Frustrated About This IM Culture

111 replies
If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?

Would they really want to spend the time and effort to try and help to change our lives? or they really just want us to buy something from them?

I don't know why, but I'm starting to lose the trust in this IM industry..

I'm not saying one must help someone (because that's just not compulsory), but is this a path (must work out things on themselves) that every IMer must go through?

People say, "You need a mentor, or coach" Really? They're trying to help or they're trying to earn the last bit of money you've got?

I've joined several coaching programs, and all there are just some 50 x 1 hour videos, that's impossible to finish learning (especially if you're frustrated about your financial status).

Taking action is important. What if taking action in the wrong direction? That's only wasting more time, wasting my last bit of money and killing the faith...

I know I'm frustrated (have already gone through, What to do if frustrated), but I don't expect any of you to help me, just want to share my opinions.....
#culture #frustrated
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Forgetting what other IMers are doing...

    ...how do YOU want to HELP people?

    Answer that question and lot of the BS falls by the wayside.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Ellie Days
      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      Forgetting what other IMers are doing...

      ...how do YOU want to HELP people?

      Answer that question and lot of the BS falls by the wayside.

      Mark
      I tried to do that several of times, but most of the guys didn't take any value out of me, or I'm simply just using the wrong method, again....
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      • Profile picture of the author MKCookins
        Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

        I tried to do that several of times, but most of the guys didn't take any value out of me, or I'm simply just using the wrong method, again....
        I find the best way to provide value to people is to show them results that you have gotten personally and how you went about getting them.

        For example if you were in the IM niche teaching people how to drive traffic -- you could do a video series or ebook about generating traffic from Pinterest.

        Show them the actual stats you got, and what you did to get those stats.

        Hope this helps
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  • Stop buying WSOs and just study this forum. There are lots of useful and free information here.

    Create some kind of business and focus on something you are passionate about. You need to "love" your niche, don't just focus on money.
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  • Profile picture of the author DrFresh
    I can definitely feel where you're coming from - WSO's are released to make the vendors money, no one else. Coaching programs are the same... Very few that actually release products with the genuine (primary) intention of helping anyone but themselves.

    If I do a WSO, I at least make sure that it's beneficial to the customers and I'm sure a lot of the WSO vendors out there are the same way, but at the end of the day it's all about making a profit...
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  • Profile picture of the author Ellie Days
    Originally Posted by Art of Marketing View Post

    First of all I do understand your frustration.

    But you are looking at things with a wide lens.

    If you can, try to focus on someone or something that you know is proven to work and model after that.

    When you go shopping for the clothes you wear and every other product in your life there are people pitching you trying to persuade you but that is acceptable?

    Marketing is no different than any other business. There is competition there is a time when you market and a time when you get marketed to.

    There is frustration in any business.

    What are you selling? How are YOU promoting it? If everyone else in IM was doing the same thing I would welcome it because it would make me stand out from the crowd.

    Does listingbuilding work? Does video marketing work? That is all I concern my self with..not how marketers are trying to market to me.

    The IM niche and marketing your products and services are 2 separate beasts.

    You are an Entrepreneur First. We should not have to follow the bird feed trail.

    Blaze your own trail.

    -Art


    I tend to follow other people's marketing strategies, but then wouldn't I be considered as a plagiarizer?

    Seeing other people making money with ease has kept me motivated, but it's just hard when on the reality side, the finicial pressure is on you..
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

      I tend to follow other people's marketing strategies, but then wouldn't I be considered as a plagiarizer?

      Seeing other people making money with ease has kept me motivated, but it's just hard when on the reality side, the finicial pressure is on you..
      No, you won't be seen as a plagiarizer. Borrowing and modifying other people's marketing is just good business and common sense.

      Study what successful Internet marketers do - and then do it.

      Study what unsuccessful Internet marketers do - and then don't do it.

      You have just been handed the most important lessons of IM you could ever learn Good luck.
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      • Profile picture of the author Stacy Fleetwood
        Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post


        Study what successful Internet marketers do - and then do it.

        Study what unsuccessful Internet marketers do - and then don't do it.

        You have just been handed the most important lessons of IM you could ever learn
        ^ So true!

        I totally understand the frustration, and the feeling the everyone is just trying to sell you something. I've tried many many things in IM, chasing the big money dream. Then I hit a level of frustration where I stopped it all, and stepped back for weeks.

        During that pause a program came across my path, which I don't feel the need to say what it was because this isn't a pitch. It brought things into focus for me. I realized that ultimately I was chasing money. My focus was all wrong. I was trying to get from point A (earning 0 dollars) to B (earning enough to quit my job) as fast as possible, with whatever method I could get to work first.

        As soon as I changed my focus to my customers/readers/target market and how I could give them value and solve their problems, my business has changed. I have never been so productive. I'm excited again. I feel like what I am building is real and sustainable.

        I hope you don't give up!

        Stacy
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        • Profile picture of the author Aurelijus
          This is very true.

          Follow your passions, not the money. Sometimes, when we first get introduced to IM we're brainwashed into "following" the herd, when instead we should stand out with our own idea and our own way. Yes, there're models and systems and tools to use, but the concept of the business has to be unique and valuable to the customer.

          Selling the dream is unethical. You're brainwashing the people. There are decent mentors out there, but there are A LOT of dream sellers as well and as bad as it sounds, you're either lucky or unlucky to find the right one.


          Originally Posted by Stacy Fleetwood View Post

          ^ So true!

          I totally understand the frustration, and the feeling the everyone is just trying to sell you something. I've tried many many things in IM, chasing the big money dream. Then I hit a level of frustration where I stopped it all, and stepped back for weeks.

          During that pause a program came across my path, which I don't feel the need to say what it was because this isn't a pitch. It brought things into focus for me. I realized that ultimately I was chasing money. My focus was all wrong. I was trying to get from point A (earning 0 dollars) to B (earning enough to quit my job) as fast as possible, with whatever method I could get to work first.

          As soon as I changed my focus to my customers/readers/target market and how I could give them value and solve their problems, my business has changed. I have never been so productive. I'm excited again. I feel like what I am building is real and sustainable.

          I hope you don't give up!

          Stacy
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          • Profile picture of the author OliviasDad
            As a new member of the forum, this thread spoke to me

            I've been following a path in IM for the past 12 months

            I believe when you find what works for you, it can be intoxicating

            But I also find that most of the time it's frustrating because of all the <NOISE>

            Five (5) Things I've Learned About IM'ing
            1. There is so much free information available that to begin and achieve a small measure of success is possible without opening your wallet
            2. Keyword Research is EVERYTHING - Every course or WSO or Master Class or MasterMind will hammer that into you, and in truth, if you don't have your keywords in order, everything that comes after will be a waste of time and money
            3. IM is a long-term venture, so ignore those who have great case studies about the one time they made 1000's of $$ in 2 minutes, it's not for you
            4. People selling to IM'ers are great with the theory, but they almost always fall short with the application or the feasibility of their ideas, seriously, some of these courses sound great until they leave out huge chunks where things just "magically" occur to get you to the next step
            5. Little steps, little victories will lead to the big success you want; it's that damn elephant again, "How do you eat an elephant? ... One bite at a time!"

            My two cents, I could write more, but if I did, what would I put in my next post

            Cheers!
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            • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
              Great contribution, OliviasDad!

              Knowing that there is SO MUCH free information available online, I truly believe that, in itself, poses some serious issues for alot of people. Where problems or issues lie, so also do opportunities to help and business opportunities. I cannot recall who the author was, but, I recall once reading a blog post where the author wrote about how you don't always have to create something entirely NEW to be successful....instead, there can be huge value underlying aggregating already existing information.

              The aggregation of relevant, pertinent information, in an online world where people are hammered from every which direction, can be extremely valuable...and, can be something people will pay for immensely, if done correctly.

              Originally Posted by OliviasDad View Post

              As a new member of the forum, this thread spoke to me

              I've been following a path in IM for the past 12 months

              I believe when you find what works for you, it can be intoxicating

              But I also find that most of the time it's frustrating because of all the <NOISE>

              Five (5) Things I've Learned About IM'ing
              1. There is so much free information available that to begin and achieve a small measure of success is possible without opening your wallet
              2. Keyword Research is EVERYTHING - Every course or WSO or Master Class or MasterMind will hammer that into you, and in truth, if you don't have your keywords in order, everything that comes after will be a waste of time and money
              3. IM is a long-term venture, so ignore those who have great case studies about the one time they made 1000's of $$ in 2 minutes, it's not for you
              4. People selling to IM'ers are great with the theory, but they almost always fall short with the application or the feasibility of their ideas, seriously, some of these courses sound great until they leave out huge chunks where things just "magically" occur to get you to the next step
              5. Little steps, little victories will lead to the big success you want; it's that damn elephant again, "How do you eat an elephant? ... One bite at a time!"

              My two cents, I could write more, but if I did, what would I put in my next post

              Cheers!
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      • Profile picture of the author Ellie Days
        Originally Posted by Art of Marketing View Post

        @ The Most Interesting Man....You always were good with those short and witty soundbites no wonder your commercials are classics!
        I love your sig!
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      • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
        Originally Posted by Art of Marketing View Post

        @ The Most Interesting Man....You always were good with those short and witty soundbites no wonder your commercials are classics!
        I don't normally post at Warrior Forum, but when I do I make it profound and brief
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    I would avoid buying other peoples products, find your information for free on forums or online, most "Coaching" is just like you say, it's all cheap and pre recorded.

    I've only bought 3 products in IM that I thought have helped me:

    1. Google money pro (all about PPC)
    2. Pot Pie Girls one week marketing (I think that's what it's called, used it years ago)
    3. Wealthy affiliate (good solid info, a bit expensive though)

    You don't need ANY of these. But if you're going to spend money at least spend it on the right things.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfe655
    I have said it in other posts I bought Alex Jeffreys Marketing With Alex right here in the WSO section. 17 bucks Best marketing info product I ever bought. Follow that plan and you will do good!
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  • Profile picture of the author Devin X
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

    If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?
    No, not really. This industry is full of uneducated morons who are only out for themselves. It's extremely cutthroat and very shady the deeper and deeper you get. But you know that already...I mean that's why you're writing this thread. right?

    Now then, what have you tried in business? Specifically.
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  • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
    Banned
    but is this a path (must work out things on themselves) that every IMer must go through?
    Yes, it is. You've got to find your own place in the market, your own methods of doing things. You have to be a highly motivated, self-starter.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Okay you old warriors I am about to give my gold rush speach.

    Instead of marketing products of others, become a teacher and sell shovels to them.
    The old shovel trick.
    In about 1849 we had the gold rush days. Everyone flocked to California to pan for gold.
    Very few made it rich but one group of these people did make alot of money and usually never struck gold. They were the shovel sellers.

    Not many people make it from someone that they follow. We are all different and get different outcomes. You have to break away from the pack and become who you are, not who they are or what you see they are.

    I'm pretty basic, I do alot of the same things I did in the 90's I do today. I make money. I don't get make most my money off one thing any longer. I have hundreds of websites and they all trickle in. I have this niche and this system and this one and that one.

    One thing I do not do is listen to the masses, I try things out myself to see what happens. Now this is not to say that I know what not to try, some things you just know not to do.

    Try it. Be different, sell shovels and see what happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author Micah Medina
    The people that need to hear the advice in these types of threads are the least likely to take it because they think "you need to figure things out on your own" is just lazy and self-serving advice.

    When the fact is that those people are seeing it from the other side and being bumrushed by people who want help but don't have the right skills or attitude.

    There are a lot of mindset adjustments that can only be made with time in the business.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamesBorg
    Don't bother spending money on IM/MMO products, at least not until you're getting a positive return online. There's enough free information and free software out there that you can get by without those products.

    I'd be surprised if more than 5% of people selling IM/MMO products have ever made money online outside of selling IM/MMO products.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brady Partridge
      Originally Posted by JamesBorg View Post

      Don't bother spending money on IM/MMO products, at least not until you're getting a positive return online. There's enough free information and free software out there that you can get by without those products.

      I'd be surprised if more than 5% of people selling IM/MMO products have ever made money online outside of selling IM/MMO products.
      You deserve a special mention for having a picture of one of the most entertaining characters in the history of television as your avatar.
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  • Profile picture of the author wrcato2
    Take a day or two off and rethink your strategy. If you use facebook and have something that you can part with consider selling what you can on the "your city" yard sales to fund your cause.
    Marketing takes time to learn it won't happen overnight. When you do it the right way, you will have an audience ready and eager to take action.

    Never give up. Follow your dreams.
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  • Profile picture of the author gcgipson
    The IM market seems like a snake oil market to me....but then there's a business idea hidden in that statement for ya Maybe you could create a website that weeds out the solid IM offers from the junk offers....
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Elle your concerns are well founded.

    I'll get hatemail for saying this... But you're absolutely correct.

    My advice?

    Never rely upon anyone else for your own success.

    Never actively seek out the assistance of others when the decisions really matter.

    We're all in this alone.

    Life isn't a team sport.

    It's a one vs. all competition.

    (Yes, I'll definitely get some hate for saying that).

    Be strong.

    Find your own way.



    And... Don't be a fish... Looking for something shiny...

    What happens to fish who bite shiny stuff?

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  • Profile picture of the author maxjpip
    I understand your feeling, I was just like you the past 3 years.

    Stop spending money on new coaching program now.

    Since you have bought some programs, you can review them once again and get out as much information and knowledge as possible from them.

    There's no right or wrong way to do IM, it's what works for you and what makes others successful.

    Write down what you know on a paper and organize them.

    You are very close to success now just push it.

    Don't waste any more money until you find the system that works for you.

    And invest money to things that only benefits your system.

    "Never Let a Stumble on the Road be the End of Your Journey"
    Signature

    #
    #
    # Product + System + Traffic = ??
    #
    #

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  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    Build a platform.

    Then, create the presence and authority that you want to see.

    If you see something that you feel should be addressed or changed, what is stopping you from doing that?

    The written word is a powerful thing. Start blogging from your heart, and you may just gain a following and truly be able to help people in the way it seems you would like.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    I like what soldier says.

    "build"
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  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    I've been reading the blog of a gentleman named Michael Hyatt alot lately. He speaks alot about platform building. His blog may be a great place to digest some information.
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  • Profile picture of the author cupcakemonster
    If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?

    Would they really want to spend the time and effort to try and help to change our lives? or they really just want us to buy something from them?


    That's kind of not the question you should be asking. Maybe some of them are sincere. Maybe some of them aren't. It doesn't really matter.

    The only thing that matters is if you want to change your life and build something for yourself. You're the only can who can do that.

    I don't know why, but I'm starting to lose the trust in this IM industry..

    I'm not saying one
    must help someone (because that's just not compulsory), but is this a path (must work out things on themselves) that every IMer must go through?

    Actually, I think it is a very basic need in all of us to want to help someone. People want to give you advice and want to help you out. If you look for it, that help is often totally and completely FREE.

    But another person can only help you to an extent. IM takes time and effort - all of which you have to put into it. That's the path that every IMer has to go through.

    People say, "You need a mentor, or coach" Really? They're trying to help or they're trying to earn the last bit of money you've got?

    It'd be nice to have a mentor or coach, but I'd honestly wait until I'm earning a good amount on my own and sort of know what I'm doing before I seek out a coach.

    Once you actually know how things work, you'll be much better equipped to find the people who can actually help you and see through the bullsh*t of those who just want your money.

    I've joined several coaching programs, and all there are just some 50 x 1 hour videos, that's impossible to finish learning (especially if you're frustrated about your financial status).

    Forget the coaching programs. Decide what course of action you want to pursue and pursue it.

    If you're in very dire financial straits, IM is not the way to go. It could take months to start seeing money with IM and you need the ability to work patiently and persistently throughout those months, often without any rewards to show for it. That's hard to do when you're hurting for money.

    I'd suggest taking a part-time job to keep yourself afloat and not worried about money while doing IM full-time.

    Taking action is important. What if taking action in the wrong direction? That's only wasting more time, wasting my last bit of money and killing the faith...

    Yea, sometimes the action is wrong. And that sucks. But you mess up and you learn from it. Just do the best you can to research your ideas before you implement them. Give each project or endeavor a set amount of time so you're not spending infinite amounts of time on each time.


    I know I'm frustrated (have already gone through, What to do if frustrated), but I don't expect any of you to help me, just want to share my opinions.....[/QUOTE]
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  • Profile picture of the author ConnerHogan
    Don't use a mentor, or a coach. This is a bad idea once you understand why. You cannot duplicate these "systems" that others use. So every product page you read is just trying to sell you info.

    As far as the taking action goes, it is the only thing that separates success from failure. You have probably herd this a million times, you can only fail if you quit. If you keep trying you will find what you are looking for. That is a fact, if you try hard enough you will succeed.

    The trust in this industry is in the information. Each leader holds a different piece of the puzzle. Once you understand all the pieces then you can make the 6 and 7 figure incomes. But you will have to pay for the info. Don't worry, the money you pay will give you back ten fold in the end.

    As far as what you are feeling goes, everyone who starts a business online feels the exact same way. I did, and probably every single user on this site has felt it. Or they will soon.

    This feeling normally comes just before success. Another funny fact, 90% of people quit what they are trying just before they succeed.

    If you still can't pick yourself up, try this.

    You are not taking any steps someone before you has taken. You are not competing with super humans, they are just normal people. The only thing they have is more education in their field.

    Good luck, and don't give up. Nothing worth having comes easy.

    Personally, the extreme stress, and worry about what you are doing, is your mind rewiring how it thinks. That is how a person become better, stronger, smarter, and successful. So if you are stressed, I would bet money you are doing everything correctly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Miguelito203
    Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

    If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?

    Would they really want to spend the time and effort to try and help to change our lives? or they really just want us to buy something from them?

    I don't know why, but I'm starting to lose the trust in this IM industry..

    I'm not saying one must help someone (because that's just not compulsory), but is this a path (must work out things on themselves) that every IMer must go through?

    People say, "You need a mentor, or coach" Really? They're trying to help or they're trying to earn the last bit of money you've got?

    I've joined several coaching programs, and all there are just some 50 x 1 hour videos, that's impossible to finish learning (especially if you're frustrated about your financial status).

    Taking action is important. What if taking action in the wrong direction? That's only wasting more time, wasting my last bit of money and killing the faith...

    I know I'm frustrated (have already gone through, What to do if frustrated), but I don't expect any of you to help me, just want to share my opinions.....
    There's a lot of crap out there. At the same time, though, there are legit marketers teaching real stuff. Through the years, I've heard of some legit coaching programs that have come out, but I would say that those are a necessity to make it online.

    Making it online is more about finding a legit business model you're interested in, a legit program that teaches said business model, and putting in the work. One of the things that a lot of newbies don't realize is that the marketers that make it big in this industry spend years doing it.

    Good luck,
    Joey
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post


    I know I'm frustrated (have already gone through, What to do if frustrated), but I don't expect any of you to help me, just want to share my opinions.....
    There is a lot of misinformation and many dishonest marketers take advantage of the newbies' ignorance. They also take advantage of their intense desire to succeed online, but the truth is that internet marketing is complicated and depends on numerous details.

    You have to be able to drive targeted traffic to your website, but this is not enough, even though it already is quite difficult because there is fierce competition everywhere.

    You also have to be able to convert your visitors into buyers. Nothing is simple.

    So, don't think that one WSO or one mentor can teach you everything you need. This is an illusion. You have to study a lot by yourself. The impression that making money online is simple is totally false. You must know many things if you want to work online and if you want to be trusted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
    I understand your frustration and it is very common, especially after trying different things and not getting the results you expected then be faced with contradictory information and just plain overload of suggestions and information.

    Information which you probably don't need to know and has nothing to do with actually making any money.

    99% of the "mentorship / coaching" programs in the IM field are going to be multimedia presentations. Very few people have the patience to actually work one on one with someone or multiple someone's. If they do it is in a group type of setting via some video conferencing or the old school teleconferences.

    Let me guess the programs you signed up taught things like how to FTP, setting up websites or membership sites and maybe offer some ready made system of some sort you just upload to your own hosting or for a monthly fee use their hosted solutions?

    Most have some setup like this, usually to catch people like you and then after awhile when the money spent out weighs what is coming in then buyers remorse sets in.

    Not sure if this will make you feel better or not but most of the talk in the sales letters for programs like this is just hot air. The refund rates are rather high on these type of programs so don't let the nice easy language sway you.

    I have personally built many programs like this for IM clients in the past and I can tell you the reason I no longer accept clients like these is because of the bullshit that goes on to mislead people. Hell over half my clients never even got around to completing the product before selling out the cheap seats. Then never got around to finishing the products at all and took the "profits" and started up another similar program talking about how successful they were and how X amount people loved the last program. Many of the testimonials came from real people encouraged to create a testimonial but usually these were the highend VIP customers that got preferred treatment due to the $$$ they spent.

    Do people that run these programs have your best interest in mind? Not really. They will offer what they say they will but in the end if you are not a go-getter that can make things happen with little input then the blame usually lands on you and it was your fault you didn't succeed.

    On the other hand though many people expect to pay $50 or $100 for coaching and feel cheated when they don't get 24 x 7 access at a drop of the hat and have everything done for them.

    The good coaches / mentors you would really love to work with and really see the results from working with them charge on the low end $2500 and up on a monthly schedule. One excellent mentor I personally know charges over $40,000 for his cheapest program and $4,000 a month if you just want to try it out. His clients consistently reports earning 5 and 6 figures monthly.

    Though in the IM world where you have everyone talking about setting up blogs and content sites and social media and teaching as the best way to make money even though they themselves don't know how to actually do a hell of a lot... programs like that sure $20 to $100 and you get 50 x 1 hour videos.

    Depends what you want I guess and are willing to do.

    You haven't actually shared what it is you have tried and isn't working for you so I can't provide any specific suggestions to help you but here is some advice.

    Decide how much money you want to make.

    When you want to make it and reasonable expect that result. 3 days to make $10k without any previous experience or knowledge to do that is unrealistic keep it simple and reasonable time frame.

    Some will say site quiet in the center of your room and meditate and ask god or whoever to send you the money and let LOA provide. If that works for you then great, do that. Most people it doesn't so again be reasonable with your expectations.

    Decide what method you want to use and then do a search here in the forums and search engines about that method and learn just enough to get yourself started. If you already started and it isn't working, be more specific with your questions and I am sure at least a few people will be able to help.

    If you don't want to make it public especially with your sites then find someone that seems to know what they are doing and ask them to guide you. Don't expect them to do it for free, they have bills and need to eat too but find someone that you feel comfortable with and see if they have any suggestions.
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  • Maybe you can start modelling the big boys...and build something...making money online is not as fast as it used to be.... you need high converting offer and traffic that converts to that offer.... these are easy things to say but ....is a bit like finding x marks the spot.... develop your own brand and following...this takes time but not as long as a 30 year working life saving one million dollars in a 401k.
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  • Profile picture of the author Micah Medina
    I've joined several coaching programs, and all there are just some 50 x 1 hour videos, that's impossible to finish learning (especially if you're frustrated about your financial status).
    How much of it did you do?

    How much money did you make?

    Did you talk to the coaches about your struggles?

    What did they tell you to do? Did you do it?

    How rich do you expect to become if it's impossible for you to learn while frustrated?

    Have you considered the possibility that if you've bought into multiple courses and haven't made anything the problem isn't the courses?

    I mean, that's the tough love response, take it or leave it. :/
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    • Profile picture of the author Ellie Days
      Originally Posted by Terry Crim View Post

      ...Decide what method you want to use and then do a search here in the forums and search engines about that method and learn just enough to get yourself started. If you already started and it isn't working, be more specific with your questions and I am sure at least a few people will be able to help.

      If you don't want to make it public especially with your sites then find someone that seems to know what they are doing and ask them to guide you. Don't expect them to do it for free, they have bills and need to eat too but find someone that you feel comfortable with and see if they have any suggestions.
      Thank you for your kind words, you made me think alot while reading.


      Originally Posted by MKCookins View Post

      I find the best way to provide value to people is to show them results that you have gotten personally and how you went about getting them.

      For example if you were in the IM niche teaching people how to drive traffic -- you could do a video series or ebook about generating traffic from Pinterest.

      Show them the actual stats you got, and what you did to get those stats.

      Hope this helps
      I know this tactic, and sure, I'd love to provide values by sharing my results to people, but.. how can I do this when I don't even have any results yet?


      Originally Posted by Micah Medina View Post

      How much of it did you do?

      How much money did you make?

      Did you talk to the coaches about your struggles?

      What did they tell you to do? Did you do it?

      How rich do you expect to become if it's impossible for you to learn while frustrated?

      Have you considered the possibility that if you've bought into multiple courses and haven't made anything the problem isn't the courses?

      I mean, that's the tough love response, take it or leave it. :/
      I've done pretty much everything (even though I know I shouldn't jump around, but it's to prove that I've been treating this as a business not hobby), inclucing affliate marketing (no sales), listbuilding (no traffic, no open rates), facebook ads (wasted so much money), CPA (unstable), product launch (one negative testimonial ruins all), video marketing (no conversion), website flipping (got ripped off by flippa)... I think I did a lot from the past 2-3 years. I haven't give up yet, and still trying.

      I made less than $3000 since the very beginning.

      My coach disappeared after a while when I told him my concerns.....

      They told me to create a product, I did it, but I haven't launched it yet, because I don't have any money to test it to see if it works or not.

      My expectation from online income is to achieve $100/day.

      I have bought multiple courses (two to be exact), and both of them pretty much are just a bunch of videos, teach basic stuffs that I already know. I believe the courses don't have any problem, the problem should be the mentors.
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      • Profile picture of the author clever7
        Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

        I've done pretty much everything (even though I know I shouldn't jump around, but it's to prove that I've been treating this as a business not hobby), inclucing affliate marketing (no sales), listbuilding (no traffic, no open rates), facebook ads (wasted so much money), CPA (unstable), product launch (one negative testimonial ruins all), video marketing (no conversion), website flipping (got ripped off by flippa)... I think I did a lot from the past 2-3 years. I haven't give up yet, and still trying.

        I made less than $3000 since the very beginning.

        My coach disappeared after a while when I told him my concerns.....

        They told me to create a product, I did it, but I haven't launched it yet, because I don't have any money to test it to see if it works or not.

        My expectation from online income is to achieve $100/day.

        I have bought multiple courses (two to be exact), and both of them pretty much are just a bunch of videos, teach basic stuffs that I already know. I believe the courses don't have any problem, the problem should be the mentors.
        Selling products online is very hard because of the fierce competition, especially if you don't have a good marketing plan and you are ignorant.

        You should learn how to make money by offering services, without depending only on selling. It is easier to make money this way. There is competition everywhere, but if you will persist you will manage to have your customers. Can you write articles? Can you create videos?

        You can use your knowledge to make money by offering services besides trying to sell affiliate products and launch your own product.

        You should have many different income streams. One of them will be your best one, but the other ones will help you a lot, especially when the best one won't work as it usually does.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lynn Terry
    Hi Ellie,

    The "IM Space" frustrates me too, and I've been involved in it for around 16 years, and blogging IM for more than 9. You're not alone. Just remember there's an entire internet out there where real people buy real products - and that's where it gets fun!

    Consider your own internet use and buying habits. I am my own target market in my niches (I have a low carb blog for example). That project is SO much more fun for me personally, and outside the "IM Noise". Find something like that for yourself where you can really shine, and not spend all day bombarded by big read headlines. *cheers*
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    • Profile picture of the author THK
      Originally Posted by Lynn Terry View Post

      ...

      Consider your own internet use and buying habits. I am my own target market in my niches (I have a low carb blog for example). That project is SO much more fun for me personally, and outside the "IM Noise". Find something like that for yourself where you can really shine, and not spend all day bombarded by big read headlines. *cheers*
      Instead of reading wso threads read those few sentences I quoted. Especially the first sentence. And think about it a bit.

      It should give you some ideas/direction.

      All the best

      Tanvir
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  • Profile picture of the author LimitlessTraffic
    I'm sorry if I am coming in on this on a different angle but I think this thread is ridiculous.

    Of course the IM niche, coaching program, WSO and all that will benefit the vendors. It's just simple life. They sell, we buy, simple! You can choose NOT to buy and learn from WF itself.

    Also, you can't possibly bash mentors for your financial status. Just think of it as College. They can only guide you and give advice. The rest is up to you.

    You said you have bought only 2 courses but have been in the game for 2-3 years. That is considerably VERY VERY VERY less compare to almost everyone else out there.

    My 2 cent is this. Stop jumping around different methods, choose one and STICK to one! Spend a day or two and do as much research as you possible can about that particular method. Set a budget, say $200. Then take action! If you're at a loss. study WHY you couldn't profit and TRY again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ellie Days
      Originally Posted by LimitlessTraffic View Post

      I'm sorry if I am coming in on this on a different angle but I think this thread is ridiculous.

      Of course the IM niche, coaching program, WSO and all that will benefit the vendors. It's just simple life. They sell, we buy, simple! You can choose NOT to buy and learn from WF itself.

      Also, you can't possibly bash mentors for your financial status. Just think of it as College. They can only guide you and give advice. The rest is up to you.

      You said you have bought only 2 courses but have been in the game for 2-3 years. That is considerably VERY VERY VERY less compare to almost everyone else out there.

      My 2 cent is this. Stop jumping around different methods, choose one and STICK to one! Spend a day or two and do as much research as you possible can about that particular method. Set a budget, say $200. Then take action! If you're at a loss. study WHY you couldn't profit and TRY again.
      The 2 courses were referring to coaching programs. For products, much more than that.....

      But thanks, thanks for your words. I welcome all positive and negative comments!

      Also thanks for your 2 cents, I loved it!
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  • Profile picture of the author mohsinmallik
    Personally, I hate mentors. Because even if they are well versed about IM, they are not going to reveal everything to you. They will ask you for money different ways. I also got frustrated at one time after these kind of frauds. They always wants to get paid. But whatever I am till now, because I had self believe.

    I started doing everything myself. Whenever I got stuck at something, I went to Google (still I do so). Believe me, I learned a lot in just 3 months what my mentor could not teach me at 6 months.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Newman
    I can relate to your frustrations, but I think it is better to think that the problem is with your approach! Please hear me out.

    If you think the problem is with the industry, the coaches, the products...you're actually dis-empowering yourself. There are a lot of people making money in IM, and so can you. I have been on the WF since 2009, I started making money when I focused on ONE thing --- offering a service. Are there challenges? Yes. Am I going to blame anyone? NO.

    I am currently trying to explore some other areas, I have a coach, and I have met with a few challenges, but I won't play the blame game. I won't be daunted by the challenges. I'm going to be focused until I reach my goals. A coach, a book, products are just aids...YOU are the most important variable in your quest for success.

    If others are making money, there is no reason why you can't. I believe it's critical that we continuosly work on our mindsets. T. Harv Eker's deceptively simple book: Secrets of the Millionaire Mind, has become one of my fave companions. Please read Rich Schefren's INTERNET BUSINESS MANIFESTO (free to download). You'd probably come away with ''new eyes''...and a better understanding of why most people flounder...and why only a tiny few reach the promised land.

    The problem is not out there.

    Best wishes.
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  • Profile picture of the author dwakeman
    Ellie, I know what you are talking about. There are many people out there just trying to make a buck promoting anything and everything under the sun.

    It is very frustrating. The first think you need to do is decide what you have or want to offer and who's your target audience. More than likely your audience will people like yourself. Then take time to understand what it is you are looking for and do the research. Start building your credibility by providing valuable insight to others from your research.

    Stop listening to all of those promotions for plugins, themes and easy button processes. More than likely they are just going to drain your bank account and make it to the digital junk yard. I am not saying that some of those products aren't good, but if you don't know how you are going to use them for your vision, then they are not worth the money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Newman
    I noticed that you're not a member of the war room. Inside the WR, you'll find so many high quality resources...free of charge. So, you can focus on building your business, without spending too much- You'll need to be selective, or the sheer abundance could become another problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnnyG11k
    hi Ellie

    I'm not here to help you; everyone needs to help himself or herself. Find one mentor/coach -- someone whom you feel comfortable learning from. Study his methods, and adapt it to your own project and personality

    Don't buy other products, as you'll get contradictory information. Why? Because each person has its own methods of generating traffic, promoting products or selling stuff online. You need to find what works for you, then rinse and repeat on a major level.

    Once you've found a method which makes $100 a month, it's time to leverage other people's money, traffic, skills, and more importantly, outsource your tasks. That's the only way to grow a business and make money online.

    It's like an orchestra. You cannot and never will do it all by yourself

    Hope it helps?
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    This NICHE made me $300,000...
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

    If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?

    Would they really want to spend the time and effort to try and help to change our lives? or they really just want us to buy something from them?
    It's all about selling a product. The retired investment banker who made millions on Wall Street and now spends his time donating time and money to non-profits is "giving back" - the Internet marketer selling a product isn't giving back anything, it's mass marketing a strategy.

    If I sat in front of a screen all day executing one of my own strategies, I might make an extra $7,000 or so, but here's the thing ... that isn't appealing to me. Those days are behind me, but for some people that would be a dream job. For me, I'd rather teach you and 2,499 other people how to do it at $18 per copy and make $45,000 right now.

    Which is what everyone selling a WSO that actually works is doing, but for some reason very few are honest about it and want to pretend they're "giving back". If they were truly "giving back" they would be GIVING, not selling.

    I'll tell you what, shoot me a PM and I'll give you one of my books. It's only 20 pages and will teach you a new way to do something you might not have thought of. If you know how to use Google AdWords or want to take the time to learn it, you can make a full time income with it. No strings, no upsells, no videos, and no benefit to me whether you use it or not. Just figured I'd throw you a bone so you don't lose faith in the ENTIRE community. There are good people here, but there are also scammers so it's easy to get lost.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lynn Terry
    There's some really good advice in this thread. The key point is:

    Stop looking for the answers outside of yourself. That's an employee mindset - looking for a blueprint, being told what to do (and how and when), etc. Get into an entrepreneur mindset and look for the answers inside your own head!

    It doesn't really matter what everyone else is doing. What matters is what YOU are doing.

    *cheers*
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    • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168


      the hard truth..

      if a person make tons of money easily from internet marketing and he/she already know the loophole....will he/she disclose easily?

      even he/she start to sell their menthod...only perhaps just tell 10 % of it..

      90 % still a secret for themselves...

      this is how I feel....
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  • Profile picture of the author prateek9118
    Yes! most people are misguided in IM. I mean, if 10k people say same thing that doesn't mean it is correct.
    I was actually lucky (I guess, after reading this thread) that I found a great mentor and I was able to get results after 3 months. Yes! lot of hardwork was also involved. I read a lot of books myself and realized that many people don't understand how traffic works.
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  • Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

    If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?

    Would they really want to spend the time and effort to try and help to change our lives? or they really just want us to buy something from them?
    Make no mistake: no one takes the effort to create and run a coaching program (or any product) just because they're good Samaritans (aka "I want to give back and help others"). Come on, you know better than that... The only REAL reason someone goes through the hassle of it all is to earn money. Period. Why? because "coaching" and "selling the system" is usually easier than "doing" and "executing the system". Kinda like selling shovels during the gold rush instead as opposed to digging at the mine. Nothing wrong with selling coaching services, but I dislike when they're unnecessarily sugar coated.

    Anyway, here's one of the most valuable lessons in Internet Marketing: in this market, just like in any market, you're either buying or selling. If you find yourself more on the buyer's side, then you're in the wrong side of this game. Stop buying, and start creating and selling. It's the ONLY way to ultimately make money online.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Elle, start with the phrase "sales pages"...

      Their sole reason for existence is to separate you from your money. And, yes, the cliche about "I just want to help you" is so overused and overtired that it almost becomes its own parody. People "in the business" know the score and become even more sensitive to it, until they also get bored and jaded.

      Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

      Okay you old warriors I am about to give my gold rush speach.

      Instead of marketing products of others, become a teacher and sell shovels to them.
      The old shovel trick.
      In about 1849 we had the gold rush days. Everyone flocked to California to pan for gold.
      Very few made it rich but one group of these people did make alot of money and usually never struck gold. They were the shovel sellers.
      You know who ended up with the gold from both the prospectors/miners AND the shovel sellers? The service providers - the store keepers, hotels, laundries and "houses of ill repute."

      The pictures are on an old hard drive and I'm too lazy to remount it just for this, but I have historical photos from gold rush boom towns showing eggs at $5 each, laundry at $10/week, and "good times" for the equivalent of a week's pay in those days.

      These days, in the ol' IM/MMO space, these would be outfits like Clickbank, PayPal, Aweber and kin, etc. selling to both the "prospectors" and the "shovel sellers"...
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        You know who ended up with the gold from both the prospectors/miners AND the shovel sellers? The service providers - the store keepers, hotels, laundries and "houses of ill repute."
        John,

        No wonder you have chosen to go with "Happy Hooker." LOL

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      Make no mistake: no one takes the effort to create and run a coaching program (or any product) just because they're good Samaritans (aka "I want to give back and help others"). Come on, you know better than that... The only REAL reason someone goes through the hassle of it all is to earn money. Period. Why? because "coaching" and "selling the system" is usually easier than "doing" and "executing the system". Kinda like selling shovels during the gold rush instead as opposed to digging at the mine. Nothing wrong with selling coaching services, but I dislike when they're unnecessarily sugar coated.

      Anyway, here's one of the most valuable lessons in Internet Marketing: in this market, just like in any market, you're either buying or selling. If you find yourself more on the buyer's side, then you're in the wrong side of this game. Stop buying, and start creating and selling. It's the ONLY way to ultimately make money online.
      Every now and again I read a post at WF that is so honest, to the point, and 100% useful that I have to stand and applaud. This is one of those times
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    I "followed my passion" when I signed up for anthropology and archaeology classes. Figured they'd issue me a bullwhip and a Fedora and send me off on some adventure... instead, I got to set up a grid and dig in the dirt all day for pottery shards, and the promise of maybe a $30,000 salary - unless I wanted to do site surveys for Walmart to make sure they weren't about to build a Supercenter on top of Native American remains... then I could make $45k.

    I quit and decided to follow the money instead.
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  • Profile picture of the author John_3771
    Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

    If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?

    Would they really want to spend the time and effort to try and help to change our lives? or they really just want us to buy something from them?

    I don't know why, but I'm starting to lose the trust in this IM industry..

    I'm not saying one must help someone (because that's just not compulsory), but is this a path (must work out things on themselves) that every IMer must go through?

    People say, "You need a mentor, or coach" Really? They're trying to help or they're trying to earn the last bit of money you've got?

    I've joined several coaching programs, and all there are just some 50 x 1 hour videos, that's impossible to finish learning (especially if you're frustrated about your financial status).

    Taking action is important. What if taking action in the wrong direction? That's only wasting more time, wasting my last bit of money and killing the faith...

    I know I'm frustrated (have already gone through, What to do if frustrated), but I don't expect any of you to help me, just want to share my opinions.....
    Did you just come from the WSO forum? Haha, I'm just kidding I've bought good WSO's in the past.

    Let me first by saying that I'm an info product creator and coach. The first point that needs to be made that not all info product creators and coaches are the same:

    1.) No Refund Policy - I have never not offered one on any of my products and I never buy products that don't have one. If they don't honor their refund policy, then that is another story and that is on the info product creator or coach and payment processor.

    2.) Poor Customer Service - There is no reason for not having decent customer service. If you can't provide that yourself then you need to outsource it. I can't excuse other info product creators or coaches, then that is on them. Sadly, this is a big problem in the industry, especially with the huge launches. I'm not saying that all of them have problems, but I hear a lot of complaints about them.

    3.) Bad Products - It's simple if you buy a product and it stinks and you don't think that it is worth the money, then ask for refund. The vast majority of the time it will get honored and you have your money back and you can move on. Yeah, you wasted some time viewing the product, but I've wasted countless hours reading forum posts about making money online in my lifetime. Not saying all posts are bad or anything like that, but I've read my fair share of crap.

    4.) Nobody Makes Your Buy - I know that we hire or write some slick sales copy, but at the end of the day we don't make you buy our products. If you don't have the money to buy the product, then leave the sales page and educate yourself for free or at a lower price with another product. Over 90% of the people who visit my sales pages don't buy my products. I'm completely fine with that, it wasn't for them or they didn't have the money or my sales page didn't convert them. After that, the people who purchase my product and don't like it and asks for a refund, I've always refunded them with no questions asked, as long as it is in the time-frame stated on the sales page and I've never had a problem after that.

    5.) Coaching Programs Aren't Equal - I'm not saying this to boost my coaching and self-promote, but my understanding of a coach is that they will provide their personal e-mail address or skype or phone etc. They will answer every e-mail or message in a timely manner. I do my coaching through e-mail and always reply to my e-mails from students within 24 hours. If I wanted to join a coaching program I wouldn't join one that didn't offer this. All of the great content that coaching program provides can be great, but to me the real value is being able to ask questions and have them answered because every online business is different and has unique problems.

    6.) I Value My Time - Sure I give away a lot of advice and reports for free, but I still value my time. I have spent over 7 years learning about Internet Marketing. I have investing a ton of time and money into this over the years. I've applied so many different ways to make money online that I've forgot many of them. This was real world trial and error and if I want to sit down and write a report or e-book or coaching program and charge people for it, I feel like I have the right to do that. It is done in about any niche market that you can think of. There are hardcover books, e-books, videos etc. that are sold in a wide array of niches, not just the make money online niche, obviously.

    7.) You Can Have Your Cake and Eat it Too - I feel like people are really happy that they bought my products, for the most part, I covered how I always give refunds if they're asked for. I get plenty of positive reviews and that is very rewarding for me. I love helping people. I can also sleep at night because the prices have come down quite a bit in the make money online niche. Now, I know there are plenty of high-priced products out there, but you should of seen The WSO Forum years ago. It wasn't uncommon for you to see $47 or $97 price points right and left. Now, I seen a ton of products for $7 or less and the vast majority of them have a refund policy, so in that regard, it has gotten much more reasonable.

    I hope that helps explain the other side of this topic and I wish you all the success in the future!
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    but I.M what?

    what product/service do you "market"?

    "get rich quick products?"
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  • Profile picture of the author koppster
    I found out when i focus on one niche it keps me centered.
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  • Profile picture of the author jessegilbert
    I think marketing is 90% mental...It doesn't matter if you have the skills if you don't have the confidence to market yourself correctly. A lot of brilliant people out there...many not making lots of money though...Maybe read some more books about positive thinking, visualization etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggerDeen
    I was into habit of buying every wso. Frustration is part of IM journey and the reason why there are so low number of successful marketers. When I started I had no help from anyone, it took me years to reach where I am today. The lesson a newbie need to learn is: "Its not easy, it just looks easy"

    Just register a domain, build backlinks or outsource backlinking and that's it. Sound quite easy compared to 9 to 5 job. But behind the scene, things are much uglier and frustration is at every step.
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    • Originally Posted by BloggerDeen View Post

      The lesson a newbie need to learn is: "Its not easy, it just looks easy"
      Most people don't understand the difference between "Easy" and "Simple". Making money online is simple, but it's not easy. The basic principles are actually pretty straight forward and it doesn't take a genius to figure out... it's just that putting it all together is not easy.

      It's like losing weight: it's VERY simple (exercise more and eat healthier), but it NOT easy. Well, making money online is no different.
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      • Profile picture of the author Darrin Bentley
        Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

        Most people don't understand the difference between "Easy" and "Simple". Making money online is simple, but it's not easy.
        Although I'm a COMPLETE newbie here...I have to disagree with that statement. I think it's much easier to fail in this business then it is to succeed. I think it probably is easy to make a little money online but in order to make anything significant, one has to have a VERY deep understanding of this (or any other) business. While that may be easy for a few, it's more difficult for most.
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        A sucker MAY be born every minute, but that don't mean you have to take advantage of them.

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    • Profile picture of the author jmorgan684
      Thanks for your comment.
      I have been struggling to get going as a IM.I have been frustrated alot here lately but I keep coming back.It sounds as though you have finally "cracked the code".
      Is there any advice you could give a beginner?And do I need a mentor/trainer?
      Could you direct me to a coach that works well with beginners? I really am determined to make this work , any words of direction you could share.Thanks X 1K!
      Jlmorgan684
      I
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  • Profile picture of the author Tjalling
    Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

    If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?
    Partly true yes! Watch the main page and you will see that the WSO part of the forum ALWAYS has the most viewers. This is because people EXPECT to find the best information there. This isn't true. I'd even say that the better value has been posted for free. Those posts are made by persons that are really ''giving back'' without needing something in return.

    Because this is the #1 IM marketing forum it's also a good place for people to market their own IM related products. It's that simple.

    Just quit spending your money on the WSO's and trainings and just read all of the free stuff.

    I'll give you one of my golden nuggets. And guess what? it's free. Watch below.

    *You can find the top posts in any section by pasting the following code after the URL:
    Code:
    ?daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=voteavg


    And yes, most of those posts are about 2 years old. But still very valuable. Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author nickjay
    Stop whining, get off this forum and do so some work. You know what has to be done, you've already made $3000 so you know what works for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Darrin Bentley
    Originally Posted by Art of Marketing View Post

    Marketing is no different than any other business.
    BINGO!!!!!
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    A sucker MAY be born every minute, but that don't mean you have to take advantage of them.

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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    The biggest problem of all?

    TOO MUCH information is easily available.

    People get caught up in research and bouncing from idea to idea prematurely, paralysis by analysis, instead of getting out and taking action, gaining experience, getting feet wet.

    Also, its easier to start in a niche that you have experience in, or have an interest in, not necessarily just because you think there's money in it.
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    • Profile picture of the author TopWebZone
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      Selling products online is very hard because of the fierce competition, especially if you don't have a good marketing plan and you are ignorant.

      You should learn how to make money by offering services, without depending only on selling. It is easier to make money this way. There is competition everywhere, but if you will persist you will manage to have your customers. Can you write articles? Can you create videos?

      You can use your knowledge to make money by offering services besides trying to sell affiliate products and launch your own product.

      You should have many different income streams. One of them will be your best one, but the other ones will help you a lot, especially when the best one won't work as it usually does.
      I totally agree with 'you should have many different income streams'. It's like the old stock investment portfolio saying: 'Never keep all of your eggs in one basket'. The more you diversify your online products and/or services, the more probability that one of them will become successful.
      So ya, I would say diversity and perseverance are two big factors.
      Now I'm off to try and practice what I preach :-)
      Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author TheInternet
    Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

    [...]

    I don't know why, but I'm starting to lose the trust in this IM industry..
    [...]
    You're more patient than I am. 99% of "Internet marketing" is people trying to fluff up what should be a simple and straightforward thing for their own enrichment.

    (Almost) All of IM in five bullet points:
    1. Find people who need a thing (market research)
    2. Get them on a list (newsletter/social media/RSS/whatever)
    3. Talk to them about the thing (product development)
    4. Make the thing
    5. Tell them that the thing is available for purchase
    There are little things here and there that can improve your results, and there are people trying to sell products around that, but they're few and far between. The fundamentals don't cost anything to learn, and they can take you far if you're mindful and persistent.

    Unfortunately, I don't have much specific advice for you. Every little bit of success I've had comes from having a decently large social media platform and years of copywriting experience. I don't know of a shortcut to bring all that to someone in a quicker timeframe.

    I guess if I were going to give advice, I would say ditch IM as a community and focus on IM as a means to an end. What do you want to make? Take your interests and start a blog. Start building a list for it. Use MailChimp and its free 2000 subscribers and ignore the haters.

    Use blogspot or WordPress.com if you don't want to shell out for hosting. Who cares if MailChimp and free blog hosting is counter to the Standard IM Philosophy™? You weren't getting results with the Standard IM Philosophy™

    Maybe it's not a way that's right for you. I know it's not for me. Sometimes a lack of confidence is your brain's way of telling you you're on the wrong path.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lynn Terry
      Originally Posted by TheInternet View Post

      Sometimes a lack of confidence is your brain's way of telling you you're on the wrong path.
      Very good point to bring up in this discussion. SO true.
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  • Profile picture of the author imperets
    I have to agree with those, who said that your business model had to be unique.

    Many WSOs tend to preach different variations of the same theme. A good portion of those systems have never been actually tested. Not only could this waste you money, more importantly, it will be a huge time sink if you decide to implement the discussed strategies.

    This is one of the dangers of this market.

    Also, I've seen people that sell coaching make ridiculous claims, like earning 6 figures within the first month. When I see claims like that, I just laugh. The only feasible way to earn that much is to create a truly amazing product, build a highly effective marketing funnel and employ an army of well-experienced affiliates. I seriously doubt that any coaching programme can help you do that in one month.

    And finally, decide for yourself WHY you want to be involved in this business. I know what I am here for, and that drives me onwards and motivates me to keep going no matter what. Sometimes I hit a bump and even fall, but then I get up and continue moving forward. If I was doing this just for the sakes of making money, I would have quit ages ago.
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  • Profile picture of the author rdpayne
    Truth #1: Some people make money doing perpetual product launches - selling systems that they have never really used themselves

    Truth #2: Some people only sell their knowledge after the system has become saturated or ineffective

    Truth #3: Many "gurus" make more money doing JV deals to sell their systems than by actually using their systems

    A lot of the advice so far in this thread is rather vague. I know you want a solid paint-by-the-numbers money-making system.

    I once asked a millionaire what I should do to make money. His answer: Find something that you like to do and that you're good at, and start your own business.

    Take what you have learned during your IM adventures and see if you can apply it to the above formula. One example I can point to is Michelle Phan. She started out posting make-up tutorials on YouTube. Five years later, she's a millionaire with her own make-up line.

    Hope that helps.


    --Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author mrtonyp29
    Hello,

    I know what your going through. I have been there at least twice. My best advice with you is do not give up. I would recommend try Russ Rufino's Money Tree Method and his coaching program, also Mike Thomas. You need to figure out what works for you. But try not to quit your day job just yet (knowing if you do have one to keep up with marketing).
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  • Profile picture of the author ragstworiches
    I don't think I've ever bought an IM book or coaching program. I'm sure some have some substance though and can give you a short cut to info that is available for everyone for free.

    It really comes down to this:

    1.Pick your niche (Ideally something you have a knowledge/passion about and is commercially viable)
    2.Research your competitors (How are they making money, buy their products, research their sales funnel)
    3. Choose an idea (can be similar to a competitors, but ideally better or offering a USP)
    4. Promote that Idea (Always the toughest area falls under seo, ppc, facebook ads, affiliate marketing, display ads)

    Just google something or ask on this forum if you don't know how to do something, its all free.

    A few free resources I like, copyblogger.com, smartinsights.com, Seth's Blog

    Phil
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  • Profile picture of the author Moneymaker2012
    You spend lot of money on gurus, mentors and coaching programmes, I see your mistake, when you only listen to people and don't take action, where do you expect to be in IM?
    From now if you stop taking advices and start taking actions, you'll find yourself in a different situation soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Batty
    Hey Ellie,

    There is so much good advice in this thread it should be mandatory reading o all IM newcomers. Could save them a lot of frustration.

    Basically from my point of view making money online comes down to a few relatively basic things.

    1) Undrestand yourself, your needs, desires, problems, and problems you've overcome
    2) try to establish a target market that is someone similar to you.
    3) understand the 5 to 10 problems that target market is having
    4) select or create a product that solves those problems.
    5) market the solutions to the problems through the whatever media the target market reads / views

    Sometimes we get so caught up in all the jumble here on WF we lose site of the basics.

    I know I did.

    But once I took a step back and though of the above, I took off and am now running at a 7K per month clip in my 2 online business.

    Good luck to you Ellie..

    Patrick
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  • Profile picture of the author iLinkedin
    Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

    If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?

    Would they really want to spend the time and effort to try and help to change our lives? or they really just want us to buy something from them?

    I don't know why, but I'm starting to lose the trust in this IM industry..

    I'm not saying one must help someone (because that's just not compulsory), but is this a path (must work out things on themselves) that every IMer must go through?

    People say, "You need a mentor, or coach" Really? They're trying to help or they're trying to earn the last bit of money you've got?

    I've joined several coaching programs, and all there are just some 50 x 1 hour videos, that's impossible to finish learning (especially if you're frustrated about your financial status).

    Taking action is important. What if taking action in the wrong direction? That's only wasting more time, wasting my last bit of money and killing the faith...

    I know I'm frustrated (have already gone through, What to do if frustrated), but I don't expect any of you to help me, just want to share my opinions.....
    Yes i think good product is one that let's you action almost instantly with enthusiasm.
    I definitely will create 1 that will help people literally.
    Regards,
    Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author Watchman220
    Ellie. I sent you a Private Message.

    It's not about the latest thing...mostly. It's about your passion. Your message. Your attitude. I have been around enough to stop focusing on the latest greatest thing since sliced bread and learned to focus on the enduring skills of marketing...person to person.
    The question is really how to find the people...

    Left you contact info...
    Let's chat.
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  • Profile picture of the author marlon
    Ellie,

    1. Yes, they want to sell you. That's HOW you make money in this business.
    You sell stuff to people who want to buy it. If they aren't very effective at selling you something or tell you not to sell, then RUN. They don't know what they are doing. This business IS about selling things to people who want to buy.

    2. There are only 3 steps you need to learn.

    a. Find people who buy lots of stuff
    b. Get them on an email list, FB group, etc
    c. Send them emails to sell them stuff

    Which one of those 3 steps are you stuck on?

    The 50 videos are to help with details. But really, as a new person
    starting out, you only need to do those 3 steps I gave you.

    I've used those 3 steps to literally sell millions online and so have
    my friends.

    Best wishes,

    Marlon Sanders
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Internet marketing is actually REALLY simple.

    Find targeted prospects ==> send them to the best offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author adrian49
    I wouldn't buy any more WSOs . Use the ones you have or search for free information Internet Marketing Forums and Blogs etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author pharvie
    So I have been reading through this thread and there is definitely a lot of good advice in here. Ellie, I know where you are coming from, every so called "coach" and "guru" has such an amazing testimony as to how internet Marketing has changed their lives. I have also been around long enough to know that these scripts are reused by many many people, I have a virtual eidetic memory and remember almost everything I read(it was better when I was younger) and hear. I have heard almost word for word the same scripts spewed by several different actors for several different products, and it is really quite annoying to be honest.

    The coaching programs and guru seminars are mostly garbage, and people need to realize that. The information that these so called "guru's" spew is information they have gathered from FREE sources and then hyped up with a lot of false pictures and crap. They should be banned from selling their garbage products but as long as people fall for their sales hype they will survive out here.

    What is needed is as many of the others have said, you need to find a product that speaks to you, that you have used, that HELPS you and provides VALUE to it's customers. Now don't worry there is no sales pitch coming. The other thing that is vitally important is building relationships, no matter what you are doing. If you want to sell click bank products you need to build a list of email subscribers that TRUST you, You also need to offer value to them. Don't just hit them with an email every three days that tries to sell them something. There is a lot of valuable content out there that you can give away for free, let your subscribers have free stuff, ACTUALLY free stuff I mean, and then in and amongst the freebie you offer up a product that is really cool and has a good commission value for you. If your list trusts you, then they are MORE likely to purchase.

    I have rambled a lot here, so now I will stop, but Ellie, it's important, work on building a list, and finding a product that works for you, test it, buy it, use it, see how well it works, and then pass that knowledge on through free giveaways to your email subscribers.

    Need to build a list? Find a kick ass giveaway that draws people in, and makes them want to give you their information.

    Take care Ellie, and I understand your frustration, but don't give up, success is out there, just be patient.
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    • Profile picture of the author fallingdown101
      very informative thread !!! i think the whole life is about mindset !!! Change your mindset and your reality will Change.....
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  • Profile picture of the author tritrain
    On the plus side, if the culture within a group is not particularly good, it gives you great opportunity to shine or "stand above the rest".
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  • Profile picture of the author SwiftBlog
    Originally Posted by Ellie Days View Post

    If you could take a little bit closer look to all the sales pages out there, they're so pumped and passionate to say what they have done, and now it's the time to give back or will help you change your life.. really?

    Would they really want to spend the time and effort to try and help to change our lives? or they really just want us to buy something from them?

    I don't know why, but I'm starting to lose the trust in this IM industry..

    I'm not saying one must help someone (because that's just not compulsory), but is this a path (must work out things on themselves) that every IMer must go through?

    People say, "You need a mentor, or coach" Really? They're trying to help or they're trying to earn the last bit of money you've got?

    I've joined several coaching programs, and all there are just some 50 x 1 hour videos, that's impossible to finish learning (especially if you're frustrated about your financial status).

    Taking action is important. What if taking action in the wrong direction? That's only wasting more time, wasting my last bit of money and killing the faith...

    I know I'm frustrated (have already gone through, What to do if frustrated), but I don't expect any of you to help me, just want to share my opinions.....
    I know exactly what you are talking about and the best skill someone can learn is how to seperate the good ones from the junk. I'd say a lot of it can be junk, but it gets outed pretty quick. There are a LOT of great products out there also, but buying products can never compare with having a good work ethic and taking action on methods that are viable.

    The best advice I've ever gotten in my internet marketing career was from a buddy Larry about 5 years ago now.. (Wow, didn't think it's been that long). He told me just to make 5$, anyway I could online. Once I completed that, learn to scale that up and make more. Here we are 5 years later, I work from home, make a comfortable enough living to provide for my family and myself without dragging myself to a 9-5, and I feel pretty damn proud of myself. Thanks Larry!
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    so i.m to 99%+ of you is selling info to other i.m's? Sorry that's all I see. Selling shovels. and if you have to ask..how the hell you can "mentor" on it is beyond me.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    that's nice but if it grinds to halt one day...plan B?

    Don't be an i.mer...be a business builder.

    The best advice I've ever gotten in my internet marketing career was from a buddy Larry about 5 years ago now.. (Wow, didn't think it's been that long). He told me just to make 5$, anyway I could online. Once I completed that, learn to scale that up and make more. Here we are 5 years later, I work from home, make a comfortable enough living to provide for my family and myself without dragging myself to a 9-5, and I feel pretty damn proud of myself. Thanks Larry!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    Focus on social media marketing. Sales pages are losing their potency.
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    On the whole, you get what you pay for.

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  • Profile picture of the author Lokahi
    There's nothing wrong with trying out various methods for internet marketing. But once you find one that works for you, then just use that and don't hop around to others. Assuming you haven't already found your magic sales formula, look to the most successful internet marketers online. Not just the people who are selling the most ebooks to wanna be marketers, but people who are selling services or products and using internet marketing techniques to make money off their sites. There's a world of free information out there you can benefit from, without having to buy yet another book someone has rehashed. Make good use of it. Most importantly, stay true to your own values, without worrying what others are doing or getting away with.
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  • Profile picture of the author Make Money Ninja
    I think people are generally wising up to systems.

    Personally, the best system out there is the one you design. People have unique strengths and talents and a one size fits all "do this, then this, then this" system will not work for everybody. They are also bad for your long term development quite simply because they just make you follow a plan and don't allow you to think for yourself and understand the general principals involved.

    Over the last 5 years. I have made way over a $250k from content sites. (I know its not that much but i do okay). The system i use is very VERY simple. And to be honest, simple systems are the best.

    The great Steve Jobs said this:

    That's been one of my mantras - focus and simplicity. Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains.
    It couldn't be as simple as:

    1) Choosing a niche depending on your own knowledge and the proven demand for such products, services or knowledge.

    2) Spend time researching the competition. Make a huge list of keywords you want to rank for.

    3) Creating a beautiful site.

    4) Building out the site, focusing on creating value for your customers (Remember: People are rewarded for VALUE).

    5) Use marketing methods to get your content infront of as many people who are interested in it as possible.

    Sure, there are thousands of things you can get in to in terms of monetization, traffic generation, sales, retention etc. But the fundamentals of my business model is on CREATING VALUE for something there is a DEMAND for. Virtually all successful businesses are like this, whether they are online or offline.

    The only problem with this is that it takes a lot of work, work most people are unwilling to do unfortunately. But then again, that creates opportunity if you are willing to put the time and effort in to creating something other people are not prepared to do.

    There is a great myth that succesful people are lucky. "You just need to get your mindset right and then you will attract abundance"... or "I just need the perfect plan before i can get started"...

    Truth is, its all bullshit and excuses. We live in a world of cause and effect. The successful people have a clear plan, a clear goal, take focused action which in turn creates value that is rewarded by the marketplace. Its as simple as that.

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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

      Personally, the best system out there is the one you design. People have unique strengths and talents and a one size fits all "do this, then this, then this" system will not work for everybody. They are also bad for your long term development quite simply because they just make you follow a plan and don't allow you to think for yourself and understand the general principals involved.
      And if the plan proves to be a great seller, you end up with a lot of people doing exactly the same thing, using the same keywords, and nobody stands out. When that happens, most come here to whine about saturation or scams or something.

      Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

      Over the last 5 years. I have made way over a $250k from content sites. (I know its not that much but i do okay). The system i use is very VERY simple. And to be honest, simple systems are the best.
      One of my engineering profs always drummed into our heads that the design isn't done when you can no longer cram anything new into it. It's done when you can no longer take anything away and it still functions as intended. He called it "elegant design", and I've found over the years that elegantly designed systems tend to work the best in the business world as well.

      Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

      There is a great myth that successful people are lucky. "You just need to get your mindset right and then you will attract abundance"... or "I just need the perfect plan before i can get started"...
      Whenever a friend of mine would hear about this stuff (and he's a believer in the Law of Attraction), he'd remind people that while one might attract abundance, one still had to recognize it and reach out to receive it. He also invoked a Quaker proverb: When you pray, move your feet...
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      • Profile picture of the author Make Money Ninja
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        And if the plan proves to be a great seller, you end up with a lot of people doing exactly the same thing, using the same keywords, and nobody stands out. When that happens, most come here to whine about saturation or scams or something.



        One of my engineering profs always drummed into our heads that the design isn't done when you can no longer cram anything new into it. It's done when you can no longer take anything away and it still functions as intended. He called it "elegant design", and I've found over the years that elegantly designed systems tend to work the best in the business world as well.



        Whenever a friend of mine would hear about this stuff (and he's a believer in the Law of Attraction), he'd remind people that while one might attract abundance, one still had to recognize it and reach out to receive it. He also invoked a Quaker proverb: When you pray, move your feet...
        1) Create a plan other people can't copy. Offer unique value. Or increase barriars to entry by buying a senator.. just saying

        2) Yeah.

        3) Well yes thats obvious. Wonder how many people who buy in to this "law of attraction" stuff end up in the exact same position 5 years later. Pretty sure it's most of them. Then there are people out there creating unique plans, adding value and just generally getting shit done. Those are the ones that crush it in the end.

        Most millionaires tend to be the "collector" type. They figure out how to make money with simple systems. They compound and invest over and over by capitalizing on the system and using other peoples labour to get there. Business is simple when you think of it in terms of demand and providing value.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

          1) Create a plan other people can't copy. Offer unique value. Or increase barriers to entry by buying a senator.. just saying
          We're not disagreeing here. Maybe I should have been more clear. I was saying that people who buy into and mechanically follow a mass-marketed plan all tend to offer the same thing the same way using the same keywords.

          Finding your own unique position, plan, value proposition, whatever you choose to call it is a better way to go. Senators are too expensive, you can create almost the same chaos for less with a plain ol' Congressman...

          Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

          3) Well yes that's obvious. Wonder how many people who buy in to this "law of attraction" stuff end up in the exact same position 5 years later. Pretty sure it's most of them. Then there are people out there creating unique plans, adding value and just generally getting shit done. Those are the ones that crush it in the end.
          Pretty sure it's the ones who sit and wait for a miracle to rain down on them because they "wanted it enough." The ones that opened themselves up to what they wanted, recognized an opportunity when it presented itself, and took the steps to make the most of that opportunity do tend to crush it in the end.

          Those who pay lip service, spend their time navel gazing and "wanting it" end up with eyestrain and not much more.

          Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

          Most millionaires tend to be the "collector" type. They figure out how to make money with simple systems. They compound and invest over and over by capitalizing on the system and using other peoples labour to get there. Business is simple when you think of it in terms of demand and providing value.
          Hard to argue with this... the only thing I'd change is to add the term "self-made" to millionaires.
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  • I started IM working in a niche I felt was immoral. I was just out of college, rejected from grad school, couldn't find a job.

    I applied to what I thought was a scam on Craigslist, but turned out to be a legit internet marketing startup, offering copywriting, videos, and consultation.

    They started sending me freelance writing work, and I started my IM career.

    Problem was, they worked mostly in a niche that made me feel uneasy. I thought it was mostly BS.

    I decided to go after jobs in other niches - subjects I was more comfortable with.

    I tried to move toward markets I was passionate about.

    That way, whether I'm creating a product, writing copy, or producing a video, I always feel like I'm helping someone.

    There will always people more worried about money than hurting people. Just ignore them and do your thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    There is an entire group of "gurus" on this forum that would be living under a bridge if newbies ever brightened up. The problems with IM culture all go back to guru worship. Try asking these guys for their qualifications before you give them your cash. And don't settle for vague answers that are impossible to verify. There's a lot of "big names" here whose income would be cut off entirely and they would have to go on welfare because they can't do anything else.
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    • Profile picture of the author ronrule
      Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

      There is an entire group of "gurus" on this forum that would be living under a bridge if newbies ever brightened up. The problems with IM culture all go back to guru worship. Try asking these guys for their qualifications before you give them your cash. And don't settle for vague answers that are impossible to verify. There's a lot of "big names" here whose income would be cut off entirely and they would have to go on welfare because they can't do anything else.
      Haha, exactly!

      That's why I always encourage newbies not to jump right into finding a coach... if you don't even know what niche you want to be in, you can't possibly know how to spot a phony.

      A coach isn't a magic answer button ... the purpose is to be someone who's been there & done it, to help steer you in the right direction. You have to have some working knowledge of what you want to be doing, and know you have the skills required to DO IT first. It's the only way you'll be able to tell if the "coach" actually knows their stuff and is the right fit for you.
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    • Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

      There is an entire group of "gurus" on this forum that would be living under a bridge if newbies ever brightened up. The problems with IM culture all go back to guru worship. Try asking these guys for their qualifications before you give them your cash. And don't settle for vague answers that are impossible to verify. There's a lot of "big names" here whose income would be cut off entirely and they would have to go on welfare because they can't do anything else.
      You got it the other way around... Gurus are a consequence, not the cause.

      The cause is, in a nutshell, the hordes of desperate people who want to run an online "business" without having the will, motivation, skills and work-ethics necessary to run a business (online or offline, it doesn't matter). They search for "systems" to bypass the entrepreneurship bumpy road because, quite frankly, they just want to make a quick buck instead of building a sound business.

      Just look at how many "How can I make $XXX online by next Tuesday?" and "What easy technique to make $XXX per month?" threads started by posters with less than 10 posts in their account. There are plenty of those every day here at the forum.

      That's where Gurus come into the equation: they offer what those people seek out for: a guided tour, from rags to riches, on how to make money online. They simply fulfill an offer to an existing demand. Needless to say, some (many) of those gurus are nothing but opportunists fishing in a barrel.

      It's a similar phenomenon to shovel vendors during the Gold Rush. It was the endless amount of naive souls digging the river banks what fueled the business, not the shovel vendors - even if it was indeed the shovel vendors the ones making the real profit out of the Rush! Vendors simply fulfilled an offer to an existing demand, just like Gurus do in the IM sphere.

      Don't blame the Gurus... blame the hordes of (dumb?) people looking for unrealistic shortcuts and "systems" to what's, in fact, a proper business that requires a proper business attitude.
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  • Profile picture of the author alashim
    I know you're not looking for pity but I'm sorry you're frustrated right now.

    I was in a similar position until earlier this year, when I finally signed up with someone to be my mentor. Since then I've gone from nothing to having an optin page with several hundred subscribers and it only taken me 4 years to get here.

    So don't give up hope just yet, if it was easy everyone would be doing it.

    If money is tight then you need to be more cautious about what you spend it on and who you spend it with, just as you do in your normal life.

    The Internet isn't disappearing any time soon, so there'll always be opportunities to make money.

    Keep the faith.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lynn Terry
    I've been following this thread quietly, and find some of the comments "interesting". Such as comments like "I hate mentors" and general guru-bashing.

    The fact is, where there is a market, that market needs to be served. Another fact is, just because something didn't work for you doesn't make it a scam (and in most cases the REAL fact is that the person didn't invest & implement). And a third fact... we each have a personal responsibility for our decisions, our purchases, our choice to request refunds, and our own follow-through period.

    Consider the lottery and casinos. They serve a market of people who want a quick fix, who think that luck equals success. That same market is served by people who try to educate them on personal responsibility, the real keys to true life success, as well as treatment centers and services for "luck addictions". None of those merchants are bad people. There's a demand.

    That said, I agree there are scammers on the 'net, and there are things to beware of. But that's OUR responsibility. This is nothing new under the sun, just a new medium.

    Bashing them, hating them, ranting even - doesn't serve you and your goals, or your path for your own life. Figure out what you want to do, how you want to do it, and get it done. Period. Don't waste time and energy pointing out faults and negatives in the world when you can spend that same time and energy putting something positive and awesome back into the world! *cheers*
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Sousa
    Ellie, I share your frustration in many ways. There IS money to be made over the internet, so don't give up on it. Most of the Gurus though teach the same thing. My advice is to pick ONE and then focus on that until you're in profit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lynn Terry
      Originally Posted by Frank Sousa View Post

      Ellie, I share your frustration in many ways. There IS money to be made over the internet, so don't give up on it. Most of the Gurus though teach the same thing. My advice is to pick ONE and then focus on that until you're in profit.
      I agree.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Franklin
    Ellie...

    I haven't seen you in the thread in a while but I would suggest that you start with the generous advice offered by the Warriors on here. Yes, study from them but you don't have to reinvent the wheel....You don't even have to join the War Room.

    Go through the 5 star threads on here. All you have to do is click the ratings link on the main page and then you will have pages of great blueprints that you can follow. Pick out one or two that resonates well with you and you can be off and running.

    Some of the top rated posts are just as good as the "guru" advice on here and best of all it won't cost you one penny!
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    • Profile picture of the author Ellie Days
      Originally Posted by Michael Franklin View Post

      Ellie...

      I haven't seen you in the thread in a while but I would suggest that you start with the generous advice offered by the Warriors on here. Yes, study from them but you don't have to reinvent the wheel....You don't even have to join the War Room.

      Go through the 5 star threads on here. All you have to do is click the ratings link on the main page and then you will have pages of great blueprints that you can follow. Pick out one or two that resonates well with you and you can be off and running.

      Some of the top rated posts are just as good as the "guru" advice on here and best of all it won't cost you one penny!
      Yes, I've been quietly reading all you guys' comments and suggestions.
      They meant alot to me! and I'm currently taking actions do some projects instead of reading (looking) for the next solutions.

      I want to make this work already!

      Thank you guys for all the loves, appreciate it <3
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