This is getting REALLY ANNOYING!

45 replies
Why is it that WF is always deleting my posts? This is getting downright annoying and ridiculous! Whenever I post something in this section, it gets deleted and my total number of posts is still at 1 till date! It's not like I make offers or anything of that sort. Just normal posts! It is totally pissing me off! STOP IT! I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but I'm getting fed up with it. JEEZ!
#annoying
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Might be because you haven't read and followed the rules maybe?

    Mark

    Originally Posted by twranks View Post

    Why is it that WF is always deleting my posts? This is getting downright annoying and ridiculous! Whenever I post something in this section, it gets deleted and my total number of posts is still at 1 till date! It's not like I make offers or anything of that sort. Just normal posts! It is totally pissing me off! STOP IT! I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but I'm getting fed up with it. JEEZ!
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    I bet you can guess what is going to happen now....
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  • Profile picture of the author twranks
    If I hadn't, I would not be posting this. It makes no sense that any informative post I make here will be deleted for no reason and without any notification. It's really annoying
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      You're posting what appear to be articles, and they're getting reported. That usually gets posts deleted.

      Nothing personal.
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      • Profile picture of the author twranks
        My last post was definitely not an article I copied. I have never written a copied article here before. Sure, some of my other posts were questions which I was asking the community about but I have never skipped the rules by posting ads or anything of the sort. Sometimes my posts were kept for weeks on end but once I replied or quoted a comment, I got deleted. If there is any rule stating that we should not reply comments to our posts, show me and I won't do it again.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          It can be entirely original and still be seen as an article. Doesn't have to have appeared anywhere else. The rule also doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the material. Some of what get deleted here as articles contain potentially very useful information.

          Leaving most article-like posts would just encourage more of the same, and that isn't healthy for a discussion area in a forum.

          Like I said: Nothing personal.
          Sometimes my posts were kept for weeks on end but once I replied or quoted a comment, I got deleted.
          Whole different issue. If the gap between the most recent post by someone else and your response is too big (more than a day, usually), that's considered bumping, and will usually also get a post deleted and/or a thread locked.

          The reason for that is the tendency some people have of gaming the system to keep their threads at the top of the list. Let that go unchecked for more than a few days, and it will result in a hand full of threads dominating the discussion, to the detriment of other posters.


          Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author twranks
    Well that wasn't shown on the rules for newbies. It would be good if you add that to the rules here so that some people don't get frustrated like i did

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...bers-read.html

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Originally Posted by twranks View Post

      Well that wasn't shown on the rules for newbies. It would be good if you add that to the rules here so that some people don't get frustrated like i did
      Trying to post rules for every situation is a fast-track to insanity. With the incentive to leverage the audience of this forum for personal gain, it just motivates people to try and find more ways around them. That generates more abuse, which means more rules, and on and on it goes.

      Common sense, on the other hand, is a pretty good guide.

      Ask yourself: Do monologues really belong in a medium designed for discussion? No. Hence, articles don't belong.

      Ask yourself: Is it polite to use artificial means to dominate a conversational venue? (Hint: Same answer as above.)

      The bumping thing isn't as obvious as some other issues. We don't generally say much about it, and it's really unusual for someone to even get a warning for it, much less anything more serious. We just delete the bump, close the thread to stop it, and move on to the next report.

      Articles are a bit different, in that the poster often feels they have enough potential personal gain from them that they'll start arguments about the deletions.

      That's not the only reason, of course. Some people really do put a huge amount of time and effort into them, with no intention other than to help. But that's the exception, rather than the rule, and we're not mindreaders. It wouldn't matter if we were, really, as the end result would be the same.

      By the time you've been a member for over a year, we expect you to have familiarized yourself with the conventions of the place. You don't get to play the "newbie" card at that point, no matter how many or how few posts you have.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author twranks
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Trying to post rules for every situation is a fast-track to insanity. With the incentive to leverage the audience of this forum for personal gain, it just motivates people to try and find more ways around them. That generates more abuse, which means more rules, and on and on it goes.

        Common sense, on the other hand, is a pretty good guide.

        Ask yourself: Do monologues really belong in a medium designed for discussion? No. Hence, articles don't belong.

        Ask yourself: Is it polite to use artificial means to dominate a conversational venue? (Hint: Same answer as above.)

        The bumping thing isn't as obvious as some other issues. We don't generally say much about it, and it's really unusual for someone to even get a warning for it, much less anything more serious. We just delete the bump, close the thread to stop it, and move on to the next report.

        Articles are a bit different, in that the poster often feels they have enough potential personal gain from them that they'll start arguments about the deletions.

        That's not the only reason, of course. Some people really do put a huge amount of time and effort into them, with no intention other than to help. But that's the exception, rather than the rule, and we're not mindreaders. It wouldn't matter if we were, really, as the end result would be the same.

        By the time you've been a member for over a year, we expect you to have familiarized yourself with the conventions of the place. You don't get to play the "newbie" card at that point, no matter how many or how few posts you have.


        Paul
        1.) Much as I agree (partly) with the fact that you can't post all the rules of an IM forum on the website, it is ridiculous to describe getting deleted for posting "articles" or responding to a comment to your thread a couple weeks late (seeing that we don't get any notifications when comments are posted on our threads) as common sense... there is only so much one can know when entering this forum!

        2. I have been a member for over a year now, but I actively started posting threads a few months ago. The reason I joined in 2012 was to ask a question about a crappy e-marketing company called e-learnU to which I never even got an answer. I actively started using WF in August this year

        3. I have taken note of all you have said, and while I don't still see the need for all these restrictions, I will try sticking within these boundaries when making posts next time.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
          Originally Posted by twranks View Post

          1.) Much as I agree (partly) with the fact that you can't post all the rules of an IM forum on the website, it is ridiculous to describe getting deleted for posting "articles" or responding to a comment to your thread a couple weeks late (seeing that we don't get any notifications when comments are posted on our threads) as common sense... there is only so much one can know when entering this forum!.
          To get notified of new replies to threads you have posted to, go to User CP --> Edit Options --> Messaging & Notification --> Default Thread Subscription Mode and change to whatever you like.

          Mark
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        • Profile picture of the author marketingva
          Originally Posted by twranks View Post

          1.) 3. I have taken note of all you have said, and while I don't still see the need for all these restrictions, I will try sticking within these boundaries when making posts next time.
          It doesn't matter if you see the need for all these restrictions or not. You don't own the forum. This is a privately owned property and the owner and moderators can do as they please. It isn't your place to tell them what to do.

          If you disagree with the rules then you can go elsewhere. No one has a gun to your head forcing you to use the Warrior Forum. If you do want to continue to contribute do it with the mindset that your posts can be deleted at any time. Then you won't be upset if it happens again.

          Even posting this thread to complain about the deletions is a rule violation but Paul, the moderator, was kind enough to explain the rules to you instead of just deleting this thread entirely.

          I get so tired of these endless complaining threads by people who think they should get to make the rules even though they don't own the website.

          Bonnie
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            I fear that the dancing bananas are on their way!!!!! :rolleyes:


            Shane
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          • Profile picture of the author twranks
            Originally Posted by marketingva View Post

            It doesn't matter if you see the need for all these restrictions or not. You don't own the forum. This is a privately owned property and the owner and moderators can do as they please. It isn't your place to tell them what to do.

            Even posting this thread to complain about the deletions is a rule violation but Paul, the moderator, was kind enough to explain the rules to you instead of just deleting this thread entirely.
            I think I need to make myself clear. I have no issues with the restrictions, I just think it would be good for new users to get some kind of basic orientation so at least we know what we are getting into. Thanks to Paul for explaining some of the rules to me. Breaking the rule was the only way I could understand what was happening to all my posts. I genuinely thought my account was being hacked or something and it was getting frustrating.

            That said, I love the forum as I have met some great people through it and I have also made income as well. And yes, I'll stick to the rules
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            • Profile picture of the author Steve B
              Originally Posted by twranks View Post

              I just think it would be good for new users to get some kind of basic orientation
              TW,

              Thanks to Paul you have now been given lots more orientation than almost everyone else on the forum.

              Read and learn rules, watch and observe how others post and avoid complaining about the rules, other people, WSOs, and lastly, never promote anything here unless you first pay for it . . . and you should be just fine.

              The best to you,

              Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author twranks
    Wish someone had told me that a while ago, Thanks Mark.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I know I ain't too bright, but can you explain what makes a post qualify as an article?
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    Tim Pears

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Tim,
      can you explain what makes a post qualify as an article?
      Monolog vs dialog.

      If a piece would seem in place on a web page all by itself, or you would not be surprised to see it included in a broadcast email as the primary content, that's probably going to be treated as an article for purposes of this forum. While many replies fit that description, we're talking mainly here about thread starters.

      While we're on the subject... Videos as thread starters are almost always treated as articles/promotional pieces in most sections of the forum. The reasoning is this: We're not going to watch every video posted to see if it's really just a promo piece.

      Like most rules, there are exceptions. OT sometimes seems to run on videos, but they're rarely promotional. (The regulars in the lounge have more clue about conversation than that.) A video by Matt Cutts posted in the SEO section is usually going to be okay.

      As a side note, we get people occasionally posting what is obviously an article, and tacking the word "Discuss" or something similar at the end. That makes deletion much more likely, as it shows they understood they were breaking the rules and were trying to end-run them.

      Steve,
      you have now been given lots more orientation than almost everyone else on the forum.
      Probably beats the way one of our mods used to handle these. Automatic deletion and a 1-week ban for this type of thread. Not my personal preferred response, but he was absolutely consistent. For the first time, it was always the same thing. Delete, ban for a week. (Same for posting articles.) There are enough people who are annoyed enough by the constant repetition of the same complaints that I'm sure many would see that as a good thing.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Monolog vs dialog . . . If a piece would seem in place on a web page all by itself, or you would not be surprised to see it included in a broadcast email as the primary content, that's probably going to be treated as an article for purposes of this forum. While many replies fit that description, we're talking mainly here about thread starters.

        Paul,

        While the following "thread starters" precisely fit your definition of "articles," these are exactly the type of posts I love reading and consider of great value to both newbies and seasoned Warriors.

        They are the "this is what I've learned over the years about IM" threads that a lot of people respond to, comment on, and give genuine thanks for. Here are just three recent examples:


        Will Edwards - Here's what I did without a plan

        John Romaine - Here's my advice for beginners

        Kenster - Formula for making money with anything


        Please continue to allow these types of posts, maybe as "exceptions" to the rule, about not posting "articles."

        Thanks,

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author aliirfan01
    Banned
    firstly beats the way one of our mods used to handle these.Instinctive deletion after 1-week ban for this type of thread. Than delete,ban for a week,and similarly for posting articles.
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    Traning
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Originally Posted by aliirfan01 View Post

      firstly beats the way one of our mods used to handle these.Instinctive deletion after 1-week ban for this type of thread. Than delete,ban for a week,and similarly for posting articles.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
      Traning
      [chuckle]

      That was either a bot or the most clueless spammer ever to hit this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mikaedi88
    Im actually pleased Twranks brought this up, honestly, not considered a newbie on the WF now, I was not aware of the rules with posting articles..hell, I wouldn't even be able to tell the diffirence.

    @Bonny and others who wish to blast twranks for complaining..all he was doing was bringing up a legitimate point as to why his posts were being deleted.
    being more encouraging to knew members is a better way to go rather than taking a critical approach.

    Thanks Paul for clarifying why the members posts were being deleted, it sure makes us all more aware now of the rules of the forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author Meharis
      Originally Posted by Mikaedi88 View Post

      @Bonny and others who wish to blast twranks for complaining..all he was doing was bringing up a legitimate point as to why his posts were being deleted.
      being more encouraging to knew members is a better way to go rather than taking a critical approach.
      Mikaedi88,

      "all he was doing was bringing up a legitimate point "

      The point is "How" he was bring up a (not) legitimate point:

      "ridiculous!, totally pissing me off!, STOP IT!, JEEZ!"

      Asking first will give a lot better results in every aspect.
      Anyhow, that's my personal point of view.

      Meharis
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Garratt
    I have had the occasional thread deleted in the past and I still have no idea why. How is anyone going to learn by their mistakes if they aren't even told that the deletion has happened let alone the reasons why?

    Disclaimer: I have been coming to this forum almost daily for years and I love it despite losing the odd thread here and there.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Steve Garratt View Post

      I have had the occasional thread deleted in the past and I still have no idea why. How is anyone going to learn by their mistakes if they aren't even told that the deletion has happened let alone the reasons why?

      Disclaimer: I have been coming to this forum almost daily for years and I love it despite losing the odd thread here and there.
      It's actually pretty simple. If you can't find your thread where you started it, it's either been deleted or moved.

      As for why threads get deleted, sometimes it has nothing to do with the original poster.

      If a thread turns into a nasty argument, turns into a religious/political argument or just a garden variety flame war, it will likely get deleted.

      Another one I've seen disappear pretty consistently is the question asked in such a way that it turns into a pitchfest of "PM me" and "see my sig" replies.

      Another seemingly innocuous one is the person looking for exposure by asking for recommendations that have been beaten to death many times. For example, "what is the best host/autoresponder" type questions.

      What they all have in common is that they hinder the main purpose of this forum - discussion.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Wish someone had told me that a while ago
        You could have found that info yourself....

        How do I subscribe to a thread or forum?

        There are rules posted - there are FAQs posted - you can see how others successfully post threads. If your threads are consistently deleted - good idea to analyze what YOU are doing as that's likely where the problem is. It's a learning process - but you have to participate.

        kay
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by Steve Garratt View Post

      I have had the occasional thread deleted in the past and I still have no idea why. How is anyone going to learn by their mistakes if they aren't even told that the deletion has happened let alone the reasons why?

      Disclaimer: I have been coming to this forum almost daily for years and I love it despite losing the odd thread here and there.
      Steve, this is a good and reasonable question that comes up from time to time. Having once moderated the War Room a couple of years ago I can tell you from my experience that there just isn't the time to explain the rules to everyone who breaks them (and that was just one sub-forum).

      The mods focus is to enforce the rules first and foremost. It just isn't possible to explain every rule that gets broken or violated or if they make a judgment call. Secondly, any time I took the time to explain why a thread was deleted or why it was moved, 9 times out of 10 the member would try and argue why they were right and why I wasn't enforcing the rule correctly or that I should give them a break.

      Moderators who try in the beginning, quickly find out that is isn't an efficient use of their time to explain all the rules to someone in most instances. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are exceptions (like this thread).

      This thread is a good example of a thread that should have been deleted, but sometimes they get left up as an educational tool, especially if it refers to one of the unwritten rules of the forum or if a moderator had to make a judgment call.

      RoD
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

        Moderators who try, quickly find out that is isn't an efficient use of their time to explain all the rules to someone in most instances. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are exceptions (like this thread).

        This thread is a good example of a thread that should have been deleted, but sometimes they get left up as an educational tool, especially if it refers to one of the unwritten rules of the forum or if a moderator had to make a judgment call.

        RoD
        Here's an idea...

        How about a "if your thread/post gets deleted" sticky with links to some of these threads explaining the stuff that doesn't really belong in the formal rules?

        Maybe put it right under the new member rules?
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        • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Here's an idea...

          How about a "if your thread/post gets deleted" sticky with links to some of these threads explaining the stuff that doesn't really belong in the formal rules?

          Maybe put it right under the new member rules?
          I like that idea John, though, frankly, most of the people who would need to read it wouldn't.

          RoD
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

            I like that idea John, though, frankly, most of the people who would need to read it wouldn't.

            RoD
            Understood. But, like the ones for the rules and the "member moderators", it would give people something easy to point out and save Paul the time he spends explaining things to people.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              It makes good sense to me, certainly. Put it up in the "Suggestions Forum", as well, John, and we'll get a little quorum of people supporting it?
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Garratt
        Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

        Steve, this is a good and reasonable question that comes up from time to time. Having once moderated the War Room a couple of years ago I can tell you from my experience that there just isn't the time to explain the rules to everyone who breaks them (and that was just one sub-forum).

        The mods focus is to enforce the rules first and foremost. It just isn't possible to explain every rule that gets broken or violated or if they make a judgment call. Secondly, any time I took the time to explain why a thread was deleted or why it was moved, 9 times out of 10 the member would try and argue why they were right and why I wasn't enforcing the rule correctly or that I should give them a break.

        Moderators who try in the beginning, quickly find out that is isn't an efficient use of their time to explain all the rules to someone in most instances. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are exceptions (like this thread).

        This thread is a good example of a thread that should have been deleted, but sometimes they get left up as an educational tool, especially if it refers to one of the unwritten rules of the forum or if a moderator had to make a judgment call.

        RoD
        Rod, I completely understand why the mods don't have the time to inform when deleting stuff and I don't envy them the job. On the whole they do a great job of cleaning up the forum. Unfortunately it does not help people like me who desperately want to follow the rules but can't figure out why something has been deleted. If I can't figure it out then I might make the same mistake again which is not my intention.

        I don't know what the answer is or what to suggest as a possible solution I'm afraid.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
          Originally Posted by Steve Garratt View Post

          Rod, I completely understand why the mods don't have the time to inform when deleting stuff and I don't envy them the job. On the whole they do a great job of cleaning up the forum. Unfortunately it does not help people like me who desperately want to follow the rules but can't figure out why something has been deleted. If I can't figure it out then I might make the same mistake again which is not my intention.

          I don't know what the answer is or what to suggest as a possible solution I'm afraid.
          You're right, those who want to follow the rules and aren't quite sure what some of the unwritten ones are are bound to violate them and in some instances they won't know why.

          I think John's idea has some merit. It's a good idea. I know that some of the mods, if they sense that a person is making an honest mistake, especially if there's a trend, they might take the time to send that person a private message to inform them on how things work around here.

          It does happen. All I'm saying that it's not feasible to do it every time; and I don't know what the solution would be either.

          Many things have been tried before in the past, including having more rules, and it just didn't work out. Though I do like John's idea of having one sticky that would have a space for some of the "unwritten" rules that people can be referred to.

          Ultimately, it's up to the forum owner.

          RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    You mess with the BULL and you get the HORNS. Simple as that, newb.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    I have had posts deleted in the past - it can be annoying but I also understand:

    A) It is NOT my forum - the owner of the forum can do what they like!

    B) At the minute there are 27870 people browsing the forum - can you imagine how hard it is to manage?

    My advice - if you don't like it build a better forum with your own rules that you own.

    Disclaimer: This could take you years of hard work and you may also get complaints when you delete threads that you deem not fit for YOUR forum

    Just my 2p.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim3
    You are not having a lot of luck are, looks like another just got nuked.
    Try posting something positive, it's much more likely to stick.
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    • Profile picture of the author twranks
      Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

      You are not having a lot of luck are, looks like another just got nuked.
      Try posting something positive, it's much more likely to stick.
      I still don't understand what you mean, please elaborate
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim3
        Originally Posted by twranks View Post

        I still don't understand what you mean, please elaborate
        I believe I just commented on another of your threads which has mysteriously disappeared.
        The WF is a tiddly ship, and if a post rocks the boat it gets thrown overboard
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Originally Posted by twranks View Post

    It's not like I make offers or anything of that sort. Just normal posts! It is totally pissing me off! STOP IT!
    Don't feel bad... i feel the same way when i contact women online and they delete my messages lol .

    Real talk... make high quality posts that will actually help people, and that can possibly help someone realize a "small" idea that could be life-changing for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author twranks
    All I simply asked on this thread was why my posts were getting deleted. It sucks that everyone intends to take it the wrong way. I don't care what any of you want to post here. It just sucks that trying to find out information led to a whole lot of back lashing by people I thought to be mature and respectable. And to whoever said I used vulgar language on my thread... How would you feel if over twelve of your posts were deleted with no warning? I rest my case
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    • Profile picture of the author seo-it-right
      Originally Posted by twranks View Post

      All I simply asked on this thread was why my posts were getting deleted. It sucks that everyone intends to take it the wrong way. I don't care what any of you want to post here. It just sucks that trying to find out information led to a whole lot of back lashing by people I thought to be mature and respectable. And to whoever said I used vulgar language on my thread... How would you feel if over twelve of your posts were deleted with no warning? I rest my case
      Just stick to the rules like the rest of us do and you will be fine.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
      Originally Posted by twranks View Post

      All I simply asked on this thread was why my posts were getting deleted. It sucks that everyone intends to take it the wrong way. I don't care what any of you want to post here. It just sucks that trying to find out information led to a whole lot of back lashing by people I thought to be mature and respectable. And to whoever said I used vulgar language on my thread... How would you feel if over twelve of your posts were deleted with no warning? I rest my case
      Just chill relax...and welcome to WF...

      It happens all the time to everyone. I make lots of one liner jokes that Paul loves whacking out of the park with deletes. But its ok and normal. Think of it like a forum quality control where if you don't have anything constructive to say about the subject at hand. You run the risk of getting your post deleted.
      That's why we use the thanks button. That lets us agree with someone or thank someone, without having to write a reply. So yeah don't worry its nothing personal. You just have to know whats up.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Steve B,

        Will's post: That was posted 2 years ago. I'm not going to second-guess a decision made that long ago, by any one of nearly a dozen people who could have made it.

        If he offered that today, given his prior history of regularly posting articles here, it would almost certainly have been deleted.

        John's post: Should probably have been deleted for the unnecessary profanity, and would have been if I'd seen it early on. Other than that, it wasn't intended (as I read it) to be a personal soapbox. John has a history of participation that buys him a bit more leeway.

        To the new folks... Yes, people who've been around the place for years and regularly contribute in a productive way get more slack than newer members. That's true in almost any group.

        Kenster's post: I don't see that as an article, but I wouldn't argue the point with someone who did. That one is clearly in the judgement call area. Given the fact that he doesn't "post and run," but stays involved in threads he starts and adds more value to them and answers questions and comments, I'm inclined to assume his threads will develop into even more useful content, rather than devolve into self-promotional binges.

        Again, an established pattern of participation figures into the equation.

        twranks,
        It just sucks that trying to find out information led to a whole lot of back lashing by people I thought to be mature and respectable.
        Perhaps you might go back and re-read the post with which you started this thread and ask yourself if you might not have set that tone.

        A cautionary note, for anyone who might find it useful: If you have no real posting history and you start a thread like this, you're likely to attract the attention of some of the regulars who are tired of seeing the same complaints, over and over. Those people will be more likely to notice your other posts and report them if they're near the lines.

        Even if this sort of thing is totally out of character for you, people won't know it when you're new. First impressions and all that.

        Kevin,
        I make lots of one liner jokes that Paul loves whacking out of the park with deletes.
        Unlikely. I rarely delete humorous posts. That said, there are 7 forum-wide mods at the moment, and a bunch of mods in the sub-forums (along with Janet, who moderates the blogs) who carry the majority of the load. If one of them feels you're overdoing it, they might well respond out of that judgement.

        There are whole sections of this forum that I don't visit at all, unless I happen to be the one who catches a report of a problem.


        Paul
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        Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Although a less than wonderful start, this has been a very good thread. I appreciate the explanations. I never knew about the "article" issue before.

          Thanks,

          Joe Mobley
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          Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
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  • Profile picture of the author domainscience
    At least yours get deleted, my posts don't even make it and I have no clue why
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    CandlePrize.com

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