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How To E-mail Market...The Right Way??

by Breakinglink
23 replies
Hey Warriors, I have a couple of questions about proper (legal) procedure when it comes to email marketing.

I am going to email quite a few tattoo shops in the coming week and I want to keep myself 1. Out of the spam box and 2. Out of the icy stare of lady law. I want to give my plan for now and if you find something I am doing wrong, and I mean blatantly wrong, feel free to weigh in and let me know. I take criticism extremely well, so bring it.

I am hiring someone to scrape the email addresses, names and websites of tattoo shops in the US. I am going to go in manually checking each for a certain feature (qualifier for what I am selling) and create a 2 lists, one that has the thing I am looking for and the other that does not.

I plan on mailing those that do have the feature an email by importing the mailing list into either a Google doc and doing a mail merge which has a 500 a day cap. Or I am going to add them to Mail Chimp and send them all out. I am worried as I have heard that MC has a track record of having things marked as spam.

As far as the email itself, I understand there are some elements that I have to have. I can't have a deceptive title and I have to have my mailing address but other than that I am clueless.

I am practicing "Just In Time" learning so forgive me for the lack of knowledge but what I have so far has been gathered from long threads.

Have any quick and dirty tips? Something I have missed? Let me know, thanks for reading.


Jared
#email #marketing #marketthe
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    I think "scraping" and "the right way" are mutually exclusive concepts, aren't they?

    This forum's a very bad place to ask for or to take legal advice, because it's terribly easy to be inadvertently misinformed by people who mean well and don't get it quite right. http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...al-advice.html

    I'm not in the US and I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that if you are in the US, you'll be breaking the law if you send out bulk unsolicited email to scraped email addresses. Isn't this part of the Can-Spam Act of 2003?

    Wikipedia certainly seems to think so: Email address harvesting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    • Profile picture of the author petelta
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I believe that if you are in the US, you'll be breaking the law if you send out bulk unsolicited email to scraped email addresses.
      Yep... illegal. If you're going to scrape for emails, personalize each and contact like you're cold calling them to sell your services.

      Just so you know, this is one of the most ineffective ways to get your message across to biz owners. Pick up a phone and you'd be surprised at how many more you will close.

      I know it doesn't have the appeal of sitting behind a computer making money, but you're system isn't an online marketing system.. it's a biz to biz system.
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      • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
        Originally Posted by petelta View Post

        Yep... illegal. If you're going to scrape for emails, personalize each and contact like you're cold calling them to sell your services.

        Just so you know, this is one of the most ineffective ways to get your message across to biz owners. Pick up a phone and you'd be surprised at how many more you will close.

        I know it doesn't have the appeal of sitting behind a computer making money, but you're system isn't an online marketing system.. it's a biz to biz system.
        Thanks for the confirmation. I am trying to run something I can be proud of, using tactics that I can share openly. Anything that messes with those two things isn't appealing.

        I am going to do a split test on phone calls and emails. I know emails are not the best method but there was a reason to put emphasis on emailing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I think "scraping" and "the right way" are mutually exclusive concepts, aren't they?

      This forum's a very bad place to ask for or to take legal advice, because it's terribly easy to be inadvertently misinformed by people who mean well and don't get it quite right. http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...al-advice.html

      I'm not in the US and I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that if you are in the US, you'll be breaking the law if you send out bulk unsolicited email to scraped email addresses. Isn't this part of the Can-Spam Act of 2003?

      Wikipedia certainly seems to think so: Email address harvesting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      Well I am going to have to disagree that it is a bad place. Evidence of that is that you came in and gave a reasonable explanation of why I may be doing it wrong.

      I also know that there are interpretations of law that people can fight about all day and why I was only really looking for the blatant flaws. I mean if a boxer was only successful at punching himself in the face, we could all agree that isn't the best idea and boxing may not be for him.

      As far as your question about "scraping" and "the right way" being mutually exclusive, I don't know. I opened myself up to criticism because, based on my limited knowledge, I was doing nothing wrong. However, your phrasing leads me to believe I am.

      If I were to buy this list completed by another company, does this clear me of any grey area tactics?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Breakinglink View Post

        If I were to buy this list completed by another company, does this clear me of any grey area tactics?
        My hunch is that it doesn't, but I don't know.

        (It shouldn't, really, arguably - because that would be such an easy circumvention of the Act, wouldn't it? I think it will be "sending to scraped email addresses" that's the problem, rather than only "scraping them yourself"? That would make more sense, I think?)

        Anyway, as far as the Warrior Forum's concerned, I think it's fair to say that if you bought a list scraped by another company/person and wanted advice about emailing them, it would still be considered "sending out bulk, unsolicited email" - and condoning or advising about that has actually been a banning offense in this forum for a long time, now! (Don't get me wrong - I'm not for a moment suggesting that "just asking" would get you into trouble here, but it does mean that nobody could advise you about doing it, probably? ).
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    • Profile picture of the author illiptic
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I think "scraping" and "the right way" are mutually exclusive concepts, aren't they?

      This forum's a very bad place to ask for or to take legal advice, because it's terribly easy to be inadvertently misinformed by people who mean well and don't get it quite right. http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...al-advice.html

      I'm not in the US and I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that if you are in the US, you'll be breaking the law if you send out bulk unsolicited email to scraped email addresses. Isn't this part of the Can-Spam Act of 2003?

      Wikipedia certainly seems to think so: Email address harvesting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      THIS ^^^

      pretty much sums it up
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      • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
        Originally Posted by illiptic View Post

        THIS ^^^

        pretty much sums it up
        Any thoughts on the link put in the 14th post on this thread about the CAN SPAM guidelines?

        No offense but Wikipedia just doesn't cut it for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author ScorpionGod
    Originally Posted by Breakinglink View Post

    I am hiring someone to scrape the email addresses, names and websites of tattoo shops in the US.
    You're hiring someone to scrape Email Addresses? Then it's not the time to talk about the "right way". Email Marketing is not something that you do by scraping.

    Real Email Marketing is done after receiving the consent from the Email Owner. That's why people do offer ethical bribes such as eBooks, Email Courses to build their Email List.

    That's what I called the "Right Way"

    Many people used to scrape and send, but it is not even effective in open rates, clicks etc. And Scraping way is strictly illegal and looks Spammy. However, in your case it's hard to build an Email List of Tattoo Shops with Ethical Bribes.

    Instead of shops you might be able to create an Email List of people.

    Best Wishes,
    Shyam Chathuranga.
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    • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
      Originally Posted by ScorpionGod View Post

      That's what I called the "Right Way"
      Thank you Shyam for your reply. I am starting to gather that I was a little bit off with my method and I am changing to adhere to a more ethical plan.
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  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    I would do it manually.

    'Instead of hiring someone to scrape the emails I would check the sites for a contact email and use that, email them my offer or introduction and go from there.

    You can outsource this. Instead of outsourcing someone to scrape emails hire a virtual assistant to find the sites and actually send an email to the prospect. It would take longer but the results would probably be better

    al
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    • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
      Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

      I would do it manually.

      'Instead of hiring someone to scrape the emails I would check the sites for a contact email and use that, email them my offer or introduction and go from there.

      You can outsource this. Instead of outsourcing someone to scrape emails hire a virtual assistant to find the sites and actually send an email to the prospect. It would take longer but the results would probably be better

      al
      This was not something that I had given any thought to. Thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author ScorpionGod
        Originally Posted by Breakinglink View Post

        This was not something that I had given any thought to. Thanks.
        That suggestion may work for you well. Because you're contacting the Shops using their own Website Contact page.

        I guess it's hard to do the right Email Marketing thing with Tattoo Shops than people who are interested in Tattoos.
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        • Profile picture of the author salegurus
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          This forum's a very bad place to ask for or to take legal advice, because it's terribly easy to be inadvertently misinformed by people who mean well and don't get it quite right. http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...al-advice.html
          Well, at least you tried Alexa. People insist on asking for legal advice on a forum where maybe a handful out of 1/2 Million members are qualified to give opinion...


          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          it would still be considered "sending out bulk, unsolicited email" - and condoning or advising about that has actually been a banning offense in this forum for a long time, now!
          Don't think that's still true, people do it all the time...
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  • Profile picture of the author EnterIn
    Hi Jared

    Here is a quick summary of how to do email marketing the right way.

    1. Do some research online and find out EXACTLY where tattoo shop owners congregate or hang out. Find out which websites, blogs, forums, newsletters etc. For instance http://www.checkoutmyink.com/shops
    (Man, I'm really doing the work for you enh!)

    2. Craft an irresistible offer based on your knowledge of your niche. What would tattoo shop owners really like to get their hands on? Offer them that for free. You can figure this out if you take time to think. Just make sure your free offer is something you can deliver online.

    3. Advertise your offer at those online locations where you discovered that tattoo shop owners hang out.

    4. When they click on your ad, send them to an email capture page. Using persuasive marketing, let them know that the only way to access your free offer, the one they crave, is to subscribe to your email list. Promise not to spam them but to only send them information they want.

    5. Now you have some email addresses. Your autoresponder (like Aweber) would have sent them your free offer. Keep sending them other valuable information. It exists. Just figure it out. Also ask them what else they really want. Then do your best to deliver it. This builds a relationship with your subscribers - tattoo shop owners.

    6. Now that they are warm and open to you, get the information you want through surveys sent by email.

    7. Create a plan to make money (if that’s what you want) based on your newly acquired intimate knowledge of your subscribers. Your plans may change to something that is completely different from what you first had in mind. But that's a normal consequence of the process described above.

    That's an oversimplified summary of email marketing but hope you now have an idea of how to go about things the right way.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Breakinglink View Post

      Well I am going to have to disagree that it is a bad place. Evidence of that is that you came in and gave a reasonable explanation of why I may be doing it wrong.

      I also know that there are interpretations of law that people can fight about all day and why I was only really looking for the blatant flaws. I mean if a boxer was only successful at punching himself in the face, we could all agree that isn't the best idea and boxing may not be for him.

      As far as your question about "scraping" and "the right way" being mutually exclusive, I don't know. I opened myself up to criticism because, based on my limited knowledge, I was doing nothing wrong. However, your phrasing leads me to believe I am.

      If I were to buy this list completed by another company, does this clear me of any grey area tactics?
      I think you are creating friction with your phrasing ("scraping" emails).

      What you proposed in your original post goes beyond the "scrape and spam" model most of the other respondents are thinking of when they call it illegal.

      If you read and follow the guidelines in the CAN-SPAM act, you'll see that sending unsolicited mail is not illegal so long as you follow the guidelines.
      (Downloadable PDF from the FTC)

      Petelta raised another important issue. I'm guessing that you want to email these tattoo shops to offer some kind of service (SEO, social marketing, email, etc.). If you have ever seen the email box of a business owner with publicly available contact info, you'll understand why Travis said what he did. Watch these same business owners sorting mail at the post office, and you'll see them do it over a trash can. The delete, or in some cases, spam, button serves the purpose of the trash can.

      If you want to have a chance, do not pitch them on the service in this initial email. Pitch them on permission to communicate. Offer them a white paper on the subject of your service or offer, no strings attached. No email required, no opt-in form. Send them to a page selling them on reading the report. Nothing else. Let them download it.

      If you have the budget, either pre-sell the email or backstop it with a postcard or phone call. Or use the postcard as the offer and backstop it with the email.

      Inside, demonstrate your knowledge/expertise and how what you do is of specific benefit to tattoo shops, especially those with the marker you are looking for. Offer still more info.

      Only this time, the info does have a cost - an email address and permission to use it. Or a phone call. Their choice.

      Get them this far, and you have a real chance to make your case. Hit them with yet another offer for [fill in the blank], and you won't make it out of the inbox alive...
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      • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
        @EnterIn- Thank you very much for the reply. This actually is my next step and I am really excited to get a chance to test it. I am working on writing a Free Report about a tattoo shop that is having success doing what I am offering. (not SEO, web design etc) It breaks down what they are doing and why they are doing it, including some info about how the service benefits them and serves their customers.

        My plan was to send people to this report from the emails. The companies with the marker that I described would benefit the most from this info. Sorry I am being so vague, I will be glad to share this in a PM if the info will help with the answer.
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      • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        I think you are creating friction with your phrasing ("scraping" emails).
        Indeed, I believe you are correct. Thank you for taking the time to link me that info on the guidelines, it really is appreciated.

        You bring up some really great points and I will be doing more research into how I should be going about my initial contact and how "get out of the inbox alive".

        One question for ya, is downloading the report or case study an important part of the process. To clarify, if I were to just link to some page on my website where I have this posted, would it not have the same impact? Does the download of the file create a sense of ownership or urgency?
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by Breakinglink View Post

          One question for ya, is downloading the report or case study an important part of the process. To clarify, if I were to just link to some page on my website where I have this posted, would it not have the same impact? Does the download of the file create a sense of ownership or urgency?
          Back when all courses were physical products, one way buyers determined the value of the package was by the "thud" it made when the delivery person dropped it on the front steps.

          Putting your info on a web page is ephemeral - once they close the browser or navigate away, it ceases to exist. In many ways, this is like an affiliate direct-linking to a sales page. In both cases, you only get one shot at the viewer taking the next step.

          With a download, and I am still very fond of PDFs, you take up space on the prospect's device. They've made a small commitment - to download your report. Now, it's there nagging in the back of their mind until they open it.

          Once open, you get to make your case. Do that well, and the prospect may print the doc to share with others for input, or pass the PDF around.

          A good 10-page PDF white paper has a lot more "thud" than a single web page. Making it available without the opt-in will probably get you more downloads - more prospects with your presentation on their hard drives. The right people will contact you or initiate the next step.

          For me, at least in B2B, that next step is permission to enter the inbox as an invited guest - an opt-in. I'd probably set up a custom landing page for tattoo shop owners who have already read the white paper, and the only place I would link it would be the paper itself.

          You want to use the white paper to paint the broad strokes, the gist of what you are doing and why it's especially pertinent to owners whose sites have the marker you selected for. The landing page assumes they agree with the premise of the paper (the old "Assumed Close" for old time sales guys) and makes the case for taking the next step - getting on your drip list, picking up the phone, whatever your next response is.

          The other thing I've experienced offering a download is that people will contact you at a later date. I retired from active consulting a few years ago, but I still get the odd contact from stuff I put out back then.
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          • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            With a download, and I am still very fond of PDFs, you take up space on the prospect's device. They've made a small commitment - to download your report. Now, it's there nagging in the back of their mind until they open it.
            Once again John, thanks for helping out here. This has given me real insight into this process. I definitely want something that makes a "thump", so no half as*ing my PDF.
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  • Profile picture of the author theimexpert
    The fact you've used 'quick and dirty tricks' suggests you want a way to get out to tattoo shops regardless of morals and legalities.

    I don't know what it is you plan on doing, but if you're going to contact physical shops then why not get out there and either do it in person or via leaflets in your local area?

    Use your local area as a sample, I'm sure within 25 miles on your house there's a few?

    IF whatever it is you're doing proves successful, the look to go national/international with your plan and with the money generated in your local area, contact tattoo shops in a more moral and legal way such as PPC advertising?
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    • Profile picture of the author Breakinglink
      Originally Posted by theimexpert View Post

      The fact you've used 'quick and dirty tricks' suggests you want a way to get out to tattoo shops regardless of morals and legalities.
      This was simply a poor wording choice and not an indication of a lack of moral or ethical standards. I do clear this up in follow up posts. Thanks for the reply.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vietnam VA
    Hello Jared,
    I also interested in Email marketing, and I have some useful share for you:
    1. What email address you should send to: You should try to find the name and email of that business owner. Example: Jonathon Smith is owner of ABC Company; and his email is: JonathonS@acb.com. Try to not use email type: info, contact, reception...
    2. Email Subject: Should mention name of receiver. Example: "Jonathon: Improve your business online with our service"
    3. Email template:
    Example: Dear Jonathon (name of person you send email)
    And you should show to them in a clearly way: Who you are, where do you from, and what benefit you can bring them and your contact information.

    Hope that some share above will useful for you. If you need further support you can contact me
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  • Profile picture of the author paramkumar
    As my experience E-mail marketing is very effective if you do it in proper way. My complain is that many people starts spamming and they call it E-mail marketing.

    So, in my opinion do email marketing but do not spam. E-mail marketing really helps in growth of business and it will really increase your business sales.
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