29 replies
Alright guys, I am a writer. I had a client order multiple articles that came out to over $100. I wrote the articles and the client thanked me.

A week later I received a chargeback. I know it's not because of the quality because the client said he was happy with it and it is still on his site. Obviously the guy is just trying to rip me off. What should I do? Any help would be appreciated.
#chargebacks #paypal
  • Profile picture of the author serprider
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    • Originally Posted by serprider View Post

      You wont win a chargeback from a bank UNLESS the bank does not respond to paypals request or if you have a tracking number for the product. Take this from someone who does more than most a year in paypal transactions. PM me if you want more info.
      Your advise sounds discouraging, lacks of fact, and comes across just a tad cocky don't you think? The fact that you claim to "do" more than most a year, does not give your statement anymore merit.

      From looking at the OP situation, there's a good chance of recovering from a charge back if services were delivered and proof of communication can be provided which shows that in the correspondence, the customer was satisfied with the final product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe_Chuck
    Sorry to hear that. Did he just file a dispute? If you can show support that he received the product you shouldn't have a problem winning the dispute.

    Since he also thanked you for your work, I'm sure you will win with Paypal. Unfortunately your money is going to be tied up for a bit though while they resolve it. Don't let the scammer win though, fight it.

    Good luck,

    Joe
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe_Chuck
      Originally Posted by PC_Halo View Post

      Sorry to hear that. Did he just file a dispute? If you can show support that he received the product you shouldn't have a problem winning the dispute.

      Since he also thanked you for your work, I'm sure you will win with Paypal. Unfortunately your money is going to be tied up for a bit though while they resolve it. Don't let the scammer win though, fight it.

      Good luck,

      Joe
      following up.. i agree with the previous post, mine was related to a dispute within paypal
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    In effect, he has not paid for the articles and is using them. I would issue a DMCA to his host for copyright violation, since the copyright is yours until he pays for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author serryjw
      Suzanne you rock...I would send him an email before you do it telling & PayPal that you are going to do it...may save you time and aggravation. When I TT PP they said if it is not online the best way to deal with potential problems is issue an PP invoice. When he pays the invoice you're headaches are over...haven't tried it...any one know if this would work?
      ---------
      For me and all the noobs..How do you issue a DMCA? does it cost anything?
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      • Profile picture of the author Bellerine
        Originally Posted by serryjw View Post

        Suzanne you rock...I would send him an email before you do it telling & PayPal that you are going to do it...may save you time and aggravation. When I TT PP they said if it is not online the best way to deal with potential problems is issue an PP invoice. When he pays the invoice you're headaches are over...haven't tried it...any one know if this would work?
        ---------
        For me and all the noobs..How do you issue a DMCA? does it cost anything?
        It doesn't cost anything. Do a whois of his website to find out the host. Most big hosts have a preset form to file a DMCA, google the host and DMCA.

        Answer their questions stating your claim and proof. They'll check it out. If they find they are in violation, they'll give them 48 hours to remove it. If they do not, they shut down their site. Boom!
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        • Profile picture of the author Jtraits
          Originally Posted by Bellerine View Post

          It doesn't cost anything. Do a whois of his website to find out the host. Most big hosts have a preset form to file a DMCA, google the host and DMCA.

          Answer their questions stating your claim and proof. They'll check it out. If they find they are in violation, they'll give them 48 hours to remove it. If they do not, they shut down their site. Boom!
          That suggestion! xD Anyway, she is right.. fill in a complain and report it...
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    • Profile picture of the author articlesarthors
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      In effect, he has not paid for the articles and is using them. I would issue a DMCA to his host for copyright violation, since the copyright is yours until he pays for it.
      Ooh, your mean! But I really like the way you think, I had never thought of it that way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    File a dispute and give Paypal written proof (email, Skype text) that he received the articles and was happy with them. You are offering a service not a product. You performed the work to the client's satisfaction.

    Don't assume you won't win. I received a Paypal reversal of a chargeback (credit card) for a service provided. I sent them email proof of the guy's acceptance of my work.

    It will take a while for it to be resolved. Yes, the guy's CC company has final say. But you have a valid claim. Don't take this crap lying down.

    Good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author Vanilla Gorilla
    Awesome advice guys! Thiis was one of the worries I had whe beginning with paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author tolaskool
    Thats quite unfortunate but it happenes, if its a dispute just show paypal with screenshots that your the real deal and they will cancel it
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    • Profile picture of the author serprider
      Originally Posted by tolaskool View Post

      Thats quite unfortunate but it happenes, if its a dispute just show paypal with screenshots that your the real deal and they will cancel it
      A dispute and a chargeback are two different things. A chargeback is a claim that a customer OR a victim of fraud disputes to his or her bank. The bank refunds the customer the money and then sends notice to PayPal. PayPal holds the money in your account or in my case just informs me. If you are not selling a tangible item ie. vacuum cleaner, car parts or something that you can hold and ship then you do not qualify for seller protection and without 100% proof PayPal will not win the dispute with the bank. It is simple fraud prevention....

      Always good practice to mail the customer a certified receipt that requires signature if you live in the USA. That way if they dispute then you have the proof you need to win.

      But don't take advice from me I have no idea what I am talking about because I don't have 250000 posts.
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      • Profile picture of the author serryjw
        SERPRIDER..please #6..will the invoice work?
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        • Profile picture of the author serprider
          Originally Posted by serryjw View Post

          SERPRIDER..please #6..will the invoice work?
          For most chargebacks we send Invoice, Logs of IP address at sign-up, support tickets or live chat sessions along with any emails that the customer might have sent. The only time I have ever won a actual chargeback or unauthorized charge is from the bank not responding in the correct amount of time. Not trying to be "discouraging" but it is just the facts. As I said before PM me if you want to talk more.. There is alot of "mod" humpers in here that get a little booty hurt when someone "speaks their mind".
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  • Profile picture of the author vishwa
    If The customer does not file a charge back then just sent the proofs of your work to PayPal and escalate the issue to PayPal. It will faster the process because after escalating the issue PayPal starts investigating the issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author YourOnlyWriter
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post

    I had a client order multiple articles that came out to over $100.
    Vanilla, you are still lucky to have been just scammed $100.
    Why did I say so?
    I was in your shoe just last year and we're talking about nearly $2,500.00 USD.
    I had this seemingly trust-worthy and friendly French in the beginning.
    He was like ordering in $100s, then it came to the range of $200s and $300s worth of articles and blog posts.

    And here goes the drama.
    One morning, this French opened up to him saying someone stole his credit card.
    So, me, the fool, even advised him about filing a chargeback case to his credit card company, not to realize that that's indeed his plan and I am his victim.

    Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post

    I had a client order multiple articles that came out to over $100. Obviously the guy is just trying to rip me off. What should I do?
    Vanilla, this story I told above isn't just the first and the last chargeback case I will be getting in this online business. There'll be plenty I tell you that. Not because I don't provide quality work but it's simply because some people are trying to rip-off people whenever possible.

    I haven't won any single chargeback case even if I sent PayPal too many files (proofs) starting from Skype chat logs, email exchanges (screenshots) and the buyer's IP address captured from my order details form that they fill-out after checking out an order.

    For this story I told above, I even called PayPal and spoke to one of the supervisors for over 30 minutes only to be told kindly that I should learn how to stomach it. Oh yeah, I swallowed the fact that my $2,500.00 is gone.

    When it's a chargeback, although I know I won't win the case unless a get a hold of the buyer's physical signature, I know I won't won. But it does not stop me from writing a very long complaint against the bogus buyer/scammer to PayPal for record purposes as if I will be winning the case still.

    If and when a scammer files a chargeback case, do your best to narrate a story and send all proofs to PayPay and don't just accept your fate of losing the money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanilla Gorilla
      Originally Posted by YourOnlyWriter View Post

      Vanilla, you are still lucky to have been just scammed $100.
      Why did I say so?
      I was in your shoe just last year and we're talking about nearly $2,500.00 USD.
      I had this seemingly trust-worthy and friendly French in the beginning.
      He was like ordering in $100s, then it came to the range of $200s and $300s worth of articles and blog posts.

      And here goes the drama.
      One morning, this French opened up to him saying someone stole his credit card.
      So, me, the fool, even advised him about filing a chargeback case to his credit card company, not to realize that that's indeed his plan and I am his victim.



      Vanilla, this story I told above isn't just the first and the last chargeback case I will be getting in this online business. There'll be plenty I tell you that. Not because I don't provide quality work but it's simply because some people are trying to rip-off people whenever possible.

      I haven't won any single chargeback case even if I sent PayPal too many files (proofs) starting from Skype chat logs, email exchanges (screenshots) and the buyer's IP address captured from my order details form that they fill-out after checking out an order.

      For this story I told above, I even called PayPal and spoke to one of the supervisors for over 30 minutes only to be told kindly that I should learn how to stomach it. Oh yeah, I swallowed the fact that my $2,500.00 is gone.

      When it's a chargeback, although I know I won't win the case unless a get a hold of the buyer's physical signature, I know I won't won. But it does not stop me from writing a very long complaint against the bogus buyer/scammer to PayPal for record purposes as if I will be winning the case still.

      If and when a scammer files a chargeback case, do your best to narrate a story and send all proofs to PayPay and don't just accept your fate of losing the money.
      Dang. It's not so much the money that annoyed me, it's the fact that MY articles are sitting on his site right now attracting readers. I sent about 11 screenshots to paypal's resolution center and figure I have a reasonable shot. We'll see what happens I guess.
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      • Profile picture of the author YourOnlyWriter
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post

        Dang. It's not so much the money that annoyed me, it's the fact that MY articles are sitting on his site right now attracting readers. I sent about 11 screenshots to paypal's resolution center and figure I have a reasonable shot. We'll see what happens I guess.
        I understand, mate. I'm your ally.
        But it's not that I want you to lose hope.
        In that $2,500 USD scam I had, I spent 35 minutes on the phone with PayPal (an agent and a supervisor), I sent a very long explanation (it won't even fit in PayPal's textbox, ha,ha!) and I attached every single correspondence I had with that pesky (sorry for my French) scammer.

        and then...
        [drum rolls please]

        PayPal said:
        We are sorry. Be happy. Life is beautiful. [That's not the exact message, of course. But, at least, you got the idea].

        We're both writers. Let's just focus on getting more fantastic and honest clients.
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        • Profile picture of the author serprider
          Originally Posted by YourOnlyWriter View Post

          I understand, mate. I'm your ally.
          But it's not that I want you to lose hope.
          In that $2,500 USD scam I had, I spent 35 minutes on the phone with PayPal (an agent and a supervisor), I sent a very long explanation (it won't even fit in PayPal's textbox, ha,ha!) and I attached every single correspondence I had with that pesky (sorry for my French) scammer.

          and then...
          [drum rolls please]

          PayPal said:
          We are sorry. Be happy. Life is beautiful. [That's not the exact message, of course. But, at least, you got the idea].

          We're both writers. Let's just focus on getting more fantastic and honest clients.
          My personal company was charged back over 3 grand on payments from one customer spanning over 5 months. My paypal support team pretty much told me to suck it up and take the hit. This is why I call verify anything over $80 and now we send secured postage with an invoice with all of the work that was completed or services rendered. That 9 times out of 10 protects us from chargebacks if the invoice was signed for by the purchaser at the door. Just a small step to take in the future
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          • Profile picture of the author Vanilla Gorilla
            Originally Posted by serprider View Post

            My personal company was charged back over 3 grand on payments from one customer spanning over 5 months. My paypal support team pretty much told me to suck it up and take the hit. This is why I call verify anything over $80 and now we send secured postage with an invoice with all of the work that was completed or services rendered. That 9 times out of 10 protects us from chargebacks if the invoice was signed for by the purchaser at the door. Just a small step to take in the future
            Ouch. I used to run an ecommerce store that received a bunch of fishy emails asking to purchase several thousand worth of goods. It was extremely odd that he had no idea of what I sold, he just asked me for suggestions and said he would pay whatever the cost. Of course I googled the email and it showed up on a list of scammers. I even called him out on it....he never replied back
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post

    Alright guys, I am a writer. I had a client order multiple articles that came out to over $100. I wrote the articles and the client thanked me.

    A week later I received a chargeback. I know it's not because of the quality because the client said he was happy with it and it is still on his site. Obviously the guy is just trying to rip me off. What should I do? Any help would be appreciated.
    It's digital goods and they were delivered - PayPal should refuse the Chargeback according to their own policy.
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    • Profile picture of the author YourOnlyWriter
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      It's digital goods and they were delivered - PayPal should refuse the Chargeback according to their own policy.
      Hi Ron, I don't mean to disagree agreeably but PayPal only protects the seller for PayPal disputes and not for chargebacks.

      Disputes vs. Chargebacks
      These are two different beasts in the same forest.
      If only PayPal had a the gall to fight for the seller against the buyer's credit card company, I would have banked nearly $5,000 to $10,000 from all those scammy chargebacks I got since 2005.
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      • Profile picture of the author ronrule
        Originally Posted by YourOnlyWriter View Post

        Hi Ron, I don't mean to disagree agreeably but PayPal only protects the seller for PayPal disputes and not for chargebacks.

        Disputes vs. Chargebacks
        These are two different beasts in the same forest.
        If only PayPal had a the gall to fight for the seller against the buyer's credit card company, I would have banked nearly $5,000 to $10,000 from all those scammy chargebacks I got since 2005.
        Ah, yeah I understand where you're coming from - a lot of people use those terms interchangeably here, so that was my mistake. Chargebacks are a B and you're right, there isn't much you can do.

        The credit card companies aren't interested in protecting sellers because there's more profit in protecting their buyers. I wrote an article for Entrepreneur about this a few years ago ... the banks actually make more money on chargebacks than most legitimate sales. If you sell a $100 product to a person who pays with a credit card with a 10% interest rate, it would take the bank an entire year of that buyer making the minimum payment just to make $10. But if it's "fraudulent", they take the money back from the merchant bank plus a $25 chargeback fee, netting them $25 right now. In the end, the credit card provider makes money, the merchant provider is revenue-neutral, and the seller is out the merchandise, sale, and a $25 fee.
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        • Profile picture of the author YourOnlyWriter
          Banned
          Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

          Ah, yeah I understand where you're coming from - a lot of people use those terms interchangeably here, so that was my mistake. Chargebacks are a B and you're right, there isn't much you can do.

          The credit card companies aren't interested in protecting sellers because there's more profit in protecting their buyers. I wrote an article for Entrepreneur about this a few years ago ... the banks actually make more money on chargebacks than most legitimate sales. If you sell a $100 product to a person who pays with a credit card with a 10% interest rate, it would take the bank an entire year of that buyer making the minimum payment just to make $10. But if it's "fraudulent", they take the money back from the merchant bank plus a $25 chargeback fee, netting them $25 right now. In the end, the credit card provider makes money, the merchant provider is revenue-neutral, and the seller is out the merchandise, sale, and a $25 fee.
          That's okay, Ron.
          I don't mean to show who's right or wrong. We're all into this. We're all online earners, after all.

          We can only do so much but do some preventive measures.
          For example, since it's been a habit to establish rapport with my prospective buyers, I professionally yet friendly ask where are they based and their full name (which I don't disclose to anyone). Then, when they pay, I cross-check the information they gave to me from the PayPal payment receipt I get when they check-out their order. If I notice any mismatching information, such as the name or the shipping address, I confirm it with the client in such a way that he or she won't feel that I feel suspicious about him or her already.

          Gladly, this preventive measure of mine works well for me.
          I'm happy I have trustworthy and returning clients that make my online business alive.
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  • Profile picture of the author lowelly
    Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post

    Alright guys, I am a writer. I had a client order multiple articles that came out to over $100. I wrote the articles and the client thanked me.

    A week later I received a chargeback. I know it's not because of the quality because the client said he was happy with it and it is still on his site. Obviously the guy is just trying to rip me off. What should I do? Any help would be appreciated.
    I went through the same thing and sent the client's emails to PayPal. It took about one week, exchanged several emails and waited for feedback, but I finally got my money back. I hate it when stuff like this happens. Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author JessicaLee
    Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post

    Alright guys, I am a writer. I had a client order multiple articles that came out to over $100. I wrote the articles and the client thanked me.

    A week later I received a chargeback. I know it's not because of the quality because the client said he was happy with it and it is still on his site. Obviously the guy is just trying to rip me off. What should I do? Any help would be appreciated.
    Man. I'm a writer too. I never thought about something like this happening. And I even know what chargebacks are. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

    How have things progressed? Have you heard anything from PayPal? If you don't win with PayPal, will you go after the client for copyright infringement? That's a good idea. I've never thought of that before either. You won't get your money back, but at least you will get your "property."
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  • Profile picture of the author misshang
    Hello, I am with dealing this with copyrights too. Write him/her a mail that it's illegal to use unpaid stuff on his sites now that he charged back, and told him now that he has published he has INFRINGED your rights if not paid.

    Ask him whether he wants to pay the money to be entitled to it, or he prefers an infringement compensation to you. Tell him you have saved the screen shoot of each page of infringement(and you really have to do that) and wait for his/her response, if he wants to pay, ask him/her to cancel the chargeback ond disputes and save youself from dealing with those craps.

    I understand this, because once I ghostwrote for a famous researcher in my country, I finished 150,000 words within a month (yes, it's slavery) and he didn't pay. He told me he would pay when the books published and sold and he got the loyalties because this is the CUSTOM. I got paid within 48 hours after issued him the mail, BTW, don't forget to give him a due time like 74 working hours.
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  • Profile picture of the author AffiliateWaves
    Creating proper invoice on paypal is a good solution to avoid such problems.As a freelancer i have also faced similar problems earlier.In case of online services you cannot show valid proof of work every time and they can cheat you easily.
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    • Profile picture of the author wordwizard
      Originally Posted by misshang View Post

      Hello, I am with dealing this with copyrights too. Write him/her a mail that it's illegal to use unpaid stuff on his sites now that he charged back, and told him now that he has published he has INFRINGED your rights if not paid.

      Ask him whether he wants to pay the money to be entitled to it, or he prefers an infringement compensation to you. Tell him you have saved the screen shoot of each page of infringement(and you really have to do that) and wait for his/her response, if he wants to pay, ask him/her to cancel the chargeback ond disputes and save youself from dealing with those craps.

      I understand this, because once I ghostwrote for a famous researcher in my country, I finished 150,000 words within a month (yes, it's slavery) and he didn't pay. He told me he would pay when the books published and sold and he got the loyalties because this is the CUSTOM. I got paid within 48 hours after issued him the mail, BTW, don't forget to give him a due time like 74 working hours.
      Good for you, Misshang! Thanks for sharing your experience and the tip.
      I'm glad you got paid!
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