Tell me if I am off base here...

33 replies
I just wrote a new article for my website/blog. I am wondering if I am way off base here. Please review and give some critique (constructive please.):

Discover 3 Secret Ingredients that all Successful Businesses Have and Why if Your Business doesn't have these then You are going to Fail!

With the advent of the internet a whole paradigm shift occurred with how businesses needed to operate. No longer would a large advertising budget be good enough to flood in customers.


The internet changed this business model. People flocked to the internet to gather FREE information on products and services that they were interested in. The internet also made getting the products and services faster, easier, and cheaper than ever before. Now instead of a large advertising budget all you needed was a savvy website designer and programmer and you virtually had a license to print money.


But the internet users are themselves very savvy. So you couldn't fool them for long. They discovered all the tricks and learned how to get them out of sight forever.


And a new business paradigm is born.


Now to be successful -- especially with using the internet -- you have to have 3 secret ingredients. They are:
  1. Presence
  2. Authority
  3. Community
You have to be seen. Companies without websites in today's age are basically begging to be out of business. With readership in newspapers and the Yellowpages going down in flames the old business model of throwing bunches of money into print advertising are long gone.


To be seen today, you have to have a website. And that website has to have a successful website marketing campaign so that you dominate the search engines for your town or city.


So to be seen you need to have:
  • A website, and
  • A successful website marketing program
To be seen as an authority to have to provide a lot of useful and revelant information; largely for free.


You need to have articles, blog posts, forum comments and videos that give away the farm in forms of free advice or tips. It has to be friendly, entertaining and, most importantly, useful.


Again, by having a website and a successful marketing campaign will go a long way in providing this authority to you.


The biggest asset of authority is that when a client, patient, customer or whatever sees you as an authority, then they will want more from you and want to do business with you. So establishing authority is vital...but how can that be done if you do not have presence; if you can't be seen.


And that leads us to the last ingredient. Community.


Once your client/patient/customer has found you and you have established yourself as an authority you have to continually provide a community for these people.


People want to do business with friends and those that they respect. By providing community on continual basis you will garner this friendship. Stop providing community (and great service) and you will alienate the masses which will decimate your business.


By having a website and successful website marketing campaign which employees all the tools and services of the internet like Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Blogs, email and newsletters, Social Bookmarking and so on and so on you neither have authority or community.


All the ingredients must work together. You can't have one without the others.


Want a successful business? Then follow these 5 simple steps:
  1. Get a website.
  2. Create a website marketing plan.
  3. Don't have time to create your own plan then hire a company like
  4. Establish authority.
  5. Provided on-going community.
See? I told you it was simple.
#base
  • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
    Originally Posted by jaeburnham View Post

    But the internet users are themselves very savvy.
    Here's where you lost me...

    Some internet users are very savvy but there are a whole lot more are not. Others are savvy about something specific, like WoW, but very limited outside of that sphere.

    I think that there is a danger that people on the cutting edge of Internet marketing think that your average Joe/Jane Internet user thinks the same way as they do. However, they don't.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve MacLellan
    Ya' know, I make a living from the Internet. I'm not rich -- just make what most people would consider a professional but modest income -- been doing it for 10+ years.

    I've seen a lot of people come and go.

    My mechanic has opened another bay and hired two more mechanics in the last year. His business is thriving, even in these times, and he doesn't even have an email address, let alone a website. He might have to expand again this year as he's got more business then he can handle.

    Another fellow I know. He's a welder. He has all the work he wants. Again, no website, no email address.

    Another fellow I know who makes his living as a professional musician. He's doing great.

    There are a lot of businesses succeeding that don't use the Internet.

    You have to be seen. Companies without websites in today's age are basically begging to be out of business.
    Seems to me, that if you look around, you can find several similar examples yourself. So, yes... I would say your article is a little "off base".

    Regards,
    Steve MacLellan
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    • Profile picture of the author jaeburnham
      Thanks. I'll consider the source of this advice seeing as it is coming from a mediocre business person. I asked for constructive advice not covert hostility.

      Originally Posted by Steve MacLellan View Post

      Ya' know, I make a living from the Internet. I'm not rich -- just make what most people would consider a professional but modest income -- been doing it for 10+ years.

      I've seen a lot of people come and go.

      My mechanic has opened another bay and hired two more mechanics in the last year. His business is thriving, even in these times, and he doesn't even have an email address, let alone a website. He might have to expand again this year as he's got more business then he can handle.

      Another fellow I know. He's a welder. He has all the work he wants. Again, no website, no email address.

      Another fellow I know who makes his living as a professional musician. He's doing great.

      There are a lot of businesses succeeding that don't use the Internet.



      Seems to me, that if you look around, you can find several similar examples yourself. So, yes... I would say your article is a little "off base".

      Regards,
      Steve MacLellan
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Jae,
        Thanks. I'll consider the source of this advice seeing as it is coming from a mediocre business person. I asked for constructive advice not covert hostility.
        Even if your original post wasn't off base, this response is. Waaaaay off base.

        Steve gave you facts. Facts which are mirrored in every community in the western world. Your response is proof of a level of arrogance that even I find offensive. Believe it, that's not an easy feat.


        Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by jaeburnham View Post

        Thanks. I'll consider the source of this advice seeing as it is coming from a mediocre business person. I asked for constructive advice not covert hostility.
        Insulting a person who tried to help you?

        How do you know he is a mediocre business person?

        And just because he didnt agree w/ you doesn't make his reply hostile.

        As to your question, I didnt read all of the article because it was boring but not every business needs a website.
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  • Profile picture of the author findtips
    I agree. Steve's post was objective and right on the money and I didn't see anything hostile at all. Your comment of "mediocre business person" was a blatant insult. You might want to consider apologizing.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      You want constructive? OK...

      Nice way to get some keyword-loaded links on a popular forum. Amateurish article, about what I'd expect from a directory like EZA promoting a Clickbank product.

      You could pump up the interest factor by using more active language and not putting things in past tense. Makes it read like a history lesson.

      You could also tone down the self-serving 'you need what I'm selling or you'll fail' attitude. Given the factual examples cited, that premise is obviously not 100% correct.

      Lashing out at someone who didn't buy your premise like that isn't getting you any points, either. Paul's right - it takes a lot to offend him. It takes a lot less to offend a lot of other people who might otherwise want to help you.

      I know it hurts when someone tells you your baby is ugly, but sometimes it's just an ugly baby...
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        John,
        Paul's right - it takes a lot to offend him.
        Well, with arrogance, anyway. I have a very high tolerance for it. And that's usually not my stone to throw.

        I suspect that Jae defines "mediocre" as "having different goals than me." He'll find out how useless that standard is at some point. He'll also find out that bashing someone who's been successful at the game much longer than he has, and who's been involved here for longer than his profile join date suggests, is going to cost him. As you say.

        One wonders how many of the probably 60 or 80 people who've read this thread so far could have given him useful suggestions, but chose not to.


        Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author jaeburnham
      Thank you all for your opinion.

      You think that I insulted the guy, but lets actually loo at the facts here:

      1) I called the mediocre. You all exclaim foul. Yet he, himself, admits and states that he is mediocre, and I quote "I'm not rich -- just make what most people would consider a professional but modest income -- been doing it for 10+ years."

      I highlighted the word "modest". Take a look in the dictionary: It means average. Look in the dictionary for "mediocre" and it too means average. I didn't insult him. I said exactly what he already claimed to be.

      2) Go to his website HomeBusiness-Websites.com. Several links are broken. He has out of date websites that he is promoting, etc.

      You are telling me, that this is a thriving business person? Really?

      If the can not be bothered to ensure that his website is functionally one hundred percent -- and he is in the business of creating websites -- you are telling me that this man has something I should listen to.

      Apparently he makes websites and designs them. Okay. But in his sig file for this forum he can't make the link to his website clickable? That seems odd for someone that supposedly does this for a living.

      3) he has been a member of this forum since 2007. That is three years. He only has around 60 posts?

      Looking at his website it is plainly visible that he does not take the advice of any of the experts here.

      No opt-in above the fold. No compelling headline. Broken links, etc etc etc.

      I have only been a member a few weeks and have almost the same amount of posts...

      4) He doesn't present any facts. His examples we have to take at his word. We don't know if the mechanic is in debt up to his eye balls and is barely scraping by.

      Those are not facts. They are observations based on limited facts. Maybe on the outward appearance they are doing fine without a website. I don't know. You don't know, and does Steve truly know?

      5) Constructive criticism does not mean give you my opinion then say you are off base.

      What it means is you spot an outpoint. Tell me why it is an outpoint and then suggest how it can be improved.

      That is constructive and helpful.

      Telling someone that yes they are "off base" with out any suggestions as to how to improve it is not constructive. It is just an opinion.

      So, NO. I will not apologize. To him or to any of you. Clamor away if you will. But before you slam me for stating what the man had already admitted look at all the facts then make tell me I am wrong.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bryan Zimmerman
        Originally Posted by jaeburnham View Post

        Thank you all for your opinion.

        You think that I insulted the guy, but lets actually loo at the facts here:

        1) I called the mediocre. You all exclaim foul. Yet he, himself, admits and states that he is mediocre, and I quote "I'm not rich -- just make what most people would consider a professional but modest income -- been doing it for 10+ years."
        The only thing "modest" and "mediocre" have in common is they start with the same letter.

        There's a ton of words in the dictionary like that but we all know they arn't perceived that way. The word "faggot" actually means "a bundle of sticks" in the dictionary, but if you call someone that you know what your trying to say.

        You insulted him. And thats how most people will preceive it. If your looking for help, your not going to get it that way. No matter what the dictionary might tell you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Jae,

          You do not understand the difference between "modest professional" income and "average?" Or do you think we're stupid enough that we don't understand the intended difference in meaning between "average" and "mediocre?"

          Did you think that a forum full of marketers would not notice such blatant connotations?

          That aside, the fact is that his points were exactly correct. Your article says things that are simply not true, and you deserve the shunning you're going to get from anyone who reads this thread.

          By the way... You may want to look up the story of the shoemaker's kids. It's possible you'd find it instructional.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author jaeburnham
            Look Paul and others.

            I don't care if my article hits the ball out the park. I came looking to see how it could be improved. Emphasis on the improved part.

            If it is bad then I have no problem amending it or even rewriting it. But I am looking at suggestions on how to do that.

            Just telling me its wrong does nothing to accomplish this goal.

            I could say your wrong a million times does not make it so. IF something is incorrect or not factual then say so...but also tell me what your suggestions would be to fix them.

            And that is constructive criticism.

            Paul you seem to knowledgable in this field. And more so than me I admit. I would willingly take advice from you in this regard.

            But I am not going take advice from someone that can not practice what he preaches.

            I have looked at your stuff and I find it to be solid.

            I however keep my own counsel. I always take a look at the man behind the curtain before I make any judgments. I looked at this Steve and found that he was not the great and powerful OZ.

            He had opinion. Nothing wrong with that. But like the old saying goes "opinions are like buttholes...everyone has one."

            I submitted the article to elicit suggestions to improve it. I didn't submit it for opinions.

            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Jae,

            You do not understand the difference between "modest professional" income and "average?" Or do you think we're stupid enough that we don't understand the intended difference in meaning between "average" and "mediocre?"

            Did you think that a forum full of marketers would not notice such blatant connotations?

            That aside, the fact is that his points were exactly correct. Your article says things that are simply not true, and you deserve the shunning you're going to get from anyone who reads this thread.

            By the way... You may want to look up the story of the shoemaker's kids. It's possible you'd find it instructional.


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Jae,

              You expect me to help you, after you come in here blasting someone that rudely, with no basis other than that his comments didn't fit your arbitrary standard for critique?

              Not bloody likely.

              I doubt that you realize just how many of the people who could really help you have seen this thread and written you off. At least they have until you get over your idea that you can come in here and dictate how you want to take feedback. That's never washed here, and it's not likely to start any time soon.


              Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by jaeburnham View Post

              I submitted the article to elicit suggestions to improve it. I didn't submit it for opinions.
              The more I read, the more I think you may have posted your article to get some keyword links, and you don't really give a rat's behind about any of our opinions.

              Want to prove me wrong? Kill the active links in the original article...

              Oh, yeah, you must have missed the suggestions I gave you in favor of telling me and others how dumb we all are.
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              • Profile picture of the author jaeburnham
                John.

                You asked and you received.

                I find extremely hypocritical of everyone thus far. You all say that I am out line and then go head and insult me. How is that any different. And if you can't see that irony then...yes you are stupid.

                I am not here to make enemies. But if you wish to vilify me by doing the very same thing that your are all offend by then we'll be enemies. It will be tragic. But I'll get over it. I'll still get every morning and breathe air, and put on pants on like all of you and live another day. And you know what...

                What you will have said or are saying won't have mattered one way or the other.

                And you all think I'm arrogant.

                John --

                You really think any traffic I get from this forum makes a difference in the business I am trying to create. You are not my public. You are not the people I am trying to communicate to.

                I am not trying to sell this community the next get rich plan.

                What makes you so special that you can sit in the proverbial ivory tower and preach to me that I can't do this or that when you yourselves are being guilty of very same "crime" your are accusing me of.

                If you can't give actual and true constructive criticism then don't say anything at all. I have not sat in judgment of you but you think that it is okay to do so with me. That my friends is called hypocrit.





                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                The more I read, the more I think you may have posted your article to get some keyword links, and you don't really give a rat's behind about any of our opinions.

                Want to prove me wrong? Kill the active links in the original article...

                Oh, yeah, you must have missed the suggestions I gave you in favor of telling me and others how dumb we all are.
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                • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                  Originally Posted by jaeburnham View Post

                  John.

                  You asked and you received.

                  ...

                  John --

                  You really think any traffic I get from this forum makes a difference in the business I am trying to create. You are not my public. You are not the people I am trying to communicate to.

                  I am not trying to sell this community the next get rich plan.

                  What makes you so special that you can sit in the proverbial ivory tower and preach to me that I can't do this or that when you yourselves are being guilty of very same "crime" your are accusing me of.

                  If you can't give actual and true constructive criticism then don't say anything at all. I have not sat in judgment of you but you think that it is okay to do so with me. That my friends is called hypocrit.
                  First things first...

                  Jae, you took out the live links and I commend you for it. Now I'll admit that the only reason for it to remain is to garner feedback. Put a point on the board for you. Lacking anything for vocal inflection and given the tone of the conversation thus far, this is meant straight up. Nothing to read into it. I challenged you and you responded.

                  You and I both know direct traffic was never the goal for including those links. The goal, if any, was to get some link juice out of the posting. This forum gets spidered many times a day, and a properly linked article or post will tend to get you credit for keyword focused links from a marketing authority site.

                  As for my ivory tower, I don't own one. I'm not attacking Jae at all, I'm pointing out that something Jae wrote was being interpreted by many as something less than positive. If you take that as preaching, it's on you and good luck to you.

                  If by "actual and true constructive criticism" you mean "either agree with me or rewrite it for me for free", sorry. Not gonna happen. If you think that's sitting in judgment of you, sorry again. So I guess I'd best not say anymore.

                  Just remember, you asked for feedback. You got it. You didn't like it. I guess life just sucks, doesn't it?
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                  • Profile picture of the author jaeburnham
                    John, in this regard you give me way toooo much credit. That was not intended goal. My intended goal was as I stated, how do I make the article better. Period. Nothing more.

                    Maybe others do that. I was not.

                    The truth is that I just cutted and pasted the article from my website to this forum. I didn't even realize, until you mentioned it that the links were live.

                    So I guess I should thank you for the unintended compliment, but I am not quite that sophisticated (yet). Not when comes to this internet marketing. Although I believe that I am learning fast.

                    I am not asking for rewrite of my article. Simple nudge to the right direction however is not out of the question.

                    To just give only the negative is far from constructive. If you see that as positive in some manner then dude you have issues. However, my opinion is that you are smarter than that.

                    You know what constructive criticism is and you know what Steve gave was not.

                    Even though you were highly critical of me in your first post and insulting which was very hypocritical of you, you still gave constructive criticism.

                    I hadn't gotten around to fixing anything because I was too busy fighting off personal attacks from you and others to concentrate on what needed to be done.

                    Now if we are done here fighting the school kids...can we just make up and get back to work.

                    Jae
                    Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post


                    You and I both know direct traffic was never the goal for including those links. The goal, if any, was to get some link juice out of the posting. This forum gets spidered many times a day, and a properly linked article or post will tend to get you credit for keyword focused links from a marketing authority site.
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                    I am professional mover in Lansing , Michigan. I use only social media and internet marketing techniques to promote my company.

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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      John,

                      Don't waste your time on this gentleman. He's determined to be the attacking victim. We have enough people here to fill that role.

                      This one just deserves to be ignored.


                      Paul
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                        John,

                        Don't waste your time on this gentleman. He's determined to be the attacking victim. We have enough people here to fill that role.

                        This one just deserves to be ignored.


                        Paul
                        Paul, from reading this poor thread, I would say that Jae hasn't even hit the mediocre part in business. He would be lucky with his attitude.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                          Thomas,
                          Paul, from reading this poor thread, I would say that Jae hasn't even hit the mediocre part in business.
                          I couldn't say. And I wouldn't. I don't know his goals, his responsibilities, or anything else that would qualify me to even form an opinion of his offline efforts, much less present it as being credible.

                          He's not the first person to come in here and try to bully this group. He won't be the last to fall flat on his face for the effort, either.

                          Oh well. He'll learn. Or not.


                          Paul
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                      • Profile picture of the author jaeburnham
                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


                        This one just deserves to be ignored.

                        Paul
                        Hahahaha And yet here you are. Still reading and still commneting. Just keep ignoring me.

                        Paul. I tried being civil with you. I have tried to take this off the forum and speak with directly. You -- Yes You -- started this. I said nothing to you. We have never spoken in form until now, yet you attacked me.

                        If you think that is me being a "victim" then so be it.

                        The facts are this:

                        I made a comment to someone that has not said peep. You were first to say anything negative.

                        I tried to take this out of the forum. YOU refused.

                        You say to ignore me but you still making comments.

                        My opinion is that you are looking for fight. You were looking for someone to upbraid. You chose me. Why? Who cares.

                        "Mr. Cueball" (I think that was nickname) says basically the same thing that to upbraid me for yet you barely mention it.

                        Pathetic. Typical double standard. Have you no honor?
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                        • Profile picture of the author Jason Moffatt
                          Hey Jae,

                          I don't think Paul was picking on you.

                          He was simply standing up for a member who did exactly what you asked.

                          A member gave you his opinion (which I thought was quite fair).

                          It was you the accosted the replier and created the fiasco because you didn't like his reply.

                          This thread sort of reinforces my belief that few people ask real questions, but rather are looking for validation in their own thoughts. If you can't handle decent criticism you may want to refrain from asking for it.

                          Also, a lot of us old school members don't like to take things into private. We'd rather just communicate in the open where everyone can see as we'd likely say the exact same thing in private as on the forum.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                            Jason,
                            Also, a lot of us old school members don't like to take things into private. We'd rather just communicate in the open where everyone can see as we'd likely say the exact same thing in private as on the forum.
                            Actually, I was pretty polite in my private response. Here it is, complete and unedited:
                            I have no interest in discussing it with you at all. You have your opinion, and you're entitled to it. We are not going to agree on this, or likely much of anything else.

                            Best of luck to you, sir.
                            Had he said to me publicly what he said privately, I doubt I'd have been so polite, if I responded at all. At this point, the most valuable thing the gentleman has to offer is a lesson in how to screw yourself in open forum.


                            Paul
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                        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                          Originally Posted by jaeburnham View Post


                          "Mr. Cueball" (I think that was nickname) says basically the same thing that to upbraid me for yet you barely mention it.

                          Pathetic. Typical double standard. Have you no honor?
                          Mr Cueball is my burlesque stage name. Obviously I have no honor if I am working as a burlesque dancer.
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                          • Profile picture of the author jaeburnham
                            Now that is funny.

                            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                            Mr Cueball is my burlesque stage name. Obviously I have no honor if I am working as a burlesque dancer.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Woaw, Jae Dude you're way out of line here. The man gave his opinion and finished with saying your article (which is rubbish in my opinion) was a little "off base". So what? You go ballistic over that? Grow up. Yeah his site isn't very Web 2.0 - doesn't have all the bells and whistles but the guy had a point - its not imperative to have a website to succeed in business - especially the kind of businesses he mentioned. I could just see the mechanic and welder beavering away without the distraction of the internet. I have a boat-builder friend in the same boat (ha-ha). His site is a horror-show. Yet he's flat out 6 days a week building fibreglass sailing dinghies for kids. I even built him a new site and loaded it with Adsense to help him out. Guess what? He wasn't interested. He's still got the World's Worst Website. Have a look - Dinghy Sports Australia PTY LTD Is that Tragic or is that tragic?
    Now you need to climb down off your high-horse and apologise. Otherwise you're not going to go very far in this forum - that's for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve MacLellan
    I made a comment to someone that has not said peep.
    Peep!

    The topic of the post was "Tell me if I am off base here..."

    I apologize if I mis-read the intent. It seemed to me like you were looking for opinions -- guess I missed the part about that you really weren't looking for opinions... just how to improve the article.

    I looked at your sites. The ones you left a link to (all three) the oldest one was registered in Dec 2008. If you do a whois on mine you will see it was registered in 1999. About two years after I started making a living online, folks like Paul Myers, Marty Foley and Gordon Alexander suggested to me that I should probably have my own domain name.

    Yep... I know my website ain't web 2.0 like your three, although I've put up 15 wordpress blogs in an hour and have written custom programs for an elite client base. And although I might be the most mediocre guy you ever met, Bob Serling, Yanik Silver, Paul Hartunian and others count on me on a daily basis to keep their sites updated. You're free to email them and ask them if they know Steve MacLellan.

    Basically I only care to work four days a week. In the summer I like to spend my time at my cottage down on the beach. There aren't any phones, no Internet access and it's so far out in the sticks that you can't even get cellphone reception. Yep... I really like to goof-off and do some fishing, clam digging, mountain biking, and even though my site is obviously out-of-date, all my clients come from referrals, which is probably why my signature file in this forum doesn't include an active link. Mostly, no-one bothers to look at my website anymore...

    I know I should probably work harder. Maybe even start writing articles again or send out a newsletter or do something... I dunno' what -- but should do something...

    You know,... I've been a member of this forum for two years and still don't have a hundred posts. Heck... you just joined and have almost caught me in posts.

    I drop by once in a while and when I see what I consider an honest request for help or advise, I offer my 2 cents. I've been lucky over the last 10 years or so that some of the folks (some who actually belong to this forum, like Paul Myers) have shared their wisdom, advice and offered me direction. When my wife and I separated in 2001, Paul Hartunian called me and said, "Steve, I know our relationship is mostly you do what I ask of you, but besides being your client, I'm also a doctor with some experience in what you're going through. What can I do to help you?"

    No, no. I don't want you to feel sorry for me -- I'm doing great. The point is, there are many people on here that can offer you great advice, support, guidance and fellowship. We aren't all a bunch of flakes sitting behind a keyboard tapping out insults wherever we can. We're not all out to "get you."

    Best Regards,
    Steve MacLellan
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    • Profile picture of the author jaeburnham
      Thank you for this post.

      I'll admit looking back at my original posting that I didn't make it clear enough that I was not looking opinions but for direction. MY fault. I apologize. I should have made it clearer and I didn't so I am at fault.

      I am sure your fine person. I have no ill will for you at all. I am sure your credentials are what you say they are. I can't comment on that. I can only state what I see.

      I read what you wrote and I definitely was tracking. What set me on edge was the last line which was yes it is off base (or whatever the exact quote was). That was uncalled for.

      Okay, granted that there was things that needed fixing. That is why I asked for some help. But to call something completely "off base" based one only thing that you found objectionable and questionable is not, in my opinion, any where near constructive. So I took offense.

      Now it may be that was not your intention and I grant you that. We all make mistakes. I know I do. I will never ask for advice from this group again. You all have taught me to keep my shut here. All hail the status quo.

      I am here to learn. You are the experts and this is supposed to be a forum where to learn in a safe space. You have the responsibility as the experts and the teachers to teach not preach.

      I attacked your character Steve. This is unfortunate. While I do see yours and others viewpoints and I cannot be but impressed by awesome Janus faced individuals here.

      Some have tried to speak rationally. Others just tried to enflame.

      While I am new at this game I am far from being naive. I don't attack until attacked. I perceived what you communicated as an attack. If that was not your intention then my resulting communication was inappropiate.

      I can very rational. You only have to communicate.

      I however won't stand by while others try to jump in something that was not there fight.

      I tried to end this whole with Paul. I tried to communicate to off the forum lines. He refused. He was begging for a fight, and he got one.

      I miscommunicated and you did to Steve. As far as I am concerned this is over. Unless there are others that wish to enflame this more.

      Lets stop acting like children. Yes all of you that have communicated something here with this thread are guilty. We've all said things we should not have. Let just be done.



      Originally Posted by Steve MacLellan View Post

      Peep!

      The topic of the post was "Tell me if I am off base here..."

      I apologize if I mis-read the intent. It seemed to me like you were looking for opinions -- guess I missed the part about that you really weren't looking for opinions... just how to improve the article.

      I looked at your sites. The ones you left a link to (all three) the oldest one was registered in Dec 2008. If you do a whois on mine you will see it was registered in 1999. About two years after I started making a living online, folks like Paul Myers, Marty Foley and Gordon Alexander suggested to me that I should probably have my own domain name.

      Yep... I know my website ain't web 2.0 like your three, although I've put up 15 wordpress blogs in an hour and have written custom programs for an elite client base. And although I might be the most mediocre guy you ever met, Bob Serling, Yanik Silver, Paul Hartunian and others count on me on a daily basis to keep their sites updated. You're free to email them and ask them if they know Steve MacLellan.

      Basically I only care to work four days a week. In the summer I like to spend my time at my cottage down on the beach. There aren't any phones, no Internet access and it's so far out in the sticks that you can't even get cellphone reception. Yep... I really like to goof-off and do some fishing, clam digging, mountain biking, and even though my site is obviously out-of-date, all my clients come from referrals, which is probably why my signature file in this forum doesn't include an active link. Mostly, no-one bothers to look at my website anymore...

      I know I should probably work harder. Maybe even start writing articles again or send out a newsletter or do something... I dunno' what -- but should do something...

      You know,... I've been a member of this forum for two years and still don't have a hundred posts. Heck... you just joined and have almost caught me in posts.

      I drop by once in a while and when I see what I consider an honest request for help or advise, I offer my 2 cents. I've been lucky over the last 10 years or so that some of the folks (some who actually belong to this forum, like Paul Myers) have shared their wisdom, advice and offered me direction. When my wife and I separated in 2001, Paul Hartunian called me and said, "Steve, I know our relationship is mostly you do what I ask of you, but besides being your client, I'm also a doctor with some experience in what you're going through. What can I do to help you?"

      No, no. I don't want you to feel sorry for me -- I'm doing great. The point is, there are many people on here that can offer you great advice, support, guidance and fellowship. We aren't all a bunch of flakes sitting behind a keyboard tapping out insults wherever we can. We're not all out to "get you."

      Best Regards,
      Steve MacLellan
      Signature

      I am professional mover in Lansing , Michigan. I use only social media and internet marketing techniques to promote my company.

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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    You're way off base.
    Signature
    Tired of Article Marketing, Backlink Spamming and Other Crusty Old Traffic Methods?

    Click Here.
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    I knew a man who built a bear trap and then fell into it himself.

    Welcome to semantic paradise Jae - you dug the pit too deep and you can't get out because the pit walls are so steep you can't see that just away from the lip is a man with a ladder who is willing to help you.
    Signature

    You might not like what I say - but I believe it.
    Build it, make money, then build some more
    Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Steve,

      RE post #26

      I hope one day that I can achieve a level of mediocrity such as yours

      Hi Jae,

      I've observed many of these type of discussions here. What I've learnt is that -

      This is good -

      MY fault. I apologize.
      But to then follow with this -

      Lets stop acting like children. Yes all of you that have communicated something here with this thread are guilty. We've all said things we should not have. Let just be done.
      ...takes the gloss off it somewhat. Not that it matters much, it's only pixels on a forum.

      But the lesson I learnt from being in a somewhat similar position to yourself, many times, is that Paul AND Steve are both saying the same things - just in different ways. And the key lesson (for me) was that I could learn just as much from both.

      If you look at Paul's posts in the light of Steve's later post - then (to me) it becomes clear that it's what Paul doesn't say that matters. It's the stuff that you can't see (at first) that really matters. You never know who you are really speaking to on here.

      Once I realised this, I started asking myself what Paul was choosing not to say, and why he would hold it back. Then I realised that he practices the 'give 'em enough rope' principle.

      Over time, I found that the barbs that he had previously thrown at me didn't hurt so much and didn't cause the unstoppable 'throw-back' instinct because I realised that overall, he was actually being kind and trying to help me. Paul's help is of a kind that is difficult to ignore because of it's barb-like nature. And that's why it's ultimately effective and appreciated.

      But, as mentioned, it is always delivered in a manner that demands attention - which makes it easy for the recipient to take umbrage if their ego is not correctly aligned with their ability to accept advice via 'tough-love.'

      Does any of this explain why I feel you are mistaken to say -

      I attacked your character Steve. This is unfortunate. While I do see yours and others viewpoints and I cannot be but impressed by awesome Janus faced individuals here.

      Some have tried to speak rationally. Others just tried to enflame.
      Attacking his character was not unfortunate, it was way more than that. The responses to you were in line with that and helpful to you - but only if you can overcome your ego.

      I can very rational. You only have to communicate.
      They did. YOU are refusing to see it.

      I however won't stand by while others try to jump in something that was not there fight.
      It has been demonstrated and explained to you that it is their fight. YOU refuse to see it. Would you think more of the group if they didn't right wrongs when they saw it as a public demonstration of how to behave? If they didn't stand up for each other?

      Finally - I started out here just like you have in this thread. It doesn't have to be definitive. But it does require introspection to reel in the ego.

      Backing down to the one person who was unbelievably gracious in their response (Steve) whilst rallying against anyone else who was not so gracious, doesn't win the fight. It wins nothing. Because the group is a group. And although it's easy to miss it, when anyone who has stuck it out for a while here bothers to comment, they are almost always only trying to help. Anything else is a waste of their time.

      Hope this helps.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
        Jae,

        Originally Posted by jaeburnham View Post

        I read what you wrote and I definitely was tracking. What set me on edge was the last line which was yes it is off base (or whatever the exact quote was). That was uncalled for.
        It wasn't uncalled for because that is EXACTLY what you asked for. Your thread title makes this request:

        Tell me if I am off base here...
        Sounds like the answer would be a yes or no question.

        But Steve is polite, so he doesn't just give you a yes or no question. Here's what he says:

        Originally Posted by Steve MacLellan View Post

        Seems to me, that if you look around, you can find several similar examples yourself. So, yes... I would say your article is a little "off base".
        He says "a little." LITTLE. And he's answering the question from your post title.

        And yet you blow it up in your mind to this:

        Originally Posted by jaeburnham View Post

        Okay, granted that there was things that needed fixing. That is why I asked for some help. But to call something completely "off base" based one only thing that you found objectionable and questionable is not, in my opinion, any where near constructive. So I took offense.

        How does "a little" become COMPLETELY?

        It happens because you're looking for validation. Just because you got little pats on the back before for an article you posted here doesn't mean you'll always get to hear what you want to hear. Sometimes you'll hear the truth. If you can get past your ego, you'll become a better business person as a result.

        Cheers,
        Becky
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