Sicked and Tired, Thinking of Giving Up...

55 replies
Hi all,

First off, as the name might imply, this is an alternate account created solely for the purpose of this thread. Reason being, my main account also uses my IRL name (I believe in full disclosure), and what I'm about to post is one thing I'd rather not see associated with my name, especially as it can be easily Googled.

Point is... It seems that I've tried many things, and I'm just not getting anywhere. Over the past month or so, I put together what I felt were quality products related to the current economic environment (I'll leave it at that). I drove targeted PPC traffic (yes, it was TARGETED - I'm just posting it because I know from experience that 10 posts later, people will blame the traffic for lack of sales).

The two products bombed dismally, even though I priced them at below $20 and one of which had a fairly strong USP. Not a single one of them was in the IM market - I don't believe in selling people techniques to make money online when I haven't managed it myself.

I wrote the copy for them myself, and maybe that was the problem - but I just haven't got the funds to invest $3,000+ into a decent copywriter. Don't get me wrong - I know that these guys are worth every penny and then some, and that it truly is an investment and not a cost - but I literally don't have that kind of money. I could raise that, for sure - by borrowing from friends or emptying my savings account - but considering my prior product history, I'm not certain if it's a wise investment to make.

On the surface, I wanted to follow a simple yet effective plan:
  1. Analyze the market and develop an e-book offering high value at low prices
  2. Write copy
  3. Drive targeted PPC traffic to the page and make a small profit
  4. Reinvest the profit into a quality copywriter to redesign the original page for greater conversions, and use the subsequently increased profits to develop additional products
  5. With multiple products and multiple streams of income driven by PPC traffic, finally lay back a little and figuring out what this life thing is all about

Instead, I seem stuck on Step 3 - for my first product, I brought 500 targeted visitors and didn't get a single sale, while for my second product I'm literally struggling to get at least 100 unique visitors a day at $0.25 (something that I was easily able to accomplish with my first product). Even then, I didn't make a single sale.

Right now, my life consists of working on IM until 5AM, going to bed exhausted, spending the night having dreams of PayPal payment notifications in my inbox (it happens every night, I kid you not) and waking up to the grim reality that not a single sale has taken place.

Yes, I know that some of you would say that I took action and that's great - but to me, action is worthless without results. Right now, I feel like I'm beating my head on a brick wall every day. Every single morning I wake up and don't see a sale, I launch into depression that leaves me bed-ridden for several hours at least while I try to snap out of it - because I literally feel physically sick when I sit in front of the computer and see that nothing has changed, that I haven't gotten anywhere.

I don't know if the plan I posted above is flawed, or if it's my copy that sucks - but I do know that I find myself with absolutely no motivation to keep going. I can't bring myself to spend even more money on PPC tweaking products that just don't work - and, for all I know, if I release another product, I'll just end up with the same results.

I've always thought that I'm a pretty smart fellow - but this is making me feel like a complete idiot...
#giving #sicked #thinking #tired
  • Profile picture of the author JayInOrlando
    Why not post the URL so that we can review and offer suggestions for you?

    Jay
    Signature
    $600 a day? Easy! - Super Affiliates Contact ME for to get in on this private health supplement offer.
    !!! ONLY FOR THOSE WHO PUSH VOLUME !!!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810899].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
      Originally Posted by JayInOrlando View Post

      Why not post the URL so that we can review and offer suggestions for you?

      Jay
      Jay,
      That is why he/she used another forum name, does not want you to know... - Not sure that is allowed here though...

      James
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810909].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    Maybe it is time to try other methods of traffic besides PPC..

    * Article Marketing
    * Video Marketing
    * Bookmarking
    * Building Opt-In List through Giveaway's
    * Social Networking

    There are so many forms of free advertising, why just stick with only PPC ...

    James
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810908].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Diane S
    PPC is at the bottom of my list, with a couple dozen things above it, and I am not done working my way through the list. I have heard so many horror stories of people losing everything to PPC.
    Signature
    KimW still needs our help DONATE DIRECTLY
    My First Kindle Book: Ten Days in the Land of Smile
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810912].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author adamv
    It definitely sucks when you work hard and don't see any results but I can't tell you how sick I am of these "I'm gonna quit" posts. It seems like once or twice a week someone posts the same story. They work hard, spend time and money, and get nothing out of it so they post on here about how they're considering giving up.

    I think most of the posts are more of a cry for help but if you have questions, just ask them. If you're going to quit, just quit. I don't understand these types of posts and why they keep popping up. I guess people want to hear things like "don't give up, you can do it" or some other encouraging words.

    I struggled for a long time before making any real money online but I never needed anyone to tell me everything was going to be alright. I knew I would make it sooner or later because that's what I wanted and I was not going to quit until I made it happen.

    If you're seriously considering giving up then maybe internet marketing is not right for you. If you're certain this is what you want to do then find someone successful in a style you'd like to master and follow what they do or get coaching or something.

    You really have two options, quit or ask questions and figure out a different way to approach your problems. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but I don't understand why so many posts are made that seem to be looking for a virtual hug and a reassurance that everything is going to work out. It will only work out if you figure out how to work it out.
    Signature

    Get a professional voice over for your next audio or video project at an affordable price -- I will record 150 words of text for just $5.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810915].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author legednary11
    I would never stick to just PPC i would work towards SEO and viral marketing, a good way to increase your sales is to give away a free mini ebook if they signup to your newsletter, or better yet they sign up to an auto responder which gives 1 email a day for 4 days giving a few hints (nothing big) from your book that way you have a better chance of getting signups and then via emailing build customer confidence to buy.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810917].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LB
    If the traffic was targeted as you say then there are a few possibilities.

    1. You're selling something nobody wants. This is the number one problem I see with most struggling marketers.

    2. Your offer sucks.

    3. Your copy sucks.

    4. Your traffic wasn't really targeted to your offer.

    I would say 1-3 or a combination thereof are most likely.

    Don't ever think you're too smart or too good or have done too much research to fail. Even though I've had a ton of success I still have product ideas that just bomb...the trick is to identify why, learn from it and move on.

    Your best bet would be to find some copywriters who are good at what they do (the expensive kind) and shoot them an email and say "here is my product...do you think I'm selling something viable that someone wants and is my offer any good?" Copywriters can identify this quicker than most...if the answer to both is "yes" then see numbers 3-4 above.

    Best of luck.
    Signature
    Tired of Article Marketing, Backlink Spamming and Other Crusty Old Traffic Methods?

    Click Here.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810918].message }}
  • The reason I'm working on PPC is because it provides instantaneous results. Article marketing can take a good month or two before you see enough traffic to get a real conversion rate (I should know, I have 130+ articles for one of my squeeze pages, which earns me a whooping $100 every month).

    Video marketing is out of my reach - I'm not a native speaker of English and I'm not photogenic enough, so I'd need to hire actors/pay for voiceovers.

    The whole idea behind PPC is to turn it into an ongoing source of traffic that I can control. I don't mind investing into it so long as I get to see returns. Plus, I'm starting a new job in a week (which is full-time and doesn't pay a dime - don't ask) - so I really won't have a lot of time on my hands.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810923].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Lanadili
      You might need to look closer at the products you are trying to sell. Are they products that you would actually use yourself? Or just ones you thought others would want to use. If you don't use the products yourself, you have to ask why would anyone else?

      Stick to products that you would actually use yourself, and you might see a big change. If that doesn't work, then you'll have to re-evaluate your sales copy.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810949].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Shane Dolby
      Originally Posted by Alternate Identity View Post

      Article marketing can take a good month or two before you see enough traffic to get a real conversion rate (I should know, I have 130+ articles for one of my squeeze pages, which earns me a whooping $100 every month).
      .
      Do this 10x and you have 1k a month. Its not all about the quick hit that does not build steady income. Its all about dupicating what works. You will hit and miss but just keep doing it.

      Shane
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810962].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author legednary11
    Thats only a better reason to use SEO as then once you have started it you do not really need to worry that much long as you work on finding long tailed keywords and send someone off to do directory and article marketing for you.

    In terms of marketing quickly do the mini ebook idea and post it for free (ofc) on forums and then that pretty quick responses on your ebook and publicity.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810931].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LB
    Article marketing, SEO etc. only provide traffic. The OP's problem seems to be his offer or copy...why worry about driving traffic to an offer or salespage that sucks?

    Sort that first and then paying for traffic will actually make money.
    Signature
    Tired of Article Marketing, Backlink Spamming and Other Crusty Old Traffic Methods?

    Click Here.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810935].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
      Hi,

      It is clear from the length and detail of the original poster's post that they want help.

      But without knowing the url and what words you are targeting, then asking for help is really not going to be of much help.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810971].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sitywyde
    Internet marketing is not an easy road...You need to keep on your toes and keep pushing forwards..If you want to make money online you have to have a system. Keep your chin up..take a rest..and come back stronger!
    Signature
    Use My FREE System= Go Here
    Spin Sentences For Article Marketing=> Free Tool
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810938].message }}
  • @Adamv
    I hate to say this, but you're right.

    @LB
    This is a fantastic idea - exactly what I was looking for. THANK YOU.

    @Legednary11
    SEO is a long-term solution - and, at this point, I can't afford to wait 2-3 months to see if the product sells or not. Hence why I wanted to invest into PPC - the whole concept of spending money to earn more money. I wouldn't mind doing SEO - but only on something that's already proven to be working.

    Concerning e-book giveaways - unfortunately, most popular non-IM forums prohibit commercial or self-serving links of any kind. Regarding your suggestion of giveaway -> list -> sales - it's something I'm considering at this point (just taking two of my bonuses and offering them as giveaways, and then selling the main book as a back-end).
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810942].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jgand
    You shouldn't give up. Persistence pays off eventually, if you keep chugging along eventually something good will happen. Competition is stiff these days,gotta outlast the competition.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810947].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author clarissa25
    Banned
    I'm not sure but I wonder about your copy if you are not a native English speaker...not to offend or anything, but I know the writers on DP who are native speakers, did not write the copy the same as those who did have this quality.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810950].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author downloadrights
    samething happen with me when i was start a online business , but you have to do hard work , never feel like this you are looser, go ahead and win the internet game, do not let your hopes down.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810956].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      products related to the current economic environment
      You've followed a trend - but is it a market where people are buying? In the newspapers, on TV and on sites and blogs, info about the economy is available free.

      Unless you are offering real solutions to economic problems faced by individuals or families - there may not be a market to sell to.

      kay
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810968].message }}
  • Alright, folks, let me thank everyone for their feedback.

    Based on the information provided here, I'm going to follow LB's advice and run my site past an experienced copywriter, and use the aforementioned checklist to diagnose the problem.

    It's great to be finally doing something that actually might get me somewhere...

    Thanks a lot! We can probably close this thread now, too, since I've gotten more advice, encouragement and yes, even rude awakenings than I could've expected.

    Cheers, folks, you're an awesome bunch.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810960].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author clarissa25
    Banned
    Oh and one more thing. Guest professor...I believe the url is somethign like guestprofessor.com maybe. They write ebooks for like I think a couple hundred. This is the website for internet research associate writers. I write for them, and i know they always have ebook assigments and they pay us like 85.00 to write them, so they must ask the clients for maybe 200 or even less. We are very good writers and we make revisions. So maybe you want to add to your business by getting a writer from there.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[810983].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author traces2757
    Another idea: Perhaps you could trade some of your expertise in something for sales copy expertise?

    My first thought upon reading the title of this post was "oh...another person who tried for a month and then gave up because he didn't make a fortune", but I can see that you really are trying. I think that networking with others who have strengths where you have weaknesses and vice versa might help you get over the profit hurdle.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811006].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author howudoin
    Instead, I seem stuck on Step 3 - for my first product, I brought 500 targeted visitors and didn't get a single sale, while for my second product I'm literally struggling to get at least 100 unique visitors a day at $0.25 (something that I was easily able to accomplish with my first product). Even then, I didn't make a single sale.

    Right now, my life consists of working on IM until 5AM, going to bed exhausted, spending the night having dreams of PayPal payment notifications in my inbox (it happens every night, I kid you not) and waking up to the grim reality that not a single sale has taken place.
    Ok alternate, here's my 2 cents....First off....You would have done yourself a favor by posting it under your real name rather than using an alternate account. Not only is such a thing borders on Legality here on WF but also because there is no shame in trying and failing at first.... Now let's get to the real thing....

    You have not mentioned as to how long have you been doing IM and any other skills you might have acquired in the process. Do you know how to conduct a solid keyword research? I mean, even for PPC, you need to have a sense as to which keywords you should be bidding on. Simply bidding on low cost keywords does not mean that the traffic is "targeted". Further, its also a mystery as to why you're not using article marketing as an alternative source of traffic generation when you're sure that you are getting "targeted traffic". Why don't you show a small list of keywords that you're currently bidding on (Just 5 or 6) and then we can see whether they are targeted or not.

    Also, check who else are bidding on the same keywords and if they're selling or promoting a similar product. I think there are some tools to see as to how long the same person is bidding on a certain keyword...the longer means more profitable.... Have you done this kind of competition "spying" while deciding to bid on these kewords?

    Bhupinder
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811039].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    In my opinion, you need to go back to step 1 and
    take another look at your market.

    Are you offering a product that people are willing to
    pay
    for to solve an immediate problem?

    Yes, it could be the copy.. but in my experience, the
    first place to analyse is at the first point of contact.

    So..

    1. How did you research the market?
    2. What "buying" keywords have you identified?
    3. How many people search your primary keywords
    each month?
    4. Are there other products being sold in the market?
    5. Are other people bidding on your keywords?
    6. Are there any forums, groups, social sites dedicated
    to the topic?
    7. Are relevant questions being asked on "Answer"
    sites?
    8. Are there books on the topic on Amazon?
    9. Are there specialist magazines on the topic?
    10. How much free information do you need to
    compete against?
    11. What Unique Selling Point can you offer?

    John
    Signature
    John's Internet Marketing News, Views & Reviews: John Taylor Online
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811086].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Andy1750
    Hello,

    Firstly I note your comment that your products were targeted towards the current economic environment. If by this you mean people that are worst effected then this could be your first mistake - in my opinion, people with little money won't spend money on expensive ebooks. Have you found any similar products on Clickbank? Why not write to the author posing as an affiliate and ask what their conversion rate is?

    Secondly, I know everybody bangs on about Clickbank and ebooks on this forum. However, a lot of the time when people are looking for information they are not looking to spend money. Is the information that you were trying to sell them in your ebook widely available for free elsewhere on the net? Why would anybody want to buy it? Could they buy a similar book in Amazon or their local book store for $12?

    I don't know your background or what you have tried before but I suggest that you go back to basics. If you must do PPC with information products then test the water first by promoting somebody else's similar product. If it works then this may be something to focus on and create youor own, similar product. If not, you have not wasted your time.

    If you are strapped for cash then go back to free traffic methods. Once you have free traffic this is a golden opportunity to test. Change things, make amendments and establish what works and what doesn't. In this way improve your copy so that you don't need to spend $3000 paying someone else to do it. Then, once you've perfected it with free traffic you can confidently set up a PPC campaign knowing that you should expect to see reasonable conversions.

    PPC is skill and I have also wasted a lot of money of various campaigns that have failed. Unless you really know what you are doing and have a product that you are truly confident in you are just raising the Google share price. I know what you mean - it's an incredible temptation - immediate traffic. But for many PPC is not way of making consistent return for a promotion, it' just a way of TESTING whether something converts before they focus their attention on the free traffic methods. In fact there are some PPC campaigns that can never work because the targeted keywords are just too expensive relative to your return.

    Another option would be to get affiliates to promote your products. If you do this it is them and not you that is taking the risk.

    Perhaps you could also consider moving away from information products altogether? There are many physical products out there (e.g. Amazon or Commission Junction). There are loads of products to chose from and you know that they convert (you're surrounded by them in the shops!). How about doing some keyword research and setting up a new site every couple of weeks with a view to generating a trickle of income from each? You won't be rich overnight but in, say, 12 months you could have a regular passive income.

    Just ignore the wingers. They would say something positive if they had anything valuable to say. After all the whole point of this forum is to ask questions and share information. Just think logically, methodically and move along at the right pace without lunging for the product creation and PPC option straight away.

    Thanks,

    Andy
    Signature

    Not trying to sell you anything :-)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811105].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lillian
    Thank you alternate identity, I feel for you. PPC did nothing for me either. I really appreciate your question simply because the answers have given me so many things to think about.
    Yes, if you are not a native English speaker then do have a copywriter take a look at it.
    I am currently using a method developed by Steve Weber to test a market and will let you know how it goes.
    Signature

    Lillian

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811111].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author daneault23
    I'm sorry you're not having any success. I was the same way at first. Honestly, you need to figure out if this online thing is for you. It can be very easy to make money online, if you know what you're doing.

    When I first started online, I had exactly NO IDEA what I was doing. I didn't know anything about SEO(or what it was), absolutely nothing about online marketing in general or anything like that. I spent countless hours late in the night/morning almost giving up myself. However, I'm not a quitter and never have been.

    I admit I don't know everything about online marketing, but I'm learning all the time.

    My advice is to keep your head up, and try some free ways to promote your products so that way if for some reason they don't work, you won't have to spend anymore money.

    I'm just trying to give you some uplifting advice from someone who has been where you have been before. Don't give up and keep pushing forward.

    Winners never quit, and quitters never win.

    Good luck to you in the future. I hope it all works out.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811117].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
      PPC directly to salespage is a bad idea.. let's just say you were to learn the art of presell.. and you were to drive traffic to a presell only website.. maybe 3 pages of presell, each with an unblockable popup that will capture their names and email adresses if they try to leave..

      My suggestion is, do a little more research before PPC.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811136].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
        Originally Posted by Intrepreneur View Post

        PPC directly to salespage is a bad idea.. let's just say you were to learn the art of presell.. and you were to drive traffic to a presell only website.. maybe 3 pages of presell, each with an unblockable popup that will capture their names and email adresses if they try to leave..

        My suggestion is, do a little more research before PPC.
        Weren't you the guy who started a very similar thread not too long ago? I'm pretty sure I made a post in it and basically said to "stop crying and deal with it". If you are, then perhaps you shouldn't be giving out advice when you haven't got anywhere with it yourself.

        Now, I was GOING to do my whole "stop being such a wuss" thing here, but after reading the OP it's clear that you aren't a slacker... you just haven't had any luck yet.

        It can be really painful to keep screwing up and feel like you're not getting anywhere... but the truth is if you keep working smart (and you're doing that, because you've tried to figure out, logically, what went wrong) then you'll get there one day.

        Something I've found is that there only has to be ONE thing wrong for your entire effort to fall on its face. You can be targeting the right keywords, the right audience, have a product everyone wants, etc etc... but if, for example, your sales page doesn't have emotion, or build your credibility, or whatever, you're screwed.

        It's like a car engine - you only need one major problem for the car to be un-drivable.

        Regarding your writing, I would never have guessed you're not a native English speaker. Your writing is excellent - better than most native English writers. In fact, you have such an ease with colloqialisms that I was pretty sure you WERE a native English speaker - so kudos.

        Without seeing the page you'll never get any help. That's not to say you should post on it an open messageboard - maybe just PM some people whose posts you find inspiring, who seem to know their stuff, and ask them what THEY think... hopefully they will give you some ideas to work off of.

        I truly believe that you will be successful eventually... it'll just take time.

        -Dan
        Signature

        Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[812251].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lindsay Brynn
    It looks like you have some good suggestions here. It is definitely not an easy business! I've launched a few different products over the last couple months and one that I thought would do really well sold basically nothing and another that I didn't expect much from is still selling really well without further promotion. You just live and learn.
    Signature
    Lin Writes - Quality E-Book & Article Ghostwriting Service.

    $7 WSO: PLR Rights to 100+ Wordpress Themes!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811205].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author annihilator
    Dear "Alternate Identity",

    I first considered learning things about IM less than a month ago (I literally didn't know what an "affiliate" was, for example, I was that zero) and after some time spent on research and what to do, I decided to take action.

    I created an affiliate site, did article marketing and SEO, and made a respectable start (50-60 targeted visitors per day, and I made my first sale within a week). But unfortunately while the visitor count stayed constant, I was never able to make another sale. Last week, my Clickbank account saw a total of 400 hops and only one sale.

    Like you, I was very sick and tired (I know you're bored but read on, it gets better). The problem with IM is that, you learn IM by writings (free or paid) that always claim to make you money instantly and there's no possibility you'll see no action in your wallet if you do this, that, bla bla.

    Well, that is wrong. The important thing to know is, this is not a game where a proven method will always work and earn you money (so that you can build tanks and destroy your opponent's base). This is real life, and you are earning real money. It can NEVER be easy, because if it were easy, everybody would be doing it, and then the amount everybody earned would diminish because the money from the pool goes to simply a lot more people now. Everything finds its balance, trust me. This means: There's no way to build your own business that will guarantee money.

    Anyway, continuing my story: Because I was disillusioned with the whole "You Can Make $32162,356 A Month! That's Why I'm Selling This Method For Only $20" thing, I was on the verge of quitting. But before that, since I had built a so-so site with sort of good search engine rankings (40 on google for my main keyword... blah) I decided to try different methods on the site before quitting.

    I tried a few different things, nothing was happening, still 40-50 uniques per day... until something happened and I began to get THOUSANDS of visitors per day to my site. I'm not going to disclose the method obviously, and I'm not earning as much money anyway (the visitors aren't targeted, one day I got twenty thousand unique visitors and made only $40 from adsense) but the thing is, there is no proven method, you just have to try lots of different things, and something will work.

    I'm still not making really much money ($40-50 per day. if I were any good at AdSense I could triple that in a matter of minutes, I have no doubt on that) and the method I'm using is not sustainable so it'll wane after some time (already began to), but now I got that it can really be done. You have to be active. And be active on the right things. What I learnt from my one month of experience in Internet Marketing is: The worst mistake you can make is sticking to just one method. If you'll work 50 hours on Internet Marketing this week, work on 50 methods, each for an hour. If you work 50 hours on only one method, it's going to suck horribly.

    Stop focusing on only one thing. Start doing different things, and after you find something that brings you results, then you can focus on that.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811532].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LB
    there is no proven method, you just have to try lots of different things, and something will work.
    I'm sorry, but that is the farthest thing from the truth. The reason most people fail is because they try to "reinvent the wheel" rather than learning from those that have gone before them.
    Signature
    Tired of Article Marketing, Backlink Spamming and Other Crusty Old Traffic Methods?

    Click Here.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811545].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author annihilator
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      I'm sorry, but that is the farthest thing from the truth. The reason most people fail is because they try to "reinvent the wheel" rather than learning from those that have gone before them.
      Of course. I'm not saying everyone should invent their own methods. However I'm saying that there are at least 50 different "proven" methods to make money online, and sticking to one of them is the worst thing you can do. The Internet, especially this forum, is full of different ways to make money. It's not wise especially for a newbie to stick to only one of them.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811561].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SullyUI
    Can I address something that people often overlook?

    Your emotional state. I am definitely not a psychologist, but it's obvious to me that you're very emotionally attached to this, which I understand. Ironically too much emotion usually ends up hindering your progress. You definitely need some, but not too much and most people are way too attached to their business.

    Take for example marketer A. Marketer A has emotional attachments to his progress. The attachment is understandable, because marketer A is under a lot of pressure to make things work. He/she might have a mortgage that is in danger, kids to feed, just lost a job, etc.

    Marketer A buys a bunch of different products because he is desperate to get the "all in one" money making product (in my opinion there is no such program).

    Then he will try out his product for a few weeks at the most, likely not get any results (because it takes time in this business to get results and build a real business) get frustrated and start to get more emotional, which makes it worse for him to be able to step back and look at what is working.

    Marketer B has attachment to his business, but its not overwhelming. He has a job and he does this on the side to see if its viable. If he fails at it his business he's not going to lose much because he has a back up plan, his job.

    So, he has one thing that most starting marketers don't have, time. And he takes time to try out the methods that he learns online, get results, find out what works, and keep doing more of what works.

    No one truly has time, but you need time in order to get this thing going, that's the hard part.

    My honest recommendation, get a full time job somewhere, take the pressure off, and then try to get your business going. Even if your job is ghostwriting articles at 8 dollars a piece or whatever, just find something to take the financial pressure off so you can detach yourself a little and be patient with it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811556].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author dadhere
      Wow,

      Do I know how you feel...

      I worked online for about 3 years without a single penny made and spent all kinds of money I couldn't afford. Then I found a website with an address of a fellow who apprently lived only a few miles from me.
      I thought, what the hell, give him a call and see if anyone answers. So I did but no one answered. I left a brief message and really didn't believe I would hear from anyone.

      Well knock me over with a feather, I got a call about half an hour later from the guy and he offered to get together sometime for a coffee!

      This guy took the time to show me what to do to get started and within 30 days from meeting him I had made almost a thousand bucks.

      Now this fellow has a work ethic that is amazing. He keeps building his list and building websites and getting them indexed and socially bookmarks them and more. I don't think I would give anything away by saying he makes between 10-20k a month.

      He's struggling a little now with the (perceived) economic situation but he just keeps doing what works over and over.

      His name is Doug Champigny and is known by almost every successful marketer online. Even the guys who make the monsterous bucks call him up for his advise and experience.

      He always takes the time to help people out which is why I believe he'll make it very big, and it will happen soon. By big I mean 100K in a month cause he works and he gives.

      I lack the work ethic he has but I know money can be made online so I'm spending a balanced amount of time online and then work and family and my spiritual beliefs. Not necessarily in that order though

      There's one phrase that kept me going for those first 4 years while I made nothing. It was "Failure can't compete with consistency".

      I knew it was true so I kept trying, and applying. Today I make consistent money mostly from memberhip sites I referred people to (good ones so they don't quit) and I recieve checks every month.

      But I'm working on new avenues that are lucrative and easy to work with. Its just a matter of time before I see the results, so I'll keep doing what I'm doing so I can get the freedom to work from home and enjoy my son's and my life more.

      Remember that most people quit "Just before the miracle happens".

      So don't be a quitter, it will be worth it, honest!

      Peace!



      .
      Signature



      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811596].message }}
  • I didn't want to bump this thread, but since it's found its way back to the top all by its own, I thought I'd take the opportunity to thank everyone here for taking the time to leave their feedback. Positive or negative, constructive or disruptive - it has helped me to keep going.

    And Sully, I completely agree with you - I'm way too emotionally attached to this. Unfortunately, due to legal reasons, I am unable to work in my current country of residence - so getting some sort of online income is the only option available to me. I fully agree with you that it's always best to grow an online business when you know you have an online safety net to fall back on in case things turn dire - but, sadly, I won't have that luxury for a few years at the very least, unless things change dramatically.

    By the way, I just realized there's an embarrassing typo in the title of this thread - guess that just goes to show how incredibly frustrated I was when I made it. "SickED and Tired"? Really? =)

    EDIT: Concerning the legality of alternative identities - I checked WF rules prior to doing this, and, to the best of my knowledge, alts can be used so long as it's not to reply to your own posts, mislead people in any manner, promote content or to generally do anything gainful.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811617].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
      Dude,

      There are quitters and there are winners. Quitters never win and winners never quit.

      Here is the the success algorithm written in C:

      Code:
      #define FOREVER 1
      int main()
      {
         int Success = FALSE;
         int Idea = FIRST_IDEA;
         int Method = PPC_ADS;
      
         while (FOREVER)
         {
            Success = TrySomething(Idea, Method);
      
            if (Success == TRUE)
            {
               PutOnAutoPilot(Idea, Method);
      
               // Try next idea
               Idea = NEXT_IDEA;
            }
            else
            {
               static int Failures = 0;
      
               StopDoingWhatYouAreDoing();
               FigureOutWhatWentWrong();
               Method = NEXT_METHOD;
               AdjustYourMethod(Method);
               if (Failures++ > MAX_METHODS)
                  Idea = NEXT_IDEA;
            }
         }     
      }

      And there's no crying in IM either...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811646].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Warrior Markets
        Alternate Identity, hi


        Reading your original post, I was left feeling that you'd put in all that effort and got nothing in return. However, you then mentioned that one of your projects gives you a "whooping $100" a month. This is not to be frowned upon.

        Yes, I appreciate that the effort you put in is perhaps worth more than $100 a month, but the fact that you can make $100 a month - every/most month(s) - shows that you can make money.

        Now, it's about scaling. Or doing what you do that little bit better; tweaking, even.

        I hope you realise you're way ahead of most. Ask around; most people here would be happy with a "whooping $100" a month. So, don't give up - you will get there.

        P. S. The fact that English isn't your first language is almost a moot point here; your grasp of the language is good. Very good, in fact - better than most "natives".

        -WM
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811744].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author upscholar200
    Keep trying, you should see results with time and practice (talking from experience)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811750].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JorgeD
    Read this super article by Perry Marshall:

    Memo from a Pink Kool-aid Drinker
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811754].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
    Just a few things.

    even if you have the best product in the world... you need 2 things to make it a success.

    1. A hungry crowd

    2. that crowd to have money they WANT to spend.


    A product concerning the current recession probably isn't going to cut it.

    One more thing, any list you have, and any ppc traffic you get should be sent to a survey (e.g. survey monkey). You can then survey your prospects on whether they are willing to pay money and what exactly it is they are willing to pay for (ebook, audio, video, etc.)

    good luck.

    Simon
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811786].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Terri LC
    Hi Alternate Identity; I just wanted to add that you shouldn't shy away from video marketing, it's huge and it ranks alot higher in the search engines.....trust me, I have watched many videos where the subject is NOT photogenic, but I admire that they don't let looks deter them at all; if they have good information and appear genuine, I can sit through anything.

    Also, have you only been at this a month? Please be patient. I've been learning for 2 years and only now have started to finally take action, I was stuck in analysis paralysis.

    And don't be afraid to do some blogging as well with links to your site. Don't forget to give before taking......what FREE high-value content are you offering your prospects?

    "The current economic situation" is no guarantee that people will buy your product, especially when so many others are trying to capitalize in this area as well.

    I hope you update us and let us know how all the new advice is working out for you.

    Good Luck!!

    Terri
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811800].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author edhan
      There is a market for everything. But if you are doing it on the wrong market, the end result will be nothing.

      Without knowing what you are marketing, we can really help much. If you show us your URL or product or squeeze page to let us be aware of what you are doing then we may be able to give more constructive comments. This may even help to get sales.

      I always believe by saying 'giving up' is a lame excuse (sorry being straightforward). It is just a feeling of not wanting to do more so by giving up will be the easiest escape. Just like those who say 'I am going to die', they are giving up because it is easier than facing the truth.

      Instead of feeling bad or giving up, why not give some thoughts as why you are not moving in the right direction of making sales. Know more of your products and find out the market trend. Are you advertising in the right group of people? Share your product to 10 people to get reviews.

      Just like a new born baby who learns to crawl and then walk. Falling down but determine to walk, stand up and walk. Failure doesn't mean end of the world. Try and try again is the key to success!
      Signature

      Be blessed with Thai Buddha Amulets & Tibetan dZi to accumulate wealth, health & good fortune
      Build your own community business
      Article Directory Source Code with blog & Classified Ads
      Understanding the cycle of Karma & Merits

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811825].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SullyUI
    I agree with Edhan, the best thing you can do is put your pride aside and post your links here so that we can give you feedback and tips. That will put you ahead faster than anything else I can imagine.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[811845].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    OK, I am going to throw my hat into the ring here. First off, get your head on straight and suck it up. You have work to do and crying about it won't get the job done. Here's a virtual hug :hug: Now let's go:

    First off, PPC to sales page, unless it's a Nintendo DS for $1 w/free shipping is going nowhere. How do I know? I spent hundreds of dollars of ads targeted at buying keywords which went straight to a sales page and zero sales. TOTAL FAILURE. OK, rethink the problem.

    Reworked the sales page into a short but sweet, right to the point squeeze page. Here's my report, download it for free or leave. Conversion, 30% on free report. Wrote around 30 autoresponder messages with call to action at the bottom suggesting several products that will address their specific needs. Conversion, 1-2% per email. Now, even though the numbers are steep, meaning lots of money on PPC front end, the overall value of the customer (lifetime) makes this profitable.

    Evaluating the lifetime value of your subscriber is key. Do the numbers and if they make sense, continue the campaign. This is not for people who have no money or are starving.

    TomG.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[812531].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author WritingMadwoman
      Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post


      First off, PPC to sales page, unless it's a Nintendo DS for $1 w/free shipping is going nowhere. How do I know? I spent hundreds of dollars of ads targeted at buying keywords which went straight to a sales page and zero sales. TOTAL FAILURE. OK, rethink the problem.

      Reworked the sales page into a short but sweet, right to the point squeeze page. Here's my report, download it for free or leave. Conversion, 30% on free report. Wrote around 30 autoresponder messages with call to action at the bottom suggesting several products that will address their specific needs. Conversion, 1-2% per email. Now, even though the numbers are steep, meaning lots of money on PPC front end, the overall value of the customer (lifetime) makes this profitable.
      Tommy, truly valuable info, thanks for posting this. I found the very same thing with sending visitors directly to salespage, major waste of time in my case too. But hey, we never know until we try, right? I've seen others say it works for them - must be dependent upon the niche?

      Wendy
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[813183].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
        Originally Posted by WritingMadwoman View Post

        Tommy, truly valuable info, thanks for posting this. I found the very same thing with sending visitors directly to salespage, major waste of time in my case too. But hey, we never know until we try, right? I've seen others say it works for them - must be dependent upon the niche?

        Wendy
        Wendy, it's definitely dependent on the niche. Last week I sent PPC traffic directly to a sales page for one of my niche products and it's converting at 10% consistently. Cold traffic, lots of sales.

        The problem with these threads are:

        1. There's no information by the original poster. Therefore, no real advice can be given

        2. Because there's no real information provided by the original poster, replies come in the form of personal opinion, which are largely irrelevant.

        I've seen people announce all sorts of theories about why PPC doesn't work, why sales pages don't work, why email marketing is the answer...

        ...but I think the undeniable fact here is simple and clear:

        No matter what is going wrong with this mystery posters project, there's one root cause:

        POOR RESEARCH.

        It's the one thing so many folks rush through or totally ignore. I know why - because it's tough and even a little boring. And when you spend all week researching, if something smells fishy before you go to the next stage of your campaign, you tend to ignore it because you don't want to go back to the drawing board.

        I've done it too. Until I learned to be more disciplined about my research phase.

        And incidentally, the results of my solid research speak for themselves...a 10% conversion rate on cold PPC traffic.

        Not trying to show off, but it has to be said.

        If the research was done properly, then the person in question would KNOW how to reach their market, and how much traffic there was. They would also know which platform of advertising works best, which ads pull the most, the best way to handle their traffic once they click his/her ad, what to sell them, how they want to be sold to, in what tone, at what price...and on, and on and on...

        And ultimately, they would KNOW that what they were planning to offer has a good chance of selling before even spending a dime on PPC.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[813304].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
          Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

          Last week I sent PPC traffic directly to a sales page for one of my niche products and it's converting at 10% consistently. Cold traffic, lots of sales.
          I really hope that you aren't trying to tell all the people here that this is typical in any sense for a PPC campaign. The majority of PPC campaigns end up in the tank. Why do you think there are so many courses and memberships teaching PPC who's members are complaining that they can't make it work? I've been in those forums, I've seen the numbers. So great for you Nick, I truly am happy that PPC works for you. As I've said in other posts, I made PPC work for me when I was importing computer accessories and parts from China. That worked for me because I had the margin and I was beating the competition over the head with it. Ebooks? Not so much...

          TomG.

          PS - If you want to help me with a certain PPC campaign, I'll take all the help I can get , PM me!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[813846].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
            Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

            I really hope that you aren't trying to tell all the people here that this is typical in any sense for a PPC campaign.
            No at all, in fact my point is that most people will see PPC as a problem BECAUSE they don't do the right research.

            Bidding on loose, high competition terms isn't going to be ideal. But neither is bidding on terms that the market is already telling you don't convert (discovered in the research phase).

            The other problem is people try to be too clever with it. I know, that sounds counter intuitive, but sometimes it's better to throw away keyword tools and all the tricks for a second and just think like your perfect prospect.

            And if you can't paint a picture of your perfect prospect and don't know what they are thinking - then you've failed to do your research.

            (I'm speaking to the masses here, not you personally Tom)


            Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

            The majority of PPC campaigns end up in the tank. Why do you think there are so many courses and memberships teaching PPC who's members are complaining that they can't make it work?
            See above.

            It's not a golf ball that makes Tiger Woods rich...it's how he hits it. If PPC is your golf ball, don't blame the ball when you're scoring way over par.

            More specifically, PPC is just the vehicle to the end result. If you have something valuable to offer and you know your numbers, all you have to do is match your product with relevant keywords and the rest is history.

            Throw out the ones that aren't converting.

            Oh that's a good point too - I wonder how many marketers are actively tracking their conversions down to a keyword level, or how many folks are willing to lose out on their initial ROI to find out where the money is first?

            The problem is that most folks want to turn a profit right out the gate and end up throwing out perfect opportunities because they "only broke even"

            Long story short - it's not PPC that's the problem here.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[813978].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Tommy, if your sales page isn't making sales from direct visitors, I would guess it needs some serious work. Obviously your emails are doing a fantastic job of selling the product... but email selling and sales copy are two different animals.

    Your squeeze page seems to be doing well. Maybe there is something your sales page is missing that your emails fill in that are getting you the sales.

    Most niches work fine with traffic direct to the sales page, in my experience anyway. You may be in a niche (or selling the kind of item) where a high level of trust is vital... but I would guess your sales page is just missing something.

    -Dan
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[812541].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AdamSlade88
    You should consider finding a successful mentor and learn from them. Jonathan Budd is good
    Signature
    "All Achievements, All Earned Riches Have Their Beginning in an Idea"
    Napolean Hill
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[812881].message }}
  • Here's my take:

    Don't spread into SEO, article writing, etc. Your problem is not traffic - your problem is conversion.

    Now there are two main reasons for poor conversion:

    1) Poor copy, poor sales page, poor product presentation
    2) The product/niche itself is not in demand, or people are not willing to pay for it

    My guess is that the problem is #2. You seem to have driving few hundreds TARGETED visitors to your sales page already. Even with poor copy, you should have seen a few sales already even if the conversion rate was a humble 0.5%. My guess is that you're trying to sell something that carries a low "sellable" factor.

    PS: we need more info in order to give you any good feedback.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[813414].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author chrischua
    I know, failing in the things you do really sucks.
    Let me give you all some inspirational push up. haha.

    I just went for seminar by a self -made multi-millionaire, Adam Khoo.
    He's only 32 years old and already a multi-millionaire, so I jotted down his notes.

    Here's something you have to learn when something or a problem is stopping you from your road to success.

    1) Fear Of Failure
    It's common, we are all humans, the fear of failure is there.

    Questions always like:

    * What if I fail?
    * It's impossible for chap like me!

    What if successful gurus, like Adam Khoo gives you answers like:

    * What if you succeed?
    * I start from the scratch to become what I am now, why can't you?

    It's all in the mindset whether you believe a not!

    2) No capital

    Rubbish!
    Every business NEEDS CAPITAL!
    There are many people who don't understanding this concept.

    What I'm trying to say is, to start a business, you NEED CAPITAL!
    Show me a successful business out there, operates with NO CAPITAL!
    There is no such businesses around!

    Buying of inventories, rental cost, employee cost, training cost, etc etc etc.
    All needs capital!

    When people hear starting a business, they are seems to be very interested.
    When asked for a sum of capital to invest, they all just run away, likewise for IM.
    Yes, having that fear of failure.

    "What if you succeed? Ever thought of that?
    People just said it's impossible, then I tell them, they're impossible to become successful !" - Adam Khoo


    3) No ability

    * I can't do sales!
    * I suck at marketing!
    * I don't like facing customers!
    * I got no confidence!
    * I hate to be successful?

    Giving all these excuses, will not only cause yourself to fail in your thinking, you will also not learn any process along the way.

    We all learn along the way of path we chose.

    Can I say because you fail your Mathematics for example,
    you gave up on your entire Mathematics from that day on?

    NO!
    You continue learning from your mistakes and try again the next time right?

    In life it's the same,
    you failed your relationship with your gf/bf.
    You don't give up hope just because of that failure relationship.
    You buck up, learning the mistakes you've made back then, and try on another relationship. Correct?

    Same goes for business skills.
    Rejection by your customers, so be it!

    Learn from it and approach the next.
    Approach and approach and approach until you hit that first sale.
    Sit and think how you did it, and improve on that area.
    That's the learning process!

    Cheers,
    Chris Chua
    Signature

    Regards,
    Chris Chua

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[814175].message }}

Trending Topics