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How do you test your info product first?

by elmo033057
29 replies
Over the years, I've taken several information marketing courses that I thought were well put together. However, there have always been questions about how certain aspects of a business like that this supposed to work. For example, the first thing that they tell you to do is to not create the product first. What they tell you to do is write the advertisement first and then worry about developing the information product. The problem I have with this is how are you supposed to know whether or not your product is something that people would want to begin with? The information marketing courses never talk about what you have to do first, which is find out what your market is. Not only that, but they recommend that you look in the standard rate and data service to do some marketing analysis. However, as I have stated on this form several times, the standard rate and data service books are not available to everybody. I have looked at many libraries and also online to see if somebody had a copy of it in their library and could find none in my area. But that does not really answer my question. How do you know for sure if you are creating a product in a niche that will actually sell? It would seem to me that this is the most important step you would need to make for even thought about making an information product.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from somebody who has used this strategy this and has actually done it. Well, not actually just done it, but somebody who is actually made some good money from doing all the work up front that needs to be done.

Thank you in advance for your answers.

God bless,
"
#info #product
  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    Here's one way to determine if a particular product will sell . . . get on relevant forums, see what problems most people want solved in that niche, and create a product which solves those problems. If people in that niche are not talking about problems, then ask them what is their most significant problem in that niche, then make a product which solves it, and sell it to them . . . you can even sell it directly back to the same forums where you learned about the problems, using a signature, advertising on that forum or whatever.

    Hope that helps

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author xohaibx
      Originally Posted by Chris- View Post

      Here's one way to determine if a particular product will sell . . . get on relevant forums, see what problems most people want solved in that niche, and create a product which solves those problems. If people in that niche are not talking about problems, then ask them what is their most significant problem in that niche, then make a product which solves it, and sell it to them . . .
      I totally agree with Chris. Creating a product that sells starts with knowing your target audience and what problems they're facing. Talking to your audience and building an info product that they WANT is probably the easiest way to make your product successful.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by Chris- View Post

      Here's one way to determine if a particular product will sell . . . get on relevant forums, see what problems most people want solved in that niche, and create a product which solves those problems. If people in that niche are not talking about problems, then ask them what is their most significant problem in that niche, then make a product which solves it, and sell it to them . . . you can even sell it directly back to the same forums where you learned about the problems, using a signature, advertising on that forum or whatever.

      Hope that helps

      Chris
      This is almost always a complete waste of time.

      You can sit on forums all day long noting down what peoples needs, wants and frustrations are - that doesn't mean they'll get their wallets out.

      There's a MASSIVE difference between telling you what they want, as opposed to PAYING you for it.

      In simple terms, what you're asking comes down to risk management. It has nothing to do with "Do they want this thing or not?".

      So what you're really asking is "How can I prevent f*ing up, and potentially wasting time and money on a product that flops?". I've been doing this a very long time and here's my thoughts.

      1. There are no guarantees in business. Accept risk., Some are winners, some are losers.

      2. Get paid first. If you're not getting paid in advance, then you're already positioning yourself for loss. By getting paid first, you should have 50 people PAY you $197 for that "thing" ..because it's so awesome BEFORE you even put it together.

      3. Forget surveys. Everyone says "Survey your list, ask them what keeps them awake at night." BULLSHIT. Sure, ask them what keeps them awake at night, then ask them to PAY you for it. THEN build it.

      4. Ask your list, you have a list right? I hope you have an email list. That makes everything so much easier.

      5. Sell, then refund. Bit dodgy but works. This method involves putting up a sales page with a buy button on it, and waiting for the orders to come in. When they do, you refund and apologise. "Sorry, this product isnt available right now". This way you know people are getting their wallets out. I don't do this anymore because I think it stinks, but it *can* work.

      6. Sell what's already selling. Pretty obvious really. If 500 websites are already selling it, and they're spending money on PAID advertising, then it should be a no brainer.

      7. Make profits before you even begin. Never work for free. Get paid first and then start work.

      8. MOVE FAST. Fail quickly. Don't F around building something that takes you 6 months. Put something together (MVP mininum viable product) in 3 weeks and start selling. Everyone sits around draping tinsle and glitter over dog turds that don't sell. Dont do that. Get in, get it done and see if the damn thing sells. You can afford to fail in 3 weeks, but not if the product takes 2 years to put together.
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      • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
        Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

        This is almost always a complete waste of time.

        You can sit on forums all day long noting down what peoples needs, wants and frustrations are - that doesn't mean they'll get their wallets out.

        There's a MASSIVE difference between telling you what they want, as opposed to PAYING you for it.

        In simple terms, what you're asking comes down to risk management. It has nothing to do with "Do they want this thing or not?".

        So what you're really asking is "How can I prevent f*ing up, and potentially wasting time and money on a product that flops?". I've been doing this a very long time and here's my thoughts.

        1. There are no guarantees in business. Accept risk., Some are winners, some are losers.

        2. Get paid first. If you're not getting paid in advance, then you're already positioning yourself for loss. By getting paid first, you should have 50 people PAY you $197 for that "thing" ..because it's so awesome BEFORE you even put it together.

        3. Forget surveys. Everyone says "Survey your list, ask them what keeps them awake at night." BULLSHIT. Sure, ask them what keeps them awake at night, then ask them to PAY you for it. THEN build it.

        4. Ask your list, you have a list right? I hope you have an email list. That makes everything so much easier.

        5. Sell, then refund. Bit dodgy but works. This method involves putting up a sales page with a buy button on it, and waiting for the orders to come in. When they do, you refund and apologise. "Sorry, this product isnt available right now". This way you know people are getting their wallets out. I don't do this anymore because I think it stinks, but it *can* work.

        6. Sell what's already selling. Pretty obvious really. If 500 websites are already selling it, and they're spending money on PAID advertising, then it should be a no brainer.

        7. Make profits before you even begin. Never work for free. Get paid first and then start work.

        8. MOVE FAST. Fail quickly. Don't F around building something that takes you 6 months. Put something together (MVP mininum viable product) in 3 weeks and start selling. Everyone sits around draping tinsle and glitter over dog turds that don't sell. Dont do that. Get in, get it done and see if the damn thing sells. You can afford to fail in 3 weeks, but not if the product takes 2 years to put together.
        John,

        Wow, you could almost make an information product out of the posting you just put up! The only part of your response that I will have a problem with is having an e-mail list. Since I don't have a product or a niche yet, I don't have a mailing list for it. Would this be a mailing list that you buy or build yourself? If your supposed to buy it, where would I get one from? I used to have an AWeber account, but I wasn't using it enough, and it took a very long time to get anybody to sign up to the websites that I built, so I decided to discontinue using it.

        Is there another way to build an e-mail list without an auto responder? Your seventh point has been a little confused because I do not understand how you can make a profit before you even start. But all of your other points I understood and they were very powerful.

        I really do appreciate a seasoned entrepreneur explaining a few things to me, so thank you very much.

        God bless and thanks again

        Mark "Elmo" Ellis
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        "When It Comes To High Response Copy - I've Got Your Back!"
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        • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
          Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

          Would this be a mailing list that you buy or build yourself?
          No, you earn your list.

          Stop trying to take "short cuts".

          Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

          it took a very long time to get anybody to sign up to the websites that I built, so I decided to discontinue using it.
          Aha.

          You just gave yourself away by saying "websites". Let me guess, you had websites all over the place, all with their own optins, and lists. I bet it became unmanageable, yes?

          Build one site, build it well.

          Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

          I do not understand how you can make a profit before you even start.
          You make a profit by having people pay you first, BEFORE you even put the product together.
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          • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
            Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

            No, you earn your list.

            Stop trying to take "short cuts".



            Aha.

            You just gave yourself away by saying "websites". Let me guess, you had websites all over the place, all with their own optins, and lists. I bet it became unmanageable, yes?

            Build one site, build it well.



            You make a profit by having people pay you first, BEFORE you even put the product together.
            John,

            I don't think I have been taking shortcuts with online businesses that I have started. For five years I had an online embroidery business that I had built an e-commerce site for. My niche market was music related themes targeted to specific instruments. For example, I had all sorts of trombone hats and shirts and different types of combinations of apparel sets. My big seller was a trombone hat and shirt that went together and it was called my "bad to the bone" set. I sold these items all over the world. As a matter of fact, there was a group of guys in Holland that had started a club and a group to play them so they could wear my stuff. I even had people in Japan purchase my items. All of the designs were digitized by software by myself and I did all of the sewing out on a single head machine that I operated out of my basement. I created the website, with all the e-commerce and credit card functions and I also did all of the marketing for the business. However, as you can probably guess, I got really burned out after five years and I sold my business.

            My next venture into Internet marketing was building a site that specifically targeted AdSense revenue. This site was built on the niche of electric bicycles and over the years I have made about $15,000 off of a site that I don't really even maintain anymore. However, I got burned out on that site as well because I was writing about electric bicycles all the time and when Google switched its logarithm I went from making $400 a month to about $100 a month on that one site. However, I had a blog which I wrote regularly as well as an e-mail newsletter, but most of the people that signed up for anything to do with e-mail were Oriental people that were trying to sell me their wares in the electric bike market. So, once again e-mail was not a big deal for me.

            I have also tried one other site, where I built a forum for Photoshop tutorial videos I have made. However, that is such a hard site to maintain because of all the spamming that goes on that I have pretty much ignored that site.

            So, those are the three big sites that I have done. I don't think that I am overdoing it. I must tell you though that I worked for a millionaire that lives just north of where I live at and he needed someone to maintain his websites for him, so I thought it would be a good opportunity to watch an Internet millionaire and action. He had over 100 websites! He was the most disorganized man I have ever seen and yet he was the most successful person I ever had a chance to work with! Go figure! His niche was multilevel marketing information products and they were some of the junkiest things I've ever seen, but he was charging big bucks for them.

            Anyway, I don't think I've been spread out too much, but I would like to do something different and actually make some decent money at one of these ventures. I will tell you that it is not easy for everyone and that you really have to work hard at any business that you start, otherwise you are fooling yourself. I really do appreciate the time you took to try to steer me in the right direction and I am taking your message to heart. Thank you so much.

            God bless,

            Mark "Elmo" Ellis
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            "When It Comes To High Response Copy - I've Got Your Back!"
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      • Profile picture of the author IanGreenwood
        Some products fly, some flop. There is no sure fire 100% guaranteed way to know which is which. Even products that flop can be made to fly by re-titling, re-packaging or reworking into another form.

        Markets dictate which products will be successful. Not sellers.

        Big mass markets = good ground even for weak products. Small "niche" markets = poor ground for any product. By this I mean, if only 2.5% of a market wants your product at any one time then 2.5% of the diet market means you'll have a winner. 2.5% of the Ice Climbing market means you'll only get a few sales.

        It's hard to say it, but the only way to ensure a success is to give the people what they want. People want "quick" and they want "easy", and sometimes they want "cheap" but most of all they want hope!

        If you're selling hope, then you'll have a winner every time!
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  • Profile picture of the author lhic
    Your first step with any information product is doing a little research to find out if there are any other products out there selling in the same market. Currently successful info-products are cold hard evidence that info-products sell in that market space.

    Buy those products, study their funnel, go through their product. Read reviews about their product and note all the things people consistently say they left out.

    Research information on the gaps in their product, then craft a quick salesletter with bulletpoints based around best parts of their products, and the info you found on the parts they skipped.

    Put it up, and where the buy button should be put a opt-in that says "This product is currently closed, get on the notification list to be notified when it reopens".

    Then drive traffic to that page. If you get a solid 20% opt-in rate or better on that page, you have a strong indication that you have a winner.
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  • Profile picture of the author fated82
    Chris nailed it.

    I was about to say that but yes, it's the same as what i intended to say.

    You can search forums, linkedin (group discussions) and blogs to find what people are talking about. What their fears are or what their problems may be.

    Also, your first few products should aim at solving one problem. Be specific. The common mistake is to create a full fledge product trying to solve too many problems at once.
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  • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
    Chris, Mustafa, Ihic, & Fated,
    Thanks so much for you great help on this. It definitely makes sense and I will have to take this all into consideration. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond.

    God Bless!
    ELMO
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    Mark "Elmo" Ellis
    "When It Comes To High Response Copy - I've Got Your Back!"
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  • Profile picture of the author lhic
    You are very welcome. All the best with your product.
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    Want to know if you're entering a niche that is profitable?

    See if there are currently others in that niche that are selling well?

    Seriously... if you "think" of a great niche, and there's not a single seller... I'd be careful. It could be that no one's buying.

    But, if you're entering a niche that there are several top-selling products... your job is to be different/unique/better.

    In other words, build a better mousetrap.

    One thing I used to do in the past, before I learned a few niche-finding shortcuts,
    is I'd actually run some Google ads, send them to an affiliate program that was as close to the product I was thinking of making.

    Sure, this wasn't a sure-fire way... but it was a way to see if there was any action on the keywords and ads. If so, it was a possible niche to enter.

    I almost never made an affiliate sale... since the product usually wasn't exactly what I was testing in terms of keywords... but it at least gave me some market info.

    This was way back though, before google had a ton of quality factors... where you could literally put up any ad for a nickel.

    But over the last 13 years... I've come to find a bit of a shortcut when it comes to finding out if something "should" sell.

    Before I enter a market and create a product… I'll ask myself...

    1. Does it solve a problem or ease a frustration?
    2. Is there are large enough group of people actively looking for a solution?
    3. Are these people easily reached?
    4. Are there already products selling well?
    5. Can I find a new and better hook?
    6. Is there built-in repeat business potential
    7 Is there a way to offer complimentary products

    If I can answer “Yes” to all of these, it’s a good market and there's no reason why you can't develop a product that will sell.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Analyze the best sellers at Amazon, Clickbank, eBay, etc. and create similar products, or promote affiliate products that are selling.

    It’s better to promote a product related to the one you want to create (a complementation, not the same product from one of your competitors) as an affiliate, and build your email list.

    For example, you want to write an ebook about information marketing, therefore you can promote an ebook about how to be a good writer to your email list, and this way, you will have a list to promote your own product when you will create it, besides being able to ask your subscribers what kind of product they would like to buy about this matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
    Shawn and Clever7,

    Thanks ever so much for these great words of info-product wisdom! I will definitely put them on my playlist for the future!

    God Bless, My friends!
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    Mark "Elmo" Ellis
    "When It Comes To High Response Copy - I've Got Your Back!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Elmo,

      I'm not sure who you've been listening to or who "they" are in your post, but I've never used the SRDS in niche research. I have always thought that SRDS was a large cataloging system to bring together media sellers and media buyers - not the type of information that's going to help you much to research an online niche.

      Every resource you need to do effective research is found online right from your desktop (or laptop).

      It can be a dangerous thing to get in the habit of taking advice from "them," whoever that might be.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        Elmo,

        I'm not sure who you've been listening to or who "they" are in your post, but I've never used the SRDS in niche research. I have always thought that SRDS was a large cataloging system to bring together media sellers and media buyers - not the type of information that's going to help you much to research an online niche.

        Every resource you need to do effective research is found online right from your desktop (or laptop).

        It can be a dangerous thing to get in the habit of taking advice from "them," whoever that might be.

        Steve
        Steve,

        Thanks so much for your response. I have several recordings By Dan Kennedy Seminars featuring Ron Legrand. (By the way he is selling a new real estate course all of the radio, lately). Anyway, all of the information product seminars and books I bought from Glazer / Kennedy recommend using the SRDS. I personally have never seen a copy of the SRDS, so I don't know what they are talking about. I know that the SRDS has a website and a subscription which is extremely expensive and unless I was making really good money doing this, I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money. The Kennedy seminars also tell you that you can go down to the library and use the SRDS but I've been to about 15 different libraries and none of them have copies of it. I guess I'm just in the wrong part of the country, however Dan Kennedy was in Ohio and I live in Kentucky so go figure. From the description that I have heard on the seminars, you can just about tell exactly what products are selling the most and what areas. However, since I have never seen a copy or even a copy of a page of the SRDS, I really don't know exactly what they're talking about.

        Thank you so much for taking the time to post on the forum. I am always looking for experienced entrepreneurs to point me in the right direction.

        God bless,

        Mark "Elmo" Ellis
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        "When It Comes To High Response Copy - I've Got Your Back!"
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  • Profile picture of the author lotsofsnow
    Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

    For example, the first thing that they tell you to do is to not create the product first. What they tell you to do is write the advertisement first and then worry about developing the information product. The problem I have with this is how are you supposed to know whether or not your product is something that people would want to begin with?
    Well, you should do some research first.

    Ideally you would do surveys. Ask about 100 people n your target market what their problems are and then create a product to solve the problems.

    BUT

    Creating an information product is so easy and so fast that the most practical way to go about it is to simply create a product and sell it. If it sells it's obviously wanted and you keep doing it. If it does not sell: next.

    Another thing: familiarity.
    I can tell you without much research what information product would sell like hot cakes here on the warriorforum.

    Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

    How do you know for sure if you are creating a product in a niche that will actually sell? It would seem to me that this is the most important step you would need to make for even thought about making an information product.
    If you are familiar with the market and the people in it and can do a little research you can be almost certain that a product will sell.
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  • Profile picture of the author ppetri
    Your intuition is correct. Know your industry first… Find out which niches in your industry are starving for information/help. If you see enough people asking the same questions, then you may be on to something. Make sure you have the knowledge to answer the questions your industry is asking about. If you don’t have the answers to fix their frustrations, nobody will buy what you’re selling. Next step is to check and see if the market is congested with competition. If the number seems adequate then move into production. Never create a product then see if the market has room for it!

    One way of learning your market is by examining how many people per month are asking the same things “keyword phrases” online each month (it’s called the Google Keyword Planner). The more searches the more popular the subject. Be sure to review more Warrior posts on “keyword research” and “competitive analysis or competitive analysis research”

    Here is a great beginner’s guide to get you started. How To Do Keyword Research - The Beginners Guide to SEO - Moz

    You can’t get the free Google keyword tool anymore (please correct me if I’m wrong) you’ll need to get an Adwords account in order to do research with the keyword planner I mentioned above. Click https://adwords.google.com/keywordtool for more information!


    Hope this helps you. Much luck - Pete
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    • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
      Originally Posted by ppetri View Post

      Your intuition is correct. Know your industry first... Find out which niches in your industry are starving for information/help. If you see enough people asking the same questions, then you may be on to something. Make sure you have the knowledge to answer the questions your industry is asking about. If you don't have the answers to fix their frustrations, nobody will buy what you're selling. Next step is to check and see if the market is congested with competition. If the number seems adequate then move into production. Never create a product then see if the market has room for it!

      One way of learning your market is by examining how many people per month are asking the same things "keyword phrases" online each month (it's called the Google Keyword Planner). The more searches the more popular the subject. Be sure to review more Warrior posts on "keyword research" and "competitive analysis or competitive analysis research"

      Here is a great beginner's guide to get you started. How To Do Keyword Research - The Beginners Guide to SEO - Moz

      You can't get the free Google keyword tool anymore (please correct me if I'm wrong) you'll need to get an Adwords account in order to do research with the keyword planner I mentioned above. Click https://adwords.google.com/keywordtool for more information!


      Hope this helps you. Much luck - Pete
      Pete,

      Thank you so much for taking the time to explain those things to me. I went to the website that you gave me the link to and I have already downloaded the e-book that talks about keyword research. I will definitely make you read of it very soon to see if I can figure out which direction I can head in or to see if any of my ideas will actually work. Once again thank you so much for all your help.

      God bless,
      Mark "Elmo" Ellis
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris-
    I agree with some of the points by John, and others. There is indeed a difference between what people think they want and what they are actually willing to pay for. If you can make a system where you determine interest first, or get paid first, that's a very good idea of course.

    Also, the method you sell, can make the biggest difference of all. I did a course some years ago, on making and selling info-products. I followed the course (I ended up being the one used by the seller as the example of "how to do it right" on the forum), and made 1 single sale in 2 years. I learned some things about IM courses by doing that one, for example, when you click the links that the seller guarantees that they "use every single day" to make an exact number of dollars, then find the site they list has been down for 3 years, you start to see what is really going on No problem . . . I learned a lot from that course and it was worth it.

    Then I put the exact same product on JVZoo with PLR rights, and now sell one every week or two. So a free selling method that you spend 1 minute on and never look at again can work hundreds of times better than a custom-designed website with many give-away videos, Squeeze-page, mailing-list, auto-responder, weeks of boring backlinking, etc.

    So, there are a LOT of variables in selling info products, and the more of those variables you can test, the more you will learn and earn

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

    Over the years, I've taken several information marketing courses that I thought were well put together. However, there have always been questions about how certain aspects of a business like that this supposed to work. For example, the first thing that they tell you to do is to not create the product first. What they tell you to do is write the advertisement first and then worry about developing the information product.

    The problem I have with this is how are you supposed to know whether or not your product is something that people would want to begin with? The information marketing courses never talk about what you have to do first, which is find out what your market is. Not only that, but they recommend that you look in the standard rate and data service to do some marketing analysis.

    However, as I have stated on this form several times, the standard rate and data service books are not available to everybody. I have looked at many libraries and also online to see if somebody had a copy of it in their library and could find none in my area. But that does not really answer my question. How do you know for sure if you are creating a product in a niche that will actually sell? It would seem to me that this is the most important step you would need to make for even thought about making an information product.

    Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from somebody who has used this strategy this and has actually done it. Well, not actually just done it, but somebody who is actually made some good money from doing all the work up front that needs to be done.

    Thank you in advance for your answers.

    God bless,
    "
    I've never bought a scrap of information on how to create an info product to market online. I have, however, suggested to people that they might create both a better product and/or sales page by writing the copy first.

    In fewer than 10 minutes a savvy marketer could survey the first two or three pages of this (main) forum and should be able to come up with a half dozen ideas for products simply by making notes on what people are asking.

    Then the savvy marketer could head to the WSO and other paid advertising forums and actually get confirmation on whether the first ideas were good ones or not.

    You say the courses on product creation never talk about what you have to do first, which is find out what your market is. I find that hard to believe. I've got books on how to research book topics (the second oldest info product known to civilization) and the first thing they mention is to identify a market and write your book for that market.

    Man, you are making things way more complicated than they are. Rate and data services? Are you kidding? I mentioned above what I would do to research a product's viability for Warrior Forum. What are people coming here every day asking about? How to choose a niche is near the top of the list. Another is solo ads. Another thing is getting traffic. This ain't rocket science.

    But WF is a relatively small and a somewhat unique marketplace. So what do you do in the wide open spaces of the world at large? The same thing. Only difference is you won't have neat little compartments like the main forum here and the WSO and other sales oriented forums. So what do you do?

    Monitor the news. Current events often reflect people's interests. Gun control, same sex marriage, health care, prepping for doomsday, making ends meet, chemicals in food, dopey liars in our government. There are millions and millions of books (info products) sold on this stuff every day.

    Check out all the nonfiction bestseller lists. How many books do you think you'll find on home based businesses? How about home based businesses for moms, for baby boomers? Extend and confirm that you've got a viable product idea by searching for forums on the various topics. I'm not a big fan of endless obsessive keyword research but it does have its place. Do searches for a half dozen popular keywords on a topic. If you see a half dozen or more Adsense ads for a topic, someone is making money.

    People only want three things in life. Everything falls under these three broad categories:

    ~> Health
    ~> Love, Relationships
    ~> Money

    The rest is easy. Identify a topic/market/niche and check it out. Are there people with problems, needs, issues they need solved? Does your product solve their need? Can people afford it and can you deliver it with a smile? That's it. Stop making it harder than it is. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author adelewilliams
    Banned
    If you want to sell a product, a good marketing strategy does the entire work. Most marketing strategies follow the exact range of the following questions:
    1. What?
    2. How?
    3.Why?
    An example may sound like: "I make great products, it has attractive features and it is user friendly, want to buy one?"
    And then you expect some sort of buying behavior, but it actually is uninspiring. But if you reverse these 3 questions, here is how the message would sound like: "Everything I create I believe it will challenge your thoughts and I believe in thinking differently. The way I am challenging your mind is by making my products with great features. I just happen to make great products. Want to buy one?"
    The secret is that clients do not buy what you do, they buy why you do, they buy your beliefs.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
    SRDS used to be a pretty good research tool - you could get a very good sense of the offline magazine, report and periodical niches with subscription rates and advertising rates (very similar to how you can use Google Adwords to "test" how much online advertising dollars are tied to a set of keywords)

    In the best scenario, this was a decent way to find new "hidden" niches offline and make initial judgements about offline $$ being spent to get a sense for how commercially viable the niche was.

    For online, there are so many other ways you can research and then test markets. Some good tips for research have already been shared, but you asked specifically about testing so I'll give you some practical tips we have used across our various infoproduct businesses.

    1. We often test sites by launching a content site - nothing major, a blog or a 5-10 page html site to start optimized around a few of the keyword combinations we want to test...then we offer content + action (opt-in to a free report, e-course, video series, etc...). This gives us a good sense of which of the 5-10 sub-niches we test are getting the best results as well as allowing us to refine the messaging, traffic sources and offer

    2. Next - we will market similar affiliate products to these customers (if available) to test conversion. This is an inexact science, but has worked well for us over the years to indicate broad patterns of higher commercial value

    3. Quick Info Products - I really like these...once we get a sense for a hot sub-niche, I put together a 5-20 page report or quick video series to test the market - within days you can have your lead-in product ready to go and earning some early cash while testing your market

    4. Training programs...another way we have entered two different niches is with a "beta" paid training program where we work with a closed circle of 5-10 people who pay an introductory "beta" fee and you help them through your program, developing as you go as well as improving the product, refining the message as you go. This is a great system that brings in niche up-front cash, builds your high-end product as you go and develops early champions that can help you launch your product when it is ready to go mass.

    Jeff
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    Turn Your Knowledge Into High-Paying Digital Products To Sell Online
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  • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
    Travlinguy

    "Rate and data services? Are you kidding?"

    Travlin Guy,

    I have read a ton of books on the subject of information marketing, but they all referred to the S RDS as being the Bible of locating a market. As a matter fact Dan Kennedy's latest book on information marketing talks about the S RDS as if it was the holy Grail of information product research. Not only does he talk about it extensively in his book, but Gary Halbert's books have the S RDS listed all through them. As a matter of fact here's a direct link to a page where Gary Halbert talks about it. The Gary Halbert Letter, Exact Name Mailing List Here is the quote from that page:


    There are two primary sources that have info on these types of lists. The first is the Standard Rate & Data (SRDS) List Book. This is a huge book containing a description of literally thousands of different mailing lists. Your library should have it (ask for SRDS Direct Mail Lists Rates and Data) and, if they don't, you can call SRDS direct at (312) 256-6067.
    By the way, I strongly suggest you get a copy of this publication (it's being updated all the time) and spend about 20 hours just reading all the various listings.
    Believe me, it will really open your eyes!


    By the way, the courses I took were not online courses they were physical products that were sent directly to me that I just happen to purchase on the Internet, just like buying a book from Amazon. As a matter of fact I got them dirt cheap through eBay, because at the Dan Kennedy website these products are very expensive. But as you know many people by courses in things like this and don't even use them they are just dreams sitting on their shelves and eventually they wind up selling them for a much cheaper price. That's how I got mine. Does that mean that this information is any less valid than a book that you would buy a put on your shelf?

    However, I found many of your comments to be very helpful and I will make sure that I bookmarked this page so that I can reference many of the things that you told me.

    Thank you ever so much for your help I really do appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed answer.

    God bless,

    Mark "Elmo" Ellis
    Signature
    Mark "Elmo" Ellis
    "When It Comes To High Response Copy - I've Got Your Back!"
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

      Travlinguy

      "Rate and data services? Are you kidding?"

      Travlin Guy,

      I have read a ton of books on the subject of information marketing, but they all referred to the S RDS as being the Bible of locating a market. As a matter fact Dan Kennedy's latest book on information marketing talks about the S RDS as if it was the holy Grail of information product research. Not only does he talk about it extensively in his book, but Gary Halbert's books have the S RDS listed all through them. As a matter of fact here's a direct link to a page where Gary Halbert talks about it. The Gary Halbert Letter, Exact Name Mailing List Here is the quote from that page:


      There are two primary sources that have info on these types of lists. The first is the Standard Rate & Data (SRDS) List Book. This is a huge book containing a description of literally thousands of different mailing lists. Your library should have it (ask for SRDS Direct Mail Lists Rates and Data) and, if they don't, you can call SRDS direct at (312) 256-6067.
      By the way, I strongly suggest you get a copy of this publication (it's being updated all the time) and spend about 20 hours just reading all the various listings.
      Believe me, it will really open your eyes!


      By the way, the courses I took were not online courses they were physical products that were sent directly to me that I just happen to purchase on the Internet, just like buying a book from Amazon. As a matter of fact I got them dirt cheap through eBay, because at the Dan Kennedy website these products are very expensive. But as you know many people by courses in things like this and don't even use them they are just dreams sitting on their shelves and eventually they wind up selling them for a much cheaper price. That's how I got mine. Does that mean that this information is any less valid than a book that you would buy a put on your shelf?

      However, I found many of your comments to be very helpful and I will make sure that I bookmarked this page so that I can reference many of the things that you told me.

      Thank you ever so much for your help I really do appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed answer.

      God bless,

      Mark "Elmo" Ellis
      I appreciate your long and thoughtful response. With that said, I personally think you are into some serious overkill.

      It's not my style to spend so much time researching a market. I have a half dozen profitable items in various stages of development right now. Experience tells me they'll work because I already know the markets are profitable and I have already been profitable with four of them. I know many very successful marketers that have not clue one as to what the standard rate and data guide is and it hasn't hurt them in the least.

      Perhaps if I were running a large corporation and had to please investors or even shareholders I'd need very detailed market research and data. But for a one-man (or even a 10-man) operation it's just not necessary, at least for me.

      If it's working for you, fine. But I tend to doubt all this research is is doing you much good when you come here and ask, "How do you know for sure if you are creating a product in a niche that will actually sell?" I've told you what I do. Many people here take a similar approach to picking profitable products and services to market as well.

      Be aware that many people spend so much time analyzing things they never get around to selling anything. Don't let that happen to you. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
    JBSmith,

    How many sites do you have??? My goodness, that seems like a lot, almost as if you were a big corporation or something.

    We often test sites by launching a content site - nothing major, a blog or a 5-10 page html site to start optimized around a few of the keyword combinations we want to test...then we offer content + action (opt-in to a free report, e-course, video series, etc...). This gives us a good sense of which of the 5-10 sub-niches we test are getting the best results as well as allowing us to refine the messaging, traffic sources and offer"

    This sounds as if you have a lot of websites to test! Do you purchase individual URLs for each of them???

    Thanks so much for all of that information!
    Signature
    Mark "Elmo" Ellis
    "When It Comes To High Response Copy - I've Got Your Back!"
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  • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
    Travlin Guy,

    I really like what you have to say. You are right, it is overkill. I would much rather try marketing your way than to kill myself with all of this analysis. Anyway, thanks so much for taking all of that time trying to point me in the right direction.

    Thanks again!

    Mark "Elmo" Eliis
    Signature
    Mark "Elmo" Ellis
    "When It Comes To High Response Copy - I've Got Your Back!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Spencer
    Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

    Over the years, I've taken several information marketing courses that I thought were well put together. However, there have always been questions about how certain aspects of a business like that this supposed to work. For example, the first thing that they tell you to do is to not create the product first. What they tell you to do is write the advertisement first and then worry about developing the information product. The problem I have with this is how are you supposed to know whether or not your product is something that people would want to begin with? The information marketing courses never talk about what you have to do first, which is find out what your market is. Not only that, but they recommend that you look in the standard rate and data service to do some marketing analysis. However, as I have stated on this form several times, the standard rate and data service books are not available to everybody. I have looked at many libraries and also online to see if somebody had a copy of it in their library and could find none in my area. But that does not really answer my question. How do you know for sure if you are creating a product in a niche that will actually sell? It would seem to me that this is the most important step you would need to make for even thought about making an information product.

    Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from somebody who has used this strategy this and has actually done it. Well, not actually just done it, but somebody who is actually made some good money from doing all the work up front that needs to be done.

    Thank you in advance for your answers.

    God bless,
    "
    Hello Elmo,

    Having built and sold 3 successful Internet Businesses over the last 3 years - I feel that I'm qualified to answer your question.

    QUESTION: How do you know for sure if you are creating a product in a niche that will actually sell?

    First of all, you can sell anything.

    Your ability to sell is not so much based upon what Harvard textbooks would have you believe.

    If you can list enough reasons-why that are compelling, about your product.

    It will sell.

    From there you venture into the unknown (further into the unknown, actually) and you get on your lab coat and test, test, test like a raving scientist.

    If you have ever heard of the expression "He could sell ice to Eskimo's" you will understand the seed I'm planting.

    Your selling ability will trump marketing analysis in 9 out of 10 cases.

    The other 10% of the time is reserved for products/services that have not been introduced to the marketplace before.

    And therein is a lack of believe-ability about what it can do.

    Without familiarity - selling becomes more difficult - why? Because fear of the unknown.

    Fear of the truth. The truth being - will it give me the results it promises or not?

    Think among those lines, and you can build and sell 3 internet businesses too. Or keep them.

    I'm building my 4th. And I have momentum.

    Cheers.

    Justin
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