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'Dashing' my hopes of traffic!

by noelgama
21 replies
Hi,

I just came across Nick Usborne's argument against using dashes, in a section of AWAI's "How to Write Your Own Money-making Websites" course. The title of the section is, "No hyphens please"

Nick makes the following points:

1. Google doesn't care, one way or another;

2. Hyphens make you look amateurish;

3. Hyphens make your domain name harder to remember;

This is contrary to SBI's Action Guide (Day 5, Step 4) where it says, "engines usually treat a dash as a space. So it may be more likely to "see" the entire string as separate words."

Another para of the Action Guide says, "If your business is 99%+ online, the offline issues of dealing with dashes are not so important."

While No. 1 above doesn't matter because it's not in one's control, No. 3 doesn't matter either because a) most of my business is '99%+' online and b) I can always have dashes-free domains for offline use.

What is of concern is No.2 above - is it really perceived as amateurish when dashes are used in domain names?

Noel Gama
#dashing #hopes #traffic
  • Profile picture of the author Tyrus Antas
    Originally Posted by noelgama View Post

    What is of concern is No.2 above - is it really perceived as amateurish when dashes are used in domain names?
    Not only do I perceived them as amateurish I immediately start thinking it's some kind of spam site.

    There are exceptions. I visit Darren Rowse excellent digital-photography-school.com, but that's because I know Darren previous work so I already trust him.

    Tyrus
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    • Profile picture of the author Wakunahum
      Originally Posted by Tyrus Antas View Post

      Not only do I perceived them as amateurish I immediately start thinking it's some kind of spam site.

      There are exceptions. I visit Darren Rowse excellent digital-photography-school.com, but that's because I know Darren previous work so I already trust him.

      Tyrus
      That's probably because you are experienced in internet marketing and have a concept of what a 'spam' site is.

      The average user doesn't have any clue about any of this, so in reality it doesn't matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisaplin
    Dashes scream "I couldn't get the domain I wanted, so I cheated and got this messed up name that no one will ever remember."

    Fly-by-night.
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  • Profile picture of the author ValleyArch
    Hi,

    Probably best not to use them on the main domain name itself but in my opinion for the subpages it's a perfectly legitimate way of specifically targeting keywords phrases. I would say it sends the message to the search engines that this is the exact phrase intended by the webpage.

    But honestly, I don't think this has ever been systematically tested to prove it either way so we'll probably never know for sure.

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author Harry Behrens
    If your activities for this website are 1) all online and 2) not targetted at IM'ers or web designers, it will never matter.

    If your offer and the value proposition of your website are legitimate nobody will care if there's a dash in your domain. Online, links are to be clicked and bookmarked not written down... The only people that may give you a problem are like I said IM'ers and web designers who are aware of the 'dash' issues and look on it as 'amateurish'. But it's only that segment... Other people don't know and don't care.
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    - Harry Behrens

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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      It doesn't matter. I have sites with hyphens that I've had for years and a few newer ones with hyphens. As they get decent traffic and are profitable, do I care if an IMer thinks they are "amateurish". No, I don't.

      Hyphens make your domain name harder to remember;
      I see this argument often - but how many domain names visited do you actually "remember". Not many.

      Given the choice I'll take non-hyphenated names. If that's not available, I'll take the keywords hyphenated. What's important to me is having a domain that uses the keywords I want.

      Perhaps more importantly - traffic isn't somethng to "hope for" - you go out (links/promotion) and get it.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author chrisaplin
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        It doesn't matter. I have sites with hyphens that I've had for years and a few newer ones with hyphens. As they get decent traffic and are profitable, do I care if an IMer thinks they are "amateurish". No, I don't.

        I see this argument often - but how many domain names visited do you actually "remember". Not many.

        Given the choice I'll take non-hyphenated names. If that's not available, I'll take the keywords hyphenated. What's important to me is having a domain that uses the keywords I want.

        Perhaps more importantly - traffic isn't somethng to "hope for" - you go out (links/promotion) and get it.

        kay
        The right marketer can make any site profitable, I don't think that is the discussion.

        In general, however, it's in the "beginners" mind to remove hyphens from the equation. A seasoned pro like you, maybe not. Maybe you aren't looking for repeat traffic, maybe it's a one and done deal. If you don't care about branding your site, who cares then.

        d-oes-ntre-al-lymat-ter.co.uk
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    From what everyone says it only matters if the content you provide is not up to scratch. If the site has dashes dots or squiggles doesn't matter if people want what you have.

    But this applies to all web sites.

    Quentin
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Google will ultimately end up giving less importance to this stuff and more on branding and factors which related to relevance and incoming links, so it's best to go for the most appropriate url for your business - Look at Google - no keywords in there, just a random word

    Sometimes you just can't find the domain you really want and need to go with the next best thing, but as long as you make it easy to remember so that you don't lose traffic to the non-dashed version it shouldn't be a big problem.

    Andy
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    I must be getting old - I remember when hyphens were "the thing to do" and I still have many of those old hyphenated domains that make money.

    I think it probably only looks amateurish in the IM world. Regular people searching for things like wedding planning and acne cures probably could care less. How many of them even look at the domain name?

    Lee
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    Gone Fishing
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  • Profile picture of the author PetraW
    I don't think that dashes matter - as long as there are not too many. I have heard Google doesn't particularly like them but it's ok if there is one in the domain. (Not 2 or 3).
    About the issue of "this looks amateurish and sreams SCAM" - if you are selling something on your site that is not IM related, most people who look at your site won't know or care as they don't know about things like that. Or am I mistaken?
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  • Profile picture of the author Droopy Dawg
    I have domains with hyphens and they perform well. Most times it was the fact that the domain name that I wanted (w/out -'s) was unavailable... your job as a web designer/marketer is to make it work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sam101
    Banned
    I doubt hyphens are bad. In fact many of the SEO plugins for wordpress do exactly this- they convert your blog post title into a long hyphenated title that usually has proven to work wonders in Google and attract traffic.
    Nor is it amateurish, why would it be? Hyphens make the domian name easier for humans to remember. As an example, which of these is easier "whattoeatinchina.com" or "what-to-eat-in-china.com"?
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    • Profile picture of the author noelgama
      This makes me WANT to go for dashes
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Murphy
    Originally Posted by noelgama View Post

    Hi,

    I just came across Nick Usborne's argument against using dashes, in a section of AWAI's "How to Write Your Own Money-making Websites" course. The title of the section is, "No hyphens please"

    Nick makes the following points:

    1. Google doesn't care, one way or another;

    2. Hyphens make you look amateurish;

    3. Hyphens make your domain name harder to remember;

    This is contrary to SBI's Action Guide (Day 5, Step 4) where it says, "engines usually treat a dash as a space. So it may be more likely to "see" the entire string as separate words."

    Another para of the Action Guide says, "If your business is 99%+ online, the offline issues of dealing with dashes are not so important."

    While No. 1 above doesn't matter because it's not in one's control, No. 3 doesn't matter either because a) most of my business is '99%+' online and b) I can always have dashes-free domains for offline use.

    What is of concern is No.2 above - is it really perceived as amateurish when dashes are used in domain names?

    Noel Gama
    I only use hyphens if i can't get the domain name i want, so i use the hyphens.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Anderson
    this-is-one-of-those-posts. you know the one that can be argued either way. depending on the day.
    i am libran and love a good debate.
    even though i do not call myself a newbie anymore i am newish, and to me a spammer is that email list guy that sends me some 3 year old crap because he is too lazy to worry about his list. not someone with a hyphen anywhere.
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    Just good marketing advice - Business ideas
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    • Profile picture of the author noelgama
      I agree to both the points!
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  • Profile picture of the author ~Davor Debrecin~
    I agree with Wakunahum.

    If you're only doing business online, then the most important thing for you to ask yourself is - how will my prospects react when they see hyphens in my domain name? If you're doing some PPC, will they think my site is a scam, spam or whatever.

    I think that in most markets, no one will notice that and get that impression of your site.
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    warrior-forum.com available
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    • Profile picture of the author yohan0923
      The advantage is that hypens play an added role in a site but sometimes people did not remember the hypen when searching for your site.
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  • Profile picture of the author mylootnow7
    I think it either way depends on how you approach the idea of using a hyphen. If you are branded, people on your list will still buy from you. If you just starting out, then it wouldn't be recommend to do so only if you are guru so-to-speak. I also think that by using hyphens you may get a leg up on the competition and garner relevance. WHO KNOWS??
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