Why Is The Money Never In The List??

28 replies
"Oh why, why is the money NEVER in the list no matter how hard I try?!"

The money is in the list, the money is in the list, the money is in the ___?

If you've been around the online sphere of marketing for a long time, you're going to hear these phrases - heck, you might even completely believe it in your heart. But hear me out...

The money is NOT in the list...

If $$$ was in the list, anyone could go out from a random list vendor or email seller, and then whip up an email offer, and become a millionaire overnight.

If $$$ was in the list, you could build a random list of prospects and then repetitively pump them with "ad swaps" and then profit in the LONG-run.

If $$$ was in the list, you could just trick targeted people into a list with indirect techniques and expect to profit from them.

The problem with this advice is not that it is completely wrong. The problem is that most people take it literally.

It's not the SIZE of the list, but your RELATIONSHIP with these people. It's all about the VALUE you provide to people!

You see, value is a very subjective thing. It can mean a lot of things, such as...
  • Promoting a product that is of very high quality
  • Lowering the "free line": Giving out nuggets of wisdom for free
  • Letting people experience results even before they purchase any products from you

Let's face it: Many "marketers" become more and more desensitized as they hide behind their computers.

In a recent book, there has been a term coined as "growth hacker", a person who looks at metrics and conversion rates and mathematically promotes growth.

There's nothing wrong with tracking your business. It should be done, but it should never be the BASIS of your marketing. Tracking and tweaking is like a journalistic record of whatever you have done and tried. Whatever test is statistically significant will be your current "control", and you'll come up with more and more ways and ideas to beat that control.

What I'm saying is, marketing should also come from the heart.

I like to think of it this way: Your income is directly proportional to the amount of value that you are able to effectively deliver to your market. The more value you are able to provide, the more money you make!

EVERY single being on your list is a human being.

They aren't bots or computers without a brain or heart. They're holding in dreams, frustrations, hopes and fears. Learn how to empathize with these people, and your business will run forever.

Every single message that you send out should communicate that empathy.

While "blasting" your list with random offers might work in the short-run, eventually, these prospects get tired out - and they'd rarely refer other people onto your list. That's one viral strategy down.

Some might argue that there is the "moving parade" - where new crowds of people will continuously join your list, and you'll just continue to promote to this new segment. And I personally think that you've got it topsy-turvy.

You want to get your new segments to YOUR offers - so that you can lock them in your front-end product buyer's list, and then upsell them on the backend. If they do not buy, continuously, it's obvious that they are not interested in your solutions, and you are free to send related offers, or construct a different front-end.

So next time you look at your email list, don't look at them as pure numbers and potential profit.

Create a "customer avatar" - a representative of the commonalities found in most of your customers. What they like, what they know and what they trust. Their hopes, dreams, fears. Boil them all to one person, and talk to just that one person.

Hope warriors can chip in on this.

Best wishes,
James Fame

P.S. The money is in the VALUE you provide to a list!
#list #money
  • This is why so many people end up building lists of tens of thousands of potential customers and can't monetize them. They then start selling solo ads instead of using the massive leverage available. It's kind of like a garden-you need to take care of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marian
      Originally Posted by Long Beach Nathan View Post

      This is why so many people end up building lists of tens of thousands of potential customers and can't monetize them. They then start selling solo ads instead of using the massive leverage available. It's kind of like a garden-you need to take care of it.
      Nicely put! No wonder some of the big "gurus" has open rates like 1-3%... even though they have 100,000s of subs.

      Marian
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      • Profile picture of the author celente
        Originally Posted by Marian View Post

        Nicely put! No wonder some of the big "gurus" has open rates like 1-3%... even though they have 100,000s of subs.

        Marian
        yes and these dummies are teaching novices as well, so imagine a novice on the receving end of this.

        For me listbuilding changed my life, and my business, its funny When I started I had a list of 912 subscribers in a well dominated niche, but I did very well, cause I use to help them, give them videos and do the hard yards before I plugged them.

        And I was one of the ones years ago who use to come to this forum and think list building did not work. I can tell you with those 912 subscribers, I was able to do my own $18,400 launch with these guys. Yes it was hard work, but it paid off.

        The money is in the relationship, and curiosity you have with your list. There is no doubt about it.
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        • Profile picture of the author MarketMaster13
          I may agree with you to some extend money is not in the list but it all depend on individual efforts,the strategies employed and the niche.
          Therefore money can be on the list.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Your absolutely right. I am prone to say the money is in the list but it is not.

    The money is in the subject line and the email. You just have to have the list to get it to them is all.

    Hope I cleared that up for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author ddev
    Making money with a list it's not for everyone (a personal thought).

    You have to establish a relationship and many times it's really hard for people to remember who you're (Identification). Frequency may help for that (something that you can get through a membership site for example).
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    • Profile picture of the author Kingshouse
      Without splitting hairs here the money is in the list but just not the way it has been portrayed by most marketers.

      You build a list to get together a band of people interested in what you have to offer then you need to find out from them what they need help with...and create or source it for them.

      The money is in the list mantra often leaves this out and so people just build massive lists and then send 'buy me' 'buy me' emails to their list until people unsubscribe in droves. Basically people then see you as just out for their money.

      People who make it with a list as most here have pointed out do so by nurturing their list.

      Personally I think some marketers build a list and then discover that the money is in the list (if you nurture it) but they have no real desire to spend time helping their list so they just send them affiliate promos even if they are irrelevant.

      I think there has to be a healthy understanding of the mantra 'the money is in the list'. Probably it should go something like 'the money is in the list ...if you build a relationship with it, find out what it wants and help to achieve it'.

      Cheerio

      Will D
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      • Profile picture of the author ChloeCKimberley
        I truly believe in relationship building through emails. The problem with sending people to clicks, is that it involves another action. It might not provide a furthering of agenda towards the sale.

        I know in copywriting we always say that each sentence only has one purpose: to bring the person to the next line. But that's really just important because of the need to sustain attention.

        The AIDA model also says that apart from attention, you need interest, desire and action. The problem with just using open rates and all that is that you lack that Like Know Trust factor to get the prospect to believe your pitch at all!

        110% thumbs up to the OP.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fazal Mayar
    If you present you and your business well at the beginning of your autoresponder series, chances are big you will have good relationship with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author ParkerArrow
    ^ All good points! The excellent OP reminds me of an article I recently read. It said that conveying positive emotional pitch converted almost twice as often as conveying neutral or negative emotional pitch.

    You can't really manufacture positive responses, though. I mean, you can set up all the factors but ultimately you have to strike a meaningful chord in your customers.

    You can take it too far; the video in this article is an example; sure, people are having fun, but you could also see where the thing could seem contrived - if there's no genuine customer response or connection with their need.


    So one question is, how do you get a positive emotional reaction from your prospect?
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  • Profile picture of the author misterkailo
    I had much better success building up the list organically than buying solo ads or any other paid methods. They seem a lot more responsive
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  • Profile picture of the author serbyy2
    the money is never in the list...is in the traffic that goes to the list
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  • Profile picture of the author Robin Blinds
    Having a list is greater than not having a list
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    Traffic + Conversions = $$$$

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  • The best thing is to build a list for a specific niche, but a niche in niche in niche things. And then solo ads for 100clicks/$200. XD
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  • Profile picture of the author troy23
    I don't think there's any money in list building for the average marketer....not that there ever was.
    You can make the odd sale here and there if your subscribers are active.
    It's human nature to stop reading and unsubscribe from the many pointless emails they get. If you are a big name marketer then list retention is going to be high. For most people it will never work, no matter how much value you feel you may be giving. There are much better ways of marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheNewGuy2010
    No matter how you flip or say it......

    The money is in the list. Everyone can put their own twist and turn on it but the money IS in the list.
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    Gone Fishing....
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  • Profile picture of the author DanMcMor
    size matters too,
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      The money is in the list, but most marketers don't know how to extract it.

      For some of them, it's like doing surgery with a dull machete.

      They forget that at the other end of that email is a living, breathing human trying to accomplish something. All they see is a bunch of wallets.

      So they hack at their lists like they're trying to get through the jungle. A few subscribers holler spam or unsubscribe, but most just learn to ignore that irritating buzzing noise in their inbox.

      Others go way too far the other way. They try to be their subscribers' bestest buddy, always giving and showing concern and telling them how much he just wants to be their friend. Then they hit them with a hard sales pitch. The result is often a bewildered, hurt thread that in essence says "I give and I give and I give, and this is the thanks I get" because subscribers don't buy, they just get offended.

      Better to find a balance. Use the "Godfather" approach...

      "I will do this thing for you. Some day, I will ask you for a favor, for you to do something for me..."
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  • Profile picture of the author fthomas137
    I've been very blessed to work with large lists and there's a fine balance between relationship and irrelevance. Yes, you need to nurture those folks on the list with great information, videos, audios, whatever - as long as it is relevant to the the reason you have people signing up to your list in the first place! So many marketers will send irrelevant information about how cute their daughter is, or how funny their cat is.

    My question is, do you really care? Let's be honest about this.

    In all honesty if you were that interested in my underage daughter, I'd find that a bit creepy.

    Keep your information relevant and give, give, give to your list. If you build a strong relationship with your list, it is very possible to sell very well to it. I always thought that $1/per person / month on your list was awesome.

    In some instances and lists, we are up to $5 / per person / month! And it all comes back to building a relationship on the common interest that was built when those people said, 'yes please' to becoming part of that list in the first place.

    Do we sell to our lists? You bet we do, but not hard core. Remember, our correspondence sent to the list is designed always as carefully worded sales letters. Even when we give, we give as part of a sale.

    Do people unsubscribe? You bet. There's no stopping that. But do people buy who are interested? You bet!

    By the way John, you hit the nail on the head too!
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      The money is in a persons value.

      There's little money in any list unless a relationship is built and the relationship is till only a proxy to the money.

      Logic is a lot more effective than cute and tidy lines of hearsay that bear no context.
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  • Profile picture of the author danlew
    This is true. No matter how big is our list, there will be no money on it. We really need to do something that can attract our own subscribers in order to see the result that we are expecting.
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  • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
    Spending time to provide real VALUE first can produce ten times
    the results than just looking to burn and churn your lists.

    Great post.

    Hope others see the value in this.

    It all comes down to sharing what you know, presenting it in a way that
    allows others to understand it and then focusing on the KLT formula...

    ...KNOW, LIKE, TRUST!!!

    They must first get to know you, then trust you and then like you enough
    to want you to be able to help them further.

    All the best
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  • Profile picture of the author imguru
    Of course it's all about the relationship you develop and the value you provide. Nothing else
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    • Profile picture of the author Kingshouse
      The money is in the list.

      Thing is which list are we referring to here.

      Is it the list you just built and started firing off affiliate offers to or the one you made the effort too build a relationship with.

      We can debate this all we want, and agree and disagree but the point is you really have to ask yourself what you are building a list for. To slam with affiliate promos or to find out what your subscribers really want, help them get it and they will happily pay you for it.

      Traffic helps you build a list but traffic does not convert itself. Hint- this is one reason you build a list.

      List building is not just about numbers, you need to CONVERT the traffic. That conversion is better done by relating to the people on your list.

      Build a list. Build a relationship. Sell to your list. Make money.

      I hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    James!

    To a lot of people, this might seem like a subtle shift of mindset.

    But when you really take the time to fully understand the message you revealed so elequently, it'll make the difference between making an impact...

    ...and completely failing at IM.... for a LOT of people.

    May I add (at least from my perspective

    The need to constantly GIVE VALUE comes from the deep, intense, impossible-to-ignore desire to genuinely HELP the ideal customer.

    It's this overwhelming NEED that makes entreprneurs dig deep down to provide REAL, life-changing, original information.

    Anyway...

    Much appreciation for the thread and may the energy you've put out come back 100X.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    I think when marketers first started saying "The Money Is In The List" they figured everyone was smart enough to realize the list has to be targeted and you actually have to send them information they will read.

    Oh how they where wrong...

    And now when someone says "The money is not in the list... it's in the relationship to that list" Isn't that painfully obvious? The money IS in the list... the right kind of list!!!

    People tend to take things so literally they fear having to think for themselves. (or just lazy) ...
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    • Profile picture of the author James Fame
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      People tend to take things so literally they fear having to think for themselves. (or just lazy) ...
      Exactly why there are so many information feeders, and fewer "thinkers"! I've been wondering... Is it because people are just can't think qualitatively enough? Or is it really just laziness? Points like these just perpetuate, and eventually some guy is going to come along and literally take the phrase as it is.

      Originally Posted by Kingshouse View Post

      Traffic helps you build a list but traffic does not convert itself. Hint- this is one reason you build a list.
      DEAD ON.

      A lead database is merely a contact details database. An email list, is a contact details database, with a permission for you to send emails to their personal inboxes. It's like exchanging phone numbers, nothing more than that.

      Can you imagine exchanging phone numbers with someone, and then suddenly receiving a crap load of text ads from that guy? On a phone, it'll be so much harder, but on email, trust me - they'll hit that unsubscribe faster than the blink of an eye.

      Build a relationship, however, and even if it seems to "fatigue", people are going to come at it as an angle of familiarity. Like you seeing an old friend, even if you do not post as often.

      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      To a lot of people, this might seem like a subtle shift of mindset.

      But when you really take the time to fully understand the message you revealed so elequently, it'll make the difference between making an impact...

      ...and completely failing at IM.... for a LOT of people.
      Mark, you've got it! The subtle mindset changes are always the breaking points for a lot of people.

      Originally Posted by fthomas137 View Post

      My question is, do you really care? Let's be honest about this. In all honesty if you were that interested in my underage daughter, I'd find that a bit creepy.
      Fthomas, you have a huge point there.

      But let's face it - Extremities of any degree to anything are rarely beneficial. It's okay to be moderate, but empathy should still be genuine to an extent and value must still be given.

      If not, what's the point of subscribing to a newsletter, if you;'re only going to be swamped by useless emails that spell out the word s-p-a-m?

      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      They forget that at the other end of that email is a living, breathing human trying to accomplish something. All they see is a bunch of wallets.
      Better to find a balance. Use the "Godfather" approach...

      "I will do this thing for you. Some day, I will ask you for a favor, for you to do something for me..."
      Love that Godfather approach.

      If you think about it, it's all about psychological reciprocity. That's the basis of why free valuable things were given out in the first place. It spurred conversions!

      Originally Posted by TheNewGuy2010 View Post

      Everyone can put their own twist and turn on it but the money IS in the list.
      Exactly why there's a need to define this properly.

      When people hear "the money is in the list", they think of SCALE, and only scale. They want to get it as big as possible in the shortest amount of time.

      There are still a huge number of factors. I really like the analogy of "prospects giving you their phone numbers".

      How you get their phone number, is when they find that you have some sort of "value" towards them. And to maintain it, it's like talking and maintaining a sense of familiarity and growing trust towards them. It's all about value exchange in the end.

      Scale matters, sure, but what's the point of getting the Yellow Pages if none of them ever built the right kind of rapport with you?

      Originally Posted by Art of Marketing View Post

      Its amazing how fast the marketing jargon goes from value, relationship, content, to open rates, clicks, unsubcribes, and conversions.
      It's pretty amazing, isn't it? It's funny, because there needs to be a balance.

      Look at companies like Apple. They strive to give value - it's not just about growing the size of the lists. When you give value, people will naturally come - either by referrals, rumors or some kind of medium.

      James Fame
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      Fire me a pm if you have a question. I build businesses and provide consulting. I do not do finance/money/internet marketing niches. Fitness, self-improvement and various others are welcome.

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