The MMO Niche....and the BS! And my advice (for what it's worth)

19 replies
I'd like your opinions please.....

I've been interested in Internet Marketing for around 4 years, I've purchased many products, have had mentoring, read many articles etc, etc, etc

And you know what, over the last year or so I have come to the conclusion that the MMO (make money online) niche is full of so called professional and full time marketers (and some who like to call themselves "Gurus"), who have now left the MMO niche as they are not making money online!

They preach and market themselves online saying that by "buying this product, what I have developed and have used to make £££££'s, you to can make a full time living and be like me"...

Now I'm not saying that ALL Internet Marketers are the same, as there are many marketers online who I have the up most respect for and many do sell products that they have developed which help the average person make money online.

I met a UK based IMer 2 years ago at a training day, he was sitting in the crowd, near to me

I approached him as I recognised him from the e mails I had received re his launch and the videos I watched of him promoting his product, a product and system that "would make you ££££s". I lead the conversation with how I had received details about his product and asked how it was going?

"Have you purchased it" he asked, "No" I replied......Instantly the guy, was, how can I put it, well I suppose as not very talkative!

He had the personality of a wet fish, and whilst I was standing there thinking to myself "would I ever buy anything from this man and I'm wasting my time" I thought of all the people who had purchased the product from a guy who tried to present himself on video as someone who was there to help the viewers make money! These people are so full of self importance!

Fast forward to yesterday, this same guy is on a traffic training day, sitting behind me.....Was he there looking to push traffic to this wonderful product he had launched a couple of years ago? Why was he there? If his product was that good at creating a passive income, why wasn't he sitting on a beach checking his bank account online?

I had to ask!

"Hello" I said, "You are Tim? (Not his real name, but don't want to cause the guy embarrassment) "yes", he replied.

"so how is your product doing?"

"Err don't sell it no more, erm sold the business, fed up with people not taking action, and asking for refunds, I sold the business" He replied (Instantly thought of a wet fish again!)

"I'm now doing bla bla bla" he said. By this time had switched off due to his monotone voice

Who knows if this guy is telling the truth, he maybe, but this is my perception of the MMO BS...IMO there are so many so called gurus selling how to make money products to the how to make money online crowd that are not making money themselves. I too got caught up in the web of BS a few years ago

I know I have gone on a bit with this thread, I would like to see others opinions from the WF

My advice, for what it is worth is:

1. Don't believe every sales pitch or person that contacts you, SOME people are not who you think they are!
2. Research people/products before buying (Use the Warrior Forum)
3. There is no "magic software" that will make you money over night (unless it is software that will make part of your IM business easier, you still need to learn the fundamentals)
4. There are so many ways to make money online. choose one and stick with it
5. Most importantly TAKE ACTION, and don't listen to BS!

I have learnt a lot about the IM world over the last few years.

Have I made money? Yes a little....

Why am I not making money full time online? Well we all have our excuses, mine is that I have an offline business and family that takes my time and is my main scource of income, however, I still have a passion about marketing online, and with what I have learnt I plan to stick with CPA marketing

Enough of my rant,

I wish you all the success you deserve

Paul
#advice #mmo #nicheand #worth
  • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
    Yet another. How boring.
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    All The Real Marketers Are Gone. There's Nothing Left But Weak, Sniveling Wanna-Bees!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paulwilson123
      [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Paulwilson123
      A very thought provoking reply Rogue, must have taken you a long time to think of that, thanks
      Originally Posted by RogueOne View Post

      Yet another. How boring.
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  • Profile picture of the author chris3397
    Originally Posted by Paulwilson123 View Post

    3. There is no "magic software" that will make you money over night (unless it is software that will make part of your IM business easier, you still need to learn the fundamentals)
    Very well said... this is still a real business and how much you put into it will be how much you get out of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Rosmer
    The industry creates and perpetuates this sort of thing. Take a look at comments on Warrior Forum, you've got a ton of people asking who to make money online and generally they are wanting to do so promoting a product (or creating one) in the "make money online" segment (I wouldn't call it a niche). The people selling such products encourage others to promote their products via affiliate offers, etc. The same is true in the speaking industry, you've got a whole industry of so called personal development gurus who attended a seminar and decide they were so impacted by it that they want to teach it to everyone else without ever becoming a real expert in the field (think 10 000 hours of deliberate practice).

    The problem is most of these people don't understand the fundamentals of business, they focus on tools and strategies rather than the fundamentals behind those strategies "Youtube", "Facebook", "Clickbank", "Solo ads", etc.

    The simple fact is none of those things make you money. Buying something for less than you can sell it for and then selling it for that is what makes you money. Understanding how to control your costs, find inefficiencies in the market, and maximize your sales, then scale that up, convert it to assets, etc.

    This is where people focusing on making money is the problem, rather than delving deep into something they love and then sharing that with others. If you're a genuine expert in a field and it's something you love there are probably people who will pay you for your expertise, then it's just a matter of learning how to share it profitably. Unfortunately, most people don't know when they are experts, they think reading a book that anyone can read but few have read makes them an expert when it doesn't. Delving into actually applying what's in that book, going through the struggles and learning to overcome them makes them an expert. Think about it, how many people read some source, take a course, watch a video, listen to a seminar but then go to implement it and run into problems? TONS! The person who is the expert is the person who can anticipate those problems because they've been through them.

    Here are some interesting questions I've personally addressed in the last little while:

    1. How do you know what advertising to invest in? I have advertising sales people pitching my businesses all the time on advertising with them, of course they all communicate how great those opportunities are and their words can't be trusted, so how do you know which ones to invest in and which ones not to? This is a very real question faced by all serious entrepreneurs, but whose talking about it and providing a functional answer? (The answer by the way lies in knowing your numbers, knowing your market, having a compelling offer, having a margin of safety, and testing on a small scale, all of which is easier said than done, margin of safety for example is a hugely effective concept but how do you create a margin of safety in your advertising to ensure you don't lose money?)

    2. How do you know who to hire? If you're hiring in person you can sit across from a dozen people half of whom seem good, online all the contractors will tell you how great they are so how do you really know who you should hire and who you shouldn't? Again, this is an incredibly challenging question facing all serious entrepreneurs, but who has answers?

    3. How do you know when to fire someone vs. when to train them or manage them better? I had to fire someone yesterday, in reality I probably should have fired them months ago, they were a drain on my business but I hate firing people, I like to believe in people and I tend to believe that better management can make the difference, but how do you really know? I know lots of people who try to replace someone they know and end up with someone new who they don't know and have to go through a tough learning curve with that new person, it isn't a magic bullet solution so how do you make decisions like that?

    Those are real issues that entrepreneurs face and knowing them will come up and understanding based on lots of very honest testing how to handle them is hugely valuable...that's not what most of the self proclaimed gurus offer though. It's easy to learn that the basics of internet marketing are: create a landing page, get people to opt-in to your list based on some kind of a lead magnet, redirect them to a sales page, market to them via email, make all that money. It's even easy to answer the question of "how do you drive traffic?" with: seo, ppc, Facebook, solo ads, Youtube videos, etc. The problem is those things tell you nothing about actually making money. The reality of making money in that lie in the nuances of HOW you do those things. How do you build the website cheap? What should be on it? What should the lead magnet be? What should you use for your auto-responder? Going a level deeper What should you say in your emails? How frequent should they be? How should they be formatted? What price should the offer be? What payment processor should be used? Where do you hire someone to do all this stuff for you? How much is a reasonable amount to pay them? How do you manage them in order to get the results effectively? How do you select which of them to hire at all? The list goes on.

    The secret is this develop focused skills. People talk a lot about action, but action is useless if you don't know how to act. What you need to do instead is commit yourself to develop a very focused set of skills and recognize that this will take time and money. You are effectively going to school when you start and University would cost you what $10 000/yr? Same is mostly going to be true here, you can minimize those costs to some extent but you can't escape the fact that the learning curve has a cost.

    I've done really well in investing over the last two years and was quite proud of myself for that but yesterday while chatting with a friend who I was first involved in investing with on the real estate side I calculated my learning has come as a result of about a $1 million in investment losses (not all mine, some from people I knew who I make recommendations to a number of years back when I didn't know what I didn't know) and that doesn't count the opportunity costs. That's an expensive education by virtually any standards. If you'd asked me when I started out whether I was willing to pay that price I probably would have told you no. I didn't realize that price would be necessary and frankly it could have been a lot worse, I dodged some bullets on a few deals I almost got involved in back around 2009 and 2010 that might have added hundreds of thousands more to the pile. Most people don't enter the game thinking they are willing to go through that journey, they don't think of being willing to get into a position and go through a time where all of their credit cards but one is frozen from being overlimit and standing in line for groceries they aren't sure whether their last card will have enough to process a $20 transaction on it. They hear stories of quick, easy money, the bottom line is if it was quick and easy everyone would be doing it and it would quickly not longer become quick and easy. You have to commit for the long term and commit to paying the price and you should look for people who have paid that price as they are generally the ones you can learn the most from.
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    • Profile picture of the author Darrin Bentley
      Originally Posted by Michael Rosmer View Post

      The industry creates and perpetuates this sort of thing. Take a look at comments on Warrior Forum, you've got a ton of people asking who to make money online and generally they are wanting to do so promoting a product (or creating one) in the "make money online" segment (I wouldn't call it a niche). The people selling such products encourage others to promote their products via affiliate offers, etc. The same is true in the speaking industry, you've got a whole industry of so called personal development gurus who attended a seminar and decide they were so impacted by it that they want to teach it to everyone else without ever becoming a real expert in the field (think 10 000 hours of deliberate practice).

      The problem is most of these people don't understand the fundamentals of business, they focus on tools and strategies rather than the fundamentals behind those strategies "Youtube", "Facebook", "Clickbank", "Solo ads", etc.

      The simple fact is none of those things make you money. Buying something for less than you can sell it for and then selling it for that is what makes you money. Understanding how to control your costs, find inefficiencies in the market, and maximize your sales, then scale that up, convert it to assets, etc.

      This is where people focusing on making money is the problem, rather than delving deep into something they love and then sharing that with others. If you're a genuine expert in a field and it's something you love there are probably people who will pay you for your expertise, then it's just a matter of learning how to share it profitably. Unfortunately, most people don't know when they are experts, they think reading a book that anyone can read but few have read makes them an expert when it doesn't. Delving into actually applying what's in that book, going through the struggles and learning to overcome them makes them an expert. Think about it, how many people read some source, take a course, watch a video, listen to a seminar but then go to implement it and run into problems? TONS! The person who is the expert is the person who can anticipate those problems because they've been through them.

      Here are some interesting questions I've personally addressed in the last little while:

      1. How do you know what advertising to invest in? I have advertising sales people pitching my businesses all the time on advertising with them, of course they all communicate how great those opportunities are and their words can't be trusted, so how do you know which ones to invest in and which ones not to? This is a very real question faced by all serious entrepreneurs, but whose talking about it and providing a functional answer? (The answer by the way lies in knowing your numbers, knowing your market, having a compelling offer, having a margin of safety, and testing on a small scale, all of which is easier said than done, margin of safety for example is a hugely effective concept but how do you create a margin of safety in your advertising to ensure you don't lose money?)

      2. How do you know who to hire? If you're hiring in person you can sit across from a dozen people half of whom seem good, online all the contractors will tell you how great they are so how do you really know who you should hire and who you shouldn't? Again, this is an incredibly challenging question facing all serious entrepreneurs, but who has answers?

      3. How do you know when to fire someone vs. when to train them or manage them better? I had to fire someone yesterday, in reality I probably should have fired them months ago, they were a drain on my business but I hate firing people, I like to believe in people and I tend to believe that better management can make the difference, but how do you really know? I know lots of people who try to replace someone they know and end up with someone new who they don't know and have to go through a tough learning curve with that new person, it isn't a magic bullet solution so how do you make decisions like that?

      Those are real issues that entrepreneurs face and knowing them will come up and understanding based on lots of very honest testing how to handle them is hugely valuable...that's not what most of the self proclaimed gurus offer though. It's easy to learn that the basics of internet marketing are: create a landing page, get people to opt-in to your list based on some kind of a lead magnet, redirect them to a sales page, market to them via email, make all that money. It's even easy to answer the question of "how do you drive traffic?" with: seo, ppc, Facebook, solo ads, Youtube videos, etc. The problem is those things tell you nothing about actually making money. The reality of making money in that lie in the nuances of HOW you do those things. How do you build the website cheap? What should be on it? What should the lead magnet be? What should you use for your auto-responder? Going a level deeper What should you say in your emails? How frequent should they be? How should they be formatted? What price should the offer be? What payment processor should be used? Where do you hire someone to do all this stuff for you? How much is a reasonable amount to pay them? How do you manage them in order to get the results effectively? How do you select which of them to hire at all? The list goes on.

      The secret is this develop focused skills. People talk a lot about action, but action is useless if you don't know how to act. What you need to do instead is commit yourself to develop a very focused set of skills and recognize that this will take time and money. You are effectively going to school when you start and University would cost you what $10 000/yr? Same is mostly going to be true here, you can minimize those costs to some extent but you can't escape the fact that the learning curve has a cost.

      I've done really well in investing over the last two years and was quite proud of myself for that but yesterday while chatting with a friend who I was first involved in investing with on the real estate side I calculated my learning has come as a result of about a $1 million in investment losses (not all mine, some from people I knew who I make recommendations to a number of years back when I didn't know what I didn't know) and that doesn't count the opportunity costs. That's an expensive education by virtually any standards. If you'd asked me when I started out whether I was willing to pay that price I probably would have told you no. I didn't realize that price would be necessary and frankly it could have been a lot worse, I dodged some bullets on a few deals I almost got involved in back around 2009 and 2010 that might have added hundreds of thousands more to the pile. Most people don't enter the game thinking they are willing to go through that journey, they don't think of being willing to get into a position and go through a time where all of their credit cards but one is frozen from being overlimit and standing in line for groceries they aren't sure whether their last card will have enough to process a $20 transaction on it. They hear stories of quick, easy money, the bottom line is if it was quick and easy everyone would be doing it and it would quickly not longer become quick and easy. You have to commit for the long term and commit to paying the price and you should look for people who have paid that price as they are generally the ones you can learn the most from.
      GREAT POST!! Thank you for that!
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      A sucker MAY be born every minute, but that don't mean you have to take advantage of them.

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    • Profile picture of the author koreancowboy
      Originally Posted by Michael Rosmer View Post

      The industry creates and perpetuates this sort of thing. Take a look at comments on Warrior Forum, you've got a ton of people asking who to make money online and generally they are wanting to do so promoting a product (or creating one) in the "make money online" segment (I wouldn't call it a niche). The people selling such products encourage others to promote their products via affiliate offers, etc. The same is true in the speaking industry, you've got a whole industry of so called personal development gurus who attended a seminar and decide they were so impacted by it that they want to teach it to everyone else without ever becoming a real expert in the field (think 10 000 hours of deliberate practice).

      The problem is most of these people don't understand the fundamentals of business, they focus on tools and strategies rather than the fundamentals behind those strategies "Youtube", "Facebook", "Clickbank", "Solo ads", etc.

      The simple fact is none of those things make you money. Buying something for less than you can sell it for and then selling it for that is what makes you money. Understanding how to control your costs, find inefficiencies in the market, and maximize your sales, then scale that up, convert it to assets, etc.

      This is where people focusing on making money is the problem, rather than delving deep into something they love and then sharing that with others. If you're a genuine expert in a field and it's something you love there are probably people who will pay you for your expertise, then it's just a matter of learning how to share it profitably. Unfortunately, most people don't know when they are experts, they think reading a book that anyone can read but few have read makes them an expert when it doesn't. Delving into actually applying what's in that book, going through the struggles and learning to overcome them makes them an expert. Think about it, how many people read some source, take a course, watch a video, listen to a seminar but then go to implement it and run into problems? TONS! The person who is the expert is the person who can anticipate those problems because they've been through them.

      Here are some interesting questions I've personally addressed in the last little while:

      1. How do you know what advertising to invest in? I have advertising sales people pitching my businesses all the time on advertising with them, of course they all communicate how great those opportunities are and their words can't be trusted, so how do you know which ones to invest in and which ones not to? This is a very real question faced by all serious entrepreneurs, but whose talking about it and providing a functional answer? (The answer by the way lies in knowing your numbers, knowing your market, having a compelling offer, having a margin of safety, and testing on a small scale, all of which is easier said than done, margin of safety for example is a hugely effective concept but how do you create a margin of safety in your advertising to ensure you don't lose money?)

      2. How do you know who to hire? If you're hiring in person you can sit across from a dozen people half of whom seem good, online all the contractors will tell you how great they are so how do you really know who you should hire and who you shouldn't? Again, this is an incredibly challenging question facing all serious entrepreneurs, but who has answers?

      3. How do you know when to fire someone vs. when to train them or manage them better? I had to fire someone yesterday, in reality I probably should have fired them months ago, they were a drain on my business but I hate firing people, I like to believe in people and I tend to believe that better management can make the difference, but how do you really know? I know lots of people who try to replace someone they know and end up with someone new who they don't know and have to go through a tough learning curve with that new person, it isn't a magic bullet solution so how do you make decisions like that?

      Those are real issues that entrepreneurs face and knowing them will come up and understanding based on lots of very honest testing how to handle them is hugely valuable...that's not what most of the self proclaimed gurus offer though. It's easy to learn that the basics of internet marketing are: create a landing page, get people to opt-in to your list based on some kind of a lead magnet, redirect them to a sales page, market to them via email, make all that money. It's even easy to answer the question of "how do you drive traffic?" with: seo, ppc, Facebook, solo ads, Youtube videos, etc. The problem is those things tell you nothing about actually making money. The reality of making money in that lie in the nuances of HOW you do those things. How do you build the website cheap? What should be on it? What should the lead magnet be? What should you use for your auto-responder? Going a level deeper What should you say in your emails? How frequent should they be? How should they be formatted? What price should the offer be? What payment processor should be used? Where do you hire someone to do all this stuff for you? How much is a reasonable amount to pay them? How do you manage them in order to get the results effectively? How do you select which of them to hire at all? The list goes on.

      The secret is this develop focused skills. People talk a lot about action, but action is useless if you don't know how to act. What you need to do instead is commit yourself to develop a very focused set of skills and recognize that this will take time and money. You are effectively going to school when you start and University would cost you what $10 000/yr? Same is mostly going to be true here, you can minimize those costs to some extent but you can't escape the fact that the learning curve has a cost.

      I've done really well in investing over the last two years and was quite proud of myself for that but yesterday while chatting with a friend who I was first involved in investing with on the real estate side I calculated my learning has come as a result of about a $1 million in investment losses (not all mine, some from people I knew who I make recommendations to a number of years back when I didn't know what I didn't know) and that doesn't count the opportunity costs. That's an expensive education by virtually any standards. If you'd asked me when I started out whether I was willing to pay that price I probably would have told you no. I didn't realize that price would be necessary and frankly it could have been a lot worse, I dodged some bullets on a few deals I almost got involved in back around 2009 and 2010 that might have added hundreds of thousands more to the pile. Most people don't enter the game thinking they are willing to go through that journey, they don't think of being willing to get into a position and go through a time where all of their credit cards but one is frozen from being overlimit and standing in line for groceries they aren't sure whether their last card will have enough to process a $20 transaction on it. They hear stories of quick, easy money, the bottom line is if it was quick and easy everyone would be doing it and it would quickly not longer become quick and easy. You have to commit for the long term and commit to paying the price and you should look for people who have paid that price as they are generally the ones you can learn the most from.


      The greatest post that I have ever read on WF. Bravo good sir,bravo.
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      I provide consulting for companies that use Adobe AEM...you can check out what I've done so far.

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  • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
    must have taken you a long time to think of that
    Since I've seen this (nearly) identical whine...I mean post so many times before, it really was very easy.
    Signature
    Get Off The Warrior Forum Now & Don't Come Back If You Want To Succeed!
    All The Real Marketers Are Gone. There's Nothing Left But Weak, Sniveling Wanna-Bees!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paulwilson123
      Quite clearly touched a nerve with my thread

      Originally Posted by RogueOne View Post

      Since I've seen this (nearly) identical whine...I mean post so many times before, it really was very easy.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    op -100% agree

    but ...imagine run into a bar and trying to teach sensible drinking.

    Most on here..are the people you talk about!!!!

    unemployed..broke..and selling B*S*
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
    Banned
    Superb post Michael.

    2 thanks...LOL..more "hates"

    The industry creates and perpetuates this sort of thing. Take a look at comments on Warrior Forum, you've got a ton of people asking who to make money online and generally they are wanting to do so promoting a product (or creating one) in the "make money online" segment (I wouldn't call it a niche). The people selling such products encourage others to promote their products via affiliate offers, etc. The same is true in the speaking industry, you've got a whole industry of so called personal development gurus who attended a seminar and decide they were so impacted by it that they want to teach it to everyone else without ever becoming a real expert in the field (think 10 000 hours of deliberate practice).

    The problem is most of these people don't understand the fundamentals of business, they focus on tools and strategies rather than the fundamentals behind those strategies "Youtube", "Facebook", "Clickbank", "Solo ads", etc.

    The simple fact is none of those things make you money. Buying something for less than you can sell it for and then selling it for that is what makes you money. Understanding how to control your costs, find inefficiencies in the market, and maximize your sales, then scale that up, convert it to assets, etc.

    This is where people focusing on making money is the problem, rather than delving deep into something they love and then sharing that with others. If you're a genuine expert in a field and it's something you love there are probably people who will pay you for your expertise, then it's just a matter of learning how to share it profitably. Unfortunately, most people don't know when they are experts, they think reading a book that anyone can read but few have read makes them an expert when it doesn't. Delving into actually applying what's in that book, going through the struggles and learning to overcome them makes them an expert. Think about it, how many people read some source, take a course, watch a video, listen to a seminar but then go to implement it and run into problems? TONS! The person who is the expert is the person who can anticipate those problems because they've been through them.

    Here are some interesting questions I've personally addressed in the last little while:

    1. How do you know what advertising to invest in? I have advertising sales people pitching my businesses all the time on advertising with them, of course they all communicate how great those opportunities are and their words can't be trusted, so how do you know which ones to invest in and which ones not to? This is a very real question faced by all serious entrepreneurs, but whose talking about it and providing a functional answer? (The answer by the way lies in knowing your numbers, knowing your market, having a compelling offer, having a margin of safety, and testing on a small scale, all of which is easier said than done, margin of safety for example is a hugely effective concept but how do you create a margin of safety in your advertising to ensure you don't lose money?)

    2. How do you know who to hire? If you're hiring in person you can sit across from a dozen people half of whom seem good, online all the contractors will tell you how great they are so how do you really know who you should hire and who you shouldn't? Again, this is an incredibly challenging question facing all serious entrepreneurs, but who has answers?

    3. How do you know when to fire someone vs. when to train them or manage them better? I had to fire someone yesterday, in reality I probably should have fired them months ago, they were a drain on my business but I hate firing people, I like to believe in people and I tend to believe that better management can make the difference, but how do you really know? I know lots of people who try to replace someone they know and end up with someone new who they don't know and have to go through a tough learning curve with that new person, it isn't a magic bullet solution so how do you make decisions like that?

    Those are real issues that entrepreneurs face and knowing them will come up and understanding based on lots of very honest testing how to handle them is hugely valuable...that's not what most of the self proclaimed gurus offer though. It's easy to learn that the basics of internet marketing are: create a landing page, get people to opt-in to your list based on some kind of a lead magnet, redirect them to a sales page, market to them via email, make all that money. It's even easy to answer the question of "how do you drive traffic?" with: seo, ppc, Facebook, solo ads, Youtube videos, etc. The problem is those things tell you nothing about actually making money. The reality of making money in that lie in the nuances of HOW you do those things. How do you build the website cheap? What should be on it? What should the lead magnet be? What should you use for your auto-responder? Going a level deeper What should you say in your emails? How frequent should they be? How should they be formatted? What price should the offer be? What payment processor should be used? Where do you hire someone to do all this stuff for you? How much is a reasonable amount to pay them? How do you manage them in order to get the results effectively? How do you select which of them to hire at all? The list goes on.

    The secret is this develop focused skills. People talk a lot about action, but action is useless if you don't know how to act. What you need to do instead is commit yourself to develop a very focused set of skills and recognize that this will take time and money. You are effectively going to school when you start and University would cost you what $10 000/yr? Same is mostly going to be true here, you can minimize those costs to some extent but you can't escape the fact that the learning curve has a cost.

    I've done really well in investing over the last two years and was quite proud of myself for that but yesterday while chatting with a friend who I was first involved in investing with on the real estate side I calculated my learning has come as a result of about a $1 million in investment losses (not all mine, some from people I knew who I make recommendations to a number of years back when I didn't know what I didn't know) and that doesn't count the opportunity costs. That's an expensive education by virtually any standards. If you'd asked me when I started out whether I was willing to pay that price I probably would have told you no. I didn't realize that price would be necessary and frankly it could have been a lot worse, I dodged some bullets on a few deals I almost got involved in back around 2009 and 2010 that might have added hundreds of thousands more to the pile. Most people don't enter the game thinking they are willing to go through that journey, they don't think of being willing to get into a position and go through a time where all of their credit cards but one is frozen from being overlimit and standing in line for groceries they aren't sure whether their last card will have enough to process a $20 transaction on it. They hear stories of quick, easy money, the bottom line is if it was quick and easy everyone would be doing it and it would quickly not longer become quick and easy. You have to commit for the long term and commit to paying the price and you should look for people who have paid that price as they are generally the ones you can learn the most from.
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
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    course not...quick buck,sell the dream move on!

    that's not what most of the self proclaimed gurus offer though
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    IM is actually real simple.

    Get targeted traffic - sent to sales funnel.

    The details vary case by case but - in the end - the rest is just a matter of 'taking action.'
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Dinero
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      IM is actually real simple.

      Get targeted traffic - sent to sales funnel.

      The details vary case by case but - in the end - the rest is just a matter of 'taking action.'
      This. No need to overcomplicate things
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  • Profile picture of the author trader909
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    ok goobye...
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  • Profile picture of the author iLinkedin
    It's take time to fet success in every niches, MMO niche is not easy as they say. It's now saturated. You should build your own reputation. I personally considered MMO niche is not where to put my energy to.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    MMO = 'Maginary Moneymaking Online for most people...

    It's the 'niche' where people brag about how much money they hope to make to rope in the few people who are worse off than them economically
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  • Profile picture of the author desley
    Great question.

    Great in the main responses and some very well considered.

    Yes, it can be wearying and draining to buy into every man and his dog promises and supposed rags to riches stories - which is all they are stories, even if very occasionally some are very interesting stories.

    Best advice given so far: focus on what you know and what you aim to do; ignore the sales pitches and simply go back to square 1 (which you'll be all the more wiser second time around) and work out what steps and strategies you feel comfortable with; and then implement them.

    Research, research, research - the MMO niche is as others have stated over saturated. Maybe it's time to find another niche which is more in keeping with your style and skills set. Just a thought.

    I've been through the same dilemma and quite frankly - believe it's better to leave the sharks in the MMO niche and more to a far more interesting niche which I have the skills set for and the interest/passion.

    Yes, it is hard to fire people, even outsourcers - as a manager and hirer of outsourcers - it can be incredibly challenging because they are people first and foremost. However, if one has reasonable expectations and people don't deliver move on - because in the end they'll cost you time, money and emotional upheaval. Easier said than done, but does in the end have to be done. With outsourcers I use a particular check list in my head - are they professional at what they do; are they timely in their output; exactly what results am I receiving, if any; is it still worth the fee; and would I be prepared to have them over to dinner if they lived in my neighbourhood. (The last seems a strange question to ask - however, informs me whether the outsourcer has developed and is delivering great customer experience.)

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author troy23
    I agree with what you are saying.
    Most of these people standing on stage are making money by standing on stage.
    What worked at one time is probably not working now.
    It's unlikely any of them could coach you to what they claim to have made.
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