Do You Respect the Gurus?

101 replies
Hey guys,

Awhile ago, one of my students that I'm coaching told me that how much she hate "internet marketing gurus". (no pointing finger here)

However, I am very fond of the gurus because they have produced amazing products that helped me take my business to the next level.

So, I'm just wondering if you respect the gurus OR your hate the gurus.
#gurus #respect
  • Profile picture of the author ken_p
    hate is such a strong word. i would say, no i dont hate them, after all the experiences shared, and the informations and knowledge shared. i dont see any reason to hate them.
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  • Profile picture of the author tommen
    This is a "trial and error" game, there are lots of self proclaimed guru´s out there just selling their latest must have products.They are only interested in selling, not teaching.So, you need to be careful and not jump on every new product coming out.

    I don´t hate them, I just believe you need to think for yourself and not believe everything they try to sell you.

    For instance, when some "guru" is trying to sell you a "guaranteed way of getting one million visitors to your site by tomorrow" you can pretty much say it is a scam.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I think the question is stupid.. (sorry)

    It's meaningless.

    The people you're referring to (whoever they are - the word Guru is applied in the eye of the beholder) are just normal people doing the best they can to create success in their life.

    The thing you're probably pushing against is the way some people do business - that's not to do with whether they're a guru or not, it's just what they're doing - which is just the best they can in the position they're in.

    Quite often we respect people that have achieved things that we desire to achieve in our own life - People with a negative mindset can also resent people like this because it highlights the lack of success they see in their own life.

    The way we feel comes from our own mindset and our beliefs and is not really anything to do with other people and what they're doing.

    To ask a generic question like 'Do you hate or respect "the Gurus"?' just plays to peoples mindsets and doesn't even refer to any specific people.

    I've seen a lot of IMers behave badly and also a lot behave tremedously well - so how I could ever make a generic judgement about them all within the label Guru?

    For what it's worth I think we should focus on examples that we aspire to and ignore the rest.

    Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author diger
      Gurus ? Most of them have probably earned their self proclaimed designation? I admire their success BUT not those who have the attitude that they would "kill" to make a sale while being obnoxious, high pressure and would take advantage where ever possible with no limits. Due Diligence helps. Yes, there those that you wouldn't mind letting your friends know that you like!

      diger - Richard Morrison
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      • Profile picture of the author JazzOscar
        To me that no-no, four letter word, starting with the letter "g", is reserved for a more spiritual world than the realm of internet marketing.

        Since I joined this forum August 2007, starting to look into this world of IM, I've got more and more distance to the head over heals admiration that some people have for some other people.

        People in the world of IM is just ordinary people, more or less successfull, and with more or less ethical attitudes. In other words; Just as in the real, offline world.

        My matrix for deciding how I should interact with these quite ordinary people is more or less like this;
        • Monetarily successfull marketers with good ethics; Follow them and learn what you can.
        • Monetarily successfull marketers with questionable ethics; Avoid them. It's difficult to know whether their monetary success comes from questionable methods or not.
        • Monetarily unsuccessfull marketers with questionable ethics; Avoid them and their discussions of more or less unethical methods for trying to make money.
        • Monetarily unsuccessfull marketers with good ethics; Avoid them as examples to learn from. They may be interesting people and good friends though.
        In IM, as in the real world, there are all kinds. Some people you respect and want to do business with, some that you avoid.

        Don't use the best part of your time thinking about loving or hating those people.:confused:

        Use it to work on your own business.


        Off Topic P.S.: After submitting this post I just saw that I now have 222 posts, 22 thanks and have been tanked 11 times in 11 posts. 11 and 11 also adds up to 22. So it's all 2s. Does this somehow bring me to the second level in this game? LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Originally Posted by daveo342 View Post

    some are good some are bad, alot of what they share is old news,

    no ones going to give away the big earners
    That's a fallacy.

    People share what's working for them here all the time.

    Knowing what works for other people has very little to do with what will work for you - so many people dismiss the gold nuggets that are shared.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      That's just one extreme example.

      There are plenty of people helping others make real money online every day.

      Hating these in you face 'Gurus' for blasting you with emails and complaining that they over-explain everything is just a negative attitude.

      Some people want things over-explained.

      Some people will only 'get' something once they hear it from a particular person (their favourite Guru).

      If YOU don't like that stuff - that's fine, we all have preferences, but to say people are selling BS and hating them for it says more about you than about them.

      Don't hate them - just become what you think is better.

      Andy

      Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post

      I don't hate them.. i don't like them either. They over explain Everything for marketing purpose & Sell it for high Price like 1997$

      For Example: Traffic.

      All of us know that how to get traffic from different sourcess, but a Guru will make it

      * 10 Modules
      * 8 Interviews
      * 2 Seminars
      * 50 PDF
      * 10 Power Point Slides to Explain just "Traffic" ?? this is insane :rolleyes:

      Launch it, Make V2 of it and relaunch, later he will explain how he made 1 Million $$ sell from Launch and re launch. its al BS :rolleyes:

      etc etc.. and will make Million $$ from fluff information they provide. Thats my point of view about those so called IM Gurus
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Anderson
    a guru is in you eyes only. "experienced marketers" are just that, experienced, if you keep at it you will also become experienced. if i ever had a gripe it would be the inaccability of these gurus. and can you blame them. if you had a list of 50 000 people and each and every one asked you for the best combination to put onto their pizzas nobody would ever make any money.
    buy their product, learn, do, and carry on with your own marketing.
    hell for that matter while i have you here - i am a guru on at least 10 different things in life.
    ask me a question "+)
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  • Profile picture of the author SolomonHuey
    I love the "gurus". Without them, I would still be making nothing online. They showed me how to do well online and teach me what to do every day through their actions.

    Solomon Huey
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Putting aside the "G-word", and applying the question to high profile, successful marketers of information related to making money online...

      I don't "hate" any of them. Hate is an emotion that takes too much energy for something as trivial as this. So is "love"...

      Do I respect the so-called gurus? I respect what they've accomplished, but there are a few I wouldn't invite home for dinner. Let's just leave it at that...
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      • Profile picture of the author Craig McPherson
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        but there are a few I wouldn't invite home for dinner. Let's just leave it at that...
        Hit the nail on the head there John.
        There are a few here who have the gall to call themselves "gurus"

        For gawds sake.

        If using the words "me", "my" and "I"* were barred from the forum there would be some people here who's post count would halt to a trickle.

        Craig
        * Of course people sharing their experiences of success use these words. I'm talking about people blowing wind up their own A$$
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  • Profile picture of the author maxdog
    Well said Andy

    "That's a fallacy.

    People share what's working for them here all the time.

    Knowing what works for other people has very little to do with what will work for you - so many people dismiss the gold nuggets that are shared."

    I agree straight talk.
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  • Profile picture of the author Elvin Tiong
    It depends.
    Some gurus earn money by keep selling products to their customers, those I don't like.
    Some gurus really provide useful tips and information to clear your doubts, I really reapect them for their efforts and will likely to buy their products. These gurus success because they really help others to success.
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    • Profile picture of the author JazzOscar
      Originally Posted by Elvin Tiong View Post

      -----
      Some gurus earn money by keep selling products to their customers, those I don't like.
      -----
      I thought that was the usual way for a business to earn money.

      I've been the owner of a one man offline IT business for about 25 years now. What use would I have been to for my customers if I didn't sell them products and services?:confused:

      I must have greatly misunderstand the whole concept of doing business.

      Time to stop selling, at least to customers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        • Profile picture of the author multihb
          Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

          I respect the ones who other people (whom I respect) tell me are real gurus.

          The ones I instinctively disprespect are the ones who fill out their sales pages, newsletters and marketing information telling me themselves, at great length, that they're gurus.
          Hi,

          I agree with you Alexa, there are real gurus If we still use this word:-) (honest, responsive, responsible, supportive, persons who care their customers and are getting great trust to them in short time, sending useful tips and supportive ads to their mailing list,not just to get more money)

          and so called gurus (no real support after money collected, no real support responses or at all, countless quantity different ads pushed to their mailing list, overall a lot of issues with them because they care just to collect newbies money)

          Both of them exist, I can say by my experiencies

          So I don't hate any gurus, I just appreciate some of them and some not a bit..
          Gurus being Honest, responsives, responsibles, supportive will have all my points..

          All the best,

          Aatos (aka multihb)
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDavies
    Well said Elvin, no one will ever complain if you over-deliver on your product, information or customer service.

    All my best!

    Rick Davies
    ProfitMart.com
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonvthomas
    Guru's are just successfull Internet marketers. Why would someone want to hate successfull people unless they are not jealous of their success
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    • Profile picture of the author Mawardee(A)
      Originally Posted by jasonvthomas View Post

      Guru's are just successfull Internet marketers. Why would someone want to hate successfull people unless they are not jealous of their success
      Maybe I am quite agree with this statement.
      However, that's the way the do things.

      & I don't see any problem at all - they help people
      eventhough sometimes really expensive - but it's
      worth your penny.

      But the problem is the people who buy or join their
      membership or coaching, do not do what they learn.
      that's the biggest mistake and that's differentiate between
      success and failure.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        I would really like to hear from the folks who post these questions... Why? What is the purpose of starting threads like this?

        So some insecure person hates some undefined group. So what?


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author The Great Gordino
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          I would really like to hear from the folks who post these questions... Why? What is the purpose of starting threads like this?

          So some insecure person hates some undefined group. So what?


          Paul
          It's actually an interesting discussion starting point, which on a forum about IM has a place.
          If you don't like the question, how about just moving on to the next thread *without* having to put down the person asking the question?
          It starts to get tired Paul- unless you are the question police, leave people to ask what they want eh?

          As to the question itself, I think what a lot of newbies in particular feel is 'frustration' more than hate, towards marketers that promote a big ticket product saying it's the last one they'll ever need, they are exposing all their secrets, only to come back next month with another 'last product you'll ever need.'

          But, and hanging around forums like this will teach you, they are simply very good at making money in their niche.
          I personally consider that some of them go down an ethical road I would think twice about, but that's my own choice, and I don't make the money they do - is it then that's wrong, or my choice that's wrong!

          So, don't hate 'them', learn as much as you can, source as much free stuff as you can, and take action over and over,
          Gordon
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            It starts to get tired Paul- unless you are the question police, leave people to ask what they want eh?
            At what point did I suggest they couldn't? Did I flag the post? No. Did I suggest it be deleted? No.

            Did I say anything at all about Desmond? No. I said something about his student. Read first, sir. Then respond.

            I pointed out that it's a dumb subject. The idea being to make people aware that asking questions without meaning will get them questioned back. If you don't like that, don't read my comments.

            Sauce for the goose, sir. Sauce for the goose.

            You know what gets tiring, Gordon? Reading the same old stupid crap, day after day, and seeing it dredged up yet again by people who've been around long enough to know better.

            "I hate gurus!"
            "Do you hate gurus?"
            "Why does everyone hate gurus?"
            "The gurus are all crooks!"

            This next part does not apply to Desmond, because it's clear he's trying to get a grasp of the reaction. That said:

            This general topic is stupid, meaningless nonsense, inspired by malice and envy.

            Define "guru," in a way that gives these questions meaning, and the questioner will argue it. But will they be able to give a meaningful definition of their own? Hell no. That would take away their license to hate without acknowledged cause or understanding.

            What they really hate are successful, high profile people. Folks who've got what the hater hasn't, because they've done what the hater won't.

            That's why this subject comes up again and again. Because we don't call people on what they're really saying.

            I think this is as good a time as any to call them on it.


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author The Great Gordino
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Did I say anything at all about Desmond? No. I said something about his student. Read first, sir. Then respond.

              Paul

              I did read.

              Here's what you said:
              "I would really like to hear from the folks who post these questions... Why? What is the purpose of starting threads like this?"
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                I did read.

                Here's what you said:
                "I would really like to hear from the folks who post these questions... Why? What is the purpose of starting threads like this?"
                How, precisely, is that putting Desmond down?

                You're looking for something that isn't there, Gordon.


                Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  I've reached the point where I lose respect for people who want to talk about gurus. The love/hate aspect is simple...

                  You hate they make a lot of money from people like you

                  You'd love to make that much money yourself


                  kay
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                  • Profile picture of the author admin
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                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    I've reached the point where I lose respect for people who want to talk about gurus. The love/hate aspect is simple...

                    You hate they make a lot of money from people like you

                    You'd love to make that much money yourself


                    kay

                    I think the word should be banned from here entirely. It means absolutely nothing. There are people who couldn't sell water in the desert who are now called 'guru' because their shirt sleeve accidentally rubbed up against a popular marketer at a seminar.

                    It's become laughable...

                    Most of the people who bring up the word guru don't even know who actually should be called one. (and I'm not saying anyone should be called one)
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                    • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
                      Originally Posted by admin View Post

                      I think the word should be banned from here entirely. It means absolutely nothing. There are people who couldn't sell water in the desert who are now called 'guru' because their shirt sleeve accidentally rubbed up against a popular marketer at a seminar.

                      It's become laughable...

                      Most of the people who bring up the word guru don't even know who actually should be called one. (and I'm not saying anyone should be called one)
                      I'd respect you for those comments if only you were a guru
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                      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                        Allen,
                        I think the word should be banned from here entirely.
                        DUDE!

                        Please. Please. Ban it. Please?

                        It will be hysterical to see what word they come up with in its place.


                        Paul
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tony X
                      The word guru means pretty much nothing to me. However, I do respect the "guys (and gals) at the top".

                      It takes work to get there. A lot of work. They work hard, study hard, and read a lot of books, courses, and everything in between.

                      This is a business. Just like any other business. It's a battle and fight everyday.

                      Yea, there are days where you bank a lot of money. But it takes a lot of work to get to the point where you can do that. (Frank Kern is a perfect example)

                      The ones who walk the walk, I truly respect.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
                      Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy View Post

                      That was the funnest thing I've read all week! (Funny and true.)

                      THANKS!

                      Craig
                      It is true.

                      Not only IM either - I see it all the time in the self-improvement niche in particular. The movie "The Secret" spawned gazillions of gurus after they watched it once, and "teachings" in the movie are not even correct.

                      I don't think there is a benchmark for a guru, but I do believe 5 years experience - better 10 years - indicates a person has experience they can share with others.

                      And no "guru" or teacher is complete until they have fallen and risen again.

                      I also agree with Allen - the word "guru" in and of itself is self serving, misleading and really should not be used.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Will_Surren
                        I have much respect for Mike Filsaime and Fran Kern as marketers and as real people. Guru or not I have never heard them refer to themselves as Gurus and don't think I will. They are high achievers in the market and we are all working our butts off trying to get to where they are now. Don't think they did not have to go through all of the hard work we are going through.

                        Furthermore, I am sure they have more headaches than we have ever thought of having. Let me just say this... They give back and they give back big time. Mike just gave away 15,000 copies of his software and I can tell you that the package I received cost more than the shipping and handling to produce. Sure he is banking on making money on the backend but there are many people that received the software and training materials free and will opt out of his program soon after receiving the product.

                        Also, if you take a look at the following thread http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...preciated.html started by Mike you will find out that he and Frank give back big time. As far as my family and I are concerned these two ROCK....
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                        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
                          Originally Posted by Will_Surren View Post

                          I have much respect for Mike Filsaime and Fran Kern as marketers and as real people. Guru or not I have never heard them refer to themselves as Gurus and don't think I will. They are high achievers in the market and we are all working our butts off trying to get to where they are now. Don't think they did not have to go through all of the hard work we are going through.

                          Furthermore, I am sure they have more headaches than we have ever thought of having. Let me just say this... They give back and they give back big time. Mike just gave away 15,000 copies of his software and I can tell you that the package I received cost more than the shipping and handling to produce. Sure he is banking on making money on the backend but there are many people that received the software and training materials free and will opt out of his program soon after receiving the product.

                          Also, if you take a look at the following thread http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...preciated.html started by Mike you will find out that he and Frank give back big time. As far as my family and I are concerned these two ROCK....
                          Mike is the real deal, but again, for me, Frank Kern is a legend.

                          I have seen his progress from the start, and believe me this guy never had it easy - in fact he has been though a situation that would destroy many people and wiped him out financially.

                          Another think I like about Frank is that he never takes himself or IM too seriously - he just loves life and IM is part of that.

                          His cousin Trey is also a seriously nice guy and brilliant marketer.

                          Those with the success and sharing mindset will always be wealthy and they deserve it. Pity there are not more of them about.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Oosha
                            I know it's difficult to be immune to the seducing allure of the term "guru."

                            Generally, when people find someone who is able to live the life they'd like to create, they put them on a pedestal and call them a "guru."

                            Then the expectations begin.

                            These "gurus" are expected to be saints who help every struggling marketer and can never go wrong. When the gurus don't behave as expected, the pedestal is dismantled and hatred seeps in.

                            A case of Guru-envy?


                            Desmond,

                            I respect every successful marketer, irrespective of whether they struggled for their success or not. I'm not envious of people who succeed without any effort. I respect every person who doesn't expect others to help them and who is willing to work hard.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
                      Originally Posted by admin View Post

                      now called 'guru' because their shirt sleeve accidentally rubbed up against a popular marketer at a seminar.
                      So, I was at this bistro in Beverly Hills quite a few years ago and I do believe my jacket was hung up beside the coat of one of the Playboy Bunnies, so from now on I would like to be referred to as Sexy Bitch. I'm sure Hef wants me to do as full centerfold, with me in a mankini and spreading my sexy body across a bearskin rug.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane Hale
    I admire them and they give all of us aspiring marketers who want to be successful hope and ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author anton343
    I am about to launch my 1st product and I sent my product to a friend for a review (all I was expecting was some comments on the product) luckily this guy has took me under his wing and is helping in the launch.

    Left on my own I would have just completed a 30 - 40 page ebook and thrown it up on the net and if I was lucky earn a few dollars from it.

    Ok it's taking longer than expected, that's because he has made it a lot more proffesional to include training videos etc. and to make sure it gives real value for money.

    Now there is no way this guy would call himself a Guru, yes he earns a full time living on the net but he is not in the league of the super earners.

    To me though he is a Guru and I love him for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author yourreviewer
    One thing that has always puzzled me is the "old rehashed stuff" complaint. Now there are some very fundamental things that have worked and will always work such as list building, relationship marketing, providing value to your prospects and subscribers etc.

    So there will be ebooks/courses/seminars that will touch upon the basics with the route taken by the Internet Marketers to create the path of success they carved out. What has happened over the years is that people consuming these courses want to know something *new* that works and not just stuff that works. What they fail to realize is that if the same stuff is being "rehashed and retaught" then it is a matter of sticking to the basics.

    Sometimes, I feel people seek 'entertainment' in IM because they are so bored of reading the same old stuff. However if you ask them what they did with the 'old stuff' that they know so very well, the answer is often 'Nothing.'
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  • Profile picture of the author chakrur4i
    I wouldn't really hate them, in fact many of online experts helped me a lot to under stand many concepts, I cant just ignore the fact and start hating them, in fact I love them.
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  • Profile picture of the author MR.MOE
    I respect the gurus for there intellegence and how they are able to be so creative and make money, but honestly I don't like gurus. Its like when your a noob and you look up to them then one day you have the chance to talk to them and there complete aholes am not saying all of them are like that just the ones I have met no pointing fingers.
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    • Profile picture of the author my_addict_mind
      i hate the scammers...i abhor them...

      but there are quite a few i really respect...no name dropping here...
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    • Profile picture of the author Zack Lim
      I personally feel that it will have to do with the customer's mindset. Most of the systems that are available online will work if they are willing to invest their time into taking action. I think that the biggest problem that most have is the lack of focus.

      The majority of them will just keep on purchasing many different products but they will not have the discipline to follow the system and take action on it. There are also some people who will attend many different seminars, spend a few thousand dollars on offline coaching program but do nothing with the information that is available.

      I feel that the 'Gurus' must be doing something right or else they will not be so successful.

      Most people do not have the mindset that they are the one responsible for their own results. Some will just push the responsibility to the other people, blame the person that the program is not working and claim that it is a scam.

      I feel that we should give some credits to the 'Gurus' as some of them really provides very good information.

      Just my humble opinion

      Zack
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    If you ask me, the word "guru" in internet marketing defines a person that probably has more experience & more knowledge than the average internet marketer has...

    BUT, unfortunatley there are many "so called gurus" that are not "gurus" at all.

    I follow a lot of "gurus" and I have to say that about 75% of them are not true "gurus"...

    They are just individuals that have a lot of people behind them that will ALWAYS praise them whether they provide good info or not. :/

    For example I'm in a list of a well known "guru" (Not going to mention any names).

    This guy has found success because of his great ability to write good, awesome & convincing reviews...

    All he does is promote affiliate products to his customers...


    What's wrong with that?

    Nothing. If you provide your customers with good products that is...


    Before I promote an e-book or something with my affiliate link, I will personally buy the e-book myself!

    That way I will know for sure if my customers are going to get a good product or not!

    I know that a lot of these so called gurus don't! They just invent a good review e-mail and send it along with their affiliate link through their e-mail list and hope that people will buy.


    So let's go back to the OP's question...

    Do I respect the "gurus"...

    I respect ANY internet marketer that offers value to his customers. He/she could be a guru or the average jane/joe that is still starting out...


    ... It doesn't matter to me.


    If you provide good products to your customers
    that will really help, then yes... you have earned my respect!

    Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Hate is too strong a word. Never bought a product from one that lived up to the hype or price. Rehashed info that you can find for free on Google or cheaper products. I don't trust them and don't buy any of their stuff and don't get on their mailing lists.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

    So, I'm just wondering if you respect the gurus OR your hate the gurus.
    I have mixed feelings.

    On the one hand, most gurus have excellent skills and excellent lessons to teach. I have great respect and admiration for their accomplishments.

    On the other, the vast majority of them are not overtly teaching those skills and lessons! They know what they do isn't what they're teaching, but they keep teaching the same thing anyway.

    If what they're teaching doesn't work, and they know it, and they still keep teaching it because it's something they can sell... I lose respect for them as colleagues and peers.

    Another thing I really dislike about certain gurus is their complete lack of respect for other approaches. You either do it their way, or you're a complete idiot because nothing else works.

    So it goes both ways. There are a couple gurus that continually amaze me, and have earned my respect in spades; Tony Robbins immediately comes to mind. There are others who seem to be constantly skirting the edge of professional ethics, like Robert Kiyosaki, and I get pretty skeptical.
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  • Profile picture of the author Droopy Dawg
    I like a few... I respect them all for their knowledge.

    The ones with cool personalities I gravitate to (Kern, Jamo).
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  • Profile picture of the author seriousmny
    There was one particular guru that I really hated seeing all the time but I had to do a self-check. I had to be honest with myself. I did not like that person because they were doing something I was not doing. They were getting results and they were showing folks they were getting results. I was pouring up the Hater-Aid in a big glass and not putting anything into action to get me to where they were. I have since learned that in order to get from point A to point B...I have to get a plan and implement it. It's easy to sit around all day and talk about who we don't like but are we doing anything to help our bottom line with our business? I don't have time now to think about who I'm hate'n because I'm too busy moving forward with my business plan and itching for success. In fact, I have now taken that envy I had and turned it positive and look at it as something to strive for. I think there is a term that says, "Don't hate, congratulate". I'm gonna thank this person for fueling me with the fire I need to keep moving forward and not stay stuck in one spot with my plans.
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  • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
    This struck me as a bit of a daft question too. I don't believe in IM 'gurus', so the question might as well have been 'Do you respect the Easter bunnies?'.

    Given that I'm more certain of what Easter bunnies are than of what gurus are, I'm assuming they are either very good teachers or very good salespeople (or both). Why would this command respect? Being skillful and being respectable aren't the same thing at all.

    If it turns out that the rabbit holes of the mythical Land Of Guru are populated after all, I doubt that any of their inhabitants will be giving much thought to whether you respect them. The best will be hoping they can teach you something, and the rest will just be hoping they can sell you something.
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  • Profile picture of the author aethak
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        Miriam-Webster definition of guru:
        2 a: a teacher and especially intellectual guide in matters of fundamental concern b: one who is an acknowledged leader or chief proponent c: a person with knowledge or expertise Tina G
        Miriam-Webster apparently hasn't been ripped off by a guru when they wrote that description. They keep their secrets that do work between themselves and sell the overused, worn out crap when it's shelf life is over. I've been in some forums and saw where Gurus get a kick out of all the "lemmings" that buy thier stuff. They know they'll always have an audience with gullible newbies out there to devour their stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul4180
    I think the thing with Guru's they don't give you all the peices to the puzzle, thats why they earn and you dont
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Don't you just hate all the "rehashed" products and marketing these days.

    Bring back the Ford Model T.

    I simply hate driving round in my "rehashed" Audi A6.

    I hate the fact that things get "rehashed" don't you?

    What utter garbage has been spoken.

    Then again perhaps the problem is that it's been the garbage that has been "rehashed".
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    • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
      I think a topic of this nature comes up at least once a week. Let's just make it a sticky thread since it's such a popular topic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
    Originally Posted by Paul4180 View Post

    I think the thing with Guru's they don't give you all the peices to the puzzle, thats why they earn and you dont
    I don't know whether he's a Guru or just an everyday mankini-clad mass hamster breeder, but Kevin Riley's products give you all the pieces to the puzzle and the picture on the box as well. There are other people's products out there that are just as good, as well as a lot of people buying them who think that the pieces will just come together on their own.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jay Greathouse
      personally, I have found the whole process of making and evaluating judgmental positions on other people a total waste of time

      I only notice when someone affects me and then use that insight to learn something about myself.

      as far as learning new technologies, IMHO if one is going to be negative about rebels, revolutionaries, scofflaws, outlaws, anarchists, outcasts and others on the fringes of society then one guarantees self-perpetuated ignorance and willing enslavement to the dictum of enforced sameness and mediocrity

      two insights helped me a great deal:
      1. negativity about anything slowed me down
      2. I can choose not to participate in something or not associate with someone without coming up with a negative judgment to justify my decision
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  • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
    Do I respect the guru's? Not really. Nothing against 'the gurus' but I do respect people who start with nothing and spend months, putting sweat, blood and tears into their ideas making them work. People who go months without earning a dime but yet still have the drive to push on. Those are the guys who I admire and I get a nice warm feeling everytime I read a success story on here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Do I respect the guru's? Not really. Nothing against 'the gurus' but I do respect people who start with nothing and spend months, putting sweat, blood and tears into their ideas making them work. People who go months without earning a dime but yet still have the drive to push on. Those are the guys who I admire and I get a nice warm feeling everytime I read a success story on here.
      And, of course, none of the "gurus" ever had to work like that...


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author ug.robs
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Heard this on a conference call yesterday...

      The subject was selling consulting, and the question put to the interviewee was something like, "Do I have to be some kind of all-knowing, super-successful guru to sell my time and services?"

      The reply was, "Do you remember grade school? To a third grader, a fourth grader is a god."

      As I said in my first post in this thread, I respect their knowledge and their achievements, but there's more than one that would not be welcome in my home...
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Are we all guru's, just that some of us don't know it yet?
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  • Profile picture of the author JonathanBoettcher
    It's funny how there's this strange class of people called "gurus"

    What does it really take to be a guru? Is it depending on list size? Knowledge? Proven results or experience? What others say about you? Having a new or breakthrough strategy or product?

    Really, a lot of the gurus are no better than your average person - they've just got huge lists and make a lot of dough.

    However, just like your average person, amongst this select group you'll find some that stand out above the rest. I try to find those and follow them, and the rest of the "gurus" I just unsubscribe from. Sure, I've gotten value from lower end gurus, but that doesn't mean I have time to follow everyone.

    Love/hate? No. Some I respect, and others I don't.
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  • Profile picture of the author gyar29
    Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

    Hey guys,

    So, I'm just wondering if you respect the gurus OR your hate the gurus.
    More options please.

    How about these:

    1. Have you gained any knowledge from a Guru?
    2. Have you ever been treated fairly by a Guru?
    3. Has a Guru ever played a role in your success?
    4. Do you blame a Guru for your failure?
    5. Do you have the wisdom to pay attention to a Guru?
    6. Do you have the experience to even know who the Gurus are?
    7. Do you wish a Guru knew you?
    8. Do you wish you were a Guru?
    9. Does your opinion of a Guru really make any difference?
    10. How does one "HATE" someone they don't know?

    Gene
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    • Profile picture of the author lozz1960
      if someone has honestly and through hard work made good money online why would you hate them. We all know its not easy to do so good luck to them. Whether they choose to share this information is entirely up to them. Thankfully there are some wonderful people on this forum who are more than happy to share and I personally applaud them
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  • Profile picture of the author JAIDEEP2959
    I respect Ewan chia and Mike filsaime as I got a lot of knowledge about internet marketing from them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
    Real gurus never refer to themselves as a "guru" - they don't need to.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clint
    I respect the gurus for the gurus have paid their dues and they were able to achieve a level of success Only few of us could even imagine. without them we would have no goal to aim. Without them we would have no role models to look up to. Those who do not respect them do not respect themselves.

    This just my personal opinion on the subject
    clint
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
      Originally Posted by Clint View Post

      I respect the gurus for the gurus have paid their dues and they were able to achieve a level of success Only few of us could even imagine. without them we would have no goal to aim. Without them we would have no role models to look up to. Those who do not respect them do not respect themselves.

      This just my personal opinion on the subject
      clint
      There are some genuinely accomplished marketers out there who are role models and got there the hard way - sometimes very hard way.

      John Reese is one.

      Frank Kern may seem a bit eccentric at times, but the guy is a true IM genius, as well as being a genuinely funny and nice guy, and he has been through some gut wrenching times and bounced back stronger than ever.

      These are the guys that deserve the real respect. There are a few others of course.

      Come to think of it - so many of the really successful IM'ers have seen really hard times and went on to see great success it is no coincidence.

      I guess the moral is - falling is part of the game - it is the path to success.

      Most people fall and give up.

      The main issue these days is that there are so many self-professed "gurus" who just want to make a quick buck by sucking in the newbies of which there is an endless supply.

      I think every IM'er needs to serve an apprenticeship in the field of a minimum of 5 years before they have got much of any true value to offer. After 5 years in this game you treat other IM'ers with respect as well, and don't try to rip them off.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        I've been in some forums and saw where Gurus get a kick out of all the "lemmings" that buy their stuff.
        I'll bet I could guess at least one of those forums... Same initials as this one?

        I think it's interesting that so many people use the word to describe a whole class of people, and talk like that whole class was guilty somehow.

        That's an interesting thing to watch.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          I'll bet I could guess at least one of those forums... Same initials as this one?

          I think it's interesting that so many people use the word to describe a whole class of people, and talk like that whole class was guilty somehow.

          That's an interesting thing to watch.


          Paul
          No actually ... they were private, not public forums. Naturally, they aren't going to put that in a public forum for all the "lemmings" to see.

          One of my fav "justifications" I've heard for selling their "make millions overnight in your pajamas" schemes is that the newbies are all out looking for precisely that kind of promise ... the dream of making huge amounts of money with little to no effort ... and if you don't sell them the dream, someone else will. So might as well be you raking in all that "gullible newbie" cash.
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    • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
      Originally Posted by Clint View Post

      I respect the gurus for the gurus have paid their dues and they were able to achieve a level of success Only few of us could even imagine. without them we would have no goal to aim. Without them we would have no role models to look up to. Those who do not respect them do not respect themselves.

      This just my personal opinion on the subject
      clint
      This is so not true, especially the bit I bolded, and quite frankly I think it's more likely to be the people that do believe it that have a problem in the self-respect department. If it were true that we would have no goal to aim for without gurus, how did the first guru get to be one without another guru standing in front of him and holding up the signs? He found his own way, which is what we should all be doing. It's one thing to be learning from the successes and failures of others, but it's another thing entirely to be offering blind respect to the bloke with the biggest bank balance.

      Some of the responses in this thread seem to be bordering more on fear than respect, anyway - much like the fear people used to show to witch doctors in some parts of the world. Being skillful does not automatically make 'gurus' respectable. It is okay not to respect a guru (a label he only has because you've given it to him), and you will not die, your chickens will not die and your PayPal account will still flourish.
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  • Profile picture of the author a1journo
    Hey Desmond,

    I've just spent the last 18 months conducting an investigation about the people who call themselves the 'gurus'. To be honest, with some of what I saw I was pretty shocked - people claiming to be able to help others succeed online, when all they were really doing was lining their own greedy little pockets then refusing to stand by their promises - its sad that there are people out there who behave like that - funnily enough, my resources were able to do alot of digging into their information (backgrounds/claims/ all sorts!) and alot of these people aren't doing as well as they claim...

    On the other hand, I was lucky enough to stumble upon some true gems in the world of IM, and I truly do respect them. Their background stories checked out, their claims could be verified, and the systems that they use and promote really did work (I had a team of people - relative newbies - checking them out, and they were seeing positive results)

    I have been lucky enough to interview these people about their success and how they help others, and have compiled a book which i will be releasing shortly. I think the thing about 'the gurus' is that you really have to find the ones who are gurus, not just the ones who are arrogant B#!!$hitters and wouldn't know the meaning of actually building a successful business online...
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

    Hey guys,

    Awhile ago, one of my students that I'm coaching told me that how much she hate "internet marketing gurus". (no pointing finger here)

    However, I am very fond of the gurus because they have produced amazing products that helped me take my business to the next level.

    So, I'm just wondering if you respect the gurus OR your hate the gurus.
    Neither, because I base it on the individual, not on a group that does NOT exist. Anyone who makes that kind of statement "I hate all gurus" or along those lines is just showing how ignorant they are.

    You've got bad IMers and good ones and everything else inbetween. I personally have a distaste for some of them and there are even a few I consider my good friends.

    And if you can get everyone to agree what an IM "guru" is, then you'll also be able to figure out the winning lotto numbers for this weekend.
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  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

    Hey guys,

    Awhile ago, one of my students that I'm coaching told me that how much she hate "internet marketing gurus". (no pointing finger here)

    However, I am very fond of the gurus because they have produced amazing products that helped me take my business to the next level.

    So, I'm just wondering if you respect the gurus OR your hate the gurus.
    Desmond,

    Who exactly are the Internet Marketing Gurus? It's hard to give you an answer as to whether or not I respect them if I don't know who you are referring to.

    I know many people who claim to be a guru, and many who other people put in that category, but I know of no IM gurus.

    Now I've seen regular people turn into millionaires by working their tail off, networking with other hardworking marketers, and creating a great product or service, and yes, they may know more than the average, but that doesn't mean they are a guru.

    There are buyers, sellers, and complainers - people who have the knowledge, connections, and will to turn a good profit, and those people who complain about these people because they usually don't have the character, knowledge or stamina to accomplish their goals! They'd rather spend precious time and energy trying to justify their own shortcomings by blaming someone else.

    I know when I coach someone, and they bring that subject up, I end up cutting them loose because they don't have the right mindset to be successful. If the coached person wants to be successful, they have to be clear-headed enough to keep moving forward no matter what goes on around them.

    Envy is a real killer in the marketing field if one doesn't use it to push them forward. It's a form of recentment, and there are healthy recentments and harmful recentments. For instance, the other day I was looking up my street and noticed my neighbor cut his grass, and did the trimming. The next thing I saw was that the other neighbors were mowing their grass making the entire block look great.

    What I'm saying is these people were motivated and moving forward because they wanted to keep up with the Jones's.

    And just because one of them decided to mow first and make their lawn look good, doesn't mean they are a guru lol.


    Mary
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  • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
    The vast majority of so called "gurus" have made their money by calling themselves a "guru" and selling expensive products and strategies most of them have never used themselves.

    Not just IM - in every niche people are making fortunes, not from the actual niche, but by representing themselves as a "guru" in that niche to sell "products".

    Also consider this.

    How many of you here doing "niche marketing" are genuine experts in the niche - i.e. based upon many years of experience?

    If you are selling a niche product you must be representing yourself as a "guru" in that niche, otherwise no one would buy the product.

    Are you really a guru in that niche, or did you get the product made on eLance?

    I am not being judgemental here, but if you are going to hit out at so professed "gurus" in IM, then the same rules must apply to all niches.

    The very best and most profitable niches are the ones in which you truly are an expert and one in which you are passionate, and can genuinely benefit other people in the niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author kingmike
    Its amazing how the word guru is used!

    guru or no guru we are all in this to create some success
    and make some extra cash to better our lives.

    personally i don't believe in some people being called "gurus"
    but at the same time these people have some expertise in what
    they do and i respect them for that not for them being gurus.

    respect is not something that can be given just like that
    just because someone is a guru, but we all need to respect
    one another guru or no guru.
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  • Profile picture of the author franchiseshop
    A lot of comments and I really do not want to go through them all so I'm going to respond direct:

    Gurus: Most are egotistical liars. I despise them with a passion. Sign up for ANY self proclaimed gurus newsletters and you will soon be bombarded with daily emails using all sorts of social engineering techniques to persuade you to either buy their product or promoting affiliate links which will sell you rubbish. They are engineered towards the stupid and play on peoples desires to earn money. Nothing more than thieving and many times over are promoting MLM products which are designed to draw unwary people in with promises of riches.

    That is my initial response to the word "guru"

    My second is to ask whether you mean guru or expert? Now an expert I am happy with, they give good advice and rely on their good advice to sell their services. they are not pushy and do not promise the earth, instead they give you good rantional reasons and explanations on what is what and where and how.

    A guru does not do this though. A guru says:

    >>>>>>>>>If you used my NEW UNIQUE TECHNIQUE You WILL EARN £10,00000000 per month working for only 2 hours PER WEEK<<<<<<<<


    Today this offer is open to only 99 people, oops, now 98, 97, get yours quick! Yesterday we offered this at £10,000, today only £20!!!!

    If this sounds like a website you are promoting and you THINK you are a guru, think again, you are just a part of that section of the internet that rips people off.

    Hope I did not upset anyone with that ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Franchiseshop,

      No, not upset at all here. But I did notice you said -

      affiliate links which will sell you rubbish
      They are engineered towards the stupid
      you are just a part of that section of the internet that rips people off
      ...and that you make money on your site ('UK's most ethical franchise directory') by promoting McDonald's franchises. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author franchiseshop
        Indeed I do, and many others, and we vet our franchises well before listing them

        Show me a poor McDonald's Franchise owner please?

        In franchising, like with any small business, success is not guaranteed, however I can assure you that there is a far higher success rate in opening a franchise than there is in setting up your own small business, and, with a franchise such as McDonald's, their reputation in the franchise industry is one of low turnover of franchisees, showing that most that buy into them go on to run successful businesses for years to come, far higher than most small businesses and not remotely in the same league as the crapola that "gurus" promote with their undesirable products and in some cases "business coaching" services.

        Barking up the wrong tree there mate, sorry. ;-(
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Franchiseshop,

          Barking up the wrong tree there mate, sorry. ;-(
          I disagree.

          Show me a poor McDonald's Franchise owner please?
          The above statement suggests to me that when you talk about ethics, you are being selective and only applying it to the product that your direct customer purchases from you but you yourself made the distinction that if someone promotes a misleading guru site, then they are guilty too -

          If this sounds like a website you are promoting and you THINK you are a guru, think again, you are just a part of that section of the internet that rips people off.
          I wasn't casting aspersions on the quality of the franchises that you sell (although I correctly predicted to myself that you would adopt this line, not least as I noticed your position in the company) as I have no way of knowing what their quality is like.

          I was referring to the quality and ethicality of the products that those McDonald's franchises sell to their customers. It was ironic that you talked about 'rubbish' for the 'stupid' that is a 'rip off' - which is why I quoted what I did.

          There are other reasons, which are related to the way you presented your argument. For example -

          >>>>>>>>>If you used my NEW UNIQUE TECHNIQUE You WILL EARN £10,00000000 per month working for only 2 hours PER WEEK<<<<<<<<

          Today this offer is open to only 99 people, oops, now 98, 97, get yours quick! Yesterday we offered this at £10,000, today only £20!!!!
          Show me a site that makes this promise. There isn't one out there. So is gross exaggeration acceptable, as long as it's only used to bolster your side of the argument? Kind of contradicts what you're saying about ethical marketing, no?

          The main thing you are emphasizing in your made up example is the basic marketing tool of using scarcity. And anyone who calls themselves a marketer knows that McDonalds like their marketing a little more extreme than that - like targetting toddlers with subliminal clown-based advertising and free-toy-bribes in order to indoctrinate them at an apallingly young age in order to sell them unhealthy junk food.

          That's my point. I'm sure the franchises you sell are very profitable for the buyers and that your franchisees are very happy with their purchases.

          That wasn't my point. My point was that you're not exempt from -

          If this sounds like a website you are promoting and you THINK you are a guru, think again, you are just a part of that section of the internet that rips people off.
          Reworded -

          If this -

          targetting toddlers with subliminal clown-based advertising and free-toy-bribes in order to indoctrinate them at an apallingly young age in order to sell them unhealthy junk food.
          ...sounds like the marketing techniques of the companies that you indirectly promote and make a profit by selling their franchises, then you are just a part of that section of society that makes money indirectly from the actions of others who target toddlers and children for profit by teaching them habits that are fundamentally incorrect and unhealthy - which is proven by obesity and health statistics - in my opinion, a crime far worse than just 'ripping people off' - IE - fully grown, responsible adults.

          I pick my barking trees carefully, thankyou ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author franchiseshop
    OK. I'll reply to that tomorrow

    Beer/Coat/Town
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Franchiseshop,

      OK. I'll reply to that tomorrow

      Beer/Coat/Town
      Good sport! That's the best answer I've had to one of my enquiring but slightly argumentative propositions in a long time.

      I would do the same, but I had more than my fair share of beer/town/coat in my younger, more sprightly days.

      But I have coldies in the fridge instead, so - Cheers!
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
    My experience of those that like to think of themselves as IM gurus over the years is that they will find a new strategy, thrash it to death to make as much as possible, and when it no longer works they package it up and sell it as a "product", aided and abetted by the "good 'ol boys" guru network.

    The main reason the big names make so much is because between them they have hundreds of thousands of names on their lists, and they cross promote their products.

    I am not saying that is a bad thing at all - it is good and effective IM - and good luck to them.

    But at the same time:

    Caveat emptor, quia ignorare non debuit quod jus alienum emit.

    "Let a purchaser beware, for he ought not to be ignorant of the nature of the property which he is buying from another party."

    The fact is, the onus and responsibility is always on the buyer, not the seller. If the gurus still find a huge market for their products, who can blame them for feeding that market?
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Root
    I listen, I evaluate, I apply if the information got this far.

    I don't respect gurus any more or less than I do my fellow human being. They are just the same as every one of us. Dudes who are trying to make their living. If they give you advice, evaluate if there's any sense in it and if there is, apply it to your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thaddaeus T. Hogg
    Allrighty, it is shore nuff time we be a puttin this here baby to bed! Jest to put a finish to this here discussion bout gurus, Imma gonna be a givin yew an opinion from a real live gooroo...ME! Yep, ole Thad is a bonefied, time honored gooroo. Whut makes me a gooroo yew be a askin? Jest this...

    1. I be a makin over one hunnert dollar each and every month.

    2. I dun made a record breakin twenty five dollar IN ONE DAY!

    3. When folk like Mankini Riley, Ole Geyser Leatherman, Crazy Sue Ann, Nursey Kim Standerline, Drinkin Rod Cortez, Caveman Elmer Hurlstone, ex military man John Rogers, thut yung whipper snapper Jeremy Kelsall an his right handed man Don need advisin, jest who dew yew thank them folks be a callin? Yep, they dun be a callin ole Thad! I hast dun made them whut they are taday.. well, don't be a balmin ole Thad fer thut thar mankini thang, thut thar is jest cause ole Riley is pervecated!

    AND lastest but not leastest, Paul Meyers jest plain likes ole Thad! Now iffin thut thar don't be a makin a folk a gooroo then Imma three legged, one horned horney toad whut don't be a havin enuf blood to even spit in a folks eyeball!

    Nowthen, beens I dun stablished my kerdentials let me be a tellin yew thut a gooroo dun be a needin luv jest like all uther folks! It shore dew be a gittin lonesome at the top and us folk jest need a little bit a kindness. Dadgumit, it jest plane HURTS when yew folks starta talkin bout hows us gooroos is dishonest, greedy, selfish and jest rite down jackassy! IT HURTS I TELL YA!!!

    I dun been hurt sew much I set down an dun writ a song bout it an Imma gonna share it wiff yew afore I be a recordin it...

    The Hurtin' Gooroo
    by Thaddaeus T. Hogg (the Hillbilly Marketeer)
    (sung to the tune of The Beverly Hillbillys)

    Now come an listen to my storie bout a feller named Thad
    a poor ole gooroo who wus a treated awful bad
    dun made a lot of money as an internet marketeer
    but the warrior forum folks jested wanted to kick his rear

    real bad like
    they didn't like him
    he was a gooroo

    Now the furst thang yew knowed ole Thads a feelin bad
    he tried to help the folks but they thought thut they'd been had
    he said "Imma leavin here an I ain't a never comin back"
    cause them folks in the warrior forum jest keep a talkin smack

    bad mouthin
    runnin us gooroos down
    givin us low self esteem

    Now it be time to say so long to Thad the friendly gooroo
    he dun got tired of bein treated like a pile of doodoo
    He's dun wore down and he's a feelin lmity tired
    but iffin yew folk jest keep on complainin your a gonna get Paul Meyered!

    He'll kick butt
    bad dude
    chews em up and spits em out

    Onct my recordin hits the big time, I'll be a havin some autographin sessions but I ain't givin any of yew gooroo bashers my John Henry! Now thut dun be all I gots ta say cause I gotta gits out back an be a givin the hoggs a sloppin!

    Ya'll come on back now yew here?
    Signature
    Thaddaeus T. Hogg, The Hillbilly Marketeer
    http://www.hillbillymarketer.com
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    No one admits to being a guru anymore. What's funny, and maybe ironic, is that being "anti-guru" has become more than anything else a marketing strategy. I can't count how many sales pages I've read that start off with something like, "Are you tired of being lied to by the gurus?" The implication is that *this* marketer (the one writing the copy) is an average Joe, not an elitist guru, so we should listen to him. Many marketers have made a career with this anti-guru, outsider image. Of course it's all silly, who is and isn't a guru. Whether you're dealing with an IM superstar or someone releasing their first product, you have to carefully consider what is being offered and see past the hype.
    Signature
    Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mawardee(A)
    It's hard to make all people to love you.
    It's a normal life.

    So just do what you think right.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy1750
    Most of them no.

    Am on many guru lists and it's just affiliate offer after affiliate offer. They have a huge list and a reputation but that's it. Makes me think of DJ's actually - in the UK the "best" DJs are very well known but all they do is play and endorse music created by other very talented artists and lap up all the credit. Sure, some of them may have been average musicians in the past, but all they can do now is play records.

    Also subscribed to a paid course course created by an up and coming guru recently and, let's just say that the SEO Module was very similar to a lot of the content in last year's 30DC!

    There are however some exceptions:

    Paul Myers - pure genius.

    Dan Raine - my personal favorite. Dedicated to (and spends a FORTUNE on) testing and establishing and sharing the up and coming techniques that work. EVERYBODY is about a year behind Dan Raine (apart from those that subscribe to the Immediate Edge...like me!). Now, Dan Raine's knowledge is expensive - $100 a month in fact which over time works out more expensive that Mass Control! However, invest $100 a month and get huge returns - pretty good deal for me!

    And, to be fair, a few others.

    So, to come to some kind of conclusion a lot of gurus are nothing more than celebrities - the DJs of the internet marketing world. However, there are a select few that are still Virtuoso musicians and these are certainly worth listening to.

    Thanks,

    Andy
    Signature

    Not trying to sell you anything :-)

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  • Profile picture of the author Thaddaeus T. Hogg
    No one admits to being a guru anymore.
    Dadburnit, dew I havta be a sayin it again... I AM A DADBLAME GOOROO AN I'M DURN SHORE PROUD OF IT! IFFIN I HAFTA BE A PROVIN IT, I'LL BE A PUTTIN UP SOME SCREEN SHOTS. JEST BE A GIVEN ME A FEW MINUTES TO BE A DRAWIN THEM UP! How many dollars wud it be a takin me to prove Imma gooroo and I will be a makin... err, writin... sumpin up fer ya!
    Signature
    Thaddaeus T. Hogg, The Hillbilly Marketeer
    http://www.hillbillymarketer.com
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    • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
      NO, yes that's a plain english NO..

      So far every experience is that they care nothing only about money.

      AND what do I have to say about anyonyone that doesn't even care what other people have to say.

      It's a plain and simple... why bother if you don't care?
      Signature

      Owner bestfivereviewed.com

      Started this stuff 2009. Time is what will teach you the skills you need.

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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Robinson
    Originally Posted by Desmond Ong View Post

    So, I'm just wondering if you respect the gurus OR your hate the gurus.
    I try to learn something from everyone I meet, gurus or not. Some of my best ideas have come in the hallway while speaking to non-gurus at guru "SuperConferences".

    The term "guru" as it relates to internet marketing is elusive. Just how do you become a guru?

    I've thought about it and think it has parallels to televangelists. There are hundreds of thousands of pastors and priests in this country and yet only ten are a household name and are thus, "Televangelists".

    But what do these people do that others don't?

    They pimp each other.

    Oral Roberts has Benny Hinn on his show and says that Benny is the next Oral Roberts. Benny Hinn has Paula White (she's hot!) on his show and says that she has a special anointing on her. Paula White has T.D. Jakes on her show and says that he is her father in the faith. T.D. Jakes tells his customers -- errr, congregation -- that he was born again after attending an Oral Roberts tent meeting.

    It's a freaking Michael Campbell mininet!

    Carl Galletti says that Michel Fortin is the best copywriter in the world. Michel says that Jim Edwards told him to start a blog. Jim says that Armand Morin told him to use Wordpress. Armand thanks Carl Galletti for giving him a stage to prothelitise to the people.

    A guru is a guru because they (through their business partners) tell you they are gurus!

    Suckers!
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    • Profile picture of the author eCovers4uGfx
      Dead set waste of time following most of them, sadly though there are loads of lazy buggers out there that seek a quick alternative to doing the hard yards themselves.

      I always refer back to the old saying '' if it really works why would they be selling it ''

      Do yourself a favor & choose your own directions, leave your own path of success & forget the guru's.

      My two bobs worth!
      Signature
      "Design is intelligence made visible"
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      • Profile picture of the author Brian Robinson
        Originally Posted by eCovers4uGfx View Post

        I always refer back to the old saying '' if it really works why would they be selling it ''
        Well, having been involved with the Traffic Equalizer phenomenon and even Howie's "Google Crush" method, some times "gurus" are short sighted and spill the beans way too soon.

        The TE method was so profitable and effective that Google had to modify their base algorithm to counteract it. I'm sure Jeff is fat and happy with what he made from the software but can you just imagine how much wealthier he would have been had he kept the software to himself and outsourced TE site building for two more years? Every site in Google would have been one of his sites if he hadn't raised his hand and been noticed by the Big G.
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        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
          Originally Posted by Brian Robinson View Post

          Well, having been involved with the Traffic Equalizer phenomenon and even Howie's "Google Crush" method, some times "gurus" are short sighted and spill the beans way too soon.

          The TE method was so profitable and effective that Google had to modify their base algorithm to counteract it. I'm sure Jeff is fat and happy with what he made from the software but can you just imagine how much wealthier he would have been had he kept the software to himself and outsourced TE site building for two more years? Every site in Google would have been one of his sites if he hadn't raised his hand and been noticed by the Big G.
          I am a business partner of Jeff and I wrote the TE manuals.

          TE will go down in history as a pivotal, defining product, as will Jeff for coming up with it. Jeff is a great guy, as well as a visionary - one of the old school.

          Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Would Jeff have made more by using it himself? In the short term yes, but Google would have gone beyond allowing that sort of content anyway sooner or later.

          I think Jeff did it more or less right but, with hindsight, it may have been better to use it for a year and then release it as a product.

          The days of "products" to trick the system are over.

          Now it is all about creating a proper online business based upon proven business and marketing principles that have always worked - online and offline.

          Above all - decide on a single niche, preferably one that you know and are passionate about, and make it your own - simple as that.
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  • Profile picture of the author milan
    I agree the question is completely ridiculous.

    However, people do ridiculous things in their life, and at times act very irrationally. Such general questions and claims about (undefined group of) "gurus" do appear everywhere. So even those who "hate" gurus must've searched for "gurus:, before they found them and got disappointed in them.

    My point is, many people search for gurus. This is a guru business...
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Allen
    lol - the mental image of that is entertaining in a strange sort of way!
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  • Profile picture of the author moreishi
    No, I don't hate them because even though I am in the starting level they give me knowledge on how to make money online. In that section is already a big help. So there is no reason the hate them!
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  • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
    Hey,

    I don't think anyone has to hate the Gurus.
    The gurus are just ordinary people like you and me
    who have reached a massive success in their business.

    however, just take a look at Frank Kern's last launch,
    this guy is fooling around all day long. He is just a "dude"
    and he doesn't hide it at all.

    Gurus are just ordinary people, no need to hate them.

    Igor
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  • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
    Frank Kern is really a model for what it is all about.

    Beach front home in South CA - which he definitely earned - enjoys his surfing, and his family - to which he is dedicated - and to chilling out with other IM'ers while cooking up the next great product.

    Many people do not know that Frank was virtually wiped out by the federal trade commission a few years ago - totally unjustly as well. Yet instead of licking his wounds, feeling sorry for himself and giving up, he just bounced back bigger and better than ever, having learned from the experience.

    If there is one great attribute that everyone can learn from Frank, apart from brilliant IM, it is never to take life too seriously.

    We are here on Earth for one reason - to have fun while we learn and enjoy life as a free human being. Frank definitely does all that.

    Also, having fun and enjoying life is directly related to your ability to do it. The more fun and enjoyment you experience, the more you will experience.

    You know - I really do respect people like Eben Pagan, John Reese, Mike Filsaime and a few others, but for me Frank Kern is the archetypal IM'er who most encapsulates what IM should be all about as well as life generally.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Hating/despising/dissing the gurus is often a stage along the IM journey.

      If you don't push past this you are doomed to becoming a bitter and miserable failure.

      Gurus, good or bad, just ARE.

      Tornadoes, floods and snowstorms just ARE.

      Lions, sharks and snakes just ARE.

      Don't waste your energy obsessing about something you can't change.

      Yes, some gurus are not nice people.

      Yes, some gurus have questionable ethics.

      Yes, some gurus don't care about other people.

      Now, in the above three sentences substitute the word "gurus" for one of the following:

      people
      men
      women
      lawyers
      politicians
      doctors
      teachers
      soldiers

      and you could have equally valid statements. This is just how things are. Let go of it and move on.

      The Serenity Prayer might help

      God grant me the serenity
      To accept the things I cannot change;
      Courage to change the things I can;
      And wisdom to know the difference.


      Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
    And again - anyone making eBooks in a particular niche is almost certainly presenting themselves as a "guru" in that niche.

    Are you really?

    Or have you simply identified a niche and had someone on eLance write a book about it?

    As Martin indicated, people must get beyond the judgement and the labels and things you cannot change, learn to accept it as human nature, and focus on the positives, and the creation of your own IM business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Desray
    There is only a few so called Guru's out there that I can trust
    Signature

    Des Smith

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