Butterfly Marketing Site Pricing Structure/JV Commission Help?

11 replies
Hello all,

I posted this on the caterpillar forums but I never seem to get any help over there, so I turn to you, fellow Warriors, as you have never let me down. Okay enough brown-nosing and to my questions:

Anyone have any ideas as to pricing structure for products/OTO's, etc.? Here's what I mean:

Initial product - $47 ebook
OTO is an upsell to video package + ebook for $67

Here's where I get a bit confused. Now if the initial offering of the ebook should be $47 and the "retail" price of the video package is $97, I figure $67 is a good price for an OTO. What if I wanted to offer an OTO downsell of say an audio + ebook where the "retail" price would be $67? What would I set the OTO to, $57? That's only $10 off. It's not proportional to the savings on the initial OTO.

Second related question, I got an authorize.net account when I got BFM 2.0 (separate purchase suggested by Filsaime once we got BFM 2.0). I was considering using that for processing as well as the 1-click upsell. How do you handle affiliate commissions with that? Is there an Insta-pay method or is that only with PayPal?

Third and final question, is it better to use Aweber (I don't have an account but that's easily remedied), to use the built in mailer within BFM (I think it only does "broadcasts"), or a combination of both? I see that Filsaime uses both when you buy BFM and honestly I get annoyed because he sends out a broadcast and I get it twice.

Using the above as a guideline, this is what I would ultimately like to do but am not sure it's possible:

Initial offer $47 ebook
OTO $67 video + ebook
(maybe an OTO downsell)

I want to offer 100% commission to JV partners on the ebook but $0 on the OTO. This way they get to keep the full $47 and I make nothing on that sale but they are more likely to promote for me if they get 100% of the front end. I can settle for just the backend on that. Same deal with the downsell - 100% commission for JV partners and 0% on the backend. Is this what split-pay is? The idea here is that I'm looking to a) make a profit if I can and b) build a list as I have none.

I would like to change this to 75% or 50% for "normal" affiliates and again, keep all the backend for myself.

I would also like the ability to pay commissions instantly using the above scenario. Unless it really isn't that big of a deal to settle up once a month or whatever the normal structure is.

Is it possible to do any of this?

-Mike
#bfm #bfm 2.0 #butterfly #butterfly marketing #commission #marketing #pricing #site #structure or jv
  • Profile picture of the author Just_Mel
    Hi Mike,

    First I have to say (ask) - you really don't get help in the Caterpillar forum? That place is GOLD to me

    Ok. I just got the BM package so therefore I am a 'newbie' so to speak. But, I have a few ideas for you:

    - First, as far as your pricing structure, Mike gave a LOT of bonuses with this package, one of which were a lot of mind maps. They are GREAT! Have you looked at them? I have his for the order/sales process printed and posted right by my desk as a constant reminder. Going by that, here is what I would suggest:

    ~ Do you have a 'free' offer? You say the initial offer is a $47 ebook. Give it away for free. Then your upsell would be the video pkg for $67, and if they didn't bite that, the downsell would be the audio pkg for say...$37 - then the price is proportionate, right?

    ~ Give your JV's a set commission across the board. Why on earth would you want to reward them for sending people to your site only to cut them out in the long end? You say you want to build a list AND make money - then give them a reason to help you do both. As above - the ebook would be free, and the money is on the backend. This would benefit all around. It would be easier to get sign-ups due to the initial free value. Then everyone profits on the OTO when 'bit' on - and you will have a MUCH easier time building your list with a free as opposed to paid offer. Win-Win.

    REMEMBER - WIIFM?????? If that isn't familiar - read the manuscript

    You seem to be concentrating a bit too much on your front end. Look at the end goal, and build your business around that.

    As far as the rest, I know nothing, zilch, nada on the Authorize.net aspect. I DO know you want to avoid split pay w/ PP - they'll freeze your account as it is frowned upon.

    Aweber has MANY more functions than the script itself. Use it. Set up your crons so that you can broadcast to certain members if needed, but other than that, I'd go with Aweber.

    Hope this helps, & good luck

    Mel
    Signature

    "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." - D.H. Lawrence
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    • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
      Originally Posted by Just_Mel View Post

      Hi Mike,

      First I have to say (ask) - you really don't get help in the Caterpillar forum? That place is GOLD to me

      Ok. I just got the BM package so therefore I am a 'newbie' so to speak. But, I have a few ideas for you:

      - First, as far as your pricing structure, Mike gave a LOT of bonuses with this package, one of which were a lot of mind maps. They are GREAT! Have you looked at them? I have his for the order/sales process printed and posted right by my desk as a constant reminder. Going by that, here is what I would suggest:

      ~ Do you have a 'free' offer? You say the initial offer is a $47 ebook. Give it away for free. Then your upsell would be the video pkg for $67, and if they didn't bite that, the downsell would be the audio pkg for say...$37 - then the price is proportionate, right?

      ~ Give your JV's a set commission across the board. Why on earth would you want to reward them for sending people to your site only to cut them out in the long end? You say you want to build a list AND make money - then give them a reason to help you do both. As above - the ebook would be free, and the money is on the backend. This would benefit all around. It would be easier to get sign-ups due to the initial free value. Then everyone profits on the OTO when 'bit' on - and you will have a MUCH easier time building your list with a free as opposed to paid offer. Win-Win.

      REMEMBER - WIIFM?????? If that isn't familiar - read the manuscript

      You seem to be concentrating a bit too much on your front end. Look at the end goal, and build your business around that.

      As far as the rest, I know nothing, zilch, nada on the Authorize.net aspect. I DO know you want to avoid split pay w/ PP - they'll freeze your account as it is frowned upon.

      Aweber has MANY more functions than the script itself. Use it. Set up your crons so that you can broadcast to certain members if needed, but other than that, I'd go with Aweber.

      Hope this helps, & good luck

      Mel
      Hey Mel,

      Thanks for the tips. I read the BFM manuscript like a dozen times and it seemed to focus on giving away the initial product for free. I'm sure that could work, but I also want to avoid tire-kickers. I didn't see the mindmaps but I see what I did wrong - I was looking on the site that you download the script from. The mindmaps are on the other site apparently. I'll have to take a look at them.

      Your price structure sounds right if the initial offer is free. I'll definitely consider it.

      In answer to your question - I'm not cutting them out. How is giving 100% commission on the front end cutting them out of anything? They'd get the $47 for the front end product and I'd get nothing unless the customer takes the upsell/OTO. I thought that was perfectly fair.

      As far as split pay goes - you're not 100% right on that. PayPal allows split pay to one level. Meaning you can do a 50% commission split pay but not to any of the affiliate's affiliates. When it goes past the 1 level then PayPal will ban you.

      You make a good point about focusing on the end goal and not the front end. I guess I'm focusing too much on the structure of each individual piece and not how they fit together. Maybe I will do what you say and go with the free giveaway, upsell. Anyone else want to share opinions on that?

      I was just re-reading and split-pay is only with PayPal. That's the instant commission. I don't know why I got so confused on that. So I can use PayPal to pay affiliates instantly (using split-pay) or I could pay them monthly using either PayPal or my merchant account. Not much flexibility there. Can anyone give me any opinions on whether or not they think split pay is better than waiting to get paid?
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      • Profile picture of the author Just_Mel
        Hi Mike,

        This is taken from the Cat. Forum from May 8, 2009 (from stevenh77):

        First things first.. Don't use split pay. It's against Paypal's terms of service and if they catch you they'll shut you down (I don't know why it was never removed from the script.. but it's still there from before Paypal decided they had a problem with split pay). Aside from that, it can also create some customer service issues.. customers thinking they're paying twice for the same thing, or not knowing who to contact (the admin or the affiliate) if they need support.
        Do you know where in PayPal's policies that they state they actually DO allow it? I've been looking and cannot seem to find anything about it one way or another...

        I'd be really interested in finding out the bottom line on this one so if anyone could clear it up that'd be awesome!:confused:

        Thanks!

        Mel
        Signature

        "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." - D.H. Lawrence
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        • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
          Originally Posted by Just_Mel View Post

          Hi Mike,

          This is taken from the Cat. Forum from May 8, 2009 (from stevenh77):



          Do you know where in PayPal's policies that they state they actually DO allow it? I've been looking and cannot seem to find anything about it one way or another...

          I'd be really interested in finding out the bottom line on this one so if anyone could clear it up that'd be awesome!:confused:

          Thanks!

          Mel
          Here Mel,

          PayPal account holders may not split payments between a Personal PayPal account and a Premier or Business PayPal account by directing buyers paying with credit card to pay their Premier or Business account and buyers paying with PayPal balance or bank account to pay their Personal account. Any business payments that are split and made to a Personal account will be subject to fees applicable to a Business or Premier account. Personal accounts are for personal use only. If you would like to do business through your PayPal account, you must use a Premier or Business account.

          User Agreement - PayPal

          So basically what that states is that you cannot split-pay *between a business and personal account.* That's it. Those are the only restrictions. Now I've heard that people have gotten their accounts banned for doing multi-tier split pays and/or multi-level commissions, but there is nothing in PayPal's TOS about that. As you can see, though, it's clearly stated that you ARE allowed to do split-pay.
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          • Profile picture of the author Will_Surren
            Mike, I don't have the answers on the PayPal issue. However, when I was at the BFM workshop in Vegas last week, they did say that you could not do the split pay using PayPal because of TOS.

            Another thing. I am looking to partner with some other marketers that are familiar with BFM and are using the product. I would like to do conference calls with a about 2 or 3 others that would lead toward a partnership on a site. If you would be interested in this please PM me.

            As far as the OTO upsell and down sell commissions etc.. I agree with Just_Mel in that you want to give a portion of your product away free. This gets you the lead and back end sales for future. The upsell and downsell is where you want to make sure you are paying your promoters. Everything she is saying is what they taught at the workshop. Though I have not read the manuscript yet I do not she is dead on with what they taught.

            Will
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            • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
              Originally Posted by Will_Surren View Post

              Mike, I don't have the answers on the PayPal issue. However, when I was at the BFM workshop in Vegas last week, they did say that you could not do the split pay using PayPal because of TOS.

              Another thing. I am looking to partner with some other marketers that are familiar with BFM and are using the product. I would like to do conference calls with a about 2 or 3 others that would lead toward a partnership on a site. If you would be interested in this please PM me.

              As far as the OTO upsell and down sell commissions etc.. I agree with Just_Mel in that you want to give a portion of your product away free. This gets you the lead and back end sales for future. The upsell and downsell is where you want to make sure you are paying your promoters. Everything she is saying is what they taught at the workshop. Though I have not read the manuscript yet I do not she is dead on with what they taught.

              Will
              Hey Will,

              That's so odd, they said it's against the TOS? Are you sure that split pay itself was against the TOS or multi-split pay? Because it clearly states in the TOS as I quoted above that it's perfectly okay to do so. If I'm not mistaken there are even some WSO's that some fellow Warriors are offering that utilize it as well.

              As far as your offer for conference calls go, this is my first BFM site, so I'm not sure how much I could help you, but I'd be glad to talk to you more about it. Send me a PM with more information and I will see what I can do to help you.

              I agree. I think Just_Mel is right. By giving away a portion, the customer gets the cookie and then is hungry for more. I guess I'm just a little frustrated because I feel the product is very good (of course being the creator my opinion is biased haha) and I hate to give it away for free. Of course if it helps build a business around it, then I guess it makes up for it in the end.
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              • Profile picture of the author Just_Mel
                Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

                By giving away a portion, the customer gets the cookie and then is hungry for more. I guess I'm just a little frustrated because I feel the product is very good (of course being the creator my opinion is biased haha) and I hate to give it away for free. Of course if it helps build a business around it, then I guess it makes up for it in the end.
                I was in a very serious info-overload tailspin for quite some time, and decided my best bet would be to pick a mentor or two and just follow them, so forgive me if I seem a little biased toward Filsaime

                But...I'm gonna quote him again - don't fall in love with your idea/product/etc. This is a hard one for me to wrap my head around as well - when you spend sooooo long working on something and just KNOW that it's a winner and can help people - ya can't help but to love it and wanna do the most with it (and make the most!) - that you can.

                Sometimes maybe the best thing for you, and your customers, would be just giving it to them, building a relationship, and making them a customer for life b/c they trust you - after all, you just GAVE them a product that they ended up loving as much as you do!

                Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, goodness knows I'm still testing this myself!LOL

                Best of luck,

                Mel
                Signature

                "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." - D.H. Lawrence
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                • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
                  Originally Posted by Just_Mel View Post

                  I was in a very serious info-overload tailspin for quite some time, and decided my best bet would be to pick a mentor or two and just follow them, so forgive me if I seem a little biased toward Filsaime

                  But...I'm gonna quote him again - don't fall in love with your idea/product/etc. This is a hard one for me to wrap my head around as well - when you spend sooooo long working on something and just KNOW that it's a winner and can help people - ya can't help but to love it and wanna do the most with it (and make the most!) - that you can.

                  Sometimes maybe the best thing for you, and your customers, would be just giving it to them, building a relationship, and making them a customer for life b/c they trust you - after all, you just GAVE them a product that they ended up loving as much as you do!

                  Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, goodness knows I'm still testing this myself!LOL

                  Best of luck,

                  Mel
                  Exactly! See you understand what I mean. I guess they're right (I mean they are the experts, not me), but it's very hard not to fall in love with your own product. I poured hours of hard work into it. But yeah, in the end, it's a product. The solution is what I'm providing to the customer, and I can't be concerned about the vehicle that solution takes (the product).
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          • Profile picture of the author Just_Mel
            Originally Posted by LittleMike View Post

            Here Mel,

            PayPal account holders may not split payments between a Personal PayPal account and a Premier or Business PayPal account by directing buyers paying with credit card to pay their Premier or Business account and buyers paying with PayPal balance or bank account to pay their Personal account. Any business payments that are split and made to a Personal account will be subject to fees applicable to a Business or Premier account. Personal accounts are for personal use only. If you would like to do business through your PayPal account, you must use a Premier or Business account.

            (Link removed cuz I'm <15;-) - posts, that is! Seems it counts for quoting too!- Mel)

            So basically what that states is that you cannot split-pay *between a business and personal account.* That's it. Those are the only restrictions. Now I've heard that people have gotten their accounts banned for doing multi-tier split pays and/or multi-level commissions, but there is nothing in PayPal's TOS about that. As you can see, though, it's clearly stated that you ARE allowed to do split-pay.
            This is a much debated topic it seems - for me, I think I'd rather do mass pay once or twice a month - instead of getting shut down. It seems like PayPal has their own version of their 'Google slap' goin:rolleyes:

            Mel

            BTW - There are thousands of people on this forum - any PayPal employees out there that could clear this up?????LOL
            Signature

            "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." - D.H. Lawrence
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Okay, about your pricing structure... were did you get those ideas? To me it seems you just pulled them out of thin air. What is your offer worth? If you were to get your own product as a customer how much would you be willing to pay? What does your product do for the user when they are finished? In other words you are not selling the product you are selling the end result of what your product delivers...

    That is what you should be pricing... Put a price on the value of that and you'll have a starting point. Personally I would test different price points.

    Mike Hill
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    • Profile picture of the author LittleMike
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Okay, about your pricing structure... were did you get those ideas? To me it seems you just pulled them out of thin air. What is your offer worth? If you were to get your own product as a customer how much would you be willing to pay? What does your product do for the user when they are finished? In other words you are not selling the product you are selling the end result of what your product delivers...

      That is what you should be pricing... Put a price on the value of that and you'll have a starting point. Personally I would test different price points.

      Mike Hill
      Mike, I'm selling solutions to a problem. Isn't that the goal of every other information product? As far as the pricing structure, how do you figure I pulled them out of thin air? $47-$97 is standard rate for an ebook. It's even listed in the BFM manuscript. This is my own product. I created it myself from scratch. As far as what I would pay, my perceived value is not necessarily the same as my customers as I'm the one that created the product. I know how to do what I teach in my book already so I wouldn't have to buy it. I never said I'm not selling an end result, I'm asking for advice on price structure of product to upsell to downsell. I could set the price at $197, but the ratio wouldn't change at all.
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