Why do they try to HIDE the price in those long sales letters?

15 years ago

yeah it annoys the hell out of me as well, I hate having to search for the price of something,

Kim

Originally Posted by MikeGriffith

It's interesting. Everytime I read one of those hyped-up sales letters I instinctively scroll to the bottom to find out how much the item costs. But it seems they do their best to "hide" the price of their product somewhere in the script.

Why is this? Is it that they are ashamed of the high price...or that they don't think price is important...or what?? It seems the price would really stand out.

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BlueStar

Banned 15 years ago

Because they are Smart marketers. They know people go to the bottom and make a first impression based upon price. By placing the price in the article or making you go to another page it increases conversions.

Conversions is all that counts.

Test, Test, and more Test.

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MikeGriffith

15 years ago

I agree, in a way, BlueStar, but...let me be a bit silly here...
If the grocery stores started hiding the price of their products in the ingredient label instead of in bold price tags on the shelf, would that increase their sales? After all, they're making you see the value of what you're buying --before you pull out your wallet.

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeGriffith

I agree, in a way, BlueStar, but...let me be a bit silly here...
If the grocery stores started hiding the price of their products in the ingredient label instead of in bold price tags on the shelf, would that increase their sales? After all, they're making you see the value of what you're buying --before you pull out your wallet.

Mike, I'll see your silly and raise you one...

Here in the USA, Memorial Day is coming - one of the major holidays for outdoor grilling. Let's say I want to serve my guests a nice grilled filet.

I can get them from the local Wal-Mart, where the prices are prominently displayed in the case, for around $12 a pound.

I can order them from Omaha Steaks for around $22 a pound.

Or I can get Dean & DeLuca "Private Reserve Center Cut Filets" for around $60 a pound.

All cuts come from the same part of a cow, yet DeanDeLuca.com gets five times the price for steak that Wal-Mart gets.

If hiding the price in the copy (or deep in the site) got you five times the return on each sale because you got a chance to tell your story and build value, would you do it?

Would you at least test it to see if your overall returns were better?

Looking at the back end, I'd rather have a smaller list of buyers who have proven to have lower price resistance to what I offer, all else being equal.

It may be annoying, but there's likely money in the madness...

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JasonC.biz

15 years ago

This bugs me too. The thing is though, that I don't read more of the sales letter, so they don't have more of a chance to sell me. I spend a minute looking for a dollar amount. If I can't find one I click the order button to see what the price is.

If I don't like it, I back out. If the price sounds reasonable, then I'll go read more of the sales letter to decide if I want to buy or not.

Personally, hiding the price just makes me frustrated and does nothing to bring me closer to buying.

Jason

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billspaced

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JasonC.biz

This bugs me too. The thing is though, that I don't read more of the sales letter, so they don't have more of a chance to sell me. I spend a minute looking for a dollar amount. If I can't find one I click the order button to see what the price is.

If I don't like it, I back out. If the price sounds reasonable, then I'll go read more of the sales letter to decide if I want to buy or not.

Personally, hiding the price just makes me frustrated and does nothing to bring me closer to buying.

Jason

That's smart!

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Some of you guys are really close...
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  I was just watching an old episode of "The West Wing".
  
  The opposition candidate leaked a smear video against the president asking
  
  "What is Jed Bartlett hiding now?"
  
  Translation:
  You can't trust Jed Bartlett because he's hiding something.
  
  Who can you trust?
  
  Me! Because I exposed him. I am the white knight unmasking evil where'er it might be.
  
  Undermine the existing authority and replace them.
  
  "try" also helps the idea because it suggests they were unsuccessful because my eagle eye spotted their nefarious deeds and foiled their dastardly plot.
  
  This is Watergate all over again!
  
  Where's my Pulitzer prize, Mr Myers?
  
  (and this is definitely my last try)
  
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Intrepreneur 15 years ago

I don't know much about the tactic but now it has been discussed I'm glad to see some of the ideas surrounding it.

It has actually made me think back to the last few times I've been on such a salespage, which shocked me on first thought.

It works..

Because I've just realised that it actually forces me to go back and read the copy to see what I'm getting for my money.

Maybe it has that affect on many people and that is why it is used.
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MaxReferrals

15 years ago

To get you into the buy-flow.

Yes, it's shady.

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Mike, one reason some copywriters do this is to give themselves a chance to build value for their product.

If I tell you I have a small picture of an old-time baseball player, and I want you to give me $100,00 for it, do you whip out your checkbook?

Doubtful.

If I tell you I have a Honus Wagner baseball card, does that motivate you?

If you collect baseball cards, it would get your attention.

If I told you it was a mint condition, authenticated card that once sold at auction for over $1 million dollars, but was now being offered at the bargain price of $100K to settle an estate, would you be interested?

Probably.

If you had the means, and it was the last one you needed to complete a collection, you'd knock people over to be the first one in line with your checkbook.

Well, the copywriters who hide prices in the copy are doing what they can to start a race to the front of the room, rather than lose possible buyers by hitting them with a price before they have a chance to tell their story.

Now the folks who won't tell me the price without clicking the order button do bug me. But that's simply my personal reaction. It might test out as an effective tactic, even if it annoys me.

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Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeGriffith

It's interesting. Everytime I read one of those hyped-up sales letters I instinctively scroll to the bottom to find out how much the item costs. But it seems they do their best to "hide" the price of their product somewhere in the script.

Why is this? Is it that they are ashamed of the high price...or that they don't think price is important...or what?? It seems the price would really stand out.

To get back at the 'cheaters' who want to read the end of the book,
know how the movie will end and pick the blossoms instead of waiting
for the fruit.

As stated before, there is an ORDER of persuasion and giving the price
upfront (EXCEPT when the price is the selling point as in a sale) is
cutting down the sales tree even before it is planted.

What may annoy some makes the marketer more sales.

Truth be told, you can't sell to many without annoying a few anyway.

-Ray Edwards

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Amy Bass

15 years ago

I ALWAYS check the price first. If it is in my budget, I then go back and read the sales page to see if it is worth it. If it is way out of my price range, I just close out of the page... why read it and get tempted to buy something I cannot afford?

I have seen sales pages that don't even list the price, you have to click on the order button to see what number actually comes up!

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marketopoly

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Amy Bass

I ALWAYS check the price first. If it is in my budget, I then go back and read the sales page to see if it is worth it. If it is way out of my price range, I just close out of the page... why read it and get tempted to buy something I cannot afford?

I have seen sales pages that don't even list the price, you have to click on the order button to see what number actually comes up!

I agree with you, Ami.

I find it annoying having to go to the order page to see the price, particularly if I'm on slow speed broadband or dial-up and the initial sales page copy is long winded.

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ExRat 15 years ago

Hi,

Why do they try to HIDE the price in those long sales letters?

Because the split test results suggested that they should do so :rolleyes:
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- Tom B Banned 15 years ago
  
  That is nothing. I just tell people to send me a blank check in the mail. They will find out the cost once the check clears.
  
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  Jamie Iaconis 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap
  
  That is nothing. I just tell people to send me a blank check in the mail. They will find out the cost once the check clears.
  
  LOL, I like it... hilarious!
  
  Maybe I should do it that way too!
  
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deannatroupe

15 years ago

It annoys the crap out of me too. That's why I always try to put the price at the top of the letter to give people the information that they need up front. Yah, I know they won't read the whole sales letter, but if I've done my preselling correctly, then they'll have enough info. I hope I made sense to you.

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Daniel Scott

15 years ago

Originally Posted by deannatroupe

It annoys the crap out of me too. That's why I always try to put the price at the top of the letter to give people the information that they need up front. Yah, I know they won't read the whole sales letter, but if I've done my preselling correctly, then they'll have enough info. I hope I made sense to you.

Good idea. Maybe we should all just eschew proven marketing tactics in favor of what we "think" will work without testing it.

For all of you bitching and moaning that it doesn't work - test it. Do a hard, scientific test, then if you're right, come back and let us know.

But I can bet you won't be back.

-Dan

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Paul Myers

15 years ago

Jim,

The point I was trying to make is that you have to get people pulled in and think that the product is what they need. Most newbies will by this stuff and not do anything with it. Their fault. They will then move on to the next great product.

Ah. I got something different from it. I was a bit surprised, because what I thought you were saying didn't sound like what I'm used to hearing from you, good sense-wise.

I certainly wouldn't argue that most new folks buy stuff they won't (or sometimes can't) use. I warn against it fairly often, including in some of my sales letters.

Dennis,

Paul, this is the first time that I've seen someone asking a obvious question and getting attacked for it.

The reason for attacking the question has been explained a number of times in this thread. The phrasing of it is inaccurate and misleading, which will usually lead to wrong conclusions.

Explain to me why wearing down a customer is a good thing?

I believe you meant to use the word 'prospect' there, rather than 'customer.'

If you've already decided to buy before you get to the page, which happens more often than a lot of folks might think, it's not hard to find the order link. At least not on any sales page I can ever remember seeing.

Paul

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Desmond Ong

15 years ago

I'm a student of Corey Rudl internet marketing courses years ago and I remembered one thing he said, never ever put a big price tag in your salespage.

The reason? By simply hiding price tag in your sales copy, you are forcing the people to actually read your sales copy.

As most of you already know, sales copy can influenced people to buy stuff. So, by pushing people to read the sales copy, you are pushing people to buy your stuff psychologically.

I've used this technique and it worked very well.

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Kay King 15 years ago

They say it's so they can get their message across first to show the value - they say it works as it builds the excitement - they seem to plan that by the time you see the price, you are chomping at the bit to buy, no matter the cost. I think it's self-delusional to believe you can flog buyers to such a fever pitch that they won't care what the cost is.

Sellers give their reasons for hiding prices - but then ask why there is so much "shopping cart abandonment".

It's up to each seller how and where to show his price. My initial response to seeing this practice has not changed over time. My thought then was the seller wasn't convinced himself that his price was a good one for that product.

I've read posts by sellers who say "it works" - but I'd want to know "compared to what", "does it change the refund numbers", etc.

kay
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ebizman87

15 years ago

Because the copwriters know that by the time a prospect finished reading the letter he wouldn't buy the offer if THEY DON'T HIDE the price...

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Bright Wings

15 years ago

Well it might be an effective marketing tactic but from my perspective as a buyer it p*sses me off when they hide the price. My first thought is, if they are hiding something as important as the price, what else are they hiding? So it introduces an element of doubt and frustration. It breaks trust that they have been building all through the sales letter.

So I think it defeats its purpose more times than not. And it feels manipulative. I don't like doing business with people who try to manipulate me. Heck, the "I don't like you" overcomes what I want (your product.)

I can tell you that I have NEVER bought a single thing from a sales page where they make you click the order button before knowing the price.

I happen to be a person who values honesty and directness. And I am happy to pay people who give it to me, and withhold from those who don't.

So am I an outlier on this point? Maybe. But I bet I'm not the only one.

And whether it works or not? I don't do to my customers what I don't want done to me.

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Dan C. Rinnert

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeGriffith

Why is this?

So they can come on here and post a thread complaining about high shopping cart abandonment rates.

I like to give the price upfront and weed out the price shoppers, but that's just me.

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charlesburke

15 years ago

Nancy nailed it:

And whether it works or not? I don't do to my customers what I don't want done to me.

There are those who really do follow the golden rule - "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

And then there are those whose rule is just "do unto others." Period.

As this thread shows, it's not that hard to tell the difference.

Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
Charles

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Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by charlesburke

Nancy nailed it:

There are those who really do follow the golden rule - "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

And then there are those whose rule is just "do unto others." Period.

As this thread shows, it's not that hard to tell the difference.

Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
Charles

I don't think the golden rule applies here at all. This is not something
that is "done to anyone" as though it is a trick. I surely didn't tell
my wife when I first met her that I would like to marry her and
have four children with her and .... all the rest that go into putting
up with me as a husband.

The point is that you want to show value before you quote a price.
There is no "trick" involved here. It's common sense.

Everybody "hides the price" whether you want to admit it or not.

We do this every time we present our "good" side and hide our
"dark" sides like everyone does on a forum like this.

-Ray Edwards

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SullyUI

15 years ago

It's a copywriting technique that may or may not work depending on the product, type of traffic and other factors.

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Troy_Phillips

15 years ago

I did this sales page as a test . I basically did the exact opposite of what everyone says to do .

> No testimonials

> No screen shots

> No Graphics

The page converts like crazy . Now I know you are saying "this is a dollar product ".

I also tested two more exact pages at different price ranges . One for the dollar . One for $7 , and one for $17. I even started to do a $27 but face it , if you can sell it for a dollar there could be a lot of refunds if you sell it for $27 .

All the price levels converted well. The $7 dollar one is converting a little better than the dollar one . The $17 one is only 4% below the dollar one .

And they are all the exact same sales page .

Check it out here

Why am I showing you the $1 one . Because someone might actually want the product and we are all warriors here .

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JohnMcCabe 15 years ago

Why not take it the extreme?

Make the price the first thing anyone sees, even before the headline. Anyone willing to test that all the way?
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- Jamie Iaconis 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe
  
  Why not take it the extreme?
  
  Make the price the first thing anyone sees, even before the headline. Anyone willing to test that all the way?
  
  Now that you say that...
  
  One time I had, on the top of the page, that they
  would save $5 or $10 or w/e and it worked alright.
  
  This might be a way to do it... see, not the actual
  cost, but the amount of the savings!
  
  Jamie
  
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- WareTime 15 years ago
  
  We've had a lot of these "don't trust the man" type posts lately. Marketing is done the way marketing is done, because it works. If putting the price at the top in 72pt type worked, all the long pages would be like that.
  
  Other recent topics like this.
  
  Why is the price going up?
  
  Do sales copy formula turn you off?
  
  There have been a few others. Basically the formula is as follows. Someone with less than 100 posts says they don't like a tried and true formula, a few other less than 100 posters agree and then some people with 2000+ posts show up and say, that's the way it is, you aren't your market, get on with it.
  
  Nothing wrong with being new and questioning authority so to speak, but sometimes you just have to realize all the trees lean North because the prevailing winds are out of the South.
  
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Raydal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips

I did this sales page as a test . I basically did the exact opposite of what everyone says to do .

> No testimonials

> No screen shots

> No Graphics

The page converts like crazy . Now I know you are saying "this is a dollar product ".

I also tested two more exact pages at different price ranges . One for the dollar . One for $7 , and one for $17. I even started to do a $27 but face it , if you can sell it for a dollar there could be a lot of refunds if you sell it for $27 .

All the price levels converted well. The $7 dollar one is converting a little better than the dollar one . The $17 one is only 4% below the dollar one .

And they are all the exact same sales page .

Check it out here

Why am I showing you the $1 one . Because someone might actually want the product and we are all warriors here .

Hi Troy,

Great tests, but the idea of 'hiding the price' only becomes significant
at higher price levels. You can get away with breaking a lot of rules
at the WalMart price levels but not at higher values.

As I stated before, the lower your price is, you can state the price
even in the headline, because the price is no longer an objection
to overcome.

You'll even realize that for expensive items sold on TV you are asked
to send for a report, video tape etc,. and that's when you find
out the price, not in the TV ad itself.

The higher the price, the more selling you have to do before you
presenting the price.

As for those who claim that the scroll to see the price before they
even read the rest of the letter, price is never an objection if
you NEED the product. People have creative ways to find the
money for the things they NEED to get.

If you are shopping on price alone then you may not be the target
market anyway.

-Ray Edwards

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AndrewCavanagh 15 years ago

There are 2 main reasons:

# 1: You shouldn't reveal price in a sales letter before first establishing value so they're trying to make sure you've read some of the sales letter before you see the price.

# 2: In some cases they're testing different prices.

That's easier to do if you don't talk about the price much in the main sales page.

Personally I don't think it's going to help all that much.

If someone is scrolling down your sales letter before reading anything at the top then you really need to work on engaging them more right at the start of your sales letter so they actually read it.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
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TKChung

15 years ago

I found this is very annoying, too.

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MADINAZ

15 years ago

It's to build up and hype the product as much as they can so you think you cant live without it. By the end of the letter you've got that credit card out and price is just not on your mind need is. Then you buy it and that $1000 piece of software just sit's in your hard drive never to be used. Never buy based on hype.

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LB

15 years ago

If they ask you to enter your credit card info and then bill it without telling you the price, then maybe there is an issue here.

Never seen that.

What I have seen is marketers who have developed a converting sales flow and know what works.

Build value first and then ask for the sale.

A bunch of people here are saying "I scroll to the bottom to see the price first"...

WHY?

How do you even know if you want what's for sale until you've read the sales page?

I have cheap dog poop for sale...any takers? I won't even make you read sales copy, but the price is boldly stated!

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stevenh512

15 years ago

Originally Posted by LB

A bunch of people here are saying "I scroll to the bottom to see the price first"...

WHY?

How do you even know if you want what's for sale until you've read the sales page?

I'll tell you why. Because if a product doesn't fit my budget, it's a waste of my time to read the whole sales letter. Like someone else said in this same thread, if a product fits my budget then I'll go back and read the sales letter to see if it's something I can use. If I can't afford it, I can't buy it no matter how good it is (it could end all wars, cure our "addiction" to foreign oil and put a man on Mars.. still wouldn't help me any if it doesn't fit my budget). In that case, why waste my time reading a hyped up sales letter for something that's not going to do me the slightest bit of good?

Personally if I visit a sales page and can't find the price where I expect it to be (or worse, doesn't list a price at all and makes you click the order button to find out), I don't bother to read a word of it.. I just click the back button. I mean, seriously, would you buy from a store that had no price tags on the merchandise and the only way to find out how much it costs is to ring it up at the register?

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WareTime

15 years ago

Originally Posted by stevenh512

I mean, seriously, would you buy from a store that had no price tags on the merchandise and the only way to find out how much it costs is to ring it up at the register?

Amazon.com does this with some items. The last one I saw was a 52 inch LCD television. To find out the price you had to click and while I can't remember if it did in fact add it to your cart, you were a step closer to buying it.

I do what you do as far as finding out the price first and then reading if I'm still interested. Though I do this more out of curiosity on some of the big lauches we see than a product I'm genuinely searching for. But then I also know, I'm not the typical person I'm trying to sell to.

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Paul Myers

15 years ago

This thread has just inspired my next article. It's going to start with the line...

"Okay, students. Let's all get out our tin foil hats..."

... or something like that. Sheesh.

Paul

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Paul Myers

15 years ago

Question: Who can tell me the very first manipulative and deceptive sales technique in this thread?

The first person to get it right, and explain it properly, gets a nice little library of sales training materials.

Paul

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BlueStar

Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Question: Who can tell me the very first manipulative and deceptive sales technique in this thread?

The first person to get it right, and explain it properly, gets a nice little library of sales training materials.

Paul

Depending upon your viewpoint, I will say the Original poster.

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi Paul,

Who can tell me the very first manipulative and deceptive sales technique in this thread?

I imagine it has something to do with making money from forums/sig file by getting people to 'trust you', 'see you as an expert' and 'clicking on your sig link' - 'how to participate in forums for maximum results.' Stupidly simple, really

The deception is to appear to be simply asking a question (thus causing others to try and 'help you out'), while in fact you are deliberately stirring up controversy purely for sig file exposure and are not really interested at all in the answers - just the result of the sig file exposure.

Does it really qualify as deception when the game is blatantly given away?

As for the library, I'm not sure which one it is but if I'm right with my answer, I already have a fair section of the Myers' library on my hard drive already - I recommend it.

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Martin Luxton

15 years ago

Damn that ExRat, lurking fulltime at the WF ready to be the first to pounce on a competition!

I agree it's the OP, but to be more specific the capitalization of the word HIDE in the thread title.

"What? The gurus are HIDING something from me? Gotta check this out!!"

Martin

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Iain Ainsworth

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

Damn that ExRat, lurking fulltime at the WF ready to be the first to pounce on a competition!

I agree it's the OP, but to be more specific the capitalization of the word HIDE in the thread title.

"What? The gurus are HIDING something from me? Gotta check this out!!"

Martin

I agree it's in the headline the OP uses but not the word HIDE.

"Why do they..." implies an us/them 'conspiracy'.

Who are 'they'?

It's us!

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

BlueStar,

Not an explanation or a technique, so no.

Roger,

Excellent explanation of a potentially objectionable technique, but not the one I was looking for.

And it's not just my stuff in the library. There's stuff in there from some other folks, too. But thanks for the kind words.

Paul
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Jesus Perez

15 years ago

It's the person that can't find it that needs the library, Paul!

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Question: Who can tell me the very first manipulative and deceptive sales technique in this thread?

The first person to get it right, and explain it properly, gets a nice little library of sales training materials.

Paul

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Iain Ainsworth 15 years ago

Originally Posted by BlueSquares

It's the person that can't find it that needs the library, Paul!

True that!

Trouble is, that's the majority of us...
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Raydal 15 years ago

Originally Posted by BlueSquares

It's the person that can't find it that needs the library, Paul!

Then the competition should be about the first person who can't find it.

But it is to him that hath that it shall be given.

-Ray Edwards
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Kelly Verge

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Question: Who can tell me the very first manipulative and deceptive sales technique in this thread?

The first person to get it right, and explain it properly, gets a nice little library of sales training materials.

Paul

"It's interesting."

Since the sales letter strategy mentioned in the OP is so widespread that it's not only un-interesting but it's almost expected and since he stated his entire post in the title, that statement is really only meant to pull readers into the thread.

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Question: Who can tell me the very first manipulative and deceptive sales technique in this thread?

The first person to get it right, and explain it properly, gets a nice little library of sales training materials.

Paul

It's interesting. Everytime I read one of those hyped-up sales letters I instinctively scroll to the bottom to find out how much the item costs. But it seems they do their best to "hide" the price of their product somewhere in the script.

Why is this? Is it that they are ashamed of the high price...or that they don't think price is important...or what?? It seems the price would really stand out.

The premise is that a price that isn't posted in an obvious place is automatically high, and something to be ashamed of. And those nefarious marketers are trying to put one over on the reader.

It's kind of ironic that if you go to the OP's blog, there's not a price to be found without clicking through to one of those long sales letters... :rolleyes: