Aweber down for 2 days? Really?

156 replies
I can't load aweber.com . And ALL optin forms time out because aweber is dead.

It's doing this from my office. My home. My developer's PCs and so on.

Has anyone heard anything?
#aweber #days
  • Profile picture of the author Brad Callen
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    I would call them up but it seems to me that they have big technical issues.
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    • Profile picture of the author Myles Sinclair
      They say they're experiencing a DDoS attack. There seems to be a lot of that going on lately!
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    • Profile picture of the author taffie
      Yeah, I logged in here to find out if it was happening to me alone only to see this post first thing as I logged in.

      Wonder whats going on?
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  • Profile picture of the author intMarketers
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Mikaedi
    Apparently they were having problems over the weekend as well judging by some of the comments on the (Down right now site)..what's a DDos attack. a hacker or something?

    Mikaedi
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    • Profile picture of the author Myles Sinclair
      Originally Posted by Mikaedi View Post

      Apparently they were having problems over the weekend as well judging by some of the comments on the (Down right now site)..what's a DDos attack. a hacker or something?

      Mikaedi
      (Distributed Denial of Service) A DDos attack is bad news for anyone using a server affected by it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I have not been able to login. Glad I don't have a big campaign going on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Tayler
    Use your own mailing software and go through Amazon... no downtime at all
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    • Profile picture of the author 1byte
      Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

      Use your own mailing software and go through Amazon... no downtime at all
      So what happens when someone decides to do a DDoS attack against Amazon...will your mailing software work then?
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      • Profile picture of the author Myles Sinclair
        Originally Posted by 1byte View Post

        So what happens when someone decides to do a DDoS attack against Amazon...will your mailing software work then?
        It might be offline for a while. Depends on how quickly they could respond and mitigate the attack.
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      • Profile picture of the author geotargeted
        Originally Posted by 1byte View Post

        So what happens when someone decides to do a DDoS attack against Amazon...will your mailing software work then?
        That is not the case, he is suggesting using Amazon just as an SMTP server, not the platform. If you host your own platform, which I do, you won't have a problem like this.

        I use arpreach if you were wondering, it is self hosted, so there are no monthly fees either, just one hefty fee upfront. Well define hefty, its not really that bad.
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        • Profile picture of the author 1byte
          Originally Posted by geotargeted View Post

          That is not the case, he is suggesting using Amazon just as an SMTP server, not the platform. If you host your own platform, which I do, you won't have a problem like this.

          I use arpreach if you were wondering, it is self hosted, so there are no monthly fees either, just one hefty fee upfront. Well define hefty, its not really that bad.
          Hey, thanks for the clarification. I checked out arpreach, and for the standard price it is equal to about 10 months of Aweber subscription, so it would pay for itself pretty quickly, not counting the Amazon SMTP server.

          Can you tell me what Amazon service would be used for the SMTP server, and approx. how much does it cost? Thanks, Jesse

          P.S. Oh, and how does a system like this handle Spam complaints?
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          • Profile picture of the author geotargeted
            Originally Posted by 1byte View Post

            Hey, thanks for the clarification. I checked out arpreach, and for the standard price it is equal to about 10 months of Aweber subscription, so it would pay for itself pretty quickly, not counting the Amazon SMTP server.

            Can you tell me what Amazon service would be used for the SMTP server, and approx. how much does it cost? Thanks, Jesse

            P.S. Oh, and how does a system like this handle Spam complaints?
            Amazon has SMTP servers that they let you use. The cost is $.10 per 1000 sent emails. So sending 10,000 emails will cost you $1. It is called amazon SES.

            Spam complaints do go to Amazon and they track them to make sure you stay under a certain threshold. arpreach can process bounced and spam email complaints for you.

            Hope that helps!
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            • Profile picture of the author 1byte
              Originally Posted by geotargeted View Post

              Amazon has SMTP servers that they let you use. The cost is $.10 per 1000 sent emails. So sending 10,000 emails will cost you $1. It is called amazon SES.

              Spam complaints do go to Amazon and they track them to make sure you stay under a certain threshold. arpreach can process bounced and spam email complaints for you.

              Hope that helps!
              Wow, that is very reasonable. I don't have a list nearly that big, but for someone who has a larger list, I can see how the savings could really add up in a short time.

              Do you happen to know what is the threshold for spam complaints with Amazon, and if you reach that threshold, do they suspend your SES account?

              Thanks, Jesse
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            • Profile picture of the author mikemcdonald
              Just curious but isn't Amazon SES it's own email service? Why use arpreach? Can you create forms in arpreach or is that a separate service?
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    • Profile picture of the author T2007
      What software do you recommend?

      Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

      Use your own mailing software and go through Amazon... no downtime at all
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnZ
        It's terrible it causes any sites with an Aweber script to load crazy slow as well.

        They say " If you're website is loading slowly because of the JavaScript from your AWeber form, simply add the word "defer" to the script. This will resolve the site loading issue. Example: "...script defer type..." "

        Anyone try it? It would be a pain to edit a bunch of scripts and then I assume have to edit them back again.

        No bueno...
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        • Profile picture of the author 1byte
          Originally Posted by JohnZ View Post

          It's terrible it causes any sites with an Aweber script to load crazy slow as well.

          They say " If you're website is loading slowly because of the JavaScript from your AWeber form, simply add the word "defer" to the script. This will resolve the site loading issue. Example: "...script defer type..." "

          Anyone try it? It would be a pain to edit a bunch of scripts and then I assume have to edit them back again.

          No bueno...
          My web pages with Aweber scripts are loading just fine, but of course the opt-in forms don't show up.

          I agree: No Bueno!
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    • Profile picture of the author rajhu
      Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

      Use your own mailing software and go through Amazon... no downtime at all
      I've been wanting to go more independent for years. But then again when using Amazon you have restrictions that they put on you that you would not have to do if you completely managed your own email solution.

      In short, you're using someone else's system. Which is similar to just using Aweber. So why go through the extra difficulty and expense? (I'd actually like to know your perspective Brian. Because I want out of the Aweber limitations.)

      Either way, I'd be curious as to what mailing software you use.

      I was thinking of ARP Reach but they didn't have a way to handle the spam complaints properly. Otherwise I might use them.

      Thanks,

      Roger
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    • Profile picture of the author forekast
      Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

      Use your own mailing software and go through Amazon... no downtime at all
      I've been curious about this. How can I go about doing that?
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    • Profile picture of the author texan2011
      Originally Posted by Brian Tayler View Post

      Use your own mailing software and go through Amazon... no downtime at all
      I am using interspire email script with Amazon SES. It's working great and cheaper in the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author lightcam
    Yes it's a pain-in-the-A(weber)

    The same happened to Namecheap 4 days ago
    Namecheap targeted in monumental DDoS attack | Security & Privacy - CNET News

    I can't believe Google-news doesn't have any updates, no alerts, no nothing on the Aweber DDoS saga
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  • Profile picture of the author seanr70
    At the Aweber status page https://aweber.statuspage.io/ they have a quick fix if your using Java script on your page.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wack0
    I'm frankly amazed aweber didn't have ddos protection in place.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      I'm frankly amazed aweber didn't have ddos protection in place.
      I'm fairly sure they did. Spamhaus certainly did, and they got blown off the net for a while a few weeks back.

      The available firepower for these attacks just keeps growing. They've recently gone more toward zombieing servers, which make serious bitcannons.

      Sad thing is, most of this stuff could be prevented if server admins were more responsible about configuration.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        I'm fairly sure they did. Spamhaus certainly did, and they got blown off the net for a while a few weeks back.

        The available firepower for these attacks just keeps growing. They've recently gone more toward zombieing servers, which make serious bitcannons.

        Sad thing is, most of this stuff could be prevented if server admins were more responsible about configuration.


        Paul
        Hey Paul,

        Maybe you could go over and help them since there HQ is in PA. Seriously, this is not a good thing for windstreambusiness.com either, which is AWeber's third party security network.

        DDoS attacks have been going on for many years but like you say there is more firepower... and obviously more idiots.

        In the last few weeks there have been a lot of IM related sites heavily attacked. Coincidence or planned? Only the bad guys know I guess.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Janice,

          I would be worse than useless in this kind of technical situation. It's so far beyond my skill set that I'd almost certainly be in the way if I offered to do anything more than fetch coffee for the staff.

          Call me heartless, but I'm not driving 7 or 8 hours to fetch coffee.

          You're right about the available firepower. The most recent of the Very Big Attacks was able to generate a flood of 400 Gbps. For those who don't know the jargon, that's 400 gigabytes per second of data directed toward the target system.

          That one used a relatively small number of "control" servers (possibly as few as one) to generate the flood, by using a form of amplification that gave the attacker an enormous magnification of their efforts.


          Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author blueclcl
    This could take some time..I remember a well known forum having the same problems and it was down for at least a week.
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    • Profile picture of the author AntonioSeegars1
      Originally Posted by blueclcl View Post

      This could take some time..I remember a well known forum having the same problems and it was down for at least a week.
      A week is a long time in the internet marketing world. SMH
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph G Spiteri
        I thought it was on my end that i couldn't login to Aweber. Just didn't enter my mind that Aweber would be hacked. Just goes to show that no one is safe.
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        • Profile picture of the author GlenH
          For me, this extended problem with AWeber, really highlights how many of us are so dependent on third party application providers to make our businesses work.

          At least if I 'own' an application, rather than have to lease the services from a provider, then I have full control of it. Not some faceless group of people.
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  • Profile picture of the author jvm127
    One of my forms is still loading. The rest are not. Strange.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I had no problem opening my websites; they loaded fast, but I cannot open Aweber.

    It’s really tragic to see things like that happening to big companies. Imagine what is happening to many other sites not as powerful as Aweber…






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  • Profile picture of the author tpspress
    How much leads will we lose if they stay down or will they make it up to us, they just automatic took a payment today from me, so we see that the billing system is still working. Whats up with that?
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      tpspress,

      I would expect the billing system to be on a different connection than the production servers. That's just good data security for systems that handle credit card info and the like.

      I couldn't comment on the rest of your post, but that part, at least, makes perfect sense to me.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author gallus
        Truly weird, I do not have any aweber forms or an account
        yet my site is slow to load, and the add on bar in firefox states that it is awaiting
        forms.aweber.com.....

        I am going to deactive the plugins one at a time, see if that helps
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  • Profile picture of the author johnnieyost
    If you are using LeadPages with your landing page or optin, you're covered. Leadpages saves the info and will send it to AWeber when Aweber is back up and running.
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    • Profile picture of the author Devid Farah
      Just noticed that, the website is not accessible, hope it'll be back soon.
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    • Profile picture of the author chaotic squid
      Originally Posted by johnnieyost View Post

      If you are using LeadPages with your landing page or optin, you're covered. Leadpages saves the info and will send it to AWeber when Aweber is back up and running.
      Saw that on their site too, big relief because I just started a campaign using a LeadPages squeeze page the other day.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingBees
    All I'd say is this is NOT Aweber's fault!! So anyone saying it doesn't happen on XYZ needs to realise that it COULD happen on XYZ.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheKing
    ahh they are facing DDOS attacks, sad but also unprofessional that their servers are not strong enough to handle it
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    • Profile picture of the author Sergiel
      Originally Posted by punjabi View Post

      ahh they are facing DDOS attacks, sad but also unprofessional that their servers are not strong enough to handle it
      And unprofessional that they didn't send out a mass email to all clients notifying us to pause our advertising campaigns.
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      • Profile picture of the author heavysm
        Originally Posted by Sergiel View Post

        And unprofessional that they didn't send out a mass email to all clients notifying us to pause our advertising campaigns.
        But they're down so how can they do that?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        ahh they are facing DDOS attacks, sad but also unprofessional that their servers are not strong enough to handle it
        "Unprofessional?" Really?

        I have to say, I find the misuse of that word to be among the least professional things I see here on a regular basis. Is a law enforcement officer "unprofessional" because his bulletproof vest wouldn't protect him from the crushing force of a tank?

        I recommend that you sue whatever school(s) you may have attended for failing to teach you even the most basic skills needed to deal with a complex world. Notable among the lack, "It is unwise to express definitive opinions on subjects about which you know nothing at all."


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingBees
    Some of the biggest companies in the world have been hit with effective DDOS attacks so, like I said, not fair to blame Aweber.

    In the middle of last year, a DDOS attack brought down most of the Chinese internet!
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    Glad I took a backup of my leads yesterday!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sergiel
    Just my luck. Started a brand new PPC campaign and solo email ad campaign two days ago. Sent traffic to my squeeze page all day today for nothing. Not impressed to say the least.

    Could they not have sent out an email to all clients asap so that we could pause or cancel our advertising campaigns?

    I will be requesting some free months of Aweber service or I will be going to one of their competitors.
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  • Profile picture of the author PurpleFeathers
    Just found this: Is AWeber Down? Hackers Take Popular Email Marketing Service Offline With DDoS Attack
    Is AWeber Down? Hackers Take Popular Email Marketing Service Offline With DDoS Attack

    Aweber Status Page AWeber Status
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  • Profile picture of the author Complexxx
    They experienced a ddos attack.
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  • Profile picture of the author Moneymaker2012
    Yes you are right you are not only a person who facing this issue i was click on download link and after taking a long to load download page it shows " web page error".Hope they will resole this problem soon.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Kim,
      Yes you are right you are not only a person who facing this issue i was click on download link and after taking a long to load download page it shows " web page error".Hope they will resole this problem soon.
      If you don't stop posting repetitive drivel for the sake of sig file exposure, you're soon going to find you no longer have a signature. Or War Room membership, since removing that is required in order to turn off your sig.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author mbacak
    I've personally been in the position that
    they are in and stayed up for days next to
    my tech guys fighting attacks, sleeping on
    the floor, sitting in our data center when
    I ran a huge hosting company years ago.

    It's not FUN! At all!!!!

    That's why I wanted to inform you
    of a few things that may help.

    1. To check the status of there servers
    go here -> https://aweber.statuspage.io/

    2. Here's a fix for the slowness. The forms still won't
    load, but it should help your website speed:

    https://twitter.com/aweber/status/43...513600/photo/1

    3. Also from what I gathered, no subscriber
    data was compromised in the DDoS attack
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  • Profile picture of the author gsinfovision
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Brad Callen View Post

    I can't load aweber.com . And ALL optin forms time out because aweber is dead.

    It's doing this from my office. My home. My developer's PCs and so on.

    Has anyone heard anything?
    "Yes, no subscriber data was compromised in the DDoS". I hope thats true.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shawn Anderson
      Here is the latest update-

      DDOS attack

      Incident Report for AWeber

      An Incident Update Has Been Posted

      Our engineering team has the site coming back up. New IPs were configured that will need to be distributed across the Internet. Many customers are able to access their accounts again, web forms are being displayed, click tracking links are redirecting properly, and new subscribers are being accepted. If you are not able to access the site currently, it may take up to a few hours for the changes to reach your ISP. Thank you again for your patience as we mitigate this massive DDoS attack.

      Feb 26, 00:55 EST
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      • Profile picture of the author 1byte
        Originally Posted by entrepreneurjay View Post

        Yep they are back up thank god
        Nope, not for me yet. I'm going to bed now, and hopefully Aweber will be up by the time I wake up.
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        • Profile picture of the author mbacak
          Originally Posted by 1byte View Post

          Nope, not for me yet. I'm going to bed now, and hopefully Aweber will be up by the time I wake up.
          They said: "Access too accounts is beginning to be
          restored. If you can't access the site yet, it may take
          up to a few hours to reach your ISP."
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          • Profile picture of the author 1byte
            Originally Posted by mbacak View Post

            They said: "Access too accounts is beginning to be
            restored. If you can't access the site yet, it may take
            up to a few hours to reach your ISP."
            Yep, that's why I said I was going to bed, and I hoped it would be up again by the time I woke up, which would be a few hours from now.
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      • Profile picture of the author rts2271
        Really people? They are on Windstream. When your "Top Tier" email provider uses bailing wire and tin cans to build their infrastructure, your going to have issues. Awebers frugal decision making has now cost them. And if your buying this was a DDoS then I have a bridge to sell you.
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        • Originally Posted by Dv8MM View Post

          I tried that, and designing a new form, and entering the new snippet code in a widget. Didn't change anything, forms still not showing for me.

          I'm new to Aweber, it seems from comments on here, it maybe a case of "Just waiting" for it to sort itself out in your location.
          If you're using the javascript, try the raw html version instead.

          Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

          Really people? They are on Windstream. When your "Top Tier" email provider uses bailing wire and tin cans to build their infrastructure, your going to have issues.
          Not all online marketers are tech savvy enough to know every base they should be covering. Perhaps this is a reminder that we should be, but the condascending tone seems a little unnecessary.

          Originally Posted by rts2271 View Post

          Awebers frugal decision making has now cost them. And if your buying this was a DDoS then I have a bridge to sell you.
          Would you care to elaborate that or do you just prefer talking above everybody else instead of sharing ideas and information?
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  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    Yep they are back up thank god
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Szalok
    Still down for me...
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  • Profile picture of the author Moneymaker2012
    If you don't stop posting repetitive drivel for the sake of sig file exposure, you're soon going to find you no longer have a signature. Or War Room membership, since removing that is required in order to turn off your sig.
    How can you say that i am only post here for just showing my signature.I know english is not my mother language whats wrong with my post that you are saying this.
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  • Profile picture of the author M3C
    Still down.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Kim,
      How can you say that i am only post here for just showing my signature.I know english is not my mother language whats wrong with my post that you are saying this.
      You consistently post to multiple threads, almost every day, and say things which either make no sense in context or which repeat points already made by other people. Your posts very rarely add anything of substance or value to any of those threads.

      The very clear impression is that you're commenting without reading, for purposes of getting signature file exposure. It is sufficiently clear that 3 separate people regularly report your posts on those bases.

      The fact that English is a second language for you is not even relevant. You speak English far better than I speak any of the other languages of your country.

      What IS relevant is the fact that you persistently and casually waste the time and energy of the other people using this forum.

      If you don't have something useful to add to a discussion which hasn't already been said, please consider whether your comments benefit anyone but yourself before posting.


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  • Profile picture of the author Jtraits
    DDoS attacks are really bad but I guess they weren't fully prepared to have all that damage ... i respect Aweber and I think they are great but i`m not sure if they are that great on security
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  • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
    ZOMG, I'm back in!!!!! Woop! Woop! Woop!
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Mangan
    Yes, aweber is back online however, is has anyone tried sending out an email?

    I ask because, about 2 hours ago, I sent out a broadcast email to around 16K subscribers. My aweber account is still reporting 'sending'. I'm subscribed to my list and still haven't received the email I sent out.

    So, things aren't back to normal yet.

    Anyone else can confirm slow sending of emails?

    Robert
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    • Profile picture of the author chaotic squid
      Originally Posted by Robert Mangan View Post

      Yes, aweber is back online however, is has anyone tried sending out an email?

      I ask because, about 2 hours ago, I sent out a broadcast email to around 16K subscribers. My aweber account is still reporting 'sending'. I'm subscribed to my list and still haven't received the email I sent out.

      So, things aren't back to normal yet.

      Anyone else can confirm slow sending of emails?

      Robert
      My guess is that they're not 100% back online. While I can log into the the site, the form on my site is still not showing. Also, I bet that a lot of people just recently sent out broadcasts which might slow things down for a bit.
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  • They are still not online for me. But I'm in Southeast Asia and on a slow internet connection. Maybe the site is still just bogging...

    Still no form either.
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  • As a heads up, my form wasn't showing even once the aweber site became accessible.

    But I repasted the code and now it's working. So you may have to fiddle with it a bit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dv8MM
      Originally Posted by Superior Content Creation View Post

      As a heads up, my form wasn't showing even once the aweber site became accessible.

      But I repasted the code and now it's working. So you may have to fiddle with it a bit.


      I tried that, and designing a new form, and entering the new snippet code in a widget. Didn't change anything, forms still not showing for me.

      I'm new to Aweber, it seems from comments on here, it maybe a case of "Just waiting" for it to sort itself out in your location.
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      • Profile picture of the author FredJones
        What's the status right now? Can anyone load the forms yet?

        In my case, I am able to log into aweber.com - but none of my forms are showing up (stinks - I am in the middle of a launch today - could not have been worse timed than this).

        On my new launch site, I have added the aweber Javascript as "defer" so the rest of my page is not getting blocked because of it - just in case that helps anyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasOwen
    Aweber site won't load up for me, can't access any aweber links in emails either
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    • Profile picture of the author successradio1111
      I think we should pool together a bounty for the heads of those responsible for the DDos attack. I mean, what was the motivation for this...to hurt what is mostly small to medium sized business owners? I know a lot of us saw a dip in sign ups and sales yesterday..and my thinking is a hacker can't type without fingers...hahaha.
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      • Profile picture of the author rwsorensen
        Webforms weren't showing for me. I was using Javascript, I updated my website to us RAW HTML, saved it and my webform showed. Confirmation email sent correctly and my follow up started. Just a tip for anyone that had this issue.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dv8MM
        Still down for me (I'm in southern Spain). Developing a site locally, all good yesterday, but still no forms showing for me.

        Tried removing code/widgets and re-installing them, no luck, same problem. Links in yesterdays test email confirmations all working though.

        Emailed aWeber!
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        • Profile picture of the author mbacak
          I'm seeing a lot of people saying that they are still down...

          I have nothing to do with Aweber (and don't
          use them personally) but hopefully this helps.

          Looks like Aweber moved their infrastructure to a
          new DNS provider. This means it could be up to 48
          hours for accounts to come back online.

          It's a bit of a strange way to handle DDoS (If this was
          DDoS). Please be aware not everyone is seeing the same
          results. If by Thursday you are not up and running put in
          a ticket with Aweber support. I feel for everyone that
          is going through this... it's been interesting to follow.
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  • Profile picture of the author Igman
    Hey guys,

    Aweber lets me get into my account but everything is loading slowly.
    I was not able to create/send a broadcast.

    I'm connecting from Czech Republic.
    Is there any good news from other places of the globe?

    Thank you.

    Igman
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  • Profile picture of the author neevin2010
    First Click Bank now Aweber. I just hope the hosting services like Hostgator stays out of harms way
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Szalok
    I can access the main page, but I can't access my account since the attack. When I try to enter, I'm brought to a page that says my account is closed. I've raised a ticket, but I got only a general notification about the DDOS attack. I've replied to this message that I have a unique problem with my account. I hope the support team will help soon, and I can access my account again.
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  • Profile picture of the author kevin timothy
    I was able to login to my account as of
    2/26/14 3:15p EST.

    I'm sure whatever updates that was made
    will be beneficial to the end users.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marco Moeschter
    Yiha! Just checked my acount a minute ago and it is back! Hope it stay this way!
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  • Profile picture of the author Igman
    Here's just a quick update...

    My Aweber's account is working in a full capacity.
    I was able to broadcast to one of my lists, create several opt-in forms, and backup all my subscribers. Everything seems to be working smoothly now.

    Guys, don't be lazy. Go and backup your subscribers' database!

    Happy emailing to everyone!

    Igman
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    The reason so many posters in this thread were sweating out the attack is that they aren't prepared for anything going wrong and rely a bit too "Blindly" on the assumption that any service they pay for (or use freely) is going to work perfectly.

    Nothing online is, or ever will be, absolutely certain of 100% uptime, be it Aweber, [Insert Name of any 3rd-Party Service: ______________] or your own websites.

    It's one of the core risks of doing business online.

    If you're like most online businesses, you'll find that you're going to depend more and more on 3rd-party services in the future anyways - it's just the nature of the web today. It's rarely feasible from both the technical and financial perspectives to try and do it all in-house.

    That said, rather complain about what transpired with Aweber, you really should be asking yourself, "What should I plan for in terms of contingencies like this to minimize the impact on my own business activities?"

    For example:
    1. Do you routinely back up and store (securely) all data related to 3rd-party services you use?
    2. Do you have an (temporary) alternative service or system in place?
    3. Do you have a plan to smoothly migrate from one service to another?
    4. Do you have backups of your own sites/data?
    5. Do you have a plan to switch from one host to another quickly and seamlessly?
    These are just a few very basic questions to get you thinking about the specifics of your own business operations. Unfortunately, most people don't think about this stuff until it's too late.

    So, learn a lesson from this and take a few minutes each day to start preparing your own business for whatever contingencies may occur. It's not difficult and doesn't take long - but it does require consistency and careful planning.
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  • Profile picture of the author EPoltrack77
    and I thought it was me. I learned to have a backup.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      I learned to have a backup.
      And, unlike a lot of services and software, Aweber's backups are actually usable.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Just two days lol. I have people telling me they have been having problems off and on for 2 weeks. YOu must be on the friendly server lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    According to https://t.co/YGV0Knc38i , MailChimp was under attack last evening. Not sure if it's related, or still ongoing, but it would be interesting to have more details.

    Nothing on their blog about it...

    Edited to add: Looks like it took them about 10 hours to get it stopped, according to their Twitter feed. (@MailChimpStatus)
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Were all under attack, I just deleted 1000 spam signups from about four blogs and installed captcha on them. lol. even Target and the rest aren't safe.

    i was watching a government official on T.V. today and one of the questions was. Will be safer in the future. She actually said yes lmao.

    As long as we have security IT we will have hackers that work against them. All we can do is take precautions and then not guaranteed to win the race.

    Back up Back up Back up and don't use your own merchant account lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author seanr70
    Aweber is down once again, check status here: https://aweber.statuspage.io/ I'm done with them! Moving all my subscribers to Getresponse
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    GREAT SCOTT!!

    AWEBER IS UNDER DDOS SIEGE YET AGAIN!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author ovidiu
      This is ridiculous. They are ripping us off with their prices yet they can't handle a hacker attack. I'm switching over to something else.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        This is ridiculous. They are ripping us off with their prices yet they can't handle a hacker attack. I'm switching over to something else.
        Yet another reason to call them "zombie attacks." They get people reacting without thinking.

        Consider the goals of a person who would launch an attack like this. If they aren't trying somehow to get the data (which seems an unlikely end result for this approach), they're trying to damage the target business. How do you do that with a subscription-based system? Chase off their customers.

        There are other damages involved, to be sure. The costs involved in mitigating an attack like this aren't trivial. Still, the target is likely to be the customer base.

        The more effective they are at that, the more likely they are to do it again in the future. So, you're encouraging them with this line of response.

        That aside, nobody is immune to the kinds of DDoS attacks that can be launched these days.

        A recent attack involved a single command-and-control server and somewhere in the 4000-5000 zombied computers range. It directed over 300 gigabytes of data per second at the target system. There's a known exploit that would allow that same sub-section of a botnet to generate substantially more dataflow.

        Now, imagine a botherder using multiple servers and a large chunk of one of the major nets in a similar attack. You could be talking 10s (possibly 100s) of thousands of zombied machines in a concerted assault.

        The volumes could easily reach terabytes per second.

        I doubt there are any paid services you use that could withstand that kind of attack.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author ovidiu
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Yet another reason to call them "zombie attacks." They get people reacting without thinking.

          Consider the goals of a person who would launch an attack like this. If they aren't trying somehow to get the data (which seems an unlikely end result for this approach), they're trying to damage the target business. How do you do that with a subscription-based system? Chase off their customers.

          There are other damages involved, to be sure. The costs involved in mitigating an attack like this aren't trivial. Still, the target is likely to be the customer base.

          The more effective they are at that, the more likely they are to do it again in the future. So, you're encouraging them with this line of response.

          That aside, nobody is immune to the kinds of DDoS attacks that can be launched these days.

          A recent attack involved a single command-and-control server and somewhere in the 4000-5000 zombied computers range. It directed over 300 gigabytes of data per second at the target system. There's a known exploit that would allow that same sub-section of a botnet to generate substantially more dataflow.

          Now, imagine a botherder using multiple servers and a large chunk of one of the major nets in a similar attack. You could be talking 10s (possibly 100s) of thousands of zombied machines in a concerted assault.

          The volumes could easily reach terabytes per second.

          I doubt there are any paid services you use that could withstand that kind of attack.


          Paul
          Believe me, I've been thinking long and hard about this this week. What else can I do.

          Think about it...

          If you install your own script, how will the hackers find you? You're not a big name like Aweber or get response, nobody's gonna attack your script. If they wanted to do that, they would have done it by now, yet, your website is up and running while the mighty Aweber is still down.

          There are way better options than Aweber and I never would have tried them if this hadn't happened.
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  • Profile picture of the author 1byte
    Originally Posted by dghkmghkhuk View Post

    Has anyone heard anything?
    Just go to the status page here https://aweber.statuspage.io/ for the latest updates.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nickolie0990
    Yeah, I've been to that site listed, it says the opt-in forms are operational, but mine are not working?? I guess AWeber pissed somebody off big time. It's times like this where I'm glad I back up my list and have a self-hosted AR (ARPreach) and hand.
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  • Profile picture of the author 1byte
    The 3rd DDoS in 5 days!

    This is getting ridiculous, and costing people a lot of money. Come on AWeber, get a handle on this problem before the trickle of customers leaving becomes a flood!
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  • Profile picture of the author inboxtrail
    Sorry for everyone that use Aweber, been down for a while now..

    There have been tons of DDOS lately, they are not the only one to be affected. Also if you use your own mailing solution its great until YOU get DDOs...

    DDOS =- denyal of services, basically loads of fake traffic is sent to a host which overload the target server(s) putting it to its knee.
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  • Profile picture of the author dannco
    If this is happeneing to aweber, how are the emails getting through? Particularly regarding the latest WSO offers?
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  • Profile picture of the author makie
    I switched from Aweber to Getresponse 2 days ago and I am glad I did. I was already planning to change my autoresponder and the stuff that happened this pass week pretty much nudged me sooner rather then later.

    People right now that are loosing a lot of money because of this.

    No hard feeling with Aweber though their customer support was top notch and it sucks for them that they are loosing a lot of business because of whats going on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Igman
      Originally Posted by makie View Post

      I switched from Aweber to Getresponse 2 days ago and I am glad I did. I was already planning to change my autoresponder and the stuff that happened this pass week pretty much nudged me sooner rather then later.

      People right now that are loosing a lot of money because of this.

      No hard feeling with Aweber though their customer support was top notch and it sucks for them that they are loosing a lot of business because of whats going on.
      Getresponse.com seems to be down as well today.
      I can't reach their website.

      Igman
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      • Profile picture of the author jgant
        Originally Posted by Igman View Post

        Getresponse.com seems to be down as well today.
        I can't reach their website.

        Igman
        Yup, both GetResponse and AWeber are down for me too.
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    • Profile picture of the author 007bond
      My understanding is that Getresponse is having the same problem
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  • Profile picture of the author Dayne Dylan
    Banned
    People give up WAY to easily. That's all I have to say.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dayne Dylan
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Dayne Dylan View Post

      People give up WAY to easily. That's all I have to say.
      Like I said. Now all I can do is laugh at those who freaked out and moved over to Get Response. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author makie
    It would be crazy if Getresponse hired some people to mess Aweber service up to get more customers.

    Haha in the world of conspiracy my mind goes crazy!
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Szalok
    This is incredible. Isn't there any technical solution for Aweber to stop these attacks?
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  • Profile picture of the author Oliver13
    GetRespone:
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  • Profile picture of the author aprilm
    My Aweber was working perfectly last night and today, but now it's not working. I am getting emails from members of my list saying they want to click on the links in the email, but can't....argh.

    Anxious for this to be fixed.
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  • Profile picture of the author makie
    Now Getresponse is down haha, what is going on. Well time to go to icontact! lol
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  • Profile picture of the author MarketingBees
    To all those bashing Aweber and saying Get Response is better, try and loads Get Response

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-attacked.html
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  • Profile picture of the author makie
    To all those bashing Aweber and saying Get Response is better, try and loads Get Response

    Please Tell me Get Response hasn't Been DDOS Attacked...
    Haha I know but if I am gonna be without service I might as well save a couple of bucks using Getresponse.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clyde Dennis
    SOMEBODY is pissed! Wow!
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  • Profile picture of the author makie
    I don't know much about business networks of if there is anything like this, but they should make some kind of service, so if your business service crashes, attacks, etc. that everything would switch over to a new server or something like that, I guess a backup of some sort.

    I don't know much about the technology that goes into huge business type networks but this type of insurance would help businesses keep there business.

    It would probably be way to expensive to maintain that type of backup year after year and they would probably charge us a lot just to use there autoresponder service.
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  • Profile picture of the author softstor
    DDOS attacks are quite common today. Just about every corporate business has DDOS Protection installed on their servers. Aweber never thought they needed to.

    Aweber says they now have DDOS protection put into place. It is not working. Most likely their protection can only handle the smallest size attacks. If you have the protection that you need would not even know you were receiving a DDOS attack. The DDOSD services would filter the attack.

    I have ddos protection on my server and it has never been down for more than 15 minutes.

    These attacks that aweber can not handle will no doubt impact their business. They will be losing customers over this. This could have been avoided with the correct ddos protection.
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    • Profile picture of the author seanr70
      Originally Posted by softstor View Post

      DDOS attacks are quite common today. Just about every corporate business has DDOS Protection installed on their servers. Aweber never thought they needed to.

      Aweber says they now have DDOS protection put into place. It is not working. Most likely their protection can only handle the smallest size attacks. If you have the protection that you need would not even know you were receiving a DDOS attack. The DDOSD services would filter the attack.

      I have ddos protection on my server and it has never been down for more than 15 minutes.

      These attacks that aweber can not handle will no doubt impact their business. They will be losing customers over this. This could have been avoided with the correct ddos protection.
      Well said! I have been saying this also but for some reason people seem to think Aweber didn't need this protection because they are just an autoresponder service. Any web business should have security protocols in place to prevent this, since this has been happening a lot lately.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Sean,

        That's like saying a bank should be prepared for some random bus to drive by and have a dozen people spraying armor-piercing bullets through the windows with no thought of getting the money that's in the vault.

        Or that a convenience store, knowing that they're targets for robbery, should have walls that stand up to a tank.

        I don't think you quite grok the scale or mindless destructiveness involved in the recent attacks. You simply cannot be prepared for this sort of thing. Not while operating in a fiscally responsible fashion.


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      • Profile picture of the author softstor
        Originally Posted by seanr70 View Post

        Well said! I have been saying this also but for some reason people seem to think Aweber didn't need this protection because they are just an autoresponder service. Any web business should have security protocols in place to prevent this, since this has been happening a lot lately.
        In order to protect their servers on this type of attack the protection would cost more than $3000 per server per month. It could even cost more. Aweber has a lot of servers. It is very possible aweber did not want to spend money on this protection in order to be price competitive. This cost would need to be passed on to the members.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Lmao, I have a plugin I need to register to validate and it is setup on aweber for the validation email. Forever I have trying, everytime I remember to do it. Aweber is down again. Guess what, its down again

    I just need one second to validate the plugin, Just one. Cross your fingers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sergiel
    Really getting tired of wasting money on ppc campaigns that send traffic to a non-functional squeeze page . Unfortunately I am not able to check Aweber status every 5 min to make sure they are running so the better part of a day goes by before I realize they are down and I pause my ppc campaigns.

    I was already looking for other good auto-responder alternatives before this fiasco, simply because Aweber is very expensive imho. Has anyone ever used Monster Response and if so can you provide any feedback?

    Thanks in advance
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
    I know this is crazy... I can imagine all those who are pissed off that have WSO's on the first page, or those driving paid advertising to squeeze pages. I bet getresponse is loving this! They seem to be online at the moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    this stuff happens from time to time.

    not long ago, yahoo mail was out for a few days....thats millions of users...way more than aweber.

    amazons servers have issues too from time to time. netflix uses amazons servers and they have had several issues. a couple for over 12 hours.

    there really is no sure fire way to defend these sorts of things. you can only be pro-actively reactive. the attacker always gets the first move.

    i did a lot of consulting for hg for many years and its just a constant battle.

    i assure you, most people would be very amazed at how many of the attacks are snuffed out before they have any real affect at all. But sometimes defenses just arent enough.

    The big thing to learn is to have backups and alternatives services in place.

    i now run webforms that add people to at least 2 systems via api integrations. some of my core lists are even being added to 4 AR systems at once. Only one of which is doing 99% of the mailing, but the others are there are ready to go if needed.
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  • Profile picture of the author ATT
    How would you go about installing your own script ?
    What are the chances of being marked as spam when using own script ?
    There are way better options than Aweber >> what are those ?
    Cheers in advance for any information
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    • Profile picture of the author ovidiu
      Use Interspire as a script. 500 bucks and it's got everything. Apparently they also have follow-up split testing too. Then you use Amazon's Simple Email Sending Service to hook it up to send e-mails. It's white-listed with all ISPs. Boom, there's your Aweber.

      The best part is, Amazon charges about $0.10 per thousand emails sent. I estimate I will be paying about 20 bucks a month from now on as opposed to the 150 that Aweber was charging. I have 25000 subscribers which I constantly had to clean because, if I go over that limit, I suddenly have to pay double.. or something like that, Aweber's pricing page is down so I can't check.
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  • Profile picture of the author classifiedsearth
    I have been trying to check my Aweber Affiliate stats for quite a while now and did a search to see if it was down and came across this forum post. Leave it to the Warriors to have this on page one Google search. They should move over to Amazon hosting which will help them avoid this problem in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeRemington
    5 mins. ago I just got access to my Aweber Account. My account seemed to be taking longer than some that were already saying they got access.

    At the top of the page is a message from CEO Tom Kulzer regarding the DDoS attack. Here's the link From our CEO: About the Recent DDoS Attack

    Make it a great day,
    Joe Remington
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      ovidiu,
      If you install your own script, how will the hackers find you?
      They scan for form code and work back from that. Or look for the presence of default directory names. Probably other stuff I'm not thinking of at the moment, and more that I don't know about.

      I am not suggesting you should avoid making changes if you think they're in your best interests. Self-hosting is a perfectly good option. Just be aware that you're trading one set of vulnerabilities and advantages for a different set, and make sure you know what you're getting into before you pull the trigger.

      Jumping from one 3rd party list host to another because of a DDoS is a different thing. Especially in light of the size of these attacks.

      There are apparently a lot of companies being hit right now. Not just ESPs, either. From what I'm hearing, it's simple extortion. "Pay us $XX,000 or we'll blow you off the net" stuff. If those reports are accurate (and I have good reason to believe they are), jumping to another target is a crap shoot at best.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author ovidiu
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        ovidiu,They scan for form code and work back from that. Or look for the presence of default directory names. Probably other stuff I'm not thinking of at the moment, and more that I don't know about.

        I am not suggesting you should avoid making changes if you think they're in your best interests. Self-hosting is a perfectly good option. Just be aware that you're trading one set of vulnerabilities and advantages for a different set, and make sure you know what you're getting into before you pull the trigger.

        Jumping from one 3rd party list host to another because of a DDoS is a different thing. Especially in light of the size of these attacks.

        There are apparently a lot of companies being hit right now. Not just ESPs, either. From what I'm hearing, it's simple extortion. "Pay us ,000 or we'll blow you off the net" stuff. If those reports are accurate (and I have good reason to believe they are), jumping to another target is a crap shoot at best.


        Paul
        I've had the aweber scripts on all my sites for years, now, how come they never scanned me? With or without aweber, my chances of getting a DDoS attacks remain the same. In fact, they will drop because I won't be using the same addlead.pl form submit file like everyone else. I'm using a generic php form script which I can rename to anything I want.

        My sites are up yet Aweber has been down again just 30 mins ago. So I'm not jumping to another target, I'm getting RID of a target that's clearly been hit and, because of those scannings you were talking about, I was pointing right at them. Soon there will be nothing tying me to Aweber or get response or any of those big name companies that have been hit.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Ovidiu,
          I've had the aweber scripts on all my sites for years, now, how come they never scanned me?
          They almost certainly have. And they found out the data isn't on your server.

          That response tells me you're not ready for the responsibilities of running your own mail system. You will probably dismiss that comment, and you'll regret it 6 months down the road.

          Good luck to you.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author ovidiu
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Ovidiu,They almost certainly have. And they found out the data isn't on your server.

            That response tells me you're not ready for the responsibilities of running your own mail system. You will probably dismiss that comment, and you'll regret it 6 months down the road.

            Good luck to you.


            Paul
            A gentleman just said he's been using the exact same thing and he's happy. Plus, I have a friend who's been using this for 4 years and never had any problems. We will see, I haven't fully tested this yet, I need a few weeks before I make up my mind..
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  • Profile picture of the author inboxtrail
    Anyone using leadpages with getresponse ?

    The website is now up and running but when I integrate it with leadpages, leadpages still say getresponse failed ??
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  • Profile picture of the author dtul
    You guys switching just cause of this are overreacting. Like Paul has said, attacks of this size are incredibly hard to prevent, you just can't predict it. It was aweber this time, next time it will be getresponse, and the next time it will be someone else.

    Unfortunately these types of attacks are only going to grow. Just consider the downtime from them a cost of doing business and be sure to diversify your income so one attack like this doesn't take out a huge chunk of your income. Good luck to those of you affected, but look at this as just an example of what can happen and what will happen again in the future and have a plan in place for the next time.
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    • Originally Posted by dtul View Post

      You guys switching just cause of this are overreacting..
      Yup! That's what I posted the other day in response to those saying "HA HA Get Response isn't having issues you should go to them" and now Get Response is having issues. I stated that DDoS or ANY issue can happen to ANY provider/website. Sometimes on this site I'll be fine & then suddenly get "database errors" and after a few reloads I'm back up & running.
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      • Yes - there's another issue right now. And yes - other companies are being hit, also. I opened a new post the other day that another service I use was down when I tried to log into them, so it's not just Aweber.

        Here's my thinking - I have been with Aweber for 9 years and this is the first outage that I can remember. If I manage to move all my subscribers over to a new service, I may just be setting myself up for another attack by this hacking group. How much fun would it be to start picking on the next guy? Imagine all the new and transferred accounts you could upset when you're done with Aweber.

        I'll stick with Aweber for now to see how it shakes out. I may not have the size business of some of you and that affects my decision. How much time and money will it take for you to move somewhere else?

        My background is IT, so I know what is involved and I know small businesses don't have the budget to protect against these types of hackers. To get as large as Aweber, you have to grow your staff along with your security. Hackers will always be there to find the next crack to penetrate. Unfortunately, they're picking on Aweber right now; who will be next?

        And whoever said they don't have the staff to work weekends? Anyone can spread propaganda like that - it creates fear. Could be the hackers themselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sean DeSilva
    my question is why didn't they invest in heavy-duty DDos protection from the beginning? Aweber and getresponse are not small companies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Sean,
      my question is why didn't they invest in heavy-duty DDos protection from the beginning?
      What makes you think they didn't?

      Do you have anything but supposition to support that assumption?


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author softstor
        I think the DDOS attack #3 has started. Aweber does not have the protection they need to defend against these DDOS attacks and this may continue on and off for many weeks.

        I think when the dust settles I will be looking to closing my aweber account. Just one day is a major impact for me not to think about these problems to continue week after week.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Did they just get hit again man?

    #fml

    Where's that thread about whiskey
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Looks like Getresponse is getting hit too...
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    I have posted in anther thread this.

    While Aweber is down still, other companies are going through the same thing. One of them is Getresponse.com.

    I don't recommend that you move your services else where. I am pretty sure that both Aweber and Getrespone are both on this and are working to fix this.
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  • Profile picture of the author NinjaTech
    check it out. status.aweber.com they tell you its all ok..
    now getresponse is down too what the hell is happening to email
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    • Profile picture of the author ovidiu
      Originally Posted by NinjaTech View Post

      check it out. status.aweber.com they tell you its all ok..
      now getresponse is down too what the hell is happening to email
      Aweber down again for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Every service provider of any web based service who gets big enough to become a target will have down time from such attacks at some point...assuming the world keeps spinning around long enough. its has happened to all the big boys and it will happen again.

    The key lesson is to build redundancy into your business structure so that these sort of attacks have as small an impact as possible.

    Spend some time and a little investment capital to safeguard your business from these sort of things as much as possible.

    work out what your plan is if each of the core services you use goes away instantly. A good way to do this is to look at all your monthly expenses...hosting, AR, tracking, payment processor.... and have backups already worked out ahead of time.

    i also use a company called https://mybackupbox.com/ to keep server files/databases synced in multiple places.
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    • Profile picture of the author ovidiu
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      A good way to do this is to look at all your monthly expenses...hosting, AR, tracking, payment processor.... and have backups already worked out ahead of time.
      If I look at my recurring monthly expenses, Aweber is at the top of the list. I know some spend a lot more on affiliate tracking or on ad server but for me, as a small business, 100$ less per month counts. And Aweber positioned themselves as a company targeted at small businesses. If Amazon can charge 10 cents per 10k emails sent I'm sure Aweber can do better with their prices.

      By the way, Hostgator has full DDoS protection and we can safely assume that, should such an attack occur on me, it will not be of the magnitude that Aweber is experiencing.

      What security measures are used to protect my server? « HostGator.com Support Portal

      We can safely assume that Hostgator takes DDoS attacks just as seriously as Aweber. And if you're thinking that if such an attack would target my script, all my sites would be down, that's not really the case because I've installed it on a separate domain where I also have my JVs and my affiliate tracking software. If they hit me, they would target my JV site which can be quickly migrated to a new domain.

      And if you're thinking that they could DDoS the second domain and so on, well, in that case, we can assume that person is trying to take me down, in which case he could attack my sites right now instead of focusing on just my optin forms.

      Aweber or Interspire, I would be just as protected/defenseless in any case.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    ovidu, i consulted for HG for many years. They have been the target of many many DDOS attacks over the years that have taken many of their servers offline for many hours at a time.

    about 3 years ago the HG site itself was taken offline for over 36 hours by a DDOS attack.

    The planet datacenter in houston tx (which was the primary HG datacenter for years) was hit with a DDOS attack about 2 years ago that took thousands of sites offline for over 8 hours. over 1/4 of the sites hosted at HG were offline during that time.

    I am certainly not slamming HG...they have successfully defended thousands upon thousands of DDoS attacks with little service interruption, but to think that they are foolproof is just absurd and it show how little you understand about whats going on.

    DDOS attacks have taken companies like bankofamercia, gmail, yahoo mail, youtube, and amazon web services offline.

    DDoS attacks can, have, and will again take sites hosted at hg and many other hosts offline...again...assuming this ole world keeps spinning long enough.

    if your plan is to be with services that never get attacked then good luck with that. Thats not a plan.
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    • Profile picture of the author ovidiu
      I just explained, above scenarios where HG would be hit over and over again, what I would do in those cases, I don't understand why you would think that I said HG is foolproof? I stated the exact opposite.

      Planning to be with services that never get attacked? Man, I think you're reading someone else's post..
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      • Profile picture of the author ovidiu
        If you guys are worried to host your own script, here's an email service company that works specifically with Amazon's SES:

        OngageConnectâ„¢- Amazon SES

        50 bucks/mo for 200k emails. Add 20 more from Amazon's charges and you're still half price compared to Aweber.
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