Emailing clients who are not on a 'list'

10 years ago

Originally Posted by londonwar

So I run a small business and have sold over 20,000 products, so i have around 20k email addresses. They are not particularly on a list as such, just past customers.

I am wondering if its possible to email them all at once? I have a new IM type offer I wish to send to these people. Is there software I can use to send them all the email without them being on an 'opt in' list?

Sorry for my ignorance here, I am new to email list, email marketing etc.

If I can chuck all the email addresses into some kind of software and send the 1 email that would be great.

any advice, please shoot my way

Thanks

I think the bigger problem than the software or autoresonder or the HOW to send email to all of your clients, is would you be breaking the Can Spam Act law in doing so?

I am not totally sure about this myself, but I think if those email address you have, haven't voluntarily opted in to a list of yours, then sending commercial email to them would go against the Can Spam Act.

I'm not sure if the penalties are dependent on the the number of emails you send or if you have a track record of this or just whatever penalty they want to slap you with or what.

There is the possibility of both a big fine and some jail time if you send commercial email to those you aren't suppose to send commercial email to, if you get caught doing that, so I would worry more about that aspect of it first.

If you find out that you can send commercial email to all of the emails you have collected, then worry about the software problem.

Thanks
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JensSteyaert

10 years ago

To make sure you send out a legal mailing i would add something in the email so people can choose not to receive mailings anymore, just a simple unsubscribe page. That should be enough since they are past customers...

For the software you can check out sendblaster, they have the option to import mailing lists.

Thanks
2 replies

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nik0

Banned 10 years ago

I think you're fine.

I am in the same boat here with lots of paid customers that never opted in or anything, but if I want to email them I just do and no one will mind about it for sure.

What I dislike more is when I buy a service that I MUST opt-in or I won't even receive the product I bought.

If you send them an email do make sure it's your own product that relates closely to what you used to offer. It's very unpolite to blatantly started to spam them with other people's products. I think that's an important decision maker here.

Thanks for starting this thread btw, cause as said, I'm in the same boat and was also wondering how to organize this.

Thanks
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Walter Cyclid

10 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

What I dislike more is when I buy a service that I MUST opt-in or I won't even receive the product I bought.

You too, huh? Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Seriously though, I swear next time I get one of those, I am just going to not opt in and ask for my money back.

I don't get where all the gurus keep swearing up and down that being deceptive increases your sales.

They say the upsells do, the OTO's do, the having to opt in to get what you paid for does, etc., etc.

Im sorry, it might increase sales in the short term, but I don't see how pissing off your customers can ever be the cause of long term profits.

Thanks
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nik0

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Walter Cyclid

You too, huh? Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Seriously though, I swear next time I get one of those, I am just going to not opt in and ask for my money back.

I don't get where all the gurus keep swearing up and down that being deceptive increases your sales.

They say the upsells do, the OTO's do, the having to opt in to get what you paid for does, etc., etc.

Im sorry, it might increase sales in the short term, but I don't see how pissing off your customers can ever be the cause of long term profits.

I don't get it either as I'm very unlikely to ever buy again.

You know what an OTO tells me? That I just bought an in-complete product!

Yeah sure, when you buy a car there are also options but that's an exceptional example, when you buy a juicer the accessories are included already and when you buy a tv it comes with a remote control.

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JohnMcCabe

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Walter Cyclid

Okay I'm no lawyer, and no, the CAN SPAM act doesn't prohibit from emailing unsolicited offers, but I am pretty sure it prohibits sending unsolicited COMMERCIAL email. If the so called 'offer' is to get someone to buy something, then I think that would fall under COMMERCIAL.

Read it again, Walter. It only prohibits certain tactics spammers favor. Like using phony reply addresses, not offering a valid way to unsubscribe, etc.

As long as you follow the rules, especially in this case where there is a pre-existing commercial relationship, sending unsolicited commercial offers is perfectly legal under CAN-SPAM.

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Walter Cyclid

10 years ago

Originally Posted by nik0

You know what an OTO tells me? That I just bought an in-complete product!

Exactly. The sales page it always says 'This is everything you need. You won't need anything else, or have to invest in anything else.'

So then you buy and suddenly here comes the OTO, and it says ...

"Wait, we know we said what you bought would be complete, but you still need this to before it's complete, but we're not gonna throw it in. Oh no! But because we like you so much and really want to help you use what you just bought, we are only gonna charge you five or ten times what you already paid."

Obviously the gurus who do this are only in IM to make quick bucks in as short a time as possible. I highly doubt this is the way to build a long term business. It is DEFINITELY NOT the way to keep customers.

Thanks
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nik0

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Walter Cyclid

Exactly. The sales page it always says 'This is everything you need. You won't need anything else, or have to invest in anything else.'

So then you buy and suddenly here comes the OTO, and it says ...

"Wait, we know we said what you bought would be complete, but you still need this to before it's complete, but we're not gonna throw it in. Oh no! But because we like you so much and really want to help you use what you just bought, we are only gonna charge you five or ten times what you already paid."

Obviously the gurus who do this are only in IM to make quick bucks in as short a time as possible. I highly doubt this is the way to build a long term business. It is DEFINITELY NOT the way to keep customers.

After spending a few years on these forums I know exactly who NOT to buy from so at least I learned something in the process

Thanks

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Master of Puppets

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Walter Cyclid

You too, huh? Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Seriously though, I swear next time I get one of those, I am just going to not opt in and ask for my money back.

I don't get where all the gurus keep swearing up and down that being deceptive increases your sales.

They say the upsells do, the OTO's do, the having to opt in to get what you paid for does, etc., etc.

Im sorry, it might increase sales in the short term, but I don't see how pissing off your customers can ever be the cause of long term profits.

I totally agree. I'm at the point where I don't want to be forced to opt-in period! I was looking at autoresponder solutions this morning and was attempting to evaluate Constant Contact. Upon arrival to the site, you're basically forced to opt-in. I'm like WTF, I haven't even seen prices yet. I dug around a little more and found a way to squeeze out a bit of info without opting in. But is this really what it's come to? I ended up going with Get Response as they provide plenty of info upfront including videos without requiring a opt-in! When I land on a squeeze page now, I better get enough info to make me feel opting in is REALLY worth it or I'm gone immediately.

Thanks

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JohnMcCabe

10 years ago

So much well-intended advice based on so little actual knowledge...:rolleyes:

You have to give the autoresponder companies a lot of credit. They've somehow managed to create the impression that 'having a list' means using an autoresponder and a series of programmed emails.

You have a list. You have an existing commercial relationship with them. Depending on the details of what they gave their emails for, you may already have permission to email them.

CAN-SPAM doesn't prohibit someone from emailing unsolicited offers. It does lay out the ground rules for doing so legally in the USA. Follow those rules and you'll be okay.

It's quite possible to use autoresponder accounts to only send broadcasts. Given your circumstances, you'll probably be allowed to import your list. They will probably make those folks confirm their subscription.

You could also use the mailing list software included with cPanel accounts (Postman is one of them). This software is a throwback to the days when running email discussion lists was more popular than what it is now. You can set the software to 'announcement' mode, so that you as list owner are the only one who can mail. Your host will throttle the email rate, so a list of 20k might take several hours to broadcast.

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Walter Cyclid

10 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

So much well-intended advice based on so little actual knowledge...:rolleyes:

You have to give the autoresponder companies a lot of credit. They've somehow managed to create the impression that 'having a list' means using an autoresponder and a series of programmed emails.

Haha, that they have, but maybe using an autoresponder would be easier for the number of emails we are talking about. Not sure.

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

CAN-SPAM doesn't prohibit someone from emailing unsolicited offers. It does lay out the ground rules for doing so legally in the USA. Follow those rules and you'll be okay.

Okay I'm no lawyer, and no, the CAN SPAM act doesn't prohibit from emailing unsolicited offers, but I am pretty sure it prohibits sending unsolicited COMMERCIAL email. If the so called 'offer' is to get someone to buy something, then I think that would fall under COMMERCIAL.

Thanks

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Uirsesdig

10 years ago

How will do it? is that possible?

Thanks

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Glynn Kosky

10 years ago

ok, well sod it, im going to email them.

so is 'send blaster' best way to move forward?

im not interested in them opting into future emails or whatever.

i will add some kind of note or disclaimer though.

Thanks.

Thanks
1 reply

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nik0

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by londonwar

ok, well sod it, im going to email them.

so is 'send blaster' best way to move forward?

im not interested in them opting into future emails or whatever.

i will add some kind of note or disclaimer though.

Thanks.

I like that appraoch.

Just make them aware of the new thing you have to offer and end the email with something like:

Best regards,

Londonwar
hxxp://londonwar.com

ps: If you don't like to receive any e-mails please let us know and we remove your email address from our database

No one is waiting for all those opt-in / subscribe / unsubscribe things.

Thanks

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Aniblow

10 years ago

londonwar, you need an autoresponder service. This is a business you are running. They allow you import your email contacts. Getresponse allows that.

You can import these contacts into your AR account and easily contact them, while giving them the option to opt out on their own.

Thanks
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Glynn Kosky

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Aniblow

londonwar, you need an autoresponder service. This is a business you are running. They allow you import your email contacts. Getresponse allows that.

You can import these contacts into your AR account and easily contact them, while giving them the option to opt out on their own.

getresponse will do it then yeh?

how about aweber???

Thanks

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BradVert2013

10 years ago

Here's the FTC website that details what you can and cannot do regarding emails:

CAN-SPAM Act: A Compliance Guide for Business | BCP Business Center

My own personal opinion is to err on the side of caution. If you do decide to email, make sure there is an easy way for them to unsubscribe, you have your physical address in the email and you're honest about why you're emailing them (ie. don't be deceptive).

The risk is if someone does make a complaint, you can lose your website, email accounts and more. Being labeled a spammer can ruin your reputation very fast.

Thanks

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Jtraits

10 years ago

if you decide to proceed, i would recommend to you a professional email marketing company ... don't do it by yourself and your personal email because you will only get bad results ...

Thanks

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pogospring

10 years ago

Technically you can probably get away with it. I went through this myself in a previous business and my solution was to hire two telemarketers and run a promotion. They called my previous customers promoting a specific offer (printer toner related) and at the end of every call asked if they would prefer to be contacted via email next time.

Built my list up to 3500 relevant opted-in people. My salespeople made anywhere between $700-$1100 a day for me. Was a great system.

Thanks

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Glynn Kosky

10 years ago

Could I do this with aweber?

Thanks
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BradVert2013

10 years ago

Originally Posted by londonwar

Could I do this with aweber?

Check their TOS. They may only allow email addresses from people that have opted in to a list. But I don't know for sure.

Thanks
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bdpop

10 years ago

I may be wrong but I think Aweber wouldn't do it.

Thanks
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HaleYes

10 years ago

The line
im not interested in them opting into future emails or whatever.

rings my bell. You are running a business and for email marketers 80% of the sales are from email promotions. Once you get the list imported and have a way to unsubscribe you should be actively trying to build a relationship with that list. Send them useful information relevant to the type of business you are running and find relevant offers.

BTW - be sure to create a small campaign for the offer you have. Send several emails stressing different benefits for your product. It often takes as many as 12 visits before someone buys and people certainly DO NOT open every email. Personally I'd aim for between 5 and 7 shots before you give up on the offer.

If you are using an autoresponder company like AWeber you can move them to a buyers list and remove them from your main list when they buy. That way you are not hammering them with "Buy XXX" when they have already purchased it from you.

I wish you well.

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Glynn Kosky

10 years ago

aweber only allows me to input email addresses that are already on a subscribed list, and you need to send proof to them for this.

with getresponse, i could only add 1k contacts or something little like this....

i want to send to 14k email addresses..

and yes i would like to set it up so i can send a series of emails over the course of a week or two to encourage these people to purchase my product/offer

therefore, what software will easily allow me to add the contact list and send an email to them all?

That is all i need. I have the email addresses, now need to send the email.

Please advise.

Thanks

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe

10 years ago

Originally Posted by londonwar

aweber only allows me to input email addresses that are already on a subscribed list, and you need to send proof to them for this.

with getresponse, i could only add 1k contacts or something little like this....

i want to send to 14k email addresses..

and yes i would like to set it up so i can send a series of emails over the course of a week or two to encourage these people to purchase my product/offer

therefore, what software will easily allow me to add the contact list and send an email to them all?

That is all i need. I have the email addresses, now need to send the email.

Please advise.

Thanks

Which is it? One email, or a series of emails?

If it's a series of emails, you have to include a working mechanism to let people remove themselves from future emails. Period. Full stop.

That mechanism must be available in all messages in the series.

Since you already have an existing business relationship with these people, sending the first email is fine as long as it complies with the rules. After that, you need permission to continue sending. If you have an obvious and working method (like an unsubscribe link), not using that link may be construed as passive permission.

Of course, if enough of those people don't remember who you are or giving you their email, they could still lodge spam complaints. Trust me, unsnarling yourself from one or more blacklists is a serious PITA. Several years ago, I bought a hosting package and the IP assigned to me formerly belonged to a porn site. Took almost a year to finally clear things up completely.

Thanks
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Glynn Kosky

10 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Which is it? One email, or a series of emails?

If it's a series of emails, you have to include a working mechanism to let people remove themselves from future emails. Period. Full stop.

That mechanism must be available in all messages in the series.

Since you already have an existing business relationship with these people, sending the first email is fine as long as it complies with the rules. After that, you need permission to continue sending. If you have an obvious and working method (like an unsubscribe link), not using that link may be construed as passive permission.

Of course, if enough of those people don't remember who you are or giving you their email, they could still lodge spam complaints. Trust me, unsnarling yourself from one or more blacklists is a serious PITA. Several years ago, I bought a hosting package and the IP assigned to me formerly belonged to a porn site. Took almost a year to finally clear things up completely.

OK, thanks for advice.
Lets say i wish to add them to a list then, send a series of emails, but wish to add an 'opt out' button immediately on the first email.

what software is best for me? to upload the addresses, hit the email out, and have the opt out option?

thank you

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe

10 years ago

Originally Posted by londonwar

OK, thanks for advice.
Lets say i wish to add them to a list then, send a series of emails, but wish to add an 'opt out' button immediately on the first email.

what software is best for me? to upload the addresses, hit the email out, and have the opt out option?

thank you

You have a couple of options.

One is to use the mailing list program included with most hosting accounts. Set it up as an "announcement list". Create boilerplate instructions for removal, and simply paste them at the end of each message. The program takes care of creating proper headers and such. The pro to this is it's free (included in your hosting account). The con is that you are not able to pre-program the send intervals without getting techie.

The other option is a self-hosted autoresponder script. I use Listmail Pro, but there are several others on the market. A little digging around the forum here will turn up several threads on using self-hosted ARs.

Or try this list...

http://www.emailvendorselection.com/...provider-list/

Thanks

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taylerhughes

10 years ago

Can-Spam allows you to send commercial emails to non opt-in recipients if you make it easy for them to opt-out.

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frambles

10 years ago

ezinedirector.com is good. Offer them a oneclick opt out

Thanks
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Glynn Kosky 10 years ago

Originally Posted by frambles

ezinedirector.com is good. Offer them a oneclick opt out

I dont particularly want an opt in, or an opt out.

I simply want to send an email.

Am i getting this all wrong?!
- Thanks
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- BradVert2013 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by londonwar
  
  I dont particularly want an opt in, or an opt out.
  
  I simply want to send an email.
  
  Am i getting this all wrong?!
  
  Yes, you are. If you want to send out mass commercial emails, people must agree to receive it. And you also must give them an easy way to opt out. There's a reason email subscription services like Aweber needs to verify your subscribers opted in. Any hint they are complicit in spam will ruin them.
  
  Thanks
  
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- Max Anderson 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by londonwar
  
  I dont particularly want an opt in, or an opt out.
  
  I simply want to send an email.
  
  Am i getting this all wrong?!
  
  use a bulkmailer like mailjet
  
  Thanks
  
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jasonvthomas

10 years ago

Hi

Getresponse allow you import your email contacts. Bt Aweber does not

I suggest You can import these contacts into your AR account and in the welcome email do remind then how you got their email id when they did a purchase from you

Also give them a valid reason for them to stay on your list, maybe offer a freebie and them easily contact them whenever you launch new products.

Remind them that they can opt out right now by clicking in the unsubscribe link below your email giving them the option to opt out on their own. Eitherway you don't need non interested subscribers which will also raise your autoresponder costs.