The beggining on the end of email marking

11 years ago

65%?! And here I thought I had it bad with a 20% decrease in open rates:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...i-thought.html

Yes Google often does things which cause a lot of damage to us marketers. Apart from this update, the recent SE updates also caused a lot of damage to several people.

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Taniwha

11 years ago

What I don't understand is if someone really wanted to be on your list, wouldn't you think most of them would search for it in the 'promo tab'?

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John Atkins 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Taniwha

What I don't understand is if someone really wanted to be on your list, wouldn't you think most of them would search for it in the 'promo tab'?

You'd be surprised at how much difference a small change can make. For instance, an e-mail opt-in form will get more opt-ins than a name and e-mail opt-in form, even if the name field is optional.

With this new update people have to click on the promotion button to see your e-mail. Even though it's just an extra click, it will have a bad effect on one's open rates. People will not see your e-mail after logging in and some would forget checking the promotion tab.

When you test this stuff you will quickly realize how much difference an extra click, field, page or whatever can really make.
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Ron Douglas

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Taniwha

What I don't understand is if someone really wanted to be on your list, wouldn't you think most of them would search for it in the 'promo tab'?

To steal a quote I heard on tv: "Aint nobody got time for that" lol

Seriously though, do people look in the Spam folder to get your emails? If they really want to get it, yes. But it still hurts your overall open rate because no matter how good you are, most people don't want to get your emails that badly. Maybe the first email you send, but definitely not the fifty-first.

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John Atkins

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

To steal a quote I heard on tv: "Aint nobody got time for that" lol

Seriously though, do people look in the Spam folder to get your emails? If they really want to get it, yes. But it still hurts your overall open rate because no matter how good you are, most people don't want to get your emails that badly. Maybe the first email you send, but definitely not the fifty-first.

Exactly. Even the marketers who send the most valuable stuff will see a reduction in open rates.

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Coby 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Taniwha

What I don't understand is if someone really wanted to be on your list, wouldn't you think most of them would search for it in the 'promo tab'?

You could also say the same about the "spam" folder...

But - my question is... Why make them look for it? When you can put it right in front of their face?

Sometimes common sense is not so common.

Cheers,
Coby
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KevinChapman 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Taniwha

What I don't understand is if someone really wanted to be on your list, wouldn't you think most of them would search for it in the 'promo tab'?

I agree completely. If they want to read your email they'll find them.
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- Martin Avis 11 years ago
  
  The beggining on the end of email marking
  
  This may not be politically correct to point out, but if your email subject lines are as well crafted as your forum ones I'd guess that your subscribers are quite grateful for Google's intervention.
  
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JSProjects 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Taniwha

What I don't understand is if someone really wanted to be on your list, wouldn't you think most of them would search for it in the 'promo tab'?

No. People are inherently lazy and adding another step is, unfortunately, going to severely decrease open rates.
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stoltingmediagroup

11 years ago

Google would not suffer at all if every Internet/eMail Marketer decided to Boycot them. The main purpose of having a gmail account for most people always has been to have a free email address to give to family and friends, not to receive marketing messages. The main purpose (Revenue model) for Google is to display advertising paid for by their their legit business customers, which you and all eMail marketers are not.

Your subscribers may have opted in to your list to get a freeby etc, but might simply be ignoring your emails at this point, or marked them as spam, or simply not receiving them due to many changes. If I may make a suggestion however, assuming your subscribers are English, you may wish to hire an editor to check over your emails before you send them, if your post is any indication of what they receive, as this may be a factor in the open rates.

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RobinInTexas

11 years ago

Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup

Your subscribers may have opted in to your list to get a freeby etc, but might simply be ignoring your emails at this point, or marked them as spam, or simply not receiving them due to many changes. If I may make a suggestion however, assuming your subscribers are English, you may wish to hire an editor to check over your emails before you send them, if your post is any indication of what they receive, as this may be a factor in the open rates.

I had the same feeling when I read the title of this thread, as well as many more on this forum.

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datingworld

11 years ago

I do not know what it is going to take for all of us to stick together and NOT Use Any Google service and to spread the word.

Thanks but A Big No
It won't harm Google but would certainly harm me.

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Woodward82

11 years ago

Google is not here for us, they are here for the same end user we are looking. And considering how many things Google has their hands into , I doubt all of us could quit using there services. Seeing how they just bought out Motorola Mobile

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turnkeybiz

11 years ago

A a gmail user, I have yet to look at that promotional tab. As an email marketer I can feel it. What we have to do is look for work around's where we can. continue to build your email list, so you add more numbers to that left over 35% and to build over ways to communicate to people that want to hear from you.

One way I have learn is the Skype Group Method, in a nut shell, I have my visitor sign up to an email list and can at the same time with one click, sign up and automatically join my Skype group.

So now I am using skype as a targeted list building tool that allows me to speak to a large list of people. We need to just continue to look for new ways to communicate.

We can't wait and hope google will do the right thing, we have to make sure we overcome anything.

Good Luck all

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Meharis

11 years ago

Originally Posted by jsmm

"Now why would anyone want to use this company's services"

"We need to spread the word to Boycott All Google Services & Spread the Word..."

You don't have to, but may think out of the box.

Godd luck...

Meharis

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Long Beach Nathan

11 years ago

Well, one thing we could do is just point out to Gmail users when they're signing up that our emails will be listed under the "Promotions" tab. Say something like "Gmail Users, Don't forget to check the Promotions tab to receive your E-Course". It probably won't change much, but it could help.

It's too bad the effect is this drastic. I for one always check my promotions tab just so it's emptied. There's something about updates where I have to see every last one of them even if it's something I'm not interested in. Too bad most other people aren't like that.

But I definitely wouldn't call this the beginning of the end for email marketing. People WILL make an effort to see our message if we give them enough reason to.

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Ron Douglas

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Long Beach Nathan

But I definitely wouldn't call this the beginning of the end for email marketing. People WILL make an effort to see our message if we give them enough reason to.

I think one solution is marketers will have to do a better job building credibility and relating to subscribers before they opt-in. It's going to be more difficult to build a relationship through email later on if you don't initiate it up front while you have their full attention. People need to be opening your emails because they want to hear from you instead of just to get the one-time freebie you're offering.

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turnkeybiz

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Long Beach Nathan

Well, one thing we could do is just point out to Gmail users when they're signing up that our emails will be listed under the "Promotions" tab. Say something like "Gmail Users, Don't forget to check the Promotions tab to receive your E-Course". It probably won't change much, but it could help.

good point or in your landing page, put an image of the Google tab saying PLEASEEEEEE look here every so often lol.

but your right, maybe a simple instruction will help a bit

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TegaD

11 years ago

Originally Posted by jsmm

I just checked my lists and about 65% of my lists consist of gmail email address .
Then I sent out my usual email for a few days!
Anyone that says that Gmails update did do much damage is out of their mind.
My open rate DROPED 65% I didn't get 1 open from someone with Gmail.

I do not know what it is going to take for all of us to stick together and NOT Use Any Google service and to spread the word.
Everything that they are doing is a attack at us and our livelihood.

So far as I can recollected and I am sure I missed a few you have Adword updates all targeting us, panda and penguins that hurt a lot of people, then links on youtube, they killed admob, the keyword tool is going soon, this updated to gmail and I am sure I am missing a few.

Goggle hates each and every one of us and they can care less about are business. Why would you want to hang with someone that wants bad things to happen to you.
And they are listening in on your Text messages, phone calls, emails and social media traffic and reporting to the FCC and other government agencies on a regular basis.(These are FACTS)

Now why would anyone want to use this company's services.
We need to spread the word to Boycott All Google Services & Spread the Word...

Interesting post, have you built a relationship with your list?
How is the quality of the emails you've been sending out?
Do your Readers KNOW who you are?
Are you educating your readers on how to recieve information from you?

If you answer these questions and a whole host of others that mean you are paying a attention to taking care of your list, then the seriousness of this latest G slap can be reduced. Take the time actually provide value and your numbers should improve.

i believe it was Zig Zigler that said, "you will make alot of money, if you help other people make a lot of money"". The point here being it should not be about you, yeah you're the one messaging them but make them WANT to read your messages and you won't go far wrong.

Just my 2 cents hope you find it useful.

Thanks

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arojilla

11 years ago

I stopped using most Google services months ago for things like trying to connect everything to the same account or that really really annoying YouTube pop-up asking me to use a real name again and again. Now I only log in to Gmail and only when I'm sure I got an email (like when I registered here today).

How are they determining what goes to the promo tab? Just keywords?

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Alex Mensah

11 years ago

I know its pretty annoying but anyways marketers here's a tip to work around this.

On your next mailing send this to your subscribers to disable this feature if they want to.

Here's how to disable Gmail tabs.

Go to the Settings box in the upper  right hand corner of your inbox and  choose Settings.
Click on the "Configure InBox" tab, then  unselect all the categories except  Primary and then click the " SAVE' tab below.  That's all.

Once they do this they will receive all their emails like how Gmail used to work.

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Coby

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Mensah

I know its pretty annoying but anyways marketers here's a tip to work around this.

On your next mailing send this to your subscribers to disable this feature if they want to.

Here's how to disable Gmail tabs.

Go to the Settings box in the upper  right hand corner of your inbox and  choose Settings.
Click on the "Configure InBox" tab, then  unselect all the categories except  Primary and then click the " SAVE' tab below.  That's all.

Once they do this they will receive all their emails like how Gmail used to work.

If you do that then you are also helping your competitions emails land in their inbox as well :p

Cheers,
Coby

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PCG Tech

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Alex Mensah

I know its pretty annoying but anyways marketers here's a tip to work around this.

On your next mailing send this to your subscribers to disable this feature if they want to.

Here's how to disable Gmail tabs.

Go to the Settings box in the upper  right hand corner of your inbox and  choose Settings.
Click on the "Configure InBox" tab, then  unselect all the categories except  Primary and then click the " SAVE' tab below.  That's all.

Once they do this they will receive all their emails like how Gmail used to work.

Alex, the only problem with this plan is that my readers have to open the configuration email that is buried deep in the recesses of the promo folder. :/

Haven't spent too much time researching the ins and outs of the change, but it seems reminiscent of the HTML vs. Plain Text conversation: "How can we change our emails to keep them out of the spam folder?" I doubt I'm the only one who now considers those other two folders to be spam. You can call it classic conditioning; you can call it whatever you want. Bottom line, I'm not touching those emails anymore.

Anybody else up for referring to the Promo and Social folders as Spam #1 and Spam #2, respectively?

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arojilla 11 years ago

Originally Posted by PCG Tech

Anybody else up for referring to the Promo and Social folders as Spam #1 and Spam #2, respectively?

LOL! I'm with you on this! For days my browser Gmail widget/indicator drove me crazy because it kept warning me that I had unread email when I was pretty sure I had read absolutely all emails there... Turned out it was because of unread messages I had in those two folders and that somehow I was unable to notice no matter the times I entered Gmail! It was the first time I clicked those tabs that I had been paying no attention at all...
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Coby 11 years ago

Originally Posted by PCG Tech

Anybody else up for referring to the Promo and Social folders as Spam #1 and Spam #2, respectively?

My point exactly!

Yes, the CURRENT subscribers who you (hopefully) have a relationship with may go looking for your emails...

maybe...

But what about the new person that just bought a product from you...

They don't run to check their email - instead they run to consume the awesome video course you created...

3 hours later - they have consumed the video course and are wore out from all the awesome knowledge you poured on them and go to bed...

Maybe they wake up and it's Saturday so they take the kids to the park and don't check their email all weekend...

Then around comes Monday and they have to go back to that stupid job - work all day - come home tired - eat and go to bed...

Repeat similar process for Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday...

Finally - Friday comes back around and they get some time to work on their internet business again...

Do you think this guy is going to remember you enough to think "oh yeah - I didn't get an email from him at purchase?"

Maybe - he might - I mean anything is possible right?

But - what if your email is in the promo tab, buried deep in there (and he might not even know the promo tab exists)...

Now reverse the scenario - instead of the "promo" tab - your email is in the "spam" tab...

Does it make a difference? I mean - people still check the spam tab. So they still might read your email...

But wouldn't it be easier if you could just put it right in their face - no digging - no effort, right there? Yes, of course! Humans love easy!

That's why they build McDonald's next to interstates and busy roads and not hidden behind a warehouse in some small town...

Location!

More eyes = more possible sales

Yes - there are businesses that are in "remote locations" that do okay - but how much better would they be if their potential customer base doubled or tripled?

There is a way to avoid the promo tab moving forward...

Make sure your emails don't say "via Aweber" 'via GetResponse" etc...

This thread will help...

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...i-thought.html

Cheers,
Coby
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DubDubDubDot

11 years ago

This is more advanced than the beginning of the end of email marketing. The true beginning came with the shift from email communications towards MySpace, Facebook, Twitter, Texting and so on.

I think Google's promotional tab was with the mobile shift in mind. It's 10x more annoying to receive spam (or promotional minded newsletters) on your phone than it is desktop.

I've been saying it for a few years..... scale back (or get out of) email marketing while you can still do it on your own terms. Email marketing has been dying a slow death for years and it can't be nursed back to health.

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HostGarou

11 years ago

I'm sure those who buy from you and those considering purchases want what you have. They still want to see your emails. They’ll come looking for you in the Promotions area. They may keep you there, or they may drag your email to the “Inbox” tab, where your future emails will land, right up front. This new update from Google is the top one!

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DonDiego

11 years ago

It's easy to say: "If people want to see your mail, they'll see".

It's fact, that revenue for email marketers dropped by at least 20%.

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Tom Busch

11 years ago

One day my mother said to me that she is not getting half of her email anymore. I was trying to figure out what the hell she was talking about, when it dawned on me that her email was going into the promotions tab. I fixed it for her. The point I'm trying to make is that if your niche caters to the elderly or people who are not very tech-savvy, there's a good chance that many of your members are not even aware of a promotions tab.

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JasonBennet

11 years ago

I am sure there will be solutions around it. The Internet Marketing game has been evolving and constantly changing but many marketers still survives. There is definitely a way out of this mess

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vendor

11 years ago

I just recently noticed the "Promotions" tab on Gmail.
Not doing any email marketing but i am a marketer and if i didn't notice it you can bet that most of the population will not notice it for sure.
Regarding those who say that the open rates are/will not be effected all i can say is wishful thinking at it's best and you can forget about people disabling the TAB in their GMAIL account , it is way too much work/time for the average Joe to spend on something he doesn't care about in the first place.
Sorry to be so negative but reading some of these posts it sounds more like dreamland and over the top optimism than reality.

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troy23

11 years ago

There's little point in looking for workarounds for this latest update because there aren't any. Nobody is interested in being told how to turn off their tabs or where to look for an email. It won't be long before the other email providers follow the Google lead. The best thing you can do is get out of email marketing or look for other ways to market your services.

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Martin Avis

11 years ago

Originally Posted by troy23

There's little point in looking for workarounds for this latest update because there aren't any. Nobody is interested in being told how to turn off their tabs or where to look for an email. It won't be long before the other email providers follow the Google lead. The best thing you can do is get out of email marketing or look for other ways to market your services.

I seem to have been told that email marketing was on its last legs ever since I started writing my newsletters in 2001. Funny that every year my income has gone up.

I sent out a special report to my readers yesterday and a good half of the replies I've had (it generated a LOT of replies) have been from gmail accounts. It seems those people are finding my emails without any bother!

The 'best thing' is not to quit like a loser as soon as you think things are getting tougher. The best thing is to write better emails, develop better relationships with your subscribers, treat your readers like intelligent humans rather than docile cash cows and approach your email marketing like the business it is.

Of course, that's the 'best way' and not the 'easy way'.

Nobody is interested in being told how to turn off their tabs or where to look for an email.

Says who? If the email is one they want to read and look forward to receiving, they'll be plenty interested.

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DubDubDubDot 11 years ago

People will bury their head in the sand right up until the very end.

Saw it on the XXX forums, the old home loan programs, the SEO guys and whatever else. Everything is roses right up until the for sale sign is in the front yard.

A few "naysayers" speak the truth in these situations, but they are drowned out by the delusional majority.
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Midnight Oil

11 years ago

Originally Posted by DonDiego

It's fact, that revenue for email marketers dropped by at least 20%.

Where does this "fact" come from?

Originally Posted by troy23

The best thing you can do is get out of email marketing or look for other ways to market your services.

I remember reading the same thing repeatedly on marketing boards back in the mid to late nineties, especially when AOL began aggressively filtering/blocking emails.

Then again when the CAN-SPAM Act came along.

Email marketing is still here and continues to grow. It's not going away anytime soon.

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marketmongoose

11 years ago

You can't blame Google on this, even if you create a movement to boycott their services that wont even hurt them. The thing is your receivers will look on the content on the mails you've sent them. No offense meant, and please do take what I'm going to say to you constructively. You need on the message you're sending them. If they'll receive something like what you've post (if your target are English People) they'll more like see it as a spam. So if you can cut some funds, hire an editor.

Best Regards,

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MKCookins

11 years ago

Email marketing is not going anywhere soon. The number 1 activity online -- is people checking the email inbox.

It was recently proven, that email still exceeds even Facebook, when trying to connect with your current customers.

As a few others have mentioned earlier... if people want to read your email's they will look for them and open them. That is not to say you should not make it easier for them.

When they first sign up to your list tell them how often you will mail them -- and make it bold and clear to highlight your emails as important so they show up in their inbox.

Continue adding massive value to your list -- and in return they will love you and reward you for doing so.

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BrianMcLeod

11 years ago

Originally Posted by jsmm

Goggle hates each and every one of us and they can care less about are business.

I don't even know you and, after reading this thread, I think I may hate you, too.

KIDDING! (mostly)

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dannygnenerate

11 years ago

Hi,

Hmmm, first and far most change is inevitable and expected, it'll seem that Google has done this to hurt the marketer but in reality they are a huge company who see's the opportunity of dividing these emails to benefit the gmail user. Meaning uncluttered inboxes. Believe me though, if they really want your content then they will find it regardless.

If your numbers have dropped then simple take the steps to alleviate that.

I have a post here on the Warrior Forum that could be helpful to you. We as marketers either adapt of or drown. Email is only one format to messages. Here take a look at this warrior forum post of mine and hopefully it'll be helpful and remember this...

Make it clear to educate the crowd you're marketing to. More experienced marketers already know where to find your content but a beginner may not, therefore guidance is needed.

Here you go:

Gmail Changes Has No Effect On Me

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Alex Blades

11 years ago

The beggining on the end of email marking

It is if you just throw your hands up.

I do not know what it is going to take for all of us to stick together and NOT Use Any Google service and to spread the word.

I for one am boycotting Google who is with me? NOT!!!!

You are paranoid dude. All you have to do is make sure to put a message on your success page to remind your subscribers to white list your emails, so they show up on the main tab.

When change comes you have to adapt. I have a friend who runs a multi-million dollar brick and mortar business. When the economy tanked he decided to diversify, he started manufacturing and selling plastic products. He went from selling $100k Hi-tech products to selling plastic products also.

Had he panicked like you, he would have went out of business. Instead his competitors went belly up, and now he is swamped with business.

When change comes, you have to adapt and diversify, if not, you will be left behind

Here is a picture of what you can do to help educate your subscribers about Google tabs...

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mrkitty

11 years ago

What is it that makes emails go into the promo section? Every email doesn't go there, so there has to be something associated with your emails that causes them to go there. Figure out what that is and you'll likely have a solution.

As for the folks claiming that people will search for your emails if they want to read them, get real. People have a million things going on in their lives, all of them almost certainly more important than any email you're sending them. They aren't waiting on the edge of their seat for your next email, no matter how great it is. People don't even remember to cancel subscriptions they're paying for. Ever heard the saying "out of sight out of mind"? If they don't see your email in the inbox, it's going to take them 5 seconds to forget all about you.

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John Atkins

11 years ago

Originally Posted by mrkitty

As for the folks claiming that people will search for your emails if they want to read them, get real. People have a million things going on in their lives, all of them almost certainly more important than any email you're sending them. They aren't waiting on the edge of their seat for your next email, no matter how great it is. People don't even remember to cancel subscriptions they're paying for. Ever heard the saying "out of sight out of mind"? If they don't see your email in the inbox, it's going to take them 5 seconds to forget all about you.

Exactly, but let them build castles in the sky.

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Coby

11 years ago

Originally Posted by mrkitty

What is it that makes emails go into the promo section? Every email doesn't go there, so there has to be something associated with your emails that causes them to go there. Figure out what that is and you'll likely have a solution.

If it's sent via a third party service - it shows up in the email header and will say "sent via Aweber"...

OR

The email user creates a customer filter telling Gmail to put (or not put) the email in the promo tab.

As for the folks claiming that people will search for your emails if they want to read them, get real. People have a million things going on in their lives, all of them almost certainly more important than any email you're sending them. They aren't waiting on the edge of their seat for your next email, no matter how great it is. People don't even remember to cancel subscriptions they're paying for. Ever heard the saying "out of sight out of mind"? If they don't see your email in the inbox, it's going to take them 5 seconds to forget all about you.

At least some folks gets it!

You'd think that it would be common sense that humans are lazy! :rolleyes:

I mean - heck - we can't even be bothered to type out whole words in text messages these day.

But w/e IDC lol

Cheers,
Coby

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Marian 11 years ago

Unfortunately we're losing on subscribers and sales with this latest Gmail "invention", because like it was already said... most people are too lazy to look into the promotions tab - right from the start - when they subscribe to your list.

We have to think about using more ways and options to get attention, via FB, Skype, G+, etc. It's not a lost game yet!

Marian
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samjaynz

11 years ago

I think the new gmail inbox is fantastic. Keeps crappy marketing messages away from my precious main inbox. People who send me good emails that wind up in promo... well I check for them by name anyway.

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dannygnenerate

11 years ago

Here's my solution to this problem, this is a very easy fix.

Email Marketing - How to deal with Google's new inbox change - YouTube

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carol951

11 years ago

I personally look for the emails that I want and I believe that my subscribers will do the same...

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Coby

11 years ago

I'm still laughing at everyone that says "people will look for your emails"...

They will look in the spam folder too - would you be bothered if your email landed their?

There is a solution to the promo tabs moving forward - stop using any service that does the following...

1.) Signs your email as sent "via xxx"
2.) Adds an unsubscribe header

Okay, Coby - but how?

Easy - host your own! This is 2013 - get with the times! Self-hosting is very simple and straight forward these days.

Good luck to everyone!

Cheers,
Coby

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Raydal

11 years ago

I'm wondering what all those services that will kill email would
do when email is dead since you need an email account to sign
up for them?

-Ray Edwards

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