Guess What!-----Internet Marketing May not be for you !

by Sean A McAlister 55 replies
Are you someone who has been constantly struggling
to get something going online?

Have you been spinning in circles for months or even years?

Internet Marketing may not be for you.


Internet Marketing is simply Marketing on the internet
in the basic sense and Marketing takes skill, learned knowledge
and a personality that fits with it.

If you are not good with people you may not be good
at networking and Internet Marketing.

Just some food for thought!

Sean
#main internet marketing discussion forum #guess #marketing #whatinternet
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  • Profile picture of the author SandyHall
    Hi Sean,

    There's another thing that I think sinks alot of people
    trying to make a living on the internet.

    No, make that two things.

    They are:
    1. laziness
    2. procrastination

    Unfortunately, these two things are a part of a great many people.

    Why do you think that statistically, 95% of all people starting a business
    offline and online fail to make any money.

    It's a shame really. Because there are a great many very talented
    and inspirational people who we could learn a lot from if it weren't
    for the two factors above.

    Here's to an end to procrastination,
    Sandy
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Buckley
      Now wait a minute, Sandy. If I didn't procrastinate I'd be just PLAIN lazy instead of one cut ABOVE lazy
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    • Profile picture of the author giveusallfreedom
      LMAO

      Wow did you get up this morning and ask yourself... "How can I ruin somebody's day?"

      You could have thrown in a little caveat like... "Some other things you might want to try are..."

      I mean you're right and all, but a lot of what we call internet marketing is actually internet entreprenuership. You don't have to be a marketer to make money online. That being said what Sandy said is so true. More people fail from lack of initiative than an inability to do what needs to be done.
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    • Profile picture of the author Carl Henry
      Hi,

      I could probably write all night outlining the various reasons people don't get the necessary 'traction' but I would focus on the reasons why people are attracted to internet marketing.

      A large proportion are looking for a way to solve immediate financial problems, unfortunately IM is portrayed as an easy "quick fix" by seasoned marketeers.

      It's a business like any other and there's lots of way to make money, but people are convinced to enter an area which is highly populated (lots of competition) rather than an area in which they already excel & can translate/transfer to the internet.

      My Recommendation > Use the internet tools to do something you are already VERY good at.

      Regards,

      Carl Henry
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Whaddaya mean, may not be for me?

        Yuh mean I've been waistin all this time makin gobs of money when I coulda
        been out there partyin it up?

        Sh*t...who wants to buy my business?
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        • Profile picture of the author giveusallfreedom
          Whoa... Steve I call dibs. I'll give you $5. No wait $5.50. That's enough to buy a beer right? Start partying. First beers on me. ;D
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by giveusallfreedom View Post

            Whoa... Steve I call dibs. I'll give you $5. No wait $5.50. That's enough to buy a beer right? Start partying. First beers on me. ;D
            $5 won't even get you my smallest list.

            Afraid you'll have to do better than that.
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        • Profile picture of the author rperales
          Personally...

          ..people that fail in this here net comes from people saying the same thing
          over and over again that makes me want to puke!

          How in the heck are people going to learn if we keep feeding them the same
          thing again and again..

          Being Lazy, do not work hard, etc..same crap I've been hearing since I
          started and that was 50 years ago..

          If that was the case, where would this world be?..

          People thing and being fed about whatever when in reality most folks
          would be a lot better off treating a net business as a job..

          Well, don't they already have a pattern working for a living?..

          So, why not?..why don't they build a business by going to work in the
          morning or if it's partime pretending going to work like in the morning..

          Don't they get paid when working?..all they have to do when working a
          business is change the company to their business and get paid in a certain
          day by whatever processor they choose..

          Just thing..they already have the mindset..that a business can take for
          some folks a lifetime..and all they need is a little change and to make it
          believable..

          Working hard is mandatory..

          rey

          P.S. Sometimes I wonder who is lazy..the non-creative that repeats what
          everybody is saying or..
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    • Profile picture of the author WinsonYeung
      Originally Posted by SandyHall View Post

      Hi Sean,

      There's another thing that I think sinks alot of people
      trying to make a living on the internet.

      No, make that two things.

      They are:
      1. laziness
      2. procrastination

      Unfortunately, these two things are a part of a great many people.

      Why do you think that statistically, 95% of all people starting a business
      offline and online fail to make any money.

      It's a shame really. Because there are a great many very talented
      and inspirational people who we could learn a lot from if it weren't
      for the two factors above.

      Here's to an end to procrastination,
      Sandy
      I agree with you, another point is lack of focus.
      Many are looking for ways to earn money, when they see another new way, the jumped over which result in...........result
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  • Profile picture of the author EndGame
    I have to disagree with the original statement and some of the posts that echo it.

    Laziness, lack of focus and finding it difficult to network with people are not genetic traits, they are all things that can be altered. My feeling is it has little to do with personality. It takes all sorts, and they're are all sorts of people Internet marketing, clever people, stupid people, organized people, messy people, offensive people, nice people, but they still make money.

    I am not really sure you can point at a group of people with certain traits and say "sorry guys, Internet marketing is not for you". Those traits are part of a mindset which can be altered if the person wants to do it.

    If you have been struggling with Internet marketing and making nothing, despite taking action, my guess would be you have been doing one of three things:

    1. You haven't been focussed on taking action and "flit" all over the place.
    2. You have been over-doing it and trying to get everything "perfect".
    3. You're devoting too much time to a business model that doesn't work.

    That would be my guess. If you haven't been making money after a lot of time and effort, I would not assume Internet marketing wasn't for you.

    It has already been said in this thread that Internet marketing is just like entrepreneurship on the Internet. Anyone can do it, they just need to want it and need some good information.

    Mindset is something that can be changed. Find it difficult to talk to people? Practice, it's something that can be changed. I find the OP a little negative in a sense. Perhaps I missed the point, but I genuinely believe anyone who wants to can by changing their mindset and by devoting themselves to the cause in a focussed manner. Just because it hasn't worked yet after years doesn't mean it is not for you. Ask some of the top business people in the World how many times they failed before they succeeded. Branson and all the other billionaires and millionaires you can think of.
    Signature
    "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
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    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      OK here goes,

      I take issue with a great many things in this thread.

      1) Instead of coming on here and saying "it might not be for you, you might as well quit" maybe instead you should ask if there is anybody who fits your scenario and see what they are doing wrong. I know you have no obligation to give out free advice but this whole thread comes across as advice.

      Maybe you are trying to help by saying "you need to quit." :confused: Thanks but no thanks.

      2) Yes there ARE lazy people in this world. Yes they DO fail a lot of the time. Does that mean everyone who isn't making money is lazy? No way! There are a great many reasons. Knowledge comes easier for some than it does for others. Some people face an uphill battle.

      Yes...all the traits of success can be learned.You have to ask yourself "how long have I been learning these traits?"

      Some people have been learning them from the good examples in their lives from the time they were young. Others, had no examples to learn from so they started on the success journey 15-20-25 years AFTER others.

      If you grew up in such a way that rewarded certain traits (competition, being outgoing, doing well, confidence) then you learned early on.

      Many, many people come from a situation that PUNISHES competition, being outgoing, doing well and having confidence.

      Lots of people have failure literally built into who they are. It can take years for the dedicated to reprogram that thinking.

      I would submit two possibilities....

      1) The people who are chronic failures really are not. While they may not be making any money, they are learning very valuable lessons that others learned back when they were eight or nine years old.

      THE FAILURES ARE THE PEOPLE NOT DOING THE WORK OR TRYING ANYTHING AT ALL.

      2) What may appear lazy to you may seem like a lot of effort to them. I will take for example when I started working out.

      I was doing all sorts of exercise. Curls, extensions, skull crushers etc....I was sweating really hard. But, in spite of all that I never got where I wanted to be.

      It took me several years of working out, wasting time and trying different things to finally be put on the path of real progress. A guy who played football in high school and college was talking to me about it and then I learned to stay away from curls and such. He got me doing the real stuff...dead lifts, presses, squats, olympic lifts....now I am making progress.

      This guy had been taught the right stuff. From his perspective, I wasn't working hard enough. The thing is, I was working my ass off...just not in quite the correct fashion.

      The same is true with success and marketing. They ARE indeed learned skills.

      I am of the persuasion that almost anybody can learn almost anything....its just a matter of time, practice, patience and work.

      So based on that.....

      1) Many people haven't been learning the right things for as long as others.
      2) Many people aren't practicing the correct things. Sure they think they are working hard, but they are missing it in ways that aren't always obvious to them.
      3) People who are struggling to make it don't need people who already HAVE made it to come say "hey maybe you should give up." Everyone is at a different level and NO ONE should EVER give up on something they really want.

      I am a little put-off by the fact that people who are making it here, would post in a success forum that others should give up.

      So, I am saying just the opposite to everyone. No matter how long you have been at this. No matter how hard you have been trying. If this is what you want DON'T GIVE UP.

      Success may be just around the corner. Keep learning the lessons. Keep trying. Eventually, you will get there. One day, it will all be worth it.

      Daniel
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      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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      • Profile picture of the author EndGame
        I pretty much agree with what Daniel has said here.
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        "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
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        • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
          Hi Daniel,

          I never said anyone should quit....

          I simply said that Internet Marketing may not be for everyone.

          and yes as other pointed out we all can learn something but that
          does not mean that we can necessarily become good enough...
          or to be able to monetize off of it.

          the simple facts are that Internet Marketing may not and is not for
          evryone...just the same as Door to Door sales or Becoming a Doctor
          is not for everyone. I could study all day long and learn from the
          best but that does not mean it is for me.

          Rather than taking this thread and spinning it into a negative as some have....I would rather see the emphasis put on the fact that Internet Marketing is hard work.

          There have been many posts about all sorts of things for the new person
          getting involved with Internet Marketing.

          Those of us who are trying to provide guidance point out that you need to take action, develop a plan, research, get a mentor etc.

          We also point out that there is a lot of Hype and watch out for the scammers. But at the end of the day you can't always fit a square in round hole.

          Some times as difficult as it may be...the best advice given is the truth. And that is that Internet Marketing may not be and is not for everyone.

          However, that bing said....when you are working hard at something or if you notice someone is doing something well...then focus on that or tell someone...Hey....I think your energy and talents would be better served looking into xyz industry.

          Im not sure where this got twisted into telling people to quit. The
          simple fact of life is that we all have something that we are great at or have the potential of becoming great at. Rather than wasting time on something that is not working I would only point out that it may not be for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Perhaps I missed the point
      Yes, you have and let me explain.

      Some people just can't do what you're saying they have to do.

      You're inferring that even people with no intelligence can be successful at
      Internet marketing.

      How?

      Forget about them learning how to do all the "things" that somebody who does
      it themselves has to learn. If they don't even have the intelligence to at
      least come up with an idea of what they want to do and be able to say to
      somebody, "Okay, look I'm as dumb as a stump and I can't learn all this
      marketing crap. This is what I want to sell or do. Do it for me" then how
      can they be successful? Hell, how can they even get off the ground?

      And even if they can somehow articulate what they want, do you think
      this person, or group of persons, is going to create and run his business
      for nothing? He's going to want to be compensated for his efforts. That
      takes money. What if the person is dead broke?

      Look, let me put it to you this way. I am as successful as I am because of
      the brains in my head and my work ethic. These are things that I always
      had. A person who either isn't smart or wants to just sit on his butt, isn't
      going to suddenly become what you say he can become just because he
      decides he's going to become it. Some people can't because they can't
      make themselves. And saying that they can if they want is like saying to
      me that I can become a pro basketball player if I want. No, I can't. I don't
      have the athletic ability and never did. And you saying I can doesn't
      change some realities that would be extremely difficult to overcome.

      Sure, technically could I have become a pro basketball player at 5'8" and
      130 pounds? Maybe, but at what cost? And would I have been willing to
      pay that price? I can tell you right now, no way in hell would I have
      worked that hard to become a pro basketball player given the incredible
      obstacles I would have had to overcome, not the least of which were
      terrible eyes and miserable eye/hand coordination.

      So no, not everybody is cut out to be an Internet marketer and to suggest
      otherwise is irresponsible in my opinion. Because the last thing I ever want
      to do is give somebody false hopes that they can make money online when
      they send emails to me like...

      "Look, I'm broke, I'm lazy, I don't want to work hard. I want to make
      money online. Can you help me?"

      No...not everybody is cut out to be an Internet marketer.
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      • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        Look, let me put it to you this way. I am as successful as I am because of
        the brains in my head and my work ethic. These are things that I always
        had. A person who either isn't smart or wants to just sit on his butt, isn't
        going to suddenly become what you say he can become just because he
        decides he's going to become it. Some people can't because they can't
        make themselves. And saying that they can if they want is like saying to
        me that I can become a pro basketball player if I want. No, I can't. I don't
        have the athletic ability and never did. And you saying I can doesn't
        change some realities that would be extremely difficult to overcome.
        I agree with you...it's just that telling someone to quit...in my opinion...is never the right thing to do.

        So they never reach riches and wealth......

        DEFINE SUCCESS.

        There are many definitions. Is life all about money? No....it is about self improvement and being the best damn person you can be.

        To reach your potential in ALL areas. To strive for continual growth and improvement.

        So....while someone may not be making any money after several years....what else have they EARNED through all of that work?

        I would never, ever tell someone to quit or give up on a dream. If it is really what you want Steven, I would never tell you to stop pursuing basketball.

        Yeah, maybe you will never be an NBA all-star. But, maybe, after years of hard work you could get on an minor team?

        Maybe, after years of hard work...you could finally be good enough to play on a seniors team?

        Maybe, after years of hard work you could be a coach? Or an assistant coach? Maybe a great coach to junior high kids?

        Is the NBA all-star more successful than the 7th grade coach? That is not for us to say. What if everyone told every kid their whole life...you may as well quit because your chances are slim.

        What counts in that each person work towards what they want.

        Therefore...I would find it offensive if NBA players were going to hard working little kids and telling them to quit.

        I also think it is offensive that successful people would tell those who are struggling that they should quit.

        Daniel
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        Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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        • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
          Originally Posted by Daniel McCoy View Post

          I agree with you...it's just that telling someone to quit...in my opinion...is never the right thing to do.

          Daniel
          Where has it been suggested to quit?
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          • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
            Originally Posted by The IM Reporter View Post

            Where has it been suggested to quit?
            Ummm...right here?

            What else could you possibly mean by:

            Originally Posted by The IM Reporter View Post

            Are you someone who has been constantly struggling
            to get something going online?

            .......

            Internet Marketing may not be for you.

            .......

            If you are not good with people you may not be good
            at networking and Internet Marketing.
            What do you expect, that a person will say "Oh...he's right it's not for me" and then keep trying?

            If you can explain how that is telling someone to keep trying....I would love it.

            Daniel
            Signature
            Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Daniel McCoy View Post

              Ummm...right here?

              What else could you possibly mean by:



              What do you expect, that a person will say "Oh...he's right it's not for me" and then keep trying?

              If you can explain how that is telling someone to keep trying....I would love it.

              Daniel
              Daniel, when I was just out of college, I went out looking for my first
              job. I went to an employment agent for some assistance. He tried to find
              something for me that I'd enjoy.

              He asked me about sales. I knew nothing about it.

              Instead of trying to explain to me what sales was, he asked me some
              questions. To the majority of the questions, one of them which was,
              "Would you feel comfortable not having a steady paycheck each week
              depending on how well you performed?" My answer to that, along with
              many of the other questions, was a resounding no.

              After he finished asking all the questions he said to me, "Well, based on
              your answers, sales may not be for you." He didn't tell me not to go into
              sales. He just suggested that sales may not be for me. At that time in
              my life, it wasn't. I needed the security of a paycheck. The pressure would
              have killed me.

              Today, being older, wiser, having worked for bosses and realizing that a
              job sucks, I would rather have the uncertainty.

              But make no mistake about it. Back then, going into sales would have been
              a horrible mistake for me. I wasn't ready for it yet.

              So sometimes, people aren't cut out for something NOW. That doesn't mean
              they won't be years from now. But in the meantime, they should do what
              they're cut out to do NOW.

              Destiny will take them to where they are meant to be.

              Whatever that is.
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            • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


              And let me say one more thing. I DID waste 30 years of my life on
              something that I should have never spent so much time on, and that's
              trying to be a professional song writer. I just didn't have the talent, as
              hard as I tried. I've written over 700 songs. Not one song got recorded.

              .........
              Finally, I stopped wasting my time on my music, got into IM and made
              something of myself. And I don't regret it one bit.

              But again, nobody could have talked me out of quitting my music. I had to
              do that on my own when I finally realized it was futile.

              Hope this clears up my views on this matter.




              Originally Posted by Daniel McCoy View Post

              Ummm...right here?

              What else could you possibly mean by:



              What do you expect, that a person will say "Oh...he's right it's not for me" and then keep trying?

              If you can explain how that is telling someone to keep trying....I would love it.

              Daniel

              Daniel,

              with all do respect...if that is they way you want to spin it then good for you.

              Telling someone to quit vs telling someone that the field that they have chosen may not be the right fit ....ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

              And as Steven pointed out you really can't convince anyone to do anything. We all make our own decisions.

              But to mislead someone and keep trying to train them in something that they simply may never be good at is doing that person no good.


              And yes, everyone needs to keep striving for their dreams...and should never give up!

              A skewed perspective is exactly what makes this Internet Marketing thing rough for some people. And you are skewing it even more.

              I consult with hundreds of Employers and their Human Assets -or- employees. We move and transition various employees to different departments through various assesments.

              By doing this we are not only helping the employer increase productivity but we are positioning

              the employee to maximize their earning potential based off of fitting them with

              responsibilites that better fit their experience and expertise.

              Guess what....the position that they were not doing very well in WAS NOT FOR THEM!

              Was repositioning these employees telling them to quit? -OR- was it a

              maneuver that allowed them to be happier and more successful in the area's of well being and finances?
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              • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
                I agree with the premise of this OP.

                The fact is......why is IM any different then anything else?

                I love boxing....love talkin' about the "sweet science" and the history of the sport. And I had some amateur fights back when I was kid...and wasn't bad for a slow white boy from Alasak.

                I have trained a few fighters.......but am smart enough to know....it ends there. Even my "prime" wasn't ever gonna get me too far in that game.

                I can assure you..... no matter how many hours of film I've studied....no matter how many hours I spend in the gym.......I'm not gonna ever be Sugar Ray Robinson, Leonard, Ali......or even the bum of the month those guys knocked out.

                The most over used phrase around this joint.....is "TAKE ACTION." Cuz action that isn't backed with the proper foundation and mindset...and yeah...talent......aint gonna matter.

                Cuz some action....aint gonna change the end result.....it's more of a case of beating your head against a lead pipe and wondering why it hurts.

                I see newbies who don't have clue....told to never give up.....take action etc.

                Some of these newbies....should do something else. Not everyone is cut out to do this shit.

                Just like I'm not cut out to be the Middle Weight Champion of the World.

                That's life. Do what you'se do best....what you love....whether it's online or off.


                xxx Vegas Vince

                I could have been a contender!
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                • Profile picture of the author JeremyL
                  Hey Sean,

                  Maybe your 'food for thought' shouldn't have been so spicey.

                  Hot thread. Accomplished.

                  Now, what you got cookin ma man?? (Guess well have to wait till 10 Sept)

                  Good luck
                  Jeremy
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                • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                  There's actually a lot of truth on both sides of the argument in this thread.

                  But the real question shouldn't be "is internet marketing right for you?". It should be "is business right for you?"

                  Because IM isn't a business in itself.

                  A business is simply a means of getting a product or service together with a targeted group of people. IM is just a way of facilitating that process. And it's a technology that, in theory, can be used by almost anyone as it doesn't carry the cost or logistic penalties of other marketing methods.

                  However, being a method of doing business, IM does require that a person has a "business mindset". And not everyone is that way inclined.

                  Many people prefer the "security" of a job structure, where it is clear what is expected of them. They do their day's work, come home and switch off. Nothing wrong with that - we all need civil servants and shop assistants

                  The problem starts when people with a "job" mentality think that IM will be just like turning up at their place of work - there'll be someone to tell them what to do; a clear system set out for them to follow. Whatever initiative they need to show is tightly confined within the company structure and as long as they follow the rules, their career path is set out for them.

                  So they come into IM and get advice from all the gurus and at the end they may know much of the process but they don't have the mindset to take it on from there - they're still waiting for someone to lead them. And when it turns out that there's no magic button, instead of realising that they need to be taking responsibility for their own actions and showing what natural business people call "enterprise", they cry "scam" and decide that IM is at fault.

                  They just simply weren't cut out for a life of business.

                  But if you've made the decision that you want to take control of your own life; if you really want to get off the "job" treadmill and carve out your own business, then don't let anyone put you off IM. With the right mindset, you WILL make it work for you.

                  Frank
                  Signature
                  I've just put Richard Branson's number on speed-dial. I call it my "Get-Rich-Quick" scheme.

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                  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                    If you think that you can make piles of money on the internet without ever doing any work internet marketing is definitely not for you.

                    And if you think that you can make money without taking any resposibility or talking to anyone then you'll also struggle.

                    On the other hand if you're willing to work your arse off and put more effort than you would into a job with more planning and intelligence in the actual work you do when you're starting out then you have a good chance of making an excellent living with internet marketing.

                    Contrary to popular belief internet marketing is NOT about making money while you're hiding behind your computer screen.

                    I think Marlon Sanders put it best in this video:

                    And this video:

                    Kindest regards,
                    Andrew Cavanagh
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                    • Profile picture of the author nursehoney
                      @ Frank - LOVE your signature - I have that same saying on my ballroom dancing squidoo lens!

                      @ Andrew - Thanks for sharing the videos...thought provoking...do you know where I can send Marlon some Valium? :p

                      I have mixed feelings about this thread. I'd like to think it was put here to evoke some thoughtful discussion rather than just to create attention, as someone else suggested. I guess time will tell.

                      I believe anything is possible. I've seen too many examples of people walking when they were told they'd never walk again, autistic children playing concert quality classical pieces, drug addicts come clean, poor kids from the ghetto become rich and famous, 80 year old grandmas graduate from college...and I think the difference between achieving and not achieving lies in large part with the answer to one question...

                      How bad do you want it?

                      In order to be successful, however you define it, you have to want it with every fiber of your being...so much so that you're willing to do whatever it takes, for however long it takes.

                      I think too many people turn to the internet for what seems like 'easy money'...then the sharks get to them and reinforce that ridiculous belief. It takes a while to learn that the big bold red headlines aren't always telling them the truth.

                      So yes, many people 'spin their wheels' for months, sometimes years trying to find their way through the murky waters of internet marketing.

                      But how can you say just because they haven't found the right formula yet that it 'might not be right for them'? Where would we be now if someone had said to Thomas Edison as he was trying for the 9,999th time to create the perfect filament, "Hey, Tom, you know, if you haven't gotten that by now, it may not be the right thing for you to do?"

                      I don't think you can put a time limit on hopes and dreams.
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                      • Profile picture of the author ktian
                        Originally Posted by nursehoney View Post

                        @ Frank - LOVE your signature - I have that same saying on my ballroom dancing squidoo lens!

                        @ Andrew - Thanks for sharing the videos...thought provoking...do you know where I can send Marlon some Valium? :p

                        I have mixed feelings about this thread. I'd like to think it was put here to evoke some thoughtful discussion rather than just to create attention, as someone else suggested. I guess time will tell.

                        I believe anything is possible. I've seen too many examples of people walking when they were told they'd never walk again, autistic children playing concert quality classical pieces, drug addicts come clean, poor kids from the ghetto become rich and famous, 80 year old grandmas graduate from college...and I think the difference between achieving and not achieving lies in large part with the answer to one question...

                        How bad do you want it?

                        In order to be successful, however you define it, you have to want it with every fiber of your being...so much so that you're willing to do whatever it takes, for however long it takes.

                        I think too many people turn to the internet for what seems like 'easy money'...then the sharks get to them and reinforce that ridiculous belief. It takes a while to learn that the big bold red headlines aren't always telling them the truth.

                        So yes, many people 'spin their wheels' for months, sometimes years trying to find their way through the murky waters of internet marketing.

                        But how can you say just because they haven't found the right formula yet that it 'might not be right for them'? Where would we be now if someone had said to Thomas Edison as he was trying for the 9,999th time to create the perfect filament, "Hey, Tom, you know, if you haven't gotten that by now, it may not be the right thing for you to do?"

                        I don't think you can put a time limit on hopes and dreams.
                        I agree completely in what you think about. People have the absolute ability to do anything and everything they set their mind into doing it.

                        The question is only how badly you want it. (Quoted from Anthony Robbins, "Success is 80% Why, and 20% How")

                        If you willing to spend more of your weekends and free time into learning the ins and outs of internet marketing and quit the excuse of saying "no time" but have more than enough going to a club. Then I believe you are more than qualified, internet marketing is then for you!
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                        • Profile picture of the author tamtu
                          You are making me a little confused...my hope is I am not lazy and I do not want to give up yet.
                          Signature

                          sheena

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                          • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
                            Originally Posted by tamtu View Post

                            You are making me a little confused...my hope is I am not lazy and I do not want to give up yet.
                            If this is what you want to do, do not give up.

                            If you ever decide that this isn't what you want to do...then walk away happy that you tried it and decided you don't want it.

                            As long as this is what you want....pour your life into it. All or nothing. 100% or Zero.

                            I believe that life will give you only what you DEMAND from it and you should never, ever settle for less under any circumstances. The road is longer for some than others but that is of no consequence.

                            Daniel
                            Signature
                            Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Daniel McCoy View Post

          I agree with you...it's just that telling someone to quit...in my opinion...is never the right thing to do.

          So they never reach riches and wealth......

          DEFINE SUCCESS.

          There are many definitions. Is life all about money? No....it is about self improvement and being the best damn person you can be.

          To reach your potential in ALL areas. To strive for continual growth and improvement.

          So....while someone may not be making any money after several years....what else have they EARNED through all of that work?

          I would never, ever tell someone to quit or give up on a dream. If it is really what you want Steven, I would never tell you to stop pursuing basketball.

          Yeah, maybe you will never be an NBA all-star. But, maybe, after years of hard work you could get on an minor team?

          Maybe, after years of hard work...you could finally be good enough to play on a seniors team?

          Maybe, after years of hard work you could be a coach? Or an assistant coach? Maybe a great coach to junior high kids?

          Is the NBA all-star more successful than the 7th grade coach? That is not for us to say. What if everyone told every kid their whole life...you may as well quit because your chances are slim.

          What counts in that each person work towards what they want.

          Therefore...I would find it offensive if NBA players were going to hard working little kids and telling them to quit.

          I also think it is offensive that successful people would tell those who are struggling that they should quit.

          Daniel

          Well, again, as the op said, I never said that I'd tell anybody to quit. That
          is something THEY have to decide for themselves.

          What I will say is this.

          If somebody DOES decide that this is not something that feel they are cut
          out for and they want to quit, NOBODY should try to talk them out of it.
          Of course some people are very weak willed and can be talked into or out
          of anything.

          Me? If I decide tomorrow that I've had it with Internet marketing, as
          successful as I am, for whatever reason, nobody, and I mean NOBODY
          could talk me out of it.

          I believe people have to make their own decisions in life.

          My daughter can't stand the sight of blood. So maybe being a surgeon is
          not something that she's cut out for.

          That's all I'm saying. Not everything is for everybody. You need to be a
          certain type of person to be an Internet marketer, at least as far as
          mindset. Some people would rather sit in front of their TV and drink beer.

          My gut tells me that they are probably not of the right mindset to be an
          Internet marketer. But again, that is a decision THEY have to make on
          their own. I will NEVER say to somebody "You're a lazy bum, this isn't for
          you." It isn't for me to say UNLESS they ask. Then I will give my opinion.

          And even after that, THEY have to make the final decision.

          But I still stand by what I believe. Internet marketing, surgery, pro sports,
          whatever...not everything is for everybody.

          Imagine my life today if I had wasted years trying to be successful at
          basketball (yes, I loved the game). I wouldn't have the wonderful life I
          have now.

          And let me say one more thing. I DID waste 30 years of my life on
          something that I should have never spent so much time on, and that's
          trying to be a professional song writer. I just didn't have the talent, as
          hard as I tried. I've written over 700 songs. Not one song got recorded.

          Imagine if I had decided that THIS is what I wanted to do with my life
          ONLY and if I couldn't make it I wouldn't do anything else.

          If my wife didn't have a good job, we'd be poor and out on the street
          right now. So I am speaking from very painful personal experience.

          Finally, I stopped wasting my time on my music, got into IM and made
          something of myself. And I don't regret it one bit.

          But again, nobody could have talked me out of quitting my music. I had to
          do that on my own when I finally realized it was futile.

          Hope this clears up my views on this matter.
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          • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            If somebody DOES decide that this is not something that feel they are cut
            out for and they want to quit, NOBODY should try to talk them out of it.
            Of course some people are very weak willed and can be talked into or out
            of anything.
            I completely agree and have a similar experience.

            But...my only point is that....if someone is HERE doing THIS and making pages and learning....obviously they are doing something they want to.

            As long as they are willing to keep trying, I don't think anyone should say "it's not for you."

            That's all I'm saying.
            Signature
            Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amy Bass
    I think that pretty much anyone can be successful with internet marketing. The problem is, very few people are actually willing to put in the work required.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Unfortunately for them, self-employment isn't for everybody. It takes dedication. You have to work, and nobody is telling you to. You must drive yourself. This isn't for everybody.

      Take a long hard look at yourself. Are you cut out for this?
      Signature
      Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
        Banned
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
          I believe the main reason why some people are just not cut out for Internet marketing is not because of brain power, it's because core beliefs are not changed and are in conflict with what it takes to get massive success in Internet marketing.

          If you believe in a guaranteed paycheck, you will never succeed in Internet marketing.

          If you believe you won't succeed long-term, guess what, you won't.

          If you crave security and not freedom, Internet marketing is not for you.

          If you think a J-O-B is still what you need, then that is what you will end up with. You will subconsciously push away business success because it doesn't fit into your principles.

          So it all starts with beliefs and principles. If you have a strong belief system, you WILL find a way to succeed.

          Nothing is harder to change in a person than his/her belief system.

          Fabian
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  • Profile picture of the author EndGame
    Originally Posted by The IM Reporter View Post

    Are you someone who has been constantly struggling
    to get something going online?

    Have you been spinning in circles for months or even years?

    Internet Marketing may not be for you.


    Internet Marketing is simply Marketing on the internet
    in the basic sense and Marketing takes skill, learned knowledge
    and a personality that fits with it.

    If you are not good with people you may not be good
    at networking and Internet Marketing.

    Just some food for thought!

    Sean
    This response is to something Steven Wagenheim said. Steven is a well respected Warrior here, and I respect his opinion, and my rebuttal of his comments is in no way a personal attack. I enjoy lively debate, and I'd like to make my point again and in doing so perhaps make it a bit more eidetic.

    Now in this discussion, I have been accused of missing the point, and I concede I may have, certainly Steven's response to my post was far more eloquent and detailed than the OP (which is what my post was based on).

    I have re-posted in quotes the original post. It was this post I was responding to. In this post the OP was suggesting, that despite years of trying, (the use of the word strugggling and the phrase "spinning in circles" suggests to me some form of action) if you are not successful IM may not be for you.

    Now, laziness didn't really come into this post. This post was vague and short, and has since been edited in the form of subsequent posts by the OP in an attempt to clarify the position. With regard to the issue of laziness however, I am a firm believer that this can be changed.

    To come back to my original point though, the OP described, or at the very least implied a scenario whereby some one had been struggling and taking some steps towards getting their IM career off the ground. The implication was that IM may not be for a person stuck in this situation. I have to disagree with this statement because I too am talking from personal experience and I was once this person, spinning my wheels and struggling for almost a year if not a little more. It was only until this year I started seeing an income from Internet marketing. And if I hadn't applied myself, changed my attitude and worked hard, it would never have happened.

    At one point I did think IM was not for me, but then I was moved to ask "why?" And the question I asked myself wasn't "why isn't it for me?" the question I asked was "why is it that some people who may not be as intelligent as me, or may have less money than me, CAN do this, but I cannot?" Fundamentally, in my case, the answer was mindset, and I changed my, and adapted until I saw an income. Granted Steven, I am not making anywhere near the amount you are, but at this stage in my life I don't need to, and I know that with hard work and dedication I will make that amount of money one day.

    My comments and post were in response to the OP which was short, vague and described a situation whereby after repeated trying some one who had not made any money should perhaps assume IM was not for them. I have been in that place, and I have failed numerous times, and with every failure, I learnt from it, I improved and I moved on until I started making money. I say again, many of today's top business men had horrible start-up businesses and horrible experience, if they had quit because "it wasn't for them" they would not be where they are today.

    To anyone knew who is struggling with IM and finding it difficult to put up a webpage, I'd say learn from your mistakes, and learn not to make the same mistake twice, and understand this takes work, commitment and dedication. Apply yourself and seek good information off friends and fellow Warriors. If you want or need this enough, keep going, you will succeed.

    On the other hand, if you are the proverbial "lout on the sofa" then I still believe you too can succeed, but you will need to change your mindset.

    I stand by my statements, and my post. Perhaps I would have slightly missed the point if the argument being made in the OP was the same as yours Steven, but it wasn't.

    I feel I didn't miss the point, and on this we will have to agree to disagree. I felt the need to respond in the way I did because I found the OP to be short, uninformative and unhelpful, particularly to those who are feeling particularly demoralized at the moment in their efforts. Some of those people just need pointing in the right direction, and a bit of nurturing. Some people will never make it, thats true, but those people either didn't want it enough, or just weren't given the help of info they needed. Everyone has massive potential though, no matter what their background and I would implore them to use it.
    Signature
    "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi,

      Well the original post is producing some great responses.

      I liked BigMike's, Fabian's and EndGame's in particular.

      Thanks for making me have to search, EndGame :-)

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eidetic

      I've got nothing to add to this currently, but I've been reading it and chewing it over. Thanks.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author macchiavelli
        Internet marketing can be for anyone.
        Anyone can outsource at internet marketing but it will just cut in your profits majorly.

        I cant write ad copy for jack so I outsource that.
        Writing adcopy is one of the most important parts of internet marketing which I suck at, but this does not mean that I should stop with doing online business
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

      This response is to something Steven Wagenheim said. Steven is a well respected Warrior here, and I respect his opinion, and my rebuttal of his comments is in no way a personal attack. I enjoy lively debate, and I'd like to make my point again and in doing so perhaps make it a bit more eidetic.

      Now in this discussion, I have been accused of missing the point, and I concede I may have, certainly Steven's response to my post was far more eloquent and detailed than the OP (which is what my post was based on).

      I have re-posted in quotes the original post. It was this post I was responding to. In this post the OP was suggesting, that despite years of trying, (the use of the word strugggling and the phrase "spinning in circles" suggests to me some form of action) if you are not successful IM may not be for you.

      Now, laziness didn't really come into this post. This post was vague and short, and has since been edited in the form of subsequent posts by the OP in an attempt to clarify the position. With regard to the issue of laziness however, I am a firm believer that this can be changed.

      To come back to my original point though, the OP described, or at the very least implied a scenario whereby some one had been struggling and taking some steps towards getting their IM career off the ground. The implication was that IM may not be for a person stuck in this situation. I have to disagree with this statement because I too am talking from personal experience and I was once this person, spinning my wheels and struggling for almost a year if not a little more. It was only until this year I started seeing an income from Internet marketing. And if I hadn't applied myself, changed my attitude and worked hard, it would never have happened.

      At one point I did think IM was not for me, but then I was moved to ask "why?" And the question I asked myself wasn't "why isn't it for me?" the question I asked was "why is it that some people who may not be as intelligent as me, or may have less money than me, CAN do this, but I cannot?" Fundamentally, in my case, the answer was mindset, and I changed my, and adapted until I saw an income. Granted Steven, I am not making anywhere near the amount you are, but at this stage in my life I don't need to, and I know that with hard work and dedication I will make that amount of money one day.

      My comments and post were in response to the OP which was short, vague and described a situation whereby after repeated trying some one who had not made any money should perhaps assume IM was not for them. I have been in that place, and I have failed numerous times, and with every failure, I learnt from it, I improved and I moved on until I started making money. I say again, many of today's top business men had horrible start-up businesses and horrible experience, if they had quit because "it wasn't for them" they would not be where they are today.

      To anyone knew who is struggling with IM and finding it difficult to put up a webpage, I'd say learn from your mistakes, and learn not to make the same mistake twice, and understand this takes work, commitment and dedication. Apply yourself and seek good information off friends and fellow Warriors. If you want or need this enough, keep going, you will succeed.

      On the other hand, if you are the proverbial "lout on the sofa" then I still believe you too can succeed, but you will need to change your mindset.

      I stand by my statements, and my post. Perhaps I would have slightly missed the point if the argument being made in the OP was the same as yours Steven, but it wasn't.

      I feel I didn't miss the point, and on this we will have to agree to disagree. I felt the need to respond in the way I did because I found the OP to be short, uninformative and unhelpful, particularly to those who are feeling particularly demoralized at the moment in their efforts. Some of those people just need pointing in the right direction, and a bit of nurturing. Some people will never make it, thats true, but those people either didn't want it enough, or just weren't given the help of info they needed. Everyone has massive potential though, no matter what their background and I would implore them to use it.

      Endgame, let me ask you a question. And I know this is going to be one
      hell of a tough one to answer.

      Yes, I am very successful in IM. It's the best decision I ever made
      professionally. No question about it.

      But...

      This wasn't my first choice in life. I wanted with all my heart to be a
      songwriter and have a million seller and win a Grammy. I'm serious. You
      don't spend 30 years of your life writing songs (over 700), going to
      songwriter's conventions, meeting with publishers and agents, sending
      out over 3,000 tapes to publishers if you're not serious about something.

      But after 30 years I finally realized I just didn't have it. It wasn't for me.

      Now, what if I hadn't come to that realization? What if I had decided to
      stick it out?

      I would have never gotten involved in IM, I wouldn't have the success I
      have now and would probably still be struggling to get one of my songs
      recorded.

      Would you not say that this would have been the biggest mistake I ever
      made in my life?

      Remember, I am VERY successful in IM. So if you say it was a mistake to
      give up on my songwriting career (no, you can't do both well with all the
      time it takes to put into your songwriting) then what you are saying is
      that going into IM was a mistake.

      My wife would have a very hard time accepting what I'm doing is a
      mistake.

      Sorry my friend, but sometimes in life there are things that you are just
      not cut out for and saying that you are does not change the reality.

      I would have died a broke and miserable songwriter, like so many do who
      never give up on that dream.

      My friend Tommy Falcone, God rest his soul, died at age 50 stacking
      records at music stores while still trying to break into the recording
      business. He never made it. He probably never would have.

      Just wanting to do something, no matter how bad you want it (I am a
      trained musician with a minor in music) will not make it so. Many good
      and talented people never make it in this world. They work their butts off
      and still don't make it.

      The guy who discovered Bon Jovi, his name is Steve Zuckerman, said to
      me in a meeting...

      "Steve, you're a great guy and I can see how hard you're working at this,
      but your stuff isn't today. Your music is stuck in the 60s and when you
      try to sound current, it doesn't work for you. I'm telling you this as a friend
      you're going to have a very hard time making it in this business."

      I'll never forget that meeting. It was 1994. And yet, as dejected as I was,
      I still didn't give up. It wasn't until 2004, one year after I had gotten into
      IM, 10 years later, that I realized that I had to make a decision. If I was
      going to really be success at IM (I wasn't yet) I had to put the music
      aside and put all my efforts into this. So 10 years later after I was told I
      wouldn't make it, 30 years after I first put pen to paper, 700 songs later,
      3,000 submissions later, 300 meetings with agents and publishers later,
      $50,000 of recording equipment costs later, $10,000 in education later, I
      finally said "enough".

      So you tell me my friend...Did I make the wrong decision? Did I give up too
      soon? Should I have never put all my time into IM after all that?

      If your answer is I made a mistake in what I did, then I admire your
      determination and your stubbornness.

      You're a better man than I am.

      No, some people are just not cut out for IM...or whatever it is they're doing.
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      • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        So you tell me my friend...Did I make the wrong decision? Did I give up too
        soon? Should I have never put all my time into IM after all that?
        I know that wasn't directed at me but I want to answer anyway.

        I don't think that just because you never sold a Grammy winning song...that your 30 years were a waste. Not at all.

        You know...in your soul....that it is not for you. You know now because you gave it your all.

        If you had walked away 29 earlier...after just one year...think of all the lessons you wouldn't have learned. All the people you wouldn't have met. How much of that experience has played into your success with IM?

        The worse part...you would have an itch in your heart because you had never pursued your dream until the end. You DID THE RIGHT THING for those 30 years....until you reached the end. Then, you moved on.

        The thing is...you may look at a person...say a person with a handicap...and know that they will never do certain things.

        But as long as someone has it in their heart to try...why should anyone else discourage them?

        Maybe that guy did you a favor...after all it had been 30 years. But the internet hasn't been around that long. Most people have only been trying for a few years...not 30.

        For most....it is not even close to the time when they should quit. They simply have to much to gain.

        Daniel
        Signature
        Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          why should anyone else discourage them?
          See, this is the problem I have with this whole argument against the ops
          post.

          Nobody is trying to discourage anybody from doing anything.

          We've made a simple statement...

          IM isn't for everybody.

          Truth is, it's the biggest DUH statement in this whole ridiculous thread.

          Of course IM isn't for everybody, just like surgery isn't for everybody, just
          like painting isn't for everybody, just like...and on and on.

          Just because you WANT to do something means you're going to be good
          and/or successful at it.

          That's all we're saying.

          Whether or not a person decides to go ahead with their dream is up to
          THEM. I'm never going to say to somebody "this isn't for you." They have
          to figure that out for themselves. It may take them a day, a week, a year
          or 50 years. It's going to be different for everybody.

          And guess what? Nobody REALLY has the answer as to whether or not
          something is or isn't for another person because nobody really knows the
          other person well enough to make that determination. Only the person
          knows that...and sometimes they don't realize it until many years have
          passed, just like me.

          But what I DO have a problem with is somebody saying to someone...

          "Don't EVER give up. You can do it"

          Bull sh*t. They may NOT be able to do it. And if they blindly listen to that
          person and think that if they just keep trying they'll make it, they may
          spend the rest of their life doing something that they just weren't cut out
          to do.

          So while I will never tell somebody to give up, I feel it is just as irresponsible
          to tell somebody NOT to give up ever.

          The responsible thing to do is to say to the person to give it their best
          effort and eventually they'll decide if this is right for them. That's the
          responsible thing.

          But we have all these freakin cheerleaders with their, "Never give up, you
          can do it" bull sh*t and it drives me crazy. Because they could be driving
          people to do things in spite of that voice inside of them that's saying,
          "You know what, this really isn't for me. I'm not making any money and I'm
          certainly not enjoying this. I hate some of the work I have to do, don't
          want to do it..." and on and on. And you're going to tell these people to
          NEVER give up? Please!

          We all have to make our own decisions and our own choices and nobody
          should tell somebody to or not to do something. Either piece of advice is
          irresponsible in my opinion.

          But nobody here is telling anybody to give up. If the op had said that, I
          would have been the first one to blast his butt.
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Steven,

            I understand a good part of your post and the reasons behind it, but there is one major flaw in the argument you just presented -

            Songwriting and internet self-employment are as similar as apples and oranges.

            Songwriting is a very narrow niche. Sure there are different types of music, but that's irrelevent.

            You need to remember that almost nothing has ever come along like the internet. The lack of barriers to entry, the fact that any subject at all is exploitable online (including songwriting, instrument playing, band promotions etc).

            Add to this the fact that it is the ultimate communication medium means that finding freelancers, prospects and JV partners is simpler than ever before.

            If you bear this in mind, AND 1000 other things about online business that I could list here but won't, you should be able to see that quitting as a wannabe songwriter and quitting as a wannabe internet success story are worlds apart, two entirely different things.

            Therefore, your decision to quit as a wannabe songwriter (in retrospect) was a good thing. But this does not mean that people should be afraid to give everything they've got trying to encourage others NOT to quit on the internet.

            It's not just a choice of job. It's to do with freedom, potential riches, and lifestyle.

            Anyone who is currently online and doesn't get this needs to go and do some offline work in a J.O.B. for a while to appreciate how working for the man offline destroys your soul - you are just passing time until retirement.

            Again - I can see where you are coming from, but again, no one should be discouraged from trying to convince others to NEVER give up online unless they are about to face financial oblivion. And even then, they should go and work in a J.O.B. while rebuilding their online empire.

            Disclaimer - there are people who will just never make it online/self employed, and are ideal for an offline J.O.B. but in general, they don't spend more than a few weeks in this forum -the reasons why are obvious. So anyone who is here for a little longer, should be encouraged to fight on and never, ever quit.
            Signature


            Roger Davis

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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              Hi Steven,

              I understand a good part of your post and the reasons behind it, but there is one major flaw in the argument you just presented -

              Songwriting and internet self-employment are as similar as apples and oranges.

              Songwriting is a very narrow niche. Sure there are different types of music, but that's irrelevent.

              You need to remember that almost nothing has ever come along like the internet. The lack of barriers to entry, the fact that any subject at all is exploitable online (including songwriting, instrument playing, band promotions etc).

              Add to this the fact that it is the ultimate communication medium means that finding freelancers, prospects and JV partners is simpler than ever before.

              If you bear this in mind, AND 1000 other things about online business that I could list here but won't, you should be able to see that quitting as a wannabe songwriter and quitting as a wannabe internet success story are worlds apart, two entirely different things.

              Therefore, your decision to quit as a wannabe songwriter (in retrospect) was a good thing. But this does not mean that people should be afraid to give everything they've got trying to encourage others NOT to quit on the internet.

              It's not just a choice of job. It's to do with freedom, potential riches, and lifestyle.

              Anyone who is currently online and doesn't get this needs to go and do some offline work in a J.O.B. for a while to appreciate how working for the man offline destroys your soul - you are just passing time until retirement.

              Again - I can see where you are coming from, but again, no one should be discouraged from trying to convince others to NEVER give up online unless they are about to face financial oblivion. And even then, they should go and work in a J.O.B. while rebuilding their online empire.

              Disclaimer - there are people who will just never make it online/self employed, and are ideal for an offline J.O.B. but in general, they don't spend more than a few weeks in this forum -the reasons why are obvious. So anyone who is here for a little longer, should be encouraged to fight on and never, ever quit.

              Roger, I actually agree with what you said. Surprised? And no, songwriting
              and IM are not the same. However, one's desire to do "whatever" is the
              same regardless of what the thing is. We don't rationalize in our heads (at
              least I don't) that this makes more sense than that because this has less
              of a barrier to entry and that is almost impossible to get into. If that were
              the case, nobody would try to get into the field of entertainment since it's
              so damn competitive.

              But some people will go for something even if it kills them. For those
              people, whether they succeed or not is irrelevant because the desire is
              so in their blood that nobody could get them to quit regardless of what
              they said. For THOSE people, I say God bless you...go for it IF that's what
              you want.

              But then there are some people who you can simply say to them, "You
              know, this is going to be really hard" and they'll come back at you with
              something like, "Oh really? Do you think I should keep at it?"

              THOSE people obviously don't have that "I'm going to do it until I die"
              commitment and therefore, they probably don't have what it takes to make
              it if they're already questioning if they should even before they give it a
              shot.

              And then of course, there is everybody in between those two extremes.
              Each one will be different. Each one will have their own breaking point.
              I won't ever tell somebody quit, but if somebody comes to this forum and
              says to me...

              "I've been doing this for 4 months and I'm not getting anywhere. Should I
              keep trying?"

              That person isn't all that committed to begin with and to THAT person I
              will simply say, "This may not be for you. You have to make that decision
              on your own."

              Naturally before I say that, I will ask what they've done so far in order to
              get their level of commitment.

              There is no one size fits all. Everybody is different.

              But I still stand by what I say...This business isn't for everybody.

              I think that's the only point that the op and myself are making.
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            • Profile picture of the author Ricter
              Internet marketing may not be for you if... you like walk-in customers and chit chat. Corner store marketing is better for you in that case.

              Internet marketing may not be for your product/market either. That corner store is better for a liter of milk.

              The only reason the op's thoughts have generated excitement, imho, is because it gives the cliched out to those who are still trying to learn this medium (those with the highest odds of quitting), and those who are making money off of those still trying to learn this medium.
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              • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
                Great thread.

                I agree with both sides of this argument. I think that some people ARE NOT cut out for IM...as they are when they enter it. What I mean is that some people do have poor work ethic, maybe not the strongest learner, and maybe not that motivated as a whole.

                With that group of people, I agree, if you stay that way, chances have it that you will not do very well.

                BUT, people can change. It takes a person to be honest with themselves and be willing to know where they need personal development and change the items holding them back. Without this honesty and follow through, then yes, IM is not for them.

                Someone that has a hard time learning can still be a great IMer. They may not learn as quick, and may have to work harder and longer, but it is still possible. But if they do not change the character traits that prevent them from putting forth the effort to learn...then all is lost.

                So I agree that IM may not be for everyone as they are when they enter the field, but I do believe that anyone (if they choose to) can change.

                And success is relative. Will we all be multimillionairs? Nope. But for some, success means making an extra $500 a month to pay for a new car or to make a college loan payment.

                For me success means total global domination and I refuse to rest until I do. Haha. Actually not, but it sounds cool.

                Keith
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            • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


              Again - I can see where you are coming from, but again, no one should be discouraged from trying to convince others to NEVER give up online unless they are about to face financial oblivion. And even then, they should go and work in a J.O.B. while rebuilding their online empire.

              Disclaimer - there are people who will just never make it online/self employed, and are ideal for an offline J.O.B. but in general, they don't spend more than a few weeks in this forum -the reasons why are obvious. So anyone who is here for a little longer, should be encouraged to fight on and never, ever quit.
              Roger,

              This is part of the point.
              As you mentioned in the first paragraph quoted...unless they are about to face financial oblivion. Could it be that some people increased their financial despair by throwing more money at the IM game when ultimately they would have been better off spending it elsewhere?

              And the second paragraph is just as important. You are right most people will only spend a few weeks in this forum and will bounce to the next or whatever....but if only someone would have suggested....Internet Marketing just may not be the game for you.

              I will further add...that does not mean self employment is not right for these people. It just means that the Internet Marketing platform does not compliment their attributes, experience and expertise.

              Sean
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          • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
            This is proving to produce a good discussion...

            And with reference to Endgame...I too like a lively debate
            and you bring up some good points...
            However, yes my post was short but I think
            that the post in its original forum was not vague.

            Steven caught on to it immediately and still gets it.

            That being said, and as you pointed out there has been more clarification
            and I have elaborated.

            Vegas Vince gave another great example... as did Big MIke.

            And that is where the perception comes in.

            When I posted this I never included the words "Lazy", "Take Action", "Quit"
            "Give UP" or any other word that represents "Failure"

            And I further debate with those of you who say that IM can still be for anyone....because it cannot.

            The point simply was....by spinning in circles (working hard..if you want to spin it that way)

            Now you could argue that the people who would not do well with (or be interested in) IM would probably never entertain the thought...and you are right.

            The fact that IM "May Not Be For You" does not mean that "You are lazy"
            Period.

            Think About something for a minute...

            How many searches does the Make money Niche get? -or- Work From Home..."Get Rich Quick" etc.

            Now how many Internet Marketers are focused on that niche?

            Ok.....what is the solution these marketers are pushing? Buy their product and you will become successful...make money...in the next 24 hours (some of them promote this) just buy my product.

            Now this huge demographic of people...who obviously need extra money get sucked into IM...thinking that it is the "Magic Bullet" They are bombarded day in and day out with "Solutions" to a problem that never gets solved. Why? because they opt in to everyone's list and now get more bombardments from people solving their problem.

            These people now find themselves getting information overload...looking for more solutions to the "New" problems they now have in the fact that they were not properly educated from the beginning that IM takes work,
            technical knowledge so on and so forth.

            These people are now chasing "the dream" and finding that their original problem...."The Need for additional money to support their famlies" has been further compounded because they have to buy more products or spend more money to make the first solution "Work"

            At the end of the day...their search sucked them into the Internet Marketing Niche. This niche may not be their answer or solution. It could very well be compounding their original problem.

            A farmer who has been farming all of his life who knows nothing about selling marketing etc may be losing his farm due to ...whatever.

            He types in earn extra money, need money or something like that as he is now facing certain financial despair.

            BAM>>>>> Buy this product and you will be making 10k in the next month fills his google search.

            You tell me...is this the right solution? Would this farmer of 30 years be the right person for IM? Perhaps!

            But I would argue that this Farmer would have the odds stacked more against him than for him. I would also argue that after some time he will find himself in a bottomless pit of further spending to make something happen.

            And it would not work for him in the short term. Not because HE WAS LAZY or a QUITTER but the exact opposite.
            The issue is he is now vested...because he was continually "persuaded", marketed and sold a solution THAT WAS NOT FOR HIM.

            At some point ...as this farmer found himself in this situation he would have realized...after some time that he needed more than the Magic Bullet Product he purchased...and found himself in a forum.

            If only someone would have the balls to tell him what he needed to hear vs. stick with it....you are losing everything you have...it will come.
            If only people would have the balls to truly help people...by saying

            Ya know what Mr. Farmer. Internet Marketing may not be for you at this point. Your personality expertise and years of experience may be better served by securing an income in the form of finding a Job ...FOR RIGHT NOW and working on supplemental income on the side.

            Or ..Mr farmer ya know what...I see you spending all of this "HARD WORK" chasing something on the Internet ..that just is not working for you at this point....less sit down and conduct an assesment of your strengths and weaknesses and pin point the area's that you excell at?

            Maybe you would be better served taking all of your experience and approaching other farmers on a consulting basis and educate them on the proper way to cultivate crops.

            Or Mr Farmer...you have purchased a lot of John Deer equipment over the years...you know the equipment inside and out. Instead of WORKING HARD and WASTING YOUR TIME on a PIPE DREAM that FORCED DOWN your throat on the internet....perhaps you can get intouch with your Local John Deer representative and explain to them all that you know about their equipment and how you would be a tremebdous asset to their team in the form of a Service Manager, INdependent consultant etc.

            This is hypothetical obviously but yet drives the point deeper. Internet Marketing may not be and is not for everyone. Some people find themselves knee deep in it ....and did not realize what even happen.

            Sean
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            • Profile picture of the author EndGame
              Do you know what, I am a bit disappointed here, because I am not sure if one of the posters here in this thread tried to imply I was a cheerleader recklessly telling everyone to "keep going no matter what". That certainly isn't the case and if that was indeed the implication directed at me, then I find it quite offensive, and I worry that I haven't been making myself clear.

              Steven, its been said here before that music and internet marketing are so far apart you can't compare. At least I can't. I'm a budding song writer myself. Not committed to the point you were, but I know a bit about the industry and certainly I think there are some incredible and fundamental differences which means the two can't compare in this debate.

              Secondly, in my mind, and from previous posts, it seems in the minds of others as well, Internet marketing is about running or facilitating a business, and with the right guidance and mindset, anyone can do this. People from all backgrounds make it. It is true that the minority of people are successful at doing this now, but if they want it, and if they change their mindset and approach more people could see great success, and that in some ways is what the Internet has allowed.

              Now, the OP seemed to be saying "look if you've been trying, or if you've been learning but haven't tried, then you might want to consider this is not for you". Thats what I saw of it, and that post didn't take into account that actually there could be a multitude of other reasons which may affect why some one who has been trying for a period of time may not be succeeding. And I think if some one really wants to be a success in this business, with some changes they could actually achieve their ambitions.

              Steven, I've been at this for over a year or so with no results up until this year, should I have quit 12 months in? I didn't and now I am seeing income. I can only imagine what seeing the the OP of this post might have done to my morale and work ethic had I viewed this at a "low point" in my journey. Now I might not be as successful as you or others, and there is a long way for me to go, but I believe firmly in myself and I believe I will achieve my goals and ambitions.

              If you can't afford IM, it might not be the right time for you, but come back to it when you have the money. Get a job to fund it (its what I did whilst studying at a full time degree at University).
              If you're too lazy to work, or too afraid to push yourself out of your comfort zone, then IM is going to be tough for you, but you can change that attitude and you can move forward with it. It might be hard, but it just depends what you want out of life.

              I think IM is just like business, and the beauty of it is the barriers to entry have been lowered to the ground with the technology available on the Internet. It is not the same as music or pro sports, and thats the beauty of it. You don't have to be the most gifted person, the best looking, or have the best school grades. It helps if you're not a complete idiot, but if you can use a computer and email then you're in with a sporting chance.

              This post in my mind referred to people who wanted to be in IM, and had been making attempts to get into it. If they do want it, then I think with the right direction and mentality they can do it no matter who they were before or what they are now.

              To Exrat,
              Thanks for the response. I love the word eidetic, I got it off a lawyer during work experience when I was 16. It had the judges scratching their heads when he said it, and I just think it's a nice little word which is under-used.

              To the OP,
              Thanks for your response and for starting this discussion. For the average man on the street, IM may not be for him, but if you want this, and you've been trying, I feel like there could be a multitude of reasons for not seeing success, and I felt like that needed to be discussed to counter balance the original statement, which I recognise was not an absolute "don't do it" but potentially could be dis-heartening to many out there who are working hard at this. As I have said this before it is nothing personal at all, I just thought it was healthy to discuss this further and put it into a context of some sort.

              I don't recall if I ever said "never give up". I think what I said was there could be other reasons for failure, and everyone has it in them to make a success of themselves in the business and IM field. At least, thats what I thought I was saying, perhaps I was miss-understood or perhaps I wasn't being crystal clear in what I was saying, I know for sure I am far from the best writer out there, but I had hoped to express my point eloquently in this thread.

              I am a firm advocate of positive thinking and focused action. Ultimately I think IM is something everyone is capable of if they apply themselves to it. If the circumstances aren't right, wait till they are, or if you don't want to be a success in business or Internet marketing thats cool to. Be the best you can be in what ever it is you want to do.

              As far as being irresponsible goes, I think it would have been irresponsible to have left the position of this thread as it was without arguing the toss, putting a new perspective on it and putting it into a bit of context. Yes, don't do IM if you can't afford it, it doesn't mean its "not for you" it could just mean "its not your time". I felt such things needed to be commented on in light of the length of the post. And whilst the OP I am sure meant nothing negative by it, from the point of view of a new person, or struggling IMer, it may have been damaging.

              Cheer leader? Never have been, never will be. I can be the most cynical 21 year old you will ever meet some times. I don't talk or post for the sake of talking or posting, and I have NEVER been part of the "TAKE ACTION" club. You've got to take action, but it's got to be the right kind, and its got to be focused and done in the right way for it to mean anything.

              Arrogant? This is something I have been accused of before (not in this thread). But I would define arrogance as "thinking you know it all" and I for one don't. I have got so much to learn, and I am both ready and excited to learn. But I also feel that I have a lot to contribute as well, so when something comes up that I think is important to me and others, I'm cool with putting my neck on the line and just saying what I think about it. I'm self-confident, I believe in myself and I think you have to if you want to succeed at anything.

              I'm not singing the "TAKE ACTION" song, I'm saying if you've been taking action, and its not working, then something is wrong, and you need to fix it. Whether that is your mindset or your methods of achieving your goals, whatever it is, reflect on it, seek advice, learn from it and move on.

              And not that my opinion would count at all to many of you on this thread, perhaps least of all to you Steven, but I am sincere in saying; if you have got some recordings knocking round shoot em up on myspace and tout the link here on the forum. I for one would listen, I love music of all kinds, and I think it would be a shame to keep all those years of song writing to yourself as it was clearly a passion of yours. Just my 2 cents, from one songwriter to another.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

                Do you know what...
                I didn't quote the whole post, but let me say, excellently said. I totally
                understand your perspective. I don't totally agree with all of it, but I
                certainly understand where you're coming from.

                If you saw the way I handle people thinking of getting into this business,
                you would see that I present the facts, as I see them, and then let them
                decide for themselves if this is something that they feel is right for them.
                But I don't sugarcoat things. I tell them right up front that there is work to
                be done and if they're looking for shortcuts, they don't exist.

                From my experience, I'd say it's 50/50 the people who say to me, "I know I
                can do this" and those who say, "Thanks, but I don't think this is for me."
                In either case, I don't try to influence them in either direction. I've been
                told that I lose sales because of this. Maybe, but I'm cool with that. I'd
                rather make a sale to somebody who is really committed. And even at that,
                not all who are committed make it.

                Why? I don't know. Very few get back to me with any detail as to what
                they did and what results they got. But I do know this much. There are
                a few people who I have taught (some of them right here at this forum)
                who ARE having success at least partially because of my help. Does that
                make me feel great? You better believe it does.

                At the same time, the people who write to me and tell me they're going
                back to their jobs, they make me just as sad because in a sense I feel
                like I failed them, even though I know I didn't. Why? Because like I said,
                IM isn't for everybody. And the same instruction I gave to the guy who
                succeeded, can turn out to be useless to the guy who doesn't simply
                because...(drum roll) it's not for him.

                There was a time I felt like you, that anybody could do this. And I used to
                talk prospects into giving this a shot. And I was damn good at it. But no
                more. Now, I let people decide. I sleep much better at night doing things
                this way.

                I have no doubt, with your attitude, that you will be JUST as successful as
                me someday if not more so. And when you are, and you're helping others,
                and you think you've got it all figured out and feel that YOUR wisdom can
                make EVERYBODY succeed and it doesn't, you will finally understand where
                I am coming from.
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                • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
                  And I might further elaborate with Steven here...

                  The mere fact that someone might suggest to another
                  that IM might not be for you should be viewed as genuine
                  insight rather than insult.

                  To suggest that you whole day and life be ruined because
                  someone who cares made a suggestion that could possibly
                  steer you in a direction that better fits YOU is not a very good
                  suggestion.

                  I too have learned a lot over the years and will continue to learn some
                  thing new everyday (I hope). I have failed as well and lost a boat load
                  of money. But with each failure I have learned what not to do or
                  how to improve what I did. We all know the saying about having
                  to fail first before we can succeed (this is not always the case)

                  The most important thing I have learned...is to ask questions, listen....and
                  accept constructive feedback.

                  I just had a conversation this morning with my partner about the insurance
                  business. He is in this business. Through our discussion one of the first things he said was ...this is a tough business and is not for everyone...it takes a certain breed....and he had no knowledge of this topic.

                  If I am considering something and asking advice from peers...especially who know me and my area's of expertise I would only expect them to
                  tell me that what I was considering was not for me.

                  Sean
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                  • Profile picture of the author EndGame
                    Thank you for your kind response Steven.

                    I understand where you are coming from as well, and hope to help many people achieve their goals as you have. I recognize that I am at a disadvantage in this discussion due to a lack of long-term experience, and as such, I can only go off my own experience in this area.

                    I just didn't want to come across as part of the clan of "cheerleaders" that have been mentioned in this thread. That's really not my style and it never shall be.

                    I think we've both made our point, and I thank you for taking the time to respond and debate this with me. I really hope some of the silent "readers" out there will take something valuable from this discussion.

                    Who ever you are, where ever you are....

                    Take care and good luck.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

                      Thank you for your kind response Steven.

                      I understand where you are coming from as well, and hope to help many people achieve their goals as you have. I recognize that I am at a disadvantage in this discussion due to a lack of long-term experience, and as such, I can only go off my own experience in this area.

                      I just didn't want to come across as part of the clan of "cheerleaders" that have been mentioned in this thread. That's really not my style and it never shall be.

                      I think we've both made our point, and I thank you for taking the time to respond and debate this with me. I really hope some of the silent "readers" out there will take something valuable from this discussion.

                      Who ever you are, where ever you are....

                      Take care and good luck.

                      Here is what I think each person should take from this thread and I think
                      this is something that we can both agree on.

                      Each one of us is responsible for our own lot in lift. We can't go blaming
                      others for our failures. Yes, there will be those out there who will try to
                      take advantage of us by talking us into "their' program or system. And
                      while some of us are damn good at it, we still have free will. We can
                      decide what we believe and what we don't.

                      From that, we can then decide if the course of action we take is for or
                      against doing xyz. Nobody should allow another person to influence our
                      decision UNLESS they are a PROVEN authority and can demonstrate
                      irrefutable proof that choosing xyz course will lead us down a dead end.

                      And then, even THEN, we still have to decide ON OUR OWN, if we are going
                      to give up or continue on.

                      The wonderful thing about life is that we are all given free will. Some of us
                      have more free will than others, thanks to government restrictions and so
                      on, but for the most part, we can do anything we like in a free society.

                      And I will be damned if I will ever let anybody tell me what to do or not
                      do, even if I believe they are right. Ultimately I will make that decision
                      based on ALL the evidence. And that is what everybody else should do.

                      Now that I'm cutting down on my work just a bit (will be really lightly
                      scheduled by the new year) I am going back into my home studio that I
                      built with my own two hands. I'll be getting back to my music, NOT
                      because I think I'm ever going to have a hit song, but because I enjoy it
                      and it's a part of me that I have neglected for over 4 years now. I have
                      my priorities in order. Business comes first, but my music comes second
                      and I WILL enjoy it again. I just know that it's something that I can't
                      spend all my time on because it is never going to be a livelihood. And if
                      by some fluke that changes and I happen to come up with something
                      that sells 10 million copies, I'll sell my home businesses and go back to
                      what I love the most. But I'm not giving up my livelihood, or risk it in any
                      way, until I am certain that music is going to be profitable for me.

                      To me, that's being smart and has nothing to do with the "rights" and
                      "wrongs" of "giving up your dream."

                      Some will disagree, I am sure. They will say I sold my soul to make a buck.
                      That's fine. I'll accept that. Selling my soul allowed me to give my wife the
                      kind of life she deserves and send my kid to school. So I won't apologize
                      for doing the "practical" thing.

                      Ultimately, what is right for EACH person is going to be different. Some
                      people would have lived and died for their music even to the point of
                      ending up homeless. Who am I to tell them the were wrong for doing it?

                      On the other hand, somebody who says, "screw it, I want to eat" isn't
                      wrong either. That's why I admire those who really sacrifice and go all out
                      for what they want. It takes a ton of courage and determination. I had it
                      for 30 years.

                      It's longer than many.
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                      • Profile picture of the author EndGame
                        You are right Steven, this is certainly we can both agree on.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
                      Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

                      Thank you for your kind response Steven.

                      I understand where you are coming from as well, and hope to help many people achieve their goals as you have. I recognize that I am at a disadvantage in this discussion due to a lack of long-term experience, and as such, I can only go off my own experience in this area.

                      I just didn't want to come across as part of the clan of "cheerleaders" that have been mentioned in this thread. That's really not my style and it never shall be.

                      I think we've both made our point, and I thank you for taking the time to respond and debate this with me. I really hope some of the silent "readers" out there will take something valuable from this discussion.

                      Who ever you are, where ever you are....

                      Take care and good luck.
                      Hey EndGame,

                      I do not feel that you came across as part of the cheerleader clan.

                      And I too hope that the silent readers take some things away from this thread. There is a lot of good information here.

                      As with Steven, I do not necessarily agree with everything..but then again
                      there are those who do not agree with me.

                      That is what makes for good discussions.

                      Sean
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