Stop calling your OTO an OTO when in fact it's NOT an OTO!

42 replies
< Begin Rant >

I've noticed that what allot of Warriors are referring to lately as an OTO in their sales funnels, is in reality nothing more than a basic up sell or cross sell.

A true classic OTO (One Time Offer) is an offer that is only offered ONCE during a sales process.

If a buyer declines the OTO at the time it is offered by closing the OTO offer page, the buyer should then never be offered that deal again! EVER! Period!

That is the magic of a true OTO!

If the buyer is able to refresh the page, and the OTO is still there, guess what,
it's not an OTO!

If the link to the deal is offered later on again via email to the same buyer who initially declined the OTO during the sales process, it's not an OTO!

If the link to the deal is offered later on again inside a membership area after the initial sale is made,
it's not an OTO!

You've surely seen this message:

"Did you pass on the ONE TIME OFFER ? Here's another chance. Click here!"

Even saying that out loud shows you how stupid that sounds!

If it's not an OTO, don't call it an OTO!

I'm surprised that the term OTO is actually allowed to be used by any vendor in this forum when the actual sales process being used by that vendor in relation to the term is far from it.

I therefore move for all Warriors to possibly consider only using the term OTO in a sales pitch after every necessary effort is made to ensure that the OTO is in fact a true One Time Offer.

The word "deception" comes to mind, although I'm not familar with any FTC or any other regulations currently in place regarding this. (if any).

</End Rant>

Your thoughts?
#deception #ethical marketing #one time offers #oto
  • Profile picture of the author ADVERTHEORY
    this thread is an OTO
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  • Scarcity is a hell of a marketing strategy
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Cyclid
      Originally Posted by Joseph Villanueva View Post

      Scarcity is a hell of a marketing strategy
      Unless it's an OTO. Then scarcity is a hell of a DECEPTIVE strategy
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Also stop calling your sale "limited" when it isn't "limited".

    And stop calling your price "special" when it isn't "special".

    And stop saying the melons are "fresh" when they aren't "fresh".
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      I'm already messed up to the decree that I already know I can purchase it at a later point and will first try the software/product without the OTO to see if I even need it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Walter Cyclid
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        I'm already messed up to the decree that I already know I can purchase it at a later point and will first try the software/product without the OTO to see if I even need it.
        Exactly! You know the OTO is still gonna be there if you think it can help you. And if the front end product you purchased turned out to be garbage, you know the OTO is not going to do you any good either, so you save about 3 to 5 times the cost of the front end offer that they wanted to charge for the useless OTO.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    There are a lot of websites out there and sales funnels that tell people that there are:

    Only a few spots left

    when in reality, you can buy their product anytime you want.

    It is a lie but it works for many programs.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Stop saying stop... HAW!
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  • Profile picture of the author Luke Dennison
    I also wonder why people place "oto" at the start, before you have even seen the product you bought.

    I think people would make a lot more money if they really where one time, and put them at the end of products. That way, if the first product was good, people would almost \have to buy the OTO iin case they missed something magical.
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    • Profile picture of the author ADVERTHEORY
      Originally Posted by Luke Dennison View Post

      I also wonder why people place "oto" at the start, before you have even seen the product you bought.

      I think people would make a lot more money if they really where one time, and put them at the end of products. That way, if the first product was good, people would almost have to buy the OTO iin case they missed something magical.
      Because you were just sold on how to make one thousand dollars a day with my easy blueprint. But, before you start on that journey my friend has a product he wants pitched on which type of underwear its best to work in while following my blueprint. So in order to prepare yourself for the $1000/day method don't F*up by wearing the wrong underwear.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    Stop saying "An" OTO. It's "a" OTO! As long as we're picking nits.

    I use "Special Offer."

    You all complain about that while I get back to work. (:
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      Stop saying "An" OTO. It's "a" OTO! As long as we're picking nits.
      Nope, wrong nits. "An" OTO is correct as you're pronouncing the abbreviation, rather than the whole term.

      That's why you don't write "an" UFO, for example.

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        Just stop using the cheesey lingo and you're home free.

        A vast majority of the audience won't have a clue in hell as to what the abbreviation stands for anyways.
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    • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      Nope, wrong nits. "An" OTO is correct as you're pronouncing the abbreviation, rather than the whole term.

      That's why you don't write "an" UFO, for example.

      .
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      Stop saying "An" OTO. It's "a" OTO! As long as we're picking nits.

      I use "Special Offer."

      You all complain about that while I get back to work. (:

      Yep, it's 'an' OTO or 'a' One Time Offer. Or in your case, 'a' Special Offer, which is much better as you are not saying that there is only one chance to get it.
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  • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
    Scarcity is a great tool.. if used correctly..

    what do you call someone using scarcity that indeed is not

    a liar

    pure and simple
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

    < Begin Rant >

    I've noticed that what allot of Warriors are referring to lately as an OTO in their sales funnels, is in reality nothing more than a basic up sell or cross sell.

    A true classic OTO (One Time Offer) is an offer that is only offered ONCE during a sales process.

    If a buyer declines the OTO at the time it is offered by closing the OTO offer page, the buyer should then never be offered that deal again! EVER! Period!

    That is the magic of a true OTO!

    If the buyer is able to refresh the page, and the OTO is still there, guess what,
    it's not an OTO!
    ......

    < End Rant >

    Your thoughts?
    Don't really care what they call it or how many times it's available. I'm personally glad it's usually available at a later date, as I've bought more OTOs later rather than at the time of first offer.

    Nit picking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slab
    So people must stop lying?

    Good luck with that.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I agree. It's quite misleading. I think they should call them MIAOTOAMIA.

    That stands for: Maybe It's A One Time Offer And Maybe It Ain't. :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I agree. It's quite misleading. I think they should call them MIAOTOAMIA.

      That stands for: Maybe It's A One Time Offer And Maybe It Ain't. :rolleyes:
      I like that. Going in my swipe file :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I agree. It's quite misleading. I think they should call them MIAOTOAMIA.

      That stands for: Maybe It's A One Time Offer And Maybe It Ain't. :rolleyes:


      I am seriously going to use this with your permission!
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by Chri5123 View Post



        I am seriously going to use this with your permission!
        Sure, I declare the acronym open source or open sourcery or whatever...
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    • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I agree. It's quite misleading. I think they should call them MIAOTOAMIA.

      That stands for: Maybe It's A One Time Offer And Maybe It Ain't. :rolleyes:

      Miaotoamia sounds like a lovely place to visit. Someone should rename a small country, they would be inundated with IM tourists.
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      • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
        Originally Posted by Katie Rich View Post

        Miaotoamia sounds like a lovely place to visit. Someone should rename a small country, they would be inundated with IM tourists.
        You know what it is like in the U.K though - they should rename it:

        SISMOTTIN

        "Sometimes it sunny most of the time it's not!"

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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Yes, some people lie with no regret, as evidenced in attitudes like this:

        Originally Posted by Paid Surveys View Post

        Does it really matter? If you get a sale whether you offer it once or twice makes no difference. Marketing is all about manipulation anyway so trying to moralise about an industry which is founded on image and appearance is like suggesting that street robbers should only target the well off! LOL
        One of the best defenses against street mugging is appearing to have nothing worth stealing.

        Originally Posted by mrgoe View Post

        Can I call mine TTO ? (two times offer) ? ) Great post, but we`re marketers, we use marketing phrases, like "one time offer" and "only 2 <<products>> left" )
        Yup. Some of us even use them correctly.

        Some people use false scarcity and other deceptive tactics. Others simply choose the wrong words out of ignorance or a desire to sound like they know what they're talking about.

        Either way, it does not bode well for the quality of the product offered.
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  • Profile picture of the author cabenb
    Scarcity is used so much in IM that it is no longer credible. Perhaps it is time to act normal again?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    You mean...

    Marketers lie?

    What?!?!?

    I'm devastated.

    Interesting rant.

    And yes...

    A true OTO should only be shown once. Otherwise, it's an upsell (that you'll likely see in your inbox - until you're either annoyed into purchasing the product... or unsubscribe.)

    But who cares?

    It's your choice to read the emails - pimpin' out an OTO... that's not an OTO.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author zonerman
    This post is right on and hits a point I have been struggling with for some time and is reason why I am hesitating getting into the IM game full bore.

    Namely the SLEAZE FACTOR.

    There are, as we are all aware, some highly questionable tactics and out right BS IMers employ. A few of which have been mentioned in this thread.

    Limited time offer, limited slots, OTO's, Outrageous unprovable claims, the you can be dumber than paint and make tons of money on my plan crap, false reviews by affiliates who have never seen the product, on and on.

    My biggest disappointment in this whole thing is that these same tactics are used here on the forum. I find this site to be very useful and full of people trying to sincerely help each other, but you have to wade through all the self serving BS too.

    I wish there was a section on ethical IM and that Warrior Forum would police the bull shitters at least in so far as preventing them from advertising using these sleazy tactics.

    To me IM is about providing true value to my website visitors either via information, place to share ideas, get answers to their issues, and provide honest reviews it is not not to dupe them.
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by zonerman View Post

      To me IM is about providing true value to my website visitors either via information, place to share ideas, get answers to their issues, and provide honest reviews it is not not to dupe them.
      So why not just do that and forget about what others are doing. Most people are honest, it's just that we most often hear about the ones that aren't. Forget them and play it straight. Every second you spend thinking about what's wrong is lost forever.

      EDIT: One other thing. This is only deceptive if it's offered more than once. It's wrong to assume everyone abuses one time offers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Walter Cyclid
    The whole thing is there seems to be this new marketing concept that wasn't as common when I was growing up as it has been, ever since Al Gore invented the internet , and that new marketing concept seems to be:

    If I want to sell, I have to lie.

    It used to be so prevalent in the IM niche, but it's not just IM anymore. Everyone from IMer wanna be's to big business, seem to thinks they have to cheat you instead of doing honest business with you, in order to get you to open up your wallet.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Walter Cyclid View Post

      The whole thing is there seems to be this new marketing concept that wasn't as common when I was growing up as it has been, ever since Al Gore invented the internet , and that new marketing concept seems to be:

      If I want to sell, I have to lie.
      Originally Posted by zonerman View Post

      This post is right on and hits a point I have been struggling with for some time and is reason why I am hesitating getting into the IM game full bore.

      Namely the SLEAZE FACTOR.
      There happens to be a lot of ethical IMer's on this forum. You choose the method of selling. No one forces anyone to tell lies, be deceptive, etc. If that's what you choose because you feel you will only sell if you use these tactics, you should go back to the drawing board on your products and methods.
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    I generally call them 'gold packages'.

    Works well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lightlysalted
    Does it really matter? If you get a sale whether you offer it once or twice makes no difference. Marketing is all about manipulation anyway so trying to moralise about an industry which is founded on image and appearance is like suggesting that street robbers should only target the well off! LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Mikej413
    Yep. I agree with the OP. However, this is a technique that marketers often use. They are attempting to induce a scarcity mindset that makes you think that if you don't act now you'll miss out on it forever and thus increasing their sales. A similar thing is when they say "only one copy left." You know full well there is more than one left. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author nim84
    I think people use as a scarcity ploy as mentioned earlier - and it seems to work quite well as loads of us are using them!

    If I was 'upselling' someone and making this clear in the sales page it could possibly imply my front end product is complete without the upsell - At least that's possibly what some may think...
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post


    The word "deception" comes to mind, although I'm not familar with any FTC or any other regulations currently in place regarding this. (if any).

    I personally think that a bunch of IMers are probably using it for deceptive purposes in order to use false security to trick their customers into buying now.

    And I think that another group of IMers are using the OTO because they have heard about scarcity and are actually trying to use it, but don't really understand how to apply the concept. So they are making mistakes.

    However, I think most of the time when we see people who are mixing up the terms OTO, upsell, downsell, etc. It is from IMers who are truly clueless about what they are doing, who don't understand any of the concepts and have just trying to build a "paint by the numbers" style of business.

    For example, I have read a few posts on this forum and even bought a few WSO's where it was obvious the author themselves didn't know the difference between an OTO and a upsell, or downsell.

    In their product or post they were using the term interchangeably.

    So sometimes it is the blind leading the blind, and not always deception.
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    • Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

      So sometimes it is the blind leading the blind, and not always deception.
      I agree, and I did consider that new marketers will use certain terms and phrases blindly without having a clue of what they actually mean.

      However, I have also seen some very very established marketers using the term OTO together with the large in your face image that reads:

      "STOP!! YOU WILL ONLY SEE THIS PAGE ONCE!!!

      Do not close this page or you will never never never never never ever ever see this offer again!!!!!!!!!

      ( Ok, Slight exaggeration ).

      But yes, I'm mainly referring to those marketers.

      You have to think of it from a customers perspective who chose to make the OTO purchase based on being made to feel that they made a smart decision by "taking action" but then later see that "everyone" can get that deal at any time, even months or years later.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    An Upgrade works for me... BUT I offer the Upgrade at a special price. They can get the upgrade later but the price will be a little higher...
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  • Profile picture of the author mrgoe
    Can I call mine TTO ? (two times offer) ? ) Great post, but we`re marketers, we use marketing phrases, like "one time offer" and "only 2 <<products>> left" )
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    I dont call them anything. Simple redirect to a product offer in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author bdpop
    Calling it an OTO to the customer is one thing; I don't understand why one IM'er would call it that to another IM'er when it's not, though. It's just confusing.
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  • Profile picture of the author LastWarrior
    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

    < Begin Rant >

    I've noticed that what allot of Warriors are...

    ... although I'm not familar with any FTC or any other regulations currently in place regarding this. (if any).

    < End Rant >

    Your thoughts?
    Your closing tag is screwed up. It should be </End Rant>

    LastWarrior
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    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
      I like making the OTO offer special, as in some pretty incredible value, and thereafter only offering pieces of it on other pages.

      Some pieces of the OTO might be available later, like in the backend email sequence, but that particular offer with all the pieces won't be offered for the same price again.

      I've only ever allowed the full OTO to be sold at discounted price (the originally posted OTO price) if someone emails me about it. I consider this reaching out and taking action so i reward that effort.
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