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Selling "Notes" to Popular IM Products on Fiverr?

by ashloren
12 replies
I just stumbled upon a level 2 seller on Fiverr who only sells gigs for their "notes" on popular and expensive IM info products, such as those put out by Frank Kern.

What are your thoughts on this, warriors? Is this ethical? How can someone's notes provide value without just giving away the information from the high ticket products using their own words...?

I guess I don't see anything wrong with this to be honest. I'm just curious what others think about this type of method...
#fiverr #notes #popular #products #selling
  • Profile picture of the author hometutor
    Depending on the information in the notes it could be a copyright violation.

    Rick
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      Copying & pasting significant amounts of actual text from an info product, with intent to profit from it, is obviously copyright infringement ("fair use" definitely wouldn't apply in that case). But summarizing a book in your own words and writing style is, generally speaking, not copyright infringement (many legit businesses do that, such as Cliff's Notes).

      The real question is... where do you draw the line between those two extremes?

      I don't know the answer to that, but from what I've heard about copyright infringement lawsuits, it often boils down to how the judge & jury feel about each individual case. It's a grey area, to be sure.

      So all I can say is... if you are considering doing this as a business venture, it would be very wise to consult with an intellectual property attorney before you get started, to make sure that you aren't setting yourself up for a bunch of legal worries in the long run.

      Me personally, I wouldn't touch that business model with a ten foot pole. Not only is it risky from a legal perspective, but you also have to take into consideration the potential "ill will" that you'll be creating with the authors who's work you're "summarizing" and selling for a fraction of the price of their own product.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Brandon has a point. Where do you draw the line between your own content and a "derivative work"?

        If you look at Cliff's notes, they often don't use large chunks of text. There's a difference between "in chapter 2, Author invokes the symbolism of blah, blah, blah", which is an interpretation, and "here's the step by step process from Module 2 of [Course Name]" which would likely be a derivative work.

        And as he says, it's sleazy and I wouldn't touch it with his ten foot pole...
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        • Profile picture of the author Steve B
          Ashley,

          If this is the lady from Bulgaria you're referencing, I think it's pretty obvious, at least in my opinion, that she does not have permission from the sellers of the products she's exploiting.

          Why would it be in the best interest of these superstar marketers to allow a vendor on Fiverr to offer a summary of their expensive product? I can't think of a possible reason.

          So the question becomes, is she infringing on trademarks and copyrights by creating these gigs that summarize content?

          I can tell you that the images she is using to advertise her gigs look like bad screen shots in some cases. That, in my opinion, is just one sign that she's infringing. She's also advertising the exact product names and in most cases including pictures of the superstars. Again, I'm guessing that she is trespassing without permission.

          The fact that she lives in Bulgaria may be why she continues to sell gigs. No slight meant to Bulgarians, but my guess is that it may be difficult to prosecute for trademark or copyright violations.

          Of course, I could be wrong in all this but the case for others doing this same business model, without specific permission, seems pretty flimsy to me.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

    Is this ethical?
    I don't know, Ash ... the thing is, you probably can't tell in any individual case whether it's ethical or not, without having the notes and seeing the entire original content? Which nobody's likely to do?

    My guess is that sometimes it's ethical and other times it's probably not. And to a skepchick like me, who's admittedly far more sensitive than most people are to possibilities of breaching copyrights (partly because I'm always having my content stolen but I'm never the thief!), that in turn suggests that probably many might not be ethical at all?

    Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

    I'm just curious what others think about this type of method...
    I don't know - my overall feeling is that it's perhaps a question that can only really be answered on an individual, case-by-case basis, which is obviously unrealistically impracticable. I admit I don't instinctively have a good feeling about it, overall, though.
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  • Profile picture of the author ashloren
    Yeah, I did notice that she was not from the US. Maybe that makes it easier for her to do what she is doing.

    What I find most interesting is that I discovered her Fiverr gig after simply doing a Google search for "Frank Kern." Her gig was featured in a Google AD at the bottom of the page which took me to her Fiverr gig. Who is paying for the ad, Fiverr?? I was surprised by that.
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  • Profile picture of the author tritrain
    If Fiverr is paying for that ad then it seems like an endorsement from Fiverr. It seems like lawsuit material there.

    Good thing the founder of Fiverr is a former attorney...
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  • Profile picture of the author ashloren
    Yeah, I would be surprised to learn that Fiverr is paying for an ad to a gig like that, even if the seller has a 95% rating and has sold a ton of gigs, which they appear to have done.

    Seems a little strange to me, but whatever I guess!
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Personally, I don't think it ethical without permission from the author.

    Legally, isn't the boiler plate language usually something like "no part of this work can be reproduced for other than personal use without express written permission from the author..."

    Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
    A couple of things about the respectable educational summaries:

    (a) They often (although not always) deal with public domain works

    (b) they are IMHO not generally usable without the original work

    (c) They are IMHO more than a summary, they are a critique, analysis, etc so highly transformative

    Compare the criteria for fair use Fair use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    1 the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
    2 the nature of the copyrighted work;
    3 the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
    4 the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

    I think they are generally on pretty strong ground, because of (b) and (c) on 1 Purpose/character, and 4 effect on the Market. They are only use short quotes, which strengthens their position on 3 too.

    Ianal of course.

    The other thing I was going to say about the summary Market in general - there have been lawsuits about summaries, etc. Remember that case about the guide to the Harry potter universe?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      I think it would be interesting to ask Frank Kern, Eben Pagan, Ali Brown, Brendon Burchard, Dan Kennedy, and Jay Abraham what they thought about this Fiverr vendor's gigs.

      I have a pretty good suspicion what they would say.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    Here are some good threads discussing this:

    Can I sell book summary-- like Cliff Notes or Monarch Notes-- without the author or publisher's permission? - Avvo.com

    Publishing a 50 page summary of a textbook? - law cliff notes | Ask MetaFilter

    Does Cliff Notes infringe on the copyrights owned by F. Scott Fitzgerald's estate?

    The best response I see is:

    The copyright law's "fair use doctrine" provides, under some circumstances, the opportunity for others to use a limited amount of a copyrighted work without the copyright holder's permission. What is looked at in fair use is the purpose of the use, the nature of the work being used, the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the whole of the work, and the effect of the use on the market and value of the work.

    Unfortunately, fair use is determined at the court level after an infringement suit has been filed by a copyright holder, and there is no set formula to go by as to what is fair and what isn't. The greater the amount of the work "borrowed," the less likely a court would be to find the use fair, although even using a small but vital part of a copyrighted work can be found infringing.

    Proper attribution and disclaimers cannot make a use a fair use and will not prevent a lawsuit, which is why those who intend to use material from another's copyrighted work will either get permission (which is highly recommended) or will take out liability insurance enough to cover the lawsuits that may follow unauthorized uses.

    Cliffs Notes, Spark Notes, Einstein's Notes, A-Plus Notes, Coles Notes - all could be subject to a suit by a copyright holder. Most of the aforementioned "Notes," however, tend to concentrate on discussing and summarizing or condensing old classics, many of which, like Candide, are in the public domain. Public domain materials can be used freely (although there are a few caveats about using public domain materials, as well).

    There have been lawsuits filed against and by "Notes" in the past. Cliffs Notes sued Spy Notes, for instance, over Spy's use of a Cliffs Notes format with its parody of lesser-known and not real terrific novels. Cliffs lost. And A-Plus Notes was sued (but the case was rejected by the courts). And a Florida professor sued over the use of his lecture notes in a Cliffs-Notes-style publication marketed for sale to students.
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