Cancelling aWeber account with about 20k Double Opt In Emails... How should I do this?

87 replies
So I have an aWeber account with about 20k double opt-in emails.

I have never ended up mailing much to them.

But I am getting charged about $150 a month. I had some decent plans for the list, but I never got around to using them.

I would obviously save the emails in a backup, but I imagine I'd have a harder time reaching an inbox if I moved them to another server.

So I guess my question is, what would you do with these?

Should I just keeping eating the $150/month fee? Or just drop it?
#20k #account #aweber #cancelling #double #emails #opt
  • Profile picture of the author gluckspilz
    Just start emailing them now? 20K double opt in can bring in more than $150 a month.
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    • Profile picture of the author HenryBell
      Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

      Just start emailing them now? 20K double opt in can bring in more than $150 a month.
      I couldn't agree more....
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  • Profile picture of the author FrankMiller
    I suppose. $150/mo wouldn't really be worth it. If I could make like $800+ I would.

    They aren't very targeted.. Maybe I can send them something though. The demo is mostly 35+ women...
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  • Profile picture of the author john01a
    You mentioned you had decent plans for the list... what's stopping you from following through.

    If you spent the time building up the list, why would you want to throw that away without trying to make money from a list that size.

    Isn't there affiliate offers or CPA offers that would appeal to most of your audience... something along the same lines of whatever it was that got them to join your list in the first place?
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  • Profile picture of the author featherstory
    Get someone to write emails for you and start using that list! You can start figuring out what you want to target for them and those who aren't interested will drop away...but don't get rid of that list!

    Send affiliate offers to them. I'm not sure if it would look any different to them or if they would care much about you sending them emails from another web responder. Start sending them surveys to find out more about them and sending them emails that get them to talk. Send them links and figure out which ones they decide to click on.

    I'm super jealous of that list...send it to me!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sagar Mehta
    I think the list would be 'dead' already, but you've already paid for a couple of months for it, and it wouldn't hurt to try sending at least 3 to 6 emails as 'feelers'.

    See what kind of responses you get, if they get opened etc. If it's totally dead you can simply close the account as you were planning to.

    If not, you have a great opportunity to resume your plans of the list (even if you don't want to work on it yourself, you could get someone to execute your plan step by step).

    It's an asset - you must try to salvage it if possible : )

    Sagar
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  • Profile picture of the author FrankMiller
    True, I might have to do some work with it..

    They are mostly taking a from a humor website.. I don't have much on them.. but maybe I can start segmenting the list a bit..
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      ok there is the person that is bored with a $10,000 a year site... and now someone that has amassed a 20,000 double op list that wants to just chuck it??

      I will tell you what. Send your list just 1 e-mail.

      Title: I'm a Loser, Go Ahead and Shoot Me!

      Hi,

      I know I have not bothered you much.
      You see, I have no need for money.
      I am sitting on a gravy train of profits.
      And have no need to utilize it.
      A
      It's simply not worth my time to even try
      to get the $150 a month I spend
      to maintain my list out of you people.
      S
      If I'm not making at least $800 from you silly people,
      It's simply not worth my time.
      S
      As a last ditch effort to get at least something from you,
      I am going to make a ONE TIME OFFER.
      I am talking very time sensitive here.
      M
      This offer will not last long.
      U
      There are no upsells, no next offers.
      This is 100% the REAL DEAL!
      N
      I currently have in my possession a solid
      20,000 member list.
      YOU are a member of this list.
      C
      This is not just ANY list.
      This is a Double Opt-in Top Of the line
      Under utilized primed to get pumped list.
      H
      I simply do not have the Interest,
      I do not have the Drive,
      I do not have the NEED for your money!
      !
      So like I said I am going to make you,
      The largest list in the history of
      list abandonment.
      !
      The biggest offer of your life!
      !
      The first person to hit the link below,
      and make a 1 time payment of only $800
      will be the NEW OWNER of this list.
      >>>> CLICK HERE <<<<
      !
      Thanks for your time!
      Signature
      Success is an ACT not an idea
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8923208].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author OrangeBull
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        ok there is the person that is bored with a $10,000 a year site... and now someone that has amassed a 20,000 double op list that wants to just chuck it??

        I will tell you what. Send your list just 1 e-mail.

        Title: I'm a Loser, Go Ahead and Shoot Me!

        Hi,

        I know I have not bothered you much.
        You see, I have no need for money.
        I am sitting on a gravy train of profits.
        And have no need to utilize it.
        A
        It's simply not worth my time to even try
        to get the $150 a month I spend
        to maintain my list out of you people.
        S
        If I'm not making at least $800 from you silly people,
        It's simply not worth my time.
        S
        As a last ditch effort to get at least something from you,
        I am going to make a ONE TIME OFFER.
        I am talking very time sensitive here.
        M
        This offer will not last long.
        U
        There are no upsells, no next offers.
        This is 100% the REAL DEAL!
        N
        I currently have in my possession a solid
        20,000 member list.
        YOU are a member of this list.
        C
        This is not just ANY list.
        This is a Double Opt-in Top Of the line
        Under utilized primed to get pumped list.
        H
        I simply do not have the Interest,
        I do not have the Drive,
        I do not have the NEED for your money!
        !
        So like I said I am going to make you,
        The largest list in the history of
        list abandonment.
        !
        The biggest offer of your life!
        !
        The first person to hit the link below,
        and make a 1 time payment of only $800
        will be the NEW OWNER of this list.
        >>>> CLICK HERE <<<<
        !
        Thanks for your time!
        I think you would have several takers.
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      • Profile picture of the author aprilm
        Okay, this had me in stitches. :p That aside, I, too, would definitely recommend you resurrect your list. It shouldn't be too hard. If it's been a really long time since you emailed them last, you can probably expect lots of unsubs and maybe some complaints, but, I think it is well worth it. Don't give up man!


        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        ok there is the person that is bored with a $10,000 a year site... and now someone that has amassed a 20,000 double op list that wants to just chuck it??

        I will tell you what. Send your list just 1 e-mail.

        Title: I'm a Loser, Go Ahead and Shoot Me!

        Hi,

        I know I have not bothered you much.
        You see, I have no need for money.
        I am sitting on a gravy train of profits.
        And have no need to utilize it.
        A
        It's simply not worth my time to even try
        to get the $150 a month I spend
        to maintain my list out of you people.
        S
        If I'm not making at least $800 from you silly people,
        It's simply not worth my time.
        S
        As a last ditch effort to get at least something from you,
        I am going to make a ONE TIME OFFER.
        I am talking very time sensitive here.
        M
        This offer will not last long.
        U
        There are no upsells, no next offers.
        This is 100% the REAL DEAL!
        N
        I currently have in my possession a solid
        20,000 member list.
        YOU are a member of this list.
        C
        This is not just ANY list.
        This is a Double Opt-in Top Of the line
        Under utilized primed to get pumped list.
        H
        I simply do not have the Interest,
        I do not have the Drive,
        I do not have the NEED for your money!
        !
        So like I said I am going to make you,
        The largest list in the history of
        list abandonment.
        !
        The biggest offer of your life!
        !
        The first person to hit the link below,
        and make a 1 time payment of only $800
        will be the NEW OWNER of this list.
        >>>> CLICK HERE <<<<
        !
        Thanks for your time!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8925764].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Raymond Rigney
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        ok there is the person that is bored with a $10,000 a year site... and now someone that has amassed a 20,000 double op list that wants to just chuck it??

        I will tell you what. Send your list just 1 e-mail.

        Title: I'm a Loser, Go Ahead and Shoot Me!

        Hi,

        I know I have not bothered you much.
        You see, I have no need for money.
        I am sitting on a gravy train of profits.
        And have no need to utilize it.
        A
        It's simply not worth my time to even try
        to get the $150 a month I spend
        to maintain my list out of you people.
        S
        If I'm not making at least $800 from you silly people,
        It's simply not worth my time.
        S
        As a last ditch effort to get at least something from you,
        I am going to make a ONE TIME OFFER.
        I am talking very time sensitive here.
        M
        This offer will not last long.
        U
        There are no upsells, no next offers.
        This is 100% the REAL DEAL!
        N
        I currently have in my possession a solid
        20,000 member list.
        YOU are a member of this list.
        C
        This is not just ANY list.
        This is a Double Opt-in Top Of the line
        Under utilized primed to get pumped list.
        H
        I simply do not have the Interest,
        I do not have the Drive,
        I do not have the NEED for your money!
        !
        So like I said I am going to make you,
        The largest list in the history of
        list abandonment.
        !
        The biggest offer of your life!
        !
        The first person to hit the link below,
        and make a 1 time payment of only $800
        will be the NEW OWNER of this list.
        >>>> CLICK HERE <<<<
        !
        Thanks for your time!

        What this person said. I hope you realize you are being made fun of? Because you see you have a "problem" as you think it is that most marketers wish they have. Now see I don't know if you are one of those people that post (if you had $10,000 what would you do) Stop with the hypothetical BS and either do something with it or hand it to someone that will.

        I will take over your $150 monthly fee to have your list. If it actually exists?

        Thanks
        Ray
        Signature

        skype id: raymond.rigney

        http://yoursystemrocks.com

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  • Profile picture of the author aceshigh888
    tell us a joke
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    EXERCISE: Take a deep breath, hold for 10 seconds, release. ..... There see you feel better now???
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  • Profile picture of the author Moneymaker2012
    Don't stop as you say you have decent plans for your list then keep then eating but if you think the list is dead then just close your account.
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    • Profile picture of the author Charmed Life
      Hiya Frank,
      In one of your replies you say "maybe I can send them something though." You came across to me as sounding as if you just don't care. You have a huge potential here to grow your business exponentially, and yet, you sound like you can't be bothered to do anything about it. Come on!! You've achieved a list of over 20 thousand people, that's fantastic!! You should be proud of what you've achieved and eager to see what you can do to build on that, not thinking about giving it up and walking away!

      The reason everyone says that "the money is in the list", is because it's true!! Of course, this depends on how you handle your list though. You can't change the fact that you haven't communicated with your list much, but you don't want to go from one extreme to the other and start sending daily emails either.

      I would suggest that you start sending them a weekly email and track what your open and click through rates are like. This will let you know how responsive your list is, whether you can build a relationship with your list and improve their responsiveness, or whether your list is completely dead. Don't try to sell them anything right away, but instead, send out emails with a brief introduction to an article of interest with a link to that article, your latest blog or something similar. On the fourth week you could then send out a sales email (if you've had a reasonable open and click through rate on your other emails) and see what the potential is to make money from your list.

      I think you would be doing yourself a huge dis-service if you didn't even try. You have nothing to lose doing it this way, but you do have everything to gain if you get responses. Either way, you will then know for sure whether you should ditch your list or start using it properly to build relationships with them and make some money Why not give it a go and then come back here and share what you did and what happened? I'm sure you will be sharing some great news and results with us all very soon
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by Charmed Life View Post

        You can't change the fact that you haven't communicated with your list much, but you don't want to go from one extreme to the other and start sending daily emails either.
        I think it will take more than weekly emails to revive people who forgot who the sender is because he never mails them.

        My question then, is why not go from one extreme to the other? These women signed up for humor, so give them a daily dose; there is no reason to be parsimonious about it, imo. I suspect a weekly email to a list that's forgotten you, would take a month just to get them to start recalling who it's from.

        If he revives it with a self deprecating funny apology, and explains that he's going to make it up by giving them a daily laugh, they will start getting used to him in a few days, not just remembering who he is, but expecting the humor.
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  • Profile picture of the author OnlineAddict
    You say its not targetted...but it is...you say its mostly 35+ women...that means you have people buying everything beauty related...seriously everything, without thinking much...no offence, ladies.
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    From1toMillion.com

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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by OnlineAddict View Post

      You say its not targetted...but it is...you say its mostly 35+ women...that means you have people buying everything beauty related...seriously everything, without thinking much...no offence, ladies.
      Its even worse than that... This is the Holy Grail of online demographics. without question the hardest demographic to get on a single in list, let alone a double opt in.

      This list could be an easy $1.00 per user conversion, and it is just sitting there. What a flippin waste.
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      Success is an ACT not an idea
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  • Profile picture of the author megamind22
    Personally if I were you I will convert the list into a solo ad biz on its own than just leaving them there lose value.

    It doesn't matter what niche you build the list from. Everyone wants to make some extra money online or from home and there are quite a few solo ad providers that are making a recent income online for just selling clicks to online marketers.

    Anyway it's really your choice though on what you want to do with it
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  • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
    Are you serious? You have to be joking. A list like that, even an old list, is a six figure income easy. But, if it's not your thing, I would consider selling the whole account to someone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author Old-Man-Of-Hoy
    What! come on man, start sending the list promotional emails pronto! No stories here, no long tales, just focus and start making money. I still cant believe this!
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  • Profile picture of the author FrankMiller
    Thanks for the replies. I mean, I know its valuable, thats why I built it, but I had other income sources I was working on so it kinda went by the wayside.

    I guess I just don't know where to start/what to even offer them.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post

      Thanks for the replies. I mean, I know its valuable, thats why I built it, but I had other income sources I was working on so it kinda went by the wayside.

      I guess I just don't know where to start/what to even offer them.
      You were busy with other income sources that you couldn't take a few hours a week to work this?

      Can you honestly tell me that these "Other" sources were/are making you $10,000 a month?

      By everything you have mentioned about this list, that is EXACTLY what it is, and its not worth the little time? You already have the list, that's the hard part... All you had to do was write some e-mails with jokes in them and have a section called "All Joking aside" and make a pitch.

      Go onto Amazon or something and find a $400 Gucci purse or something.
      Find some high dollar weight loss program
      Find some stupid $40 gag gift

      SOMETHING for goodness sakes.

      Do you understand in the REAL world, business owners are working with 80% overhead to earn a living. You on the other hand are dealing with what $160? And you cant find the time? that is TRAGIC at the very least.

      Dude seriously get a day job.
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author salegurus
        Originally Posted by absolutelee View Post

        I would consider selling the whole account to someone else.
        Yeah and i'm sure the people who opted in to OP's list would love their contact info being sold on to a third party...
        You might want to check with Aweber first....
        Signature
        Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

        ― George Carlin
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        • Profile picture of the author Coby
          Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

          Yeah and i'm sure the people who opted in to OP's list would love their contact info being sold on to a third party...
          You might want to check with Aweber first....
          Aweber allows you to sell your lists as you please.

          You can sell the whole account or just a segment. If selling just a segment - Aweber will help you transfer the segment to another Aweber user. If you sell the whole account they have no problem with that either. The new user just inputs their details in place of your own.

          This is a business. A list is a business asset. Why wouldn't they let you sell it?

          Even if Aweber did not allow the transfer of accounts you can still sell the CSV file.

          As far as legality is concerned that all depends on the privacy policy shown on the page the person opts-in to and the "subscribers" feelings have nothing to do with that.

          Lots of marketers structure their privacy policy in a way that allows them to sell or co-reg their subscribers information. Is this ethical? (that somewhat depends on what the privacy policy says). Is it still legal? Yes!

          Cheers,
          Coby
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          • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
            Originally Posted by Coby View Post

            Aweber allows you to sell your lists as you please.

            You can sell the whole account or just a segment. If selling just a segment - Aweber will help you transfer the segment to another Aweber user. If you sell the whole account they have no problem with that either. The new user just inputs their details in place of your own.

            This is a business. A list is a business asset. Why wouldn't they let you sell it?

            Even if Aweber did not allow the transfer of accounts you can still sell the CSV file.

            As far as legality is concerned that all depends on the privacy policy shown on the page the person opts-in to and the "subscribers" feelings have nothing to do with that.

            Lots of marketers structure their privacy policy in a way that allows them to sell or co-reg their subscribers information. Is this ethical? (that somewhat depends on what the privacy policy says). Is it still legal? Yes!

            Cheers,
            Coby
            Yes, it is no different to selling a Business where the Customer List is being sold to the new business Owner.

            Re Aweber:
            AWeber perform their transfers using their internal support staff to ensure that no spam lists are being passed around from one account to another, and that the list is not being stolen by a hacker.
            You will need to provide help(at)aweber.com the following details
            · Your AWeber account details
            · The name of the list that needs to move
            · The buyer’s login name
            · The last 4 digits of their credit card that they use on their account
            Once you have provided that info, then AWeber move quickly to do the transfer

            Re selling as a CSV File. Now this would present a problem unless you have your own hosted Auto Responder, as most AR Companies require you to send a re-optin email, an the majority of the list would not optin again. You could use a mailing program like Group Mail or Interspire Marketer, similar to AR's but you own an control the software hosted on your own or shared servers.

            Lindy
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            • Profile picture of the author Coby
              Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

              Re selling as a CSV File. Now this would present a problem unless you have your own hosted Auto Responder, as most AR Companies require you to send a re-optin email, an the majority of the list would not optin again. You could use a mailing program like Group Mail or Interspire Marketer, similar to AR's but you own an control the software hosted on your own or shared servers.

              Lindy
              Yes, this is true.

              But we are talking about SELLING lists and not buying them.

              Obviously if someone buys a CSV file they will need a way to email them and it would be hard to import that list to many autoresponder providers.

              However, someone buying a CSV file is likely already aware of this and it really has no bearing on the topic at hand since we are talking about selling a list and not buying a list.

              Cheers,
              Coby
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        • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
          Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

          Yeah and i'm sure the people who opted in to OP's list would love their contact info being sold on to a third party...
          You might want to check with Aweber first....
          So, you're telling me if you started a business. Built a list. Hosted the list on Aweber. Sold the business lock stock and barrel, that you couldn't include the whole Aweber account with that sale? Not talking about selling the emails, here. That's different. I'm talking about selling the account, which is a business asset.
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          • Profile picture of the author OrangeBull
            Originally Posted by absolutelee View Post

            So, you're telling me if you started a business. Built a list. Hosted the list on Aweber. Sold the business lock stock and barrel, that you couldn't include the whole Aweber account with that sale? Not talking about selling the emails, here. That's different. I'm talking about selling the account, which is a business asset.
            I'm pretty sure you're right that a business can sell their assets.
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          • Profile picture of the author salegurus
            Originally Posted by absolutelee View Post

            So, you're telling me if you started a business. Built a list. Hosted the list on Aweber. Sold the business lock stock and barrel, that you couldn't include the whole Aweber account with that sale? Not talking about selling the emails, here. That's different. I'm talking about selling the account, which is a business asset.
            OK, i was under the impression you were talking about selling the "list" AKA emails,contact info...
            Signature
            Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

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      • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        You were busy with other income sources that you couldn't take a few hours a week to work this?

        Can you honestly tell me that these "Other" sources were/are making you $10,000 a month?

        By everything you have mentioned about this list, that is EXACTLY what it is, and its not worth the little time? You already have the list, that's the hard part... All you had to do was write some e-mails with jokes in them and have a section called "All Joking aside" and make a pitch.

        Go onto Amazon or something and find a $400 Gucci purse or something.
        Find some high dollar weight loss program
        Find some stupid $40 gag gift

        SOMETHING for goodness sakes.

        Do you understand in the REAL world, business owners are working with 80% overhead to earn a living. You on the other hand are dealing with what $160? And you cant find the time? that is TRAGIC at the very least.

        Dude seriously get a day job.
        I have a list of about 16K of internet marketers I haven't mailed to in almost a year and probably hit them up maybe 3-4 times in the last 12-18 months.

        This is what's left over from over 50K i've accumulated over the years.

        I'm on the same boat as Frank where I had other revenue streams I was focusing on that I didn't make time for this.

        And my other "sources" make me well over $10K per month.

        Does that mean I should get a day job too?

        Point I'm trying to make is that sometimes certain activities aren't always the best use of one's time.

        16K subscribers really isn't much especially since I never mail to them.

        If I were to mail to them today, and they all know who I am (if they even remember), I would get maybe 2-3% open rate if I'm lucky (roughly 320-480 opens) which will get me 40-50 clicks if I'm lucky.

        Do you really think it's worth the 5-10 minutes to get maybe 30 clicks from a broadcast?

        And based on what Frank said about his list, he probably wouldn't get much more of a response either depending on how old the leads are and how long ago he last mailed to them.

        They probably don't even remember getting on the list.

        He'll get a ridiculously high bounce rate and lots of complaints.

        He'll be lucky to get 100 clicks out of that.

        It's all relative.
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Do you really think it's worth the 5-10 minutes to get maybe 30 clicks from a broadcast?


          He is paying $150 a month, so yeah is it worth 5-10 minutes GIVE ME A BREAK

          30 clicks on a $5 item is all it takes, and he is even. EVEN is far better than a $150 LOSS.

          With thought patterns like that it is a wonder you are making $10,000 a year so yeah! get a day job
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          • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            Do you really think it's worth the 5-10 minutes to get maybe 30 clicks from a broadcast?


            He is paying $150 a month, so yeah is it worth 5-10 minutes GIVE ME A BREAK

            30 clicks on a $5 item is all it takes, and he is even. EVEN is far better than a $150 LOSS.

            With thought patterns like that it is a wonder you are making $10,000 a year so yeah! get a day job
            I made $50K+ last month with these thought patterns...
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

              I made $50K+ last month with these thought patterns...
              Now we are throwing money around.... you don't stand a chance. ( And that would be comparing to my web design business only )

              #1 that list YOU THREW away I would have worked into converting as many as possible into the list you think is better. Its called cross branding very effective actually! Oh but you don't brand, you just burn through 16K lists like the are nothing.

              #2 the moment you think 5 to 10 minutes is not worth $150+ you are full of yourself and need a reality check

              #3 why would you even bother spending the time and money building a list if you never did anything with it. Mr 20,000 dead list has paid $1800 last year to maintain a list that he never uses.. that is flat out STUPID. And for as little as what, 10 minutes a month he at the VERY least could have broke even. But he didn't have time?

              #4 The pair of you are breaking a cardinal rule in life.. ever heard the phrase "Don't put all your eggs in 1 basket"?

              How about "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"?
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              • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                Now we are throwing money around.... you don't stand a chance. ( And that would be comparing to my web design business only )
                I'm not comparing myself to you.

                Just wanted to point out that I'm not scraping by either.

                How about I give you my list I've neglected purposely for free, but only if you can show me what you get out of it over the next 90 days in detail.

                It's about 15-16K

                Put your money where your mouth is...
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

                  I'm not comparing myself to you.

                  Just wanted to point out that I'm not scraping by either.

                  How about I give you my list I've neglected purposely for free, but only if you can show me what you get out of it over the next 90 days in detail.

                  It's about 15-16K

                  Put your money where your mouth is...
                  ok so now the list you "Dumped" a few months ago you still have? Is there a bit of truth in anything you are saying? So you are guilty of holding a list and doing nothing as well?

                  I will stand to my word, and if it is a Niche I can help you with, I will JV with you 50/50 minus your monthly list expense. I don't have a problem with that. THAT is the reason I am here, to learn a bit, and help others out.
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                  • Profile picture of the author NeshSab
                    If I were you, I would invest in a good copywriter to help me create the autoresponder sequences (since you don't have any time for this list).

                    This way you can start engaging with your subscribers on autopilot, without putting any time and effort, and see if the list is worth it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    ok so now the list you "Dumped" a few months ago you still have? Is there a bit of truth in anything you are saying? So you are guilty of holding a list and doing nothing as well?

                    I will stand to my word, and if it is a Niche I can help you with, I will JV with you 50/50 minus your monthly list expense. I don't have a problem with that. THAT is the reason I am here, to learn a bit, and help others out.
                    I never said I dumped the list. I just stopped mailing to them because they became less and less responsive to the point that it wasn't worth the time.

                    It's an old old old list. Playing "guru" to them got old.

                    I like to fly more under the radar with my marketing now.

                    I've been doing this for a long time, I'll be shocked if you can get a few hundred bucks out of it in a month.

                    Unlike Frank, I stopped building this list a long time ago. Just holding on to it like its a souvenir
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                  • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
                    Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                    I will stand to my word, and if it is a Niche I can help you with, I will JV with you 50/50 minus your monthly list expense. I don't have a problem with that. THAT is the reason I am here, to learn a bit, and help others out.
                    Since you're so confident in your abilities, why don't you just buy the account and the data from me for half of what you think you can make from it over the next 12 months.

                    I don't have time for JVs. It will still be a 50/50 deal. You just pay up front.
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                    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                      Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

                      Since you're so confident in your abilities, why don't you just buy the account and the data from me for half of what you think you can make from it over the next 12 months.

                      I don't have time for JVs. It will still be a 50/50 deal. You just pay up front.
                      I take it back about the day job, well not really, just narrowing down the options for you. Sales are not your thing.

                      First things first. I'm not confident with my abilities, I'm consistent. One day hopefully you will know the difference.

                      Secondly, When attempting to make a sale based on expected earnings, statements such as "I'll be shocked if you can get a few hundred bucks out of it in a month." and "Playing "guru" to them got old." do not work in your favor.

                      Thirdly, here we go with the time thing again. I was going to set it all up, and you would have had to click "Send". But you again do not have time for that.

                      I have come to a rather amazing discovery. I really thought when people started digging holes, they would use a shovel. But you and your 20,000 list partner.... You go out and buy Excavators. THATS HIGH DOLLAR right there!
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                      • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
                        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                        I take it back about the day job, well not really, just narrowing down the options for you. Sales are not your thing.

                        First things first. I'm not confident with my abilities, I'm consistent. One day hopefully you will know the difference.

                        Secondly, When attempting to make a sale based on expected earnings, statements such as "I'll be shocked if you can get a few hundred bucks out of it in a month." and "Playing "guru" to them got old." do not work in your favor.

                        Thirdly, here we go with the time thing again. I was going to set it all up, and you would have had to click "Send". But you again do not have time for that.

                        I have come to a rather amazing discovery. I really thought when people started digging holes, they would use a shovel. But you and your 20,000 list partner.... You go out and buy Excavators. THATS HIGH DOLLAR right there!
                        I wasn't trying to sell the list. I don't care if the list gets emailed ever again. You were boasting "a list of that size could easily make 6 figures" and wanted to do a 50/50 split on the earnings with your uber skills.

                        So I figured since you're so awesome and you claim to make so much money that buying it outright would be a drop in the bucket for you and with your skills you would be able to make your money back and more rather quickly.

                        My day job consists of me taking one of my 4 kids to school, going to the gym, picking my kid up from school, and making money on autopilot while doing so...

                        ...Mostly as an affiliate selling things.

                        Actually it makes money for me all day every day, even when I sleep.

                        The only person I answer to is my wife.

                        I spend maybe 3-4 hours a day on my computer, some days even less depending on whats going on at home, mostly checking stats and planning my next moves to grow the business even bigger faster.

                        I'm home with my wife and kids all day every day and my business more than supports this lifestyle.

                        You don't know me and I don't care what you think of me, but I'd love to meet you in person one day so we can talk more about how we each make our money and how we can make more.

                        At the same time, don't need your approval, but thanks for the kind words. I'll take everything you said into consideration and maybe rethink my entire strategy since it must not be working very well according to your expertise. (sarcasm)

                        The only thing I would need an excavator for is to stoop to your level...
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                        • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
                          First thing - you boys that are fighting, stop it, or I'll be sending you both to the corner! lol.

                          Now Frank, I'm going to give you a little mentoring session, in public cause others can maybe take advantage of this advice too. It's not to make fun of you or to put you down, it's truly not, it's to help you.

                          I'm pretty open with what I say in the WF, some don't like it, most don't mind, but I'll tell you where I came from, cause it has bearing on the advice I give.

                          I was kicked out of home by my parents at 16, cause I got pregnant, my father's parting words were that I had wrecked my life an would amount to nothing. They didn't even want me living in the same town, I was an embarrassment to them an their church.

                          I couldn't even finish school so not very formally educated at all. You can likely tell by my spelling an how I say things. At 17 I was on my own trying to survive in London. I couldn't even get a full time job till I was over 20 cause I had to look after my baby on my own, an also cause of my lack of education.

                          When I was 24 I discovered internet marketing, I started selling ebooks on ebay, I made exactly $408 profit for my whole first year.

                          Then one night jus in a chat room I started talking with a Guy from Australia an found he was full time in IM, asked him if he would mentor me, he said no, he didn't have time except for a couple of chats. The couple of chats turned to a few, I pleaded an jus bout begged him to mentor me till finally he agreed, but with tough conditions. Every hour he spent mentoring me I had to work for him for two hours, if I stuffed up once that was the end of it, period, no second chances. I made sure I never stuffed up!

                          The end of this story, though there is really no end, over time we became close, I grew to trust an love him like a Dad I had never had, an Sherri loved him like a GrandDad she had never had. One night, I was 25 then, I asked him if he would be my Dad, an Sherri's GrandDad. I told him we loved him, he said he loved us too. He said yes. Now you might think that's a soppy story an wonder why I tell it.

                          Well, my Dad brought me into his Business, I left my job,started working full time with him, we worked up to 16 hours a day but it was fun, not like work. In less than 10 years we have built what we think is one of the largest privately owned IM Business's in the world. I mentioned our Affiliate Marketing Business gives us bout US$2 million a year, yet it is the smallest part of our IM Business's now.

                          So Frank, I know what I am talking bout!

                          I don't think we would be a lot different in age, I'm 34 now, from your photo you look like your maybe mid 20's or so - but you seem to me bit like a little lost boy - nearly want to give you a cuddle an help you find your way home. lol. I'm not being flippant, I want you to look at things you have said, in nearly every ne of your replies:

                          I suppose. $150/mo wouldn't really
                          Maybe I can send them something though
                          True, I might have to do some work with it..
                          but maybe I can start segmenting the list a bit..
                          I guess I just don't know where to start/what to even offer them.
                          True. I mean I suppose I can send them random offers, but like I said, it's not niche specific at all.
                          I guess I don't even know where to start with that though...

                          Do you see what I mean - suppose, maybe, might, maybe, guess, maybe, guess.

                          Now you could think I'm being picky, but if I said things like that to my Dad: suppose I can, maybe I can, guess I can - I'd be hearing a lecture for the next 30 minutes or so.

                          Their not words of any confidence, their not words for any action.


                          Then you said: "Realistically, If I could build this to something making $2k+ a month, it would be worth it, otherwise... I think it's a relative waste of time for me to focus all my mental efforts on currently"

                          Now if I said that my Dad would say I havn't bally used any mental effort, except he wold change the bally to something more Australian! lol

                          Then next you say:

                          Hmm... Let me ask you...

                          How much do you value your time?

                          Time is the most precious resource of all, much more valuable than money.

                          Personally, I value my time at $80-100/hour at minimum. If something isn't gonna give me that return, I'll likely find another avenue to pursue.

                          Your right there as far as we can't buy more time no matter how much money we have. I value my time too Frank, at bout 20 times your max, so listen to me,

                          I think your jus stuffing round, plain an simple. Or playing around if you want another word for it. Your not focussed, no direction, you built something that had big value, then jus burned it cause you couldn't see value in it or didn't know what to do with it.

                          Now it took me all of 30 seconds to see potential value in your list, an 30 seconds later I was making an offer to you. (my Dad would have been proud of me. lol) You didn't accept that offer an that's fine, I'd rather see you have the full benefit of it anyway, that's why I also gave you advice in a reply to you as to what type of offers I would make to them.

                          But tell me, did you start taking any action on that advice 30 seconds later? Or on any advice others have given you?

                          If your answer is no, then I'll tell you again, your jus stuffing round, like most people do, not only with IM but with their entire lives. K, maybe you have been able to leave a job an making enough to replace it, so what are you doing with your free time now, you certainly don't seem to me to be putting too much of it into your Business, like learning or thinking time, if you had you would have known what to do with that list. When that list was fresh Frank, it would have been worth $30K to $50K a month to me. To you it was worth nothing, an why?, cause nothing was the time an mental effort you put into it!

                          You obviously have ability to have been able to leave a paying job at your age, you showed ability in being able to build that list - you said I underestimate you. So prove it - start thinking for yourself, start learning more bout your IM Business - stop stuffing round!

                          My Dad an I both have a small photo sized card on whiteboard above our computers. it has one word printed in red on it, it says - THINK. I tell people to make their own card an put it where you see it hundreds of times a day. That is million dollar advice to you Frank, an to others reading this.

                          You might not really like my comments, specially in public, but if I didn't care I wouldn't have spent my time making them, so think of them more like hugs an cuddles - an Lindy showing you the right way home! lol.

                          Lindy



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                          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                            LindyUK,

                            Well said.
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                        • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
                          [QUOTE=jasondinner;8928608]

                          My day job consists of me taking one of my 4 kids to school, going to the gym, picking my kid up from school, and making money on autopilot while doing so...

                          ...Mostly as an affiliate selling things.

                          Actually it makes money for me all day every day, even when I sleep.

                          The only person I answer to is my wife.

                          I spend maybe 3-4 hours a day on my computer, some days even less depending on whats going on at home, mostly checking stats and planning my next moves to grow the business even bigger faster.

                          I'm home with my wife and kids all day every day and my business more than supports this lifestyle.

                          Hello Jason,

                          I jus want to make comment on part of one of your post replies. You are obviously a successful marketer an have created a certain lifestyle for yourself, but what I want to comment on is this:

                          "I spend maybe 3-4 hours a day on my computer, some days even less depending on whats going on at home, mostly checking stats and planning my next moves to grow the business even bigger faster."

                          You spend 3 to 4 hours a day working. What do you do with the other 20 or 21 hours??? An some days you work even less???

                          An that working time includes planning your next moves to grow your Business even bigger faster!!!

                          Jason Your Fired!!! that's what they would say to you on those reality shows, cause your clearly not really interested in Business - more like a lazy lifestyle!

                          An that's fine if that's how you want to live your life. But doesn't your Business excite you anymore? Don't you have big dreams anymore bout what you could do in your life?

                          I can tell you how to easily grow your Business's bigger an faster. Put more time an effort into them! Work at least as hard for yourself as you would have to do for a Boss.

                          Not many people would want to work long hours like we do on our Business's, we work 16 hour shifts through the work week. But do you know, when we have to go to bed we really feel we are missing out.

                          Or Business's really excite us, an not for the money, really we don't need to work another day in our entire lives. but we are constantly planning an starting new ventures every year, our staff threaten to kill us sometimes when they see all these new projects going up on the whiteboards. lol. But it's EXCITING an the more money we make the more business's we can start. Truly we must have bout 10 new Business's already on the drawing boards, only bout 4 of those on the whiteboards though, what we hope to achieve this year. we do value our lives an have to take those staff threats seriously! lol.

                          My Dad is 64 now an I made the mistake of asking him when he wanted to retire. He said he'd maybe think bout it when he gets to 110 or so. lol. He also said, your joking right? Do you think I'm going to sit round watching grass grow? Sometime later I told him I wanted to build a $100 million a year Business, an he said he'd have to be working to 100 to do that. So I said what's the problem then? you said you didn't want to retire till you were at least 110. That shut him up, he though I would have forgotten that little comment! lol

                          Anyway, jus my thoughts.

                          Lindy
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          • Profile picture of the author FrankMiller
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            He is paying $150 a month, so yeah is it worth 5-10 minutes GIVE ME A BREAK

            30 clicks on a $5 item is all it takes, and he is even. EVEN is far better than a $150 LOSS.

            With thought patterns like that it is a wonder you are making $10,000 a year so yeah! get a day job
            Hmm... Let me ask you...

            How much do you value your time?

            Time is the most precious resource of all, much more valuable than money.

            Personally, I value my time at $80-100/hour at minimum. If something isn't gonna give me that return, I'll likely find another avenue to pursue.

            If I am hoping for 30 clicks at $5 to break even, that doesn't seem like a worthwhile position. I would make more working minimum wage
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post

              Hmm... Let me ask you...

              How much do you value your time?

              Time is the most precious resource of all, much more valuable than money.

              Personally, I value my time at $80-100/hour at minimum. If something isn't gonna give me that return, I'll likely find another avenue to pursue.

              If I am hoping for 30 clicks at $5 to break even, that doesn't seem like a worthwhile position. I would make more working minimum wage
              OMG... Did you graduate high school?

              10 minutes

              $150.00 for 10 minutes

              that's $900.00 an hour

              AND YOU DONT HAVE TIME?

              Oh wait... if you aren't making 80 to $100 an hour its not worth your time.

              What in the name of Pete are you smoking?
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Lets for a moment get off of the crazy train. This is a CLASSIC example of a situation that is preached time and again in the Warrior Forum for good reason. GO WITH WHAT YOU KNOW. I feel for the guy... He obviously has skills, I will not for 1 second deny that. But he used his skill in a place he did not belong. He wasted a large sum of money, and I am sure a fair amount of time. On the surface he got TERRIFIC results, with horrendously negative ROI.

                Just your classic, I went into this niche because that's where the money is at, but what do I do with the list now?

                There are answers to this question.

                #1 You need to JV. In this case you laid out your audience down to the demographic. A JV could have been made, and money would have been good.

                #2 Post here that you screwed up, you have this huge list this is who they are... what can I do? BE HUMBLE. Hope and pray that a post such as LindyUK's pops in there and contact that person. Of all the posts to this discussion, she with out a doubt, would be the one I would be seeking help from. There is no question she understands your demographic, and by that alone she must know what she is doing. For goodness sakes you might learn something in the process.

                #3 Dumping a list for any reason is not something to stand up and be proud of. If the list didn't produce.. you need to start asking why? Sure there comes a point where you need to move on, but you need to really look at it, so you don't end up making the same mistake twice, three times.

                And that brings me to the biggest point of all LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES!!! Don't just sit there and shrug your shoulders and say "Oh Well" This 20,000 list in particular had the potential of $100,000 to $240,000 EASY per year.

                We are talking HOUSE huge mistake... that is serious stuff
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post

      Thanks for the replies. I mean, I know its valuable, thats why I built it, but I had other income sources I was working on so it kinda went by the wayside.

      I guess I just don't know where to start/what to even offer them.
      You said they came from a humor website, so send them funny stuff women over 35 tend to like. Research that if you need to.

      One pretty good bet is a lot will respond to humor which pokes fun at gender relations in a light hearted manner; making fun of how men screw up with women is often a female crowd pleaser.

      Then make fun of yourself, maybe relate it to one of the jokes about men messing up. In fact, take advantage of the fact that you did screw up in a typical way that women have pet peeves about; guys drop the ball a lot and don't call, leaving the women wondering if they care.

      Make it light, but ask for their help: "It's not you, it's me...". Then ask them to vote (in a survey), on what bonehead thing men do bugs them the most. Once they've done that, ask them to fill out a more serious survey about their interests "so I don't have to continue being a clueless man-cave dweller"

      Just some ideas; who knows, maybe some variation on that will work. Like we all know though, test test test. You never know what works until you do.
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  • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
    Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post

    So I have an aWeber account with about 20k double opt-in emails.

    I have never ended up mailing much to them.

    But I am getting charged about $150 a month. I had some decent plans for the list, but I never got around to using them.

    I would obviously save the emails in a backup, but I imagine I'd have a harder time reaching an inbox if I moved them to another server.

    So I guess my question is, what would you do with these?

    Should I just keeping eating the $150/month fee? Or just drop it?
    Hello Frank,

    You may be a Hyperactive Warrior but certainly not a Hyperactive Marketer! lol

    Would you be interested in doing some test mailings for us, on a profit share basis?

    We might also be interested in buying your list/account if it proved to be responsive to our test mailings.

    If interested get back to me.

    Lindy
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    • Profile picture of the author 4DayWeekend
      When was the last time you mailed them? What is your open rate?
      Do they click on the links within the mail?

      At the very least, if you can get some of these people to open your mails and click on your links, you can at least sell mail blasts to other marketers and make a profit on $150...
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      • Profile picture of the author FrankMiller
        Originally Posted by 4DayWeekend View Post

        When was the last time you mailed them? What is your open rate?
        Do they click on the links within the mail?
        I last mailed them in Feb 2013...

        Here's a stat from a segment of the list:

        2,878 subscribers

        343 opens (12%)

        343 clicks (I had 3 links to funny jokes/articles/pics,etc)

        22 bounces (0.8%)

        15 complaints (0.53%)
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Smart! Very smart Lindy.

      Joe Mobley


      Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

      Hello Frank,

      You may be a Hyperactive Warrior but certainly not a Hyperactive Marketer! lol

      Would you be interested in doing some test mailings for us, on a profit share basis?

      We might also be interested in buying your list/account if it proved to be responsive to our test mailings.

      If interested get back to me.

      Lindy
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Gold here...

        Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

        ...
        Do you see what I mean - suppose, maybe, might, maybe, guess, maybe, guess.

        ...

        Their not words of any confidence, their not words for any action.

        ...

        Your not focussed, no direction, you built something that had big value, then jus burned it cause you couldn't see value in it or didn't know what to do with it.

        ...

        But tell me, did you start taking any action on that advice 30 seconds later? Or on any advice others have given you?

        If your answer is no, then I'll tell you again, your jus stuffing round, like most people do, not only with IM but with their entire lives.

        ...

        When that list was fresh Frank, it would have been worth $30K to $50K a month to me. To you it was worth nothing, an why?, cause nothing was the time an mental effort you put into it!

        ...

        My Dad an I both have a small photo sized card on whiteboard above our computers. it has one word printed in red on it, it says - THINK. I tell people to make their own card an put it where you see it hundreds of times a day. That is million dollar advice to you Frank, an to others reading this.


        Lindy


        Like I said,

        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Smart! Very smart Lindy.
        Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
    It doesn't matter what niche you build the list from. Everyone wants to make some extra money online or from home
    Complete and utter nonsense!

    and now someone that has amassed a 20,000 double op list that wants to just chuck it??

    I will tell you what. Send your list just 1 e-mail.

    Title: I'm a Loser, Go Ahead and Shoot Me!
    Or you could make it, "I'm a clueless newbie that doesn't understand the value of cutting loose dead weight."

    I deleted a list of almost 18,000 subs. less than a year ago. In some cases, the money is not in the list.

    Would you be interested in doing some test mailings for us, on a profit share basis?

    We might also be interested in buying your list/account if it proved to be responsive to our test mailings.
    Hey Frank, opportunity is knocking.
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    Get Off The Warrior Forum Now & Don't Come Back If You Want To Succeed!
    All The Real Marketers Are Gone. There's Nothing Left But Weak, Sniveling Wanna-Bees!
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    • Profile picture of the author FrankMiller
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Can you honestly tell me that these "Other" sources were/are making you $10,000 a month?
      I don't like to disclose actual numbers, but...

      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Dude seriously get a day job.
      I haven't had one in 3 years. Don't plan on ever going back honestly.

      Originally Posted by RogueOne View Post

      I deleted a list of almost 18,000 subs. less than a year ago. In some cases, the money is not in the list.
      True. I mean I suppose I can send them random offers, but like I said, it's not niche specific at all.

      I have a very targeted list of 1,000 people in the "Self Development" niche as well. I think they are a more valuable list to have.

      Okay, well I've been convinced I should keep the aWeber account. I was doing some early spring cleaning and trying to eliminate recurring expenses that were starting to add up, but seems like this is something to work on!
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      • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
        [QUOTE=FrankMiller;8924990]I don't like to disclose actual numbers, but...



        I haven't had one in 3 years. Don't plan on ever going back honestly.



        True. I mean I suppose I can send them random offers, but like I said, it's not niche specific at all.

        I have a very targeted list of 1,000 people in the "Self Development" niche as well. I think they are a more valuable list to have.

        Hello Frank,

        Not niche specific? Us women are a niche of our own - we spend way more than an average Guy does on himself, plus married women fairly well control/influence the family budget with regard to spending.

        A 1000 person list in Self Development is more valuable?

        You have to be kidding!

        If that 20,000 list was fresh I would be really slacking if I couldn't make at least $20,000 to $50,000 a month from it. I have smaller lists making those figures. I think your likely wasted one of the best resources you have ever built.

        Lindy
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        • Profile picture of the author FrankMiller
          Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

          If that 20,000 list was fresh I would be really slacking if I couldn't make at least $20,000 to $50,000 a month from it. I have smaller lists making those figures. I think your likely wasted one of the best resources you have ever built.
          What kind of offers would you send them Lindy?

          And I think you underestimate my ability to build resources
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          • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
            ,
            Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post

            What kind of offers would you send them Lindy?

            And I think you underestimate my ability to build resources
            Hello Frank

            Well I'm certainly not underestimating your ability to waste them! lol. One whole year since you mailed to your list, an then it seems you jus mailed links to more jokes or funny photos. Would you like to tell me how much profit you made from that mailing? Geez! Guys! lol.

            I'm assuming you have a girlfriend/s or a wife, hopefully not both! So what do they spend their money on?

            Beauty for one, cosmetics an skin care for example is over a $400 Billion a year industry. Then you have clothes/shoes/accessories. Plus health/fitness/weightloss. Married women - you can add anything relating to children an pets. Plus maybe their Hubbies - but he comes last on the list, even after the family dog! lol. If your not married an don't believe me, jus ask some of the married Guys in this thread - I'm sure they will confirm the fact. lol

            So you have heaps of potential offers to make to them.

            Since you built the list from a joke site I would still relate to that, but I would create more a Mini Magazine in PDF format to deliver the content an advertisements. (or could be Online Magazine too)

            If your not familiar with this type of marketing I wrote a heap about it in a WF thread called: Amazon Affiliate Income - Is It Really Possible To Make Over 1000 a Month?. It wasn't my thread but I gave about 60 pages worth of advice in there outlining our Affiliate Model using PDF Magazines, which returns us around US$2million a year from our Affiliate Marketing.

            (The 60 pages or more were what some were telling me my posts added up to after they saved them in Word, not thread pages)

            Hope that helps.

            Lindy
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        • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
          Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

          Hello Frank,

          Not niche specific? Us women are a niche of our own - we spend way more than an average Guy does on himself, plus married women fairly well control/influence the family budget with regard to spending.

          A 1000 person list in Self Development is more valuable?

          You have to be kidding!

          If that 20,000 list was fresh I would be really slacking if I couldn't make at least $20,000 to $50,000 a month from it. I have smaller lists making those figures. I think your likely wasted one of the best resources you have ever built.

          Lindy
          Entire post replace by this: don't listen to me. Listen to Lindy.
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          • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
            Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

            No a gender isn't a niche; it's not even specific enough to be called a market, even if you narrow it to his list of over 35 years old. That gigantic portion of the human race is, like Frank said, not targeted at all; liking free humor still doesn't make it a niche since that describes most humans of either gender.

            What you could make if it was a fresh list is irrelevant. The whole point of the thread is the list is covered in rust. Frank can fantasize all he wants about what they might spend, but only testing will tell if they even stay opted in, let alone buy, after a year of no contact.

            I don't advocate spamming, but you might have almost as much response doing it, and just claiming they opted in and forgot, as saying the same thing truthfully. They wouldn't know the difference anyway, and whether they believe it is the first big test of how many drop off immediately due to the inactivity.

            It is very possible 90% will drop off, after his first few emails in a full year. If that happens, whether a decent percentage of the 2k left will become buyers is another unknown.

            Of course he should try to revive it, but we can't assume his targeted active list of 1000 in a rabid buyers' market like self development will be beaten by a 20k list not mailed in a year, composed of women over 35 known to enjoy free humor online.

            If I had to pick one over the other, I'd pick the one the list owner thinks is better, rather than second guess him on the basis that all women are great online buyers.
            Hello Greg,

            I think you miss the point completely, in your first sentence you are virtually saying women are not even a market! You termed it in "gender" but you were still referring to women.

            So tell me, what deserted island void of women are you living on? I'll get a ship an come an rescue you. Then I'll take you to a big mall somewhere, an show you women shopping! lol.

            You want to narrow the list cause its not targeted to your liking? Well geez, I think if the list had girls on it from age 12 or younger, to women in their 60's or over, it would be targeted enough for me. You don't think they would be interested at all in any of the specific product niche's I recommended to Frank? Like cosmetics/skincare is only a little $400 Billion a year market in US alone, bit petty on it's own I know but hey, women buy other things too, as I pointed out in my list.

            You think the Self Development market comes even close to the "Womens" market? As I said you have been on that island way too long, I need to take you shopping!

            Pick the list that the list owner thinks is better, rather than second guess him! Um, I think I know jus a little bit more than Frank does here.

            You are right in saying it is a rust covered list, in fact I love that description - a rusty list! lol. But say its like a rusty abandoned ship, you can still salvage it for some value. If he even salvaged 5% of it an bought it down to equal size as his Self Development niche list, I know the one I would be working on, an I'll give you a hint, it doesn't start with a capital S.

            The list might have evolved from Humour sites so you could label it an say its a humour niche list. That's not its value at all. It's value is in the fact that its women in 35+ range. I'm not quite there yet, I'm 34, but believe me, women don't stop spending when they hit 35+, if anything a lot will spend more on some things cause they don't want to look 35+. I'll give you more advice bout that next year! lol

            Lindy
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            • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
              Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

              Hello Greg,

              I think you miss the point completely, in your first sentence you are virtually saying women are not even a market! You termed it in "gender" but you were still referring to women.

              So tell me, what deserted island void of women are you living on? I'll get a ship an come an rescue you. Then I'll take you to a big mall somewhere, an show you women shopping! lol.

              You want to narrow the list cause its not targeted to your liking? Well geez, I think if the list had girls on it from age 12 or younger, to women in their 60's or over, it would be targeted enough for me. You don't think they would be interested at all in any of the specific product niche's I recommended to Frank? Like cosmetics/skincare is only a little $400 Billion a year market in US alone, bit petty on it's own I know but hey, women buy other things too, as I pointed out in my list.

              You think the Self Development market comes even close to the "Womens" market? As I said you have been on that island way too long, I need to take you shopping!

              Pick the list that the list owner thinks is better, rather than second guess him! Um, I think I know jus a little bit more than Frank does here.

              You are right in saying it is a rust covered list, in fact I love that description - a rusty list! lol. But say its like a rusty abandoned ship, you can still salvage it for some value. If he even salvaged 5% of it an bought it down to equal size as his Self Development niche list, I know the one I would be working on, an I'll give you a hint, it doesn't start with a capital S.

              The list might have evolved from Humour sites so you could label it an say its a humour niche list. That's not its value at all. It's value is in the fact that its women in 35+ range. I'm not quite there yet, I'm 34, but believe me, women don't stop spending when they hit 35+, if anything a lot will spend more on some things cause they don't want to look 35+. I'll give you more advice bout that next year! lol

              Lindy
              Very good last couple of posts Lindy; I love your story, and I see the kindness in your sharing of it, and also in the "tough love" for Frank and I. Your insight into many of his phrases is good too; I really hadn't paid it much mind, but you accurately saw the uncertainty running through them.

              I didn't intend to diss women; I love them all (except a few mean ones).

              I still don't think they or us men, are exactly a "niche", simply because niche means to me something far more specific than that, but you probably are right that you could sell many of them beauty products, etc. We don't really need "niches" to sell stuff to make people look or feel better.

              Assuming your life story is true, (and I have no reason to doubt) you clearly know more about marketing than I do, so I don't doubt your ability to sell a ton of stuff to random women. You won me over, and there is nothing I like better than "losing" an argument; it means I learned something. I read a cool article recently about the oddness of the fact that the so called "loser" of an argument is the one that gained insight or understanding. It's been proven to me how much of a "win" "losing" really is a couple times since, this being one.

              Thanks for chiming in; you seem like a kind and generous person, especially considering how you value your time, to take some of it to set us right. I look forward to seeing more million dollar insights from you!

              (you really reeled me in when you started the other post by threatening to send the "fighting boys" to the corner; spoken like a mom!)
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              • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
                Originally Posted by Greg guitar View Post

                Very good last couple of posts Lindy; I love your story, and I see the kindness in your sharing of it, and also in the "tough love" for Frank and I. Your insight into many of his phrases is good too; I really hadn't paid it much mind, but you accurately saw the uncertainty running through them.

                I didn't intend to diss women; I love them all (except a few mean ones).

                I still don't think they or us men, are exactly a "niche", simply because niche means to me something far more specific than that, but you probably are right that you could sell many of them beauty products, etc. We don't really need "niches" to sell stuff to make people look or feel better.

                Assuming your life story is true, (and I have no reason to doubt) you clearly know more about marketing than I do, so I don't doubt your ability to sell a ton of stuff to random women. You won me over, and there is nothing I like better than "losing" an argument; it means I learned something. I read a cool article recently about the oddness of the fact that the so called "loser" of an argument is the one that gained insight or understanding. It's been proven to me how much of a "win" "losing" really is a couple times since, this being one.

                Thanks for chiming in; you seem like a kind and generous person, especially considering how you value your time, to take some of it to set us right. I look forward to seeing more million dollar insights from you!

                (you really reeled me in when you started the other post by threatening to send the "fighting boys" to the corner; spoken like a mom!)
                Hello Greg

                Thank you for your comments. Yes my life story an figures I mention are all true, I have no reason to mislead people, I'm only giving advice that may help people. Have no other motive here, We are not in the Guru Business, not intending to try an get a following to then sell WSO's or anything like that, though couple have accused me of that in other threads.

                A few years ago we did run a Private Mentoring Membership Site, we had 400 Members paying US$250 a month each. We took everyone to becoming full time Internet Marketers with minimum $100,000 a year Business's in 2 years. Then we closed it down as it was very time intensive for us and our staff. We have no intention of going back to anything like that again.

                We have even reduced our Affiliate Marketing efforts, at our peak we were making around US$3 million a year from it. We went out of some niches so we could use key staff for new ventures. The AM part of our Business is now mainly run by jus 2 of our younger staff under guidance of one of our senior staff members who is a Supervisor, she also acts as the Editor of the Magazines we use for Affiliate Marketing.

                I think you still don't really agree with my views on the "Women" market, but that's mainly because you don't understand how we work. We do things very different to most other Internet Marketers.

                In Affiliate Marketing most marketers seem to be hung up on a method that is really years old now, doing reviews of single products an offering to their lists or on Review type websites that require SEO to try an get Google first page listings. We did that too, but years ago when it was something new an fairly easy to get rankings.

                But now I liken that to taking shopping experience back 200 years or so, where you might have say gone to a butcher for your meat, a baker for your bread, a green grocer for your veggies an so on. The modern day shopping experience for most is you now go to a supermarket that offers you all those plus tens thousands more grocery items. Or you go to a Mall or Superstore that offers you tens thousands of choices in products you can purchase.

                I give examples, like if a woman goes shopping in a Mall for a particular item, she will rarely jus come out with that one item alone. She is being offered so many other choices. I'v often threatened to take Guys shopping, you included lol, to show them modern shopping experience. The aim of the game in IM is to first have people buy online rather than traditional shops, but then also buy from us rather than another Internet Marketer.

                So I'll give a specific example of my "Womens" market thinking, an in Beauty niche that I have already mentioned, a $400 BILLION a year market in US alone. Now she certainly can go to stores in any city an find a large range of products. Stores in smaller towns the range is much more limited, maybe to a few hundred products. If the average Internet Marketer was promoting to her she would be lucky to be shown one single product that he has done his review on! lol. But I have an online store that has over 14,000 cosmetic/skincare products in it, all top name brands, at big discounts an free worldwide shipping.

                So now, do you think if I send a woman in there shes not going to run loose an have a great shopping experience? An come back time after time? An tell ALL her friends bout it too? An won't they tell their friends as well? An hey, I havn't even started to show her what else I have for her yet, I have heaps!!! lol

                Looks like your a Guitar player Greg. I am too, I play lead electric an sing, have had my own bands since I was at school, am pretty good too! lol. But would you like to go into a music shop that gives you choice of one guitar, not even any picks in there, they only sell one guitar! Great choice isn't it? but this is how lot of marketers think. We will offer them one product, they will really like that. Noooooo. lol.

                My Daughter Sherri is not even 17 yet, she left school end of last year so she can concentrate on her Internet Business's. She started her first website an Business when she was 14, encouraged an helped by her GrandDad. She has 4 Business's now, she made over US$200,000 profit from them last year, while running them while still at school. This year her aim is to double that an we have no doubts at all that she will. You will be interested that one of her Business's is for Musicians, like me she plays an sings too. But her Music Mall holds over 100,000 products jus for Musicians. Do you think if she gets a Musician in there they then go down to the little music shop in town to do all their shopping? Noooooo. lol.

                I actually used Sherri's Music Mall as the main example for my posts in another thread bout Affiliate Marketing. Savidge4 mentioned he had gone their an ready every one of my posts. There were a lot, would take a long time to read but if you or anyone else interested in our ways, jus search for the thread, I mentioned the name in one of my posts here.

                I better get to work before my Dad finds me jus playing round in here again. lol.

                Lindy
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post

        I don't like to disclose actual numbers, but...



        I haven't had one in 3 years. Don't plan on ever going back honestly.



        True. I mean I suppose I can send them random offers, but like I said, it's not niche specific at all.

        I have a very targeted list of 1,000 people in the "Self Development" niche as well. I think they are a more valuable list to have.

        Okay, well I've been convinced I should keep the aWeber account. I was doing some early spring cleaning and trying to eliminate recurring expenses that were starting to add up, but seems like this is something to work on!
        Try sending the 20,000 the same dang offers. Introduce them to what you have to offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Langham
    I would send the a mail or series of mails, asking them what it is they are interested in. You could get them to leave their comments on your blog for example.

    This could also be a survey as well.

    Once you have established what the majority of people are interested in, start sending them free information mixed with affiliate links from products you have checked out and can vouch for.

    In any case it seems like not such a good move to let 20K double optins go to waste.
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  • Profile picture of the author carlamae
    I say get some cash flow to at least cover the $150....you can always come back to the bigger ticket items if need be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew Trujillo
    Why would you spend your time accumulating 20k worth of subscribers if you never intended on mailing them and converting them? Did you purchase a list of 20k subscribers or did you build it yourself? 20k is a lot of subscribers if you built it yourself. If I was you I would try warming up the list if you built it yourself. If you purchased the list, I would not recommend mailing as that would be considered spamming.
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  • Profile picture of the author 8485marketing
    run some tests on the list and get a feel for what the open rate is and play around with some free offers to opt in to another targeted offer and then you'll be able to see what things specific segments of your audience are interested in. You can then try this out with some paid offers or even provide solo ads. seems like a waste not to utilise a list of that size (if they do open your emails).
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    • Profile picture of the author FrankMiller
      Originally Posted by 8485marketing View Post

      run some tests on the list and get a feel for what the open rate is and play around with some free offers to opt in to another targeted offer and then you'll be able to see what things specific segments of your audience are interested in. You can then try this out with some paid offers or even provide solo ads. seems like a waste not to utilise a list of that size (if they do open your emails).
      I guess I don't even know where to start with that though...

      Potentially funnel them into weight loss? And some into shopping deals?

      CPA offers? Clickbank offers?

      I don't wanna do little gift card offers or anything. Seems like it would just turn the list off...

      Realistically, If I could build this to something making $2k+ a month, it would be worth it, otherwise... I think it's a relative waste of time for me to focus all my mental efforts on currently.
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  • Profile picture of the author KyleMallory
    Since it's been a year since they last heard from you they definitely forgot who you are (at least I would). This is the main problem with your list that I see. Even if you do find something that interests them, they're likely to see it as spam. Some may remember you once their memory jogs, but they'll still be confused.

    I would try to send them some free offers or links to articles that the majority of women are interested in: beauty, weight loss, fitness, maybe money management, kids, and anything else the standard 35+ woman deals with regularly. You need to gain their trust to get them to pay attention to you.

    Aside from that, you can send affiliate offers and CPA offers, you may be best served by CPA but I'm not an expert. Also, be prepared for spam complaints...
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  • Profile picture of the author OrangeBull
    It's a Humor list, why don't you start emailing them REGULARLY, a comedian of the day. Sign up as an iTunes or Amazon affiliate and start marketing Stand-up comedy CDs.

    Or, once you've started doing that, see if you can't cut an affiliate ticket sales deal with some comedians. They are regularly trying to book and sell tours.
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  • Profile picture of the author eklipz316
    There are lots of things you can sell to a comedy list. You could try comedy specials, CDs, movies, books, ect. Comedy is a pretty big niche and it shouldn't be too hard to find a few things to offer them, and see how they covert. Test a verity of products and stick with what works.
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  • Profile picture of the author azulita
    wow, you have an amazing list. You said your list doesnt have like a specific niche. So what you can do is try to segment them. One day send free an ebook about for example "build a list" people who download try to send them to another list. So you can build yous list about people who are interested in list building. Then you can try with "affiliate marketing" and people interested to start a website then that can be another list. So I´m just saying, try to divide your huge list in different lists and find what they are interested. So in the future for you im sure you will make sales.

    I am surprise that you want to get rid of that list because for most of us that list is a dream =)

    Also you can contact Igorhelpsyousucced I had Heard really good reviews about him and he is an expert with the list.

    Hope this helps =)
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  • Profile picture of the author seonutshell
    Im pretty sure that you can pay $5 a month for Aweber to keep your account and list on freeze, but they dont delete the list or anything like that. That is what thy told me when they rang me. (It could have been getresponse, but i think its aweber.)

    Or, you could just use it for solo ads. People looking to get a headstart on there funny blog or facebook page would pay for a solo ad from you i think. Try contacting the Lad Bible on facebook or something.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Meno
    You should at least try to monetize this list. You could look up some offers on a CPA network with the demographics for 35+ women and see what the highest converting offers are.

    I wouldn't just abandon a list that big. Try a few different types of offers and emails. It really doesn't matter which offer you choose, but try something. You could also market a joke book from amazon, a course on how to be funny, or just anything. If the list just isn't biting, then yeah, just ditch the account.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    What made you continue to build this list if you weren't making money from the first 2,000 subscribers?
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Sell the lists to one of these dummies!
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  • Profile picture of the author KevinChapman
    I'd definitely try to make some money from the list before cancelling aweber, from a list of that size could earn plenty. Even sending clickbanks products for women 35+ could work well!
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  • Profile picture of the author richpeasant
    I recently wrote a short pdf satire based on all the
    how to make money letters we used to get in the
    mail before the internet.

    No email addresses are collected by me, although it is
    a system requirement to give one before download.

    It can be freely passed to others so if you would
    like to use this to keep things simmering let me
    know privately. I won't post any url here.
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  • Profile picture of the author alamest
    have you tried to promote anything to your 20K list.. if not try it out before it sending..

    What i would is that I would filter the them into different list so we can understand what to promote to whom...

    Filter it by giving some free offers and build different target list to promote your different offers..

    I hope you understood what I am trying to say..
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  • Profile picture of the author tyronne78
    There is something really good advice on this thread (and not so good) that you can learn from. Maybe you need some consulting. Have you ever considered going that route?
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  • Profile picture of the author malouisa
    Good for you having 20k email list. Don't waste this. Start emailing them now. You can make lots of money using this. $150 is just small compared to the money that you can make using those emails.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    There was a topic on here a while back from a guy amassing 15,000 subs per month but deleting them each month before Aweber charged him for them as he wasn't mailing them.

    Why bother building a list in the first place?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      It was never my attention to be mean. It was my intention however, to get your attention. In the course of this thread there have been 3 people say that have 54,000 people lists, that just went bad or they didn't know what to do with. And that is ok. But, the big question is what did you learn from it?

      I saw Lindy make a post a few days ago. She said some very interesting things. I Immediately went and read EVERY post she has made in the last couple of months. She and I market in very much the same way, with three exceptions. I target my products, she opens the doors to the mall.

      The other being how we get our product lines. I do 50% of the time use affiliate programs. But I will match a single program to a message. IE If I were writing about Weight Loss, the product I might target with would be a water delivery service. The article itself would be about the benefits of water intake. ( ding ding )

      The third being I control the sale from start to finish. My clients do not leave my web real estate to make the purchase. I work closely with my affiliate products to produce API's that allow for this.

      I have never in my IM career been a Amazon affiliate. I have never once peddled anything from clickbank. I deal directly with the source 99% of the time. If I am selling an information based product, it is of my own creation.

      I see the value in what Lindy does, and I am making some modifications in my delivery. It will be a technical challenge and financial expense, but I absolutely see the value in it. Having a client that is interested in "A" and then allowing them to look at "B" "C" and "D" is like OTO upselling without the steps. As she states, like taking a woman to the mall.

      This is very much in line with my idea of Branding. I have 4 separate lists. 3 weeks out of the month they get their own targeted e-mails. The last week of the month every list gets the same e-mail. A cross branded mix of my niches. It has absolutely amazed me how well this has worked. It literally increased my profits by 20%. It basically increased my reach, without the work of each individually, by joining them collectively.

      So now that you understand a bit of what I do, you can see why I was riding the issue so hard. To focus on one list is great. I get it. Maintaining a list is a pain. Try 4 of them, or in Lindy's case, what is it 9?

      Once a month all of your lists, would have enjoyed a few jokes, and the people on your 20,000 list might be interested in what you have to say about Self Development. This is using the resources you have in hand, to extend your financial reach.

      I just hope in all of this, those of you that have "Thrown" a list, see the potential you lost. ( In this case, enough to buy a house every year ) The gain in the whole scenario at this point is understanding the who what where why when and how the disconnect happened. As my Grandfather always told me "Self examination creates Self Determination" Look inside, learn from your mistakes, and come out stronger and smarter on the other side.
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      • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        I just hope in all of this, those of you that have "Thrown" a list, see the potential you lost. ( In this house enough to buy a house every year ) The gain in the whole scenario at this point is understanding the who what where why when and how the disconnect happened. As my Grandfather always told me "Self examination creates Self Determination" Look inside, learn from your mistakes, and come out stronger on the other side.
        I learned a lot from what I did or didn't do with that list, hence why it is dead.

        But I have other lists I make money with, just not that one. It's from a time when I did a different kind of marketing that I don't like to do now and I burned it out without replenishing it.

        The other lists I do make money with I take much better care of.

        One I don't mail as much as I should, the other I mail almost every day.

        However, I get what you were saying, just didn't appreciate your delivery
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

          I learned a lot from what I did or didn't do with that list, hence why it is dead.

          But I have other lists I make money with, just not that one. It's from a time when I did a different kind of marketing that I don't like to do now and I burned it out without replenishing it.

          The other lists I do make money with I take much better care of.

          One I don't mail as much as I should, the other I mail almost every day.

          However, I get what you were saying, just didn't appreciate your delivery
          Ill take that. And Ill go one step further. I was out of line a bit, and I apologize for being so. We all make mistakes.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    It seems to me that you have given your list a lot of free content but were too afraid to promote something to them. If that is the case, then it is time you start sending them promotions so that you do start to make money from that list.
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    • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
      Hello Joe Mobley an Savidge4,

      First of all Joe - Thank You for your comments bout me being smart. It's not every day a Blonde is called smart! Well my Dad says I am but he luvs me so he's biased! lol,

      Thank you too Savidge4 for your comments. So you read every post I'v made in last 2 months. You poor Guy! I'm a typical woman, when I start talking there's no end to it, as you likely found out. lol.

      I want to credit my Dad here though, he's the one who has taught me all I know, if I'm smart at all, he's the one who has made me that way. I'v had a huge advantage of being mentored by him and being able to learn from him nearly every day of the week for the past 10 years. We love what we do, we live an breath IM, still work 16 hour shifts through the working week cause it's jus fun to us, not like work at all. He still lives in Australia and I in England, so we work though our online conference rooms, with VOIP an WebCams. We only get to be with each other a few weeks of the year, I cannot wait for the time he moves here with us, then Sherri's an my life will be perfect.

      Yes Savidge4, we have 9 lists. the largest well over 100,000 the others each much smaller, but we have the advantage of having great staff to help us. We have 16 girls working for us here, we run 3 shifts a day so operate 24 hours to cover time zones in Australia, Europe an the UK. We actually have around 40 full time employees including workers who are overseas an sales teams in UK.

      I'm never shy bout stating our figures, not to brag or anything but to show people what can really be achieved in IM if you treat your Business as a real Business an not a Hobby. I'v already stated we make bout US$2 Million a year jus from Affiliate Marketing, but that's the smallest part of our Business now. Our turnover last year was jus over US$10 Million, mostly from Online/Offline (providing Online services to Offline Business's)

      10 years ago my Dad was making around $75,000 a year, an I was making $408 ! lol. That's what you can build if your serious bout your Business an have passion for what you do. I know not everyone wants to build multi million dollar Business's, but whatever your dreams you can achieve them, remember everyone starts from nothing, even Billionaires like Bill Gates an Richard Branson. My Dad has a saying: The Secret of Success is to Start from Scratch an Keep Scratching. So never give up on your dreams - whatever they are jus go an make them come true.

      Lindy

      AcesHigh asked for a joke earlier in this thread, an he never got one. I'm going to give him a Blonde Joke - an yes I am a Blond so I'v heard a lot of them. Hope you like this one:


      A Blonde, a Brunette an a Redhead have been marooned on a deserted island for months.
      So one day they are walking on the beach an they find a beautiful bejewelled lamp.
      They pick it up an rub the sand off it, an out pops a Genie.
      He says : I'm the Genie of the magic lamp an I can grant you three wishes, but since there's three of you, you can only have one wish each.
      So the Brunette goes first, she says: we have been stuck here for months, I really miss my boyfriend an my life, so I wish I could jus go home. POOF an she's gone.
      So then the Redhead speaks up: I miss my family an my dog, so I wish I could jus go home as well. POOF an she's gone too.
      The Blond looks around an starts crying, so the Genie asks her what's the matter? She says: I don't like being on my own, I wish my friends were still here. POOF !
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    The funny thing to me about this topic was the guys saying it wasn't worth their time to spend 10 minutes sending out a message just to make a few dollars yet they spent far more time on here posting and arguing about it.

    If the message hasn't been sent yet just get one sent to see what the outcome is. I don't know why it has to be such an issue.

    Send something out to see what the result is. If it's in anyway promising then think about how to go forward with it.

    If it's dismal then think about deleting it.
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