paypal chargeback issues, who to blame?

11 years ago

I haven't had that experience, but as I understand the paypal system, they are not quick to change gears. I would give them a call every 10 days or so hoping to speed things (squeaky wheel syndrome), and just wait until they finish taking their sweet time, just keep in mind that you can go for a steak dinner some time in the future.

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Marketing Fool

11 years ago

Yeah paypal sucks...there's no way I would use them for large ticket items like that. Why not set up your own merchant account so this sort of nonsense doesn't happen in the future?

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TheContentAuthority

11 years ago

Bob,

Unfortunately you are probably at the mercy of Paypal here. It sounds like you have done all that you can. I have had both good experiences with Paypal and then some very frustrating ones. Sometimes their policies are better in theory than they are in practice.

Hope you get it worked out soon.

Best,

Shawn

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bob ross

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Marketing Fool

Yeah paypal sucks...there's no way I would use them for large ticket items like that. Why not set up your own merchant account so this sort of nonsense doesn't happen in the future?

I process a lot of larger ticket items and have never had a problem before. I do have a merchant account but paypal is just a lot easier to use for manually processed payments since I can just send an invoice with a CC payment button.

Originally Posted by TheContentAuthority

Bob,

Unfortunately you are probably at the mercy of Paypal here. It sounds like you have done all that you can. I have had both good experiences with Paypal and then some very frustrating ones. Sometimes their policies are better in theory than they are in practice.

Hope you get it worked out soon.

Best,

Shawn

thanks Shawn, it definitely blows.

One other thing I might add, the rep I spoke with today told me that if 80 days passes and I still haven't gotten my money, I may need to go after the buyers because they have not paid. (Yet they did pay, their credit card company's charged them as soon as they cancelled the chargebacks).

It's a good thing this isn't devastating to my business, because if this was someone who couldn't afford to deliver on the orders they'd be in a lot more agony.

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ContentWritingPhD

Banned 11 years ago

Bob, PayPal will still give its favor to the buyer even if they will tell you that they're fighting for your claim against the buyer's credit card information.

I am a service provider and I deal with 4-figure tickets. I experienced what you experienced.

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hustlinsmoke

11 years ago

Well I would blame Paypal.
Paypal is the reason I quit selling on ebay.
Too many ripoffs.
One guy bought a computer, a custom setup
Paid for it, then when he got it he immediately filed a charge back.
Paypal said thats fine told the guy to ship it back to me and kept the chargeback on me. They required nothing from the buyer to prove he shipped it and he didn't.

I won in the end, the buyer was a seller and I took care of that.

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Adie

11 years ago

Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke

Well I would blame Paypal.
Paypal is the reason I quit selling on ebay.
Too many ripoffs.
One guy bought a computer, a custom setup
Paid for it, then when he got it he immediately filed a charge back.
Paypal said thats fine told the guy to ship it back to me and kept the chargeback on me. They required nothing from the buyer to prove he shipped it and he didn't.

I won in the end, the buyer was a seller and I took care of that.

Did you purchased something from the buyer/seller and did the same? I'm just wondering...

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RobinInTexas 11 years ago

The bottom line is that you have to jump through the hoops perhaps several times, maybe even a follow up email or two on large payments to make sure the customers know what's going to be on their statement.

And if you run into a scammer you are going to be screwed in the end
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LilBlackDress 11 years ago

Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke

I won in the end, the buyer was a seller and I took care of that.

Do tell...what did you do?
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ToryBorysewicz

Banned 11 years ago

Would moving to Payza or other paypal alternatives help?

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Kay King

11 years ago

they are waiting to hear from their banks to resolve the initial chargeback

I don't see this as a Paypal problem. The banks will be slow to respond and it may be due to a Mastercard or Visa logo attached to the customer's card used. Those credit services have their own set of regulations.

Paypal isn't going to clear this without official word from the company used for payment. Paypal is a payment gateway and has no control over the accounts or credit cards your customers used to purchase.

PP received formal notification of a chargeback filed - they need the same type of notification when the chargeback is stopped/canceled. That means waiting for the banks to send the notifications.

Paypal may have no choice in the matter as there may be laws regulating how chargebacks are processed.

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Beverley Boorer

11 years ago

Might be a good idea to change the name on the statement or make sure your clients know what name to expect - tell them in an email as soon as they buy who the statement will be from.

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andaleem

11 years ago

I've heard some people complaining about paypal as well. I'm using it on my website and haven't had any problems. However, a friend of mine had $2,000 of erroneous charges to their paypal that took 3 weeks to be refunded. They also were charging me for a business account and gave me inaccurate information about using paypal with wordpress (the type of account I had). Stock photos: etsy.com/shop/theartistdesigner

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CyberAlien

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bob ross

I have sent affidavits from each client, statements from their banks showing the the cancelled reversal, as well as copies of their credit card statements showing everything has been paid.

PayPal isn't going to generally accept stuff like that from the seller. If they did, scammers would easily forge those documents whenever chargebacks were filed.

PayPal isn't going to do anything until they hear directly from the bank or credit card company - both of which can take a very long time to get in touch with PayPal.

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jessiem

11 years ago

I've experienced this long before and it was very frustrating. Lesson learned, I would no longer transact business using Paypal because the chargeback process is a pain the ***

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bob ross

I have two chargebacks in paypal right now, which were accidents on the customers behalf.

Each one is for about $1,000.

They didn't recognize the name on their statement so they filed chargebacks and both immediately recognized that they made a mistake.

They each called their banks immediately (next day) to cancel the chargebacks and have since paid everything on their end in full.

Paypal however is saying that they are waiting to hear from their banks to resolve the initial chargeback, and tell me it can take 80 days. I have sent affidavits from each client, statements from their banks showing the the cancelled reversal, as well as copies of their credit card statements showing everything has been paid.

I've called paypal 5 or 6 times over the last few weeks and they just keep telling me that the buyers credit card companies have up to 80 days to 'make their decision'.

Has anyone dealt with this nonsense before? I don't even know who to blame or how to get through to someone who can put 2 and 2 together so we get paid.

well, I GUESS you can blame YOURSELF or the customer! WHY? The customer didn't check! So THEY are at fault! YOU used paypal, and probably didn't even setup the part of the description they might have allowed you to change, so YOU didn't make it easy, so YOU are at fault!

So your customers are visa, mastercard and amex? Simply have them resend the info on their network. Unless THEY are the exchanges, they mean NOTHING to paypal.

REMEMBER, they are NOT paying you! They are EXCHANGING CREDIT! If THEY don't have the credit, they have none to give to you.

Steve

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vishwa

11 years ago

Actually PayPal Directly communicate with banks, So Sometimes Banks are taking few days to notify PayPal that the buyer who has claimed the charge back has withdraw it. Official Communication will take some days. So, Better you will wait for it, thats all you can do now.

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bob ross

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't see this as a Paypal problem. The banks will be slow to respond and it may be due to a Mastercard or Visa logo attached to the customer's card used. Those credit services have their own set of regulations.

Paypal isn't going to clear this without official word from the company used for payment. Paypal is a payment gateway and has no control over the accounts or credit cards your customers used to purchase.

PP received formal notification of a chargeback filed - they need the same type of notification when the chargeback is stopped/canceled. That means waiting for the banks to send the notifications.

Paypal may have no choice in the matter as there may be laws regulating how chargebacks are processed.

You're probably correct on all parts here.

Originally Posted by Beverley Boorer

Might be a good idea to change the name on the statement or make sure your clients know what name to expect - tell them in an email as soon as they buy who the statement will be from.

I tried, apparently paypal does not make those changes. One of the chargeback mistakes was due to not only not recognizing my company name, but that there was no phone number listed on their statement. Apparently paypal does not list phone numbers.

Originally Posted by Chase Watts

PayPal isn't going to generally accept stuff like that from the seller. If they did, scammers would easily forge those documents whenever chargebacks were filed.

PayPal isn't going to do anything until they hear directly from the bank or credit card company - both of which can take a very long time to get in touch with PayPal.

Right, but FFS I don't see why this process takes so long when all they have to do is communicate with each other. Of course they're very quick to yank the money away but agonizingly slow to tell them it's OK to take it back.

I just wish I could get both of them to communicate with each other faster.

Originally Posted by seasoned

well, I GUESS you can blame YOURSELF or the customer! WHY? The customer didn't check! So THEY are at fault! YOU used paypal, and probably didn't even setup the part of the description they might have allowed you to change, so YOU didn't make it easy, so YOU are at fault!

So your customers are visa, mastercard and amex? Simply have them resend the info on their network. Unless THEY are the exchanges, they mean NOTHING to paypal.

REMEMBER, they are NOT paying you! They are EXCHANGING CREDIT! If THEY don't have the credit, they have none to give to you.

Steve

Both customers actually asked me if they wanted to keep the chargebacks and instead send me a check, but I didn't want two valid $1,000+ chargebacks on my paypal history.

Now it really doesn't have anything to do with the buyers because they have been charged and since paid everything.

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Kay King 11 years ago

It's frustrating in the extreme. I get that. But it's also a lesson learned.

Marketers are bad about this issue and I've seen it many times in buying WSOs and other IM products. You need to create a trail the customer can follow and make sense of.

IMers get lazy. They sell under one name and the paypal account lists another name and the email followup may be a business name not associated with the first two. I've seen it many times. It can confuse a buyer and lead them to distrust the process or not recognize a charge they approved.

In Paypal you can add multiple email addresses to an account - on a sales receipt or during the sales process you can list any names associated with the sale so the customer can recognize the charge.
Pay attention to the details of your sales process and create continuity to keep buyers informed and protect yourself.

If you buy a product online from a recognized name brand - that brand name will appear on every step of the transaction process. If you buy a product through 2CheckOut you will have several notices that "your credit card will show a purchase through 2CO". It's a good practice to follow.

kay
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BrianMcLeod

11 years ago

Bob,

It's not Paypal dragging its feet, its the communication flow between Paypal (on your behalf) and the merchant bank.

Once a credit card chargeback is initiated there's a process that follows. Doesn't matter if the buyer says, "Ooops, my bad.." the process still takes its course at that point.

Once you've given Paypal your response(s) and documentation, it'll take a minimum of a few weeks maximum of about 2 months for the back and forth between them and the bank.

People here are often confused between the difference between an actual chargeback (through the credit card company) and a Paypal dispute over purchases made with PP funds.

A PP dispute can be resolved in a day or two. Chargebacks are different.

They require a written response and documentation and Paypal basically acts as your advocate in forwarding all responsive documents to the CC company.

Sounds like everything will work out in your favor eventually.

Your clients should be kissing your ass for this.

Brian

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thedanbrown

11 years ago

Sounds like typical paypal problems. Had $8000 frozen had to cancel the transaction and get the client to cut a check instead. That's the problem with PayPal they freeze money so liberally and their support is terrible.

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BrianMcLeod

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thedanbrown

Sounds like typical paypal problems. Had $8000 frozen had to cancel the transaction and get the client to cut a check instead. That's the problem with PayPal they freeze money so liberally and their support is terrible.

Bob's is a chargeback issue, not an PP account limitation (freezing) issue.

Conflating different processing problems is one of the reasons Warriors remained perpetually confused and terrified about Paypal.

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JohnyEnglish

11 years ago

Please leave paypal and start use other payment merchant account.. Eventhough you're right you can still lose your money.

Im talking alot with paypal staffs and they always think every payment will bring trouble.

If they told you 80 days you have to wait 80 days.. paypal has no mercy.

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Jordan Hunter

Banned 11 years ago

This seems to be a common issue with PayPal but remember that at anytime you could walk away with a 2k negative balance and they are left to try and get back that loss. Like others have suggested you should change the name that shows on your invoice so that others know what to expect and you don't wind up in this situation again. Just keep at PayPal and it will eventually right itself.

It's an annoying situation to be in and I hope everything works out for you.

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onegoodman

11 years ago

This would be a serious issue, you need to get in touch with clients and ask them to call the Banks as soon as possible.

If they don't paypal at a point or another will have to go with the dispute and you will not loose only your money, but you will be charged for each charge back ( since they were made by the bank and not a simple dispute between you and the user through PayPal

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Alex Blades

11 years ago

I agree with Kay King, it's not Paypal's fault. It's the buyers fault for filing the chargeback. I don't know how someone forgets a $1000 charge, but hey. Paypal has to wait for CC company to conclude their investigation, that's why they say wait 80 days.

All you can do is wait for the CC company also, to conclude their investigation.

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Tom Reed 11 years ago

Everyone hates chargebacks and they always cost you money, even when you win.

For high ticket items like this one, you should be hitting these folks with post sales auto responder messages and at least 2 of these need to inform them of the charge description they can expect to see on their cc statement.

And really, for a $1,000, you should be placing a thank you phone call to these customers.
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bob ross

10 years ago

Update: I got my money back from both chargebacks this week FINALLY.

$1125 and $975.

It is now 11/7 and one of the chargebacks was from a transaction in April and charged back in July. The other was roughly the same thing.

Lesson learned:

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure your clients accounting office knows to expect the charge and what your company name will be showing on the statement.

I also had a chargeback from a dentist happen recently that they didn't recognize my company name due to it being unintelligible on their statement. Fortunately my regular merchant account handled the chargeback reversal quickly unlike paypal with their 100+ day nightmare.

Remember these are not real chargebacks, these are situations where the customer realized the mistake and had the chargebacks reversed. It still takes ages to get the reversed chargebacks back into your account.

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paypal chargeback issues, who to blame?

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