It converts at 49% but....

MusicMinCoach

10 years ago

Giving this one bump, just because I posted it so early in the a.m .

Thanks

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Ron Cross
http://www.TheMusicMinistryCoach.com
http://www.Facebook.com/TheMusicMinistryCoach

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joshril

10 years ago

Originally Posted by MusicMinCoach

Hey guys,

I've been trying to figure out the best way to optomize my funnel for my home study course. The squeeze page, which offers a free 5 day video vocal training course, does really well, converting at almost 50% on mostly organic traffic. But conversions from the free course to the paid course aren't what I'd like.

I recently made some changes to the sales page that seemed to help but now I'm wondering if maybe I'm giving away too much by offering a 5 day course instead of maybe a single lesson or two. I always have trouble with this question because I get so many great reviews about the course. Also a recent survey I did of those who purchases the paid course revealed that most of them had upgraded after the 5 day course.

So I still think it's a great lead generator for the course but I'm torn about shortening it or leaving it as it is and simply concentrating on driving more traffic. Look at the stats below, which show the open percentages dropping every day of the course.

Sent Opened Clicks
1 100% 58.00% 43.00%
2 100% 48.00% 36.00%
3 100% 42.00% 32.00%
4 100% 36.00% 24.00%
5 100% 35.00% 17.00%

I was told this drop-off is normal and to be expected. I've also gotten sales later from people who didn't upgrade at the end of the course by doing promos and such.

One other thing I've considered is creating just a plain squeeze page with a great headline but no giveaway. Then offering a free sample lesson to people who are leaving the sales page via a pop-under. I'd love some honest, constructive advice here, especially from those of you doing something pretty similar. I think my paid course has the potential to produce a full time income one I can find that magic combination.

I sent you a PM...

Thanks,

Josh

[ 1 ] Thanks

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travlinguy

10 years ago

If by "opened clicks" you're talking about solo ads that's likely to be the problem. I'm not going to go into detail here but a LOT of solo ad venders are NOT what they appear to be.

Thanks
1 reply

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MusicMinCoach

10 years ago

Originally Posted by alamest

your open rate and clicks are very cool..

is it on make money online niche or something else..

This is a non-Im, non MMOL niche.

Originally Posted by joshril

The biggest issues I see:

1. The funnel is clunky - hard to navigate and I was getting videos that were cut-off in the funnel
2. I don't even see how to get to the paid offer until video #2
3. Probably too much free content... also, there is the ability to skip from video #1 to video #2, so that's probably another reason why you see a drop-off... and then a day goes by and they lose interest. By the time you start selling them via email, they've moved on
4. The sales page has multiple issues - (Headline, unclear call to action, it's hard to understand the payment terms, price to value comparison, etc.)

The GOOD? VERY solid content... with a better sales letter/funnel and a solid angle, you could sell this and do well.

Thanks,

Josh

Hey Josh, thanks for taking such a detailed look at everything. Not sure what you mean about cut-off videos. I haven't had anyone mention it. I definitely have a tough time with sales pages for sure. It does convert though, just not as much as I know it could and should. I got your pm and responded. I think you're right about too much free content.

Originally Posted by Kim Roach

Hey Ron!

Do you have a button that goes to the sales page below each of the free videos?

This could even be a delayed button. So it appears after they've been on the page for 15 seconds.

That way, at the end of each video you can funnel people to the sales letter for a more 'complete' training set.

Something else that works well is to give people a reason to act now. So for example, you could create a 7-day special offer (based on when someone joins your subscriber list). That way you can implement a countdown timer and give them a reason to buy now. Special pricing, extra bonus, etc...

Cheers,

Kim

Hi Kim! I have an upgrade link on every video except the first one. That's an easy fix. I like the idea of giving a stronger reason to upgrade now, like a special.

Originally Posted by vschneider4

I really agree with what savidge4 said above.

I work in advertising at an ad agency, and you always need to be careful with 1.) "cheapening" your product and 2.) misleading a potential consumer by making them think something is free when it is only "partially" so.

Hey VS, I often wonder if I may be giving away too much, thereby cheapening the paid course or making people feel like they've already received so much that they don't need to upgrade.

I don't think (I may be wrong) that the free course is misleading in any way though. It's a 5 day course and it's free, no obligation to continue or upgrade. In fact many people take alll 5 days, thank me and praise me all the way through it and then go on their way...which is why I'm here, lol!

Your product is solid and is worth the price that I am sure you would like to charge. So I think the best positioning for your free course would be to call it "Introductory Lessons" or a "Free 5 Day Trial". This communicates that the product comes at a price, but generous you is letting the user take it for a test-drive so it speak. You are giving them a "sneak peek", which is another smart phrase because it suggests that they are getting access to something, for a limited amount of time, to something they wouldn't normally be able to get access to.

Also -- I do think you MAY be giving away too much up front, but I am unfamiliar with your specific niche. I think one "Intro Lesson" could be effective, and work on that one lesson video to make it convert as highly as possible. Put some of your best advice in that first lesson to show them the course is quality and get them hooked, while letting them know that there is much more to come once they subscribe.

This all makes a lot of sense, man. I think it's small tweaks in positioning and copy that could really make this thing cook. I've gotten great feedback from people who have upgraded. Nobody seems to have an issue with the price, and I've only had maybe two people cancel before completing the whole course.

Originally Posted by plessard

You suggested several alternatives to your current funnel. Everybody on here will have an opinion. The only answer that matters is the hard numbers you will get by testing your alternatives.

You could charge $1 for the 5 day course with an auto bill to occur on day 6 etc... You may get the occasional person that will get peeved and asked for a refund when they get billed.

I definitely agree about testing. I wanted to get some feedback from you guys and maybe from that narrow down to two or three versions to test. I wondered if I wasn't attracting freebie seekers, so I have in fact thought about charging some small amount like $5-7 for the course. But I never thought about auto-bill.

Originally Posted by travlinguy

If by "opened clicks" you're talking about solo ads that's likely to be the problem. I'm not going to go into detail here but a LOT of solo ad venders are NOT what they appear to be.

No, those stats are from Aweber. They show the number of opens and clicks for each day of the 5 day course.

This is all really great input guys, thanks so much for taking the time! I think I'm so close, and if I can just get these small things tweaked this course could do at least 5 figures a month. I know the product sells and people who have bought it give me good feedback. I'm getting close guys!

Thanks
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Ron Cross
http://www.TheMusicMinistryCoach.com
http://www.Facebook.com/TheMusicMinistryCoach

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vschneider4

10 years ago

Originally Posted by MusicMinCoach

This all makes a lot of sense, man. I think it's small tweaks in positioning and copy that could really make this thing cook. I've gotten great feedback from people who have upgraded. Nobody seems to have an issue with the price, and I've only had maybe two people cancel before completing the whole course.

Cool! Sounds like you might have a winner. And I obviously didn't have the time to go through your whole course, so the warning about misleading the consumer was just a general one. It sounds like you are confident that isn't the case and consumers see the value as well. Then I think your best course of action might be to scale back the free offer and amp up the "call to action" messaging. Make the consumer want more and they will pay for it.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

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savidge4

10 years ago

"It's a 5 day course and it's free, no obligation to continue or upgrade."

This right here is the point.

The course is NOT free... it is a TRAIL of a paid service. you are counting on customers time investment and potential growth in those 5 days, for that subscriber to convert. IE. buy the course. Do you see the difference?

Honestly this is not even semantics... In advertising this a clear cut difference. For years we have seen and probably purchased 90 day trials, just pay shipping, or 7 day trails then 29.99 a month. This is a CONDITIONED aspect of marketing. Its literally like knowing to go on red and stop on green.

Hope that Helps!

Thanks
2 replies

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Success is an ACT not an idea

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NewbieLifer 10 years ago

Others have posted some great advice. I like the idea of changing it to "free 5 day trial" rather than just free. Without seeing the site or knowing what the market is, I was wondering if you offer a free ebook or something in that first email. So that they would want to open each one in order to get something that is important to them. Is there a way you could take your video content & put part of it into a free ebook for each email. Keep them engaged more and leave more breadcrumbs. Then cut the free content down just a bit so that they are still getting great info but if they subscribe, then they can take whatever it is to the next level. Kind of like "if you want to master xyz, then upgrade to the paid subscription where you will get xyz".
- [ 1 ] Thanks
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MusicMinCoach

10 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

The course is NOT free... it is a TRAIL of a paid service. you are counting on customers time investment and potential growth in those 5 days, for that subscriber to convert. IE. buy the course. Do you see the difference?

Honestly this is not even semantics... In advertising this a clear cut difference. For years we have seen and probably purchased 90 day trials, just pay shipping, or 7 day trails then 29.99 a month. This is a CONDITIONED aspect of marketing. Its literally like knowing to go on red and stop on green.

Hope that Helps!

Hey Savidge, I think maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here. Are you saying "Hey Ron, you're treating this as a free course and that's your problem. You should be treating it as a free trial to your paid course"

Or are you saying "Hey Ron, you're calling this a free course but it's NOT free. That's misleading and it's a pet peeve of mine." Let me know which of those you're trying to get across to me.

If it's the second version I'm not explaining myself well enough in regards to the 5 day course and I can share more information if you like. But I agree, there's a difference in a free course and a free trial.

Originally Posted by NewbieLifer

Others have posted some great advice. I like the idea of changing it to "free 5 day trial" rather than just free. Without seeing the site or knowing what the market is, I was wondering if you offer a free ebook or something in that first email. So that they would want to open each one in order to get something that is important to them. Is there a way you could take your video content & put part of it into a free ebook for each email. Keep them engaged more and leave more breadcrumbs. Then cut the free content down just a bit so that they are still getting great info but if they subscribe, then they can take whatever it is to the next level. Kind of like "if you want to master xyz, then upgrade to the paid subscription where you will get xyz".

Originally Posted by brutecky

A 5 day course is probably to much. Give away a free lesson. You want to get people wanting more, not give them a bunch of free info.

I've been thinking that may be the case and most of the replies seem to confirm that. This started out as my free giveaway to build my list. I didn't even have the paid course yet. After I launched the course the free 5 day course just seemed like the most logical way to generate solid leads for it.

I think you and others are right regarding the 5 days being too much. Many people may be leaving the 5 day course feeling like they've learned enough to make upgrading unnecessary. As for the course, when they subscribe and confirm they're sent an e-mail each day with a link to a private page where they view the lesson. My niche is music ministry, and the website is in my signature.

Thanks
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Ron Cross
http://www.TheMusicMinistryCoach.com
http://www.Facebook.com/TheMusicMinistryCoach

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savidge4

10 years ago

"Hey Savidge, I think maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here. Are you saying "Hey Ron, you're treating this as a free course and that's your problem. You should be treating it as a free trial to your paid course"

Or are you saying "Hey Ron, you're calling this a free course but it's NOT free. That's misleading and it's a pet peeve of mine." Let me know which of those you're trying to get across to me. "

That would be semantics! Either way it's a 3 day Trial of your incredible teaching tool.

Voice Singing Lessons with Jeannie Deva | ArtistWorks

How To Sing, Singing Lessons, Learn How To Sing Better, Singing Program | © Singing Success

Guitar System - The Fastest Way To Learn The Guitar

With the exception of Ms. Deva, The music training sites I found did not even use the word FREE at all. they all have samples, trials, introductions, or an infomercial type video.

I'm really not trying to beat the horse to death here. After hanging around here, and reading all the post about needing help... A pattern develops. Most of the people asking for advice have crud to start with. YOU on the other hand, are right there. Good looking site, Good looking product, Good Content, You have a grasp of where things are slipping. You are about as close to a success story as one gets without being one.

That close and it comes down details. Do you need to offer less? Yes! Do you need to start converting the moment that first e-mail goes out? Yes! Do you need to start converting with the first video? Yes! Could you create an image to sell the lessons above the fold ( All the way to the right where the empty space for "Recently Popular" is? ) Yes! Do you need to loose the word "Free"? Yes!

It can be one or all of those things holding you back. That is the nature of marketing.

Hope that Helps!

[ 1 ] Thanks
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MusicMinCoach

10 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

[COLOR=blue]
That would be semantics! Either way it's a 3 day Trial of your incredible teaching tool.

Voice Singing Lessons with Jeannie Deva | ArtistWorks

How To Sing, Singing Lessons, Learn How To Sing Better, Singing Program | © Singing Success

Guitar System - The Fastest Way To Learn The Guitar

With the exception of Ms. Deva, The music training sites I found did not even use the word FREE at all. they all have samples, trials, introductions, or an infomercial type video.

I'm really not trying to beat the horse to death here. After hanging around here, and reading all the post about needing help... A pattern develops. Most of the people asking for advice have crud to start with. YOU on the other hand, are right there. Good looking site, Good looking product, Good Content, You have a grasp of where things are slipping. You are about as close to a success story as one gets without being one.

That close and it comes down details. Do you need to offer less? Yes! Do you need to start converting the moment that first e-mail goes out? Yes! Do you need to start converting with the first video? Yes! Could you create an image to sell the lessons above the fold ( All the way to the right where the empty space for "Recently Popular" is? ) Yes! Do you need to loose the word "Free"? Yes!

It can be one or all of those things holding you back. That is the nature of marketing.

Hope that Helps!

Savidge you've been extremely helpful! Everyone has, thank you all so much.
One thing I've realized from this conversation is that there's a mental switch I haven't made. This 5 day course was created and launched before the paid course was created. It has always been used as my free gift for building my list.
I think once I launched the paid course I should have found anotherr incentive for my main list and either reduced the free course to one lesson or used it in another way. I thought about that too, but you should see some of these comments guys. People are so grateful and feel so blessed by the course I've had a tough time taking it away.

I've gotten some fantastic advice here though and everyone has been so positive and encouraging about it. There's so many good ideas and they all make such good sense!
I was offered some help and I'm going to do everything I can to take him up on the offer. I think k I'm St that place now where bringing in a pro is key to moving to the next level.
I've been so encouraged by the feedback guys, and I will definitely keep you all posted.
Thanks again!

Thanks
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Ron Cross
http://www.TheMusicMinistryCoach.com
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savidge4

10 years ago

"I thought about that too, but you should see some of these comments guys. People are so grateful and feel so blessed by the course I've had a tough time taking it away."

There is a fundamental difference in what you do, and what we do. We make money. YOU are fulfilling your calling. There is no reason that you could not extend your ministry through an outreach program. How that would look online... well heck don't ask me! haha But you see what I am saying.

Best of Luck!

Thanks
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MusicMinCoach

10 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

There is a fundamental difference in what you do, and what we do. We make money. YOU are fulfilling your calling. There is no reason that you could not extend your ministry through an outreach program. How that would look online... well heck don't ask me! haha But you see what I am saying.

Best of Luck!

LOL! The thing about ministry though that many people don't understand is that you have to make money some kind of way or you don't get to keep doing it! Thanks for the help my friend.

Originally Posted by Donowhy

I'd just like to add that I do think 5 days is to much for free; If they're willing to spend 5 days, they're willing to pay for it.

I'd say 2-3 days at most. Great idea though, I love the fact you're promoting education =]

2-3 days is what I was thinking too donowhy. The first 3 days, especially day 1, is by far the most watched and most engaged videos in the course. Day 1 has hundreds of raving comments. Day 2 and 3 do very well too. The numbers start to drop after that.

Thanks

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alamest

10 years ago

your open rate and clicks are very cool..

is it on make money online niche or something else..

Thanks

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joshril

10 years ago

I don't think that's the issue, as it looks like he's getting real user feedback on his free videos. The start out engaged...

The biggest issues I see:

1. The funnel is clunky - hard to navigate and I was getting videos that were cut-off in the funnel
2. I don't even see how to get to the paid offer until video #2
3. Probably too much free content... also, there is the ability to skip from video #1 to video #2, so that's probably another reason why you see a drop-off... and then a day goes by and they lose interest. By the time you start selling them via email, they've moved on
4. The sales page has multiple issues - (Headline, unclear call to action, it's hard to understand the payment terms, price to value comparison, etc.)

The GOOD? VERY solid content... with a better sales letter/funnel and a solid angle, you could sell this and do well.

Thanks,

Josh

Thanks

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Kim Roach

10 years ago

Hey Ron!

Do you have a button that goes to the sales page below each of the free videos?

This could even be a delayed button. So it appears after they've been on the page for 15 seconds.

That way, at the end of each video you can funnel people to the sales letter for a more 'complete' training set.

Something else that works well is to give people a reason to act now. So for example, you could create a 7-day special offer (based on when someone joins your subscriber list). That way you can implement a countdown timer and give them a reason to buy now. Special pricing, extra bonus, etc...

Cheers,

Kim

Thanks
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savidge4 10 years ago

I went to your home page, Nice looking blob btw. Right off the bat I saw something. Its a bit of a pet peeve for me... FREE 5 DAY COURSE, click to the offer... FREE again. Free is a powerful word. Free has expected financial results. "This is not going to cost me anything". I am sure you are aware of the Apple offer... it was free but came at a price as well. ( My goodness I have wanted to use that analogy for ever! ) Obviously the apple comes at a higher price.

Your goal is to SELL your product, however you are leading up to the sale with FREE. I BELIEVE there is a difference between "here have this for free for 5 days and you want more... its gonna cost yeah." and "Free 5 day Trail" in the second you are conditioning the user of a cost.

I have found from personal experience that the difference in conversion can be 200% or more. A huge aspect in sales is the conditioning. You already have the trust built in, I did not look at your videos but based on what Josh said you have good content. The last thing is the funnel to sale. I believe that the FREE to oh its NOT FREE costs you in the long run.

Hope that Helps!
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- vschneider4 10 years ago
  
  I really agree with what savidge4 said above.
  
  I work in advertising at an ad agency, and you always need to be careful with 1.) "cheapening" your product and 2.) misleading a potential consumer by making them think something is free when it is only "partially" so.
  
  Your product is solid and is worth the price that I am sure you would like to charge. So I think the best positioning for your free course would be to call it "Introductory Lessons" or a "Free 5 Day Trial". This communicates that the product comes at a price, but generous you is letting the user take it for a test-drive so it speak. You are giving them a "sneak peek", which is another smart phrase because it suggests that they are getting access to something, for a limited amount of time, to something they wouldn't normally be able to get access to.
  
  Also -- I do think you MAY be giving away too much up front, but I am unfamiliar with your specific niche. I think one "Intro Lesson" could be effective, and work on that one lesson video to make it convert as highly as possible. Put some of your best advice in that first lesson to show them the course is quality and get them hooked, while letting them know that there is much more to come once they subscribe.
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
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Peter Lessard

10 years ago

You suggested several alternatives to your current funnel. Everybody on here will have an opinion. The only answer that matters is the hard numbers you will get by testing your alternatives.

Optimizing funnels is about putting forward your best guess for what might be better and split testing your traffic and let the numbers tell you what works. Some options will also depend on how you feel about them personally. You could charge $1 for the 5 day course with an auto bill to occur on day 6 etc... You may get the occasional person that will get peeved and asked for a refund when they get billed.

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mediamarket

10 years ago

Send me a pm of it.

I can give you my feedback.

Thanks

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brutecky

10 years ago

A 5 day course is probably to much. Give away a free lesson. You want to get people wanting more, not give them a bunch of free info.

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Anonymous Affiliate

10 years ago

I would remove the "5 day" aspect of your funnel hook. Why force them to wait 5 days to consume the content? You are artificially delaying their purchase decision, and that is not good.

Thanks

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Donowhy

10 years ago

I'd just like to add that I do think 5 days is to much for free; If they're willing to spend 5 days, they're willing to pay for it.

I'd say 2-3 days at most. Great idea though, I love the fact you're promoting education =]

Thanks

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It converts at 49% but....

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