN go the extra mile and offer some epic customer support or anything that helps people FIRST... bear in mind that you still get to build a list, your most valuable asset.

    It may seem slow at first but if you start to build a list and start building YOU as a brand, people will want to do business with you... customers AND JV partners.

    Think about it: when people RECEIVE more than what they EXPECTED, they'll be back.

    Good Luck
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  • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
    Greg you got the wrong idea of what helping people is
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

      Greg you got the wrong idea of what helping people is
      Well I am sure that I don't have 100% of the right idea. But I'm equally sure that people have been trying to help Eric and he's vociferously rejected every attempt, which you have encouraged by chiming in about how everyone is bullying him just because he made one minor error; the poor choice of words for the thread title.

      For your version to be believed, one must ignore virtually all the content of his strikingly combative, defensive posts, as well as all the thoughtful attempts to get through his heavy defenses and help him. What about the comments on his site, which he simply argued with as well? Were those all just bullying in your mind too?

      If I, and the other "bullies" are right, an obvious possibility you seem as committed to not considering as he is, kind intentions though I think you have, you aren't doing him any favors by confirming his sense that we are all just hating on him, when nothing could be further from the truth.

      You think I have the wrong idea about helping. Think what you will; I think your approach is enabling; the exact wrong idea.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
        No I have a problem with people referring to name calling as constructive criticisim. And now he's grossly rude and disrespectful too.

        \\\\\\\ Disrespectful? ////

        Fine he merely stated that warrior's aren't living up to their name and all you guys who came against him can do is name call.

        when the truth is that this gentleman should have found the warriors to be the ones to help him learn the ropes that's how we toot ourselves as being. "The forum that gets people going".

        I'm an enabler or you all were offended by the truth?

        what ever

        i remember warriors helping people set up jv's???

        what has happened? I'm not discounting in any way those who helped. I never did discount them but if this thread was ONLY full of help he should not of needed to defend himself.

        he should be able to say what he said if it is what happpened.

        So shall we set up a giant jv giveaway together? And quit all this bickering and be WARRIORS? That is my proposal it woud be fun and productive for all of us and HE will see we're not a bunch of hot air and (name callers)


        Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

        Well I am sure that I don't have 100% of the right idea. But I'm equally sure that people have been trying to help Eric and he's vociferously rejected every attempt, which you have encouraged by chiming in about how everyone is bullying him just because he made one minor error; the poor choice of words for the thread title.

        For your version to be believed, one must ignore virtually all the content of his strikingly combative, defensive posts, as well as all the thoughtful attempts to get through his heavy defenses and help him. What about the comments on his site, which he simply argued with as well? Were those all just bullying in your mind too?

        If I, and the other "bullies" are right, an obvious possibility you seem as committed to not considering as he is, kind intentions though I think you have, you aren't doing him any favors by confirming his sense that we are all just hating on him, when nothing could be further from the truth.

        You think I have the wrong idea about helping. Think what you will; I think your approach is enabling; the exact wrong idea.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

          No I have a problem with people referring to name calling as constructive criticisim. And now he's grossly rude and disrespectful too.

          Disrespectful? ////

          Fine he merely stated that warrior's aren't living up to their name and all you guys who came against him can do is name call.

          when the truth is that this gentleman should have found the warriors to be the ones to help him learn the ropes that's how we toot ourselves as being. "The forum that gets people going".

          I'm an enabler or you all were offended by the truth?

          what ever

          i remember warriors helping people set up jv's???

          what has happened? I'm not discounting in any way those who helped. I never did discount them but if this thread was ONLY full of help he should not of needed to defend himself.

          he should be able to say what he said if it is what happpened.

          So shall we set up a giant jv giveaway together? And quit all this bickering and be WARRIORS? That is my proposal it woud be fun and productive for all of us and HE will see we're not a bunch of hot air and (name callers)


          If I wanted to date you, and my first contact to you was that you were not flirting back with me the way I wanted you to flirt, would that make you the jerk in the conversation or would it make me the jerk?

          My friends who will see this post will mutter to themselves, "Dammit Bill... Quit being a jerk and an idiot!!"

          LOL

          Sure, the forum has spawned multiple JV's, but most of those were spawned with newbies who offered excellent value to others and big-guns who actually liked the people who were looking for help.

          I personally have been involved in more than two dozen JV's, but let me remind you how it happened... We became friends, BEFORE we became JV partners!!
          Signature
          Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
          Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Well, let's see. We have Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, Jews, and Pastafarians. Democrats, Republicans, communists, socialists, libertarians, fascists, and the people who supported Michael Palin for President. Black hat, white hat, grey hat, and color-agnostic Stetson fans.

          Doesn't even matter if they drink Coke, Pepsi, or RC. They're all biased in the same way, at the same time, and for the same reasons. All some-hundred thousand of us.

          Titles often set the tone for a thread. Consider them carefully before posting.


          Paul
          Signature
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          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Well, let's see. We have Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, Jews, and Pastafarians. Democrats, Republicans, communists, socialists, libertarians, fascists, and the people who supported Michael Palin for President. Black hat, white hat, grey hat, and color-agnostic Stetson fans.

            Doesn't even matter if they drink Coke, Pepsi, or RC. They're all biased in the same way, at the same time, and for the same reasons. All some-hundred thousand of us.

            Titles often set the tone for a thread. Consider them carefully before posting.


            Paul

            You forgot rednecks. :p
            Signature
            Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
            Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Bill,
              You forgot rednecks.
              Piffle. I was simply adhering to the "No self-promotion" rules.


              Paul
              Signature
              .
              Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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          • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Well, let's see. We have Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, Jews, and Pastafarians. Democrats, Republicans, communists, socialists, libertarians, fascists, and the people who supported Michael Palin for President. Black hat, white hat, grey hat, and color-agnostic Stetson fans.

            ... snip

            Paul
            And those damn Canadians.
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            • Profile picture of the author Invert Planet
              Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

              And those damn Canadians.
              who likes them anyway?? Those silly beer drinkers
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              • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
                Originally Posted by Invert Planet View Post

                who likes them anyway?? Those silly beer drinkers
                HEY! I resemble that remark!
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                Resources, Tools and Strategies for Your Online Presence
                Website Design & Development - Document Management - Marketing Strategies - Personal Development
                CBI Web Services
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          I guess we just differ on what name calling is; to me it's calling someone an "ass", a "jerk", or some other insult; and 90% of it is intent; if someone points out a behavior they think needs to change, rather than simply insults the person, I don't consider that name calling, though it's no fun to hear.

          My intention was never against him, but if you think you know my intentions better than me, or believe I'm lying, so be it. I just think it would be better to assume good intentions and look for the positive, such as the 95% of Michelle's post you didn't mention, which was an amazingly generous, well thought out essay designed to help Eric. Hardly makes her seem like a bully hell bent on tearing him down to me.

          I, like others, simply responded honestly to what I thought, and still think was combative and defensive posting; not saying nor thinking he's a bad person, a jerk, or any other examples of name calling I can think of, which I don't think includes behavior descriptions such as defensive, combative, nor rude and disrespectful.

          You can disagree with the charges, but they are honest comments regarding nothing beyond Eric's behavior in this thread; he might well be a delightful dude that any of us "bullies" (how's that not name calling, if your standard includes "disrespectful"? not saying it is by my standards; I think you were describing behavior, whether I agree or not) would totally enjoy meeting.

          Yes I think you encouraged his negative behavior, but it's no crime, and I don't condemn (as he defensively charged), or hate him, as he also charged, for the behavior, nor you for defensive posts I think encouraged it; I just don't think defensiveness helps when you aren't reacting to enemies, but rather people who wish you the best; Michelle and I for example.

          If a bunch of people criticized me for a rant I made, I hope I wouldn't be so reactive as to consider them a "gang" of "bullies", "coming against me" with "name calling", rather than taking time to consider any possible grains of truth, and what I might do to generate a different response. Can you possibly believe ranting would be better for me?

          The best advice I have ever received, that I find an ongoing challenge to follow, and which I think would help anyone, difficult as it sometimes is, was to never take anything personally. So often, we react to others as if they were enemies, when they generally do have mostly positive intentions towards us (possibly mixed with annoyance or irritation; nobody is perfect). It doesn't help unless they are actually a threat; rarely the case; certainly not here.

          Chances are, when we react defensively, it is just because something triggered unfinished issues; hurts from the past that we all carry, and which take us out of the present moment, making it nearly impossible to respond in a way that serves us and others the best.

          If someone is behaving in a negative way (by calling "BS" on people who don't respond to their offer, rather than ask for help understanding why, or how to improve it, for example), I really don't know how anyone could critique their behavior in a way that you wouldn't consider name calling, if the behavior is "defensive", "combative", "disrespectful", or "rude". By definition, it seems any critique you encounter here is "name calling".

          If as you say, you are not discounting those who critiqued Eric's posts, what do you call the charge "all you guys...can do is name call"? Really; that is all you can find in any of the critical posts? Too bad you probably won't be willing to do what I think you should: look again with your mind open to positive aspects.

          Contrast that to your generous description of Eric's posts, which you boil down to "he merely stated that warrior's aren't living up to their name". So that is all you see? His intentions are apparently pure gold, just telling it like it is, (Warriors who failed to take his offer are "BS"; clearly a "mere" fact he was kind enough to point out) while us bullies simply ganged up, name called, and did nothing positive. Is that not a tiny bit "biased"; he's just here to tell the truth, while all his critics are here just to insult and tear him down, nothing more on either his or our parts?

          I sincerely wish the best for Eric, whether you believe it or not (and for you, and all of us) and I hope he comes back and forms strong friendships, benefits massively from the forum, and keeps building on his success.

          But the onus is definitely is not on the community to prove anything; the "BS" charge simply wasn't useful or fair. Many people have proved repeatedly in this thread that Warriors are as generous as ever, are willing to help anyone "little" or not.

          Nothing "happened" to the community; there will always be a bit of head bumping in a group this size where anyone can comment on any thread, but I remain amazed at the rock solid commitment to helping others which you can find in abundance if you aren't looking for evidence that we're a bunch of cold hearted, selfish bullies.

          Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

          No I have a problem with people referring to name calling as constructive criticisim. And now he's grossly rude and disrespectful too.

          \\\ Disrespectful? ////

          Fine he merely stated that warrior's aren't living up to their name and all you guys who came against him can do is name call.

          when the truth is that this gentleman should have found the warriors to be the ones to help him learn the ropes that's how we toot ourselves as being. "The forum that gets people going".

          I'm an enabler or you all were offended by the truth?

          what ever

          i remember warriors helping people set up jv's???

          what has happened? I'm not discounting in any way those who helped. I never did discount them but if this thread was ONLY full of help he should not of needed to defend himself.

          he should be able to say what he said if it is what happpened.

          So shall we set up a giant jv giveaway together? And quit all this bickering and be WARRIORS? That is my proposal it woud be fun and productive for all of us and HE will see we're not a bunch of hot air and (name callers)
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post


            The best advice I have ever received, that I find an ongoing challenge to follow, and which I think would help anyone, difficult as it sometimes is, was to never take anything personally. So often, we react to others as if they were enemies, when they generally do have mostly positive intentions towards us (possibly mixed with annoyance or irritation; nobody is perfect).
            Sage advice right there, Greg.

            Hey guys, I found a golden nugget in the WF again!

            Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
            during my college days I took a communication course. and learned there are ways to address people using the wrong terminology to try to get a point across and if you do it properly the person comes out of the defensive mode. I was not defending him as much as I was trying to tell some of the "responders" the way you are going about this isn't working.

            I do not think there would be any "heading bumping" in that case but nevertheless thanks to all the rock solid commited warriors who were here helping. It is pushing it a little to say every comment was done in that light greg.

            Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

            I guess we just differ on what name calling is; to me it's calling someone an "ass", a "jerk", or some other insult; and 90% of it is intent; if someone points out a behavior they think needs to change, rather than simply insults the person, I don't consider that name calling, though it's no fun to hear.

            My intention was never against him, but if you think you know my intentions better than me, or believe I'm lying, so be it. I just think it would be better to assume good intentions and look for the positive, such as the 95% of Michelle's post you didn't mention, which was an amazingly generous, well thought out essay designed to help Eric. Hardly makes her seem like a bully hell bent on tearing him down to me.

            I, like others, simply responded honestly to what I thought, and still think was combative and defensive posting; not saying nor thinking he's a bad person, a jerk, or any other examples of name calling I can think of, which I don't think includes behavior descriptions such as defensive, combative, nor rude and disrespectful.

            You can disagree with the charges, but they are honest comments regarding nothing beyond Eric's behavior in this thread; he might well be a delightful dude that any of us "bullies" (how's that not name calling, if your standard includes "disrespectful"? not saying it is by my standards; I think you were describing behavior, whether I agree or not) would totally enjoy meeting.

            Yes I think you encouraged his negative behavior, but it's no crime, and I don't condemn (as he defensively charged), or hate him, as he also charged, for the behavior, nor you for defensive posts I think encouraged it; I just don't think defensiveness helps when you aren't reacting to enemies, but rather people who wish you the best; Michelle and I for example.

            If a bunch of people criticized me for a rant I made, I hope I wouldn't be so reactive as to consider them a "gang" of "bullies", "coming against me" with "name calling", rather than taking time to consider any possible grains of truth, and what I might do to generate a different response. Can you possibly believe ranting would be better for me?

            The best advice I have ever received, that I find an ongoing challenge to follow, and which I think would help anyone, difficult as it sometimes is, was to never take anything personally. So often, we react to others as if they were enemies, when they generally do have mostly positive intentions towards us (possibly mixed with annoyance or irritation; nobody is perfect). It doesn't help unless they are actually a threat; rarely the case; certainly not here.

            Chances are, when we react defensively, it is just because something triggered unfinished issues; hurts from the past that we all carry, and which take us out of the present moment, making it nearly impossible to respond in a way that serves us and others the best.

            If someone is behaving in a negative way (by calling "BS" on people who don't respond to their offer, rather than ask for help understanding why, or how to improve it, for example), I really don't know how anyone could critique their behavior in a way that you wouldn't consider name calling, if the behavior is "defensive", "combative", "disrespectful", or "rude". By definition, it seems any critique you encounter here is "name calling".

            If as you say, you are not discounting those who critiqued Eric's posts, what do you call the charge "all you guys...can do is name call"? Really; that is all you can find in any of the critical posts? Too bad you probably won't be willing to do what I think you should: look again with your mind open to positive aspects.

            Contrast that to your generous description of Eric's posts, which you boil down to "he merely stated that warrior's aren't living up to their name". So that is all you see? His intentions are apparently pure gold, just telling it like it is, (Warriors who failed to take his offer are "BS"; clearly a "mere" fact he was kind enough to point out) while us bullies simply ganged up, name called, and did nothing positive. Is that not a tiny bit "biased"; he's just here to tell the truth, while all his critics are here just to insult and tear him down, nothing more on either his or our parts?

            I sincerely wish the best for Eric, whether you believe it or not (and for you, and all of us) and I hope he comes back and forms strong friendships, benefits massively from the forum, and keeps building on his success.

            But the onus is definitely is not on the community to prove anything; the "BS" charge simply wasn't useful or fair. Many people have proved repeatedly in this thread that Warriors are as generous as ever, are willing to help anyone "little" or not.

            Nothing "happened" to the community; there will always be a bit of head bumping in a group this size where anyone can comment on any thread, but I remain amazed at the rock solid commitment to helping others which you can find in abundance if you aren't looking for evidence that we're a bunch of cold hearted, selfish bullies.
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            • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
              Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post


              I do not think there would be any "heading bumping" in that case but nevertheless thanks to all the rock solid commited warriors who were here helping. It is pushing it a little to say every comment was done in that light greg.
              But it isn't pushing it a little to say that every critical commenter did nothing but "come against" the op and "name call", that there was absolutely nothing of value or showing any concern for the guy in any of our remarks?
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              • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
                IMHO (funny how u left out the most important part from this THERE'S A RIGHT WAY TO COMMUNICATE) there's no value if you are not wording your responses in such as way so that the person doesn't feel like they are being run down. Otherwise it makes no impact what good is that Greg?

                He couldn't get over the way he was being treated and that got responded to with more of the same. There was no progress being made. Just people insulting each other to me thats pointless unnecessary conversation.

                Thats why I said stop it wasn't me being authoritative (I'm sorry it was taken that way) I just don't see the point of having those type of conversations they lead NO WHERE.

                Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

                But it isn't pushing it a little to say that every critical commenter did nothing but "come against" the op and "name call", that there was absolutely nothing of value or showing any concern for the guy in any of our remarks?
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                • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
                  Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

                  IMHO (funny how u left out the most important part from this THERE'S A RIGHT WAY TO COMMUNICATE) there's no value if you are not wording your responses in such as way so that the person doesn't feel like they are being run down. Otherwise it makes no impact what good is that Greg?

                  He couldn't get over the way he was being treated and that got responded to with more of the same. There was no progress being made. Just people insulting each other to me thats pointless unnecessary conversation.
                  .
                  For one thing, nobody can predict the long term impact of the entire conversation. Very often when someone is taken to task for their behavior, the initial response is defensive. Sometimes, if the person is flexible enough, they later take it to heart and grow from it.

                  Some people say conflict is pointless; I say it is inevitable and a normal part of human relations. How each of us responds, what we take away from it, whether it plants a seed, is up to us. Growth rarely happens in total comfort, and often starts with great discomfort. Being challenged is rarely welcomed, but never being challenged is a recipe for a life of comfortable stagnation.

                  This post is another example of you placing the responsibility for Eric's feeling squarely outside of himself. It's also an example of the common mistake of confusing emotions with judgements and blame. There is no such emotion as "I am being run down"; that is a judgement which makes a victim of the person making it. Unless someone enjoys being a victim, they ought not to engage in that kind of confusion.

                  Nobody but Eric is responsible for his thoughts or his feelings. I hope he has re-evaluated the very disempowering ones such as "everyone hates me", and they are trying to "run me off".
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    • Profile picture of the author hometutor
      Originally Posted by goindeep View Post

      Boo f*cking hoo
      DUDE! Bad day at the office?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Before we start tearing into each other over the OP's comments, I suggest looking at the history of the OP, his WSOs and the comments he posted back then.

        In the end, any JV potential partner is going to look at the posting history of someone he doesn't know well. If the person requesting the JV is quick to anger, can't take constructive criticism, etc - no one will bite on the JV.

        It may not seem fair - he may call it biased - but that's how business works. You JV with those you like and trust and feel comfortable working with.

        That means you can't always fight to be right and put others down. It means you present a helpful, friendly attitude and be open to suggestions for improvement. It means you ask for advice in how to meet your goals rather than ranting that others won't do what you want.

        kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
        ha ha we some humor on this thread....
        Originally Posted by hometutor View Post

        DUDE! Bad day at the office?
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      • Profile picture of the author goindeep
        Originally Posted by hometutor View Post

        DUDE! Bad day at the office?
        Haha not at all! I just love making fun of grown people that act like babies, probably just a cultural thing. In Australia thats what we say to people when they have a big sook!
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  • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
    you guys keep forgetting its about "whats in it for me" much more then reputation. Even you may not check out a person if you like the product and the deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
    Normally, I wouldn't bother to reply to a thread like this because I think Eric is incredibly rude and disrespectful. His entitlement mentality and willingness to post negative things about others publicly is a HUGE turnoff. The lack of professionalism is astounding.

    However, I DO sympathize with his frustration and understand where it's coming from. We've all been there at one time or another I think.

    Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

    I'm asking you all to let this go please leave him alone. he just made a bad choice with his subject line. geeee wizzzz lets not forget from whense we came.
    No Claire. It's not about the title of the thread. It's what he said IN the thread (and the way he continues to behave here) that's the problem.

    You've gotten some excellent advice here Eric -- especially from Rod Cortez and Andrew Cavanaugh.

    I've studied JVs a lot too because I've felt the same frustration. However, I've also gotten some very good advice on the subject from very successful people whom I paid a lot of money to to mentor me.

    Aside from what Rod and Andrew have said:

    1. A lot of it is really just a numbers game. Improve your offer and keep approaching people. Eventually you'll find someone who will work with you. If you've approached a few dozen people and no one will work with you, THEN have someone you trust look at your offer to see how you can improve it.

    But a lot of the time, people will say "No" and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you. Yes, it might be the offer. But it also might be bad timing. Or it directly conflicts with their own product. Or maybe they already have a JV buddy with a similar product, etc....

    2. Make sure your offer is complementary, not competitive. It would be hard for ANYONE to justify promoting a directly competitive offer.

    3. Be professional. Your rant here, while understandable, displays a startling lack of professionalism. Anyone who comes across it will probably think twice before working with you. And if your attitude here is displayed in your communication with them, you won't get very far.

    4. Don't approach the biggest gurus right away. Start with those on your level or maybe just slightly above you and then work from there. You can all rise together in your respective industries.

    And of course, the standard "give before asking for help," "build a relationship" etc. advice here applies. People do business with people they know like and trust. So make it a priority to search out and build relationships with potential joint venture partners in your market.

    I think we all secretly dream of a JV partner who will come along and raise us to guru status -- or at least "slightly famous" status -- in one fell swoop. And it causes all kinds of angst, self-doubt, etc. when they reject us. We go into a tailspin of self-doubt and are far worse off (emotionally) and no further along.

    BUT, if you do as Rod Cortez said (test it at your own expense and build a list of buyers), then you can approach ANYONE with confidence. Because you KNOW your product is good and it converts. No one will be able to say "Boo" to you. Your confidence will be sky high.

    Best of all, you're not subjecting your self-confidence to others.

    So instead of letting potential JVs vote (and knocking your confidence down), let the buyers vote and build your confidence. (Be willing to test and tweak though!)

    As others have pointed out, we ALL start at the bottom. No one is exempt. Statistics and sheer logic alone tell you that your original statement isn't true.

    It was also tremendously helpful to me to hear multi-millionaires share how open they were to JVs, even from unknowns, if certain criteria were in place. Among the things they mentioned were:

    1. A good offer. (This has already been mentioned. A 50/50 split doesn't cut it here.)

    2. Possible commissions on ALL future purchases from the buyers they send you. (Not just a one-time split. This assumes you have other, PROVEN, products and services that convert.)

    One very successful marketer pointed out how unfair it was for HIM to get a one-time 50/50 split from a product HE was interviewed for and that was then sold to HIS list!

    Big-name gurus are approached all the time with banal "JV" offers like these. It's not hard to see why they're summarily rejected out of hand.

    3. Confidence (not arrogance) in your offer. My own mentor said it could be as simple as just someone with a good offer who was confident.

    She mentioned that nobody knows where the next big thing will come from. NOBODY. It's all a test and even the most successful people don't know where the next big thing will come from. So if they like you and trust you and you approach them with a good offer in a professional manner, they may very well take a chance on you. Because smart marketers know it's all a test anyway.

    Just remember though, that (assuming you have a good offer and are professional) often a "No" isn't "No" to you and usually has nothing to do with you at all. Yes, really.

    Business moves at the speed of light and successful business people have a lot going on at any given time. It's really not about you at all.

    Hearing this directly from the horse's mouths as it were, gave me a LOT more confidence and I no longer go into a tailspin when I'm "rejected."

    Hope that helps!

    Michelle
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  • Profile picture of the author Mrnace
    I'm a total newb and don't have clue about any of this stuff even though I tried to do stuff on my own with no help and failed.

    Then I joined this site. And have had nothing but help from the people on here and for free.

    It's just a case of adding as much value not only to the JV but to your clients and customers also.

    And take all this advice in from above and believe me, you'll be make a ton of money and will have all the help you'll need to get there.

    I know I need help and will appreciate the help when I get it and give back as much as I possibly can.
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  • Profile picture of the author DavidAtias1
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.

    Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


    Have a great day everyone,

    Eric
    Hi Eric,
    First of all, Warrior Forum is not a B.S!
    I think that JV's don't work with you because probably your product is not good enough as you think it is, and i'm really sorry to say it.
    And I think that JV's usually will love to work with newbies because they could take advantage of the situation.
    Anyway, here few tips for you:
    1) Ask warriors opinion about your product, your sales page, your landing page, etc.
    2) Try to offer better deal to JV, like 25% / 75% .
    3) Try to build yourself a name, you said it yourself - give value to warriors, try help people.

    Best of luck,
    David
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Wow! What a read!

      Okay, after reading through all of this, what I see is someone new on campus who doesn't understand the nuances that go on every day throughout the place and some coming to "help him see the error of his ways".

      Still not understanding the unwritten rules, he tries to vindicate himself because he truly does want to be a part of the campus. But again he doesn't understand, doesn't get the message partly due to feeling as if he is being attacked and has his rankles up and maybe his undies up in a bunch.

      Meanwhile, others come along and recognize this and try to help him but possibly out of a soft heart take it too far because they too were met with some resistance that they weren't expecting.

      What we have here is a sort of hazing going on and true to life when hazings go on, many time the hazers themselves disagree on hazing methods and trouble can start with bad outcomes.

      From this point on, can't we just consider that the new guy has received his Warrior spanking initiation and hope he takes heed to the best explanation of all that he got which was from Paul?

      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Well, let's see. We have Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, Jews, and Pastafarians. Democrats, Republicans, communists, socialists, libertarians, fascists, and the people who supported Michael Palin for President. Black hat, white hat, grey hat, and color-agnostic Stetson fans.

      Doesn't even matter if they drink Coke, Pepsi, or RC. They're all biased in the same way, at the same time, and for the same reasons. All some-hundred thousand of us.

      Titles often set the tone for a thread. Consider them carefully before posting.



      Paul
      And to the new guy, please heed Paul's admonition, he really knows what he is talking about.

      Your less than warm welcome here can be over if you will only recognize it for what it really is, learn from it and move on. By the way, I want to add that I wish you both luck and success in all that you do including learning lessons along the way.

      We all went through some sort of initiation rite one way or another when we first joined.

      Welcome to the campus.

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Wow! What a read!

        Okay, after reading through all of this, what I see is someone new on campus ...
        When I first read his post I also thought he was new, until I looked at his stats. He joined in April 2010, and had 250+ posts under his belt when he started this thread.

        Is that considered new around here?

        Your post was good, btw, but was curious about the "new" part.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Joel Young View Post

          When I first read his post I also thought he was new, until I looked at his stats. He joined in April 2010, and had 250+ posts under his belt when he started this thread.

          Is that considered new around here?

          Your post was good, btw, but was curious about the "new" part.

          Some people are slow learners and as long as they haven't caught on yet, they are still novices and therefore considered new...by me anyway. :p

          Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Wow! What a read!

        Okay, after reading through all of this,
        Why would anyone bother? LOL
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

          Why would anyone bother? LOL
          I didn't want anyone to come along and say something about posting in a thread before reading the whole thing. :p

          Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    All the op does is beak back at the advice he's given.

    Try listening instead of taking every piece of advice as criticism toward you. You are getting good advice. Listen and put down your keyboard and let it sink in..
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  • Profile picture of the author Rmipro
    This is just my point of view Eric and I commend you for having the heart to charge on and NOT QUIT!

    However, in not quitting it is also important for you to understand that your ultimate success will not be determined by 1 person or even a hand full of people.

    If it's affiliates you're after then there's other ways of going about it, (if you have an attractive/valuable product), that can accomplish the same goal you are after. Don't be afraid to get creative and try other avenues.

    However, if this is the method you are set on using...Well, 1) Consider the product and seek the opinions of others on the product as well.

    2) Even if someone told you no...you would be helping yourself to find out why. So ask them why and they may or may not give you a very direct answer and you will instantly know what the problem is and you are that much closer to getting the "Yes" you desire.

    3) Study the subject more and this alone may help you discover where it is you may be off...but this may take a little longer than just presenting your offer to a few people and then if they say no just asking them upfront why they wouldn't promote it (b/c this would greatly help you moving forward).

    If they are unwilling to even provide you an answer to that...then screw'm. They are probably not the kind of person you would want backing your product anyway.

    Remember, all it takes is 1!

    And research any great product creator or inventor, athlete (anyone great for that matter) in history and you will see that initial rejection and resistance is just the name of the game.

    Perseverance wins the day!

    Be Blessed
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Everyone says take action and you will see results. Well I've been taking action and have seen some results, but when you try to take things to the next level no one wants to work with you despite your efforts.

    Case Point- I have a great product and wanted an experienced warrior in wso launches to JV with me(He does the marketing and I present the product) But despite everyone I contact I get no response, Or they don't want to work with me. I mean come on I'm offering a 50/50 deal.

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.

    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Trust me this day will come for me despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.


    Have a great day everyone,

    Eric
    There seems to be one rule in marketing that cannot be broken...

    Most won't, but some will.

    Probably applies with looking for JV partners too.
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  • Profile picture of the author owais211
    Banned
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

    Despite what everyone says no matter how hard you try to

    put yourself out there, NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR

    YOURSELF.
    No one started with a name at first
    And why force someone to help you with? Start to help yourself first, you will get
    easily noticed if you'll prove something by your own.
    We can't blame others for our own mistakes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
    hazing is the best description I've heard so far but believe me i knew very well what was happening I've seen plenty of hazings. Not personal on my end. I just believe in the truth you call people names etc and run them off the forum and then all of the sudden its all their fault.

    Warrior's also help people regain their reputation. This is not an example of that either. You guys are warriors and warriors don't do this.

    PERIOD. Nothing personal thats the way it is. Greg you got caught up in the heat of a hazing and are still trying to justify your actions.

    What mature warriors do when faced with words of disappointment is come on board to disprove his accusations and overlook.

    We could of showed him how to do it like Warriors of the past have done. Pull yourself together cry baby is belittling someone.

    CNN hero's is a good example of the warrior forum I know and love. Not the usual here's another newbie lets some of us hit him with clubs ready? Please don't mistake passion over something I care about as taking it personal.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

      hazing is the best description I've heard so far but believe me i knew very well what was happening I've seen plenty of hazings. Not personal on my end. I just believe in the truth you call people names etc and run them off the forum and then all of the sudden its all their fault.

      Warrior's also help people regain their reputation. This is not an example of that either. You guys are warriors and warriors don't do this.

      PERIOD. Nothing personal thats the way it is.

      We could of showed him how to do it like Warriors of the past have done.

      It seems that you are trying to push onto others traits that they may or may not possess.

      If there was a FAQ on this website that said I was "responsible for the success of other warriors", then I must have missed the memo.

      I offer help to others when I can, but I am not responsible for anyone's success but my own.

      If I choose to offer help to the OP that is my prerogative to do, and if I choose not to help, there is nothing in my Warrior Forum membership contract that says I must give help to those who I don't want to help.



      Do you remember the old adage? "You will catch more flies with honey than vinegar."

      I think it deserves mention in this thread.

      The OP wants to catch a guru to help him in his business, but the approach he has used won't even catch flies. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Claire -

        I was not defending him as much as I was trying to tell some of the "responders" the way you are going about this isn't working.
        If you want help you have to have an open attitude. If you make a mistake here and own up to it - people will help you. The elephant in the thread is his previous WSO. It might have been a newbie mistake - but his response was to fight back, send threatening PMs and rationalize a paid review.

        He's not a victim of bullies - but of his own history.

        Had this thread been one of asking for help because "I made mistakes in the past and want to do it right" the responses would have been quite different.

        When you start a thread, you set the tone. In this case, the tone was negative:

        no one wants to work with you ...
        NO ONE WILL WORK WITH YOU IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NAME FOR YOURSELF....
        This is BS,...
        despite everyone on here that is bias and selfish and don't want to help the little guy so to speak.
        Meanwhile, the OP seems to have abandoned the fray....which is probably a good idea.

        kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
        Its the forums reputation I was referring to. i too doubt its written anywhere. I like it tho and wish to keep it that way. I hope you do too.It doesn't take a lot of skills to help someone ( and not just give lip service ) or even be careful or creative in our communication.

        or is it this...

        look he did all this stuff he has to live with it its the principle of the thing. I just like the above better.

        I do think the warrior forum isn't any old forum we ARE Different and better.




        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        It seems that you are trying to push onto others traits that they may or may not possess.

        If there was a FAQ on this website that said I was "responsible for the success of other warriors", then I must have missed the memo.

        I offer help to others when I can, but I am not responsible for anyone's success but my own.

        If I choose to offer help to the OP that is my prerogative to do, and if I choose not to help, there is nothing in my Warrior Forum membership contract that says I must give help to those who I don't want to help.



        Do you remember the old adage? "You will catch more flies with honey than vinegar."

        I think it deserves mention in this thread.

        The OP wants to catch a guru to help him in his business, but the approach he has used won't even catch flies. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

      I just believe in the truth you call people names etc and run them off the forum and then all of the sudden its all their fault.

      Warrior's also help people regain their reputation. This is not an example of that either. You guys are warriors and warriors don't do this.

      PERIOD. Nothing personal thats the way it is. Greg you got caught up in the heat of a hazing and are still trying to justify your actions.

      What mature warriors do when faced with words of disappointment is come on board to disprove his accusations and overlook.

      We could of showed him how to do it like Warriors of the past have done. Pull yourself together cry baby is belittling someone.
      Finally, a statement of yours in this thread that I can agree with!

      I did read every comment, or so I thought. I must have missed "pull yourself together cry baby", which I agree is name calling and belittling. That's a shame, and I hope that person removes it.

      Criticism is generally hard for most people to hear. However, if Eric had said something like, "Okay people, you've made your point, but I don't think I can take any more negative comments", or if he'd backed off a bit on the unfair statements he made about Warriors being unwilling to help the little guy, "this is BS", etc, it would have gone a long way toward moving an argument into a more productive, relationship building exchange.

      Sadly, he instead added to the negative tone he originally set (it is his thread), by more defensive remarks, claiming Warriors look down on newbies once they have some steady income, that we (or perhaps just me; not sure exactly what he meant) are just being "tough" from the safety of our computer screens and wouldn't be able to face his NAVY, violence surviving self in person, won't be able to "run me off", as if that was our intent, that "everyone hates me" etc. It's too bad it went that way, but beyond me how you're able to blame everyone else, and not admit that he bears any of the responsible for it, that he might have been even a wee bit defensive other than a poor choice of thread title.

      After all the accusations of "name calling", you finally provided one example of it that I agree with. You accuse me not only of being one of the "name callers" who "came against him", but in being one of them, of doing nothing but name call.

      But the only things I can recall saying that you might be talking about, is that Eric was defensive and combative. You have accused, but you haven't clarified, in spite of several opportunities. When I brought up the two words "defensive", and "combative" to disagree they constitute name calling, but rather are "behavior calling" if that is a "thing", you repeated the charge, but did not address the words you base it on.

      It's rather conspicuous given the many repetitions of your accusations, that you have not addressed my rebuttal of the charge, either by reminding me of other words I said that you consider "names", nor by confirming that the words "defensive" and "combative" are actually the specifics you had in mind.

      If you're going to call me out for getting "caught up" in "hazing", no problem. I'm a big boy, willing to listen if you ever get around to making the case, and if you convince me, showing some contrition. But if your idea of making the case is to keep repeating "name calling" without once mentioning the names I supposedly called which justify the charge, I'm going to remain unconvinced.

      As far as our obligation to help people regain their reputation, I don't agree that we have one. I think what we do have is Warriors that are willing to let bygones be bygones, and that is all that anyone needs to rebuild a rep, but we are each responsible for building or rebuilding our own; all we need is open minds around us. I think this is a pretty open minded and friendly community which makes that pretty easy to do.

      I for one, and I believe most of the others who criticized the op, would be delighted if Eric came back to the thread ready to engage with everyone in a more calm and constructive manner.

      If he wants to leave the forum, it's a shame, but that is his choice, and we're all responsible for our own choices. Unless I missed something else, I don't think anyone expressed a wish for him to leave.

      To me, his defiant remark to me that we can't "run me off", was one example of upping the ante by attributing a negative intention to me and possibly others, which I never said nor intended. But since he projected it, I explicitly stated that I do not want him to leave, and that I would be happy to make friends with him.

      You recall right(?), the comment that you quoted, where I made explicit that I'd be delighted to meet him, am happy for his success, etc, and then you totally confused me by stating in all caps that I was OBNOXIOUS", because I guess telling someone you wish them well is another example of name calling.

      In case it needs saying once more: Eric, if you see this, I hold no ill will toward you, never wanted you gone, and still don't. I don't know if you're checking in, but if you are, and thinking of leaving, I hope you stick around instead.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
        I didn't call you obnoxious greg, I was referring to this crazy thing that just started where people respond to a forum thread by saying....

        THIS.......

        I think that is so rude. I did not mean for you or anyone to think I was calling you a name that would be kind of counter productive lol.

        He said the comment You "Can't Run Me off" because that is how he felt and that is what i have been trying to point out. Can anybody own the fact that something caused that? There are various forms of the word "WHINE" in various comments. Its a name for a complainer or word used for describing a cry baby YES?

        The thread is telling him you did it yourself, fix it yourself. Be nice to help instead that's all. I understand that many have chosen to enable him a different way. But that is not what he is asking for in the first place. He wanted our participation and we do do that sort of thing a lot of time.

        Does he really not deserve it due to his errors? Wow.

        Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

        Finally, a statement of yours in this thread that I can agree with!

        I did read every comment, or so I thought. I must have missed "pull yourself together cry baby", which I agree is name calling and belittling. That's a shame, and I hope that person removes it.

        Criticism is generally hard for most people to hear. However, if Eric had said something like, "Okay people, you've made your point, but I don't think I can take any more negative comments", or if he'd backed off a bit on the unfair statements he made about Warriors being unwilling to help the little guy, "this is BS", etc, it would have gone a long way toward moving an argument into a more productive, relationship building exchange.

        Sadly, he instead added to the negative tone he originally set (it is his thread), by more defensive remarks, claiming Warriors look down on newbies once they have some steady income, that we (or perhaps just me; not sure exactly what he meant) are just being "tough" from the safety of our computer screens and wouldn't be able to face his NAVY, violence surviving self in person, won't be able to "run me off", as if that was our intent, that "everyone hates me" etc. It's too bad it went that way, but beyond me how you're able to blame everyone else, and not admit that he bears any of the responsible for it, that he might have been even a wee bit defensive other than a poor choice of thread title.

        After all the accusations of "name calling", you finally provided one example of it that I agree with. You accuse me not only of being one of the "name callers" who "came against him", but in being one of them, of doing nothing but name call.

        But the only things I can recall saying that you might be talking about, is that Eric was defensive and combative. You have accused, but you haven't clarified, in spite of several opportunities. When I brought up the two words "defensive", and "combative" to disagree they constitute name calling, but rather are "behavior calling" if that is a "thing", you repeated the charge, but did not address the words you base it on.

        It's rather conspicuous given the many repetitions of your accusations, that you have not addressed my rebuttal of the charge, either by reminding me of other words I said that you consider "names", nor by confirming that the words "defensive" and "combative" are actually the specifics you had in mind.

        If you're going to call me out for getting "caught up" in "hazing", no problem. I'm a big boy, willing to listen if you ever get around to making the case, and if you convince me, showing some contrition. But if your idea of making the case is to keep repeating "name calling" without once mentioning the names I supposedly called which justify the charge, I'm going to remain unconvinced.

        As far as our obligation to help people regain their reputation, I don't agree that we have one. I think what we do have is Warriors that are willing to let bygones be bygones, and that is all that anyone needs to rebuild a rep, but we are each responsible for building or rebuilding our own; all we need is open minds around us. I think this is a pretty open minded and friendly community which makes that pretty easy to do.

        I for one, and I believe most of the others who criticized the op, would be delighted if Eric came back to the thread ready to engage with everyone in a more calm and constructive manner.

        If he wants to leave the forum, it's a shame, but that is his choice, and we're all responsible for our own choices. Unless I missed something else, I don't think anyone expressed a wish for him to leave.

        To me, his defiant remark to me that we can't "run me off", was one example of upping the ante by attributing a negative intention to me and possibly others, which I never said nor intended. But since he projected it, I explicitly stated that I do not want him to leave, and that I would be happy to make friends with him.

        You recall right(?), the comment that you quoted, where I made explicit that I'd be delighted to meet him, am happy for his success, etc, and then you totally confused me by stating in all caps that I was OBNOXIOUS", because I guess telling someone you wish them well is another example of name calling.

        In case it needs saying once more: Eric, if you see this, I hold no ill will toward you, never wanted you gone, and still don't. I don't know if you're checking in, but if you are, and thinking of leaving, I hope you stick around instead.
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

          I didn't call you obnoxious greg, I was referring to this crazy thing that just started where people respond to a forum thread by saying....

          THIS.......

          I think that is so rude. I did not mean for you or anyone to think I was calling you a name that would be kind of counter productive lol.

          He said the comment You "Can't Run Me off" because that is how he felt and that is what i have been trying to point out. Can anybody own the fact that something caused that? There are various forms of the word "WHINE" in various comments. Its a name for a complainer or word used for describing a cry baby YES?

          The thread is telling him you did it yourself, fix it yourself. Be nice to help instead that's all. I understand that many have chosen to enable him a different way. But that is not what he is asking for in the first place. He wanted our participation and we do do that sort of thing a lot of time.

          Does he really not deserve it due to his errors? Wow.
          There are multiple ways to interpret anything, so it's cool if you and I have different interpretations. I can see how it made you feel like there was a pile on when people accused him of whining, so I hope you don't take my disagreement as a sign I am not willing to listen to you; I hear you, but I see it differently, in spite of how passionate you are. We all wish people would see things like we do, and it's just one of those things in life that never will be perfect, but I am paying attention to you; just not agreeing.

          Sometimes when many people give the same criticism of your behavior, it is because the criticism is accurate; I would even venture to say it's likely to be the case most of the time. Not always; the group can be wrong and the individual right, but I obviously happen to think this time they/we weren't.

          One of the ways we grow is to notice the feedback we get repeatedly from others, and take it as valuable information from which to re-evaluate our actions. If every time you get the same criticism multiple times, you go into battle mode, and assume everyone hates you, or is ganging up, then you're just missing an opportunity to grow; no skin off the group's nose; just you cheating yourself.

          Virtually everyone whines and complains now and then, so it shouldn't be taken like we accused Eric of being a bad person, by calling his behavior whining. Is whining not a true description of some behavior? If it is, can you not refer to it without being accused of name calling? Behavior can be corrected, and the person being called on theirs, isn't stuck with a label, although if they go into a defensive mode, they are much more likely to be viewed that way for a longer time, once they ever do correct it. It's a wise person that takes critiques of their behavior, however difficult to hear, and considers their merit before reacting.

          One of our core disagreements throughout, I believe, stems from different beliefs about group dynamics and personal responsibility for one's feelings. I happen to believe we are each responsible for how we feel, and find that infinitely more empowering than blaming or crediting others for my feelings. Statements like "you made me feel...however [good or bad]" are in my opinion, a common cop-out, and when you lay the responsibility for how Eric feels on the rest of us, that is where you and I part company.

          When you ask "can anyone own that something caused that" of his defensive feeling when he remarked "you can't run me off", obviously you're implying that the group caused him to be defensive. I know it frustrates you, and I wish I could change that without conceding something I do not believe, but my perspective is totally different.

          Yes indeed I can "own that something caused that", but I do not own being the cause of his feelings. People who feel defensive generally do so because they believe, as you do, that the cause of our feelings lies with the unfair people who have wronged us. You said I got caught up in the hazing, but my perspective says you got caught up in the defensive posturing. I resonated to the truth (as I see it), in the charges that the op was a whiny post. You resonated to Eric's defensive reaction to the charge.

          The thread isn't telling him to fix it himself because the thread is mean and unwilling to help a guy. It's telling him that, because the problem with the thread started with his hostile attitude, and he is the only person who possibly can fix that. I wish I could fix it, and I don't know if you've noticed, since you haven't conceded anything, but I have repeatedly made explicit that I have good wishes toward him, do not "hate" him, never wanted to "run him off", etc. That is the best I can do.

          If you want me to say "I am sorry Eric, I got caught up in bullying you, and should never said you were whining", sorry, but I'm not going to lie; it isn't how I see it.

          I will repeat one more time; I'm delighted by his success, hope he sticks around, has a lot more of it, and builds productive, friendly relationships with other Warriors. The rest is up to him, whose roll in the tone of his own thread, or even in his own feelings, you have yet to acknowledge, other than he told it like it is, other than a poor choice of thread titles.
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

          I didn't call you obnoxious greg, I was referring to this crazy thing that just started where people respond to a forum thread by saying....

          THIS.......

          I think that is so rude. I did not mean for you or anyone to think I was calling you a name that would be kind of counter productive lol.
          Okay, I have no problem with it, because even though I thought you were calling me obnoxious, I had no idea why, and chose not to take it personally, or feel terrible about it; a choice we all have, all the time, regardless what anyone says to us.

          I am still confused as to why it was relevant to quote my post, but no matter.
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

          There are various forms of the word "WHINE" in various comments. Its a name for a complainer or word used for describing a cry baby YES?
          Sorry for responding twice to the same post, but I forgot something I wanted to mention, and it seems clearer to do it this way.

          I really think you need more clarity about the difference between calling out bad behavior, and name calling.

          For every behavior, you can probably think of a noun that could describe someone that exhibits it. Does that mean you are going to call every criticism of someone's behavior name calling?

          Whining is a real thing people do. If they want to get all hurt when someone calls them on it, they can interpret it your way. If they want to grow, they have the choice to look at it differently. Even if the person was called a name "whiner" rather than "you were whining", they can choose to think "the a**hole called me a name", or they can choose to think "why am I being called a whiner; was I actually whining?"

          Always looking for the hurt and the meanness, rather than the lesson is just a flat out defensive stance which, like chronically staying in an angry state against whoever does you think wronged you, hurts the person looking for the hurt, not those s/he blames. That is why forgiveness is so important even if someone really did a horrible thing to you; hanging onto judgements and hurt feelings hurts you more than it does the other person.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post


    This is BS, everyone had to start off unknown in the IM field. But guess what, when I do keep pushing and I have a LARGE HIGH converting list and everyone wants to JV, I might just turn the other cheek.

    Eric
    Then again, in the time you wrote this post, you could have been doing exactly that, and added an extra $1700+ or so to your bank account in july 2013.

    So what is the motto?

    Branding helps, but people these days want to know one thing.

    1) you understand their problems.

    2) You will bend over backwards to help.

    Doing this has been making money for us, no matter what you think or have been told. Your marketing experience is good by the sounds of it, but you have much to learn. That will come in time, with more experience and testing.

    Keep pushing even harder than you have been. Look for better JV's to do.

    you need to learn more in here about leveraging and finding and contacting better JV partners. I would rather do a deal with one BIG HIGH QUALITY JV, then do 100 smaller ones. I am serious.

    You say you have a great product, but I doubt that. When we have created kick ass products, I mean kick ass, people hunt us down to do JV's so go out and create better products.

    You seem to be in the beginning stages of the snowball effect, when it starts moving you cannot stop it. So keep it moving now, and you will do well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
    When i 1st read the title, i thought it was against WF as in the admins.

    Like they deleted your post or something.
    Then i saw so many replies and views, surely it would be deleted by now.
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    Pain is a perception, so is defeat & happiness!
    & what doesn't
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  • Profile picture of the author Kadus
    Eric this is just a small hurdle in your journey.

    Take a different approach and look at things from a different perspective.

    People will work with you if your product is good! You don't need a name for yourself.

    Stick with it buddy and success will come your way.

    Kadus
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  • Profile picture of the author gonzotrucker
    Almost everyone on here has been so helpful to me. Only a few have bashed me.
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  • Profile picture of the author tsteffen
    There is nothing you can't do on your own, just may take a little longer and more effort. If you need advice, I suggest join a facebook group for JV, there are plenty out there, your just looking in the wrong place.
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  • Profile picture of the author SuccessMarketer
    Reading all the posts here I can only really say one thing: Take Responsability
    You either make things happen or let it happen.

    The reality is that by posting this type of thread, you are "building" your brand the wrong way from the very beginning so who would want to work with someone who's reputation is built on blaming others for your lack of success?

    Build your success story and you will naturally attract those partners that can take your business to the next level. fact.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Your inability to see the facts,

      Your eagerness to justify yourself instead of objectively review the constructive input,

      Your defensive posture,

      Makes you ill-suited as a business partner.

      You are not ready.

      Joe Mobley
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      Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        For those of you that are ready, there is a gold mine of information here.

        Unfortunately, there is a fair amount of culling to do.

        Joe Mobley



        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Your inability to see the facts,

        Your eagerness to justify yourself instead of objectively review the constructive input,

        Your defensive posture,

        Makes you ill-suited as a business partner.

        You are not ready.

        Joe Mobley
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      • Profile picture of the author createyouwealth
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Your inability to see the facts,

        Your eagerness to justify yourself instead of objectively review the constructive input,

        Your defensive posture,

        Makes you ill-suited as a business partner.

        You are not ready.

        Joe Mobley
        I guess all the thanks I gave people for their valuable input was nothing short of a slap in the face huh? Just saying, I have thanked the one's that did give valuable input and have also stated that in my responses.
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

          I guess all the thanks I gave people for their valuable input was nothing short of a slap in the face huh? Just saying, I have thanked the one's that did give valuable input and have also stated that in my responses.
          I don't know if you'll believe this or not, but I'm glad you didn't leave. I hope you take whatever you find helpful, adjust your approach as many times as needed, and eventually get that JV you were looking for.
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        • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

          Your inability to see the facts,

          Your eagerness to justify yourself instead of objectively review the constructive input,

          Your defensive posture,

          Makes you ill-suited as a business partner.


          You are not ready.

          Joe Mobley
          Originally Posted by createyouwealth View Post

          I guess all the thanks I gave people for their valuable input was nothing short of a slap in the face huh? Just saying, I have thanked the one's that did give valuable input and have also stated that in my responses.


          Giving a thanks doesn't really change ones opinion! This thread derailed because you are misinterpreting most of the responses, Joe Mobley simply stated that being combative lessons your chance of being a suitable partner.

          The fact that you gave many thanks won't change that. What I would do is go to your OP and remove everything and edit it to say "thank you for all the valuable feedback", then go to all of your replies and edit those to say something like "thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts", but make each reply different, you wouldn't want future readers to see a generic reply to all of the posts.

          Don't look at it as you guys all won and I'm conceding, but rather, cleaning up collateral damage from a public relations stand point.

          I would not respond further and let this thread die off and eventually it will be most likely forgotten, time heals all wounds.
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    1) Everyone thinks there product is awesome. Yours might or might not be, who knows.

    2) a 50/50 deal is NOT that sweet. Heck I pay my affiliates 70% and I give them banners, links and swipe copy. Literally all they have to do is paste in, sign there name and press send to there list. But you want to do only a 50% with someone who has to do all the marketing work?

    Im going to tell you a little secrete. I make all my own products and I sell software so Im not just typing an eBook (though there is nothing wrong with eBooks) and I can say 100% for sure that the 'real work' is in the marketing. You need to give a LOT better than 50% for someone to do the marketing work for you OR you need to give some cash up front or you need to convince them that your product is a mind blowing super awesome everyone needs it because we will die without it product!

    3) You need to understand that people doing marketing are doing YOU a favor. Now this might not make sense to you because your thinking that your giving them a nice cut of your income on a product you created but you have to understand #2 its a LOT more easy to make a product than to market one. As such there a lot more great products than there are people who know how to effectively get them out there. People who know what there doing literally can pick and choose from tons of great products every week. If they choose yours they did you a favor because you wouldnt get any sales without them, if they dont choose yours they loose nothing because they can choose any of a dozen other great products from the scores of other people propositioning them.

    PS) I didnt read the entire thread so sorry is other people have said this before.
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