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I Have To Pay To Sell My Music? Really? I Mean REALLY?

by Steven Wagenheim
36 replies
When I joined Amazon Kindle it was easy peasy. I signed up. Didn't cost me any
money and Amazon took a cut of every Kindle book I sold. No prob.

I want to start selling my classical music MP3s.

If you to to Amazon and go to their "Sell MP3 and CDs" section, you have to
go through a 3rd party to do this. And they list a few.

So I go to the first one, CD Baby, and they charge $49 for me to upload an
album.

Really?

I have to PAY to try to sell my music?

I'm an unknown. Nobody knows me from Adam. The likelihood that I will even
sell ONE collection of songs is slim to none. But I figure with the preview
that people get at Amazon, maybe somebody will hear something that they
like and I'll make a sale or two.

At $49, if I charge $5 for each collection, I'd have to sell 10 just to break
even.

Really?

Why does Kindle make it so easy but for music they have to make it so hard?

So here is my question.

Is there a way for me to sell my music up at Amazon or Itunes or wherever
without having to pay for the privilege?

Thank you for your help in this matter.
#music #pay #sell
  • Profile picture of the author Complexity
    You have to pay to sell an app on iTunes. It shows you're genuinely interested in what you have to sell. Imagine if you didn't have to pay to sell an app or something similar. How overcrowded would the app store be with pointless crap?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Complexity View Post

      You have to pay to sell an app on iTunes. It shows you're genuinely interested in what you have to sell. Imagine if you didn't have to pay to sell an app or something similar. How overcrowded would the app store be with pointless crap?
      So why isn't Kindle run that way? Doesn't the same principle apply?
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author Complexity
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        So why isn't Kindle run that way? Doesn't the same principle apply?
        I may be giving ignorant advice, but it would relate to why some websites require you to pay for registration, and some wouldn't, would it?
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Complexity View Post

          I may be giving ignorant advice, but it would relate to why some websites require you to pay for registration, and some wouldn't, would it?
          That doesn't answer my question. Why does Amazon Kindle allow you to sell
          your Kindle books at no charge to you and yet Amazon MP3s you have to jump
          through hoops with 3rd party sites that charge ridiculous amounts for a
          product that may not even sell at all.

          There is no logic in this at all.
          Signature
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          • Profile picture of the author Beatinest
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            That doesn't answer my question. Why does Amazon Kindle allow you to sell
            your Kindle books at no charge to you and yet Amazon MP3s you have to jump
            through hoops with 3rd party sites that charge ridiculous amounts for a
            product that may not even sell at all.

            There is no logic in this at all.
            MP3s are usually a larger file size than an ebook which would mean more bandwidth for Amazon to serve them.

            Amazon also makes money from selling the Kindle so it has more incentive to help people distribute books as easily as possible so their Kindle customers have plenty of fresh content to choose from...which ultimately leads to more Kindle sales.

            When I have to pay for a service to try and sell something I look at it in terms of traffic. You are basically paying them to tap into their traffic source which might bring you sales.

            The warrior forum for example, you pay $40 to put up a WSO. You may not sell one unit or you might sell 1,000 units but either way, you still only pay the $40 to tap directly into their traffic.

            I don't know this as fact but I'm also guessing the 3rd party you have to deal with is also responsible for keeping an eye on the music side to make sure people are not uploading material they don't have the rights to which would take some risk away from Amazon.
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          • Profile picture of the author KenJ
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            That doesn't answer my question. Why does Amazon Kindle allow you to sell
            your Kindle books at no charge to you and yet Amazon MP3s you have to jump
            through hoops with 3rd party sites that charge ridiculous amounts for a
            product that may not even sell at all.

            There is no logic in this at all.
            Hi Steven,

            I think that the reason a third party is involved is that the number of content creators is far fewer. There can never be a huge number of composers. The skill set is too high.

            There has to be some sort of payment to involve the third party. No company is going to jump in for nothing.
            Amazon's business model is based on selling content. So they will happily sell your most recent opus. But they do not want to be closely involved in bringing it to their market place.

            There is also not the opportunity of scale with the MP3 that you have with the written word.

            Good luck with your music

            KenJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        So why isn't Kindle run that way? Doesn't the same principle apply?
        This is Steven's original question. For which I don't have an answer as to why Amazon wants 3rd party vendors to do the uploading for audio sales.

        I suspect it might have something to do with audio quality. Some of the audio in audiobooks, podcasts, and interviews, not produced in a studio, is terrible sounding.

        At least with Kindle books, Amazon has some consistency in the quality of the delivery of the Kindle file. Yes, I realize some of the writing is downright awful.

        With audiobooks and music recordings, not only does Amazon need to deal with having a consistent delivery system, but they might want some standard of recording quality too. For example, Amazon does send people to ACX for help with production of audiobooks. And ACX gives audio recording guidelines to help people maintain some degree of sound quality.

        But this is all one big SWAG on my part.

        :-Don



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  • Profile picture of the author owais211
    Banned
    Someone said,if you want to make money you have to spent some money...of course i don't agree with it but it has some truth in it.
    Before you start making money you have to invest on it,that's all that comes into my mind when i hear of such statement
    So why can't you invest on it if its worth doing it.
    Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author joaquin112
    You're doing things wrong. You have to have a following BEFORE you start selling your music. Upload some tracks to YouTube and other free sites and start building a fan base. Then sell hundreds of albums and the $49 will seem like nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author bengirwb
      I understand the frustration.

      Other than a % of the sale, why should you have to pay to just get on the shelf?

      Example: Amazon charges a fee to enroll as a publisher of your paperback books.
      That didn't make sense to me, so I pulled my book and then listed on Amazon as an independent seller. No fee. Now I get about 70% paid in 14 days. Much better terms than payment in 60 days if I had paid the publisher fee.

      If there a way to be an independent seller of music?
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        They probably don't want any junk in their store.

        If someone can't sell 10 copies at $5 it's probably better staying on a hard drive.

        You need to have some confidence you will sell more, even if it takes a while to get going.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tristan Gemus
    Are you planning on selling less than ten albums? Wouldn't be making much money anyways. Itunes takes 30%, so if you plan on selling less than 34 copies then sell it there.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    If you believed in your product, then you would have no problem paying for the privilege to sell it.

    I have never heard your music, and I have never wanted to hear it. However, I have heard rumors about it.
    Signature
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    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      If you believed in your product, then you would have no problem paying for the privilege to sell it.

      I have never heard your music, and I have never wanted to hear it. However, I have heard rumors about it.
      The rumors you heard about my pop tunes are true. They're horrible. I've
      stopped writing them and have embarked on writing classical compositions
      which are excellent. But classical music is not a hot niche as it is. Combine
      that with the fact that I don't have a name like Beethoven and the likelihood
      of sales is slim to none.

      Yes, I probably should build a following on Youtube. But that's a long drawn
      out process in itself. Again, nobody knows me from Adam and just uploading
      my classical tunes isn't going to magically get me views. I know enough about
      marketing to know that much.

      So now we're back to "I have to do the whole marketing" shtick that I am
      trying to get away from. I've had 10 years of marketing online and I'm done
      with it. I just want to upload some music to a site and if by some chance
      somebody is looking for new classical music, sees my compilations, listens to
      the previews and likes what they hear, maybe I'll sell a couple. Hell, even
      my Kindle books which I don't promote AT ALL sell a couple of copies a month.

      That's all I'm looking for and I don't want to have to pay for the privilege to
      do it because if I have to, it's not worth it.

      It has nothing to do with believing in my music. My classical music is
      excellent. It has to do with "Nobody knows who I am and even if they did
      they wouldn't find me among the thousands of listings anyway" marketing
      catch 22 that has made me wash my hands of this business.
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        So now we're back to "I have to do the whole marketing" shtick that I am
        trying to get away from. I've had 10 years of marketing online and I'm done
        with it. I just want to upload some music to a site and if by some chance
        somebody is looking for new classical music, sees my compilations, listens to
        the previews and likes what they hear, maybe I'll sell a couple. Hell, even
        my Kindle books which I don't promote AT ALL sell a couple of copies a month
        I'm not following this at all. You're on a marketing forum. You want to sell your music. But, despite your sig about building a business and making $16k per month you don't want to do the whole marketing shtick. People are just supposed to find your music, decide to preview it, love it and buy more.

        Have you tried classical music forums? That is where you can discuss music, perhaps there are places to submit free samples or get feedback, use a sig to promote your classical music business, etc.

        Here's another possibility. There is a difference between writing classical composition and performing. I believe the Amazon section is for downloading performances. Shouldn't you be looking to get musicians to perform your compositions? Then you coat-tail on their following and their marketing. You can still get paid royalties from your arrangements. Many in the music business make more from writing than they do from performing.

        If you team up with someone already with an Amazon music sellers account then you can avoid the registration fee. You'll be sharing profits with the performer, but if you're only expecting to sell a few copies anyway does it really matter?

        You can also set up sales on your own website and not have to compete with everyone else selling on Amazon.

        .
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    I'm an unknown. Nobody knows me from Adam. The likelihood that I will even sell ONE collection of songs is slim to none.
    Maybe they don't want you wasting their resources on something that won't sell?
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    I am astounded that you think that any musician can just upload their music and start selling it without any investment into marketing that product. LOL

    But, having said that, I suspect this is what you need here:
    Kunaki -- CD/DVD manufacturing and publishing service

    Once you get the kunaki set up, I think you can arrange to have Amazon sell those products as well.



    p.s. YouTube will let you upload your music performances for free, and you can link to your Kunaki sales page from the description area inside your video at YouTube.
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    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author bengirwb
      It's amazing that folks think there's nothing wrong with PAYING a merchant to stock your merchandise (other than a % of the sale).

      If I pay a radio station to play my record, it's called Payola and is against the law.
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by bengirwb View Post

        It's amazing that folks think there's nothing wrong with PAYING a merchant to stock your merchandise (other than a % of the sale).

        If I pay a radio station to play my record, it's called Payola and is against the law.
        A few things ...

        Amazon does a lot more than stock merchandise, although stocking itself is valuable and costs money even if there are no sales and thus there is no % of a sale to reimburse Amazon for its efforts.

        For example, Amazon handles payment, distribution, warehousing, customer service, provides a website and infrastructure, inventory, returns, has a number of "trust" issues that cause people to buy from its site, handles payments to the seller, operates an affiliate program, etc. Amazon pays for employees to do all this, pays for insurance, handles tax issues, and all the headaches that come with employees.

        If you don't want to pay a merchant to stock your merchandise you can always be a wholesaler and sell your merchandise to the merchant. Good luck with that, especially for the product at issue in this thread.

        Payola is entirely different. It was akin to a FTC violation for failure to disclose being paid to blog about a product. A federal law was violated when it was not disclosed radio stations were getting paid to play certain songs. They were getting paid to manipulate things like Billboard's charts and creating fake popularity to generate more sales and increased earnings for the record companies.

        If someone was paying Amazon to fake their popular items list so that more of their 'popular' product was sold, that would be akin to the 'payola' issue.

        .
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  • Profile picture of the author jeskola
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    When I joined Amazon Kindle it was easy peasy. I signed up. Didn't cost me any
    money and Amazon took a cut of every Kindle book I sold. No prob.

    I want to start selling my classical music MP3s.

    If you to to Amazon and go to their "Sell MP3 and CDs" section, you have to
    go through a 3rd party to do this. And they list a few.

    So I go to the first one, CD Baby, and they charge $49 for me to upload an
    album.

    Really?

    I have to PAY to try to sell my music?

    I'm an unknown. Nobody knows me from Adam. The likelihood that I will even
    sell ONE collection of songs is slim to none. But I figure with the preview
    that people get at Amazon, maybe somebody will hear something that they
    like and I'll make a sale or two.

    At $49, if I charge $5 for each collection, I'd have to sell 10 just to break
    even.

    Really?

    Why does Kindle make it so easy but for music they have to make it so hard?

    So here is my question.

    Is there a way for me to sell my music up at Amazon or Itunes or wherever
    without having to pay for the privilege?

    Thank you for your help in this matter.
    Try Bandcamp - not sure what the deal is but i remember it being free.

    http://bandcamp.com/artists

    For itunes etc - nope you will always have to give something up and usually if there is a label involved - you're getting the smallest piece of the pie.
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author chrisis4ever
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author bengirwb
      Macy's does a lot more than stock merchandise.

      It collects payments, etc., etc.

      And I would find it amazing if Macy's charged a musician to stock his CD.
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by bengirwb View Post

        Macy's does a lot more than stock merchandise.

        It collects payments, etc., etc.

        And I would find it amazing if Macy's charged a musician to stock his CD.
        Even more shocking would be if Macy's used its valuable floor space to stock a CD for free so it could mess around with the accounting and send Steve a check for 50 cents if one sold.

        It is just shocking that one would have to pay a list owner for a solo ad, or one would have to pay the Warrior Forum to allow their product to be listed, instead of the forum only getting a percentage of each sale. Hard to believe ClickBank is allowed to charge a fee before a product can be sold at retail by ClickBank, and then ClickBank has the nerve to also profit from each sale.

        Then there are the stores where you have to pay for a space to sell your antiques or whatever, including classical CDs, and the store also takes a cut of every sale.

        It's the way it works and it's a great deal for Steve. For $49 he gets unlimited exposure on the world's largest shopping site, trafficked by millions daily, with a listing picked up and highly ranked by Google that may be seen by millions more. All for a measly $49.

        As Steve said, he's an unknown. No one knows him. But for $49 he is available to everyone, people worldwide can preview his music and decide to buy after being wowed, and he can advertise elsewhere that he is on Amazon selling right next to Bach. It could be the opportunity of a lifetime.

        .
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by bengirwb View Post

        Macy's does a lot more than stock merchandise.

        It collects payments, etc., etc.

        And I would find it amazing if Macy's charged a musician to stock his CD.
        What you should find amazing is the notion that Macy's would
        have the least bit of interest in stocking anything for an unknown
        artist with zero previous sales. If I could pay Macy's $10,000 to
        stock and merchandise anything for me... I would... in a heartbeat.
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  • Profile picture of the author pro2sell
    Amazon is taking third parties on it's behalf to prevent crap beeing sold. That's why you have to pay for it. I have my music online on iTunes, Amazon (worldwide!!!) and a lot of streaming services where I get a commission when one of my songs is played. Altogether there are dozens of sites where my music is listed and the best, I don't need to own a label to sell. There is a fee per song/album, but not much. It's about $10/year.


    If you like I can give a recommendation. Please send a PM
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  • Profile picture of the author trevord92
    Why not use CreateSpace to get your MP3 into Amazon?

    They specifically say no set up charge.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alessandro Zamboni
    If you want to sell your MP3 files on one of the top markets of the world, it's logic there's a fee to pay, even for a bandwidth problem. People download 10 tracks, and they're a lot more than 50 MBs for every customer.

    Secondly, how can a company survive and give the best if it doesn't earn anything from sales?

    This is my point of view. If a place is right to sell, I will be more than happy to pay a fee.

    See you soon,
    Alessandro
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Hi Steve, ages. Miss your wealth of experience but surprise to see you act like a noob here.

    As per amazon and iTunes, I believe you already know the answer, they are not for upcoming artist like you and I except if you just feel like adding to their bank accounts.

    I would rather use that money to pay for ads on FB to grow my fan base and boost my post containing my album.

    Do you have a video? If no convert to MP4 using just your bio data, social media links, website and one picture and upload to YouTube with a few good keywords. Also uploading live performance and video interview will be great for your exposure too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I want to thank everybody for all the responses. Many make a lot of sense.
      Ultimately, it will come down to how viable I think the classical music market is.

      Classical music is much different from rock/pop.

      Rock/pop, people are always looking for the "new" thing.

      Classical, people are mostly looking for recordings of the classics, Bach,
      Beethoven, Mozart, etc. It's very difficult for a "new" composer to sell.

      Yes, maybe the curiosity factor and the ability to preview my music will help
      sell it. In that case, I'm going to have to extensively research to see what
      site will give my music the biggest bang for the buck as far as exposure. That
      is where I am very much behind the 8 ball because I am not at all familiar with
      this segment of the industry. If it was traditional IM, I'd know that the best
      search engine to pay for ads is Google and the best video site is YouTube
      and so on.

      But with this? I don't have a clue. So throwing $9, let alone $49, into an
      unknown would be like throwing money away. And there are so many of these
      sites out there, right now, with my limited knowledge of them, I'd be
      guessing.

      Imagine an Internet marketer guessing on what PPC service to use and they
      end up choosing Juicy Ads because he liked the name.

      Can you spell disaster?

      That's what I'd be doing right now by just choosing one of these sites. That's
      why I'd prefer at least a free trial somewhere to see what traffic is like. But
      I am finding that just doesn't exist.

      Therefore I have to be very cautious about this. I can hook up with a site
      that doesn't get traffic to begin with. Then what?

      I realize that as much as I just want to get away from marketing (I've really
      had my fill of it after 10 years) I can't. I have to go about this as I would
      any other endeavor to "sell" something.

      I just hate having to go through all this crap again.

      But I guess if it's important enough to me to sell my music, I will. If it's not,
      I won't.

      It's really as simple as all that.

      Thanks for all your replies and assistance.
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Steve,

        I guarantee that you will have at least one sale...me.

        I go back and listen to the samples you linked to on occasion and like them.

        So, when you get everything all sorted out, send me a pm with the link.

        Also, my mother-in-law teaches classical piano and I could have her listen. If she likes it, who knows? She is plugged in to a lot of classical music lovers.

        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
          I realize that as much as I just want to get away from marketing (I've really
          had my fill of it after 10 years) I can't. I have to go about this as I would
          any other endeavor to "sell" something.

          I just hate having to go through all this crap again.
          Then don't. Why do you think you need to be a one man band doing everything?

          Focus on the music and let someone else do the marketing. The problem is there is a cost involved.

          Now comes some tough love ...

          Steve, I've seen some of your other recent posts. The ones about doing marketing all these years and not having anything to show for it. The ones about being desperate for cash and having to sell your valuables. If paying $49, or even $9 as you say is a waste of money because you probably won't get that back from your classical music sales, is this endeavor a wise use of your time?

          Maybe you could figure out how to create a music service that works with Amazon, that takes new artists in for free and only collects a portion of their sales.

          .
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

            Then don't. Why do you think you need to be a one man band doing everything?

            Focus on the music and let someone else do the marketing. The problem is there is a cost involved.

            Now comes some tough love ...

            Steve, I've seen some of your other recent posts. The ones about doing marketing all these years and not having anything to show for it. The ones about being desperate for cash and having to sell your valuables. If paying $49, or even $9 as you say is a waste of money because you probably won't get that back from your classical music sales, is this endeavor a wise use of your time?

            .

            I was thinking exactly what you said, except for one thing.

            I was thinking that if Steve needed to figure out something to help him make ends meet, maybe he ought to consider a job.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              I was thinking exactly what you said, except for one thing.

              I was thinking that if Steve needed to figure out something to help him make ends meet, maybe he ought to consider a job.
              Had I not lost my last job in 2000 because of health reasons, I would have
              never considered Internet marketing.

              But thanks for the suggestion. :rolleyes:
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                Had I not lost my last job in 2000 because of health reasons, I would have
                never considered Internet marketing.

                But thanks for the suggestion. :rolleyes:

                Hi Steven,

                I'm a musician too and had a friend from church recommend BMI, music royalty, music publishing, music licensing, songwriter, copyright, composer | BMI.com for publishing opportunities. I haven't submitted any of my music yet, but plan to in the near future.

                A lot of music doesn't have to be "made for radio". You'd be amazed at the amount of music that's picked up for commercials, movies, etc. My friend's son had a piece of music picked up for commercial use and he earned around $100k in royalties! No joke!

                It's free to join. I'd definitely read the fine print, though. They'll basically own the rights to anything you submit for two years, so if you're not okay with that then you shouldn't do it. Still, real artists and others come to this place looking for new music, new talent, etc so it might be worth it.

                HTH,

                Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Right now, you tube does not charge any money. Also, they share profits with you. I believe the share is 50% and that adds up. Live performances can get millions of views. Hope that things work out for you. What people need is to get more exposure.
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    Ok - I'm curious now. I like classical music. Why not upload some to YouTube and add a link in your sig. I'd be curious to hear it.

    Who, though, is performing it? Is it orchestral, chamber music, solo? Please tell me it isn't you at an electric keyboard performing a wannabe symphony

    As to answering your original question. I guess Amazon aren't so interested in the music side which is why they are relying on third parties. I wonder if the charge is historical?
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