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Why are programmers hired these days?

by dgmufasa
37 replies
Hi all,

It seems like with all of the templates out there, it is pretty easy for someone to set up a website. Given that is the case, does anyone really hire designers / programmers anymore?

I mean, I know some tasks are needed - but - my thoughts are that it would be so easy to customize a WP theme that it probably isn't worth the time doing it (i.e. low money).

Is web building more just theme customization nowadays - or - are sites still built from scratch?

TIA
#days #hired #programmers
  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    If you are making $100 an hour, every hour you spend customizing a WP theme is worth more than the time of someone who's making $10 a day. Think ROI and you'll understand the answer to your question.
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    • Profile picture of the author dgmufasa
      Thanks for the response. From what you are saying, there are a lot of people who don't know how to work with Wordpress or even know how to set up a site ... incredible...

      Also, how could one get on the inroad of having $100 per hour 8 hrs. a day (a regular working day). Is such a situation realistic? Especially since themes go from $50 - $75, it seems like 1 hour would be spent just paying for the theme itself.
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      • Profile picture of the author stoltingmediagroup
        Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post

        From what you are saying, there are a lot of people who don't know how to work with Wordpress or even know how to set up a site ... incredible...
        Why is that so incredible? Did you come out of your mom knowing how to do that stuff? Or did you have to learn it as well?

        It was only a few years ago that the average person did not even know how to upload a photo to the web. It's only because of social media etc that this has become somewhat of a standard activity for the general crowd now.
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        • Profile picture of the author dgmufasa
          Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

          Why is that so incredible? Did you come out of your mom knowing how to do that stuff? Or did you have to learn it as well?
          OK, you have a point I did not come out of my mom knowing how to set up Wordpress. I even got ripped off a couple of times because I did not know what they were doing - that was the reason why I learned it myself :|
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      • Profile picture of the author LastWarrior
        Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post


        ...there are a lot of people who don't know how to work with Wordpress or even know how to set up a site ... incredible...
        A bit naive to think such things... that there are people out there who don't know that. You at one time didn't even know how to wipe... well, let's just say, there was a time you didn't know about WP either. LOL!

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  • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
    It's not incredible at all. I haven't got a clue how to set up wordpress.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    It depends what your intentions are really.

    If you're just a small business / entrepreneur - in many cases no programmers are needed.

    But...

    If you want to develop something innovative, efficient, fast, and high performing... Often times a developer is very helpful.

    That being said and to be fair & balanced; if you're creative you can get by with minimal tech. (I'm sure you can find plenty of examples of success on either side).

    (I bet if we all brainstorm, we can think of some very successful entrepreneurs with absolutely zero tech).



    Just my $.02
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    U are assuming everyone uses Wordpress. Bad assumption. Not everyone uses WP or templates.
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post

    Is web building more just theme customization nowadays - or - are sites still built from scratch?
    Don't let the rise of WP sites fool you. WP has never taken away from the existing development industry that builds from scratch (and is much larger than the WP community).

    WP expanded greatly upon the non-techie segment that was previously limited to boom-era options such as MS FrontPage and Geocities. It was a nice step forward, but the templates and plugins available are still behind the hand coders because it is those people who must port the concepts over to WP.

    Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post

    there are a lot of people who don't know how to work with Wordpress or even know how to set up a site ... incredible...
    And that guy you pay to change your oil is probably shocked that you can't do it yourself. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post

    Hi all,

    It seems like with all of the templates out there, it is pretty easy for someone to set up a website. Given that is the case, does anyone really hire designers / programmers anymore?

    I mean, I know some tasks are needed - but - my thoughts are that it would be so easy to customize a WP theme that it probably isn't worth the time doing it (i.e. low money).

    Is web building more just theme customization nowadays - or - are sites still built from scratch?

    TIA
    I'd say that they probably have less and less work, but for authorative sites and other big projects, I'd say they often end up being better if it's customized opposed to using free software and templates
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
    Well only about 19% of sites on the web even use Wordpress. That leaves 81% that don't.

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  • Profile picture of the author pinakin
    Themes are just created with generic purpose, not made to suit your need. How will you do a customization without a programmers? How will you optimize your site speed without programmers? How will you set up something which keeps you different from mass ?
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  • Profile picture of the author mediamarket
    A decent customization for a medium size site is going to run you a few grand.
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    • Profile picture of the author pknerd
      World can't getrid of programmers no matter how much automation is implemented

      Regards,

      A Programmer.
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  • Profile picture of the author brettb
    Believe it or not there are actually websites out there that don't use Wordpress. And for many of them, you'll need programmers.

    I'm currently a programmer looking for a job, and the market is very healthy right now. Pretty much everyone is doing web or mobile development these days, and companies are busy putting their entire businesses and back end systems on the web/company intranet.
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    • Profile picture of the author christophercuna
      Originally Posted by brettb View Post

      Believe it or not there are actually websites out there that don't use Wordpress. And for many of them, you'll need programmers.

      I'm currently a programmer looking for a job, and the market is very healthy right now. Pretty much everyone is doing web or mobile development these days, and companies are busy putting their entire businesses and back end systems on the web/company intranet.
      I'm an aspiring programmer (learning right now) and I think that's some inspiring info! Anyways, I'm surprised the OP asked such a question. There are tons of reasons why programmers are hired these days. In regards to web developers, I run my site on WordPress and a paid theme. I consider my site ugly and although I'm not looking for any programmers right now (too busy learning programming myself and dealing with clients).

      There are way too many stuff to deal with when creating a beautifully structured site. I remember this post from QuickSprout, that the owner describes how much he spends in a month. He spent a lot on his site and developing his app (which he currently sells)

      If you have a creative programmer or maybe a capable programmer and a designer to manage your site. I think the results would be pretty awesome.
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    • Profile picture of the author dgmufasa
      I was looking at it from a Wordpress point of view. I saw one could buy a template for no more than $75 and not pay to much have it installed or install it themselves (I even saw someone doing it for $5 on Fiverr).

      Originally Posted by brettb View Post

      Believe it or not there are actually websites out there that don't use Wordpress. And for many of them, you'll need programmers.

      I'm currently a programmer looking for a job, and the market is very healthy right now. Pretty much everyone is doing web or mobile development these days, and companies are busy putting their entire businesses and back end systems on the web/company intranet.
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post

        I was looking at it from a Wordpress point of view. I saw one could buy a template for no more than $75 and not pay to much have it installed or install it themselves (I even saw someone doing it for $5 on Fiverr).
        Like I said....very shortsighted view. A vast majority of WP users are amateurs. Most real businesses have no use for WP or templates. As an exercise, go see what the top 50 websites are by Alexa ranking. How many use WP? Now check the top 100, 1000, etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author dgmufasa
          Most of those sites are old as black pepper. Old as in they came online back when the net was somewhat new. They are not responsive, archaic-looking and even the most basic of templates looks better than what they (i.e. those who rank high on Alexa) have now. Since they are established, they obviously don't care. If anything, it just dates them. How many customers leave because of an antique-looking website?
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          • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
            Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post

            How many customers leave because of an antique-looking website?
            They are the top-visited websites for a reason; so far more are sticking around than are "leaving". Besides, you are missing the point. The point (and question I asked) was "How many use WordPress?".

            You can even expand the search to the top 1000 sites and most will not be WP-based. What this demonstrates is that while WP is "big" among the large group of amateurs on this forum, it is but a drop in the bucket among "real" businesses, resulting in the need for programmers (which are also needed for reasons beyond websites, by the way).

            TBH, folks, the term isn't even being used right. "Programmers" program. "Web developers" develop websites. They are two different careers and require different skillsets with some overlap.
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            • Profile picture of the author IMMer1975
              Well you're not completely wrong but you're using programmer in a very narrow sense. No, you don't need a programmer to setup your average website. There are great CMS'es (content management systems) like Wordpress and fantastic templates and themes.

              That's not the issue, and a top programmer wouldn't be working on the "look and feel" of a site anyway, that's a graphic designer or web/html guy. Where you need the actual programmer is when you want to actually build a site with unique functionality - not often the case in IM. Let's say you were one of the people who first thought up Pinterest, or Facebook, or Google or...heck...even the forum software this board runs on..that's what programmers do. It doesn't even need to be that grandiose. I'm busy developing a review site that has to automatically manage reviewers and publishers and the payment system between them. That requires development (ie. a programmer).
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            • Profile picture of the author dgmufasa
              Thanks for your response

              Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

              TBH, folks, the term isn't even being used right. "Programmers" program. "Web developers" develop websites. They are two different careers and require different skillsets with some overlap.
              Would it surprise you to find out that I am also a programmer but on the server side - not with Internet stuff. I was more involved ERP/databases (like Oracle, Unix admin, SOAP Servers) and the like. TBH programming front end was a challenge for me as I grew up on the server side. I got ripped off a couple of times hiring people to develop front-end stuff because I did not know the lingo or lay of the land.

              I think WP has the advantage in that I don't have to develop auxiliary stuff from scratch (like invoicing packages, sliders, etc.). You can just focus on the thing that you want to bring to the world. I wish I knew about it years ago ... My only complaint is that it can get bloated. I love coding (and am doing it on WP now) but after a while, you get tired of having to learn every new thing under the sun unless it is something related to what you have learned in the past.
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  • Profile picture of the author carlo_sim
    Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post

    Hi all,

    It seems like with all of the templates out there, it is pretty easy for someone to set up a website. Given that is the case, does anyone really hire designers / programmers anymore?

    I mean, I know some tasks are needed - but - my thoughts are that it would be so easy to customize a WP theme that it probably isn't worth the time doing it (i.e. low money).

    Is web building more just theme customization nowadays - or - are sites still built from scratch?

    TIA
    Even if you buy a wordpress template you still need to customize it to suit your needs. This requires a bit of knowledge in programming (css, html, etc).

    The common misconception is that it's easy to customize a ready built wp template, but in reality it's not.

    If you want to change the design of the template --> you need a designer
    if you need to change parts of the template ---> you need a programmer

    Even if there are plugins that will help you to get certain features for your site, you still need to edit the plugin based on your needs. ---> you need a programmer to do this again

    If you know basic html, css then you can easily do it but it would take time, so in reality it's not really free.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Elisson
    From what I've seen, programmers are now more in demand than ever.

    The fact that so many people have in fact used things like WordPress and themes to get online businesses running means that there are a lot of not-very-technical people working in a technical space.

    So as soon as their business grows and they want some new functionality that WordPress can't do - that's when they go to find a programmer.

    So for developers that want to do consulting, there's more work than ever.
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    I spent $500 to have a Facebook software application built. Never did release it officially but did bundle it into one of my $247 mastermind immersion products.

    Software can automate or scale things to make folks' lives easier. For example, recently a software released that cleans up aweber lists via 1 click. Now, this is an action aweber does NOT offer - so it makes life 'way easier if you have multiple lists.

    That's an example of a useful program.

    The challenges you'll have are that platforms update, necessitating you to contact the developer if the software suddenly 'breaks'. This is one reason why unless I write it... I'm not going to sell software.

    Hope that helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author artflair
    I love to learn about each and every part of my online business and I'd love to do everything myself... But I just value my time too much!
    Just yesterday, I tried to add a piece of simple code to one of my website that would redirect the visitor from a page after 4 seconds after visiting it - and I spent 6 hours trying!
    Finally I bought a Fiverr gig and they guy did it in less than 20min!
    Sometimes it really compensates - I'll never bother with coding my sites again
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  • Profile picture of the author drem
    When you need a custom solution that isn't bogged down by all of the extra features WP offers, you will need a programmer. I fully agree that installing a template is easy, but if a business wants something truly unique, it is better to have it custom made.

    I have programmed a plethora of sites that simply needed more functionality than any of the CMS options offer. It is often better to build something from the ground up than to hack away at a CMS that bogs down a server.
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  • Profile picture of the author Samuel Adams
    A good programmer can tell you what type of site you need and help you achieve your vision for your site, rather than simply pushing a few keys and clicking the mouse button to install your WP site. Their job is a lot more detailed than uploading software. If you want it done right, you hire a programmer to do the job, rather than trying to specialize in a field you know nothing about.
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  • Profile picture of the author jessicah
    Not everybody knows WP, of course they are needed, especially in big projects. They have skills you don't just learn at home, or at least not as easy as you think it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    Go to a site such as shopbop.com, asos.com, revolveclothing.com.

    None of them are done by Wordpress. And these are some awesome looking sites. At my work we have about 10 software engineers working on our site on a daily basis.

    It gets tricky later on once you start implementing 3rd parties, tracking codes, making sure embedded CSS doesn't take a lot of space, canonical tags to href lang etc. etc.

    Then you got tons of requests from graphics department and onward. Software engineers + programmers are definitely needed for corporate level jobs / high end businesses and not just for simple websites that a lot of us here need.
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    • Profile picture of the author dgmufasa
      Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

      Go to a site such as shopbop.com, asos.com, revolveclothing.com.

      None of them are done by Wordpress. And these are some awesome looking sites. At my work we have about 10 software engineers working on our site on a daily basis.

      It gets tricky later on once you start implementing 3rd parties, tracking codes, making sure embedded CSS doesn't take a lot of space, canonical tags to href lang etc. etc.

      Then you got tons of requests from graphics department and onward. Software engineers + programmers are definitely needed for corporate level jobs / high end businesses and not just for simple websites that a lot of us here need.
      I looked at revolvedclothing.com. I saw a theme that looked a lot like it here Why go through the programming issues when you can download and install?
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy The Copywriter
    Cause they want something unique that's not the same as the last 100 sites the viewer has visited?

    Just a thought...
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonvthomas
    Programmers are a must if you need custom programs built. afterall all websites are nnot on word[press. on regular website you need a programmer, while on wordpress there might be a plugin for that "created by a programmer"

    so basically u need one when the time comes.

    even for a wordpress site, not all are familiar with the possibilities of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    Originally Posted by dgmufasa View Post

    Hi all,

    It seems like with all of the templates out there, it is pretty easy for someone to set up a website. Given that is the case, does anyone really hire designers / programmers anymore?

    I mean, I know some tasks are needed - but - my thoughts are that it would be so easy to customize a WP theme that it probably isn't worth the time doing it (i.e. low money).

    Is web building more just theme customization nowadays - or - are sites still built from scratch?

    TIA
    Honestly the larger sites, with custom functionality are all one offs. Fiverr, Ebay, Yahoo, Facebook, LinkedIn, Google, Twitter, and on and on .. are all one off sites. You cant build a site like that from a 'template'.

    But for those sites that use CMS systems like WordPress, Joomla, etc. Who do you think makes all those themes and plug ins?

    Developers are here to stay.
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