Paypal Dispute Won Now Charge Back?

48 replies
Hi Warriors,

I just woke up this morning to find a charge back in my Paypal account from a customer who lost a dispute he opened with Paypal two weeks back claiming they didn't receive the item. And again money was withheld in my account for the charge back.

I mean how is it possible that someone opens a dispute and loses it and Paypal allows a charge back to come through?

Can't Paypal let the bank know that a dispute was settled within Paypal for the transaction?

Anyway I hope I win the charge back as well. I provided Paypal with the same proof as the dispute and reminded them about the dispute the customer had opened.

Some customers are just not heaven sent.
#back #charge #charge back #dispute #paypal #won
  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Just give him/her the money back and keep truckin.
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    • Profile picture of the author Makabongwe Maseko
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      Just give him/her the money back and keep truckin.
      I would give him back if it was a valid reason. But a customer who falsely claims they didn't receive an item yet I have all the proof they did doesn't deserve to be refunded.

      He is just trying to take advantage that is a digital product. That since he has it in his hard drive he might as well get his money back.
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  • Profile picture of the author grafx77
    The charge back is issued by his credit card company and not Paypal. Paypal has to fight this charge back and will use any and all evidence you give them towards doing so. As long as you send the appropriate evidence along with stating that the item is a digital item, the charge back will not move any further.
    However, it is a pain in the a$$ because it can take the credit card company up to 75 days to come to a resolution that would take anyone else 2 minutes to solve. Simply move forward with business and know that you'll get your money back, hopefully more sooner than later.
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  • Profile picture of the author iodalg
    If it's a small amount, let it go! Battling with a chargeback can get really ugly. Not worth your time!
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    The chargeback has been claimed against PayPal rather than yourself directly. It is completely up to the buyer's bank an PayPal cannot do anything about it. The only thing they can do is to suspend the buyer's account but this may not happen.

    Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

    Just give him/her the money back and keep truckin.
    You cannot give the customer's money back because they have already taken it. The only thing you can do under these circumstances is to ask PayPal to appeal for you. However, that could take months and I doubt PayPal would do anything unless a large amount is involved.
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  • Profile picture of the author sparrow
    As much as I agree with you, grit your teeth and refund them

    these are losers and thieves

    I just had to give a refund to someone too lazy to whitelist software in chrome

    couldn't waste their time doing this so demanded a refund

    wonder how they make any money at all with this attitude

    Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author Makabongwe Maseko
    I don't usually get chargebacks or refund request so I don't mind fighting this one.

    What I don't like is a person making false claims yet they know they received the product.

    If you say you don't like my product and it did not help you then maybe I will refund you, but if you are trying to take advantage that this is a digital product and you can easily get your money back then I will not refund you.

    What actually surprised me is that I had won the dispute with Paypal but the person was still able to file a chargeback even when they lost the dispute.

    So that means winning a dispute is half the battle, you still have to face and win a chargeback to win the war.
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    • Profile picture of the author edlanglais
      Originally Posted by Makabongwe Maseko View Post

      I don't usually get chargebacks or refund request so I don't mind fighting this one.

      What I don't like is a person making false claims yet they know they received the product.

      If you say you don't like my product and it did not help you then maybe I will refund you, but if you are trying to take advantage that this is a digital product and you can easily get your money back then I will not refund you.

      What actually surprised me is that I had won the dispute with Paypal but the person was still able to file a chargeback even when they lost the dispute.

      So that means winning a dispute is half the battle, you still have to face and win a chargeback to win the war.
      The buyers credit card company has all the power and control. Paypal is only your payment processor, making them the ultimate middle man.
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      • Profile picture of the author Makabongwe Maseko
        Originally Posted by edlanglais View Post

        The buyers credit card company has all the power and control. Paypal is only your payment processor, making them the ultimate middle man.
        If that's the case then what's the point fighting disputes within Paypal if the buyer can still go to their credit card company to DEMAND their money back?

        I mean Paypal should it list have a policy that if you open a dispute with them then you can't file a chargeback with your bank.

        And the main reason I don't want to refund this customer is because I have solid proof that he downloaded the ebooks.

        - My stats show he visited my site 3 times within a week before purchasing, which means he took his time to read and understand that this is downloaded product.

        - Before every customer checkouts there are some check boxes where a customers ticks to make sure they understand that this is a downloaded ebook and how they will download it. That's the reason I don't get such disputes.

        - And again my stats show he was redirected to the download page and downloaded the ebooks.

        - The ip address is the same as the one he used to contact me for a refund.

        With all this proof I gave to Paypal which is why I won the dispute, now I just hope I win the chargeback.
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    • Profile picture of the author agmccall
      Originally Posted by Makabongwe Maseko View Post

      So that means winning a dispute is half the battle, you still have to face and win a chargeback to win the war.
      But, You are not facing the chargeback, Paypal is, You really have no say in this matter. If the amount is low, say less than 50 bucks, then paypal is not going to bother.

      Sorry to say it, but it is not your fight anymore, it is time to move on

      al
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      • Profile picture of the author Makabongwe Maseko
        Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

        But, You are not facing the chargeback, Paypal is, You really have no say in this matter. If the amount is low, say less than 50 bucks, then paypal is not going to bother.

        Sorry to say it, but it is not your fight anymore, it is time to move on

        al
        You right its not my fight anymore I was just surprised that someone can still file a chargeback after losing a dispute.
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  • Profile picture of the author brettb
    You're usually better just giving the refund and moving on.

    I lost a Paypal dispute against a site recently, but for their refusal to honour their 100% money back guarantee I wrote about a dozen bad reviews, which will over time lose this company 10x what they took from me.
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    • Profile picture of the author vickybabe
      It is just part of this business, i always have a no questions asked money back guarantee, but some of the excuses you get are laughable at best

      Just refund these people straight away and save yourself some time, i always find it helps to realize that these people will never get anywhere anyway

      Oh and definitely add to your blacklist if possible
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  • Profile picture of the author iodalg
    Unfortunately even when you win the dispute with Paypal, a chargeback can be made! That's the downside for us marketers doing business online...
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    • Profile picture of the author LastWarrior
      Since you said the buyer never claimed to get the purchase... and it's digital...

      ...just say "No Problem!... here's the download link and you can download it again."

      Of course he doesn't want that, but a freebie on you.

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  • Profile picture of the author evilclown
    The bank will always listen to their customer, also banks knows there is millions of fraud digital products and paypal policies does not protect you against fraud if its a digital product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
    Bad thing, if you lose the chargeback, you will be charged a chargeback settlement fee. Usually about $20. So you could lose the sale plus an extra $20. Your actually out of pocket extra money.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrgoe
      Originally Posted by Ron Killian View Post

      Bad thing, if you lose the chargeback, you will be charged a chargeback settlement fee. Usually about $20. So you could lose the sale plus an extra $20. Your actually out of pocket extra money.
      I think that justice and proving to that guy that scam just isn`t OK is worth more than 20$ so I would go for it
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  • Profile picture of the author Javisito
    I experienced the same thing a while ago, turned out the buyer did not know how to use winrar to unpack the file. I explained to her and then she was happy and cancelled the dispute.

    Sometimes people take action just because they don´t know better.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
      Originally Posted by Javisito View Post

      I experienced the same thing a while ago, turned out the buyer did not know how to use winrar to unpack the file. I explained to her and then she was happy and cancelled the dispute.

      Sometimes people take action just because they don´t know better.
      Oddly, for what ever reason, some buyers will file a dispute without even attempting to contact the seller.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charmed Life
    Pick your fights carefully, there will always be some who will lie to get what they want. I would think about the time, potential cost and possible negative impact fighting this may have on you and your business. If you think it's worth it then ask Paypal to appeal on your behalf, but don't make this personal. They don't know you and you don't know them. Sometimes it's better to take a deep breath, be the better person and let it go.

    The very first sale I ever made on-line was refunded, as my customer claimed that he hadn't received the digital product. I was absolutely gutted that my first sale ended up being from someone who wanted to scam me, but I decided to send him another link to the product and refund him as well.

    Many will think I was crazy for doing that, but I realised that I had to accept that there will always be "customers" who just want freebies and will play the system to get it. I decided I was better off focusing on gaining decent, returning customers, rather than waste my time and energy on a liar and cheat. Sending him another link was my way of letting him know that I wasn't bothered by his behaviour ;-)

    Letting go and moving on just felt better for me at that time (and still does now) :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Master of Puppets
    Paypal couldn't care less about losing a charge-back....it's not their money. They'll simply deduct the amount from your account (whether it's available or not). Sucks huh?

    Paypal's dispute option is a joke. People who know how the system works go straight for the charge-back as it's an automatic win. No delay, no back and forth. The only people who settle for the dispute are people who don't understand the system & how easy it is to abuse. Unfortunately, this group is the minority.
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    • Profile picture of the author Javisito
      Originally Posted by Ron Killian View Post

      Oddly, for what ever reason, some buyers will file a dispute without even attempting to contact the seller.
      Hard to say, maybe they do not believe our refund policies to be a scam or they just do not know better.

      Originally Posted by Charmed Life View Post

      Pick your fights carefully, there will always be some who will lie to get what they want. I would think about the time, potential cost and possible negative impact fighting this may have on you and your business. If you think it's worth it then ask Paypal to appeal on your behalf, but don't make this personal. They don't know you and you don't know them. Sometimes it's better to take a deep breath, be the better person and let it go.

      The very first sale I ever made on-line was refunded, as my customer claimed that he hadn't received the digital product. I was absolutely gutted that my first sale ended up being from someone who wanted to scam me, but I decided to send him another link to the product and refund him as well.

      Many will think I was crazy for doing that, but I realised that I had to accept that there will always be "customers" who just want freebies and will play the system to get it. I decided I was better off focusing on gaining decent, returning customers, rather than waste my time and energy on a liar and cheat. Sending him another link was my way of letting him know that I wasn't bothered by his behaviour ;-)

      Letting go and moving on just felt better for me at that time (and still does now) :-)
      I usually just refund them without asking, however it is not a big problem very few people ask for a refund anyway.

      Originally Posted by Master of Puppets View Post

      Paypal couldn't care less about losing a charge-back....it's not their money. They'll simply deduct the amount from your account (whether it's available or not). Sucks huh?

      Paypal's dispute option is a joke. People who know how the system works go straight for the charge-back as it's an automatic win. No delay, no back and forth. The only people who settle for the dispute are people who don't understand the system & how easy it is to abuse. Unfortunately, this group is the minority.
      Yeah, I been thinking paypal should have a better system for a long time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
      Originally Posted by Master of Puppets View Post


      Paypal's dispute option is a joke. People who know how the system works go straight for the charge-back as it's an automatic win. No delay, no back and forth. The only people who settle for the dispute are people who don't understand the system & how easy it is to abuse. Unfortunately, this group is the minority.
      A charge back is not an automatic win. Granted most do seem to win, but surely not all and it's not automatic. Seller still has the option to give their side and their proof.
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    • Profile picture of the author LastWarrior
      Originally Posted by Master of Puppets View Post


      Paypal's dispute option is a joke. People who know how the system works go straight for the charge-back as it's an automatic win.
      Ok, I'm 100% confident this isn't totally true. I had hundreds of transactions running through my PayPal account monthly on physical products, no digital, and occasionally I'd get a chargeback for various reasons. Most of the time I would just refund their money and I'd get the product back. However, there were times I got BS complaints about the product and instead of running it by me first, they'd do the chargeback right away. Arseholes. Anyway, a few occasions I fought and won. I just showed my proof and eventually one...like a 100 days later. LOL!

      This was a few years ago and I think the chargeback fee then was $30, so the few that mentioned $20, must be when the Mac came out back in the early 80's. LOL!

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  • Profile picture of the author grafx77
    Paypal is not going to lose the dispute period! First it's a digital product which cannot be validated by the CC company. Secondly, Paypal has evidence of original lost dispute along with whatever evidence you supplied. The buyer will lose in this case (9 times out of 10), however these funds will be locked up until that happens.

    Now as far as collateral damage is concerned, that's another story. He may leave bad reviews, file a complaint somewhere else, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Luke Dennison
    LOL @ all the people saying "just refund"

    you don't even know how much was involved. How do you know the transaction wasn't $9001 ?

    Sure if its not much money then just let it go but I'd fight to the very end for anything over $50 even if I was a millionaire. Don't just let people get away with it its dishonest and shows them how easy it is.

    Disputes and these kind of things don't take more than an hour in total usually. Sure your going to have to submit information when needed but each point of contact should rarely take over 10 mins each.

    Value yourself and don't write stuff off when you can fight.

    A good tip is to organise everything extremely well beforehand so when things go wrong you know where everything important is, and you can get things sent of within minutes.

    Good luck OP
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    • Profile picture of the author grafx77
      Originally Posted by Luke Dennison View Post

      LOL @ all the people saying "just refund"

      you don't even know how much was involved. How do you know the transaction wasn't $9001 ?

      Sure if its not much money then just let it go but I'd fight to the very end for anything over $50 even if I was a millionaire. Don't just let people get away with it its dishonest and shows them how easy it is.

      Disputes and these kind of things don't take more than an hour in total usually. Sure your going to have to submit information when needed but each point of contact should rarely take over 10 mins each.

      Value yourself and don't write stuff off when you can fight.

      A good tip is to organise everything extremely well beforehand so when things go wrong you know where everything important is, and you can get things sent of within minutes.

      Good luck OP
      My sentiments exactly. Don't just let it go to let it go. That's ridiculous. Fight for your rights if you know that the buyer is taking full advantage of you. You'll win the chargeback! Good luck OP.
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    Originally Posted by Makabongwe Maseko View Post


    I mean how is it possible that someone opens a dispute and loses it and Paypal allows a charge back to come through?

    Can't Paypal let the bank know that a dispute was settled within Paypal for the transaction?
    1) Its not PayPal that 'allowed' the charge back. PayPal has nothing to do with it. This is the CC company / bank doing this.

    2) The bank does not care what PP has decided. PP does not dictate to the bank. Sure you won the PP dispute but now the buyer complained to the bank so you have to deal with them

    3) You can dispute the charge back. But you wont win. I have never seen anyone win. Simple fact. The bank does not care about you, they do care about their customer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
      Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

      1) Its not PayPal that 'allowed' the charge back. PayPal has nothing to do with it. This is the CC company / bank doing this.

      2) The bank does not care what PP has decided. PP does not dictate to the bank. Sure you won the PP dispute but now the buyer complained to the bank so you have to deal with them

      3) You can dispute the charge back. But you wont win. I have never seen anyone win. Simple fact. The bank does not care about you, they do care about their customer.
      Once again, chargebacks are not all lost. I've won some. Miss-information.
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  • Profile picture of the author watsonovedades
    let it go my friend, you cannot win them all
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  • Profile picture of the author Geeked Labs
    Well you're soon learn why it's best to just return their money for a digital purchase.

    1. You'll lose the chargeback unless the customer has a high history of chargebacks.

    2. You'll be charged an extra $15-$20s as a punishment for making your merchant go through the charge back process

    3. Your merchant will add a strike against you. If your chargeback rate is above a certain % your entire account could get banned.

    4. You'll create one pissed off customer that will give you terrible reviews, and hold a grudge for years.

    After this process you can blacklist the customer to make sure you never deal with them again if it's truly fraudulent on their part. Some say you should fight it if it's a BIG ticket item like $9,001. That's the worst advice you can take. If it's a big ticket item the FTC could get involved.
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  • Profile picture of the author Makabongwe Maseko
    Chargeback won after 3 months... Money credited back into my Paypal account today...

    So my conclusion is that don't be afraid to fight customers who think they can take your product(s), file a dispute or chargeback then get them for free....

    Run a legitimate business and over deliver.

    All the best!
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
      Originally Posted by Makabongwe Maseko View Post

      Chargeback won after 3 months... Money credited back into my Paypal account today...

      So my conclusion is that don't be afraid to fight customers who think they can take your product(s), file a dispute or chargeback then get them for free....

      Run a legitimate business and over deliver.

      All the best!
      Good for you. There was a lot of bad information in this thread. I have won several chargebacks for small amounts.

      As for no questions asked refunds; that is what is wrong with internet marketing today You should spell out a refund policy (including no refunds which I use) and stick with it.

      I tested different policies and the no refund policy didn't hurt my sales at all. I give them a sample so they know exactly what they ar getting

      Anyway good on you not to listen to all the bad advice in this thread
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    • Profile picture of the author pelican
      Originally Posted by Makabongwe Maseko View Post

      Chargeback won after 3 months... Money credited back into my Paypal account today...

      So my conclusion is that don't be afraid to fight customers who think they can take your product(s), file a dispute or chargeback then get them for free....

      Run a legitimate business and over deliver.

      All the best!

      it depends how that person file a chargeback.
      if his chargeback reason to the bank is "cc fraudulently used", since it is digital product, you will lose no matter what proof you gave.

      you are lucky that he probably used some reasons that paypal can fight against.
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  • Profile picture of the author TomVa
    I would so fight this, and then I would take him to court even if I lost just getting him in a court room would be enough for me. If he is in the USA talk to a lawyer there is fraud, wire fraud but make damn sure you have the proof and if you do your lawyer will tell you the rest, but don't give a inch or they will take a mile, and if you do win I would write a blog about it using real names OUT THAT MOFO out.

    Or you can do like the rest are saying *shrugs* Either way good luck
    Tom

    oh damn just realized the date lol great job in winning, now sue the turd, do a blog etc.. lmao
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  • Profile picture of the author TheFranchiseMarketer
    Banned
    Yeah, thats kinda weird. I never had a problem like this before. Ever since paypal updated their system all kinds of weird things have been going on. I guess you just have to wait to se what happens now that you already notified them the second go around.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    just give people their refunds, or you'l get your merchant shut down then you'll be out of business..

    No matter if they are wrong or you know they are ripping you off, just give it to them to save yourself the headaches.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gengis
    Is the amount worth time and energy wasted to try and get back ? If the answer is yes then give paypal a call.. If the answer is no, then move on..
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  • Profile picture of the author GamerZag
    I've been selling products online for almost a decade. The simple fact is this: Provide a great product, great support, and chargebacks will remain low. All that said, chargebacks ARE something that will ALWAYS occur.

    When they do occur, simply provide Paypal with all the information, including scanned printouts of log requests, activation keys, etc. The scanned printouts seem to hold a lot more weight with Paypal in determining yourself as the victor.

    Once you submit that info to Paypal, get the whole concept out of your mind. Don't stress. Win or lose, you've done your part, and you have to move on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yvon Boulianne
    Better give him back his money that having him got to ripoffreport . com and having this stuff on 1st position (yes not page but position) at google !!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Highway55
    Good business people issue refunds to sh*tty customers all the time. If you don't issue a refund, and you had a refund policy, you're stooping to the buyer's level. And... you're acting like you don't make many sales.

    Make more sales. That's the best antidote to issuing refunds.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      This thread was bumped when the person who began the thread posted today telling HOW THIS PROBLEM WAS SOLVED.

      The seller won the dispute and prevented a chargeback!

      He bumped the thread to add that good information - so why are people still offering advice on what he should do?
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        This thread was bumped when the person who began the thread posted today telling HOW THIS PROBLEM WAS SOLVED.

        The seller won the dispute and prevented a chargeback!

        He bumped the thread to add that good information - so why are people still offering advice on what he should do?
        Why do you think they are posting? Same thing has been repeated so many times now. Ridiculous.

        That and the fact that many don't read the entire thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        This thread was bumped when the person who began the thread posted today telling HOW THIS PROBLEM WAS SOLVED.

        The seller won the dispute and prevented a chargeback!

        He bumped the thread to add that good information - so why are people still offering advice on what he should do?
        Actually a chargeback was filed and he won it.

        As for the people that keep giving (bad) advice - they didn't read the thread. Just trying to up post counts or get their signature seen.
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        • Profile picture of the author Highway55
          Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

          As for the people that keep giving (bad) advice - they didn't read the thread. Just trying to up post counts or get their signature seen.
          Yes, Tim. The thread was dead for 5 days - until you added this nice little nugget, and another post count for yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Imfactsandsecrets
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Makabongwe Maseko View Post

    Hi Warriors,

    I just woke up this morning to find a charge back in my Paypal account from a customer who lost a dispute he opened with Paypal two weeks back claiming they didn't receive the item. And again money was withheld in my account for the charge back.

    I mean how is it possible that someone opens a dispute and loses it and Paypal allows a charge back to come through?

    Can't Paypal let the bank know that a dispute was settled within Paypal for the transaction?

    Anyway I hope I win the charge back as well. I provided Paypal with the same proof as the dispute and reminded them about the dispute the customer had opened.

    Some customers are just not heaven sent.
    You know what - there will always be unsatisfied customers no matter what you do (AKA tire kickers). Now, winning a paypla dispute is something and winning a chargeback is something else. Almost always the credit card companies want their customers to be happy and will look for a refund and paypal won't be able to help you because they wouldn't intervene with the workings of card companies. So, I guess you should refund and move on.

    Paypal is great system, but there are drawbacks too and you'll have to learn to live with them.
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