Flippa stealth price INCREASE

by 71 replies
91
Flippa have been up to their old tricks again. Sent out a newsletter today saying they have dropped listing fees ($29 to $19 for established sites and domains down to $9), but for established sites they actually massively increased it (by removing the cap on success fees and doubling them for established sites).

A friend on another forum got a copy of the old cached price page so you can compare (I'm sure he won't mind me posting here):

Old pricing:



New pricing:




I also did some of the numbers so you can compare in real terms (I posted this elsewhere so this is a direct quote):

"This now means a $10k site costs $1019 to sell (assuming no upgrades) vs. the $529 before.

A $60k site now costs $6019 to sell vs $3029 before.

A $100k site now costs $10,019 to sell vs $3029 before.

TL;DR - if you're selling a site over $60k on Flippa it will now cost you AT LEAST double than it did before (getting proportionately more expensive). Sellers with a $100k site are now $6990 worse off. All Flippa have done here is killed their mid-5 figure and above market (which arguably they didn't have before anyway). Call me biased, but this is not one of Flippa's better ideas."

Interesting move by Flippa as it signals a refocus on new/unestablished sites and a move away from the higher end deals. It also continues their focus on domains which is one of the few Flippa success stories from 2013.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #flippa #increase #price #stealth
  • At that pricing structure you could hire a brick and mortar business broker seeing that they price their commission at 10% anything over 100K and 10K under 100K. Just a thought that could bring in a higher price and many are moving into online businesses especially those that sell a physical product.
    • [1] reply
    • Correct. You also have the option of a broker who specialises online (shameless plug!). Commission can vary with brokers, especially on smaller (<$200k) sites. Expect to pay 12-15% on smaller deals and 10% on larger ($500k+). Beware anyone charging less than that as they are probably desperate for business and not very good

      Using a B&M broker is also an option and they may be able to get you a higher multiple but it's unlikely you will get a highly qualified buyer with the ability to run an online business. Using an online specialist will put the business in front of buyers who actually know what they are doing with a website (albeit they may pay a slightly lower multiple than an offline guy used to paying more for B&Ms).

      And obviously, with a broker in general (whoever you use), you don't have to manage the whole process yourself like you would on Flippa and have to weed out tire-kicker buyers. For many, that alone is worth the broker fee. In general a broker will get you a better price than selling yourself as they will know the current market and the right buyers are to pitch to. Flippa has a lot more speculative buyers looking for a bargain vs. buyers willing to pay a fair multiple for a legitimate strategic acquisition.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • If only there was a good broker who specialized in selling PC Gaming Software and could close a sale in a couple weeks

    Thomas, could you shoot me your Skype in a PM? You probably know who I am (secret please).
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    I just got the email and laughed when I saw the success fees. Nice way to package a listing fee decrease, but overall increase when you factor in success fees.

    That whopping 15% success fee on brand new websites is going to raise your overall price once you sell for a few hundred, this is a price increase ... not a decrease:

    Listing fee for new websites $9
    Success fee for new websites 15.0%
    The success fee is paid by the seller when they make a successful sale.

    Your site has to sell for $200 or less, or your overall costs are higher due to that 15% success fee.

    On a $100 sale:
    $29 listing, $5 success fee = $34
    $9 listing, $15 success fee = $24

    On a $200 sale:
    $29 listing, $10 success fee = $39
    $9 listing, $30 success fee = $39

    On a $400 sale:
    $29 listing, $20 success fee = $49
    $9 listing, $60 success fee = $69

    On a $600 sale:
    $29 listing, $30 success fee = $59
    $9 listing, $90 success fee = $99

    The success fee for established sites is now 10% instead of 5%, so don't imagine that you're getting a good deal by paying $19 listing fee instead of $29.

    On Established Sites:

    On a $100 sale:
    $29 listing, $5 success fee = $34
    $19 listing, $15 success fee = $34

    On a $200 sale:
    $29 listing, $10 success fee = $39
    $19 listing, $30 success fee = $49

    On a $400 sale:
    $29 listing, $20 success fee = $49
    $19 listing, $60 success fee = $79

    On a $600 sale:
    $29 listing, $30 success fee = $59
    $19 listing, $109 success fee = $99
    • [ 6 ] Thanks
  • The decision to change our pricing structure didn't happen overnight, we've been receiving feedback for a considerable time (going back over years!) asking for lower up-front fees. The changes to the success fee has allowed us to do this, and if you compare Flippa to other similar major services and even brokers, our success fee or sales commission is still the cheapest or equal cheapest on the market.

    Broker fees can vary considerably, while most don't have an up-front fee the sales commission can sometimes be as high, or even higher than 20%. There is also no guarantee there won't be other fees along the way.

    Our high-end buyers can also use our Dealflow program which falls under a different pricing structure (no listing fee and a 10% success fee)
    • [3] replies
    • Did you previously work for John Donehoe over at eBay?
    • Banned
      So .... stop pretending it's a price decrease. Your audience isn't stupid and they can see it's obviously a price increase. Do what you want with your prices, but let's call a spade a spade.


      No work, huh. They only build and market the sites. That's all. Without the hard work of sellers, there wouldn't be a marketplace. Flippa provides the site to list. You have to do the copywriting and unless you buy several enhancements to your listing, no one ever even sees it, adding even more cost to the price of Flippa.
      • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • I'm going to have to call BS on this one. In fact, I'll even go so far as to call you a liar. I'll back up my claim with concrete evidence.

      Code:
      On a $100 sale:
Before:  $29 listing, $5 success fee = $34
After:   After:  $9 listing, $15 success fee = $24
 
 On a $200 sale:
Before:  $29 listing, $10 success fee = $39
After:   $9 listing, $30 success fee = $39
      According to what you've said, you have allowed your lowest tier customers to dictate your business plan (the customers selling websites for $100 (sub $200)).

      So, according to you, you've taken all this "feedback" from your lowest tier customers and used that to provide better value to the entire Flippa community by drastically raising pricing to EVERYBODY except the lowest tier customers?

      That is a lie and you know it.
  • Flippa is now attending the Fee Bay school of customer service. I do not know whether to laugh or cry. Oh yes, this is a price increase. However, we knew they would claim they were helping us. Still remember site point and the good old days; oh, the memories.
    • [1] reply
    • I've never used Flippa, but heard that hardly anyone actually sells their domain names, so the only winner is Flippa.
      • [1] reply
  • I'm not cheering the increase, but paying a 10-15% fee for putting basically no work into the sale itself isn't a bad deal.
    • [1] reply
    • Tim,

      I posted something similar elsewhere but you seem to be doing the same so copying here:

      I'm sure it is someone higher up dictating what to say publicly, but when are Flippa ever going to stop lying? I've never seen a company falsely promote so much rubbish. Fees have not decreased at all (as advertised) - they have significantly increased for almost any sized site you want to sell. No-one noticed until I posted it here and elsewhere (which someone then copied onto a blog comment). I wonder how many people posted new auctions off the back of your promotional email about lower listing fees but didn't notice the doubling of success fees. I can't imagine that will go down well when they get their invoice (assuming their site sells).

      It is a shame as when Flippa first launched off the back of SitePoint it had tons of supporters with everyone in the industry wanting it to succeed. I have sent hundreds of sellers to Flippa over the years and I'm sure many others around here have as well. It is a shame as you have had to come in now and try pick up the pieces from some poor strategic decisions higher up - I certainly don't envy your position.

      Comparing Flippa to a broker (who will only be marginally more expensive but far cheaper if you put any value on your own time) is laughable at best. If you think Flippa provides the same service (or even close) to a broker then you need to do a little more research before spouting nonsense. At 5% Flippa offered "fair" value in my opinion and was a viable alternative to using a broker as a seller as it was quite a lot cheaper to do it yourself (around 1/3 of the cost for a mid-end site). Now it is not. Your success rates and fraud levels alone are FAR worse than even a mediocre broker.

      Saying there is "no guarantee" there will be other fees along the road with a broker is also false - very few brokers will charge anything other than a success fee. Flippa, on the other hand, make it almost impossible to get exposure for a sale without buying premium upgrades - so in reality it is Flippa that have other fees along the road, not brokers. If you have a broker adding in "hidden" fees then you've hired the wrong broker.

      https://flippa.com/dealflow - Interesting how you say here it is a 5% fee yet on the dealflow page it is 10%. Yet more misinformation. It is worrying that the public spokesperson for Flippa doesn't know their own pricing model. IMO the only way you'll ever get dealflow off the ground is partnering with people who actually know what they are doing and clearly outlining the value proposition vs listing yourself. With all due respect, the Flippa team may be good at keeping a sinking ship afloat with inflated prices, but are certainly not experts at selling sites.

      I don't think you quite understand how Flippa works. Your statement would be accurate if you are working with a broker (although there is still some work) but on Flippa you do all the work yourself - Flippa don't do anything except provide a platform (and I'm not even going to go into the issues with the platform itself).
      • [ 3 ] Thanks
  • My point is that you are paying 10-15% to access Flippa's substantial base of buyers.
    • [1] reply
    • Banned
      Many brokers also have a substantial base of buyers, with no pretend price decreases. I've heard more than one seller say they got higher prices for their sites using a broker. Many of the "buyers" on Flippa are bottom feeders looking for a bargain.

      @tbcooke: customers don't like to be tricked or lied to. If you're going to raise your prices, raise them and don't try to sell it as a price decrease when it isn't.
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    You know why this is happening?

    Because Flippa doesn't have any REAL competition!!

    There aren't any strong alternatives to flippa,so sellers(and so the buyers) can move elsewhere when such price abuses appear.

    If there was a strong alternative to flippa be sure this wouldn't happen,they have monopolized this niche and we all should call for a change!
    • [2] replies
    • Perhaps buy an aged domain via flippa and develop it to compete against said marketplace.

      It's a nice site but as a developer, I can say that none of it is brain surgery.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • There is a STRONG viable alternative launching this month.

      SiteBidz will offer you lower fees across the board as well as an affiliate program that not only rewards you for referring sellers but also puts a focus on attracting buyers by paying out up to 75% of our success fees back to affiliates.

      Joe Russell
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Flippa is getting ridiculous nowadays. I sold one of my sites last week directly without listing on Flippa. I just posted "this site is for sale" on all pages of my site and I received many offers.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • It's unfortunate we can't share feedback and thoughts on the new pricing structure without dropping to the level of calling someone who makes the time to hear feedback on forums like this a liar.

    We don't make decisions like this on a gut feeling, but after extensive research and feedback.
    • [3] replies
    • Banned

      I'm sorry ... so you're saying that your customers requested higher overall fees?
      • [ 4 ] Thanks
    • You've certainly taken a lot of the backlash personally but what you need to understand is the way the "listing fee reduction" was pitched was extremely misleading. There was no mention of the doubling of success fees or removal of the fee cap. If you were just straight up about it upfront there wouldn't be such a problem. Users shouldnt choose your prices - that's your decision. I just feel if you're going to argue you have listened to customer feedback to make this decision that you at least do people the courtesy of an honest announcement rather than leaving the success fee increase out and then jumping back in to defend yourself once people notice.

      I really hope that sellers haven't been listing sites and not realising the fees had doubled on success. I would bet the vast majority did not notice. To me that is not a good way to do business. If you're going to increase prices at least be transparent from the outset.
      • [ 7 ] Thanks
      • [3] replies
    • It's also rather unfortunate that Flippa chose to deliberately LIE to their customers about their pricing change.

      And then...we have reasons to call you a liar, like for what you're about to say next:

      Of course. I've always wanted a higher listing fee when I sell a website. It's been one of my secret hopes ever since I became an IM.

      Alright warriors, who's up to start an *honest* Flippa clone?
  • When I saw this, my first instinct was "yea, right."

    Looks like a hole has opened in the market for brokering the interwebs. Wonder how many oDesk jobs just opened up for "clone flippa".
  • Flippa is only about scammers these days...nobody would sell a reputable website over there. Its all just people selling useless domains and websites pretending to make money, while they don't. Then they use all their fake accounts to boost the bidding and fool newbies into thinking there must be some value in the product. But its all crap.
    • [2] replies
    • You really need to refrain from making general sweeping statements like that. "Flippa is only about scammers"?....."...nobody would sell a reputable website over there"?

      Listen, I agree that some of these companies are flat out lying about reasons behind price increases..oops, I mean decreases (lol).

      I sell reputable sites on flippa that don't make any money. There are people selling on flippa who are not scammers.

      Because of 1, or a few, bad apples you can't disparage the whole lot! We've seen where this has led to in many countries historically and in the present!

    • Wow what a blanket statement this is...

      With words like "nobody" and "all" you must have some hard data to back up your claims?

      I sold over $150k last year on Flippa and never once "pretended to make money".
      • [1] reply
  • Flippa's a great place for people to pawn off low quality sites with inflated "metrics" to newbies. There's very rarely a good deal from the buyers side as I've seen a lot of these so called good deals end up being sites that just go thrashed by an algo update but low and behold they forgot to mention that detail in the sales thread.

    There's money to be made in rehashing smaller sites for a few hundred bucks, but if your gonna sell a real business online than a broker's the way to go.
  • Just FYI, I thought I'd mention that I've had some pretty good success selling here in the Complete Web Sites For Sale! section.

    It's only $20 to list, it's untimed, you can handle it as an auction or however you choose, you can decide to sell or not depending on the offers you get, and you have the added advantage of it being easier to check out someone's background through looking at their history on the WF.

    I do wish though that there were a separation in there of some kind between PLR site packages and site setup services, and actual established sites for sale.

    It would make it a bit easier for folks to distinguish between the two, as the section is pretty crowded with the former rather than the latter.
    • [1] reply
    • Banned
      This section was a great addition to the WF. Unfortunately for the section as a whole, one person creates around 13-15 threads per day for those plr blogs, completely overwhelming the section with their offers. I think there should be a limit on how many one person can have on the front page. This seller has been doing it for a couple of years now and it's really degraded the usefulness of the section, and it's probably not the best place for high end sites.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • I will not sell another website on Flippa, as far as I'm concerned they have priced themselves out the market.

    I will try and sell them on this forum when I have them.

    KAte
  • Geez. I was actually pretty happy about the price drop but after reading all of this...just don't know what to think. I've never sold a website anywhere else for anything near what I was expecting. Seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation. Thanks to everyone that took the time to look things over and state the facts. It's getting hard out here for a Warrior...

    For what it's worth, I used this promo code yesterday and got a free listing: https://flippa.com/redeem-credit-voucher?c=flippacrazy&utm_source=CrazyEgg

    Only works once (I checked ). Just make sure you're signed in when you try it or it assumes you're trying to register for a new account. Hope it still works.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • For the love of pete... We are talking about corporate America here. The price restructure makes sense to me in a number of ways.

      The guys that are posting sites that don't sell are going to pay less, and those that do sell are making up for the listing loss.

      As many have noted, but not really... The theory of supply and demand seems to be in affect here. Everyone is saying they have control of the market... so you increase prices. Its the American way!

      And then there is the Obvious, which I have not seen noted here... They will be up for sale. High price tag would require higher earnings, hence the price increase, to increase overall value.

      So looking at this now as a BUSINESS. Lower posting costs will likely increase overall listings. Thus increasing potential net worth. Increase the sales side expense, which will increase over all revenue. Then you add the probability of a sale, and it all makes sense.

      Throw in for good measure tbcooke coming in and at least making an effort. ( That in itself puts him right up there in the class act category in my book )
      • [1] reply
  • Thanks for bringing this up, Thomas. Big news, indeed.

    You're right in that this supports the lower end (<$1K) of the market and drops the hammer on the over $50K crowd. Why would Flippa deliberately shift their focus like that?

    I know that they've taken some flack previously when they've switched things up. Maybe they were trying to avoid that this time by quietly introducing the success fee hike? Seems like a pretty bad move w/ some blowback. :-(
  • Yeah Flippa is getting unfair things well Adie you did a good job and share a great idea thanks.
  • Now this was an interesting read. Quite informative and entertaining too. I will just add one thing though.

    I think Flippa was not only misleading with their email entirely, they where actually lying to their members when they said it was about a price reduction. In fact, I remember getting that email and hurrying to my Flippa account because I had started the listing of two sites over weeks ago, ad never completed them.

    And at first I really thought, wow ! ! I would be able to list this sites now for less than what it would have cost me a week ago, and I was so excited until I got to the next page of the listing, and I was like whaaaat ! !

    Anyways thanks for bringing this up, I am sure many fell for that lie and some are still even falling for it as we speak.
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • UPDATE-


    Flippa took care of the issue! They were very nice about it.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Good on them. Glad to hear all went well for you.
  • Most website brokers will charge you 10% to flip a site for you. Many of them will not mess with your site unless they can make $10K from it though. So these rates are pretty well in line with that.
  • Sneaky Flippa...
  • Banned
    Wow, Flippa has really started gouging their client base, BAD. The prices used to be extremely fair two years ago. Their increases are one of the reasons I stopped, and this cements it even more.
  • Pardon my ignorance, but how does this increase translate for people selling domains only?
    • [1] reply
    • Time to start looking for a new place to sell sites on. Flippa is getting too expensive for the little work they put into the sale.
  • Removing the success fee cap is the biggest issue for me. I won't be using Flippa to sell any of my sites in the future. Flippa is not a broker, I don't see how they can justify these kinds of price hikes.
    • [1] reply
    • Just like everything in life, with Flippa you're paying for convenience. I could say, "Why should I pay $5 for a beer at the bar. I can get the same beer at the grocery store for $1.50. I'm never going to a bar again!" With Flippa you can post a site and if it's valuable and you aren't trying to get something for nothing, it will probably sell.

      The business needs to raise fees to increase profit in order stay in business and keep its owners happy. It's common sense. Could fees be lower? Probably. Are they still reasonable? Yeah.

      What people should be asking is, "Where is the money going?" LIke I said. You're paying for convenience. Also, anyone who has been on Flippa over the years and has sold sites will testify that the process has become increasingly smoother. Not to mention that more and more people are selling junk. Listings that still need to managed. People are just so demanding. You should really think about what's happening:

      1. You post some details about your website.
      2. Free traffic from all over the world views your sale.
      3. People make bids and you make money.
      4. You pay fees for someone else to sell your website while you sit back and watch the Super Bowl.

      Take a chill pill and pay the fees.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • I don't use flippa because of all the horror stories I hear, but the idea of someone conspiring to mask an increase in pricing by blasting an email advertising that they were decreasing prices, is simply shady business in my eyes.
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  • 91

    Flippa stealth price INCREASE

    Flippa have been up to their old tricks again. Sent out a newsletter today saying they have dropped listing fees ($29 to $19 for established sites and domains down to $9), but for established sites they actually massively increased it (by removing the cap on success fees and doubling them for established sites). A friend on another forum got a copy of the old cached price page so you can compare (I'm sure he won't mind me posting here):