Confirmed opt in on or off?

by BennyP
39 replies
Which should i do?

If it is off will my emails end up in peoples junk folders?
#confirmed #opt
  • Profile picture of the author webapex
    This just has to do with minimizing the opt-out rate that may be more important to the mail service's over all statistics than for you. As long as you are good to your subscribers you will probably end up with more if you don't use double opt-in, you might have a reminder in each email that they can unsubscribe any time they care to in order to reduce the chances of them complaining to their ISP.

    Aweber has confirm turned on by default, you have to uncheck it before starting a campaign or I believe you will be stuck with double opt-in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Seovault
    You will get a higher Conversion without Double Optin and also If you just have the "Email" address slot available but I have been doing "Double Opt In" Collecting Name & Email that takes them to a thank you page instructing to confirm their email.

    Why?

    Simple the lead is already qualified as a desperate buyer! anyone who double opt ins, is extremely desperate, think about it
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  • Profile picture of the author seonutshell
    On for sure. You know they are actually looking for what you have to offer rather than someone who isn't really that fussed, who would be a waste of money for you
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  • Profile picture of the author ViralMediaBoost
    If you hit a high # of spam's yeah you can eventually have the issue of your mails ending up in the junk
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  • Profile picture of the author xohaibx
    Double Optin is the way to go. You should always, always avoid single optin - it just keeps you safe and ensures that the subscribers you are getting are of good quality. If someone joins your email list and doesn't care to check his or her inbox to confirm their subscription - they're not serious enough to be on your list. Period.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinDupre
    This is going to depend niche to niche, traffic source to traffic source.

    What I do is start building lists doing single opt in. I will shoot out a few emails and look at my opt outs and complaints. If they're too high, I'll switch that list to double opt in and test that out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Moneymaker2012
    Double opt in is good. It makes sure the subscriber is serious in seeing what you have to offer, but it depends on niche too. With some niche you should not bother them to double opt in.
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  • Profile picture of the author BennyP
    Thanks for all the replies. I have had double opt in off while i get a few solo ads to kick start my list. I will wait a bit then change it i think.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      This thread may help you, Benny. A careful reading of it will explain to you, in detail, why so many successful members here are using single opt-in, and why most of the "reasons" commonly offered in favor of opt-in comfirmation, in such threads here, are actually fallacious and mistaken: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post8554418

      (There have been probably 20-30 very similar threads, just over the last year or so, but that one's a starting-point, anyway ).
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    • Profile picture of the author malcsimm
      The perennial question!

      As others have said – it depends.

      It is true – why clutter up your list with people who have given new false email addresses – or who never read your emails? But then you can deal with that by deleting all those who haven't opened a single email for six months.

      The thing with single opt in is that you have to watch your unsubscribe and your spam complaint rates.

      If these go too high your email service will complain to you big time.

      Apart from that, you really need to test and see what makes you most money.

      Unless you are with Aweber when you will usually be hooked in to double opt in anyway.

      If you have the option, then test single and double and see what works best for you.

      Malc
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by malcsimm View Post

        Unless you are with Aweber when you will usually be hooked in to double opt in anyway.
        This isn't so at all, Malc - sorry. Far from it.

        Most Aweber lists to which I subscribe are single opt-in, and I have many single opt-in lists there, myself. That's just anecdotal evidence, though - it proves nothing. But here's the point: Aweber, like most good, professional autoresponder services, offers their users the choice between single and confirmed opt-in. As Aweber themselves will tell you if you discuss it with them, the only Aweber users not able to use single opt-in are a small minority who have caused Aweber problems in the past over spam complaints and had the single opt-in facility withdrawn at "account level" so that it no longer appears as an option for them at "list level".
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        • Profile picture of the author malcsimm
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          This isn't so at all, Malc - sorry. Far from it.

          Most Aweber lists to which I subscribe are single opt-in, and I have many single opt-in lists there, myself. That's just anecdotal evidence, though - it proves nothing.
          When I was with Aweber, that was only for older accounts, Alexa.

          Unless things have changed, Aweber only let new signups have double optin.

          If it's changed now for new users I'd be interested to know.

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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by malcsimm View Post

            Unless things have changes, Aweber only let new signups have double optin.
            Thanks, Malc - I've never heard that before. If it was so, it was before my time (2008), and has therefore changed a long time ago (I know plenty of people who have joined Aweber since I did, who also use single opt-in, as I now do)!
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  • Profile picture of the author WillMitchell
    The answer to this question depends on the type of traffic that will be exposed to your opt-in form. There is no right or wrong answer, it must be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

    Here are cases where a confirmed opt-in would be best:
    • It's important to make the most of every single subscriber on your e-mail list
    • Your squeeze page will be exposed to low-quality traffic
    • Your readers are tech savvy enough to understand how to confirm their subscription

    Conversely, here are some examples in which a single opt-in might yield a higher ROI:
    • Your e-mail list is very good at converting low-quality leads; more opt-ins of any quality is always a good thing
    • You aren't using a lead-gen, thus there is a weak incentive for new subscribers to immediately confirm
    • Your target audience doesn't subscribe to very many lists, so they may find a double opt-in frustrating

    As I'm sure you know, a confirmed opt-in is usually the safest choice because you're guaranteed to maintain a certain quality-level for your subscribers. The ones that will confirm their subscription are the same ones that will later convert into customers.

    - Will
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by WillMitchell View Post

      As I'm sure you know, a confirmed opt-in is usually the safest choice because you're guaranteed to maintain a certain quality-level for your subscribers. The ones that will confirm their subscription are the same ones that will later convert into customers.
      That's a popular view among people who haven't done both and compared accurately over an extended period, Will. People who test it for themselves seem to end up believing the opposite. And there are reasons for that.

      In a whole range of niches, as far as I could tell, I never found any specific correlation whatsoever between those who will confirm and those who later convert into customers. Switching from confirmed opt-in to single opt-in was just "all gain", for my business - and no downside at all. And there are countless others here, building big businesses, who say exactly the same.

      This specific thread's very unusual, atypical and unrepresentative in that it seems to contain quite a few consecutive posts from members who say they prefer to use opt-in confirmation (though - as ever - some of the "reasons" offered for their views don't actually stand up to examination at all). "Just saying".
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  • Profile picture of the author goozleology
    Always ON. Yes, you'll get more people subscribing without it on but you'll also get more people forgetting that they signed up and, thus, reporting you for spamming them even though they ask for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by goozleology View Post

      you'll also get more people forgetting that they signed up and, thus, reporting you for spamming them even though they ask for it.
      This just isn't so.

      First, the evidence (if you actually check it out for yourself, by testing instead of just repeating what you've seen other people - equally mistakenly - saying) doesn't suggest that at all: whether people report you for spamming for them depends on what you send them, not on whether you asked them to confirm their email address at the time they originally opted in.

      Secondly, it you think about it, it doesn't actually stand up to examination at all: surely you can't seriously imagine that people who are likely to "report" you for spamming them are actually going to remember whether they confirmed their email address on opt-in, maybe weeks/months earlier and (even if they do remember) whether that's going to make the slightest difference to them?! Your assertion doesn't really make too much sense, does it?

      (By the way, guys: call me pedantic, but there's no such thing as "double" opt-in. Nobody has to opt in twice! It's actually called "confirmed opt-in", if they have to confirm their email address in order to be added to the list. "Just saying" ).
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  • Profile picture of the author pilaruk
    If you dont´s have double optin you may end up with lot of fake signups.
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  • Profile picture of the author zimzalabim
    Personally, (and it just a personal preference, I guess there's no right or wrong answer.....) always double op-in. As Pilar says - less chance of fakes and by using double opt-in I know that (I think) the person wants to at least get the freebie or whatever else I'm offering up even if they instantly unsub after getting it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lokahi
    If you are an affiliate with some companies, they will require you to use double opt in. But if you are representing your own products or site, then you can safely use single opt in. Some people say spam complaints from this is higher, but only if someone is entering random email addresses into the box. And, what are the chances?
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Luck
    I used to do single optin for several years.

    Then, one day (less than a year ago) I tested a page with confirmed opt in and I'll never look back.

    The list is much higher quality.

    The list is much more responsive.

    The open rate exceed 75%

    The click rate exceeds 40%

    And, instead of having hundreds of thousands of subscribers from single optin and paying for the volume with an AR service... you pay for a fraction of that.

    Give confirmed opt in a shot, you'll never look back. I promise.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lokahi
      Originally Posted by Chris Luck View Post

      I used to do single optin for several years.

      Then, one day (less than a year ago) I tested a page with confirmed opt in and I'll never look back.

      The list is much higher quality.

      The list is much more responsive.

      The open rate exceed 75%

      The click rate exceeds 40%

      And, instead of having hundreds of thousands of subscribers from single optin and paying for the volume with an AR service... you pay for a fraction of that.

      Give confirmed opt in a shot, you'll never look back. I promise.
      Thanks for this feedback. It helps to know what experience others are having with double opt ins. And, I think many people won't do double opt ins as they see it as a barrier between themselves and the person signing up. But really that person is more willing to hear what you have to say if they took the trouble to actually click on the link in the double opt in email.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Lokahi View Post

        But really that person is more willing to hear what you have to say if they took the trouble to actually click on the link in the double opt in email.
        That person, who's willing to hear what you have to say, will still be there if you use single opt-in, too. The process of asking him to confirm his email address doesn't suddenly, magically change him into a different person. Your logic is flawed. You can gain (additional subscribers) by using single opt-in. You can't lose anyone: all those "good, attentive, responsive" people will still be there, too.
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Lengley
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          That person, who's willing to hear what you have to say, will still be there if you use single opt-in, too. The process of asking him to confirm his email address doesn't suddenly, magically change him into a different person. Your logic is flawed. You can gain (additional subscribers) by using single opt-in. You can't lose anyone: all those "good, attentive, responsive" people will still be there.
          I just have a question, single opt-in is, without any doubt, better than confirmed opt-in. But, sometimes I feel, after watching the results, that Gmail, Yahoo etc. send your many emails into the spam box if you follow the single opt-in route.

          On the other hand, if you compel your visitors for confirmed opt-in, most of your emails land straightly into the inbox.

          I'm not sure; my assessment can be wrong; just this issue sometimes baffles me. Is it true?
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Chris Lengley View Post

            I'm not sure; my assessment can be wrong; just this issue sometimes baffles me. Is it true?
            It depends which autoresponder service you use. Some do send out single opt-in and confirmed opt-in mails from different servers, so it's possible they could have different delivery-rates. But if you educate your subscribers correctly on the thank you page (when they opt in), and in the free report you give them, and in the first email you send them (with the download link), none of this should matter anyway, because they should all white-list your email address and have no difficulty receiving them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Chris Lengley
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              But if you educate your subscribers correctly on the thank you page (when they opt in), and in the free report you give them, and in the first email you send them (with the download link), none of this should matter anyway, because they should all white-list your email address and have no difficulty receiving them.
              Thank you so much. I was missing this part I guess. Thank you again.
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    • Profile picture of the author malcsimm
      Originally Posted by Chris Luck View Post

      I used to do single optin for several years.

      Then, one day (less than a year ago) I tested a page with confirmed opt in and I'll never look back.

      The list is much higher quality.

      The list is much more responsive.

      The open rate exceed 75%

      The click rate exceeds 40%

      And, instead of having hundreds of thousands of subscribers from single optin and paying for the volume with an AR service... you pay for a fraction of that.

      Give confirmed opt in a shot, you'll never look back. I promise.
      Good point about some of the benefits of using confirmed opt in, Chris.

      However, I doubt your open rate of 75% is going to persist all that long! Unless you are using some sort of magic LOL

      The problem you mention of your list getting ever bigger and bigger if you use single opt in there is another way to deal with this problem which is well worth mentioning.

      And that is, deleting all your users who don't open or click in an email in, say, six months.

      This method will unfortunately delete a small number of people who are opening or clicking but are not being detected. But it will get rid of most of the time wasters and keep your list size down.

      If you use Office Autopilot you can do this using what they call an "active re-engagement" sequence on autopilot.

      It's going to be harder to do this with other auto responder services but I still thought it was worth a mention.

      Cheers, Malc
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    • Profile picture of the author BennyP
      Originally Posted by Chris Luck View Post

      I used to do single optin for several years.

      Then, one day (less than a year ago) I tested a page with confirmed opt in and I'll never look back.

      The list is much higher quality.

      The list is much more responsive.

      The open rate exceed 75%

      The click rate exceeds 40%

      And, instead of having hundreds of thousands of subscribers from single optin and paying for the volume with an AR service... you pay for a fraction of that.

      Give confirmed opt in a shot, you'll never look back. I promise.
      Thanks for that! This thread is doing my head in haha
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  • Profile picture of the author fated82
    I will on it. I think for one, it's to make sure they know they have sign up for your list and for two, you want legitimate subscribers in your list.

    Also, those people who sign up to your list will be less likely to report spam. I believe that if you there are too many spam reports in your account, you will get ban from your autoresponders.
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  • Profile picture of the author smplylvn
    I mostly tend to go with single opt-in but it really depends on where I am getting the traffic and what the offer is. I think that you probably have a better quality subscriber when they take the time to confirm, but I think you loose a lot of quality people too. People are in a hurry, always on the go and have so much going on that many just will not take the time to confirm. So I go with single opt-in and I provide as much value as I possible can.
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  • Profile picture of the author EPoltrack77
    No your email won't end up in peoples spam folder as long as your spam score is low. I like mine at 0. Certain times you want to use double opt in but other times you may not. If you shut off your double opt in and you spam the living daylights out of your list with bad subject lines and offers and your complaint rate goes up you could have a problem but... Theres got to be a first time for everything right. All about testing. When you get good at creating a funnel that converts well all the way through then sure by leaving the double opt in on you are going to get much, much, much more quality traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I believe that the best option is single opt-in with a free ebook in the first message, which will surely make the subscriber read your words. If the free ebook is good, the subscriber will care about your messages.

    However, there is a negative side in this practice, as many others have already said. You may have a huge list of freebie seekers who are not interested on your offers (even if the free ebook is very good) because they don't have money.

    Nothing is perfect.






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  • Profile picture of the author illiptic
    Depends.

    If you are using aweber and are getting tons of leads, having it on might be a good idea, because after about 4 spam complaints in a day, aweber will start complaining and sending you emails/warnings
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    • Profile picture of the author malcsimm
      Originally Posted by illiptic View Post

      Depends.

      If you are using aweber and are getting tons of leads, having it on might be a good idea, because after about 4 spam complaints in a day, aweber will start complaining and sending you emails/warnings
      That's true.

      Another point about single opt in is that around 15 to 20% of people are estimated to either put in garbage email addresses or mistype them.

      Filling your list up with non-functional email addresses firstly costs you money that you are paying to your provider, and secondly your relatively low delivery rate gets you - personally - a black mark with ISPs, lowering your delivery rate. In America 18% of mail is either classified as spam or is withheld by the ISPs. In the UK it's 16%, the latest figures.

      If you have low delivery rates through having bad email addresses you are much more likely to be within this percentage.

      Malc
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        Originally Posted by malcsimm View Post

        That's true.
        Another point about single opt in is that around 15 to 20% of people are estimated to either put in garbage email addresses or mistype them.
        How would a single opt-in setting be a factor in a person mistyping an email in contrast to a person mistyping with double opt-in setting? It has equal chance of occuring and it has the same result. A void email.

        If you make it clear is to whatever they are opting into is to recieve something by email, why would they enter a garbage email?
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  • Profile picture of the author sixbladeknife
    I personally know a few of the 'big dogs' in internet marketing, and most of them are huge proponents of single opt in.

    There are good arguments in this thread in favor and against single optin, but no matter what, you WILL lose legitimate subscribers in a double optin process.

    Any time you make something harder to do, you will get fewer people willing or able to complete that process.

    Will double optin get you a higher quality, more responsive list. Likely so. It is worth losing a bunch of legit subscribers. No.

    The important thing is to let the subscriber know exactly what you will be sending them and sending value added, aligned content. You won't have problems with complaints if you do that.
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