What is my legal position?

10 years ago

Asking for your legal position here is probably not a good idea. Just grab a layer and he will be happy to answer your legal questions.

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2 replies

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RetiredOldDude 10 years ago

Originally Posted by hpgoodboy

Asking for your legal position here is probably not a good idea. Just grab a layer and he will be happy to answer your legal questions.

Thanks.

What about the other questions?
- Thanks
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An Al

10 years ago

Originally Posted by hpgoodboy

Asking for your legal position here is probably not a good idea. Just grab a layer and he will be happy to answer your legal questions.

He doesn't need a lawyer. What he plans to do is a violation of copyright. You can't steal another site's content to use on your own. When they find out, they will likely have your site taken down with a DMCA request. If you're lucky, it ends there. If you're not lucky, it ends up with hiring a lawyer to defend against a lawsuit.

What would you suggest?

Not stealing someone elses content for starters.

Thanks
1 reply

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SunilTanna

10 years ago

Originally Posted by An Al

He doesn't need a lawyer. What he plans to do is a violation of copyright. You can't steal another site's content to use on your own. When they find out, they will likely have your site taken down with a DMCA request. If you're lucky, it ends there. If you're not lucky, it ends up with hiring a lawyer to defend against a lawsuit.

Not stealing someone elses content for starters.

Ianal, and I think his plan is sleazy at best, but I think it's not clear if it is a copyright infringement of the forum depending on what he copies.

Unless there is a written assignment of copyright from the post author, or the post author is employed by the forum, the copyright in their post most likely belongs to the post author rather than the forum (a written conveyance is usually required to transfer copyright except in cases of works for hire). The upshot of this, is the forum may not have Standing to assert copyright on the posts, at least not all of them. The individual post authors however could assert copyright.

Thanks
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RetiredOldDude

10 years ago

Originally Posted by SunilTanna

Ianal, and I think his plan is sleazy at best, but I think it's not clear if it is a copyright infringement of the forum depending on what he copies.

Unless there is a written assignment of copyright from the post author, or the post author is employed by the forum, the copyright in their post most likely belongs to the post author rather than the forum (a written conveyance is usually required to transfer copyright except in cases of works for hire). The upshot of this, is the forum may not have Standing to assert copyright on the posts, at least not all of them. The individual post authors however could assert copyright.

That is how our Attorneys had explained it to us. I was looking for confirmation here on this forum. Thank you

Thanks

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Rbtmarshall

10 years ago

1. i dont know
2. your plan will be against googles TOS
3. search engine optimization with duplicate feed content? good luck with that... And what affiliate marketeers? what will they be selling stolen data feeds?
4. why would mybb care what you do with their software, read their terms of use

I'd start over with a new plan.

Thanks
1 reply

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RetiredOldDude 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rbtmarshall

2. your plan will be against googles TOS

Really? Would they refuse to send traffic to the site?

Originally Posted by Rbtmarshall

3. search engine optimization with duplicate feed content? good luck with that...

As I said, I intend to BUY all my traffic.
I have NO desire to try to get traffic through intense SEO efforts (its not worth the time, effort or the hassle)

Originally Posted by Rbtmarshall

I'd start over with a new plan.

What would you suggest?
- Thanks
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Rbtmarshall

10 years ago

I must have misread the SEO part. And just from memory from the random crap I've read over time, Google adwords/adsense does have restrictions of some sort on sites that don't contain original content.

Thanks

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RetiredOldDude

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RetiredOldDude

I am considering starting a forum (based on the stock market). As it will be a brand new Forum, I am thinking about "seeding" it with about 100 threads and 100 articles from other forums and stock market sites.

1. What is my legal position?

2. I will be using Google Pay Per Click to drive traffic to the site. Will Google care that it is not original material?

3. As I will be using paid traffic only, I am not concerned about any Search Engine Optimization issues. Will any of my potential affiliate marketers be concerned?

4. The site is a standard MyBB Bulletin Board Forum site. Would MyBB be concerned? My main competitor does NOT use a MyBB site.

Thanks

Anyone else have any suggestions or recommendations regarding what I am wanting to do.

Thanks
1 reply

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John Taylor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RetiredOldDude

Anyone else have any suggestions or recommendations regarding what I am wanting to do.

I think it's a sleazy way to start a business.

Put yourself in the shoes of a potential customer who
is already a member of one, or more, of the forums you
intend to take content from.... Would you trust the guy
running the forum?

Also, consider the owners of the forums you're taking
the content from... Do you think they might consider
issuing you with a DCMA notice? I know I would.

Have you considered investing some time and money
in creating a business based on honesty and integrity?

John

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RetiredOldDude

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Taylor

I think it's a sleazy way to start a business.

Put yourself in the shoes of a potential customer who
is already a member of one, or more, of the forums you
intend to take content from.... Would you trust the guy
running the forum?

Also, consider the owners of the forums you're taking
the content from... Do you think they might consider
issuing you with a DCMA notice? I know I would.

Have you considered investing some time and money
in creating a business based on honesty and integrity?

John

So, from your post I understand that you think that it may be ethically borderline.
But is it legally wrong?

Thanks
2 replies

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An Al 10 years ago

Originally Posted by RetiredOldDude

So, from your post I understand that you think that it may be ethically borderline.

Then you don't understand very well. It's not borderline at all.

But is it legally wrong?

Have you ever seen that FBI warning they put on dvd movies warning about illegally copying copyrighted material? It's not there just for the heck of it.

Yes, it is legally wrong.

If you can afford PPC for stock market related ads, you can afford to have your own content produced.
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John Taylor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RetiredOldDude

So, from your post I understand that you think that it may be ethically borderline.
But is it legally wrong?

There's nothing "borderline" about it... it's unethical.

As far as being "legal", ask a lawyer. I'm not qualified to answer.

John

Thanks
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RetiredOldDude

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Taylor

There's nothing "borderline" about it... it's unethical.
As far as being "legal", ask a lawyer. I'm not qualified to answer.
John

Hi John,

Thanks for your opinion. I do respect it.

But maybe you should read this ( http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post8633019 ).

Then advise me as to the best alternative.

Thanks
1 reply

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John Taylor

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RetiredOldDude

Hi John,

Thanks for your opinion. I do respect it.

But maybe you should read this ( http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post8633019 ).

Then advise me as to the best alternative.

The advice James gave you is likely to be the most
effective way of building a forum. However, you seem
to think that he got it the wrong way round.

Ironicly... you can't have it both ways. You either put in
the hard work outlined in James' response, Or you put in
hard work by engaging your target audience though paid
traffic.

Either way... you don't use other people's content without
permission.

John

Thanks

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johnben1444

10 years ago

Certainly SEO is not in your plan if you want to copy 100 contents from other forums to your site which to me is a big negligence on your part and shooting yourself in the foot right before you begin.

All the forums I know got started naturally and organic traffic is still one of their top traffic source.

I can't recall the number of times I search for issues on Google and forums keep popping up on the first page hands free without any SEO/backlinks from the forum owners.

I advice having all the right categories and use enough exposures as you can from SEO, PPC, social media, blogging, advertising your site on top stock market sites that allow paid ads.

It's actually a tall goal but consistency is the key.

Thanks

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trader909

10 years ago

don't be silly John....it's 2013 ;-)

Have you considered investing some time and money
in creating a business based on honesty and integrity?

Thanks

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Sweersz

10 years ago

It's a horrible idea. You'd get at least one DMCA notice for sure. PPC will only get you so far until you run out of money, then having to resort to SEO but by that time, you'll probably be blacklisted for violating Google's TOS.

If I visited a forum and realized that all the content was copied from a whole bunch of other sources, I'd leave. There's no trust or credibility... poor business model.

Thanks

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Jeffery Moss

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RetiredOldDude

I am considering starting a forum (based on the stock market). As it will be a brand new Forum, I am thinking about "seeding" it with about 100 threads and 100 articles from other forums and stock market sites.

2. I will be using Google Pay Per Click to drive traffic to the site. Will Google care that it is not original material?

3. As I will be using paid traffic only, I am not concerned about any Search Engine Optimization issues. Will any of my potential affiliate marketers be concerned?

Ethical or legal issues aside, it's possible you could prevent your competitor from knowing you had scraped their content if you block access to web crawlers on your pages. That won't be a real issue with search engine ranking as you mentioned you are not worried about SEO. And, that will negate the possibility the other site owner would take legal action against you.

As for the Google PPC, it might be useful to read their TOS to see what their view is on sites using content that is not original. That's the only advice I could give you about that part.

Thanks

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Cali16

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RetiredOldDude

I am considering starting a forum (based on the stock market). As it will be a brand new Forum, I am thinking about "seeding" it with about 100 threads and 100 articles from other forums and stock market sites.

The forum threads issue aside (although I strongly suspect there is some sort of copyright infringement there), are you planning to obtain permission from the owners of those stock market sites to use their articles on your forum?

I'd certainly recommend talking to a lawyer before you do anything, as you are heading down a very precarious road if you move forward with this plan.

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PBScott

10 years ago

I would suggest for your seeding, to do as most news syndication's do, rewrite the article and cite the source.

It takes a lot of time to get a forum running, good luck with it....I would suggest looking to see if any are for sale before you start...buy the content rather than scraping, or writing it.

Thanks
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RetiredOldDude

10 years ago

Originally Posted by PBScott

I would suggest for your seeding, to do as most news syndication's do, rewrite the article and cite the source.

Thanks for the tip. We will follow that little gem of advice

Originally Posted by PBScott

It takes a lot of time to get a forum running, good luck with it....I would suggest looking to see if any are for sale before you start...buy the content rather than scraping, or writing it.

We intend to have the forum up and running within 2 weeks. Fully loaded. And with a solid advertising budget.
Tried to buy our main competitor but they were "unrealistic".

Thanks
1 reply

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Cali16 10 years ago

Originally Posted by RetiredOldDude

We intend to have the forum up and running within 2 weeks. Fully loaded. And with a solid advertising budget.

It seems pretty evident that you don't really care about the potential legal ramifications of your plan. Despite several warnings, it seems you're still determined to have your site up and running in 2 weeks "fully loaded" by taking content from other sites, which is the real issue here - as multiple WF members have pointed out.

With all due respect, you need to either 1) change your time frame to one that is more realistic (and doesn't require stealing others' content), 2) work like crazy to write your own content to "seed" your site, and/or 3) spend the $$$ to pay someone to create unique, quality content for you (which isn't going to be inexpensive, as the stock market is a pretty specialized, complex topic). You simply can't just steal / take / "borrow" content from other sites and use it on your site without getting permission from those sites' owners. (Well, you can, just like you can go out and rob a bank to fund your business venture...but that doesn't make it ethical or legal.)

As they say, haste makes waste, and your business plan is a really bad one. Sorry to be harsh, but taking a shortcut by stealing content from other sites is not only lazy and unethical (no "borderline" about it) but you're also setting yourself up for failure (and potential legal problems due to copyright issues).

But hey, if you want to take that risk, don't say you weren't warned. You might get away with it for a short while, but it will be at the sacrifice of your integrity and possibly your reputation, and maybe a lot more than that.

If you TRULY want to know your legal position, don't seek it here - consult with an attorney who is familiar with Internet law.
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- RetiredOldDude 10 years ago
  
  Cali16
  Thanks for your opinion. I do respect it.
  But I ask that you re-read post 16 above
  
  Thanks
  
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Patbinc

10 years ago

Originally Posted by RetiredOldDude

I am considering starting a forum (based on the stock market). As it will be a brand new Forum, I am thinking about "seeding" it with about 100 threads and 100 articles from other forums and stock market sites.

1. What is my legal position?

Thanks

Forget about seeding it with threads and articles from other forums and sites. You will lose credibility so fast you won't know what hit you. Would you have come to warrior forum if you knew the guy running this is getting content from other forums and sites?

What will keep people from joining the forums where you are getting the original content from?!

You haven't figured out your business yet. The worst you could do is hire people on Fiverr to post fresh threads and participate for a while till you have enough content to become credible.

Anything short of clean, fresh content will not cut it.

Thanks
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RetiredOldDude

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Patbinc

You haven't figured out your business yet. The worst you could do is hire people on Fiverr to post fresh threads and participate for a while till you have enough content to become credible.

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate and respect it.

I was intending to do that ( hire people on Fiverr to post fresh threads) in addition to "seeding" the site.

But I also intend to have a solid backing of other threads and articles to bulk it up in the initial stages.

Thanks