Am I the only one not buying it?

18 replies
I seldom buy a product that doesn't offer a blanket (if you aren't satisfied for any reason, you can return it) kind of guarantee. It's a risk reversal strategy and if you tell me I must implement a strategy that I haven't even seen yet, in order to test and see if it works, before I can get a refund, you aren't reversing my risk. I want the ability to return a product if I read it and it doesn't fit into my business model, or if it's just crap.

I understand that it's frustrating for the content provider when it seems like the end user didn't even give it a try, or if they are just asking for a refund and going to use it anyway, but I think the sales you lose with a 'strings attached' guarantee probably out weigh any of these problems.

I think this is one of those situations where you're stepping over dollars to pick up nickles.
#buying #tip #wrong #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Blanket guarantees do increase sales but there are some products
    that you cannot give that guarantee (refund) for such as software that
    cannot be disabled. There are many product categories that
    cannot be returned "once opened". The business owner must
    weigh the loss in income from not offering a guarantee to offering
    one where the buyer can still continue using your product after
    the refund. Of course most digital products fall in this category.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author ColdWritingLLC
    Originally Posted by Justinfm View Post

    I want the ability to return a product if I read it and it doesn't fit into my business model, or if it's just crap.

    I understand that it's frustrating for the content provider when it seems like the end user didn't even give it a try, or if they are just asking for a refund and going to use it anyway, but I think the sales you lose with a 'strings attached' guarantee probably out weigh any of these problems.

    I think this is one of those situations where you're stepping over dollars to pick up nickles.
    It's not an if, you said so yourself, you are using it anyways. Reading the content is what you're paying for - you aren't paying for having your opinion validated retroactively.

    Can you buy a video game, play it for a week and then return it because you like the quality? No, they only accept unopened games. Can you go to a concert and stay til the last song only to get your money back because you thought the light show wasn't impressive enough? What about a bouquet of flowers, can you get a refund from a florist because they didn't smell the way you thought they would?

    How am I stepping over dollars to pick up nickles when you refuse to pay for content you've already been given? Because you bought something on speculation instead of research and now you want me to just trust that the information you were exposed to is just not going to be used by you? How about you come let me stay at your house for a night and eat your food and take whatever I want as long as I say I'll replace everything and probably give you a little cash? What, don't be stepping over dollars to make nickles here - I just said that I'd give you money.

    I offer no refunds, no money back guarantees, and the only time I have ever offered them was when I was forced to as a terms of Clickbank's platform. Oddly enough that's the only time I've lost money a product launch. But surely you must know more about the business than myself and then scores of other people who would say the exact same thing.

    You, as the customer, are paying for a product. I, as the person you are paying for that product, then deliver what you purchased, information. You aren't paying for the PDF. You aren't paying for the book. You aren't paying for the CD. You aren't paying for the canvas. You are paying for the content and you received the content.
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    • Profile picture of the author Justinfm
      Originally Posted by ColdWritingLLC View Post

      It's not an if, you said so yourself, you are using it anyways. Reading the content is what you're paying for - you aren't paying for having your opinion validated retroactively.
      People aren't buying information, they're buying the promises of what the information will help them learn to do.

      How am I stepping over dollars to pick up nickles when you refuse to pay for content you've already been given? Because you bought something on speculation instead of research and now you want me to just trust that the information you were exposed to is just not going to be used by you? How about you come let me stay at your house for a night and eat your food and take whatever I want as long as I say I'll replace everything and probably give you a little cash? What, don't be stepping over dollars to make nickles here - I just said that I'd give you money.
      Either you don't understand the concept of risk reversal or you are ignoring it. If having a stronger guarantee increases sales by 20%, and increases returns by 5%, that's a net win. If you have a poor quality product, and/or you've over promised and under delivered, then your returns will be higher, if you provide good quality content you'll only pickup a few extra 'free loaders' who buy and return, and you can filter them out in the future.

      While it's true that you can't put a digital product back in the box, it's also true that the marginal cost of selling one more item, is next to nothing. This makes a risk reversal strategy a must for marketing.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Slightly off-topic, but not much...

        Regarding the Gamestop written policy, how would I know the game is defective if I didn't open it and try to play it?:confused:

        It also sounds like the individual store wisely has some discretion in the matter. There's a big difference between someone buying a gift and having to return it because the recipient already had it, and a serial refunder.

        I have no problem if an individual seller wants to put strings on a guarantee (must show proof the directions were followed, etc.). That's their privilege. It's my privilege to decide that's a risk I choose not to take, and spend my money elsewhere.

        Same with the "no refunds, full stop" policy. It's fair for the seller to spell out such a policy before I lay my money down, and fair for me to factor that into my decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author Coby
    As a customer I don't really care either way about money back guarantees as I rarely refund a product...

    However, as a product creator I offer them, but for a very different reason...

    I offer a guarantee so that I can filter my lists...

    If some one refunds a product of mine I will remove them from my list and also add them to the blacklists at the payment processors I use so that they can't buy another product from me and cause me more headache in the future.

    Of course there are exceptions to this rule - like when one of my software won't work on their computer, etc.

    But generally speaking - I think guarantees are just good business. They offer a piece of mind to the customer and do help to increase sales.

    Following this "strategy" I have been able to keep my refunds to a minimum and also get rid of the "serial refunders". My highest refund rate to date is on my Clickbank product which is still currently under 8% which I consider a success.

    However, if you are buying and refunding a lot of products then I think there is another issue altogether. I think you should quit buying products and focus on one thing - only buy products related to that "one thing". Stick to one thing for at least 6 months and I think you'll probably stop buying as many products altogether. This was true for me at least.

    Cheers,
    Coby
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  • Profile picture of the author Teravel
    Originally Posted by Justinfm View Post

    I seldom buy a product that doesn't offer a blanket (if you aren't satisfied for any reason, you can return it) kind of guarantee. It's a risk reversal strategy and if you tell me I must implement a strategy that I haven't even seen yet, in order to test and see if it works, before I can get a refund, you aren't reversing my risk. I want the ability to return a product if I read it and it doesn't fit into my business model, or if it's just crap.
    As always with threads of this topic, I refer to...


    Originally Posted by ColdWritingLLC View Post

    Can you buy a video game, play it for a week and then return it because you like the quality? No, they only accept unopened games.
    Not to toss gas on an open flame, but Gamestop gives a 14 day no questions return policy, opened or not. I know because last week my mother purchased Skyrim for my father for the holidays. She unwrapped the game to remove the price tag, wrapped it in giftwrap, and gave it to him early so he could play. After opening the game, he let her know he already had a copy. She returned it the next day, completely open, and without any issue.
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by Teravel View Post

      Not to toss gas on an open flame, but Gamestop gives a 14 day no questions return policy, opened or not. I know because last week my mother purchased Skyrim for my father for the holidays. She unwrapped the game to remove the price tag, wrapped it in giftwrap, and gave it to him early so he could play. After opening the game, he let her know he already had a copy. She returned it the next day, completely open, and without any issue.
      Did they charge a "restocking fee"? Also Gamestop sells used games, so this
      may be another reason why they take back an opened game.

      Original price - restocking fee + used price = more profit for us.

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      • Profile picture of the author Teravel
        Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

        Did they charge a "restocking fee"? Also Gamestop sells used games, so this
        may be another reason why they take back an opened game.

        Original price - restocking fee + used price = more profit for us.

        -Ray Edwards
        No restocking fee, no hassle, no questions. She went in and walked out with every penny she spent on the game.
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    • Profile picture of the author Copeland Becker
      Originally Posted by Teravel View Post

      Not to toss gas on an open flame, but Gamestop gives a 14 day no questions return policy, opened or not. I know because last week my mother purchased Skyrim for my father for the holidays. She unwrapped the game to remove the price tag, wrapped it in giftwrap, and gave it to him early so he could play. After opening the game, he let her know he already had a copy. She returned it the next day, completely open, and without any issue.
      Looks like you just caught them in a good mood. I went a checked out their return policy. Here it is:

      Pre-owned Guarantee

      This pre-owned product has been carefully tested, and is guaranteed to work. If you are not completely satisfied, simply return the product within 7 days for your money back or identical exchange within 30 days of purchase.

      New product returns

      Returned product(s) must be in the original packaging and include any manuals, cabling and accessories in sellable condition. We reserve the right to limit returns to unopened or defective products. Defective product(s) will be replaced with a like item, upon return. Terms and conditions of manufacturer's warranty apply to defective video games systems and computer hardware after 30 days.

      We do not accept returns of:

      Any product(s) returned more than 30 days from the date on the packing slip.
      Any product(s) that has been opened (taken out of its plastic wrap).
      Any product(s) not in its original condition.
      Any product(s) that is damaged, played, or is missing parts.
      Any product(s) that were sold as part of a bundle, unless the bundle is returned complete.
      Please do not mail us product(s) that do not meet the return criteria listed above, as we do not issue refunds for non-qualifying items and cannot return the items to you.
      Gamestop Return Policy
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  • Profile picture of the author datingworld
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Posts like this make me sooooo happy I'm not in the MMO niche.
    Lucky you
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  • Profile picture of the author onlyHope
    If you want to sell me something you need to figure out the way to protect your product so I could test it first.
    If I want to buy something from you, it’s my job to check if I can return that product if I don’t like it. If I can’t, I simply won’t buy it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Teravel
      Originally Posted by onlyHope View Post

      If you want to sell me something you need to figure out the way to protect your product so I could test it first.
      This illogical thinking is why Paypal doesn't give returns for digital products. Sellers are NOT REQUIRED to let you test anything. Nor should they be.

      Yes, it can work to let people test things. AVG gives a free trial of their full anti-malware suite to show how useful it is. After a specified time, the software locks specific features and continues to work using the "Free Version".

      Do you really think someone wanting a refund for a PDF file (or Zip, Rar, Plugins, Themes, etc) is going to delete that file? Honestly?

      Do you really think someone wanting a refund is going to forget whatever information you just sold to them?

      Is it possible that these same people, that purchase and refund informational products, are the ones responsible for giving away these products in Blackhat Forums?

      If you think people are going to delete or forget the information, I have some serious news for you. There's a picture of you in the dictionary next to the word Gullible. It's a good likeness of you. Go check.
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      • Profile picture of the author onlyHope
        Originally Posted by Teravel View Post

        This illogical thinking is why Paypal doesn't give returns for digital products. Sellers are NOT REQUIRED to let you test anything. Nor should they be.

        Yes, it can work to let people test things. AVG gives a free trial of their full anti-malware suite to show how useful it is. After a specified time, the software locks specific features and continues to work using the "Free Version".

        You can't do this with Informational Products.

        Do you really think someone wanting a refund for a PDF file (or Zip, Rar, Plugins, Themes, etc) is going to delete that file? Honestly?

        Do you really think someone wanting a refund is going to forget whatever information you just sold to them?

        Is it possible that these same people, that purchase and refund informational products, are the ones responsible for giving away these products in Blackhat Forums?

        If you think people are going to delete or forget the information, I have some serious news for you. There's a picture of you in the dictionary next to the word Gullible. It's a good likeness of you. Go check.
        You clearly have no clue what you’re talking about. My post was very simple and to the point. I never said that sellers are required to do something. If there is a way to offer a free trial/refund/test and that doesn’t affect their product in any way then they should do it. If they can’t offer any of that then it’s up to me to do a research and find out how reliable that product is and should I buy it. If non of those two are met then simply I don’t have to buy it.

        Originally Posted by Teravel View Post

        Do you really think someone wanting a refund for a PDF file (or Zip, Rar, Plugins, Themes, etc)
        Actually all plugin and theme providers offer online testing of all of their products!
        Same with Zip and PDF files. Many sellers let you read first 30-50 pages of any book online before you buy it. That’s called testing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Teravel
          Originally Posted by onlyHope View Post

          If you want to sell me something you need to figure out the way to protect your product so I could test it first.
          The same line as before. Quoted, as before.

          However you take it, this line is wrong. Just because you are insecure about a product doesn't mean the product owner has to hold your hand with a Money Back Guarantee.

          Originally Posted by onlyHope View Post

          You clearly have no clue what you’re talking about. My post was very simple and to the point. I never said that sellers are required to do something.
          Doesn't your quoted comment above state "YOU NEED FIND A WAY TO PROTECT YOUR PRODUCT SO I COULD TEST IT"

          Before you say someone doesn't understand what you are saying, make sure you go back and read what you wrote.

          I must say... Good call on removing the laughable threat of knocking out my teeth.
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    Originally Posted by Justinfm View Post

    I want the ability to return a product if I read it and it doesn't fit into my business model, or if it's just crap.
    I wondering, how exactly do you 'return' a digital product such as a E-Book or a Software? How exactly do you return knowledge? Do you wipe your brain clean some how? Do you pack up the electrons that carried the digital information to your computer and send them back?

    First let me say that I sell software, and I do offer a refund policy (30 days). However with digital products buyers cant 'return' the product. They can get there money back but they can never return the product.

    Believe me to, people abuse this all the time.

    -I have had buyers buy a software, download it and then within 3 minutes email me for a refund.

    -I have had buyers buy a software, download it and then ask for a refund, but STILL post a great review of how much they love it.

    -I have had buyers buy a software, download it, ask for a refund, and then later ask me if they can be an affiliate for it because of 'how great it is'.

    -I have had buyers buy a software, not even download it, ask for a refund and then later email me asking how they can get there download that they bought.

    Its this kind of abuse that has lead some sellers to not offer a refund policy. Some like myself still do have a refund policy, and just consider these people the 'cost of doing business' but some sellers, selling legitimate and high quality products are of the very fair mind set of, since you cant give it back, there is no refund period.

    Keep that in mind the next time your considering not buying a product because there is no refund period.

    As for your whole argument of "If I get 20% more sales and 5% more refunds Im in the black." Thats a lot of guesstimation there, might make sense and might be a good business strategy. But then again money is not everything and some sellers dont want to be stolen from (and buying with the intent of asking for a refund, but keeping the product is theft) Also you have to consider that 5% more refunds looks bad to your affiliates.

    Either way its up to the buyer to decide what they want to offer. There are pro's / cons of each tactic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

      -I have had buyers buy a software, download it and then ask for a refund, but STILL post a great review of how much they love it.

      -I have had buyers buy a software, download it, ask for a refund, and then later ask me if they can be an affiliate for it because of 'how great it is'.
      You are not learning your lesson. This says that you should be offering
      review copies of your product to avoid all this hassle.

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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by Justinfm View Post

    I think this is one of those situations where you're stepping over dollars to pick up nickles.
    Probably true in some cases, but on the other hand a lot of buyers don't understand investment. They're too cheap to invest in their mind, and many who do fail to understand that not every investment has an equal payout.

    When you invest in your mind you invest in your future. With some investments it's hard to see the immediate value. However, there can be hidden value that only becomes apparent later, once a certain level of knowledge or skill is attained.
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