Is this an old MYTH or is it Actually Possible and Where?

43 replies
Hi Warriors,

First, let me start by saying if you don't have anything helpful to say and want to say something like "Just fork out the money or you're not really serious about your business!", then please don't comment at all. I've had this happen in the past when asking for input on a topic and it doesn't help me. Besides, one of the Admins deleted those posts anyway.

As many Warriors know, I have been dealing with a LOT of serious health issues for a LONG time, now. Things have gotten so bad in the past that now, my wife (Sharlene) has had to take over by diving in head first without knowing anything at all (and has done great in my place) and I had to try to help with any of the technical stuff (or we did have a very close friend/mentor for awhile until he suffered a major heart attack and passed away suddenly).

Anyway, the point of my thread is this...After having 8 Surgeries over 17 Months and one more coming up in January, we have absolutely $0 Budget to hire a programmer for a specific product for Wordpress that we Desperately Need for ourselves, but also see a ?Huge Market Potential for as an "Evergreen" Product!

I remember early in our Internet Marketing Careers, in the good old days when things were much simpler, that MANY, MANY Products I read said you can usually find a Programmer that will be willing to Partner with you for a percentage of the Profits if you cannot afford to hire a programmer outright! I've even read a few more recent products that state the same thing.

Is this just a MYTH? Maybe, just wishful thinking?

If it's NOT a Myth, where do these particular programmers hang out?

I've talked to a few that won't even start a project without a huge deposit and the rest after the product is finished.

I've asked a few "seasoned" Warriors for their insight or ideas.

I'm wondering if it's just a Line that I've fallen for, even after all these years!

If all our funds didn't go to help buy some doctors a lavish vacation or new car, then it might be able to invest into hiring a programmer straight out...it would be better for me in the long run, because I expect the product to be a High Seller for a Long Time to come. I'd make more if I didn't have to split profits with anyone except affiliates.

Any helpful comments or ideas would be greatly appreciated!

I hope every Warrior has a Happy New Year!

Thank You,

Scott Raven
#help needed #myth #programmer
  • Profile picture of the author DeborahDera
    I am not sure what other advice to give here, but wondered if you'd tried the Warrior Joint Ventures portion of the forums here? It's further down in the list of categories.
    Warrior Joint Ventures
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Scott,

      You might also try these sections of the WF . . .

      Members looking to hire you

      and

      Warriors for Hire

      There might be some help available right here.

      Good luck,

      Steve
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      Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
      SteveBrowneDirect

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      • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        Scott,

        You might also try these sections of the WF . . .

        Members looking to hire you

        and

        Warriors for Hire

        There might be some help available right here.

        Good luck,

        Steve
        Thanks Steve.

        I've been looking through those sections every few days. I've even contacted several, but found no interest so far.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        You've had that many surgeries over a short time, and your prior adviser had a heart attack? Maybe I should think twice about answering here...

        [That was meant as a joke. If the humor doesn't resonate, I apologize for the attempt.]

        Such opportunities do still exist. Unfortunately, there isn't a "place where these folks hang out", as there are too many people looking to exploit them. You'll either have to make the connection yourself or find a partner that can connect you with your opposite number having the same problem.

        Consider the TV show "Shark Tank", or it's UK cousin, "Dragon's Den". Entrepreneurs pitch their ideas to the Sharks/Dragons, looking for an investment. The rules of the show require them to make a 'money for equity' offer, but it seems that the best of the lot are more interested in connections than anything else.

        Another option might be some kind of licensing deal with one of the companies that makes commercial WP apps/plugins.

        Good luck to you...
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        • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          You've had that many surgeries over a short time, and your prior adviser had a heart attack? Maybe I should think twice about answering here...

          [That was meant as a joke. If the humor doesn't resonate, I apologize for the attempt.]

          Such opportunities do still exist. Unfortunately, there isn't a "place where these folks hang out", as there are too many people looking to exploit them. You'll either have to make the connection yourself or find a partner that can connect you with your opposite number having the same problem.

          Consider the TV show "Shark Tank", or it's UK cousin, "Dragon's Den". Entrepreneurs pitch their ideas to the Sharks/Dragons, looking for an investment. The rules of the show require them to make a 'money for equity' offer, but it seems that the best of the lot are more interested in connections than anything else.

          Another option might be some kind of licensing deal with one of the companies that makes commercial WP apps/plugins.

          Good luck to you...
          Thanks, John! I'll try not to be harmful to your health! LOL

          I've talked with most of my connections on this topic (hence the general post here as a last resort), but I refuse to give up! I'll keep looking until I find that right connection that I know is out there!
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    • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
      Thanks, DeborahDera for your input.

      Yes, I've been in several areas of the forum looking for anything. I've contacted programmers directly as well.

      I've been a Warrior "Officially" since 2005, but was a "lurker" learning from others' threads even longer. Unfortunately, with the health issues, I've not been too active here in quite awhile and only recently (past couple months) made posts anywhere.

      I'm still looking...but I'm hoping someone has other ideas on where to look.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yadira Barbosa
    I know that there so many programmers that know how to program but without any skills on sell them.

    Try to find one offline, maybe in your own city. Of course you must create a really good proposal.
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    • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
      Originally Posted by Yadira Barbosa View Post

      I know that there so many programmers that know how to program but without any skills on sell them.

      Try to find one offline, maybe in your own city. Of course you must create a really good proposal.
      Thanks, Yadira. Offline may be the route I have to go. After this next surgery and recovery is over, I may have to pound some pavement to find someone local.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    Scott,

    Please.....

    Stay away from "old school" Product Development.... It is a waste of time and money.... 99.999999% of those are destined to fail.

    You have a product. But, you have no paying customers. As Eric Ries says, "You achieve failure."

    Focus on Customer Development.... Have people pay you to create the product... It is the entire focus of the "Lean Start-up" movement.

    Once you have cash in hand from those "paying" customers, you'll be able to find a Developer.

    All The Best,

    Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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    • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
      Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

      Scott,

      Please.....

      Stay away from "old school" Product Development.... It is a waste of time and money.... 99.999999% of those are destined to fail.

      You have a product. But, you have no paying customers. As Eric Ries says, "You achieve failure."

      Focus on Customer Development.... Have people pay you to create the product... It is the entire focus of the "Lean Start-up" movement.

      Once you have cash in hand from those "paying" customers, you'll be able to find a Developer.

      All The Best,

      Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
      Thanks Rich! I'm not sure I even know how to sell something that's not developed yet.

      It's an option I've never considered. I'll have to look into that!
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      • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
        Originally Posted by ScottRaven View Post

        Thanks Rich! I'm not sure I even know how to sell something that's not developed yet.

        It's an option I've never considered. I'll have to look into that!
        Scott,

        I've been in Software and Web Development for two decades.....

        I've been involved with several Entrepreneurial "start-ups."

        One group even plopped down $13,000.... back in 1995 for "Market Research." According to the "Market Research," we had thousands who wanted the software....

        When it came to actually buying it, it sold a whopping 100 copies.... The "Market Research" money would have been better in the fireplace... At least it would have kept them warm!

        The product was solid...

        The problem was they based their entire business on opinions..... Not people opening their wallet and paying... A huge mistake!

        All the Best,

        Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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        • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
          Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

          Scott,

          I've been in Software and Web Development for two decades.....

          I've been involved with several Entrepreneurial "start-ups."

          One group even plopped down $13,000.... back in 1995 for "Market Research." According to the "Market Research," we had thousands who wanted the software....

          When it came to actually buying it, it sold a whopping 100 copies.... The "Market Research" money would have been better in the fireplace... At least it would have kept them warm!

          The product was solid...

          The problem was they based their entire business on opinions..... Not people opening their wallet and paying... A huge mistake!

          All the Best,

          Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
          I can see where you're coming from, Rich! I just don't know how I would go about selling a software/plugin/theme (I'm thinking it will be a plugin or a combo plugin & theme) before it is even available for delivery.

          It's for Wordpress, but because I want it to have an eCommerce Platform that will use the major players in the wireless payment processing arena plus a couple more that are for several Major Credit Cards, but processed by a different company...all of this AFTER they choose the "product(s)” they want, put them into their "cart" and then checkout (physical products, so it will need to calculate shipping and taxes for in state sales).

          But the biggest part of it is the Backend Manager and the specific choices it will need to have available, yet be simple enough that there isn't a huge learning curve...that's what will probably cost the most programming time!
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    • Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

      Stay away from "old school" Product Development.... It is a waste of time and money.... 99.999999% of those are destined to fail. .
      Oh my goodness, you cannot be possibly serious...

      You are, basically, implying that the whole product creation entrepreneurship model (which is by far the most profitable, scalable and "automatize-able") is a waste of time and money.

      Did I misunderstand your post perhaps? you surely cannot be saying that, are you? :confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
        Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

        Oh my goodness, you cannot be possibly serious...

        You are, basically, implying that the whole product creation entrepreneurship model (which is by far the most profitable, scalable and "automatize-able") is a waste of time and money.

        Did I misunderstand your post perhaps? you surely cannot be saying that, are you? :confused:
        Anonymous Affiliate,

        You need to go back and read my posts... You obviously skimmed them.... :rolleyes:

        I'll wait here....

        Okay... You're back... and enlightened.... hopefully.


        Customer Development leads to success
        the vast majority of the time.

        Product Development leads to failure the vast majority
        of the time.....

        Don't believe me?

        Hear it from the lips of other Silicon Valley experts.... Steve Blank and Eric Ries....

        Educate yourself by reading the following:

        Amazon.com: The Four Steps to the Epiphany eBook:...Amazon.com: The Four Steps to the Epiphany eBook:...

        and

        Amazon.com: The Lean Startup: How Today's...Amazon.com: The Lean Startup: How Today's...

        When you are done, come back and logically explain why you still believe "Product Development" is a more profitable approach than "Customer Development."

        I'm looking forward to it, my friend.

        All The Best,

        Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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  • Profile picture of the author deu12000
    I've gotten emails from different marketers looking for an "idea man" in the past. It's been pretty random so I have no suggestion that can really help you at the moment. Just keep contacting people, sooner or later you're bound to find someone interested in your idea.

    Also maybe post some details here, you might get a bite if it seems like something that would be profitable for everyone involved.
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    • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
      Originally Posted by deu12000 View Post

      I've gotten emails from different marketers looking for an "idea man" in the past. It's been pretty random so I have no suggestion that can really help you at the moment. Just keep contacting people, sooner or later you're bound to find someone interested in your idea.

      Also maybe post some details here, you might get a bite if it seems like something that would be profitable for everyone involved.
      Thanks, Deu12000!

      I refuse to give up!

      I don't post any details become I've done that in the past and had someone steal the idea and develop the product themselves based on my idea. I'm not taking that risk again.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Hi Scott,

        Certainly, the sections on WF already mentioned are worth keeping an eye on.

        In the meantime, and depending on the exact nature of your product, you could explore funding for your project via a site such as kickstarter and use the funds to hire a programmer.

        Other than that, the obvious sites to find programmers, such as elance, odesk etc. will require payment so they're probably not an option. But there are sites that allow you to post your programming requirements without specifying a charge. For example, at Jobs Offered Forum at JavaRanch I see a couple of projects posted where a profit share is offered. You could also try WordPress Jobs | WordPress related Job Postings which allows you the flexibility to specify your own terms of payment.

        Good luck!


        Frank
        Signature


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        • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Hi Scott,

          Certainly, the sections on WF already mentioned are worth keeping an eye on.

          In the meantime, and depending on the exact nature of your product, you could explore funding for your project via a site such as kickstarter and use the funds to hire a programmer.

          Other than that, the obvious sites to find programmers, such as elance, odesk etc. will require payment so there're probably not an option. But there are sites that allow you to post your programming requirements without specifying a charge. For example, at Jobs Offered Forum at JavaRanch I see a couple of projects posted where a profit share is offered. You could also try WordPress Jobs | WordPress related Job Postings which allows you the flexibility to specify your own terms of payment.

          Good luck!


          Frank
          Thanks, Frank! I had thought about Kickstarter, but I don't want to give the idea away.

          The other site suggestions I haven't heard of, so I'll definitely spend some time looking through them and seeing if I can find something that way!

          Much Appreciated!
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      • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
        Originally Posted by ScottRaven View Post

        Thanks, Deu12000!
        I don't post any details become I've done that in the past and had someone steal the idea and develop the product themselves based on my idea. I'm not taking that risk again.
        Scott,

        While I wouldn't share it with the world, I honestly wouldn't worry about your "big idea" being stolen.

        Why?

        "Big ideas" that are really profitable are very rare.... Like 1 in a billion... That rare...

        If you do have that 1 in a billion "big idea" that is really profitable, there will be someone entering that market within a couple of months.... if not weeks. To grab their slice of the pie.... That is the way business is...

        Look at Facebook... not an original idea.
        MacOS..... Flat out stolen from Xerox.....
        Google... another "clone."

        The only way to avoid having your 1 in a billion really profitable idea from being stolen... is to not sell it.

        All the Best,

        Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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        • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
          Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

          Scott,

          While I wouldn't share it with the world, I honestly wouldn't worry about your "big idea" being stolen.

          Why?

          "Big ideas" that are really profitable are very rare.... Like 1 in a billion... That rare...

          If you do have that 1 in a billion "big idea" that is really profitable, there will be someone entering that market within a couple of months.... if not weeks. To grab their slice of the pie.... That is the way business is...

          Look at Facebook... not an original idea.
          MacOS..... Flat out stolen from Xerox.....
          Google... another "clone."

          The only way to avoid having your 1 in a billion really profitable idea from being stolen... is to not sell it.

          All the Best,

          Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
          I guess you make a great point, Rich! I'm not necessarily worried about competition (and no, it's no a 1 in a Billion), but I would like to be First to Market if at all possible. It sure would help some things on my end!

          Thanks!
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          • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
            Originally Posted by ScottRaven View Post

            I guess you make a great point, Rich! I'm not necessarily worried about competition (and no, it's no a 1 in a Billion), but I would like to be First to Market if at all possible. It sure would help some things on my end!

            Thanks!
            Scott,

            "First to Market" doesn't matter either.....

            You could build it and end up with 100 paying customers.... or 10.

            Remember, Product Development relies on the "If you build it, they will come" mantra. They assume "everyone needs it."

            Customer Development has paying customers vote... The only way that counts... with their money.

            All the Best,

            Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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            • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
              Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

              Scott,

              "First to Market" doesn't matter either.....

              You could build it and end up with 100 paying customers.... or 10.

              Remember, Product Development relies on the "If you build it, they will come" mantra. They assume "everyone needs it."

              Customer Development has paying customers vote... The only way that counts... with their money.

              All the Best,

              Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
              Thanks! I'll think on that for awhile and see where it takes me!

              Much Appreation!
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              • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
                Originally Posted by ScottRaven View Post

                Thanks! I'll think on that for awhile and see where it takes me!

                Much Appreation!
                Scott,

                You're welcome!

                All the Best,

                Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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  • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
    I've never tried to hire a programmer, so no, I cannot speak with empirical experience, but it is not a myth.

    In fact, it is a business model in some industries, like the art industry. The artist produces the work, hands it over to the gallery, the gallery sells it and splits the profits in an agreed upon percentage (you don't want to be an artist lol).

    You can find examples in all kinds of businesses. No not a myth. You just got to keep looking for programmers. You eventually find one, I have no doubt, if you knock on enough programmers doors.
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    One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothing can beat teamwork.

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    • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
      Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

      I've never tried to hire a programmer, so no, I cannot speak with empirical experience, but it is not a myth.

      In fact, it is a business model in some industries, like the art industry. The artist produces the work, hands it over to the gallery, the gallery sells it and splits the profits in an agreed upon percentage (you don't want to be an artist lol).

      You can find examples in all kinds of businesses. No not a myth. You just got to keep looking for programmers. You eventually find one, I have no doubt, if you knock on enough programmers doors.
      I'm definitely NOT going to stop knocking! Thanks for the encouragement, Christopher!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    As someone who's developed 100% for my own benefit, but has known a lot of developers in my life, there's my advice.

    1) I remember back when I was a kid, I had an older friend that developed just about everything I wanted free of charge. This can definitely occur, because a lot of developers have 0 business sense. (Not a knock, just tough love).

    2) To find developers that can help? Why not try the JV forum on the warriorforum? There's a ton of freelance developers.

    3) Another route, would be to post this information on some "Programming" "Tech" and "Web Development" forums. A ton of developers are out of work (contrary to popular belief) and would LOVE the opportunity to make some money. I promise, there are a ton of competent developers that would "work first and get paid later" if you pitch it the right way.

    4) Craigslist is another avenue of consideration. Again, you'll have to be creative when you pitch this, but you can definitely tap these people.

    5) Finally, maybe consider pitching your idea on Fiverr. It will depend on how you pitch this, but say you're interested in a long-term project (create a request), and say you can only pay $5 to get started, but want to expand. Maybe some desperate (yet competent) developer will see potential and try to help?

    6) Another thing you might consider is reaching out to colleges. Computer Science professors often love finding projects like this for promising students to get some "real world" experience, even if there's no upfront payment and only potential for future gains.

    7) Finally, consider starting a jumpstart / crowdsourcing campaign. Promote it well enough, and spin it as an upcoming benefit to humanity that will also employ underemployed college students. (You'll be raising money to create a web development job which in turns helps the economy).

    That's a solid brainstorming foundation and I hope you can take advantage of it.

    PS: I'm very sorry to hear that you're down on luck. We've all been there, but hopefully you find solace in the information I've provided.

    Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      As someone who's developed 100% for my own benefit, but has known a lot of developers in my life, there's my advice.

      1) I remember back when I was a kid, I had an older friend that developed just about everything I wanted free of charge. This can definitely occur, because a lot of developers have 0 business sense. (Not a knock, just tough love).

      2) To find developers that can help? Why not try the JV forum on the warriorforum? There's a ton of freelance developers.

      3) Another route, would be to post this information on some "Programming" "Tech" and "Web Development" forums. A ton of developers are out of work (contrary to popular belief) and would LOVE the opportunity to make some money. I promise, there are a ton of competent developers that would "work first and get paid later" if you pitch it the right way.

      4) Craigslist is another avenue of consideration. Again, you'll have to be creative when you pitch this, but you can definitely tap these people.

      5) Finally, maybe consider pitching your idea on Fiverr. It will depend on how you pitch this, but say you're interested in a long-term project (create a request), and say you can only pay $5 to get started, but want to expand. Maybe some desperate (yet competent) developer will see potential and try to help?

      6) Another thing you might consider is reaching out to colleges. Computer Science professors often love finding projects like this for promising students to get some "real world" experience, even if there's no upfront payment and only potential for future gains.

      7) Finally, consider starting a jumpstart / crowdsourcing campaign. Promote it well enough, and spin it as an upcoming benefit to humanity that will also employ underemployed college students. (You'll be raising money to create a web development job which in turns helps the economy).

      That's a solid brainstorming foundation and I hope you can take advantage of it.

      PS: I'm very sorry to hear that you're down on luck. We've all been there, but hopefully you find solace in the information I've provided.

      Good luck.
      Thank you for some great info as well, Sarevok!

      You've provided me with a lot of useful info and ideas to brainstorm with! I appreciate every bit of it!

      I do watch different areas of this forum, including the JVSection, but haven't had any luck yet. That definitely doesn't mean I'm giving up on the Warrior Forum. I will start searching for some programming forums as well!
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  • Profile picture of the author Melody
    Scott -

    I have more than 20 years in the ecommerce platform development space - and based on the description you have above of the ecom side of the project - you are looking at some potentially serious development costs. There is so much more to the ecom/payments side than most people realize, not just the tech side but the legal and security issues as well.

    Not trying to discourage but anything that has to do with payments usually is a pretty major project, and you really need to make sure you have a a very knowledgeable programmer on the project.

    Mel
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    • Profile picture of the author deu12000
      Originally Posted by Melody View Post

      Scott -

      I have more than 20 years in the ecommerce platform development space - and based on the description you have above of the ecom side of the project - you are looking at some potentially serious development costs. There is so much more to the ecom/payments side than most people realize, not just the tech side but the legal and security issues as well.

      Not trying to discourage but anything that has to do with payments usually is a pretty major project, and you really need to make sure you have a a very knowledgeable programmer on the project.

      Mel
      I agree with this in general, but if you could base it off of another product that is already on the market it could seriously help with development time as well as cost to create the product. It might limit your sales opportunities, but that's not always the case.

      For example (this is in my head now since I just finished a site based off of this, it probably has nothing to do with what you are doing, but it's just an idea and example): woocommerce is a free e-commerce WordPress plugin but I'm seeing some of the extensions for it vary in price from free to $99 (and maybe more). The ground work and documentation is all laid out for this plugin, if your idea matched up with another product it could speed up development and significantly reduce development costs, as well as has an opportunity to build off of the success of another product.
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      • Profile picture of the author Melody
        Originally Posted by deu12000 View Post

        I agree with this in general, but if you could base it off of another product that is already on the market it could seriously help with development time as well as cost to create the product. It might limit your sales opportunities, but that's not always the case.

        For example (this is in my head now since I just finished a site based off of this, it probably has nothing to do with what you are doing, but it's just an idea and example): woocommerce is a free e-commerce WordPress plugin but I'm seeing some of the extensions for it vary in price from free to $99 (and maybe more). The ground work and documentation is all laid out for this plugin, if your idea matched up with another product it could speed up development and significantly reduce development costs, as well as has an opportunity to build off of the success of another product.
        That's very true - I was simply pointing out that if you are delving into a specialized area like payment processing, you need someone with more than 'just' great programming skills.

        For example, I get approached all the time by people that have a great idea for a new payment solution to make it easier for people to send money to their friends and families - great solutions but totally illegal by money transmission regulations!

        So - the point was simply that if you want to develop a product that involves any aspect of payment processing - make sure you know what you are doing or have a programmer that does, as it is a very tricky area.

        Melody
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        Our first "Digital Yard Sale"! A massive PLR Blowout Sale to help a friend pay medical expenses.
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  • I have done a lot of software-based joint ventures.

    Sharing equity in a software development project usually implies a synergy: one brings in the tech know how (and work), and the other brings the market reach. Therefore, if you are looking to JV with a programmer, be prepared to be asked "how will you sell this puppy once I have done my part of the deal?"
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    These kind of partnerships happen all the time. The internet was built upon them.

    You just need to find a programmer that has as much faith in you as you do them - preferably someone local. If you start pitching the concept to random people online, one of them may just decide he doesn't need you as a partner and take the idea for himself.
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  • Profile picture of the author dewayneboyd
    Part of the problem seems to be that you are not presenting the idea in a cohesive manner. You say you have this great idea. Now, let's say you find a programmer that can do it for you.

    What is the next step? How are you going to succeed? What is your marketing plan once you have the site set up? Why would a programmer spend his time unless you convince him you are going to be successful at marketing the product or service? Simply having an idea is not enough. You then need a plan to market it. Have you even done any market research? How will you advertise? Will it require an expensive dedicated server? If you can't hire a programmer, how are you going to pay for the server? Where is your plan?
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    • Profile picture of the author Haroon Ballim
      Most Developers will want payment for their work upfront as they have no guarantee that partnering with someone will bring rewards or cover the cost of their time .

      Unless of course you can show them that you are someone that has good marketing ability with a proven list of buying customers . The toughest part of making money with software is not development , its getting buying customers to see your offer . That's why most developers don't go into the direct selling game . Marketing ain't everyone's cup of tea.

      So to get a developer to partner with you , you would basically need to show him you have a proven track record of being able to make sales in good to high volume .
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  • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
    Thank you to everyone that has posted some great info here for me to work through. I am familiar with the marketing angle, having spent 14 years in marketing, training, and multi-state management for the wireless industry before starting in the Internet Marketing world a bit over 11 years ago. I shouldn't have any trouble presenting a case to the right programmer, I'm just not going to do so on a public forum, of course.

    On the Payment side of things, I had figured that it would be easier and smarter to build off a current platform. I just have 1 particular company I'd like to add and I know they do web payments and have an API that should be easy to implement along with the others. The project is designed around a product base that, while being tangible, will not be against anyone's TOS.

    Again, thanks for ALL of your valuable advice! I appreciate it all and will be breaking down each bit of it to make sure my bases are covered!

    Happy New Year!

    Scott
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  • Profile picture of the author Friedmett
    You can't sell products?

    Yes you can. I see 2 problems. One is the mindset with the thoughts on general health and desperation on a solution which keeps you away from finding the way to sell the products you have. In all cases you have gotten my notice and I will give my 2 cents here.

    Look for the top guys that do well and learn from them. As for products the guy I can recommend is non other than Brendon Burchard with Experts academy and total product blueprint. His got a lot of free stuff out there so you can get a feel of it. Invest when it feels right.
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    • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
      Originally Posted by Friedmett View Post

      You can't sell products?

      Yes you can. I see 2 problems. One is the mindset with the thoughts on general health and desperation on a solution which keeps you away from finding the way to sell the products you have. In all cases you have gotten my notice and I will give my 2 cents here.

      Look for the top guys that do well and learn from them. As for products the guy I can recommend is non other than Brendon Burchard with Experts academy and total product blueprint. His got a lot of free stuff out there so you can get a feel of it. Invest when it feels right.
      I never meant I couldn't sell products at all...I meant that it couldn't imagine selling a product that wasn't already developed. The idea of selling nothing to build something people will get...eventually...just seems like a difficult way to do things and still keep customers happy. I hope that makes sense.

      I don't have any products of my own, as I was the Product Creator before I became too sick to do it. I really blame all the meds they have me on for making it too hard to concentrate when I want to write an ebook. Also, I've never done any product development with Software, so this is new to me compared to my past stuff and compared to now, where all we do is Affiliate Promotions.

      Sharlene has started a new Mentoring Program that she's going to make work for us on her end, but I expect so much difference after my upcoming surgery (based on the trial of it) that I should be more able to jump back in again myself!

      I have received a PM from a student in the UK that wants to talk about the project and partnering, so good things have already come out of this thread! I'll be contacting him today to see what we may be able to do on it...but I have to ain't until my morning meds are mostly out of my system enough to concentrate more on it.

      I should say that I have experience with graphics and know a few Graphic Artists for the sales material and a friend in the UK that will help dial in my copywriting for better conversions as needed once we test it a bit and have some Analytics.

      Thanks for the suggestion about the guy and his stuff to learn from! I'll look up his stuff today, too.

      So many people have been very helpful, here! I appreciate them all Very Much!
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      • Profile picture of the author raydp
        Originally Posted by ScottRaven View Post

        but I expect so much difference after my upcoming surgery (based on the trial of it) that I should be more able to jump back in again myself!
        Hi Scott, I can't help with your question, but just wanted to say how nice it is to see you getting going again. I do hope the surgery goes OK and look forward to hearing more from you.

        All the best for 2014!

        Ray
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
          Originally Posted by raydp View Post

          Hi Scott, I can't help with your question, but just wanted to say how nice it is to see you getting going again. I do hope the surgery goes OK and look forward to hearing more from you.

          All the best for 2014!

          Ray
          Thanks, Ray! Good to "see" you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Devid Farah
    Hi Scott, first off i hope you recover soon. Those are really so many surgeries and it certainly sucks, i can only wish you and your wife a 2014 full of joy and happiness and of course with no surgeries .

    Having said that, this is probably something you wont like to hear but i have to tell you.

    I dont know if you ever hired programmers online, let me advice you to be very careful who you deal with at the beginning.

    Trust NOBODY at first.

    You see, its true that there are some great people willing to help you, yeah sure... but there are also selfish ones who just want to take your money and run away.

    There are lots of fake programmers who wont think twice before taking your money.

    Programmers "hang out" here; elance, guru, odesk, rent a coder and many others.

    Here's a list of freelancing platforms in case you need it:

    50 Freelance Job Sites For Designers & Programmers – Best Of

    Elance is the BEST for programmers, at least from my experience.

    If you think to hire a programmer online have a CRYSTAL CLEAR vision of what you are trying to accomplish, the product you want to create, the features, what it does...etc... and more importantly ALWAYS ask for references. Dont be afraid to do that. So many marketers seem to be "scared" to do this. Ask for previous projects, what they did in the past, people they worked with. Dont just trust their words.

    Originally Posted by ScottRaven View Post

    I read said you can usually find a Programmer that will be willing to Partner with you for a percentage of the Profits if you cannot afford to hire a programmer outright! I've even read a few more recent products that state the same thing.

    Is this just a MYTH? Maybe, just wishful thinking?
    You see, here's the problem scott... what u said is not a myth...well, actually yes and no. I agree with you that years ago was way waaaay easier to do that, but nowadays top programmers get offers like this every day: "you develop, i market…". but it doesn't work like that.

    Some programmers(if they accept) usually ask to share a part of the development costs, and deduct money from their future earnings(if you do a 50/50 split). Is actually very difficult to find a top programmer who will agree to work for free cause they are scared to lose money if the project fail.

    Hope you'll accomplish your goals,
    Best
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    • Profile picture of the author ScottRaven
      Originally Posted by Devid Farah View Post

      Hi Scott, first off i hope you recover soon. Those are really so many surgeries and it certainly sucks, i can only wish you and your wife a 2014 full of joy and happiness and of course with no surgeries .

      Having said that, this is probably something you wont like to hear but i have to tell you.

      I dont know if you ever hired programmers online, let me advice you to be very careful who you deal with at the beginning.

      Trust NOBODY at first.

      You see, its true that there are some great people willing to help you, yeah sure... but there are also selfish ones who just want to take your money and run away.

      There are lots of fake programmers who wont think twice before taking your money.

      Programmers "hang out" here; elance, guru, odesk, rent a coder and many others.

      Here's a list of freelancing platforms in case you need it:

      50 Freelance Job Sites For Designers & Programmers – Best Of

      Elance is the BEST for programmers, at least from my experience.

      If you think to hire a programmer online have a CRYSTAL CLEAR vision of what you are trying to accomplish, the product you want to create, the features, what it does...etc... and more importantly ALWAYS ask for references. Dont be afraid to do that. So many marketers seem to be "scared" to do this. Ask for previous projects, what they did in the past, people they worked with. Dont just trust their words.



      You see, here's the problem scott... what u said is not a myth...well, actually yes and no. I agree with you that years ago was way waaaay easier to do that, but nowadays top programmers get offers like this every day: "you develop, i market…". but it doesn't work like that.

      Some programmers(if they accept) usually ask to share a part of the development costs, and deduct money from their future earnings(if you do a 50/50 split). Is actually very difficult to find a top programmer who will agree to work for free cause they are scared to lose money if the project fail.

      Hope you'll accomplish your goals,
      Best
      Thank you, Devid. You are so right about Trust...especially in this business! I got burned more than a few times early in the beginning of my I.M. career and that's why I am so leery about sharing even the smallest detail with anyone unless I trust them enough to work with them!

      Very good advice and a great reminder of the past mistakes I made by trusting the wrong people.

      Thanks again!
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  • Profile picture of the author wrcato2
    Hello ScottRaven, give this guy a try https://www.elance.com/s/jaswsinc/ the worse that he can say is no, right. I am sure that if he see's the value like you do in your program, he will code it for you.

    When you need sales copy for it PM me first... okay.
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  • Profile picture of the author Geeked Labs
    Sounds like an absolute myth. I know many programmers and don't know a single one who would enter into a partnership like that. Their skills are in high demand and they know it. Good luck!

    Edit: The above assumes your only contribution to the deal is "having the idea" and "being a marketer guy".

    If you have solid assets to bring to the table then making a deal is totally possible. For example I made a deal to get a developer to join my new consulting company and handle all of the dev for free. Here's what I brought to the table:

    1. I created all the copy including the website copy, the ad copy, and a 30 day email autoresponder sequence. I also had lots of proven stats to show what my copywriting skills did for other businesses.

    2. I brought in my past clients list

    3. I agreed to pay for all of the FB advertising fees from day 1

    In other words I didn't just come to him with an idea as a "marketer guy". I completely took care of marketing for him before I asked him to lift a finger.
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